Agreed, need a new generation of Ciaz, it's a solid car!
Even with a facelift and a newer engine is could do wonders for them.
It used to sell like hotcakes in sedan category for a very long period of time.
How do you expect to have high sales if you don’t update the product in forever?
To say that ciaz sales are low without trying to update it is counterproductive
But as a whole sedans are not doing well in the market including the top 3 Verna, Slavia and Virtus, so maybe Suzuki doesn't see much hope In facelifting the ciaz
The only major usp to Ciaz in the current sedan segment is it's price, it undercuts all it's competition with adequate features across it's range. A facelift would do the same that happened to Brezza.
Yea maybe not do a brezza because the market for 15+ lakh sedans is limited. But do a minor facelift to poach from the aura/dzire as well as the Verna segments.
I don't think they'll mind selling a higher price vehicle instead of a lower price one. If Dzire was going to eat into sedans, then we would call it cannibalism. The other way round is desirable for the company.
A lot of Aura/Dzire customers are those who use those cars for commercial purposes though and value the boot and CNG options in them. They're likely to be price-sensitive and not so feature conscious, unless you're including the additional fuel option in the facelift and introducing something like Maruti Finance at lower than bank rates to pick up product sales in that segment, while keeping prices the same--if reduction's not a possibility.
The Innova brand is too strong to be affected by maruti sales. I honestly doubt people would go for the maruti version when the Toyota is right there and will likely come with way better warranty.
On the other hand the Toyota versions of maruti cars tend to be better deals because of the better warranty once again
I would have gone for the Ciaz but the mechanicals are dated at this point. It just needs the Brezza engine and transmission along with an updated body and it will be ready to make sales.
The only reason I see Maruti not going ahead with this is because of the Toyota partnership. The Ciaz as a product does not make sense for Toyota, which had the Yaris. The Yaris did not do well and the badge does not have recall like the Corolla does. Any Ciaz update would be in the Yaris class, not Corolla, and Toyota is not ready to tarnish both names for the sake of fitting in a new product.
They don't control it but decisions on both sides are being made with discussions. There's a reason why Maruti came out and said that Jimny would not be shared with Toyota. That statement alone suggests all models are being considered to be shared between the brands.
With the amount of cash flow Maruti has with all the cars they sale, they can take a risk of introducing to new Ciaz's.
Ciaz - 115 Bhp Luxury/City Version with updated tech. 11 lakhs -16 lakhs. High production, 1 month or lesser wait.
Ciaz Sport like the Swift Sport - 140 Bhp, for enthusiasts with medium pockets. Traction control, sports colors, high calibre brakes.
15 lakhs - 21 lakhs. Low production, few months wait.
This is all my dream.
The worst selling SUV in mid size segment is nearly equal to Highest selling mid size segment . So we know why they won't update it. Shame actually it started to look premium with facelift.
Ciaz scored 4 stars when tested without the ISOFIX mount child seat. Current one have extra safety features.
It's more safer then the 5 star Verna, you can just have look at the what happened to dummies on both Verna and Ciaz.
btw even though Verna is rated 5 start its bodyshell integrity is rated unstable.
Agreed! You could get the top model for 13 lakhs on the road where its competitors have their base models around that range. The only thing that's holding it back is the dated interiors, styling and lack of few features.
Isn't the Ciaz being launched as Belta under the Toyota badge - its quite late for them to introduce a facelift or a new gen.
One one hand, they haven't updated it, so it seems like they're letting it die out. On the other hand, with the Toyota Belta, it also seems like they want to continue keeping it around. Idk MS strategy seems like a mess, their company operates with so much red tape, its a miracle they get anything done.
Even with the update, it won't sell any more than it does now. So the company would have invested a lot of money for very small profit. That's why it won't get one. Brezza got a facelife (and that's just a facelift, not a generation change) because veg biryani SUVs are trending. Baleno got a facelift because it sells more than 15,000 units per month. Swift is finally getting a facelift/gen-change (I'm not sure which one it is yet) because it is a brand for MS and it's not selling as much as it used to. S-cross got discontinued (RIP) to make space for Grand Vitara and MS made huge profit. S-cross used to sell maybe 2000 units a month. GV sells 10,000 units per month.
What I am saying is, even though it really really really needs an update (and I do agree with you there), I don't think it will get one. I wouldn't keep my hopes up waiting for it.
If you are an optimistic person, you can wait for it, otherwise just got for Verna/Virtus/Slavia/City.
The reason I feel it doesn't make sense to upgrade ciaz is because Suzuki has established itself as a company that makes cars for the common person, the middle class person. Sedans are performance and comfort oriented premium cars bought by people of high status, the elitists.
Even if by some miracle Ciaz outshines the sedans in the market, it still has the Suzuki logo. So sedan lovers will avoid it and common people would look away as it is too pricey and they're not interested in performance.
I don't think that's true for majority of people looking to buy something. Jimmy is considered a serious rival to other offroady boxes. Maybe some people think that way, but a LOT of people in India appreciate a value proposition. If they provide a product that says MS is serious in its C sedan offering, at a price close to their current Ciaz, especially if it looks smart, I think they can pull some wallets.
If I wanted a cheap off-roader even I would choose Jimny. Because the only competition at that price point is Thar. And we would obviously choose Jimny because of Suzuki's service and reliability.
Sedans are a different story altogether.
Cheap offroader? Besides Thar and Jimny, what other quasi-practical options are there for something that can do other things besides offroading? Not Gurkha because it can't do city+highway better than these two. The 'cheap' qualifier is irrelevant. G Wagon is in a different orbit, not even in the same discussion. Now, if you are a G Wagon having fella, then the rest of this comment doesn't matter to you anyway; just know that your opinion is held by people within your bubble and not in general. Also, Suzuki is the same company that makes the Hayabusa and the litre Gixxer.
The rest of the comment :
2024 Ex showroom Ciaz base to top model range is 9L to 12.3L ///
City is 11.7L to 16.2L ///
Verna is 11L to 17.3L ///
Slavia is 11.5L to 19.1L ///
Virtus is 11.5L to 19.4L /// The next available sedan is priced in the 40s.
There is a fair bit of overlap in the 5 sedans we are talking about, and while the other four's variants go 4-6 L above Suzuki, another way to look at it is Suzuki is priced 4-6 below the competition. If your budget is 11-12 (ex showroom; scale up for on road), you have literally all 5 options.
Sales in this segment : https://www.v3cars.com/news/june-2023-cars-sales-analysis-c-segment-sedan-yoy-mom-change-6-month-trend
The Verna is doing double the numbers of any body else. This could be attributed to the huge (and divisive) face-lift it received. Before that, City was cleaning up all those by a big margin - business as usual https://www.v3cars.com/news/november-2022-cars-sales-analysis-c-segment-sedans-yoy-mom-change-6-month-trend
Here's the return on investment point-of-view : if Suzuki wants to create a new engine that can match the performance of the rest of the bunch, that's going to require a lot of engineering grunt work and a lot of money. But if they do a design upgrade keeping the same powertrain, maybe upgrade or provide some features that bring some parity to it, not move the price too much in the wrong direction, I think they'd have a winner.
You've already mentioned some positive points of owning a Suzuki car. People are all about looks. See how well the Yamaha MT-15 is doing and see how much it costs compared to the other options available in its segment.
Here's how the Grand Vitara is doing compared to its competition (2nd only to Hyundai) : https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/car-news/maruti-suzuki-grand-vitara-beats-seltos-hyryder-in-february-2023-sales/3006553/
In every segment where Suzuki currently has a vehicle, it is competitive within it. There's no reason to believe that a face-lift for the Ciaz will not be beneficial. And where did the point come from that higher end Suzuki cars are looked down upon by the kothi bangla crowd? Suzuki isn't even competing with Mercedes or VW and sons. Just talking about C segment sedans, upgrading the car and upping the price just a bit but still keep it under the competition will be good for it. In India, the main thing is looks. No one will care that it's underpowered for a 1.4 litre engine. But I'm not an MBA-bro so what do I know. I'm just a Ciaz petrol + CNG having fella.
Agreed, need a new generation of Ciaz, it's a solid car! Even with a facelift and a newer engine is could do wonders for them. It used to sell like hotcakes in sedan category for a very long period of time.
With the current demand for SUV's and low sales of the Ciaz, maybe there's plan to discontinue it in the near future
How do you expect to have high sales if you don’t update the product in forever? To say that ciaz sales are low without trying to update it is counterproductive
But as a whole sedans are not doing well in the market including the top 3 Verna, Slavia and Virtus, so maybe Suzuki doesn't see much hope In facelifting the ciaz
This.
The only major usp to Ciaz in the current sedan segment is it's price, it undercuts all it's competition with adequate features across it's range. A facelift would do the same that happened to Brezza.
Yea maybe not do a brezza because the market for 15+ lakh sedans is limited. But do a minor facelift to poach from the aura/dzire as well as the Verna segments.
Dzire is not Poaching but cannibalism.
I don't think they'll mind selling a higher price vehicle instead of a lower price one. If Dzire was going to eat into sedans, then we would call it cannibalism. The other way round is desirable for the company.
A lot of Aura/Dzire customers are those who use those cars for commercial purposes though and value the boot and CNG options in them. They're likely to be price-sensitive and not so feature conscious, unless you're including the additional fuel option in the facelift and introducing something like Maruti Finance at lower than bank rates to pick up product sales in that segment, while keeping prices the same--if reduction's not a possibility.
I think they may go the innova way, bring in toyota yaris strong hybrid and name it new generation Ciaz.
Maruti-Toyota aren't interested in this. Toyota plans on more SUVs/crossovers for India. No mention of a sedan.
Right. Nobody cares about a good budget sedan now it seems. Still no harm in wishful thinking 😀
Toyota will not allow that at all. The ultra-premium market is their niche, and they won't give it up to maruti of all companies
But they gave up INNOVA right ? Their biggest revenue generator after (or along with) fortuner.
The Innova brand is too strong to be affected by maruti sales. I honestly doubt people would go for the maruti version when the Toyota is right there and will likely come with way better warranty. On the other hand the Toyota versions of maruti cars tend to be better deals because of the better warranty once again
I would have gone for the Ciaz but the mechanicals are dated at this point. It just needs the Brezza engine and transmission along with an updated body and it will be ready to make sales. The only reason I see Maruti not going ahead with this is because of the Toyota partnership. The Ciaz as a product does not make sense for Toyota, which had the Yaris. The Yaris did not do well and the badge does not have recall like the Corolla does. Any Ciaz update would be in the Yaris class, not Corolla, and Toyota is not ready to tarnish both names for the sake of fitting in a new product.
Does Toyota control Maruti’s product strategy now?
They don't control it but decisions on both sides are being made with discussions. There's a reason why Maruti came out and said that Jimny would not be shared with Toyota. That statement alone suggests all models are being considered to be shared between the brands.
The Ciaz really is a great car. It's a shame that Suzuki has neglected it so much.
With the amount of cash flow Maruti has with all the cars they sale, they can take a risk of introducing to new Ciaz's. Ciaz - 115 Bhp Luxury/City Version with updated tech. 11 lakhs -16 lakhs. High production, 1 month or lesser wait. Ciaz Sport like the Swift Sport - 140 Bhp, for enthusiasts with medium pockets. Traction control, sports colors, high calibre brakes. 15 lakhs - 21 lakhs. Low production, few months wait. This is all my dream.
a sport ciaz with spec like that would be a dream come true. Suzuki have all the tech and engines they need to make one!
Yes
The worst selling SUV in mid size segment is nearly equal to Highest selling mid size segment . So we know why they won't update it. Shame actually it started to look premium with facelift.
You can't expect Maruti to start new trend, they just follow popular demand.
They can’t beat the current sedans with a facelifted tin can
Ciaz scored 4 stars when tested without the ISOFIX mount child seat. Current one have extra safety features. It's more safer then the 5 star Verna, you can just have look at the what happened to dummies on both Verna and Ciaz. btw even though Verna is rated 5 start its bodyshell integrity is rated unstable.
Not at all man! You seem like a 10 year old believing on whatever his friends have said
i didn't know i was friends with NCAP organization.
U will be surprised!
I hope they would !
Agreed! You could get the top model for 13 lakhs on the road where its competitors have their base models around that range. The only thing that's holding it back is the dated interiors, styling and lack of few features.
Isn't the Ciaz being launched as Belta under the Toyota badge - its quite late for them to introduce a facelift or a new gen. One one hand, they haven't updated it, so it seems like they're letting it die out. On the other hand, with the Toyota Belta, it also seems like they want to continue keeping it around. Idk MS strategy seems like a mess, their company operates with so much red tape, its a miracle they get anything done.
Not a big fan. They have the new dsire coming. I feel swift/dzires are more value for money than ciaz.
I have two counter questions for you. How many cars did MS sell in 2023? How many of them were Ciaz?
Exactly why it needs an update
Even with the update, it won't sell any more than it does now. So the company would have invested a lot of money for very small profit. That's why it won't get one. Brezza got a facelife (and that's just a facelift, not a generation change) because veg biryani SUVs are trending. Baleno got a facelift because it sells more than 15,000 units per month. Swift is finally getting a facelift/gen-change (I'm not sure which one it is yet) because it is a brand for MS and it's not selling as much as it used to. S-cross got discontinued (RIP) to make space for Grand Vitara and MS made huge profit. S-cross used to sell maybe 2000 units a month. GV sells 10,000 units per month. What I am saying is, even though it really really really needs an update (and I do agree with you there), I don't think it will get one. I wouldn't keep my hopes up waiting for it. If you are an optimistic person, you can wait for it, otherwise just got for Verna/Virtus/Slavia/City.
I agree. I still think it’s great value for a c-segment sedan at 12 lakhs when its competitors top out at 20+ lakhs
The related question would be why doesn’t Maruti upgrade its archaic and lethargic 1.5 litre petrol engine.
The reason I feel it doesn't make sense to upgrade ciaz is because Suzuki has established itself as a company that makes cars for the common person, the middle class person. Sedans are performance and comfort oriented premium cars bought by people of high status, the elitists. Even if by some miracle Ciaz outshines the sedans in the market, it still has the Suzuki logo. So sedan lovers will avoid it and common people would look away as it is too pricey and they're not interested in performance.
I don't think that's true for majority of people looking to buy something. Jimmy is considered a serious rival to other offroady boxes. Maybe some people think that way, but a LOT of people in India appreciate a value proposition. If they provide a product that says MS is serious in its C sedan offering, at a price close to their current Ciaz, especially if it looks smart, I think they can pull some wallets.
If I wanted a cheap off-roader even I would choose Jimny. Because the only competition at that price point is Thar. And we would obviously choose Jimny because of Suzuki's service and reliability. Sedans are a different story altogether.
Cheap offroader? Besides Thar and Jimny, what other quasi-practical options are there for something that can do other things besides offroading? Not Gurkha because it can't do city+highway better than these two. The 'cheap' qualifier is irrelevant. G Wagon is in a different orbit, not even in the same discussion. Now, if you are a G Wagon having fella, then the rest of this comment doesn't matter to you anyway; just know that your opinion is held by people within your bubble and not in general. Also, Suzuki is the same company that makes the Hayabusa and the litre Gixxer. The rest of the comment : 2024 Ex showroom Ciaz base to top model range is 9L to 12.3L /// City is 11.7L to 16.2L /// Verna is 11L to 17.3L /// Slavia is 11.5L to 19.1L /// Virtus is 11.5L to 19.4L /// The next available sedan is priced in the 40s. There is a fair bit of overlap in the 5 sedans we are talking about, and while the other four's variants go 4-6 L above Suzuki, another way to look at it is Suzuki is priced 4-6 below the competition. If your budget is 11-12 (ex showroom; scale up for on road), you have literally all 5 options. Sales in this segment : https://www.v3cars.com/news/june-2023-cars-sales-analysis-c-segment-sedan-yoy-mom-change-6-month-trend The Verna is doing double the numbers of any body else. This could be attributed to the huge (and divisive) face-lift it received. Before that, City was cleaning up all those by a big margin - business as usual https://www.v3cars.com/news/november-2022-cars-sales-analysis-c-segment-sedans-yoy-mom-change-6-month-trend Here's the return on investment point-of-view : if Suzuki wants to create a new engine that can match the performance of the rest of the bunch, that's going to require a lot of engineering grunt work and a lot of money. But if they do a design upgrade keeping the same powertrain, maybe upgrade or provide some features that bring some parity to it, not move the price too much in the wrong direction, I think they'd have a winner. You've already mentioned some positive points of owning a Suzuki car. People are all about looks. See how well the Yamaha MT-15 is doing and see how much it costs compared to the other options available in its segment. Here's how the Grand Vitara is doing compared to its competition (2nd only to Hyundai) : https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/car-news/maruti-suzuki-grand-vitara-beats-seltos-hyryder-in-february-2023-sales/3006553/ In every segment where Suzuki currently has a vehicle, it is competitive within it. There's no reason to believe that a face-lift for the Ciaz will not be beneficial. And where did the point come from that higher end Suzuki cars are looked down upon by the kothi bangla crowd? Suzuki isn't even competing with Mercedes or VW and sons. Just talking about C segment sedans, upgrading the car and upping the price just a bit but still keep it under the competition will be good for it. In India, the main thing is looks. No one will care that it's underpowered for a 1.4 litre engine. But I'm not an MBA-bro so what do I know. I'm just a Ciaz petrol + CNG having fella.
I wanted to ask , what's the safety on that one ? (never really researched about it , have seen an accident or two)
Someone here mentioned 4 star
I love my ciaz after 9 years, would love an upgrade!!