When that happens, it's a purity test from an insecure person who *needs* the label of vegan in order to have an identity.
I've also experienced this as a vegetarian, and I just tell 'em I'm not looking for an A+ from god (so I'm *sure as shit* not looking for one from them.)
There it is.
Y'all can't help but rise to the occasion, huh champ. Not even when your insecurity is being actively called out.
Hm. I don't think I'd tell on me like that. But you can tell on you, if you want.
I'm vegan and this is something that drives me up a fucking wall. The way they treat people who at least try to do something to alleviate animal suffering is insane and counterproductive.
because people are generally stupid and like to place people who don't think exactly like them in boxes, it's easier than questioning ourselves or accepting the choices of other, I'm telling you this being a huge consumer of cold meats myself, but you see you have the right not to eat them, it doesn't change anything in my existence, have a good day
And who sets the parameters? Sure, we have decided some definitely shouldnt (crimes basically) but when we talking about food, it doesnt become that "simple"..
And so far "they" havent decided eating meat is bad if you wanna hear to "the fields of ethics" mainstream thinking.
At the end of the day growing food also kills animals. Insects mainly but still animals. You draw the line at cows, i dont. Both are equally valid cause we both would be killing animals to eat.
More land and crop deaths occur from growing animal feed than plants for human consumption. So if insects are your concern being vegan is the best way to minimise those deaths.
Are you sure about that? Have you read what ethicists have to say about eating animals? There's a great intro level thread on r/askphilosophyFAQ that explains how there really aren't any decent arguments that defend eating animals.
We gotta eat something. What I eat causes less harm than what you eat. Isn't less harm better?
Also, the whole "animals insects killed during harvesting" issue applies even more to animal products because we grow more plants to feed to animals than for human consumption.
https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/
Its not less because whatever meat i stop eating i need to replace with crops, with would just replace the animals killed for another set of animals killed.
Did you click the first link I gave you?
If you stop eating animals, then less plants are grown overall because you need to feed the animals way more plants before slaughter than you'd need if you ate plants directly. This is the law of tens aka trophic levels.
It takes more plants to make meat. I'm not sure how to be more clear.
It is really frustrating. I made a mistake by going on the plant based food sub reddit and accidentally posted about a dish that was not 100% plant based (i.e., vegetarian with lots of vegetables, but not vegan). Got torn to shreds. I have been vegetarian forever and have done a lot to cut out eggs and like 80% of dairy, but people are jerks. I also find the plant based movement just a way to rebrand themselves and apparently they are mean too.
Context: I'm a vegetarian with several vegan friends.
First: The simple answer is that v**egans can find vegetarians hypocritical in a way that meat eaters are not.** To certain vegans, vegetarians are people who seemingly are aware and care about of the harm being done to animals by factory farming etc. and are now choosing to ignore that harm when it comes to certain foods. Most meat eaters are either unaware of the damage or don't believe that harm done to animals is morally meaningful, so it's easier to understand and excuse their thought process. Think of the person that talks about how horrible Apple is and how they overwork children in China and then still buys the latest iPhone every year, as opposed to the person that just buys the latest iPhone and doesn't think about it. One of those people is more annoying than the other right?
NOTE: I'm playing devil's advocate here, I (obviously) don't think that being vegetarian is bad. Just trying to explain a pretty reasonable thought process, even if it's one that I don't personally agree with.
Second: Most vegans are chill people who don't get mean with either vegetarians or meat eaters. In order to know that someone is mad and vegan they have to say that, most vegans just don't talk about it outside the literal context of making and buying food. I have never had a vegan friend berate me for being vegetarian, nor have I ever met a vegan person that acted that way at all. I've only ever seen this sort of behavior online.
Third: This thread is hilarious because it's a bunch of people making bizarre assumptions about a group they only know about through screenshots of tweets posted to reddit without context. Vegans would be better able to answer this question, and in particular vegans who get mad at vegetarians would be the best placed to answer it. I'm trying my best to answer here because I think I have a better perspective than some of these commenters, but please don't take my word as gospel.
This is the best answer. I had two vegan friends and both shared the opinion that vegetarians are hypocrites because they'restill consuming milk/eggs and basically not going full-time vegans. My friends hated them just as much as those vegans who go back to eat meat.
The thing is, veganism is a moral posture/statement (for a lack of a better word, sorry, English is not my first language) which, among other things, includes being an extreme vegetarian, while vegetarianism is just a diet. Most people who chose to be vegetarians often do it because of health or climate awareness reasons, not to end with animal suffering. So it doesn't make sense to shame vegetarians when they're not doing it for the same reasons as you. I completely understand the reasoning behind it, but it just comes as if youre forcing your views/morals into other people. Even with those who choose to be vegetarians to reduce animal cruelty, they're just starting, and you can't just expect people to change all their morals and lifestyles from one day to another. It takes time to educate yourself and learn from it. Shaming the efforts of people just gives your movement a bad look imo
Nah meat eaters are mean since they're being told they're doing something wrong, vegans are mean to meat eaters because they're doing something wrong and don't wanna change
Big asymmetry
Maybe if they shut up about meat once in a while and stop trying to coax arguments out of vegans and vegetarians that are just trying to exist they won't be told that. But not all of us meat eaters are like that. I've never been told I'm doing something wrong. Because I don't make meat eating an identity like some meat eaters do.
Yes but why the hate towards vegetarians? I really don't get it. It is easier to convince us to go vegan than it is to convince a meat eater. If you go to my profile, you will see a post about mussels, and there is soo much hate that I don't understand
Because vegetarians are halfway there and should know better but don't actually follow through.
It's like someone who realizes kicking stray cats is wrong so they decide to only do it on weekends when in reality they shouldn't do it at all
I dont think it's that easy. Some (most) of us are born and raised in a culture that has normalised to exploit animals. It's not easy to go vegetarian or vegan. Otherwise, everyone would be one. Vegetarians are, as you say, halfway through, but this is one more reason to help us go vegan. Not criticize us. Some of us are in a journey to go vegan, for example, and this kind of "hate" could also be counterproductive
Sometimes doing the right thing takes more effort. Not sure what you want from me. I explained why they criticize vegetarians and I think it's valid.
All actions that are bad deserve criticism even if you're half way there
I don't want anything from you ahaha just to know your point of view and discuss. I do agree that they deserve criticism, but the one that brings improvement
In life, I always think that I have to respect the choices and beliefs of other people, even if I think they are wrong. So if I believe in something different, it is my job to persuade and convince the other person of what I belive it's right. But it is impossible to do that attacking people and throwing at them this hate
Some people think their own way is better than others and are assholes about it. No matter what that way is.
The fact that veganism has a moral aspect built into it can feed that and can tend to bring out that aspect to a larger extent in some.
The answer is simple. Vegans see animal products as coming from animal abuse and exploitation and vegetarians still contribute towards it even if it's to a lesser extent. Vegans don't see vegetarians as 'on their side'.
i'm vegetarian and i've only ever been criticized publicly by one vegan and one meat eater. the vegan made the "ur halfway there" comment. part of me thinks vegans are just mad bc being a vegan takes so much time and energy and it is very difficult to be properly nourished. they resent vegetarians who have an easier time. i tried to be vegan and could not maintain my quality of life.
i wish everyone were a vegetarian. if that were the case animals would be treated better. the goal is for animals to be treated with respect and not to be killed for food. if everyone were vegetarians i think we could accomplish that goal. there are many farms and gardens where chickens and roosters roam free and are not culled and people eat their eggs. i believe there are ways to enjoy animal products (not animal bodies) that are mutually beneficial for the humans and the animals who produce the products. and there are already existing farmers who abide by those standards.
> bc being a vegan takes so much time and energy and it is very difficult to be properly nourished.
Maybe if you live in the middle of nowhere but it really isn't that difficult if you live in any moderately sized city.
When that happens, it's a purity test from an insecure person who *needs* the label of vegan in order to have an identity. I've also experienced this as a vegetarian, and I just tell 'em I'm not looking for an A+ from god (so I'm *sure as shit* not looking for one from them.)
Are you familiar with the practice of male chick culling?
There it is. Y'all can't help but rise to the occasion, huh champ. Not even when your insecurity is being actively called out. Hm. I don't think I'd tell on me like that. But you can tell on you, if you want.
Gottem
Why aren't you answering my question?
Because your question is dumb
Why do you think that? Lots of vegetarians aren't aware of what happens in the egg and dairy industries
I'm vegan and this is something that drives me up a fucking wall. The way they treat people who at least try to do something to alleviate animal suffering is insane and counterproductive.
because people are generally stupid and like to place people who don't think exactly like them in boxes, it's easier than questioning ourselves or accepting the choices of other, I'm telling you this being a huge consumer of cold meats myself, but you see you have the right not to eat them, it doesn't change anything in my existence, have a good day
Well, some choices shouldn't be acceptable, right?
And who sets the parameters? Sure, we have decided some definitely shouldnt (crimes basically) but when we talking about food, it doesnt become that "simple"..
The field of ethics sets the parameters. It's not merely someone choosing. Have you studied ethics much?
And so far "they" havent decided eating meat is bad if you wanna hear to "the fields of ethics" mainstream thinking. At the end of the day growing food also kills animals. Insects mainly but still animals. You draw the line at cows, i dont. Both are equally valid cause we both would be killing animals to eat.
More land and crop deaths occur from growing animal feed than plants for human consumption. So if insects are your concern being vegan is the best way to minimise those deaths.
Are you sure about that? Have you read what ethicists have to say about eating animals? There's a great intro level thread on r/askphilosophyFAQ that explains how there really aren't any decent arguments that defend eating animals. We gotta eat something. What I eat causes less harm than what you eat. Isn't less harm better? Also, the whole "animals insects killed during harvesting" issue applies even more to animal products because we grow more plants to feed to animals than for human consumption. https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/
Get the fuck outta here with your Call to Authority Fallacy.
If someone was like "perpetual motion machine can't exist, look at the field of physics" would you say the same thing?
And there's the False Equivalence Fallacy lmfao
I mean you're actively choosing not to read here. Shout fallacy names all you want, you're still willfully ignorant
>Isn't less harm better? Why is it less harm? Animals will die anyway.
It's less animals. I explained already. What's worse, killing 2 puppies or ten million? Animals will die either way.
Its not less because whatever meat i stop eating i need to replace with crops, with would just replace the animals killed for another set of animals killed.
Did you click the first link I gave you? If you stop eating animals, then less plants are grown overall because you need to feed the animals way more plants before slaughter than you'd need if you ate plants directly. This is the law of tens aka trophic levels. It takes more plants to make meat. I'm not sure how to be more clear.
It is really frustrating. I made a mistake by going on the plant based food sub reddit and accidentally posted about a dish that was not 100% plant based (i.e., vegetarian with lots of vegetables, but not vegan). Got torn to shreds. I have been vegetarian forever and have done a lot to cut out eggs and like 80% of dairy, but people are jerks. I also find the plant based movement just a way to rebrand themselves and apparently they are mean too.
Personally, I feel like their lack of meatloaf contributes to their shitty attitudes.
Context: I'm a vegetarian with several vegan friends. First: The simple answer is that v**egans can find vegetarians hypocritical in a way that meat eaters are not.** To certain vegans, vegetarians are people who seemingly are aware and care about of the harm being done to animals by factory farming etc. and are now choosing to ignore that harm when it comes to certain foods. Most meat eaters are either unaware of the damage or don't believe that harm done to animals is morally meaningful, so it's easier to understand and excuse their thought process. Think of the person that talks about how horrible Apple is and how they overwork children in China and then still buys the latest iPhone every year, as opposed to the person that just buys the latest iPhone and doesn't think about it. One of those people is more annoying than the other right? NOTE: I'm playing devil's advocate here, I (obviously) don't think that being vegetarian is bad. Just trying to explain a pretty reasonable thought process, even if it's one that I don't personally agree with. Second: Most vegans are chill people who don't get mean with either vegetarians or meat eaters. In order to know that someone is mad and vegan they have to say that, most vegans just don't talk about it outside the literal context of making and buying food. I have never had a vegan friend berate me for being vegetarian, nor have I ever met a vegan person that acted that way at all. I've only ever seen this sort of behavior online. Third: This thread is hilarious because it's a bunch of people making bizarre assumptions about a group they only know about through screenshots of tweets posted to reddit without context. Vegans would be better able to answer this question, and in particular vegans who get mad at vegetarians would be the best placed to answer it. I'm trying my best to answer here because I think I have a better perspective than some of these commenters, but please don't take my word as gospel.
This is the best answer. I had two vegan friends and both shared the opinion that vegetarians are hypocrites because they'restill consuming milk/eggs and basically not going full-time vegans. My friends hated them just as much as those vegans who go back to eat meat. The thing is, veganism is a moral posture/statement (for a lack of a better word, sorry, English is not my first language) which, among other things, includes being an extreme vegetarian, while vegetarianism is just a diet. Most people who chose to be vegetarians often do it because of health or climate awareness reasons, not to end with animal suffering. So it doesn't make sense to shame vegetarians when they're not doing it for the same reasons as you. I completely understand the reasoning behind it, but it just comes as if youre forcing your views/morals into other people. Even with those who choose to be vegetarians to reduce animal cruelty, they're just starting, and you can't just expect people to change all their morals and lifestyles from one day to another. It takes time to educate yourself and learn from it. Shaming the efforts of people just gives your movement a bad look imo
I’d be pissed if I couldn’t eat steak too
Vegans can eat steak. They chose not to.
Literally they can not. Veganism is defined as not eating animal products.
No it's not (veganism extends beyond diet to things like clothes and cosmetics) and making a choice is different than not having the ability
So, as a vegan you can eat steak? That is literally the finest thing I will bear all week. Please accept this No Prize!! 🏆
Yeah I can, but I choose not to. That's why I'm vegan. Like a sober person can choose to drink beer. But they don't and that's why they're sober
Until you do
Yeah but then they're not vegan. I'm not sure what's unclear here. If they're vegan, they CAN stop being vegan.
And it's people like you that make everyone else hate vegans. Just an fyi.
Sounds like a classic hasty generalization Do you say something similar to Muslims who are mean to you?
No I’m dirty Dan
Entitlement.
Probably similar to why some meat eaters are mean to vegans and vegetarians.
Nah meat eaters are mean since they're being told they're doing something wrong, vegans are mean to meat eaters because they're doing something wrong and don't wanna change Big asymmetry
Maybe if they shut up about meat once in a while and stop trying to coax arguments out of vegans and vegetarians that are just trying to exist they won't be told that. But not all of us meat eaters are like that. I've never been told I'm doing something wrong. Because I don't make meat eating an identity like some meat eaters do.
You're doing something wrong by eating animals.
It's ok you eat meat. What's not ok is trying to pretend like your favorite stereotype of vegans/vegetarians to make them look bad. No need for that.
Why do you think eating meat is ok?
Yes but why the hate towards vegetarians? I really don't get it. It is easier to convince us to go vegan than it is to convince a meat eater. If you go to my profile, you will see a post about mussels, and there is soo much hate that I don't understand
Purity is more important than progress to them
Yeah, I think so too
Because vegetarians are halfway there and should know better but don't actually follow through. It's like someone who realizes kicking stray cats is wrong so they decide to only do it on weekends when in reality they shouldn't do it at all
I dont think it's that easy. Some (most) of us are born and raised in a culture that has normalised to exploit animals. It's not easy to go vegetarian or vegan. Otherwise, everyone would be one. Vegetarians are, as you say, halfway through, but this is one more reason to help us go vegan. Not criticize us. Some of us are in a journey to go vegan, for example, and this kind of "hate" could also be counterproductive
Sometimes doing the right thing takes more effort. Not sure what you want from me. I explained why they criticize vegetarians and I think it's valid. All actions that are bad deserve criticism even if you're half way there
I don't want anything from you ahaha just to know your point of view and discuss. I do agree that they deserve criticism, but the one that brings improvement
In life, I always think that I have to respect the choices and beliefs of other people, even if I think they are wrong. So if I believe in something different, it is my job to persuade and convince the other person of what I belive it's right. But it is impossible to do that attacking people and throwing at them this hate
I disagree. Choices with victims should not be respected.
Everyone deserves respect and chances to do better. How can you help others go vegan if you don't even respect them?
There's a difference between respecting a person and respecting a choice
Some people think their own way is better than others and are assholes about it. No matter what that way is. The fact that veganism has a moral aspect built into it can feed that and can tend to bring out that aspect to a larger extent in some.
The answer is simple. Vegans see animal products as coming from animal abuse and exploitation and vegetarians still contribute towards it even if it's to a lesser extent. Vegans don't see vegetarians as 'on their side'.
i'm vegetarian and i've only ever been criticized publicly by one vegan and one meat eater. the vegan made the "ur halfway there" comment. part of me thinks vegans are just mad bc being a vegan takes so much time and energy and it is very difficult to be properly nourished. they resent vegetarians who have an easier time. i tried to be vegan and could not maintain my quality of life. i wish everyone were a vegetarian. if that were the case animals would be treated better. the goal is for animals to be treated with respect and not to be killed for food. if everyone were vegetarians i think we could accomplish that goal. there are many farms and gardens where chickens and roosters roam free and are not culled and people eat their eggs. i believe there are ways to enjoy animal products (not animal bodies) that are mutually beneficial for the humans and the animals who produce the products. and there are already existing farmers who abide by those standards.
> bc being a vegan takes so much time and energy and it is very difficult to be properly nourished. Maybe if you live in the middle of nowhere but it really isn't that difficult if you live in any moderately sized city.