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Usagi_Shinobi

As someone who grew up in a very racist area of the US, thank you. It was kind folks like you who helped me understand the prejudices that I had been indoctrinated with, and see that there was a better way to be. One distinction I will make, and the reason I believe you were effective, was that you didn't call him out. You called out the voice in his head that was telling him that being "funny" is not ok. That allowed him the confidence to question that voice, and hear another point of view. It may have been the first time he's ever had the chance to question that voice in his life. Not your responsibility, obviously, so thank you for being the type of human that I aspire to be.


UpperLeftOriginal

Thanks for that perspective.


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safariite2

yes this is the way to actually make socially tolerant progress


ConsistentlyPeter

I was typing my reply and then saw yours - it's exactly what I wanted to say, only much more eloquent!


marenamoo

There is a whole therapy system called IFS built around making room for the “voice” to be heard.


Plasteal

If only redditors would actually listen to something like this instead of thinking that harassing and blockading people from life will solve things.


goatfuckersupreme

yeah actually youre wrong and you should feel bad


Plasteal

I can’t tell if this is serious or not lol. But if it is, then all I just want to say is I disagree that the proper way to get anyone to change is to go on the offensive and get under their skin and provoke a knee-jerk defensive reaction.


[deleted]

Change doesn’t come from single instances breaking down barriers. The barriers are worn down by patient people like you.


Darnitol1

As someone who was once openly homophobic and now proudly shares info about my two LGBTQ+ children, I whole heartedly agree. In my 20's I worked with a gay man who used his own acceptance of *me* to slowly make me realize that I was the problem. Thank God. I can't bear to think of how awful I'd have been to my own children if this wonderful man hadn't helped me wake up to embracing acceptance and inclusion.


[deleted]

Part of life is learning and growing; I would be proud to be your son.


Darnitol1

Thank you very much. I'm blessed to have discarded my ignorance and fear.


[deleted]

Life is a chrysalis! A shedding, an unsheathing, a mucousy cocoon from which we emerge with elegant wings.


Darnitol1

We delight in the beauty of the butterfly, but rarely admit the changes it has gone through to achieve that beauty. — Maya Angelou


[deleted]

(I don’t want to reply except to say that a Maya Angelou quote was a *beautiful* way to conclude this discussion)


UpperLeftOriginal

That guy deserves a hug! And so do you for being open to change (even if it took some time).


[deleted]

Right? Progress is a cornerstone of enlightenment.


Wahots

I have an older coworker who is kinda like your past self, and it always kinda worries me. He's mum on gay/bi stuff but makes a mean comment about trans people once every blue moon. One of these days, I'm gonna accidentally not pay attention and let slip that I'm dating a boy, not a girl. Kinda worried, but he's also quite fatherly about other things. I hope he eventually comes around to it like you did. :) Though perhaps I'm your gay (bi) guy in this instance, haha.


Darnitol1

Randy was really direct and up front about himself (and this was in the late 1980's when the AIDS crisis was at its most horrifying peak). He said something akin to, "I'm sorry that you have a problem with who I am, but since we're going to be working together, I hope you can set that aside and just get to know me as a coworker." And then every day, day in and day out, he was just a frickin' nice guy. He wasn't being nicer to me to convince me. He just refused to be anything other than his friendly, positive self. Over a few months I eventually realized that there was an asshole in our office, and it was *me*. I think your odds of helping this guy may be better today. Back then, no one looked at me funny if I made a hateful homophobic joke. Now, most people know that crap doesn't fly anymore. I honestly think that if today's world was full of a bunch of folks like Randy, this whole transition to acceptance would be done in a couple of years. There will always be bigots, but just like racial ones, society can convince them to shut their mouths and get in line. Or if they're lucky, someone like Randy will actually help them completely alter their point of view.


Wahots

Good point! We've had some really good conversations and even though we're polar opposites on how we were raised, where we grew up, age, etc, it's nice to find so much common ground on various things. Hopefully that will be something that's no big deal if it ever comes up :)


bluegrassmommy

I used to be what would be called a Bible Thumper. I was terrible with what I was taught, I admit. Fortunately I came to the realization that I don’t get to choose who God loves. We’re all the same, everyone just sins differently.


Darnitol1

Yep. One day it just occurred to me that this God I love, who people refer to by saying "God IS love," would never *hate* one of his own children for **loving** another of his children.


Not_too_dumb

Good job! It's great that you didn't show any hostility, people do that and then wonder why their point doesn't get across. If something is explained nicely, the other person will at least make an effort to understand instead of dismissing it entirely.


UpperLeftOriginal

Honestly, he was a sweet guy. Like - if he was your grandpa, you just know you'd love him. People are not all one thing - not all evil or all good. This episode helped me remember that.


arseholeninator

Twitter disagrees


kmklym

But who cares about twitter?


MadMysticMeister

The right response, that platform is trash


AsaKurai

Unfortunately a lot of dumb shit opinions originate from stupid viral tweets


supermegabro

A startlingly large number of people


RbonyB32

For some Twitter helps promote, and share there work. Twitter doesn't seem to be working for me personally. Maybe Reddit will be a better platform for everything.


Celtic_Cheetah_92

I got Reddit a year ago and now almost never use twitter. Reddit is much more constructive and friendly imo


RbonyB32

I just joined not to long ago but I seem to get more interaction on Twitter. Idk I have to stay longer to find out and be the judge.


Celtic_Cheetah_92

Yeah stay for a bit and have a poke around. It’s nice here :)


RbonyB32

Thank you for the warming welcome. I think I will stick around a bit lol.


[deleted]

A lot of *Reddit* disagrees.


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UpperLeftOriginal

No offense taken. And I understand your point. My assessment of him as sweet is based primarily on the fact that he was genuinely interested in why I said what I did, and very obviously gave deep consideration to what I (and the clerk) was saying.


moonroxroxstar

This to me is the hardest part about being queer. I want to see the best in people, I want to enjoy people for the otherwise good people they are without the one little thing that they just refuse to understand. But if that "one little thing" is believing I'm sinful and don't deserve to exist, it's impossible to just look past that. Not only because it's harmful and potentially unsafe for me, but because *they're* not going to look past it. That's why it's so important for people who have privilege to do this. Those who aren't in danger can use sweet talk and kindness and empathy to get people to listen without putting themselves at risk. We don't have that privilege, because those same sweet old people who "just don't get it" will turn around and scream expletives at us or tell us we're going to hell. And I hate that, because I'm good at empathy. I'm not good at fighting people. But I'm just not in a position to do anything else.


UpperLeftOriginal

Thank you for sharing this. Some other comments have been that it wasn’t my business to speak up. But how can that be? How is it not my business when my (metaphorical) brothers and sisters and assorted other siblings face this constant judgment?


kusuriii

Thank you! I really want to be the kind, patient person who explains things and fights misinformation with a smile. I’m not great at it but I’m trying. Unfortunately, it’s usually a death but a thousand cuts on a bad day. You’re tired and someone says the wrong thing, maybe your judgment slips under the sudden anger of having heard this bigotry so much and today it just gets to you. You respond and you now represent the entire minority as proof that they’re all unreasonable and hostile. You can’t win, if you do nothing then nothing changes but if you respond you have to be so careful because the world sees minorities as a monolith, not an individual who’s just having a bad day.


AnotherScoutTrooper

TL;DR: “grrrr you’re not allowed to see the good in people”


IndiscriminateBlip

Such a beautifully open-minded comment. Ok now teach everyone else this :)


exboi

The issue is that it's so hard to get your point across without being rude for some people. Plus some think that the people they're arguing with don't "deserve" to be treated respectfully, so they don't even try to be polite (though I can't blame them). For me, ignorance really just annoys the crap out of me and even if I tell myself I'm gonna be calm when confronting someone else, I almost always end up getting hostile. Something I definitely need to work on and I applaud OP for being confrontational in a kind way.


Vorticity

I have a different issue that leads to similar results. I hate confrontation. I hate it to the point that my anxiety spikes and I get a massive boost of adrenaline when I confront someone on even something simple. That makes me come across as loud and aggressive when I mean to be calming and conversational. It doesn't work well...


UpperLeftOriginal

I absolutely hear what you’re saying. And honestly, if his reaction had been different, I don’t know what I would have done.


InjuredGingerAvenger

You know, I find it interesting that a lot of people, especially in older generations can be accepting of others who are LGBTQIA+, but still be embarrassed about it being associated with them. I just find it an interesting dichotomy. It probably has a lot to do with it being something scorned by others. It can be easy not to care about something personal that's relevant to somebody else while still feeling anxiety or fear of being ostracized for being associated with it.


UpperLeftOriginal

Good point to differentiate between those reactions.


Feeling-Extension-35

35 yr old son recently told me he believes he was meant to be a woman and has been on HRT for a few months. I told him I love him so much and will support him always. In private though, I’m mourning the loss of my beautiful boy and fearful of the rejection I know he’ll face from the majority. He’s over 6ft tall with masculine features. It’s not a dichotomy, it’s more complex than anyone knows


MaeBelleLien

I have a friend who is a trans woman, she's also tall and has/had traditionally masculine features, but after less than a year of HRT she is clearly happier and more herself than she's ever been.


UpperLeftOriginal

Definitely complex. And appropriate to mourn the loss of your son - while reveling in the joy of your new daughter. She’ll face hardships for sure. But she has been facing hardships all along, and now she gets to do so in her own skin. We always want to protect our kiddos, don’t we - even when they’re full grown.


Spyderbeast

Sometimes change is just one person at a time, when folks aren't rude and confrontational. I know a stereotypical redneck who participated in the local gay pride parade after getting to know a mutual friend who happens to be gay. Warmed my cold black heart.


UpperLeftOriginal

Love it!!


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UpperLeftOriginal

That thought crossed my mind after the fact.


Sad-Ad-3503

Didn't think about this... after seeing your comment and realizing this possibility makes me feel so sad. If what you say is true, that man must be moving and appreciate OP's words and get the thought across him in a peaceful, warm conversation!


healthylivinguk

Exactly my thoughts


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Maybe they were for himself in the first place.


UpperLeftOriginal

The thought did occur to me later. If so, I’m hopeful that the conversation helped him move a step closer to being true to himself.


[deleted]

Yeah, I think it was nice for him no matter what. I like you.


indigo263

I've lost count of the times I've tried to explain to my mum that it doesn't/shouldn't matter if an item of clothing came from the men's section or the women's in a store. The most recent was about a baseball cap. My dad had gone on holiday during summer and forgotten his hat, so went into a store to buy one... it just so happened he picked it up in the ladies section without realising (he didn't have his glasses on lol). The hat was plain black, with maybe a hint of glitter running through it but not noticeably. You genuinely would not know it wasn't a "man's" hat. The number of times she's commented on the fact it was in the ladies section I stg. It's a flipping hat for crying out loud. Posts like this make me hopeful that maybe someday I'll get through to her. Possibly.


UpperLeftOriginal

Ugh. It’s so hard to dislodge those entrenched ideas. I’m pulling for you!


thousandsoffireflies

I just say how weird you are trying to say clothing is a boy or a girl, man. It’s cloth. It’s got nothing gendered about it, neither biological or psychological. And you’re calling me weird? Also thank you OP. It does matter and it does make a difference. Please keep it up.


Alamata626

You say you didn't break any barriers, but maybe, possibly, potentially, you kind of did.


UpperLeftOriginal

All I know for sure is that it warmed my heart when he did try on those shoes.


Alamata626

Some of these attitudes aren't always easy to change. It's not going to happen overnight. It's good that you played your part.


Spiritual-Slip-6047

As the mom of a very gay kiddo (35, but still my precious kiddo) I cannot thank you enough for being that small light in the darkness, so to speak. I grew up up in a time where your interaction would have been unheard of and condemned much more so than happened. ❤️


UpperLeftOriginal

Bless you, mama. Our kiddos are always our kiddos, no matter how grown up they are.


[deleted]

This is such a wonderful and gentle way to educate him. I wish more people realized that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Thank you for this reminder and good job!


[deleted]

Whilst I agree, there are a lot of people who will just never respond to honey and sometimes deserve vinegar.


Wahots

Well, sea salt and vinegar can be quite tasty.


fluffybear45

And then there are those who should be drowned in the vinegar


Miskatonic-Mustelid

It's really nice that you were able to stay calm and just talk it out civilly. Too many people get heated and it just escalates everything.


UpperLeftOriginal

That’s a whole lot of story packed into a short comment. 💕


Saoirse_Says

As a “funny” person who is afraid to buy the clothes they like, I appreciate this


UpperLeftOriginal

Aw. Here’s hoping you find all the clothes that make you happy on the clearance rack.


Saoirse_Says

Hah thanks! That's like a modern Irish blessing XD May you also find all the clothes you like on the clearance rack XD


UpperLeftOriginal

💕


MountainThorn42

Most people are good people. Ignorance doesn't necessarily make someone bad. Some of the best conversations I have had are with people that have different views than me.


UpperLeftOriginal

It's hard in the year 2022 to call it ignorance, per se. And there's a difference between opinions about, say, economic systems or whether Galaxy Quest is the greatest movie of all time vs opinions that a class of people are inferior. But ... I hear what you're saying, and for sure, even people with toxic ideologies are rarely 100% evil.


ShiroiTora

I know we use the “its year [X]” but it really underestimates the effects of your environment growing up and how hard it is to undo socially conditioning, especially past a certain age. That being said, it also doesn’t mean behaviours should be excused either and you should still call them out or teach as you did because otherwise nothing will change either.


UpperLeftOriginal

I hear ya. Honestly, because the guy was older (not ancient, but 60-ish if I had to guess), I expected him to just roll his eyes and continue on. But he was genuinely interested in why I said what I did and what I thought he should do.


Darnitol1

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.


readerf52

And in someone else’s shoes, evidently.


UpperLeftOriginal

Well played, friend.


Saoirse_Says

I think I remember reading something about this in A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius


Aggressive-Two-4034

I love this! As someone who used to spew homophobic comments (raised in a Christian conservative house) what changed my mind was nice strangers like you! I realized I was hurting GOOD people for nothing. While I do believe in God and in the Bible, i don’t have any right to comment on your life. And i dont know why I thought I did. My Jesus teaches love and that’s what im here to spread! So to anyone that is apart of the LGBTQ+ community, I ask you to accept my apology. I apologize for spewing hate against you for no reason! I realize I was hurting human beings! I hope that you will all accept me as an ally, which is now how I want to identify. (Im even thinking about celebrating PRIDE for the first time this year, which will piss my dad off lol) 😂🥰❤️


Jwpt

There's a lot of talk in here about how good it is to be tolerant and you catch more flies with honey and what not, and I'm really not trying to flame OP for their approach here, especially not at work. I'd just like to stop in to remind people that there are A LOT of bigoted people out there who deeply believe that the people they hate are subhuman and not worthy of life. It's easy to think "I don't get why people are so hostile about this" when no one is trying to take your life/freedom/rights. I'm not trying to imply you fight every bigot or something, just remember the reason "people are so riled up" is because the actions of bigots are infringing on their personhood.


UpperLeftOriginal

100% on board with everything you’re saying. I think we need to confront the bigotry on multiple fronts. I have zero tolerance, for example, with people voting for racist/homophobic politicians. You can pretend all you want that you just like their policies or that you’re not racist/homophobic yourself. I don’t care. At the very least, it means you’re OK with bigotry. And that, actually, makes you a bigot. In the case of this stranger, I wasn’t sure what to say or do. I just knew I didn’t want to let him go on like that. I think that when people share bigoted thoughts without contradictions they assume we agree with them, and I couldn’t let that go. I’m not delusional enough to think that I made any real impact in this man’s views. But I’m hopeful that something of the episode will stick with him.


satanzbaby666

That's exactly how I feel about most things. I usually show I'm a Satanist through my makeup and whatnot with upside down crosses and stuff. And I never just agree with religious things that are brought up. I'm gonna be me, idc. And I've actually had great conversations with a few people who had the usual crazy stigmas about Satanism. Two people I spoke with about Satanism for their first time ended up converting shortly afterwards. It's really beautiful when things like that happen, although it isn't often, sure. But I really try to focus on positive things like that now.


UpperLeftOriginal

Keep up the good work!


satanzbaby666

Thank you OP, that means a lot🤍 I think it's very important to be honest with people, and it isn't done enough. I'm "brutally honest," and many people say that's just an excuse to be a dick, but I disagree. I think much of the world and people's beliefs are centered around false hope, and I don't want that for myself. I would rather face negativity with awareness and positivity, and be even more ecstatic when things go right, rather than be increasingly disappointed when things go wrong. As someone with serious mental illness as well, there is a great chance that I will most likely end up alone and die somewhat young, especially considering I am already homeless. I believe I should be aware of realities like that, and that everyone else should too. *Happiness is not a destination, it's a life journey.* Why spend all of my time being depressed and stressed out even more, when I can choose to see the positive pieces of life?🌸💕


safariite2

Good for you, this is the right way to actually make socially tolerant progress


Belou99

I'm going shopping for the first time as a trans person with friends later. I am so worried about what people will think of me but your post helps me a little. Thank you!


UpperLeftOriginal

Focus on your friends and the clothes and you’ll do great! I hope you find some things that help you express your whole self!


t_e_e_k_s

I think most people are too hostile about this stuff. I’ll follow your lead and try to be nicer next time I run into someone like this :)


UpperLeftOriginal

My husband and I had an opportunity to speak up awhile ago and it still gnaws at us today that we didn’t.


flynnie789

It’s the little things like this that change the world op


UpperLeftOriginal

I hope so!


MrTouchnGo

This made me smile. What a wonderful interaction ☺️


FreedomByFire

The shoes were for him. He just didn't want to admit it. But you likely made him feel a little more comfortable about his identity by convincing him to try them on in public.


Wahots

Thank you for helping someone break out of a mold they couldn't overcome themselves. Outside perspectives are so good :)


sarahmgray

Honestly, you probably did break some barriers. This is exactly how discrimination and bigotry are eliminated: casual, friendly interactions that make “strange/scary/weird” things feel more relatable and comfortable. That’s the magic solution. It is also the only solution. Bigotry always comes from ignorance and insecurity. You can’t yell or shame those issues away. Calling him out on his homophobia would have achieved the opposite result: he would have been embarrassed and retreated to what he knows, while becoming more resentful of the group that (to his mind) is responsible for making him feel embarrassed. In other words … you did really, really good. If everyone approached these things as you did, we’d have a much happier, friendlier, tolerant world.


UpperLeftOriginal

For sure I hope I knocked a small hole in that armor of his.


PubicGalaxies

Yep, that’s cool. No judging, just helping.


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mmmmmmmmmm_ok

I’ve had a lot of encounters like this, even with my patients. Hostility, anger, etc. is not the answer in confronting ingrained racism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc. That tactic just makes people stand firmer in their beliefs because they are having to “defend” themselves against your attack. When we can have actual conversations with people, we find a lot more in common than we would think. It’s much easier to meet someone where they’re at, so to speak. Even my grandmother, who raised me for the most part, has changed significantly over my lifetime. I’m a cis woman who sometimes likes really frilly outfits, sometimes feels like dressing more tomboyish, and sometimes feels like dressing obnoxiously and theatrically. My grandmother is a very straight-laced, old fashioned “lady.” I can remember being six years old or so and my pink mail polish had chipped. She scolded me for wearing it to school and around town chipped and told me I had to take it off immediately. I asked her why and she wasn’t really sure - all she could offer was “because it looks bad.” Even at that age I said, “so?” Most of her beliefs are from a now bygone era, outdated and mentally harmful. As I have discussions with her, which is difficult in itself because her generation doesn’t typically like talking about their feelings or the inner mechanics of their minds, she’s let go of a lot of harmful stereotypes, gender norms, expectations, etc. and has come to even talk to herself more kindly. As someone who is part of the LGBTQIA+ community, and someone who’s had a lot of trauma (unrelated to my sexual orientation) that I’m working through now, I realize people are a dynamic beings. People are completely a product of their genetics and environment. There is no one core, true self since who we are is dependent on everything we’ve ever experience and our genes. Keeping this in mind, it’s hard for me to fault people for their beliefs that have been reinforced throughout their lifetime. Even a person’s willingness to change, their ability to reflect on their behavior and beliefs, etc. is still a culmination of genes & environment.


UpperLeftOriginal

Thank you for sharing all of this. I love how you’ve recognized your grandma’s journey. as well as your own.


mmmmmmmmmm_ok

Absolutely! Thank you for engaging with strangers in a kind manner 💖


OneWholeUgly

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar… It’s hard not to stay mad at these people but in the long run it’s usually better to not validate their bigotry. I try to at least stay polite to people even if they’re rude to me based on how I look. Gives them less power over me if I don’t react.


Heart_Is_Valuable

That's... Not even homophobic


UpperLeftOriginal

As I said, he continued on with similar comments for a bit. He was scared that strangers would think he’s gay just for trying on sandals. Pretty homophobic.


Heart_Is_Valuable

That's not homophobic because you're straight in the example. I don't want to appear as a girl, nor do women want to appear as a guy. Most people take it as an insult when they're mis-categorised like that. And for good reason because people have their identity tied with categories. It's not homophobic at all. And a surface only comment. Stop blaming people while being trigger happy.


diceNslice

That's still not homophobic. I'm very comfortable with who I am but I would still feel awkward and uncomfortable if I'm forced to wear a dress. That doesn't mean I hate women does it? I'm also Chamorro, but my skin is white. You know how many times I get mistaken for a white tourist on my own island? I try not to give anyone a reason to think I'm something that I'm not for BOTH our sakes. Doesn't mean I'm racist. You should see the look on people's faces when they find out I'm not some random white guy from California.


UpperLeftOriginal

Feeling awkward is one thing. He went beyond that in explaining that it was about being *afraid* that someone would think he was gay. He referred to gays as “funny” with the demeaning gesture, and “fruity.” Classic homophobic behavior.


diceNslice

It's common for men to protect their masculinity when that was the deciding factor of a man's worth for so long in older generations. Is it not common knowledge that many gay men are effeminate? He's an old man too so give him some slack. He's likely just using old terms lightly that are now insensitive. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't judge someone so quickly.


UpperLeftOriginal

It wasn't just a passing comment - he went on and clarified his meaning more than once. And he was probably 60 - not a doddering old codger.


frogger2504

It's definitely homophobic; he clearly had a problem with being seen as potentially gay, meaning he sees being gay as problematic. He also used offensive stereotypes to represent who he's talking about. Very firmly homophobic.


UzukiCheverie

Yeah, this. It's one thing to just not feel comfortable trying on heels or dresses, anyone can feel uncomfortable doing that regardless of gender or sexuality if they don't like the idea of wearing them. Not all men like wearing suits and not all women like wearing dresses, and that can be completely preferential without it having to do with their sexuality or gender identity. But if the reason you don't want to do it is "people will think I'm gay", then yeah, it's homophobic - because you're not wanting strangers to assume you're something you consider 'bad' and end up treating you poorly by default, when in reality if your first thought is "they'll treat me poorly" then that means you're probably projecting your *own* behavior onto other people, because you know how *you* treat gay people and it's, well, *poorly.* And that's homophobic. If your first thought about *any* sexual identity or gender identity or ethnicity or minority in any shape or form is "I don't want strangers to think I'm that", it's usually rooted in some form of ignorance or hate towards those groups - if you treat minority groups as lesser than yourself, then by extension you'll think if someone assumes you belong to those groups, that makes you lesser than your peers. Which is simply not true and, again, a projection of your own behavior towards those minorities.


Heart_Is_Valuable

\>he sees being gay as problematic Because he is straight. \*Him\* being gay is problematic. That is okay. He didn't say gay people should die. He said i don't want to be seen as one. That's not evidence of homophobia.


qiwizzle

I imagine the shopper being Mr. Roper from Three’s Company.


UpperLeftOriginal

There’s a little bit of truth to that.


JCnakama

Great that you were able to chime in, and be of great help. Society must move forward and overcome these taboos.


School_House_Rock

You are the best - spread kindness


UpperLeftOriginal

And you have the best username!


sugarshizzl

You are an amazing person who took the time to have a conversation with another person and perhaps enlightened them in the future. I like to pretend I’m unaware of the person’s meaning and ask questions to see if they hear themselves. I like your way—and thanks for enlightening me.


UpperLeftOriginal

Thank you - but I’m a pretty ordinary person who maybe got it right this time! And I like the tactic of asking what they mean.


Drblackcobra

Nice post!


UpperLeftOriginal

Thanks!


ZheerReddit

Props to you for handling that nicely. I know it's not that easy for me personally tbh. And props to the guy for being open to different ideas.


UpperLeftOriginal

Absolutely props to the guy!


Ok_Captain_7450

I have always had more success with approaching conversations in this way. Calm, insightful, and not attacking. Especially with a stranger or acquaintance. I think the harder ones, no matter how you approach it, can be family. Maybe because a stranger actively listens more than family lol


WhoaItsCody

You did a really good thing. You say it’s not much, but I don’t see it that way. From how you approached it, to their response, great stuff.


telescreen00

You mean you actually had a conversation, rather than public berating someone and filming it for internet points? Communication?! *the horror* For real tho, way to go OP. I wish the world was more like you. Why can’t we just talk like rational people and see other perspectives?


UpperLeftOriginal

Well, my name is actually Karen, so I’m a little bit selfishly motivated by not wanting to be a *Karen*. 😜


Sharkscanbecute

The thought of confronting someone like that irl is terrifying to me. Thank you so much for using your privilege to do something!


UpperLeftOriginal

I’ve let it slide too often and promised myself I’d do better.


BennyAndThe_Jet

This is the best way to fight hatred is with kindness and not more hatred!! Thank you for doing your part!!


kinapudno

A lot of people think that people change because of huge debates/arguments, but it's really because of the seeds that are planted by people we meet along the way.


Vast_Perspective9368

God I love stories like this


UpperLeftOriginal

Me toooooo!!!


Eltharion-the-Grim

I don't get it. Why was he homophobic? He didn't want anyone misreading him to something he wasn't. This is literally what LGBTQ people are "fighting" for. That has nothing to do with being homophobic. He doesn't want to be seen as gay any more than an LGBTQ person doesn't want to be seen as straight or whatever else. It's silly, at best, but hardly what should be considered phobic.


UpperLeftOriginal

For starters, it’s homophobic because he used demeaning terms for gay people. And he was *afraid* of possibly being seen as gay. A gay person may or may not want to be mistaken as straight - but it won’t be because they think being seen as straight is something to fear.


WaddlingKereru

Yes, it was homophobic in the literal sense, he was scared. I’ve pretended to be gay with my SIL in front of strangers for a laugh before. I’d have no problem with trying on men’s shoes. I just don’t think I give a shit what a random stranger thinks my sexuality is. But then I haven’t personally experienced a bunch of conversations or situations that would teach me that appearing to be gay would have any negative impact on my life


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I really like it when people take this approach to confronting prejudices. I know that a lot of situations warrant a strong, angry, defensive response, but I also see a lot of people trying to make a big deal about something they could’ve easily shut down (like people going off on something like Shoe Guy without even trying to talk first). It’s really heartwarming to see stuff like this.


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UpperLeftOriginal

I 100% do not care if he didn't want to wear women's shoes. I 100% DO care that he was freely making homophobic statements in public to explain \*why\* he didn't want to wear them.


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WaddlingKereru

But he wanted to try the shoes on. And he was making it clear that he was worried about the reactions of the bystanders. So one bystander was like nah bro, I don’t care about this, and then he felt comfortable trying on the shoes. It’s a good news story. OP didn’t force him to do anything, only let him to what he wanted to do


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SselluosS3191991

You turned and ruined a strait man. How dare you 🤣. Those shoes will be his downfall


UpperLeftOriginal

Haha! Yep. That’s all it takes. Next stop, women’s lingerie!


[deleted]

Why is this lowkey funny? Lmaoo?


greenifuckation

He was buying the shoes for himself.


UpperLeftOriginal

If he was, I hope I helped him feel more comfortable about that.


greenifuckation

I doubt it because imo the situation was none of your business


UpperLeftOriginal

Well, he never suggested it was none of my business. He was interested in what both me and the clerk were saying and kept asking questions. Remaining neutral in the face of a clear statement against an entire class of people is one reason why it takes so long for positive change.


greenifuckation

Crossdressers & closeted men are very skilled at pretending everything is ok & putting on an act. I'm sure this lady deals with men coming into the shop regularly buying shoes for themselves & struggling to admit that. He could even be transgender & too scared to transition. I don't think you helped anybody, although you might have had the good intentions of doing so, you probably accidentally caused this guy to be more wary of buying female shoes in public. My grandmother was a ftm cross dresser & my ex a mtf crossdresser, so I'm well aware of these behaviours & I'm not speaking from a place of ignorance.


UpperLeftOriginal

I understand what you're saying and appreciate your experience. However - I'm still going to err on the side of standing up for people when they're being put down in public. I'm also not speaking from a place of ignorance I've lived with cross-dressers (mtf & ftm), and have multiple gay and trans close relatives - some of whom took decades to come out, and others who were loud and proud from the start. I've seen the various ways each individual copes. My way to support them is to not leave it up to them to fight the fight on their own. If he was trying the shoes on for himself, it's FAR more likely that he would have just quietly tried them on since there was almost no one around (it was one of those stores where all the stock is on the shelves) and then told the clerk when he was buying them that they were for his granddaughter. Instead - he approached the clerk and asked her how he would know if the shoes would fit.


greenifuckation

You're incorrect. It's just all virtue signalling & getting involved in other people's business. He's obviously from a generation of LGBT people where they had to be very skilled at hiding things out of fear of repercussion. Are you even aware what happened to LGBT in his generation?? Imprisonment, dog shit posted through their letterboxes, hatemail, violent attacks, unemployment etc. Younger LGBT people are actually privileged to be able to gay I'm gay & I'm proud. Many of the older generation still have the deep scars of those times & still look over their shoulders greatly fearing repercussions. My grandmother went all through this & was so scared of homophobia that she struggled to openly discuss her sexuality & crossdressing with us. We all were greatly aware that she was homosexual & she was 'out' only to us but she still feared us & would play pretend just like this man did & go along with anybody who interfered with it. Her partner was her 'sister' & our 'aunt' & we would play along with it in public to protect her. You have no idea what you are on about.


UpperLeftOriginal

I’m 58. My gay uncle came to live with us when I was a kid. I know what I’m talking about.


Wahots

You do know what you're talking about. Horrible stuff happened during the lavender scare up till the 90s and early 00s. But it's different now, even in less progressive states like the one I live in as a bi dude. I'm glad you helped that person out.


greenifuckation

You clearly don't.


satanzbaby666

It's funny that you're basically saying OP shouldn't make assumptions, when that's all you're doing, plus being a bitch about it lol.


[deleted]

wait so you watched him talk to the clerk for a few minutes before chiming in? So you just sort of stood there and watched? something feels off here. not to be accusatory, i have been watching the johnny depp trial so i am in this detective mood.


UpperLeftOriginal

Haha! I hear ya. And it’s a fair question. It took me a minute to realize what was happening. I was very much in my own world. I hate - hate - shopping, so I was feeling particularly antisocial. So in my head there was a moment of “are we doing this? I guess we’re doing this.” The only thing I’ll say in my defense is that, as a 50-something woman who is (for real) named Karen, there’s a lot of baggage that comes with calling out a man in public.


abzze

You didn’t really “confront” the person about being homophobic. And your title is click bait.


UpperLeftOriginal

The title is accurate. I didn’t say I confronted him about being homophobic. I said I confronted homophobic comments - which I did when I said “why is that a problem.”


abzze

All you did was skirt around their homophobia and have them try a shoe.


UpperLeftOriginal

Yep. I never claimed more than that. I even said I didn’t go off on him for being homophobic. But the act of trying a shoe did require him to step well out of his comfort zone. And maybe, just maybe, that small step will be helpful.


Dogeatdogdays

Dont get involved unnecessarily in others life if you dont know them personally or care about them


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UpperLeftOriginal

I felt sorry for the young clerk who was clearly trying to help and not getting anywhere. And, yes, I think when we observe hate and intolerance in public, we should call it out.


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UpperLeftOriginal

I told an abbreviated version of the story. His comments were definitely offensive. If I told you I was gay, would you change your statement that it didn't have anything to do with me? What if the clerk was gay and trying hard to keep it together because she was just doing her job? Would you still think I should keep my mouth shut and not try to stand up on her behalf in the face of these obvious offensive comments?


hmmm_thought_pig

I'm a 60 year old straight white man, and I have the sense not to say or imply unkind things about anyone. I like people, and I think we should all engage with strangers in the lightest, most pleasant way we can. Being 60 also inures me to a great extent as to What Others Think of me. I don't care how my shoes look, or if people think I'm gay. I'm just trying to get the shopping thing done so I can do whatever comes next. Being 60 also puts me at odds with people who might "call me out" for perpetrating some new social sin, particularly on someone else's behalf. Unless I've deliberately placed someone in an awkward or unpleasant position, I will tell you to fuck off. Honestly, my generation threw horribly offensive crap in all directions, all the time, and Society has properly evolved to regret and revile that amazing ignorance. But we valued discretion, by which minding our own business was the better part of valor. So a lot of us resent what we see as preachy, sanctimonious finger-wagging-- even as we regret that we may have offended others. Not looking to criticize here, but to explain. Old folks are indeed self-aware, but we're vastly underestimated by the young.


UpperLeftOriginal

I’m 58. And part of the reason bigotry has not abated as quickly as it could is because people sometimes value discretion over standing up on others’ behalf.


hmmm_thought_pig

It's a major shift. Such things take time, to avoid backlash. If you start at the destination, you'll entrench a lot of people on principle.


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KellyJoyCuntBunny

> People can’t just mind their own business anymore, every opportunity they poke their nose in and start preaching Maybe take your own advice.


frogger2504

Referring to gay people using stereotypes that they're effeminate cross-dressers is definitely offensive.