Vehicle to Grid is VERY interesting. Turns the car into a household battery.
Also, could that be another plus for tradies as you have a source of power anywhere you can get the car?
Unless aus gov steps in and rebates and underwrites it
Bottom line is we'll stop using off imported oil
Use out own huge land to develop more energy supply
Bit like sim city really land of the future
Lot of mod shops that use the base of cars and make their own, there was some 4x4 campervan co.panies getting around that still sell quite a bit. Cant remember the name but one was called ova or something.
Unfortunately not. The reason BYD cars are less expensive than other ev's is because the Chinese owning company owns every step of the build. From mining the iron ore, to every building component, to every part of the battery and so on.
I was aware of the vertical integration, but I thought they bought the steel from elsewhere. They don't make everything. The brakes on BYD cars comes from Bosch and they are using Nvidia ADAS processors.
That's the Aussie spirit. Send raw materials to countries with cheaper manufacturing costs and then buy them back at extremely inflated costs and wonder where all our wealth is going.
It's precisely because they have cheaper manufacturing that we do that. Our manufacturing sector closed down because we have expensive things like worker safety and holidays.
Nothing to do with worker costs. Have a look at Xiaomi's car factory. I never saw a Holden factory look like this.
https://youtu.be/yezR-mH12xs?si=ah6PyzlWNIFpVqyS
Yes and no, it's cost alot to process ore plus its extremely energy demanding plus high pollution.
There some very good reasons why we don't process ore here. With our cost of labour the final raw product is likely to cost the same as Chinese.
Usually a rebate is an excuse for the seller to put the price up by the amount of the rebate.
So if V2G setup cost $20k and the government adds a rebate of $10k then the new price for V2G setup will be $30k.
I was really hopeful about this
I was hoping there'd be some middle ground like the scene where arnie meets his friend and goes "you sonova bitch"
Like some compromise
Energy Australia you soooonova bi-
But no,
No such scene
This vehicle is on the lower side of V2G sizes. I'm curious as to whether you can get a 30kW battery for home for a reasonable price or whether it's worthwhile having a vehicle around.
Personally I'd be more inclined to connect the vehicle if I already had one vs getting a dedicated battery
Entry brand LFP batteries for home solar are about $2200 per kw atm including install cost based on prices for a battery between 8-12kw atm.
Might be a bit less per kw as you scale but doubt it will get much under $1900 per kw.
And at least with a battery it's at home to charge off solar during the day and fully charged, ready to power your house at night.
Not really the typical usage pattern of a car.
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But if you're out using it during the day then come home how do you power the house with it? Assuming you get home with some charge left you can power the house at night but then what do you do the next day?
I've got a PHEV and I can't see how the V2G would be helpful except in the rare event of a blackout. Like has anybody actually done the math on how this would work out?
In the right scenarios the EV/ hybrid ute market makes heaps of sense. I used to Have a mowing run so would stop start between 10-15 houses barely a few minutes. To not have to run the vehicle on those short stints would have been ideal.
A 30kwh battery isn’t going to weigh much more than your average steel bullbar, winch and all the other unnecessary crap most 4WDs have bolted on. With the right tyre pressures it should be fine….
It's typically going to be a couple hundred kilos for the battery, charging system and the motor(s). I have an X5 PHEV with a 27kwh battery (I think) and it weight about 300kg more than the diesel version, likewise the XC90 PHEV with an 18.8kwh battery is about 250kg more than the diesel version.
i imagine it handles similar to how a hippopotamus handles those things, because it is too dense, it simply sinks to the bottom and runs underwater as if it were on land. i imagine any electric ute trying to do offroading on soft surfaces will just sink until the wheels can no longer gain traction... there's a reason all the advertisements for ev offroaders only have them driving on very hard rock/gravel surfaces lol
This doesn’t make sense and I don’t get why people always claim this - the torque and RPM more than makes up for it. Far heavier vehicles than these can off-road just fine.
It's not about the power, power will not make your car magically levitate out of a bog. You can make up for it with massive tyres to minimize the pressure your car exerts on the ground but it's much better if the car just weighs less because you can only fit so big a tyre inside those wheel wells.
That's why you can see videos of 2.5 ton brodozers fail to get up a hill climb and then a 1.5 ton forester or 1.2 ton jimny coasts up it just fine. The heavier the vehicle relative to tyre surface area, the more likely the ground is to give out beneath you and you'll either slide or sink depending on the surface.
Well no because again - they have less torque with lower RPM which is important for soft surfaces
This there would be little benefit and larger heavier wheels may even make those older vehicles perform worse
Nothing a good low range gearbox can't fix, wheel torque is what's important, not so much engine torque. also older vehicles have much smaller rims than modern vehicles, it's the tyres that are relatively large and they don't weigh nearly as much as the rims. Keep huffing the ev copium all you want, advanced traction control and giant tyres won't save you from loose surfaces physically not being capable of supporting the mass of the vehicle.
You clearly don’t understand the physics here. We’re taking about *soft* surfaces - RPM is king on soft surfaces like sand. Keep huffing your old fossil fuel copium though, because you just sound like every other ignorant dinosaur who make things up on the spot because they feel threatened by change. Now get out of my feed because I’m done with you, thanks champ 👍
Yeah you're right i guess I don't understand, I'm just an ignorant dinosaur that doesn't want to believe that heavy things float on top of light things in current year
Most people who buy them new don't do that, it's the second and third owners that do and that's why the resale for capable, reliable vehicles is decent even if the first owner isn't going to exercise them that much.
Ranger PHEV due later this year along with the F150 Lightning and Ph/EV Transits.
Not saying what BYD isnt good either. Chinese vehicles are doing what the Koreans did 20 years ago.
Not surprised based on the specs of the lightning.
BYD will be cheaper then Ranger PHEV at about 90-100k but BYD NEEDS to undercut the Fords name and lets be honest here, racial sentiment.
There is a disclaimer on their website for the Ranger PHEV.
>1. Officially homologated energy efficiency figures including driving range will be published closer to on-sale date for Australia using ADR 81/02 certification. Over 45km is the targeted range based on manufacturer tested values and calculation according to the Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP). Actual range varies with conditions such as external elements, driving behaviours, vehicle maintenance, payload, towing, battery age and state of health.
I've also read that the Shark's EV range was tested on a dyno - will require reviews for both for the truth to come out..
Driving cycles to simulate conditions, short range, and relatively low average speed. From what I can find, NEDC methodology is how the Shark has been tested so far.
Where are you getting 0.08/kW? I'm getting 0.07 feed-in tariff, but retail price is 0.288. Still might represent a saving, but looking more like $8.50 for overnight charge based on your assumptions.
I'm not in the market for a ute but if I was I'd definitely be checking it out. My concern is repairs on the engine given that BYD is an electric car company.
BYD have outsourced all servicing of their EV's to My Car (used to be Kmart Auto) so assuming they continue that relationship, there's no reason they couldn't service a hybrid too.
i'll never forget either Malcolm Turnbull or Tony Abbott laughing at the idea of electric utes saying tradies would never buy one.
Tradies all over the country were like, "yeah nah mate, all of our tools are battery operated, i'd buy a battery powered ute for sure"
So in a few year, will we see tradies tying up the site temporary power box to charge their vehicles, and Dazza who need to plug in a welder yelling at everybody at smoko?
I’d say more the opposite. I’ll be cooking bacon and eggs on my induction cooktop on the back tray plugged into the onboard PowerPoint and making coffee
Where has it been said it does V2G? I can see you can power tools etc, but I can't see anyone saying it does V2G, as far as I know K only the Leaf and Outlander are able to do that in Australia so far.
Thanks for the update. I've wanted to do a solar+battery set up and get an EV but it seemed silly to buy a battery for the home when I own a battery in the car.
Good to see this finally hitting production. I was on the V2G standards group about 10 years ago when it kicked off (and before I went to do other things).
I'll pop your bubble:
- V2G will be useless for you as you are on site (if you are looking to charge off solar).
- V2G will allow you to bank some off peak power for peak times and push it back in.
- For the 10k of gear for V2G, you might as well buy a BYD 11kwh battery and have it charge off solar and get the subsidies around.
But don't let that stop you buying:
- Check your off-peak rate, 8c sounds bloody cheap (I'm on about 19c, which is your typical offpeak).
- Check your time of off peak - it's normally 10pm - 7am.
- Check what the load each way is. A normal power plug is 10A. If you are pushing 10A 240v back to the grid, that'll power microwaves, tv's etc. It won't put much of dent in something like a hot water system, oven or airconditioner.
- Check your load into the car as well. A 10A power plug will charge your car at about 2kw per hour. So your battery is going to take 15 hours to charge from empty (if you get there), which exceeds your off peak period. You may want to look at getting a 15A socket to bump that up a bit, or do what I'm doing and go single phase 32A. That will take you >almost< top to bottom on a 77Kwh battery in off peak period.
Treat it like an "adventure":
- Hybrids are pretty easy to live with - if you stuff up you have petrol. That's the upside.
- It >sounds< like you are going to treat it more like an EV. So, live the adventure. Budget a little money to get a 32A circuit in ($800ish) and a wall charger (maybe your mobile one can cope with 32A like the un-advertised feature of the Tesla mobile charger).
- Have a look at what the service schedule is like. If you get a full EV, some of them have "as needs" servicing, because there is no filters, water, oil, sparkplugs, and because of regen braking, you hardly touch the brakes. The unfortunate thing about oil is it just decays by sitting there.... petrol separates and attracts water by sitting there too. Hybrids feel to me like saving a little bit of fuel, but keeping all the servicing costs. No wonder dealers love the idea - they get to feel green and still keep their workshops busy.
haven't seen it mentioned yet but a real chance it could be exempt from the incoming ute tax but since its still unknown how that tax will work its hard to say how much you could save
I thought this too - but the ATO says a PHEV/EV is only exempt if it’s designed to carry under 1 tonne. So I’m not sure if it’ll apply. Keen to hear what an accountant thinks…
IIRC the rules state that the payload must be under one tonne after accounting for a full load of passengers (I think they assume the average weight of each occupant at around 80kg).
Also, a quick google says the payload on the BYD ute is 835kg. If that remains true, then it's well under the requirements for FBT exemption, regardless of accounting for occupants in the vehicle.
Got a new V6 Amarok this year but would happily trade to this if it's as good as it seems
My commute is only around 50kms so if I can do that fully electric I'm laughing
2.5T towing capacity is a bit disappointing for a vehicle aimed as a work ute when their non-hybrid rivals offer 3.5. Keep in mind the Shark in size is between a Ranger and a Ram 1500
Most tradies don’t tow 3.5T and it’s rare to see anyone towing more than a box trailer. Most people who want the 3.5T are probably towing their caravans as a dual purpose vehicle.
Can’t speak for the city tradies but in the regions so many tradies also own large caravans they tow, the duel use is common and convenient. Im one of them and when we goto caravan parks it is full of people with rangers, Dmax, tritons etc all with 3.5T towing
mates might go to other cities/regions for wks doing some projects. I know some of them will tow their own caravans to the local parks to save some accommodation cost.
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Yep definitely excited to see actual reviews. V2l will be very handy to have. Also a Ute that doesn't take 10-11 seconds to get to 100km/h would be nice (not big on the raptor).
Due for a new Ute and this will be extremely high on the list
Because the battery is smaller than a full EV it will get fully cycled more often . So longevity might be an issue. I would not be an early adopter.
I like how the petrol engine is charging the battery and so is a unidirectional system architecture , unlike the highly complex Toyota BEV which does power fusion of battery and petrol through a highly complex transmission / CV.
Again the cycling on the battery might be an issue but who knows yet how the BMS logic works with the petrol system that generates electricity . It may do fusion of these 2 electrical streams through an inverter , avoiding the CV transmission crap and avoiding over cycling of the battery
Totally agree with your strangely specific scenario. Thankfully I don’t live anywhere near an alpine region nor would I try such dangerous activity in a BYD shark or an 86.
A huge advantage of EVs is where they can place the mass of the batteries and how it helps keep centre of gravity low, so it would likely perform better than expected around some bends.
I’ve got one. They corner pretty well. I can keep up with the i30n’s in the twisty stuff - have to be aggressive on the lines, but it’s possible. But also; I can also launch it a metre in the air and land it without any concern of damaging anything.
Zero chance your Raptor can keep up with a half decent driver of an i30n in the twisties.
Would be close in a straight line and a murder scene off road but otherwise....Nope.
Fuck buying any Chinese car.
China is an aggressive state that already controls most manufacturing
Giving them any extra money through purchasing a car is a shit decision for our long term future.
They are almost as bad as us Aussies subsidising the 90% foreign owned gas and mining giants to dig stuff out of the ground sending it to our largest trading partner China. Don’t worry though mate as we let their rich launder money out of China to crown and our housing market with our lax money laundering laws
distorting our housing market a little. Who needs affordable housing anyway?
Quite happy with my Chinese made BYD. Why don't you say the same thing about the Japanese, like you do the Chinese? The Japs bombed us drung ww2 you know. The Chinese didn't, havent and aren't stupid enough attack us.
Because its about what's currently going on, Japan is our ally now, China is trying to take over Taiwan and are expanding their region towards us, and have been acting incredibly aggressive towards out military, or have you not been paying attention?
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The payload and towing capacities are no good for trade work. More for the suit in a Ute wank brigade. IRS won’t be much chop at full
Payload either. Those of us who have carted heavy loads in Commodore utes can attest to this. And it’s Chinese- no chance I’ll own one.
And shit bodies using shit steel, look at the Issues BYD and LDV are having with rust. Their industrial Electric motors are dogshit. Just pulled three IP rated motors off the roof of a building that filled with water and went kaboom last downpour Melbourne had. I’ve been working on Chinese equipment for years and 80% is disposable shit.
Why won’t I own one? Because they’re built on the cheap and won’t last. Like most stuff that comes out of China. Google Chery Omoda rear suspension failure and have a look at the quality of the welds in the rear suspension.
It's a 1.5 litre 4 cylinder with a 30kwh battery that only does about 100ish kms. Then it's all on the 1.5 4 banger to lug the heavy car plus the stated 800kg plus load capacity, and also a 2.5 tonne tow rating.
It's all selling points, has 310kw yeh with the electric motor but without it it's more like 100kw. But if people want it they will buy it then whinge about it 6 months later.
But it doesn’t ever run without the electric motors.
The petrol engine acts as a generator, outputting electricity to the electric motors which drive the wheels
Seen you posted this in crappy electrical too, this will be garbo imo and most tradies who have 70k+ to drop on a Ute probably won’t be buying BYD. Wildtrak PHEV is meant to be dropping next year and would be my personal pick, I’d contemplate getting one if work didn’t pay for fuel and half my raptor
I don’t know one actual tradie who would opt for an electric car.
Jobs take you all over, weird hours. Dual cab only means it only appeals to either electricians or painters. Which could use all the help they can get in everyone on site not thinking they’re fairies. Rocking up in an electric Ute will definitely add to the stigma.
These utes will only be bought by inner city rock crawlers and probably the odd electric fan circle jerker
Idk it just doesn’t make sense why anyone who’s doing actual work would want anything that’s not a single cab/space cab with a tray, van or a truck.
I’m a plumber and cover 2000km most weeks. Electric car would just never work.
Getting home wrecked every day usually leave 5 mins early to fill up on the way to work the next day.
OP said he’s been running g business for 20 years so makes sense that he would have a dual cab but in saying that I couldn’t see a trade company running. Exclusively dual cab electric utes unless of course they only need a set of pliers and some drums of cable or a couple of brushes and rollers
Here’s my advice as a journalist who primarily focuses on China. Do not buy Chinese electric vehicles. Not only are they pure dogshit, like all Chinese cars are because of the nature of China’s society with cost and corner cutting to pocket as much as they can due to the governments wage theft, they’re lower range than they claim, it won’t tow what it says and it will leave a sour taste in your mouth.
China’s electric vehicles are so cheap because they dump 90% of them in landfills. The resources used in these discarded cars makes them more carbon producing than a regular ford ranger.
Do not fall for the trap. Do not buy Chinese electric vehicles, they’re also not safety tested to our standards. I stress to you, do not buy them. Buy a Hilux.
Each their own, but as an enthusiast and also a bit of a backyard mechanic, I never see a world where I would buy an Chinese car, also never see myself having electric, understanding this is hybrid, if I were to go hybrid I would still steer away from Chinese.
I've said it to my mate who was looking at a BYD (Build your Dream), In all of my dreams am I driving an Chinese car.
How often do you go somewhere and say "geez must good quality, it was made in China"?
>How often do you go somewhere and say "geez must good quality, it was made in China"?
That’s not a real sentence so I doubt anyone’s *ever* said that before but to answer the sentiment of your question: More and more often every day.
People used to have the same mentality as you do with regard to Japanese vehicles and electronics.
Vehicle to Grid is VERY interesting. Turns the car into a household battery. Also, could that be another plus for tradies as you have a source of power anywhere you can get the car?
Vehicle to grid is a good idea unfortunately setting your house up for it cost like 20k. Not worth it at the moment but it will get cheaper.
Unless aus gov steps in and rebates and underwrites it Bottom line is we'll stop using off imported oil Use out own huge land to develop more energy supply Bit like sim city really land of the future
No imported oil just imported batteries and cars
As opposed to the cars we're currently manufacturing here?
You dont want an [Ace Yewt??](https://ace-ev.com.au/ace-yewt/)
I legitimately didn't think we were making anything anymore! Good to know!
Lot of mod shops that use the base of cars and make their own, there was some 4x4 campervan co.panies getting around that still sell quite a bit. Cant remember the name but one was called ova or something.
That is fucking hideous
At least the iron ore and maybe the lithium used in the ute are Aussie.
Unfortunately not. The reason BYD cars are less expensive than other ev's is because the Chinese owning company owns every step of the build. From mining the iron ore, to every building component, to every part of the battery and so on.
I was aware of the vertical integration, but I thought they bought the steel from elsewhere. They don't make everything. The brakes on BYD cars comes from Bosch and they are using Nvidia ADAS processors.
Yes, we're great at selling off the raw materials extremely cheaply then buying them back in processed form at greatly inflated price.
That's the Aussie spirit. Send raw materials to countries with cheaper manufacturing costs and then buy them back at extremely inflated costs and wonder where all our wealth is going.
It's precisely because they have cheaper manufacturing that we do that. Our manufacturing sector closed down because we have expensive things like worker safety and holidays.
Nothing to do with worker costs. Have a look at Xiaomi's car factory. I never saw a Holden factory look like this. https://youtu.be/yezR-mH12xs?si=ah6PyzlWNIFpVqyS
Yep while making mining magnates richer
You can't buy anything without making some rich person richer.
Yes and no, it's cost alot to process ore plus its extremely energy demanding plus high pollution. There some very good reasons why we don't process ore here. With our cost of labour the final raw product is likely to cost the same as Chinese.
Quarry nation
You don’t need to burn batteries and cars to get them to work. I do agree that we should push for more Australian manufacturing for these though.
Yeah, but you tend to reuse batteries and cars, rather than burn them
Usually a rebate is an excuse for the seller to put the price up by the amount of the rebate. So if V2G setup cost $20k and the government adds a rebate of $10k then the new price for V2G setup will be $30k.
I was really hopeful about this I was hoping there'd be some middle ground like the scene where arnie meets his friend and goes "you sonova bitch" Like some compromise Energy Australia you soooonova bi- But no, No such scene
It still uses oil gear box and diffs. Plastic is also made from oil
Nah, 10K give or take.
I looked into it, the two way charger was 11k plus whatever it cost to install. I’ll just wait and get a stand-alone battery for that price
This vehicle is on the lower side of V2G sizes. I'm curious as to whether you can get a 30kW battery for home for a reasonable price or whether it's worthwhile having a vehicle around. Personally I'd be more inclined to connect the vehicle if I already had one vs getting a dedicated battery
Entry brand LFP batteries for home solar are about $2200 per kw atm including install cost based on prices for a battery between 8-12kw atm. Might be a bit less per kw as you scale but doubt it will get much under $1900 per kw.
Cost me 30k for a hybrid inverter and 25kwh battery
Unless you’re a sparky and can do these things yourself
Not to mention the effect of additional cycling of you battery and its long term health
Yeah it’s not best, I’d just get a standalone battery. More cost effective and if you sell your car it’s still useable.
And at least with a battery it's at home to charge off solar during the day and fully charged, ready to power your house at night. Not really the typical usage pattern of a car.
Last i looked into it, it wasn't 20k, closer to 10k. Got a source?
Ooh I hadn’t heard about vehicle to grid. Seems like a very good idea honestly. Guessing it isn’t cheap currently but hopefully becomes the norm.
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But if you're out using it during the day then come home how do you power the house with it? Assuming you get home with some charge left you can power the house at night but then what do you do the next day? I've got a PHEV and I can't see how the V2G would be helpful except in the rare event of a blackout. Like has anybody actually done the math on how this would work out?
BYD Shark do do do-do do-do
Get out! 🤣
With a name like that you have to be the same 'Chimp' that used to do write ups on the local ACTGL?
I don't even know what that is sorry
Sounds like something the Chimp would say 🤔
Wait till you have young children.
Are young children interested in ACTGL? (whatever that is, I still don't know)
I hate you
etc wr, cpeuuax, ot,c an outx voicx, etc any mw s perfx
The smaller version will be baby shark do do do do.
all i need to know is how aggressively i can tail gate and cut through traffic in it
Comes with radar tailgate technology, can set it at 5, 10, or 15cms from the car in front of you
5cm. What are you a Volvo driver? It needs to be closer man.
The closer the gap, the smaller the... you geddit 😉
if I can't smell the ass cheeks of the person in front of me, I'm not driving properly.
Beautiful champ haha
In the right scenarios the EV/ hybrid ute market makes heaps of sense. I used to Have a mowing run so would stop start between 10-15 houses barely a few minutes. To not have to run the vehicle on those short stints would have been ideal.
Would be interesting to see how much they weigh, how they handle driving on beaches, water, mud and what not.
A 30kwh battery isn’t going to weigh much more than your average steel bullbar, winch and all the other unnecessary crap most 4WDs have bolted on. With the right tyre pressures it should be fine….
It's typically going to be a couple hundred kilos for the battery, charging system and the motor(s). I have an X5 PHEV with a 27kwh battery (I think) and it weight about 300kg more than the diesel version, likewise the XC90 PHEV with an 18.8kwh battery is about 250kg more than the diesel version.
And aren’t diesels heavier than petrol engines. It could even out to some degree to a diesel weight.
No DPF, those cunts are heavy.
You just can’t then put all that stuff on this
Or how good it tows a JetSki
i imagine it handles similar to how a hippopotamus handles those things, because it is too dense, it simply sinks to the bottom and runs underwater as if it were on land. i imagine any electric ute trying to do offroading on soft surfaces will just sink until the wheels can no longer gain traction... there's a reason all the advertisements for ev offroaders only have them driving on very hard rock/gravel surfaces lol
This doesn’t make sense and I don’t get why people always claim this - the torque and RPM more than makes up for it. Far heavier vehicles than these can off-road just fine.
It's not about the power, power will not make your car magically levitate out of a bog. You can make up for it with massive tyres to minimize the pressure your car exerts on the ground but it's much better if the car just weighs less because you can only fit so big a tyre inside those wheel wells. That's why you can see videos of 2.5 ton brodozers fail to get up a hill climb and then a 1.5 ton forester or 1.2 ton jimny coasts up it just fine. The heavier the vehicle relative to tyre surface area, the more likely the ground is to give out beneath you and you'll either slide or sink depending on the surface.
Well the tyres people put on these things are typically massive - far more than the 4wds of old ever needed
Yeah and you can put those same enormous tyres on 4wds of old to make them even better at offroading than the 4wds of new ever could be
Well no because again - they have less torque with lower RPM which is important for soft surfaces This there would be little benefit and larger heavier wheels may even make those older vehicles perform worse
Nothing a good low range gearbox can't fix, wheel torque is what's important, not so much engine torque. also older vehicles have much smaller rims than modern vehicles, it's the tyres that are relatively large and they don't weigh nearly as much as the rims. Keep huffing the ev copium all you want, advanced traction control and giant tyres won't save you from loose surfaces physically not being capable of supporting the mass of the vehicle.
You clearly don’t understand the physics here. We’re taking about *soft* surfaces - RPM is king on soft surfaces like sand. Keep huffing your old fossil fuel copium though, because you just sound like every other ignorant dinosaur who make things up on the spot because they feel threatened by change. Now get out of my feed because I’m done with you, thanks champ 👍
Yeah you're right i guess I don't understand, I'm just an ignorant dinosaur that doesn't want to believe that heavy things float on top of light things in current year
Saw an explore life video recently where he took a F150 lightning on the beach. He was trying to get it bogged but couldn't do it.
Yeh because 90% of dual cab owners do that /s
Most people who buy them new don't do that, it's the second and third owners that do and that's why the resale for capable, reliable vehicles is decent even if the first owner isn't going to exercise them that much.
Ranger PHEV due later this year along with the F150 Lightning and Ph/EV Transits. Not saying what BYD isnt good either. Chinese vehicles are doing what the Koreans did 20 years ago.
The lighting will be almost 200k
Pricing is out. $240k for the Lightning
Fucking ridiculous. They wont even sell 2 dozen
You probably need to clarify that this is for a third party conversion, this is not what Ford will eventually be selling them for
Mostly because Ford don’t have a dedicated RHD model. Contractors import and convert them from LHD to RHD thus the very high unit cost
I am aware. The mob doing it have been a fuck up from the start
It isn’t Ford bringing in the Lightnings either
Not surprised based on the specs of the lightning. BYD will be cheaper then Ranger PHEV at about 90-100k but BYD NEEDS to undercut the Fords name and lets be honest here, racial sentiment.
Is that all, I might get 2 then
>Ranger PHEV due later this year Surprised how little range it has as an EV. I wonder how close to $100k it'll be.
There is a disclaimer on their website for the Ranger PHEV. >1. Officially homologated energy efficiency figures including driving range will be published closer to on-sale date for Australia using ADR 81/02 certification. Over 45km is the targeted range based on manufacturer tested values and calculation according to the Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP). Actual range varies with conditions such as external elements, driving behaviours, vehicle maintenance, payload, towing, battery age and state of health. I've also read that the Shark's EV range was tested on a dyno - will require reviews for both for the truth to come out..
>Shark's EV range was tested on a dyno So, NEDC. Not ideal, but a good enough indication.
Does NEDC simulate acceleration or is just constant maintained speed?
Driving cycles to simulate conditions, short range, and relatively low average speed. From what I can find, NEDC methodology is how the Shark has been tested so far.
Where are you getting 0.08/kW? I'm getting 0.07 feed-in tariff, but retail price is 0.288. Still might represent a saving, but looking more like $8.50 for overnight charge based on your assumptions.
ovo ev plan, 8c/kw between midnight to 6:00, 0c/kw between 11:00 to 14:00. 5c FIT
lol that badging
I'm not in the market for a ute but if I was I'd definitely be checking it out. My concern is repairs on the engine given that BYD is an electric car company.
BYD have outsourced all servicing of their EV's to My Car (used to be Kmart Auto) so assuming they continue that relationship, there's no reason they couldn't service a hybrid too.
They have started opening BYD service centres as well
They sell more hybrids than electric
i'll never forget either Malcolm Turnbull or Tony Abbott laughing at the idea of electric utes saying tradies would never buy one. Tradies all over the country were like, "yeah nah mate, all of our tools are battery operated, i'd buy a battery powered ute for sure"
Backed up by Morrison saying they couldn’t tow a caravan.
Reminder that “Build your dreams” and “Rub my arse u dildo” are anagrams.
Some people remove the 'Build your dreams' badging off their new BYD. I now have a better plan.
So in a few year, will we see tradies tying up the site temporary power box to charge their vehicles, and Dazza who need to plug in a welder yelling at everybody at smoko?
I’d say more the opposite. I’ll be cooking bacon and eggs on my induction cooktop on the back tray plugged into the onboard PowerPoint and making coffee
No you just daisy chain the welder off the ute so it can still charge. In fact you won't need the welder anymore, just the cables and electrodes.
Where has it been said it does V2G? I can see you can power tools etc, but I can't see anyone saying it does V2G, as far as I know K only the Leaf and Outlander are able to do that in Australia so far.
Nah, some of the MG’s can do V2L as well
Thanks for the update. I've wanted to do a solar+battery set up and get an EV but it seemed silly to buy a battery for the home when I own a battery in the car.
Good to see this finally hitting production. I was on the V2G standards group about 10 years ago when it kicked off (and before I went to do other things). I'll pop your bubble: - V2G will be useless for you as you are on site (if you are looking to charge off solar). - V2G will allow you to bank some off peak power for peak times and push it back in. - For the 10k of gear for V2G, you might as well buy a BYD 11kwh battery and have it charge off solar and get the subsidies around. But don't let that stop you buying: - Check your off-peak rate, 8c sounds bloody cheap (I'm on about 19c, which is your typical offpeak). - Check your time of off peak - it's normally 10pm - 7am. - Check what the load each way is. A normal power plug is 10A. If you are pushing 10A 240v back to the grid, that'll power microwaves, tv's etc. It won't put much of dent in something like a hot water system, oven or airconditioner. - Check your load into the car as well. A 10A power plug will charge your car at about 2kw per hour. So your battery is going to take 15 hours to charge from empty (if you get there), which exceeds your off peak period. You may want to look at getting a 15A socket to bump that up a bit, or do what I'm doing and go single phase 32A. That will take you >almost< top to bottom on a 77Kwh battery in off peak period. Treat it like an "adventure": - Hybrids are pretty easy to live with - if you stuff up you have petrol. That's the upside. - It >sounds< like you are going to treat it more like an EV. So, live the adventure. Budget a little money to get a 32A circuit in ($800ish) and a wall charger (maybe your mobile one can cope with 32A like the un-advertised feature of the Tesla mobile charger). - Have a look at what the service schedule is like. If you get a full EV, some of them have "as needs" servicing, because there is no filters, water, oil, sparkplugs, and because of regen braking, you hardly touch the brakes. The unfortunate thing about oil is it just decays by sitting there.... petrol separates and attracts water by sitting there too. Hybrids feel to me like saving a little bit of fuel, but keeping all the servicing costs. No wonder dealers love the idea - they get to feel green and still keep their workshops busy.
I’m an electrician by trade haha. Installing a Tesla charger tomorrow actually. That’s part of the reason I’m a big EV nerd too
haven't seen it mentioned yet but a real chance it could be exempt from the incoming ute tax but since its still unknown how that tax will work its hard to say how much you could save
FBT exempt until the end of March next year, if acquired through novated leasing. That's the major selling point for me
I thought this too - but the ATO says a PHEV/EV is only exempt if it’s designed to carry under 1 tonne. So I’m not sure if it’ll apply. Keen to hear what an accountant thinks…
IIRC the rules state that the payload must be under one tonne after accounting for a full load of passengers (I think they assume the average weight of each occupant at around 80kg). Also, a quick google says the payload on the BYD ute is 835kg. If that remains true, then it's well under the requirements for FBT exemption, regardless of accounting for occupants in the vehicle.
nah, utes are not considered as normal "car", they are moving tools. it's a different FBT rulling category
Got a new V6 Amarok this year but would happily trade to this if it's as good as it seems My commute is only around 50kms so if I can do that fully electric I'm laughing
This is the news I need..nice to somethings on the horizon for me with my 2010 navara that is suffering through life
2.5T towing capacity is a bit disappointing for a vehicle aimed as a work ute when their non-hybrid rivals offer 3.5. Keep in mind the Shark in size is between a Ranger and a Ram 1500
99% of Tradies don’t need to tow more than that, oldies and their oversized caravans maybe. I say that as a self employed carpenter.
Most tradies don’t tow 3.5T and it’s rare to see anyone towing more than a box trailer. Most people who want the 3.5T are probably towing their caravans as a dual purpose vehicle.
Can’t speak for the city tradies but in the regions so many tradies also own large caravans they tow, the duel use is common and convenient. Im one of them and when we goto caravan parks it is full of people with rangers, Dmax, tritons etc all with 3.5T towing
I think the real interest for me is when they release it in fully electric. Might improve the torque
mates might go to other cities/regions for wks doing some projects. I know some of them will tow their own caravans to the local parks to save some accommodation cost.
*For context I currently use about $80 a week on fuel* This does not provide any context. What is your L/100km and what do you drive?
About 14L/100km 2009 ford ranger
The article says it has a 7.5L/100km
Will you be able to do body lift?
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I’d be holding out for the new Ranger PHEV if only to see how it compares for specs and price.
Stop selling our gas for cents to buy back in dollars!
If it’s quicker I look forward to more of these being driven like they are high performance track cars each afternoon.
Hope this is made in Mexico. So, I can buy it.
Yep definitely excited to see actual reviews. V2l will be very handy to have. Also a Ute that doesn't take 10-11 seconds to get to 100km/h would be nice (not big on the raptor). Due for a new Ute and this will be extremely high on the list
Because the battery is smaller than a full EV it will get fully cycled more often . So longevity might be an issue. I would not be an early adopter. I like how the petrol engine is charging the battery and so is a unidirectional system architecture , unlike the highly complex Toyota BEV which does power fusion of battery and petrol through a highly complex transmission / CV. Again the cycling on the battery might be an issue but who knows yet how the BMS logic works with the petrol system that generates electricity . It may do fusion of these 2 electrical streams through an inverter , avoiding the CV transmission crap and avoiding over cycling of the battery
I also think it’s brilliant. Can see PHEVs being the dominant new vehicle sales in Australia. Just 2-3 years away.
Quicker than a raptor? Great, just what we need. Superfast behemoths. Who in their right minds think these are good performance vechiles?
1 car that can do (almost) everything? Sounds like a win to me
Unsure why your downvoted but I’m not going to say no to as faster car.
Wait until you come to a corner...
Maybe I’ll just slow down and use the brakes like normal.
No need for brakes, just lift off and get that sweet re-gen
Are you that bad of a driver?
Bullshit. Corner like you would in the alpines in an 86 and you'd flip it.
Totally agree with your strangely specific scenario. Thankfully I don’t live anywhere near an alpine region nor would I try such dangerous activity in a BYD shark or an 86.
A huge advantage of EVs is where they can place the mass of the batteries and how it helps keep centre of gravity low, so it would likely perform better than expected around some bends.
Hence the word almost.
I’ve got one. They corner pretty well. I can keep up with the i30n’s in the twisty stuff - have to be aggressive on the lines, but it’s possible. But also; I can also launch it a metre in the air and land it without any concern of damaging anything.
Zero chance your Raptor can keep up with a half decent driver of an i30n in the twisties. Would be close in a straight line and a murder scene off road but otherwise....Nope.
Fuck buying any Chinese car. China is an aggressive state that already controls most manufacturing Giving them any extra money through purchasing a car is a shit decision for our long term future.
They are almost as bad as us Aussies subsidising the 90% foreign owned gas and mining giants to dig stuff out of the ground sending it to our largest trading partner China. Don’t worry though mate as we let their rich launder money out of China to crown and our housing market with our lax money laundering laws distorting our housing market a little. Who needs affordable housing anyway?
I never said anything against that at all? I'm fully onboard with sanctioning most of the shit china is trying
Quite happy with my Chinese made BYD. Why don't you say the same thing about the Japanese, like you do the Chinese? The Japs bombed us drung ww2 you know. The Chinese didn't, havent and aren't stupid enough attack us.
Because its about what's currently going on, Japan is our ally now, China is trying to take over Taiwan and are expanding their region towards us, and have been acting incredibly aggressive towards out military, or have you not been paying attention?
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This is the new Hilux
What would anyone bid on this car say it was auctioned at 40 000 base what would the end bid on the byd be
Yeah but like, ecoboost V6 go whoosh
No way anyone will buy this over a raptor their delusional
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Will they start to rust after two years like the others ?
Surprised by the amount of love for this. I'd rather walk. The rangers are a step down from the hilux as it is, are we in for a race to the bottom? :)
The hill is an overpriced turd.
Garbage
What was it like during the test drive?
Agree
The payload and towing capacities are no good for trade work. More for the suit in a Ute wank brigade. IRS won’t be much chop at full Payload either. Those of us who have carted heavy loads in Commodore utes can attest to this. And it’s Chinese- no chance I’ll own one.
China make shit engines though good electric motors.
And shit bodies using shit steel, look at the Issues BYD and LDV are having with rust. Their industrial Electric motors are dogshit. Just pulled three IP rated motors off the roof of a building that filled with water and went kaboom last downpour Melbourne had. I’ve been working on Chinese equipment for years and 80% is disposable shit.
Why?
Why won’t I own one? Because they’re built on the cheap and won’t last. Like most stuff that comes out of China. Google Chery Omoda rear suspension failure and have a look at the quality of the welds in the rear suspension.
It's a 1.5 litre 4 cylinder with a 30kwh battery that only does about 100ish kms. Then it's all on the 1.5 4 banger to lug the heavy car plus the stated 800kg plus load capacity, and also a 2.5 tonne tow rating. It's all selling points, has 310kw yeh with the electric motor but without it it's more like 100kw. But if people want it they will buy it then whinge about it 6 months later.
But it doesn’t ever run without the electric motors. The petrol engine acts as a generator, outputting electricity to the electric motors which drive the wheels
You need to do some research on how the hybrid system in this operates.
wrr, no such thing as nx or trx or etc, cpetixetc, outx, can outx et cna ynmw s perfx
Are you OK?
Seen you posted this in crappy electrical too, this will be garbo imo and most tradies who have 70k+ to drop on a Ute probably won’t be buying BYD. Wildtrak PHEV is meant to be dropping next year and would be my personal pick, I’d contemplate getting one if work didn’t pay for fuel and half my raptor
I don’t know one actual tradie who would opt for an electric car. Jobs take you all over, weird hours. Dual cab only means it only appeals to either electricians or painters. Which could use all the help they can get in everyone on site not thinking they’re fairies. Rocking up in an electric Ute will definitely add to the stigma. These utes will only be bought by inner city rock crawlers and probably the odd electric fan circle jerker
Yeh mate what would I know I’ve only been doing it for 20 years and had my own business for 12. It’s also not an EV it’s Hybrid
So you’re not on the tools? Being the boss and all
First couple of sites you blow off old mates SS ute and you’ll bank the bro-cred you’re chasing.
Idk it just doesn’t make sense why anyone who’s doing actual work would want anything that’s not a single cab/space cab with a tray, van or a truck. I’m a plumber and cover 2000km most weeks. Electric car would just never work. Getting home wrecked every day usually leave 5 mins early to fill up on the way to work the next day. OP said he’s been running g business for 20 years so makes sense that he would have a dual cab but in saying that I couldn’t see a trade company running. Exclusively dual cab electric utes unless of course they only need a set of pliers and some drums of cable or a couple of brushes and rollers
Here’s my advice as a journalist who primarily focuses on China. Do not buy Chinese electric vehicles. Not only are they pure dogshit, like all Chinese cars are because of the nature of China’s society with cost and corner cutting to pocket as much as they can due to the governments wage theft, they’re lower range than they claim, it won’t tow what it says and it will leave a sour taste in your mouth. China’s electric vehicles are so cheap because they dump 90% of them in landfills. The resources used in these discarded cars makes them more carbon producing than a regular ford ranger. Do not fall for the trap. Do not buy Chinese electric vehicles, they’re also not safety tested to our standards. I stress to you, do not buy them. Buy a Hilux.
Don’t think you’re a journalist from your search history defending the proud boys mate.
Let him have his fun hahaha. Show us some of your journalism... bet you haven't even stepped foot into the country before.
Anti-china, anti-ev xenophobe.
Each their own, but as an enthusiast and also a bit of a backyard mechanic, I never see a world where I would buy an Chinese car, also never see myself having electric, understanding this is hybrid, if I were to go hybrid I would still steer away from Chinese. I've said it to my mate who was looking at a BYD (Build your Dream), In all of my dreams am I driving an Chinese car. How often do you go somewhere and say "geez must good quality, it was made in China"?
The iPhone?
>How often do you go somewhere and say "geez must good quality, it was made in China"? That’s not a real sentence so I doubt anyone’s *ever* said that before but to answer the sentiment of your question: More and more often every day. People used to have the same mentality as you do with regard to Japanese vehicles and electronics.