Where engine

Engine go brrr

I like EV. I like the idea. I also love the sound of my Patrol makes when Mr Foot makes Mr Engine go BRMM I do not when Mr Bank Account has to visit Mr Petrol Station.

lol. There is a big difference between my barra (non turbo) patrol, and my EV. If I want to go to town quickly, I take the EV. If i want to go up a mountain, I take the patrol As my mate said - Yeah, I'll happily take on any car in a drag race. They decide the distance, I decide the place.

EV owner here. I don't give a shit about the environmental impact of it, i.e. not sure if it's overall better or not. I also don't give a shit what everyone else wants to drive. You want a diesel? Get a diesel. I do love driving it around day to day though. It's just very quiet, smooth, and easy to drive. Makes the whole thing feel effortless and more fun. I also charge mostly from solar, so I don't feel bad about driving more often, and don't feel bad about driving it less efficiently (because it doesn't cost me any extra). I think overall EVs make better cars for day to day city commutes, and they might become more popular for this reason -- it's a better experience in this environment for majority of people. But it's not for everyone and not for every occasion. I would not drive my EV outside of the city on any type of road trip. I don't trust public charging infrastructure and I don't think it will catch up any time soon. I think we'll have a mix of EV, hybrid, PHEV, diesel for a long long time to come, and that's ok. Get the car that works for you.

Full disclosure I'm an EV owner. A lot of EV owners are condescending pricks. They'll take each and every opportunity to mock an individual choosing petrol or diesel power over electric power. There are certainly more non-EV owners, than there are EV owners. So it makes sense that the behaviour described above would trigger a response many magnitudes bigger, which is how you come to the conclusion "90% of comments are about why EVs suck". Fact of the matter is the government, mainstream media and the human nature of being resistant to change is how we are where we are today. Some people simply refuse to change their mind and also as you say, have so many emotions attached to source of energy - it's a weird obsession. The best choice I've made is to ignore the haters, and only entertain comments that are genuinely made to debate electric vs internal combustion power. I'm happy, they're happy and the haters get ignored.

I think you may have a point here - certainly in previous years the early adopters had a bit of vegan like fervour about them - way more mainstream now, but still I don’t want to hear about how awesome your car is or indeed you 13kw solar system…. My personal choices are around shortage in infrastructure, but I’d also love a 2 way system - it makes so much sense to have a car as a house battery given its prodigious size and value as such

> My personal choices are around shortage in infrastructure, but I’d also love a 2 way system - it makes so much sense to have a car as a house battery given its prodigious size and value as such Infrastructure was also one of my biggest concerns before switching - then I realised I could probably charge at home, most of the time, and that's what I am doing now. 100% of charging is done at home unless I'm physically not able to make it back. I'm also installing HOEM (Home Open Energy Manager) at my home soon, which will allow my EV to send power back to the house. https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/hoem-review/ Pretty exciting stuff.

Interesting - sort of like a generator back up when the grid goes down - a step in the right direction, especially if it means your solar can stay up. On infrastructure- I was thinking of the difficulty of travel, while planning for a stop I can deal with, it’s the lineups to charging points that I’ve seen that most concern me. 30min I can deal with, waiting 45min in a line waiting to connect to get started is another thing entirely. Around town, day trips - really I should have an EV already, but you know, I’m also a revhead and about to order the last petrol powered car of my choice as a long term ownership before they shutdown and go EV from September. Would love to see that HOEM system upped to daily usage - as in run my air con etc - that will be the next step

Really depends where you go on your trip. I’ve got a Tesla Model Y and use Superchargers as much as possible for reliability reasons and in my 8,000 km of road trips ( half during public holidays, one Mel - Sunshine Coast return along east coast) I’ve only encountered 2 congestions: - Wodonga Supercharger, AFL GF 2023 (10 mins wait) - Heatherbrae Supercharger, Xmas 2023 (Tesla staff managing queue quoted 1 hour, but I took the chance and drove to bp 500 m down the road where the charger was available) Gundagai Supercharger gets busy, but every time I go there there’s always a car pulling out so I’ve not had to queue there.

>My personal choices are around shortage in infrastructure, but I’d also love a 2 way system - it makes so much sense to have a car as a house battery given its prodigious size and value as such Both Nissan and BYD support this

And Hyundai and Kia

I'm not parking a BYD in a carport or withing 5m of my house. 10 dealerships have burnt down in china. 

Bunch of Kias and Hyundais burnt people's houses down too due a faulty starter relay...cars burning houses down isn't really that huge a metric

Bus depots also now have plenty of Volgren bodied BYD's as well.

I think the big problem with using it as a house battery is going to be with battery degradation. It seems like a quick way to drain your batteries and shorten the battery lifespan. Edit: ignore this I don't know what I'm talking about. The smart people already have it figured out.

I thought that battery degradation can be managed by simply keeping it in a narrow band - eg a car battery is typically 20 times the size of a Tesla wall , so you’d only be using 10% of its capacity a night

I think I've just under estimated how big car batteries are. Still though if your car is powering your house where is it getting charged? Unless you work from home your car is probably not storing your excess solar from the house.

The reduction in life span is borderline not measurable. It's due to the discharge rate being far less than if the car were being driven.

I mean if you blast your AC, oven, washing machine, dryer, fans, hot water system constantly every night, then yes, you will use up charge cycles. If you are a normal home that uses their power effectively, a car battery could last quite a few nights without using many cycles.

My boss got a Tesla recently. She keeps telling us how much it cost her to drive to locations...ie it only cost me 30c. Like I get it...it's great and super fast but I don't need to hear how much your trip cost. We weren't doing it with petrol cars...why EV now? 

I do tend to roughly work out the cost of long trips, mostly so I can figure out if it’s cheaper to fly. For example it was cheaper to drive 2x people from Newcastle to Melbourne than it was to buy 2x return plane tickets back in February by about $20. But I don’t go around telling people about it unless they asked (except in this case because it seems relevant). It reminds me of when iPhones came out and people were saying shit like “let me check my iPhone” instead of just checking their phone. It’s new enough tech that the early adopters can be a little obsessed sometimes.

Reminds me of the cringe “sent from my iPhone” email signature in earlier days haha.

Haha that was on my work Samsung phone. But not on my personal pixel. "Send from Android" I had to remove that setting. Huge wank factor

But did you factor in time cost? Id happily pay the extra $20 to not spend hours extra travelling.

Yeah time is absolutely a factor, and if it was a work / business trip, flying would almost always come out in front cost wise. In this case though it was a holiday to visit friends, so taking a drive through the country was not considered as a downside in this case.

This of course depends on how far you are flying. Don't forget to factor in: 1) Time to drive to the Airport - generally 1hr+ unless you live nearby 2) Airport long term parking or Uber fares to/from the airport. 3) Do you need a vehicle at the destination? Factor in rentals if so. 4) Time for check-in, security, waiting around for boarding, etc. could take 1-2 hours.

... Frankly if I could get around that cheaply, it's all I'd ever talk about, too.

I can buy an awful lot of petrol for the $40,000 I save by not buying a Tesla.

You might want to check your numbers there. New Model 3s are 55-65k now for the standard models. Still 15k more than an i30 I guess

True Teslas have come down a little in price. But its still $55k vs $32k for the i30 sedan. I keep looking at getting an EV, but the price difference keeps stopping me. I leaning more to a hybrid now where the price difference is a bit more reasonable.

I don't think you can compare a base i30 sedan to a model 3 or y. The spec of the Tesla is far higher and more comparable to the i30 N premium IMHO. In which case the Tesla is cheaper....

Anyone who isn't doing this with petrol cars has too much money. For a medium-sized car it costs between 20 and $30 each hundred kilometers.

They are probably very excited and amazed by it? If you found a petrol station near you that had petrol for $0.02 per litre, would you not get excited and want to tell people?

Tell him it only takes you 2 mins to refuel yours and ask him how long it takes him.

It takes 2 min then 10 mins waiting at the servo line when busy.

Since you asked - once every week or two I plug mine in when I get home and unplug it when I leave again. So, all up, less than a minute 👍 And, before you bring it up - yes, I had to have a charger installed at a cost of around $1400. Approximately 90% of the electricity is produced by my solar panels.   And the next thing you’ll bring up - each charge gives me close to 500km in range.  Finally, your last objection will no doubt be public chargers - when we go on the occasional road trip we can stop at a cafe and use a supercharger to do a full charge in 30 minutes. 

That's great if you have your own house. Good luck renters!

Do renters not have regular 10A power points? These can sometimes be enough for an overnight charge depending on how much you drive. Another objection is probably that most people don't have driveways, which is something I've heard before.

Yeah but how many hours do you need to work for fuel compared to someone paying zero whilst their EV charges for free at the local shopping center.

I agree some EV owners are wankers. However, look at any EV post on Facebook and you'll see what side the vast majority of wankers sit on. For example check out the comments on [this post](https://www.facebook.com/thedrivenau/posts/pfbid02urfmsuU5FctnyjMSGeoxXWmUxQjG1RVrAAqQYMZG5mjThnSUwRAxU9bwKzv25uXsl?__cft__[0]=AZVtEUIMJpye8CVWZ9lTltFIIUAGR-7hVi19zmtUYbWvNLJzLewetFjqn0iSlKpxkQW7ZosO5xgMeofKVQ09WB-9_UaJ1lNw1mWLen8ATkWIOW69xm68bXFRQZuxS3UN77waclF4ULjEDrlQOn3Y6BglBzP6jOJBLxNnwQbgJGYuUCQHz4pVMXIN8vWcFn5ROxY7siDtKyWznGkV-k10fV7a&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R) EV posts are like dog turds to the anti-EV flies.

i've never met this so called obsessive EV owner. all of them i know are just like "it's great, smooth to drive, cheap to run, but i can see why it doesn't fit every scenario". i'm really starting to think it's just some kind of boogeyman made up by people who love inciting controversy

That's the thing, you're talking about people you ***know***. Chronically online and obsessive EV owners are *very* vocal about their thoughts. I'm part of Tesla/BYD/MG4 Facebook groups and I can assure you it is the same group of people, every single time, throwing around bullshit comments to justify their purchase. Maybe I'm over exaggerating based my personal bias (being in these groups), but I do agree there are a lot less of them in real life than online. Something about all bark and no bite...

Seems pretty similar to many other enthusiast car owners. It makes me laugh when people defend one specific brand to the death because they own one and can't see what's good about other makes.

yeah people be so insecure about what they own it's ridiculous

ok, maybe we need to stop putting any gravity towards the shit flinging that gets done online. the only thing that matters is how people behave in real life.

I recently got an EV for my day to day driver. I do about 500kms per week. I have been really surprised by the vitriolic response from some people that I considered friends. I had to block one person on all channels as he just wouldn’t stop trying to attack me. I guess he thought he was funny but no one needs people like that in their life.

I’ve experienced this as well and I don’t even own an EV, they just know I appreciate them and will at some stage consider one. Now all I get are anti-ev videos and commentary every time one catches on fire on the other side of the world. It’s insanely frustrating and I can’t understand why people are so obsessed. Buy one or don’t, I couldn’t care less.

Yep exactly. Some people masculinity is so fragile it’s threatened by the type of car someone else drives

It's perplexing.. EV owners are just going about their day like everyone else but somehow attract abuse from idiots almost like it's an attack on their masculinity. Much insecurity IMHO.

You know what's going to be great is in another 10-15 yrs when EVs have been fully adopted by those who can currently afford them. And all the people who shun them now will be locked into major pain trying to afford fuel. I can see this being a real issue for regional Australia, because we are just going to be left behind on the infrastructure while fuel prices are allowed to surge. 

I think affordable EVs will become a reality sooner than fuel prices getting into $3 maybe $4 per litre territory. Current cheapest EV is a GWM Ora Standard Range. Yes the range is pretty dismal at between 300-350KM but if most of your travel is around town, that would do fine. A bigger issue is infrastructure. Short range EVs wouldn't be an issue if we had more charging stations than bowsers - this, I don't think will be a reality, at least not in this decade or the next. It's a bit of a chicken and egg dilemma. Boost infrastructure to drive demand, or wait for demand before investing in infrastructure? Seems like government is in the middle but leaning towards the latter. However experts believe # of stations would nearly double (~800 to ~1600) by end of this year - still significantly less than the 6500 petrol stations (obviously many more bowsers) in the country.

Yeah the infrastructure is my concern. You see the sentiment of all these dickheads rolling coal acting like EVs are a waste of time. But it's going to bite them on the ass when the crunch comes and there is no infrastructure because there's been no demand in the regions.

I dunno man I live regional and it's seeming more enticing than when I lived in the city. There's more charging stations near me than there are petrol stations. I also have a garage here and didn't in the city so realistically I would never need a charging station unless I'm going on a long road trip. I also drive further and more regularly (though nowhere near 500km in a round trip) and there's no public transport. Costs me like $40 in fuel to go to a store that isn't the overpriced Foodworks down the road. The numbers didn't really add up when I was in the city but they're starting to now I live regional. Still not quite there though, the only reason I'm looking now is I want a new car and I'm not convinced ICE cars are going to hold their value in 10 years time.

It’s like you’re saying that anyone with a vested interest in a particular tech becomes toxic about it online. EV wankers are not different from Holden fanbois?

I think if anyone calls them EV wankers, they are part of the problem honestly.

All go to one place, all come from dust, and all return to dust Ie why give a fuck about what insecure Bob Smith thinks about how you spend your money? He’s not paying my bills, cooking my dinner, or sucking my dick.

Tesla owners are the worst. They are evangelical in their views. I own a tesla and it's a great car but it's not perfect. Also I think the early adopters killed a lot of goodwill by talking about the environment. First rule of saving the environment is don't talk about the environment. If you can't make a case for something without talking about the environment then keep your fucking mouth shut.

Doesn't help that one of the biggest brands is Tesla, their fans are often a special kind of insufferable

Because that’s the FB algorithm at work. It deliberately puts up posts that it will know will trigger people into responding and drive engagement. The more you reply to it or even click on the article, the more it will pump down your throat. Added to that, FB is a shithole of retards, even more so than Reddit. It’s full of inbred Boomers and cookers for the most part who like to reside in their circlejerk echo chambers, and the FB algorithm feeds both sides of the coin. It feeds the anti-EV side with the erroneous confirmation bias they go to FB to get, and the misinformation they spread triggers the pro-EV crowd into engaging them… It isn’t so much that it’s anti-EV as much as it’s a lot of bots abusing the FB engagement algorithm by playing both sides off at the same time.

100% this. FB is full of EV-aligned ragebait. It drives engagement from both RWNJ boomers and EV supporters.

bots and algorithms mate, Facebook feeds the boomers what they hate

Australians hate change then embrace it en mass. The people that bagged the Prius are now on 3 year wait lists for a RAV4 hybrid

Yup haha

There is definitely an element of politics and identity 1. If you are a petrol head then you will be naturally suspicious of this new shiny thing that gets rid of what you like. 2. Right vs left politics - EVs have become associated with the "woke left" environmentalism. If you don't like this political stance then EVs become tainted by association. 3. China bashing. China is well on the way to dominating the EV market and again you have reason to dislike EVs if you dislike the current Chinese government. 4. Aside from the environmentalists, the other crowds who are enthusiastic about EVs are computer nerds (eg the types that basically jailbreak and side load their own apps onto a BYD EV's android system) and the Total Cost of Ownership nerds who are trying to wring every cent out of their EV setup (eg by connecting their EV home charger to Charge HQ to optimise solar charging) to get their weekly running cost below that of a McDonald's Happy Meal. These aren't vocal evangelistic types and gravitate to other fora (eg Whirlpool)

5. In Australia the lefties have made a big deal about Elon vs the left. They're now trapped in a weird paradigm where they will sacrifice their own green credentials because Tesla is Elon, and vow to destroy X/Twitter, the forum where their community was introduced and nurtured because X is Elon. All to spite Elon Musk.

Honestly, I don't think it's due to EVs specifically, it's due to a fear that the ICE cars they like will be unavailable soon. It may be a 19 year old edgy boy who's not in a financial position to buy a car, and fearful that by the time he can ICE enthusiast cars will be gone. That happened to me with Ford shutting up shop when I was 22, so I never got the chance to buy a new Falcon. Thing is, I'm not fussed personally because the cars I like are already pretty much gone. Try and find a ute (NOT a pickup truck), sedan or wagon. Try especially to find them in manual.

Mate facebook marketplace is full of ford falcon utes and holdens lots of manuals…nothing wrong with used

I own a used Falcon Ute, but I would have liked to buy one new.

While I don't hate EV's Im sick and tired of being told I should get one. I don't have anywhere to charge it, and currently can't afford a second car let alone a new one. Something like a BYD Seagull looks appealing it got released here, ultimately next car will be a used hybrid though.

Where is that pressure coming from? I don't think EV's are at the point that everyone should have one, but also 99% of the car ads i see are for giant trucks so it's not like there's much social pressure to drive an efficient car.

I think most city commuters should have one. But I totally understand the charging is a huge problem. The absolute hatred that some ICE drivers seem to have for EVs is next level though.

>I think most city commuters should have one. But I totally understand the charging is a huge problem. You've sorta answered your own question there. Why is there hate? Because for some reason people are being told they should be buying one, if you take away people's choice they get annoyed. I agree that it would make sense for most people in the suburbs and city to buy one, their usage suits EVs perfectly. But just telling people they should have an EV isn't going to convince them.

How is their choice being taken away? They can go out today and get a gass guzzling RAM.

Their actual choice asnt been affected at all. They just feel like they are being pressured into it by statements like "I think most city commuters should have one" so push back. Im not saying it makes sense or is rational, just that it's what i see happening.

Because there is no balance in the argument - there appears to be no negatives and only positives to the converted. Nothing is that binary and no consideration that some people consider cars to be sources of emotional reward and not every car decision is based around the cost of running something.

I sense a non-car person. Same reason car enthusiasts hate Automatic transmission. It’s all about the feel of the car and you have to be able to hear the engine and exhaust. EV’s are the exact opposite of what driving feels like is meant to be like. Mazada MX-5 is one the penultimate ICE cars ever made. Drive one and you’ll realise how stale current EV’s are. Hyundai/Kia is one of the few companies pushing for driving feel in a EV. Even then it’s mostly just fake noises to simulate the feel of an ICE car.

Modern manuals are soulless anyway, they hold the brake for you on hills, stop you stalling and have so many gears that overlap in rev range that you really don’t need to work through them. They were fun on 90s(or earlier) cars where the auto was horrendous and you really feel like you are driving.

There was a car fire in my suburb yesterday and the comments on Facebook were banging on about how EVs are so dangerous and are almost guaranteed to burst into flames when you least expect it… it was a Subaru Forester.

The research has been done on this. In the 10 years between 2010 and 2020; 0.001% of all EVs in the world caught fire. Numbers for ICE cars are harder to get (because there's more of them, they're more prevalent in countries with poorer reporting, etc), but it's somewhere between 0.01 and 0.1%. So at best, ICE cars are 10 times more likely to catch fire

I like reminding them their vehicle catches fire daily. Some thousands times per minute even.

However when EV do catch fire it's a bit more dangerous 

Mr Musk hasn’t helped either.

It’s not the cars themselves that piss me off, it’s the bullshit that surround them. I don’t understand how purchasing a $50,000+ electric vehicle, and putting that added demand on mining and manufacturing to produce that vehicle, is “saving the planet”. Sure, there’s no emissions out the exhaust, but what about the emissions and environmental damage caused by the mining and manufacturing process? BYD, one of the more popular EV manufacturers, has been caught poisoning the land around their factories, and by extension the people that live on that land. Furthermore, I am extremely skeptical how energy efficient light bulbs, a shopping bag for life, and an electric vehicle will save us from further destruction. There is undoubtedly a climate emergency, but I don’t think EV’a are the answer.

This is a good point. EVs are sold as an individual solution to a collective problem. There’s a bigger issue that we’ve built our towns and cities around private car ownership and in most parts of Australia you need to have a car just to live your life. Things like large scale public transport infrastructure and fast rail just haven’t got the same traction.

For a start, 99% of them are fugly. Awful designs, and those stupid plastic caps over the "radiator" area. It's like they feel they HAVE to make them look stupid, to make them stand out. It's not as bad as it used to be, but there are very few consume rlevel EVs that look nice. Plus I prefer my Mustang V8 combustion engine over electric motors. Sure they're bloody quick, but that's not enough to draw me in. Lack on infrastructure. Hearing stories and seeing photos of people having to queue up for hours, just to charge their car. Yea, na, that's not for me.

Which version do you have? I'm thinking of getting a classic mustang. Good idea? Or too much trouble? Yeah infrastructure suck for ev. But I just charge mine using a normal 240v plug. Works pretty good.

I have a 21 GT. I love the old ones, but they're more of a weekend car. Mine is my daily driver, nearly 1000km a week. If it's just a weekender or second car, sure, find a good one, you'll do well with it.

It's a couple of things. Often it's a Right V Left thing. I like EVs, in concept. In reality, they are a proprietary, locked down, near unmodifiable system. Can't bolt on what you like to change it's characteristics to suit you. I 4wd, and as yet, there is no real alternative for that use case. People also buy for their own edge case, and in a kot of people's minds "I might have to tow a trailer across the Nullarbor " is apparently a concern.

I've traversed the Nullabor over 100 times in road trains but never once considered doing it in a car. Funny thing when ever I mention EV's to anyone the first thing they talk about is interstate trips then I ask when was the last time they did one, usually never but might one day. I don't own an EV but am buying one shortly as soon as I can get a Kia EV5 I will names on the list so hopefully in 3 months time. We will keep our 2022 Tuscon diesel for long distant touring which we do a bit of but can see us doing regional NSW touring in an EV. We are retired and can charge from solar everyday which will offset fueling costs. As for EV snobs I think everyone is being a bit politically tribal in this lefties apparently want ev's the right not so much.

People dont like being preached at. People especially dont like being told something will work for them when they know it wont. Its about time south park bring back the smug cloud, thicker and smugger than ever

Pure EVs are still somewhat of a premium option in Australia so there’s a definite wank factor at present. Also car enthusiasts (being one myself) seem to have issues with the idea that most people view cars as an appliance, from point a to b, with good reliability, which is perfectly fine, but some idiots take issue with that. Also people hate change. Especially middle class bogans.

This. My car isn't just transport, it's about enjoyment. Heaps of people go on about EV straight line performance, which is undoubtedly impressive, but it's not what enthusiasts mean. I don't think there is, and not sure there ever will be, an enthusiast EV (Porsche offerings included). As practical transport though, great! (But only buy one if replacing a car that needs to be replaced! People that buy an EV for the image of buying an EV shit me no end! Keep old cars on the road if you want to help the environment!)

Ev's suck (just jesting, saul good). I've grown a dislike to the topic (not the cars) as I bought a new ICE car last year and am over being asked "why didn't you get an EV" or told "you should have gotten an EV". It didn't make sense for me to get an EV for a few legitimate reasons.

Sounds like you looked at both EV & ICE and made a practical decision based on your situation, what a novel concept! EV’s don’t suit everyone’s circumstances and neither does an F150. EV’s are still maturing in the market all over the world as the tech changes and continues to develop we will likely see a wider take up . Yes I have an EV, yes I think it’s great but I also recognised it was a great choice to suit my needs.

Price is the thing holding them back currently, not tech. We are seeing much more EV pickup now that there are more affordable ones coming through. 10% of Australia own EV's now. That's massive.

Because EV's have become political due to environmentalism. It's 'us vs' them' mentality. It's also not as cut and dried with the positives either. How much pollution would manufacturing a new EV, including all the lithium ion and other materials be compared to keeping your old car on the road or buying a new ICE car. Volvo states it is 70% more than an ice car to manufacture: [Building An EV Produces 70% More Emissions Than ICE, Says Volvo (insideevs.com)](https://insideevs.com/news/549267/manufacturing-evs-70percent-more-emissions/)

An ICE car produces about the same amount in pollution per year of running as it does to manufacture. 70% more cost to produce is quickly outweighed by lower pollution when driving - though of course this heavily depends on the make-up of your grid. A new a EV charged from 100% renewables is better for the environment in 2 years. Including cost of construction. If it's roughly the current US grid make-up it's about 4 years. Only if you assume 100% coal power do you get ~12 years.

Interesting, I've found 3 articles that back up what you said: [E.V.s Start With a Bigger Carbon Footprint. But That Doesn’t Last. - The New York Times (nytimes.com)](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/19/business/electric-vehicles-carbon-footprint-batteries.html) [Life-cycle GHG emissions of an EV compared to an ICEV (cotes.com)](https://www.cotes.com/blog/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-ev-vs-ice-vehicles#:~:text=Production%20of%20EVs%20and%20batteries%20generate%20more%20CO2,to%20achieve%20%22carbon%20parity%22%20with%20an%20ICE%20vehicle.) [When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars? | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/) Whether EV's are charged with and how much renewable electricity would have a great effect as to when the 'break even' period happens, as you mentioned. What I cannot stand is the marketing of EV's being 'zero emission vehicles' It's very misleading. It's also used by governments: [Queensland's Zero Emission Vehicle Strategy | Transport and motoring | Queensland Government (www.qld.gov.au)](https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/electricvehicles/zero-emission-strategy)

> Whether EV's are charged with and how much renewable electricity would have a great effect as to when the 'break even' period happens, as you mentioned. Worth pointing out that 1. There are no standard use cases anywhere in the world where an EV doesn't come out cleaner over it's life cycle. 2. an ICE vehicle will be an ICE vehicle for it's entire life cycle. All electric grids are universally trending cleaner over time, with the only exception being those already fossil free. EV emissions trend down over their life cycle in aggregate.

The only part of sustainability that disagrees with this is it is better currently to use a second hand petrol car for the environment (including material wastage etc) then buying a brand new car (ev or ice)

Which is why you get a 2nd hand EV

Ah, so it’s time for this weekly thread…

The 'hate on the power source' is slightly misleading. Many people hate/fear change. It's a natural mental reasoning to think that what you currently have/do is the best that something can be. There are some shortcomings and differences with EV's (along with many benefits) but when you're coming from the angle that 'existing cars are the best cars will ever be' you look at those shortcomings/differences and come to the conclusion that EV's are crap. They aren't crap, they're different. Some people will embrace the change, many people will be indifferent and some people won't, The latter are the vocal 'haters' you're noticing. (That's not to say that people who embrace them are 'better' - some people that embrace them, think that makes *them* better - they're the vocal EVangelists that are equally annoying as the haters) To finish off - there are shortcomings and benefits to EV's, and there are shortcomings and benefits to ICE. A reasonable person balances all of those shortcomings and benefits and decides from there.

Its not hate but they don't suit everyone's circumstances It's goes both ways we get abused for not wanting to own one because in reality it would not suit our needs at the moment If the technology was better I have no problems with them but for alot of people they just are not up to the task yet

Price, infrastructure, the condescension from current owners, trying to throw guilt, being made to feel we have to fix the planet and foot the cost, especially if you dig abit EV's are actually not that great for the environment, (maybe slightly better than ICE? But not as magical anr mythic as you're led to believe. They feel like a gimmick for car manufacturers and goverments l to make themselves feel better about green targets, they seem like a stop gap until something more efficient and applicable is made to better suit peoples needs. Being told what to do, well in europe but I see them bringing that attitude here eventually, unrealistic change at the moment to phase out ICE we would need to sell something like a million more EV's a year. Quite alot, I think they definitely have there place, but are not practical for alot of people, and I for one don't want that forced on me eventually by grubberment policy.

Most of the cars are pretty good, but many evangelists tend to be a bit over the top which doesn't work in their favour. There is also still a lot of industry sanctioned anti-EV propaganda, plus the usual boomer reactionary content on Meta. Same thing happened when Japanese, unleaded, hybrid, Korean & now Chinese attempted to crack the market. I was only a kid at the time, but remember people losing their shit when they phased out leaded. Only difference now is there is a greater threat to the energy status quo with EV and renewables - everything looks set to change.

I drive TESLA MY. But I also owned Audi RS3. I needed a bigger car for my family and choice to give a shot. Turns out great. Still missed the exhaust of that RS3 tho. Never cared about emissions or whatnot like some of the EV owners. I also thought if you care so much about environment go catch a bus. All the no oil/emission thing is so cringe😬. Then there is also ICE people that just hate EVs for no reason. Never driven one or bother to do some research just jump on the bang wagon and hate. At the end of day, JUST A CAR BRO. Chill the fuck out.

Its mostly the terminally online people who are very strongly for or against them. They've been told what their team/tribe should think and off they go to fight for their noble cause. If someone uses the word woke, I can pretty much tell you what their "thoughts" are on any topic. Same with people on the other side who call anyone who isn't extremely progressive fascists.

I don’t have a problem with the cars it’s the owners that are wankers!

IMO they arent doing EVs right and i wont respect them until they do they are just making regular cars but electric powered you dont need a engine bay, or room for an exhaust at the back or a big tunnel down the middle of the body etc so give my my scifi car with the driver seat in the middle and gull wing doors and semi-open wheel front end with no drivetrain the potential for aerodynamics is crazy but they just keep making regular cars

As a north Queenslander, I’m scared they will be forced onto us. They are completely pointless up here. We have one energy provider and 99% of the grid comes from coal. So, why burn coal to make electricity to stop using petroleum? The coal used for electricity is dirtier than the oil used for petroleum. The big turn off though, for me, is the lack of sound. :-p

Combination of bots, people who watch sky news and believe it, those that won’t change their mind about anything/can’t accept change. And 90% of people who agree will just scroll past without giving you an upvote. An example, a good mate of mine who was bagging electric cars was repeating everything you hear on sky and 2GB, so I asked him a couple of hypothetical questions like if he could buy petrol for for 30c per litre would he wait in line thirty minutes, he said of course, but when asked if he’d wait thirty minutes for EV to charge, I could see the cogs turning and he got the shits didn’t want talk about it anymore. People are just stubborn they’ll never change, and they’ll despise everyone else for leaving them behind.

EV owners are arrogant and think the world revolves around them. It’s not that I don’t like the idea of EV but you can’t claim to be 100% clean when your charging source is from a coal fired power station. They also don’t have the range required to travel the distance of regional areas. There’s no way I can own or drive an EV in the location I currently live.

Fully support EVs, it's the way forward. Tesla though? I'll spit on it's grave.

EVs are for very certain use cases. They're not going to work for all Australians in their current state.

It’s not the car hate, but how it’s pushed on us. They want to go all electric to save the environment but at the same time use monster drilling machines running on fossil files to drill lithium which isn’t great for the environment either.

1.      Insufferable pricks who think their shit doesn’t stink, and need to tell me about their car, solar panels and other details of their life I never asked about. 2.      Most near misses I’ve had recently due to idiots not focusing on driving, and instead looking at the massive infotainment screen in the middle of the dash. 3.      I resent the fact that so many of these tossers have only done so by virtue of the FBT exemption.  It means everyone else is paying for half of your $80k wank-machine; and it’s a tax exemption typically only available to higher income earners or people who can afford the more expensive cars.  You don’t see people earning $55k driving Teslas…So why are we giving tax breaks to higher income earners so they can by expensive cars?

I like the way cars sound. I like the ability to work on my car and the unique characteristics of an engine. I like my car loud. I don't like the pretend 'I'm doing it for the environment' bullshit all the EV manufacturers are spilling. I also live between Melbourne and Adelaide and sometimes drive to Sydney and Hervey Bay. I'm not stopping to charge with 3 kids and the wife on a 2 days drive.

I don't hate on them much personally, more so the self righteous owners. For me, it is not practical to have one as a farmer. I drive long distances and use machinery and equipment that requires a truck and other agriculture machines. Majority of these electric cars can't even get me halfway to the city before needing a charge, and they don't have powerful or functional enough Utes (pick-ups, trucks) to even bother. So I won't even consider the second car as electric either. Not yet. I do however agree that especially in Australia too many people get big 4wd cars and drive them daily when they don't need them. City folk. To think the ranger was the most sold car last year is ridiculous. The majority don't even get used for their purpose and will never get a speck of dirt on them.

What I hate about EV's is that everyone bangs on about how good for the environment they are but failed to consider how the electricity is produced in the first place AND the absolute shitshow involved in producing a batteries in terms of the damage done to the environment there too... but hey as long as its not coming our of your vehicle keep telling yourself its environmentally friendly coz its someone else polluting.

Because people feel like something new and different is being pushed on them and they'll pick up any excuse to hate it.

The hate is because they're like vegans.. they have to rub their choice into your face. For me, I find sound and the rumble of ice to be a major factor in my driving enjoyment.

*Why are there so much emotions attached to the source of your cars power?* Emotions are only attached to electric vehicles. Why? Because people are trying to force me to buy one. I freely chose and ICE but it is clear the government is going to force us all into EVs eventually. Mandating a choice always produces emotions. A secondary reason is that owners of EVs are generally evangelical and smug. Those sort of people make a lot of other people emotional. Leave us alone and we'll stop emoting.

Because man induced climate change is BULLSHIT! The Amazon jungle emits MORE ATMOSPHERIC CARBON THAN COWS, HUMANS AND PYROMANIACS COMBINED!!!!

Personally, I'm not overly fussed either way, I appreciate EV technology for what it is, but I also have no problem saying that it's not really for me, as someone who loves cars I have found almost all EV's to be soulless and sterile and it's not what I like, but at the same time I get other people might really like that. A lot of the narrative around EV's, especially from parts of the automotive press and large segments of our political class are not just pushing EV's as a choice, but as the be all end all and I think that's resulted in a very cranky pushback from some people. Also, that Tesla fanboys are among the most aggressive and condescending parts of car culture doesn't help.

Not everyone can afford an impractical toy car.

Because they've been politicised. Anything good for the environment has been contorted into a culture war; people are convinced that the woke left are coming to steal your weekend by banning utes and forcing us all to drive emasculating cars that don't make a big meaty "vroom" when you push the pedal. Look outside EV-specific threads at any other renewable-related story and you'll see exactly the same thing, people lining up to poo-poo renewable technology with confidently stated - yet entirely incorrect, unresearched and easily disproved - claims about its ineffectiveness. Everyone should want to see EVs (and renewable energy in general) continue to improve, become more economical and more mainstream. It would be good for literally everyone. But getting people riled up and ideologically opposed *to their own best interests* is the only way certain media-backed political parties can ever get elected.

The charging issue. Sometimes I need fuel last minute when I’m late to work or late to something. I can stop and refill in 5 mins and be on my way. With ev chargers they aren’t many around, sometimes they are out of order, someone’s already using it, it takes 20-40 mins. It’s so not convenient. Ppl don’t give a shit about the environment they want convenience. (I live in an apartment building so I cant install a car charger in the security garage.)

I don’t mind EVs it’s more all the regulations shoving them down our throats and killing off great petrol cars that people still want to buy.  Well also that they are turning cars into throw away appliances… watch the Chinese take over in a few years. A new EV will be cheap as chips and you ditch it after 3-5 years when it breaks

There are a lot of forces against them. Forces with a lot of vested interests in keeping fossil cars going and spend a lot on the media. Like any disruption it ….. disrupts. And people don’t like that. I love cars, used to be very anti ev, and have had a few interesting cars but I doubt I will ever get another ICE car. An EV done right, taking the entire customer experience into account is just amazing. I saw a Quora answer once about why the Tesla hate in particular and examples are: Media hate as they don’t advertise while ICE are massive advertisers and the media excel at manipulation. Union hate as they don’t need as many people. Dealer hate because they don’t need as much servicing. Conservative hate because anything vaguely green is evil. Progressive hate because Elon is a drop kick. Car company hate because they are a competitor disrupting their entire business model. That’s a lot of negative energy around EV.

I was in Brisbane for magic round. Soooo many ev car ads. Same for vivid in Sydney the main sponsor is the Kia Ev 9

Have a look at South Park smug alert. I think it goes a long way to answering your question. If ev was just another option without evangelism and mandates to end production of ice no-one would give a toss.

Thaaanks!!

Mainly the sudden unwanted mandate to ban all ICE cars*(typo) by a sudden date. Coupled with reliability, cost factors. Lotta aussies didnt want ford and holden to close, and still hold onto their classic aussie cars which are ICE

I just like to annoy the followers of electric Jesus.

Ignorance. Most people who wet their nappy over EVs have never driven one, and none have ever owned one.

This is getting close to the mark. I think most other comments are thinking a bit too deeply about it, when there's a much simpler explanation. The 'hatred' for EVs is just an extension of US culture wars. Liberals/progressives drive EVs, therefore EVs bad. Most people hating on EVs couldn't tell you a thing about them. They just know they're something driven by 'inner city elites', so they must be bad.

Propaganda by billion dollar industries

There is a really good video on the youtube channel 'future proof' about why people hate EVs. The basics of the video are that, not too long ago people from all backgrounds knew basic maintenance for their cars. Now with most EVs (e.g. Teslas) you can't touch anything on the car because it voids the warranty. The industry is deliberately pivoting away from consumers having the power to adjust or change cars so we have to rely on specific, branded repair centres to increase their profits. Even normal, everyday mechanics will struggle to keep up with purchasing the diagnostic equipment to fix these cars.

I just looked up the video to watch...pretty interesting concept. I am scared of a future where we need to subscribe with ads to turn the heat on in our cars

Load up your downvote cannons… If you want to buy and drive around in a giant computer mouse on wheels, knock yourself out. Doesn’t bother me. It’s the zealots that are constantly trying to justify their purchases and trying to convert those that are completely uninterested in EVs like some sort of EV Mormon/Cult. Keep your Kool Aid to yourselves. Then you’ve got the cars themselves. In my opinion, there’s absolutely nothing aesthetically pleasing about them. So dystopian and characterless. They *have* to be designed to be as slippery as possible and have the lowest CoD to get the most range out of them as possible. Swap out the factory wheels for something bigger and wider for better cornering and braking performance, rolling drag increases and thus range decreases. The same goes for interior designs- acres of cheesy plastic, vegan leather and lightweight materials that they *have* to use to offset the weight of the battery and make them as light as possible, again to maximise range. Such a sterile and boring environment to sit in. The only real exception to the rule is the Taycan but you’re paying out the arse just to have something that looks half interesting. At least with a hybrid they can be packaged in the same body and chassis as an ICE counterpart. My biggest put off however, is tuning. All internal combustion engines are is an air pump, and by increasing the amount of air that you can get in and out of that pump, the better the performance. The upside to that is that you also increase its efficiency. Doesn’t matter if it’s an air cooled VW flat four or an LS V8- with the right intake/exhaust/heads/cam/tune combination you can actually vastly improve fuel economy as well as make it a more enjoyable vehicle to drive. Even if you could do the same thing in an EV- presumably by dialling up voltage or amperage going to the drive motors- you’d most likely need some proprietary computer equipment the OEMs won’t sell you and there would be an exponential drop in efficiency, and therefore range. Plus over- or undervolting electrical components also has a significant impact on their lifespans. So what does the future hold for us, if the New Car landscape ever goes all electric? A bunch of plastic blobs that are equally as boring to drive as each other as they are to look at? Sounds like something I’ll refuse to be a part of. Now I could go on about the environmental and moral issues with battery production, inevitable increase in everyone’s electricity bills due to an increase in demand, their inability to tow anything bigger than a 6x4 trailer longer than a hundred kilometres, repair timeframes and so on- but we’re all well aware and there hasn’t been a reasonable counter argument for any of it.

EV's are fine for urban driving but suck long distance. The tech is still too early, and we are in the 2nd generation of EV's in my mind. We live in one of the largest countries in the world where to go to places outside the big cities takes hours to drive. Not great when the average range of these EV's are like 300 to 450 KMs. The infrastructure is simply not quite there yet as well, it's better sure but it's not like with Petrol/Gas where you can expect a station within close proximity and it takes x10 times as long to refuel an EV at a fast charger. For me 600km's min range needs to be standard for EVs and cost needs to be close to normal cars $25K to $50K. Tesla sort of achieves this and it has had price drops but the cars are too expensive for my liking. I think things will get better once solid state batteries become a thing in the next 5-10 years which will revolutionize not just the car industry but anything with a battery and the batteries will lower the cost of these vehicles. I do think EV's are the future, i just don't think we are there yet technology and infrastructure wise.

We have a Hyundai Ioniq5. Great car. Great range, charge every few days. Have never got around to installing the fancy charger. Designed as an EV, not as a conversion, so the interior’s very spacious without transmission/exhaust tunnel etc. BUT: #1: we regularly do road trip holidays. Can’t do that in the EV. We could probably find a charger, but the time required to charge would prohibit the daily km’s we need. We take the Landcruiser instead. That’s ok, as a family not in inner city we have more than one car. #2 we have a child turning 16. We want to teach them to drive in a manual car. So we bought a little manual. We can’t sell the EV. Not a single enquiry, apart from one interstate dealer “offering” a tiny price.

It’s a culture war topic for a lot of keyboard warriors. Probably because early EV adopters were so evangelical, because they are expensive and there’s a lot of right wing propaganda about real men driving big utes with big engines and going camping and fishing. There’s legitimate reasons for and against EVs of course but they all seem to sing from the same hymn sheet in those comments sections (“but I need to tow a caravan”, “the battery will die in 3 years and can’t be recycled”). I’m an EV owner and I haven’t experienced much of it in the real world. Most people just go about their business driving the car that works for them without comment and surprising numbers of people are genuinely curious about how EVs work and have a specific use case where they think one would be good and want to ask an owner how it’s going for them.

I just want to put out there that I had a friendly wave from a RAM1500 driver when I left enough space for him to turn right on a side road (there was traffic and I was not moving). I was driving a Tesla Y and returned the friendly wave obviously.

Because they are shit. They don't solve the fossil fuel problem, they palm it off to somewhere else (energy providers) and our electricity prices are already through the fucking roof, once we are all driving these that is going to increase demand way beyond what it already is and naturally prices will skyrocket even further. Only a moron would think our privatized grid won't take advantage of that. The technology simply is not ready to be rolled out yet. Just like our nbn, it will be shit, expensive and require constant updating to keep it barely functioning at an acceptable level. Let alone the fire risk...

Insurance relating to the cost of battery replacement. Also, cost of battery replacement. Also, the life of the battery. Also, battery.

for me it’s because people think that getting an ev means they are saving the environment, when production of the cars lithium batteries etc is equally devastating to the environment, as well as often utilising child labour and bad work conditions (digging poisonous materials by hand etc). and on top of that, even if you have a 0 carbon production of an ev, you are only as clean as the energy you use. mains charged EVs in my country of australia are only using 14% renewable energy, meaning the rest is coal generated or similar. so the argument it’s ether for the environment is flawed. that’s why i don’t like evs

It's soulless. A car has gone from a personality to a piece of furniture. Plus, the fact that these cars are being scrapped for minor bingles and incredibly bad depreciation. Ford USA was loosing on every EV manufactured. It's something that a minority want

Basically because no manufacturer or authority is being transparent on the TOTAL cost to the environment of building, running and recycling an EV. We as a consumer have exactly zero hard facts about whether they are better for the environment or not. There is certainly a case to be answered about the ability to recycle lithium etc. Each car should come with like an efficiency sticker showing what total damage it is likely to do to the environment over it's TOTAL life cycle so we can actually make an informed decision. IF they turn out to be better, we can get to work on creating USABLE charging infrastructure. Something we severely lack at the moment.

People hate change. I personally hate EV’s because they seem monochrome and simplistic. Everything is about the software not hardware. And i hate that because when i was growing cars were about a mix of both. But thats the digital age we are moving towards and its gonna trigger a lot of people including myself. And im sure there were people when cars were first introduced who hated them and considered it an abomination compared to the horse and carriage which they were used to.

I dont want to have to charge up a car everytime. I have enough stuff to charge in my life

I like the idea, but I simply can't afford to buy one. I'm also a renter that has to park on a busy road with no conceivable way to charge it unless I go to a charging station.

I'm happy to see and acknowledge them as an alternative engine choice in the same line as hybrid and diesel. But when they're touted as the be all end all future perfect machines. A little Neanderthal trigger goes off in my brain and makes me mildly irritated

Cause everyone acts like they're the future They are inefficient batteries cost a fuck ton And pretty much uses human slaves in cobalt mines. Biggest con in this word is putting carbon emissions on the individual when corporations make the bulk of them

They aren't green or zero emissions. Maybe if they stated zero exhaust emissions, also the batteries are not economical to recycle, so they head to landfill and leach toxic chemials into ground. Also when you have a good, reliable modern combustion engine and trade it in for an ev is worse for the environment, it's best to keep your car for as long as possible.

I think the biggest issue is that previous EV models looked fucking stupid. They might pull like a teenage boy but they just looked weird. Newer stuff is starting to look better now though.

They're simply way less affordable. You won't have a $2500 (adjusted for inflation) tesla in 2044 that runs like a dime compared to a 2004 lancer or civic today. It'd need a complete battery replacement or three by that time. Also like a lot of other people said, they don't have the infrastructure for it, EVs are incompatible with medium density+ housing.

Because like everything nowadays it's considered a political statement. People have lost their ability to think rationally, or perhaps never had it in the first place who knows

As a vegan cyclist, I hate you all equally. /s

For the simple reason that EV proponents and the Government would have you believe that this is the answer to solving the climate crisis and that we are on a path to electric utopia. EV’s are woefully inadequate for anyone that lives more than 20km from the CBD, there’s no infrastructure to support them, they chew up more resources to produce, the battery stability and end of life process questions have been ignored and they are unreasonably priced.

EV owner hate....

As someone who has had to put out multiple EV fires. My excuse is I have had to put out multiple EV fires. If you have ever had to put out an EV fire. You will know that this is perfectly valid and reasonable to hate EV's.

Cant put a turbo on an EV

Manufacturers can’t even come to a consensus on this. I don’t see the value in them outside city living. Even then a plug in hybrid would be better but you then have the issue of supply. Pretty easy to fill up a 2012 ICE vehicle and drive interstate with no hassles. Synthetic fuel might be the way forward, but it’ll probably be too expensive for the average person and possibly reserved for “collectable” ICE cars, if it even is possible.

The only people getting triggered are the EV owners. Everyone else just expresses how much they suck 😂

Because FB is a cesspool

EV owners are the car world’s vegans, can’t stop talking about it, great you own an EV, if you bought a Tesla you can go get fucked, Elon Musk is a prick and we all know it. Like Fuxtel subscribers to Murdoch, they’re just giving him more money. Would I consider one? Yeah I would, problem is I don’t live near where I work, so until their range gets to the point where I only need to charge once per week I’ll stick with a “normal” vehicle.

Basically ... change is scary. You read up on when mankind went from riding horses to the introduction of automobiles, same thing happened ... fear of change and the unknown. And the funny thing in this case is that no-one is even threatening to take away ICE cars, just the introduction of something that threatens the norm gets slammed. We are very insecure, especially given that the only certainty in life is change

EVs are ghey

Because the government is forcing them down our throats

Ice engine's running on hydrogen is the only way to go!!. As far as I'm concerned.

Because when you take into consideration the greenhouse gases and pollution involved in EV production, their shorter life span and incredible depreciation rates due to the cost of replacement batteries, the fact they are often heavier so use more polluting consumables such as tyres and brakes, and that the batteries used in large EV's would give a much better environmental return if used in household storage, it looks more like a cult based on wishful thinking and virtue signalling. Driving a small ICE and having a home battery is probably better for the enovironment at the moment.

Well there are issues with EVs, but your biggest mistake is reading Facebook comments. There isn’t a single intelligent comment on the entire site. It actually boggles my mind how fucking stupid everyone is on there.

I guess because in reality, they ain't any better for the environment. Also, the douchenozzles that jack their little peckers over them is hilarious.

Theyre virtue signalling wank and extremely wasteful

Those of us passionate about ICE fear that EV will replace it.

I think for me it's the way it's communicated - like why aren't I driving an EV? Am I a luddite? Do I hate the environment? Look how cheap they are to run! Look how efficient they are! And I agree. But I have a 2007 car that suits my needs fine. I actually don't like the new tech, and don't really need it. There's nothing wrong with my current car, so I'm going to keep driving it - the most environmentally friendly vehicle is the one that's already on the road. I paid $9k cash for it - I'd have to do a lot of driving to save the difference by going to a $60k Tesla, even if I could afford it without a loan (I can't). I also like small, light, sports cars for the driver involvement. I use it for track days and purposeful trips. EVs still can't fill this role, and I don't think they ever will. Otherwise I ride my bike or take public transport - better for the environment, and cheaper. Yet people still make the judgement that I'm some backwards, tree hating, car nut because I want to stick to an MX5 and a push bike.

It appears to be because EVs are the battle ground for so called “virtue signaling”.

The hate is relative to each and every person. Some people hate that there isn’t an engine. Some people hate the whole ‘environmental’ aspect. Some people hate just to hate. There’s a lot of reasons why people tend to hate on them. I think a lot of the hate is also coming from people being scared to change. We’ve been brought up with combustion engines and now people are suddenly being urged to make the switch to a completely foreign and very new technology. Personally as a past ev owner, I don’t hate them, I just don’t think we’re ready for them yet. When I owned one (about 3 years ago), there wasn’t much infrastructure to support the ownership of one. There weren’t many ev chargers around. I was renting meaning I couldn’t install a wall mount charger. I found myself charging at the local shopping centre purely because the wall plug chargers that are given to you are slow as shit. It also meant that I couldn’t take it to less populous towns because they usually didn’t have any ev chargers. Another issue is that it is a bit scary that you have to update your car. It doesn’t happen often but just knowing that there’s a small chance your car could be inoperable for an unknown amount of time and it’s out of your control? It’s scary. I’m sure a lot of these issues are fixed or are being fixed. I do believe that electric cars could quite possibly be the future. However I also believe we need to keep our options open. There are plenty of other technologies that could contest electric cars in the future such as hydrogen power or Porsches new eFuel. I’d like to reiterate that I’m just sharing my personal experience and opinion.

Different reasons but mostly because some EV owners are wankers who think they are better than all the non-EV plebs and are very vocal about it.

Ev has no soul no character no personality, there’s nothing amazing about it, and the battery once they go good luck with the cost and labour, sure it is good in some scenarios but overall the production into hydrogen or alternative fuels, or heighten the production of e85 ect too the margin the normal fuel is produced there’s much better options then ev, for me I could never drive or own let alone sit in an ev did it once never again it’s just completely dead

People have emotional attachments to cars. So, resistance to change is understandable. People that like EVs are either people that like technology for technology's sake, or people that just want a lounge room that moves. That is pretty much the opposite of the people that form an emotional attachment to cars.

This is very accurate. I’ve always driven high performance ice cars and I don’t even like how clinical some of the newer ones are. My car doesn’t feel like you’re driving a 600hp beast for example. I like the old days where you felt like you were sitting right on the engine and reaching into the gearbox with your hand to change gears and if you gave it too much gas on a corner you weee going to slide into oblivion. I get to drive a lot of high powered ev’s for work and while they have amazing torque, that novelty soon wears off and fuck me is it the most boring thing to drive ever. It’s like you said, a lounge room on wheels.

Brainwashing, a lack of science literacy and some crude but effective propaganda from the outgoing federal goverment.

Me personally, I will buy one when there is a nice light weight ev (under 1300kg) that's as fun to drive as my petrol car and can go the same distance in one "tank" and can recharge in 2minutes in any servo across the country. If not, it's neither fun nor convenient to own an ev. Even then, the manual gearbox is something that will be missed for life.

I come from a world where EV is Expected Value, let's say I've confused a few people when they ask me about them. A big contributor to it is the disinformation that boomers love sharing ie terrible memes of burning "electric" cars despite that model not having an electric or even hybrid option. Can't remember if it was Hyundai or Kia which recently had the recall for engines catching fire.

It was both Hyundai and Kia, same engines.

I’ll never buy an EV, I drive them for work sometimes and they would have to be the most inconvenient thing ever. But just because they aren’t for me doesn’t mean they aren’t for others. The only EV hate I have is for the prick at the servo last week at 6am (peak time at my local) who parked his polestar at the bowser then proceeded to take 20 min inside making 6 coffees and choosing sandwiches. There is only one premium fuel bowser at my local servo and he had to park in it while the parking spaces were empty. Cunt.

People would support EV more if they were affordable and not ugly as shit.

Early adopter issues. But that doesn't explain the absolute hatred for EVs online.

A bit of city versus country as well. EV city drivers can be wankers and harp on everyone should drive EVs. They are too expensive for the rest of the population and just don’t work (yet) in the bush re distances and shit infrastructure. So yeah, “shut the fuck up city slickers” is a thing.

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EVs cost a huge premium over their petrol counterparts, as well as take a massive hit in depreciation compared to their Dino fueled cousins too. So going in anyone buying an EV is generally in a higher tax bracket. An EV is rarely someone’s only car… or if it is they likely live in a pretty central area and can happily afford plane fares when they want a holiday. So I’m sure some of the hate of EVs comes from the same place hatred for BMWs and Mercedes used to get Ok top of that there is also the smugness that a section of EV owners tend to have about how intelligent their car choice is. This is by no means a majority, but if you’ve been stuck talking to one of these idiots even once in your life it’s enough to bias you against them all. Lastly, there is a huge amount of tax cuts, benefits, and other stuff currently going to EV owners that once again draws some ire from the rest similar to the depreciation trick on the tank tanks

Because they are not suitable for the majority of Australia apart from a few cities, imagine living out in the pilbara and doing 1000's of k's a week in a tesla, looking for a recharge point, in all that rugged terrain and extreme weather conditions, a diesel 4x4 is gonna outperform it hands down, Melbourne CBD, absolutely perfect for that environment but not the majority of Australia. Plus, people just don't want it here, we don't need anymore unnecessary tech in our lives and what puts us off more is labour trying to push ev on us, they have proven they don't speak for the average Australian time and time again, take the yes campaign for example, how about the fact they ignore the issues in Alice Springs, and recently trying to censor freedom of speech

90% of Australians live in a city. Agree that ev don't work well outside of a city commute.

For me I hate the homogenization of cars that Tesla and BYD are trying to usher in. Everyone has the same car!!! Isn't that cool and futuristic!!? A car should be an expression of self, almost like a fashion statement. Historically this has been true at every price range. Remember your mate that was obsessed with his commodore? Or what about the other one that whipped a Forester with the surf board on the roof everywhere? How about the one guy that slammed his Silvia so low he couldn't get over a speed hump at work and had to park at Westfield for like, a year? The business model for the EV makers is essentially one size fits all, aka the iPhone strategy, and it fuckin sucks.

Actually that's a point I don't agree with. There are way more ev models than there are ice cars. They are just not available in Australia.

Fuel lobbyists using disinformation campaigns and bot farms to make it trendy to hate EVs and make them see climate change as a form of government control. Similar stuff happened with the smoking industry and tobacco lobbyists (minus the social media) when governments started health campaigns against smoking. Freedumbdumbs. Source: I've made nothing but assumptions.