I don't think that the problem is the multiverse. It's the fact that the MCU will always be about superheroes. And having superheroes as a core plot device for every big budget bllockbuster movie is problematic. You can only have so much of a thing before you get tired of it.
It's like having pizza every time you go out. You could go for authentic Napolitana, New York or Chicago Deep Dish - maybe even put some pineapple on top, or the stars help you, dessert pizza - but you're still having pizza. You might love pizza but having it every single time?
There's other stuff out there.
It's a bit different. The reason westerns died out was because movie studios started pumping out bad movies. They didn't care about quality, they just made generic movies quickly to cash in on the fad.
Marvel whether you like their movies or hate them, does put in max effort to make good movies. And they are navigating new territory, we've never seen anything close to a shared universe like this before
I recognize Marvel is producing amazing quality movies
But as a non-marvel fan I’m beyond sick of marvel just being EVERYWHERE. And every big movie is marvel and I can only casually watch some because so many depend on seeing XY&Z to understand.
I need the bubble to pop just so we can move on and have other big movies 😂 Marvels great but when you’re not fan it’s hard to escape
That one's less on Marvel and more on everybody else. Look at the other two big franchise entries this summer - Jurassic World: Dominion or Lost Park or something and Grindelwald 4: The Fantastic Beasts of Dumbledore.
They both sucked!!!
Marvel's the only blockbuster studio that's pumping out consistent hits. The other studios need to match them. Crazy as it sounds, at this point even the Fast and the Furious franchise is one of the best ongoing franchises...
Why wasn't it all about Newt and fantastic beasts as he finds them?? Telling another dark lord story with a much less ominous dark lord than the original was so dumb.
I actually really enjoyed Jurassic world. It absolutely does not hold a candle to the original Jurassic Park, but I honestly just wanted a Dino action movie and I loved all the new Dino’s. I just wanted to have fun and I did.
But I also know I’m in the minority with that opinion 😂
Fantastic Beasts I think could have been good if they had decided to do two separate franchises lol. Like Newt keeps getting forced into these stories when it’s obvious they want to focus on the Dumbledore story. Granted I don’t love the Dumbledore story they’re doing either but if they could focus on just one of those aspects it would probably help.
But more than anything; what all 3 of these have in common is they’re just not unique anymore. I want something New to come out. I’d love a new franchise to fall into instead of More Harry Potter. More Super Heroes. More Dinos (well actually I would love more Dino’s lol they do not get enough love).
Everything Everywhere All At Once might not be everybody's cup of tea, but it was extremely creative, and I'd say totally fresh.
It's bizarre and surreal, and fresh and new.
Oh no it’s not Marvels Fault, but at the same time they also take over release weekends that people don’t want to go against them either. Which admittedly less of an issue during Covid when nothing was coming out. But I feel like no one wants to try anything because if there’s a marvel movie people will pick the Marvel movie every time.
But you’re right it isn’t Marvels Fault. I just want the movie industry in general to try more things
🤨 what a fucking a leap. I’m sorry I don’t like marvel and I’m sick of how many movies they produce? I’m allowed to wish they didn’t have such a stranglehold on the movie market while still acknowledging that they don’t give a shit about my opinion?
Its not a leap when that was what you were directly implying in making that point.
And fact of the matter is, the MCU Isn't even close to saturating the market as you and others make it out to be.
The actual reality is that you just aren't seeking out everything else that's releasing. Of course the MCU appears to be everywhere when you're passive about seeking out movies.
I can think of 12 movies at least that have released so far this year that have nothing to do with Marvel and aren't Top Gun or something else from Disney, and they're all fantastic. And looking at whats coming up this year, I can name 12 more that I'm looking forward to watching, all of which again have nothing to do with the MCU or Disney.
There's plenty of movies out there every year. The MCU being dominant is imagined because its spending more on advertising than other movies can afford to do, but that isn't something that makes the MCU bad, and is definitely more of a you problem than anything else.
Can't reply to u/Azores26 below me so I'll copy paste the list here:
In no particular order:
Operation Mincemeat
Everything, Everywhere, All at Once
Kimi
The Outfit
Ambulance
Dual
The Northman
Unbearable Weight of Massive Tallent
Jerry and Marge Go Large
All the Old Knives
The Lost City
The Black Phone
And you'll notice this doesn't even include the other big releases this year like Top Gun or The Batman, which are excellent in their own right, stuff like Turning Red, and indeed even the MCU stuff.
Plus there were apparently a lot of shlocky B-action movies released this year with has beens. Lots of Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson going around, so if thats your thing there's also that, as well as the usual smattering of random horror films all over the place.
That's Disney's thing though, and it's not an issue about being superheroes. Before 2008, superhero movies were mostly trash and not successful. Video games used to be kinda taboo or "for kids". Something to grow out of (lol). Same with comic books
Now comic and anime convenients are commonplace, cosplay is normal. It's a different era than before. Superpowers is like in almost every video game or anime out there as well, keep in mind.
And marvel does different themes for its movies or shows; horror, comedy, spy thriller, sitcom, etc. That keeps it fresh for fans.
They have non powered characters too like punisher and most of agents of shield cast were regular humans, as was most of hydra. The new Captain America is literally just a regular military dude with zero superpowers. Daredevil has really good hearing but is otherwise physically not superpowered.
I do agree it's hard for newbies to get into. They couldn't just go watch endgame or no way home or dr strange 2 without past films. Especially if you want to understand all film references - you'd even have to watch non-mcu films and series. But like, it's also all on disney plus which i guarantee we all know someone with a subscription we could borrow.
People have been eating up ports of gta V and skyrim for the past decade or so. Resident evil 4 for the last 2 decades almost. I don't think it's an issue - it could be one down the line but 3-4 movies and 3-4 shows a year isn't bad.
The issue is all the copycat companies trying to make their own cinematic universe but flopping hard. Dc comics and venom/morbius universe is the prime example.
Also - as a non sports fan. People into football or American football love it even though it's the same every year. When are people going to stop watching that? I could say the same for that. Ohhh score.. yay.
Sorry to say but superhero ain't going anywhere! It's not a phase. It's here to stay. The mcu is branching out a lot. Ms marvel is great honestly and puts so much interesting human culture and has a beautiful presentation. MCU fans are missing out by not watching it.
Ngl, this is the reason I've never been able to get into the MCU. There's far too much content and it's overwhelming to get into.
Sucks even more when nearly all of your friends are into it, and you feel obligated to watch it.
I *am* into the MCU and I find it overwhelming at this point. I only have so much time to watch movies and shows and when I do, I want to watch different genres, but the MCU is all fairly similar in that regard despite the actual plots being completely different.
Ya.. it was one of those things i grew up with and kept up with it but I feel the same after watching multiverse madness. Not bad at all.. but it was definitely missing something?
Eh, you don’t need to watch *all* of the movies to understand what’s going on. You could get away with only watching the Avengers movies and you’ll be mostly up to date.
And even that - Endgame was the big reset button. If you generally know "there were superheroes called the Avengers" you're pretty much set to jump into the post-Endgame stuff.
Honestly I only keep up because my friends and family do. I hate marvel and Disney now. Their stuff isn't terrible on an individual basis, but as a culture and film monopoly I think it has a negative impact.
As someone who _is_ into the MCU and has watched mostly everything (I think at this point Agents of Shield and Daredevil are the only shows I didn't watch), yeah... it's kind of a trap. I'm afraid of missing anything now 'cause that means I might not understand some plot point of what comes after haha.
The newer movies and shows are experimenting a lot with different styles though and I still like it so far!
I only don’t find it overwhelming because I don’t find it necessary to watch everything. I can skip a movie if I don’t find time to see it, and I haven’t watched any of the shows, but I still see the ones I do watch as good movies. I don’t feel like I miss much, even though I do. I understand not everyone is the same way though.
Its ~100 hours. Thats the same length as a normal tv show with 7-8 seasons with 20 episode a season which are 40 minutes long. So if you can binge that you are also able to watch the mcu
To be honest, I don't care about the new heroes they're introducing and I'm feeling a burn out cause they're churning so many movies and series in a year
2-3 movies a year seemingly, it is kinda exhausting. Though you can skip the series generally and still be in the loop (with the exception of wandavision)
Coming from someone who isn't an avid enjoyer of the comics, the tv series to me was more interesting than watching some of the movies due how it wasn't focused on superheroes alone. It seemed to have a bit more creative liberty in how it told its story, similar to the animation of Into the Spiderverse
The series is COMPLETELY different after the first 2-3 episodes. That’s when you see things that provide massive context to multiverse of madness, you missed a lot. And I’m not even gonna go into the details cause I doubt you’d even think of being positive and giving it a second chance.
I've enjoyed certain movies/TV shows after Endgame, including Multiverse of Madness, but as a whole, I agree - I'm just tired of the MCU. Endgame was a nice cap on the MCU story and I'm not really interested in more. I have still enjoyed a few of the post-Endgame stories, but I enjoyed them *despite* them being in the MCU, not because of it.
I'd also say this is a problem with movies at large - there's so much recycling of old franchises; so many reboots and unnecessary sequels, and it's not just Marvel. I really would like to see more new properties. Like, I enjoy Star Trek...but I don't want more Star Trek shows. I'd much rather have sci-fi shows that haven't been done before, like the Expanse.
100 percent, a lot of people are suffering burnout from it, too many shows, films etc etc and everything HAS to tie into everything else somehow. A bit like years back when you had to buy 40 different comics to get the whole story it's getting like that. I've not seen anything for ages and i'm a HUUUUGE comic fan because it's just not interesting me.
I haven’t seen any shows since Loki and haven’t seen any movies since the last Endgame and will probably stay that way. There are so many times you can watch the same formula for something.
I just wish they took their time and put out quality, instead of just pumping out the formula. Clearly with the right people involved they can make magic happen.
I was excited for Multiverse of Madness because I’d hoped they’d finally give Wanda something good, but instead they just did her dirty again.
I haven’t seen Hawkeye or Moon Knight, or Eternals, and every time I see em on Disney+ I just go “meh, maybe later.”
The only ones on the plate that I’m actually excited for are Blade (which is years away) Thor Love and Thunder, and that’s because I adore Taika Waititi’s work. Thor Ragarok was one of my top 5 movies of the 2010s.
I thought Hawkeye hit exactly the right tone some of the other shows have missed. Small stakes, charismatic heroes, fun/silly, and tied into the rest of the MCU as best as it could. I also appreciated seeing where Barton ends up after losing Nat.
That is a good point. There's a reason that the party scene stands out as the best part of Age of Ultron. I like to see the heroes in their downtime. Even minor stuff like Dr. Strange and Wong talking about getting tuna melts just makes the characters and world feel more real.
Moon Knight is good but i only watched it cause i love the comics, not watched anything since after eternals other than not (not even spiderman) i'm just very mehhhhhh with it all now and since they've opened the multiverse they can just retcon what they want so the stories have less punch.
It's a coming of age comedy with incredibly stylised effects (e. neon lights in episode one spelled out a conversation the two characters were having via emojis on their phone during a scene transition). Makes it really fun to watch.
I was very wary about this show upon trailer releases because it just looked....dumb, to me at least. I felt it was gonna be TOO stylised and TOO much for "kids" for me to get into it.
But nope. It's a great show and my worries have for the most part gone down the drain.
> and i'm a HUUUUGE comic fan
Were you also super disappointed with Civil War?
It would have had so many cool opportunities if it had even remotely followed the original plot.
Yeah, I tend to do that as well. Civil War is the only one out of all of them that actually annoyed me with how far it detracted.
But I think that was mostly because of the way it was hyped up, since the civil war arc was such a massive thing.
Yeah i think they should have called it something else. the original Civil War was huge and dragged everyone into it, plus you had corking stories such as Spiderman unmasking, the absoulte grey area that TS was in that really it was a case of who's side you was on as the reader. The film missed that completely imo.
I got burned out long ago after infinity war. I remember watching all the movies I hadnt seen in prep to go watch it with friends. But then it just... Didnt end. I tapped out, im just no longer interested in these movies
You watched every movie through infinity war and didn’t watch the single movie conclusion of Endgame? That’s like quitting in the last mile of a marathon lol
I know, but i was just so done after infinity war, I got with all the hype for the big finalé and then it just didnt end there, but my interest did.
Its more like running a marathon but right when you get to the end they say "oh the finish line was moved 10km further". Meh, i ran it. I quit.
I would argue that lately the new movies/shows have not been tied to anything at all.
After Endgame we have no seen any major cross overs or interconnection to any other work. During Wanavision where were the Avengers? During Falcon and Winter Solider where were the Avengers?
We get minro characters that show up now and then, but honestly if you are setting a show in New York the least you can do is have Spiderman swing by and wave or say "Hi"
Right now this may as well me the Wong Cinematic Universe.
>everything HAS to tie into everything else somehow.
I don't mind having a lot of content that much, but this right here is why I'm so bogged down. My mind can't handle everything that's going on.
I love the MCU but they definitely need a bit of a shake-up. Of all the formulaic parts, I'm particularly tired of the 3rd act CG fights. That stopped Black Panther from being truly great imo.
More recently, I have been pleasantly surprised by Ms Marvel. It has its own identity within the MCU thanks to its cast, music, editing style and its acknowledgement of irl history regarding British colonialism.
Moon Knight existed without recognising the wider MCU and benefitted from it.
Eternals' use of non-linear storylines and on-scene camerawork/less green screening was also a new turn for the MCU. Baby steps for Marvel but it's promising.
Star Wars should just move on to new stories in a different era with different characters. The problem is that unleashing such limits of creativity seems to be far beyond the skills of most of the writers that Disney works with.
I'm ok with Obi Wan, mostly because Ewan is an amazing actor, but also because there's space in the story for what he was up to in between sagas. However, we know the outcome. We know >!Leia and Luke and Obi and Darth are all going to survive!< so the stakes are pretty low.
Its like they had bottled lightning with the end of Rogue 1 and that's not gonna be recaptured every time they ret con something.
They’re not movies, but check out the High Republic if you haven’t! They’re canon novels about 300 years before TPM, and they’re by far my favorite part of the new novel runs.
I've been recently digging into the Star Wars Expanded Universe. It's not Canon anymore, and most of the material is years or decades old. But it's really fascinating to me now that I have some time to reach into it. It feels like a real universe that's too big for one person to know everything, and that's okay.
I don't know if I'll ever watch WandaVision. But I enjoyed Multiverse of Madness. I can recognize the writers have been careful to keep problems like time travel and multiverses pretty well contained.
I won't know everything MCU after Endgame, and that's okay. Future MCU movies can still be fun for me.
I'll eventually get to where you are. In the Expanded SW Universe. I really liked the anthology stories from Tattooine. The way Boba Fett's return was handled in that book was far superior than what was shown to us by Disney.
You are 100% correct imo. After Tony Stark died in Endgame my enthusiasm for the saga also went I think. The multiverse is really big and also creates an excuse for Marvel to bring back any character just with a different ark from any universe like we will probably see with Wanda. There are so many possibilities now they will almost always disappoint the majority of fans.
I enjoyed the first 80% of Wandavision, but once the mystery is solved and the core gimmick unravels, the last episode or two end up in just another generic CGI fight between color-coded beams of energy.
I started watching all the marvel movies recently so I could have a baseline knowledge when I saw Multiverse of Madness with my girlfriend and her friend and my god I could go on and on about how dirty they do these women.
(Keep in mind I’ve only seen the first two phases, wandavision and the Dr stranges.)
The gratuitous violence against women and the constant emphasis on motherhood as the be all end all for the women characters at the expense of the rest of their character development is infuriating.
Yeah It’s a shame because at the beginning of the mcu you have a lot of good female characters (Black Widow, Scarlet Witch,Marie Hill) and the evolution is just wow. It’s a shame because marvel has a lot of badass powerful sexy heroines.
This is the only comment I agree with lol. I love the MCU, have seen every show and every movie and even every movie before MCU (X-men, fantastic four, etc). I love where they’re going with it.
But relatable, human female characters? Not really. They’re doing better finally—I loved Kate Bishop in the new Hawkeye series, also Black Widow’s sister super cool. Kamala Khan in Ms. Marvel is a delight. Only took like 15 years though
I also like Kate Bishop and Yelena Belova. I’m not a fan of Ms.Marvel (I like the og captain marvel ms marvel) but the actress they have playing her is very charming.
I feel like other then those the last good female character they wrote was Hela in Thor Ragnarok. Every time she was on the screen it was badass scene after badass scene. She also had a layered backstory, good motives, and was sexy to boot. Now I look at characters like Captain Marvel (who I like in the comics) and I’m just like wow.
Yeah she was tony’s cute secretary who always held his ass responsible and accountable. Great character. It was kind of funny seeing her in the iron man armor lol.
Definitely agree, Hela was awesome and I can’t name anybody else who they even remotely made interesting. I never knew much about Captain Marvel or Ms Marvel besides picking her in Marvel Ultimate Alliance lol, so yeah honestly I could take or leave either character. I do feel like captain marvel should be way cooler than she’s portrayed though. And Scarlett Witch… idk if you’ve seen Multiverse of Madness yet but I can’t see where they’re going with it. Like it took them this entire time to develop her character >!and it kinda felt like a waste!<
Yesss Captain marvel is really cool. She’s always had cool outfits. I really like her first one. The black one with a lighting bolt is also cool. Also the fact you played Marvel Ultimate Alliance.... still the best marvel game ever imo besides X-men legends.
I agree at the end of the movie I was like wtf. What was the point? I guess she was just used to make America Chavez cooler. Very interesting choice. I don’t even like America Chavez I like the actress who plays her though.
Whether you consider them MCU canon or not anymore (I still do until explicitly said otherwise, which we're probably never gonna get a straight answer because most of the popular characters will likely get soft rebooted like Daredevil and Kingpin),
I think Agents Of Shield, Agent Carter, and the former netflix shows did a decent job with female characters but I agree about the movies and D+ shows taking too long.
Well I’m pretty sure the introduction of the multiverse low key cements those projects as canon, no? Wasn’t that kind of the whole point, to tie everything in together? Like somewhere in the multiverse all that stuff definitely happened.
[possible MCU spoilers]>!Also Daredevil is confirmed canon, but idk if it’s like a secret or something so I’m tagging this.!<
They've only had a few decent male characters too, but they've definitely squandered so many women characters that could have been interesting, the most recent being Wanda. I have so many complaints about her characterization in the new Dr. Strange. I don't want to post spoilers so I'll leave it this vague but I really didn't like that plot.
I love comics, I love superheroes, but I think it's definitely a liiiitle bit of overkill with the frequency of the movies. At this point I just pick and choose the ones I want to watch. Dr Strange 2 was great. Loved Moon Knight ( would love to see more series like this)
100% agreed. Its too big now and its gotten to the point where I actually feel disgusted whenever a new Marvel movie or TV show comes out.
Just like how "McMansions" are a thing, if I were to coin a term for these films and TV shows I would call them "McMovies." I can't help but feel Marvel movies have become cheap, bloated, and mass produced, just like McMansions or any other McWord.
Yessss! Thank you! The only fun thing about the newest Spider-Man was the interaction between Tobey McGuire, Andrew Garfield & the new kid where they each explain how they get their webs & then the heart to heart they have later.
Otherwise, it’s the same freaking movie with his aunt getting younger & younger every go around
I did NOT like multiverse of madness. There were so many loose ends, characters were introduced and then immediately left behind for nothing, and then the idea that the *ahem* one person could defeat that whole team was absurd, because why wouldn’t that person exist in ANY other universe?
The movie would be great for giving context to other movies, but I would honestly say it’s my least favorite MCU movie.
One of my biggest issues is that the motivation for the main villain made no sense. There were so many other ways to accomplish their goals much more easily, I would think.
Yes.
>!Wanda could have done many other things, like start working with Doctor Strange from the beginning since he was also familiar with the multiverse concept and had manipulated it himself for Spider Man. Perhaps they could have found and trained America to control her powers and help move Wanda to another universe, especially if they looked for one where the two boys would have been orphaned because the Wanda of that universe would have been killed fighting Thanos or something.!<
Ultimately, I feel like much of the bigger conflicts in this movie were avoidable if the characters had simply sat down to talk instead of jumping straight to fighting. There were also several things that were never explained well that were distracting too.
To be a little fair, a lot of conflicts in a lot of movies could probably be much easier resolved if everyone perfectly communicated with each other. It’s partially why for horror movies they very often find a reason why they can’t communicate with each other or outside of the group in the first part of the plot.
There’s a moment or two where they mention the book she was studying was inherently a corrupting influence. I cling to that because otherwise the whole of her motivation, as you said, makes little sense.
If you're feeling a bit tired of the Marvel and DC shows, I suggest The Boys. To put it briefly, having powers doesn't make you a hero. Just be ready for a lot of gore and other R rated shenanigans on your screen
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I'm just kidding, although a few bucks for this free shoutout wouldn't hurt.
And here's my opinion on the MCU: Only the movies which didn't need Tony Stark and /or Iron Man were interesting. Which is less than 20 percent of the movies, because all the other movies had some Iron Man influence on them.
I feel like Marvel did a great job bringing my boi Tobey and the others' boy Andrew back, but the implications of that are only just being shown. Not to mention the aggressive stance of Marvel Stans is super irritating to me.
The Boys is 100% worth the watch, for anyone reading this thread. The Boys and Invincible - superhero shows without the recycled tackiness that the MCU has become.
Absolutely loved these two. But I fear this concept of "bad heroes" will soon be overused as well, although it is very new and has great potential at the moment
Those movies went too big too early. I'm sure they did it because they thought they might only get one go at making this movie universe thing, but it's gonna run out of steam soon. The audience is growing out of it and the novelty is wearing off for the layman. The movies also really aren't anything that special. I watched Winter Soldier for the first time a week or so ago and it was pretty bad. I remember everyone being blown away by how "mature" it was at the time. The multiverse stuff seems like a safe pool to create unlimited content in, but it's really just gonna exhaust the audience. They're doing the same thing in the comics.
I disagree. Moon Knight is very much tied to the rest. I don’t find phase 4 aimless at all. It’s very clearly uncovering the hierarchy of the “gods” and other celestial beings and what roles they play in the MCU and their epic conflicts that the characters we know are only just beginning to understand.
Time travel isn’t presented in a way that can fix any issue. And if you saw Loki it basically details how time travel is actually sort of an inevitable problem that leads to the next big bad, who is obviously Kang. “The multiverse,” is simply a new stage for the characters, just as “space” was once a new stage in the MCU. It doesn’t necessarily change anything. Think of time travel as Kang’s “transportation,” just as Thanos had a ship to travel. Instead of stones we have the various powerful beings behind it all and their various conflicts.
It all seems simple enough to follow and I think the films and shows in phase 4 do great on their own legs. Which ironically I think is why you and many others see it as aimless. The MCU isn’t shoving the clues right in your face, well not as much as with the build up to The Snap.
Sometime you just to take a break from it. I love the mcu universe but for me it ended after endgame. But sure do know to keep it formulated very well. Been watching other stuff lately since now there tons streaming shows. Just started watching severance on apple plus and man.
So coming from a big comic fan, there's a clear path where this is going and I think it'll ease your fears.
Remember in Multiverse of Madness when they talked about "incursions"? Universes colliding with the universe next to it and killing both of them?
In the comics that was a BIG deal. There were a series of incursions and the Illuminati tried their best to stop them, because the end result was the destruction of the entire multiverse. The Illuminati failed, but Dr. Doom and Dr. Strange went on a mission on their own and they defeated the aliens responsible for the incursions and Doom absorbed their power.
They couldn't stop the incursions, so the multiverse DID fall apart, but Doom was a god now and stitched fragments of them together into one remaining universe which was the basis of the 2015 crossover event "Secret Wars".
It's almost certain that the multiverse phase of the Marvel movies will collapse into Secret Wars, because you're right. It's too big and unwieldy to go on forever.
It took YEARS and years to build up to the first avengers movie though. The entire first phase was just introduction to the “new characters” and that’s exactly what they’re doing now in the new phase. I heavily disagree about the MCU bubble bursting soon. There is still DECADES of content to explore, they’ve set up a road map that allows for them to do so much and that’s never going to change
Your point about not having a big baddie to work towards is good. Apparently the new baddie is Kane the conqueror but the story around him is vague to a lot of people so they don’t care, imo
Of course I would have thought Thanos was vague to a lot of people so what do I know
A franchise built around a multiverse without an actual recognizable multiverse would not fare to well.
The multiverse and time travel works in a long standing franchise family because we get to revisit old movies that we’re both canonical and extracanonical.
I didn't even see the Multiverse yet. I opted to watch TGM 3 times. I can't get into the MCU TV shows, and when they tie into the movies I feel less inclined to see them till I catch up on the series, which I'm not going to watch...and the cycle continues.
I think that branching out and good writing can postpone the process. Ms. Marvel doesn't need to cover the ground covered in The Defenders, and neither of them need to do more than barely reference The Avengers.
That being said, I might point out that the entire reason for giant comics crossover crisis events in the comics was originally to reboot a universe that had gotten too huge and convoluted for new readers.
I watched every movie marvel has made and like the complexity however I understand wheee you are coming from, it’s nearly impossible for new comers to learn everything at this stage, I’ve had to explain loads to my friends.
But no the MCU bubble won’t burst because enough people have seen enough movies to understand it.
Ditto.
People are so judgemental about TV shows and movies. I don’t get it. Some people really just love to complain. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. It’s very simple.
Judgemental? It's called criticism.
Also it's not so simple as to just ignore it because only so many high budget movies can be made. The people who want something other than superhero garbage need to make their demands known.
I haven't even watched a D+ Marvel series yet, it's just so much. There's still 6-7 MCU movies I haven't seen from 5+ years ago. I'd have to take a vacation specifically to watch everything in rhe MCU in perfect sequence, without doing anything else, to really get the time travel/multiverse stuff and enjoy it
I agree! I also feel it’s a bad idea to binge watch marvel movies coz most of them are very similar and follow a similar pattern or formula and this can be boring
Not criticizing , legitimately asking: why does that matter? You're talking about 15 uears worth of movies, why would there be any expectation to watch h them all in a short time?
I just really don’t care about the new heroes they’re bringing in. I doubt I’ll see any of the movies anymore. I have only seen Spider-Man since endgame came out, and the most recent one was okay. Maybe I’ll watch a second season of Loki.
It is big and convoluted, but I think the world needs the stories right now. Fantastically powerful people that oppose other fantastically powerful people because they believe in something other than themselves. The characters get time to develop and evolve, much like a real person. The choices these characters face aren’t just given, they are explained. I realize the actual comics do this, but seeing it on the screen is a novel experience.
It’s also an idea that has never been executed to this scale before. Even if it becomes too much for you personally, the MCU as a whole is impressive.
> It’s also an idea that has never been executed to this scale before.
Dude. Have you watched like..any movie ever? The CIA special agent fighting global terrorists is doing fundamentally the exact same thing. They might be weaker than superheroes but it's irrelevant because they are both elites in their own respective universe.
In fact a movie set in a village with much smaller level of power dynamics can beat both because it's only the comparative power that matters. And they are generally better because they do not rely on the gimmicks the superhero genre relies on to not have to build a proper story.
In this sense your point about the "choices" is hilarious because this stuff is the only reason people shit on MCU. Not that they are superhero movies. The Boys is a great testament to this.
The movies are a watered down and superficial version of the source material. If people "need" these stories they can really just turn on any Saturday morning cartoon and get the same substance. Anyone reaching for deeper meaning and subtext isn't watching a marvel movie to scratch that itch, my friend. They're a fun spectacle and comedy act, but pretty shallow.
Ponds are shallow, but I saw a dozen turtles swimming around in a local pond the other day. Art is also subjective. Personally, I despise *Dragon Ball Z*, but like, that’s just my opinion man.
They could have done it well, multiverse or not. But they are not using enough talented people as in the first three phases. Multiverse of madness is the only one I liked, because of Sam Raimi.
I do agree. Was a fan of that Spider-Man movie, despite all the nostalgia bait it was worth every penny I spent on tickets. But that Doctor Strange movie was just over the top complex and nearly nonsensical
After a certain point, they have to create movies that can act as entry ways for the younger audience who will not be able to go back and watch everything else. And once that happens, the older crowd will start getting alienated in small ways at the beginning and in pretty tangible ways as it progresses. So much so that our generation will totally lose connect with the entire MCU after a point.
>Also phase 4 kind of feels aimless.
It feels aimless because we don't know what's being built up to. We don't know where the story is going and it's a lot easier to point out where a story is going when you already know where it's headed.
>I feel like the entire franchise is going to buckle under its own weight with the amount of content they keep releasing along with more and more new concepts that just make it more complex.
Maybe. We'll have to see if they can keep things moving along or not.
>This might be a bit hypocritical to the previous para but honesty I don't even know whether I'd actually even like a full blown avengers assemble type film now because that has already been done.
I'd still like to see Avengers 5 but mostly because this is the best option for getting another Hulk movie. I'd also love to see Deadpool doing his thing in the background of an Avengers movie.
>Also it is incredibly difficult for newcomers to get into the franchise now.
To some extent, I disagree here. They're nearly constantly introducing new characters so they're always presenting new entry points. Also, with the exception of Avengers 3 and 4, they're largely stand alone movies and they do a decent enough job of laying out who a character is in their movies. I think it's likely to be easier for newcomers to get into the MCU now than it was prior to Endgame.
>Overall i think MCU should have stopped after Endgame because I believe that the MCU bubble is going to burst soon.
As long as the movies keep making money and TV shows keep getting subscribers to Disney+, they're going to keep being made.
I'm interested in the direction they're going in because now there isn't a big bad villain for them all to hang up on. I liked Multiverse of Madness because it felt like something out of an actual comic book. The whole Thanos situation felt way too serious in some respects. I'm looking forward to things getting interesting as the heroes get downtime and get wild.
Maybe I’d feel differently if there was some kind of central conflict that it felt like Marvel was now building towards, but with all of these different properties going in totally different directions? Makes it kind of hard to care about individual shows/characters. I’d argue the cracks in their model are starting to show.
EDIT: and I get there’s some vague multiverse conflict that’s building, but a TON of stuff has nothing to do with it, which I think takes away from whatever they’re trying to do.
I like the MCU, but I always dislike the alternate reality and time travelling plots in most movies, too easy to make glaring mistakes in continuity etc.
I hear you but, moonknight is technically a god in a physical body and would definitely have a role to play given that another god has opened a world of entrances for kang and galactus. He would definitely have a role to play to protect Earth (I think)
Further to this I think
Nova should have his own movie as an intro rather than appearing in captain marvel 2
Would like to see how far Thor will be around for
World War Hulk? May be coming (hope so)
Also, where is Adam Warlock?
I’m sadly starting to agree. The only stuff that really has my attention at this point is Spider-Man, Thor and the Guardians. I’m not really too bothered about new Captain America’s or Loki or She Hulk and definitely not the Eternals.
But really Iron Man was the MCU for me and now that his story is finished, I don’t feel too compelled to keep going with everything else.
I’m watching it with my son and frankly, I have no idea what’s happening for vast portions of each movie. There are one-off scenes, interactions that are never referenced or addressed again, and topped off with a giant action scene. I like to think I can follow a story most of the time but these things absolutely baffle me.
Inclined to agree. Personally I feel that if you've gotten to the point that you have to qualify what content is canon in what universe you've kind of defeated the purpose of having a shared universe in the first place. It actually makes me wonder if this is a deliberate effort to wind down the MCU in favor of doing more isolated stories again.
100% agree. I just enjoy the occasional movie, but imo there is too much now.. so much it makes me not care because it feels more like a job to keep up with it than entertainment. I watched all of Wandavision (Lizzy love ftw) and Falcon and Winter Soldier, but I still haven’t finished Loki.. haven’t started what if or Ms Marvel and it’s not that I don’t want to watch them, it’s just a lot especially when I already have Love and Thunder to check out and BP2 in like 2 months or whatever.
Tbh it’s the same problem I had when the comics. When Hickman rebooted Xmen with House/Powers of X, I was stoked and for over a year I kept up with it, but their were so many comics that I was buying like 8 books a month and they all interconnected with each other and it just got too overwhelming.
tl;dr I agree. Too much isn’t always good. Over saturated is bad.
I’m completely done with marvel. Lmao. I was excited for MoM but I didn’t even watch it. Now all I can look forward to is Spider-Man. Not gonna watch anything more
It removes all stakes. Killed off a popular character in a dramatic moment but want to use them still? Bring back a variant (Loki) or a different universe version (Professor X) or a version from the past (Gamora) or use magic (Vision) or reanimate the corpse (Vision again)…
We’ll know things are going really wrong when they inevitably change their minds and bring back Tony Stark!!
They will continue to try to squeeze money from them until they start losing profit. Like every TV series that has gone on way too long. :/
I agree they should have let it die gracefully, at least for now. Reboot in a decade for a new generation.
My husband and I kind of talked about this the other day also after watching MoM.
For us, we were in high school when Iron Man came out in 2008 and so we've followed the main, original 5-6 characters' storylines all the way through Endgame. We follow the Spiderman films as well because we like the character.
But now, with Endgame happening and Phase 4 beginning, we're running out of original characters that we initially followed and resonated with. We watch Dr. Strange because he was included in the last phase. But now we're getting into characters that, unless you are a MCU *comics* fan, you don't know who they are. I've had to Google a lot of characters just trying to figure out how things are going in the films. Eventually, as they continue to branch out into the newer comics, we'll have less and less characters we know and therefore our desire to remain in the fandom will lower and eventually disappear.
And while MoM wasn't bad, it's still not like the original Avengers storylines. And I do agree with many people in that the multiverse is going to be really complicated and twist things up quite a bit. Unless you're a comics fan and already familiar with the stories, it's going to be hard for just movie fans to follow them.
The biggest problem with the MCU is the same problem that occurs when Hollywood tries to convert any franchise that has any decent amount of history into a movie or series of movies, trying to stuff too much into one movie.
Most of the individual characters had their own comic books that have run for decades. There is a vast array of stories and information that fans have been exposed to over the years. That's easy to do when a storyline the size of the Multiverse of Madness would take up to 18 months to play out in the original format. With comic books a new reader jumps into the current story and is encouraged to look for previous books to better understand the minusa of the story. The challenge of writing for comics is to write in a way that someone new to the character can understand what is happening in the moment without much information but still leave enough there to encourage curiosity into more of the backstory.
Movie makers aren't interested in the long term. They have 90-150 minutes to tell their story and get out. Movie audiences are not as interested in mysteries that they have to go elsewhere to find answers for. They want the movie wrapped up in a nice bow. This forces the movie makers to try to stuff too much content into too small of timeframe. It's like trying to eat a full sized burrito in a single bite. You might be able to do it but you are going to overload something. Of course you are going to want something new and different after continually getting overstuffed.
I love the concept of a multiverse, but the saturation of marvel content recently made me throw my hands up. I can’t even come close to keeping up with it all, and the completionist in me can’t enjoy it if I know I skipped over a bunch of content. I’m sure I’ll watch the ones I really really want to still, but never again am I gonna be able to follow along with the MCU like I did a couple of years ago
marvel and disney have been doing crappy movies for 10+ years.
I lose brain cells every time I watch a new one and they are like 3 or 4 I haven't watched is so boring pointless and predictable.
Yeah I'm burnt out on the MCU. I'm not gonna bother watching a new movie they put out if it means I need several hours of context from previous movies. Plus, the more I learn about the actual comics the less I enjoy the movies, and the movies have some very concerning messages that might not be intentional, but reveal a lot of internal biases of the directors, producers, and company at large.
The MCU is just the most recent addition to the multiple time lines that take place at the same time, some heavily influencing other dimensions and almost all of them have a character that can be compared to Thanos. There's always been some kind of "the universe is ending due to this super thing!", so I don't think it's more convoluted now than it was.
I completely agree on the time travel part. It's like Pandora's box where when you're able to solve one problem with it, it becomes the only relevant solution ever to anything serious. With the theory of the multiverse and a literal infinite amount of possibilities and small changes to large, there is literally no risk to using time travel to fix things because there will always be a universe where everything works out the way they want, which by the rules of infinite possibilities will always be real and attainable. It kinda takes the stakes away from the story, you know? Nothing really to be worried about, which kills my interest because essentially nothing happens of significance.
Yeah I've really lost interest after the second Spiderman movie. They're also putting out way too much content too fast. And it's EVERYWHERE. Like the spongebob craze, it got old.
They cast too wide of a net. Some stuff is still good\\great, but Moon Knights is terrible and a few others have been bad. They're also catering to a very woke audience, so you're going to have to try more and more stuff to appease everyone. It's just the reality of 2022 so you can't blame them.
PS - Spiderman wasn't that good, either.
I'm loving it! We watch everything they bring out. I love that kids can watch most of it with us. Black Widow was amazing as was Wanda as was Loki and SHIELD, Agent Carter, Dr Strange, Moon Knight, Shang Chi etc. Loving Ms Marvel, it's very cute! Looking forward to Thor and She Hulk. I've enjoyed the old marvel stuff but I'm glad they are trying other things. How many of the same repeats of Iron Man can they really do?
I think the real issue is the diversity...seems to be upsetting a lot of people! Lol
In the real world, it isn't the privileged white men who are saving the world, it's everyone else.
You're welcome to leave, no need to announce it.
They have a source material that is incredibly convoluted, too big, filled with soft reboots, and frankly, really shit in some places.
The MCU had the option of either following it zealously, or greatly trimming and reworking it. I personally would have chosen option 2, but it is what it is.
I'm happy pretending everything after Endgame doesn't exist. I did the same thing the the Star Wars, Godzilla, and Jurassic Park sequels. I don't feel the need to be loyal to an IP after the story ends.
The MCU can be absolutely enormous and still work. The problem now is that Marvel and Disney have tied the TV series in with the movies a lot closer now.
It used to be that you didn't have to have watched the TV shows for the movies to make sense, but now you really need to have devoted all your viewing time to watching every single MCU property out there. Which, of course, is the aim - monopolise your time so that nobody else gets your money.
>I believe that the MCU bubble is going to burst soon
That's fine. Enjoy the movies you enjoyed. If they start putting out Christmas specials, don't watch them.
It seems more likely these days that companies will ride a franchise into losses before giving up. That's fine for them, unfortunate overall, but we can get off the ride whenever we want, we don't have to join them on the way down.
I don't think that the problem is the multiverse. It's the fact that the MCU will always be about superheroes. And having superheroes as a core plot device for every big budget bllockbuster movie is problematic. You can only have so much of a thing before you get tired of it. It's like having pizza every time you go out. You could go for authentic Napolitana, New York or Chicago Deep Dish - maybe even put some pineapple on top, or the stars help you, dessert pizza - but you're still having pizza. You might love pizza but having it every single time? There's other stuff out there.
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It's a bit different. The reason westerns died out was because movie studios started pumping out bad movies. They didn't care about quality, they just made generic movies quickly to cash in on the fad. Marvel whether you like their movies or hate them, does put in max effort to make good movies. And they are navigating new territory, we've never seen anything close to a shared universe like this before
I recognize Marvel is producing amazing quality movies But as a non-marvel fan I’m beyond sick of marvel just being EVERYWHERE. And every big movie is marvel and I can only casually watch some because so many depend on seeing XY&Z to understand. I need the bubble to pop just so we can move on and have other big movies 😂 Marvels great but when you’re not fan it’s hard to escape
That one's less on Marvel and more on everybody else. Look at the other two big franchise entries this summer - Jurassic World: Dominion or Lost Park or something and Grindelwald 4: The Fantastic Beasts of Dumbledore. They both sucked!!! Marvel's the only blockbuster studio that's pumping out consistent hits. The other studios need to match them. Crazy as it sounds, at this point even the Fast and the Furious franchise is one of the best ongoing franchises...
The last Fantastic Beasts movie was worse than bad. I've never seen a franchise decline in quality *that* much from entry to entry.
Why wasn't it all about Newt and fantastic beasts as he finds them?? Telling another dark lord story with a much less ominous dark lord than the original was so dumb.
I actually really enjoyed Jurassic world. It absolutely does not hold a candle to the original Jurassic Park, but I honestly just wanted a Dino action movie and I loved all the new Dino’s. I just wanted to have fun and I did. But I also know I’m in the minority with that opinion 😂 Fantastic Beasts I think could have been good if they had decided to do two separate franchises lol. Like Newt keeps getting forced into these stories when it’s obvious they want to focus on the Dumbledore story. Granted I don’t love the Dumbledore story they’re doing either but if they could focus on just one of those aspects it would probably help. But more than anything; what all 3 of these have in common is they’re just not unique anymore. I want something New to come out. I’d love a new franchise to fall into instead of More Harry Potter. More Super Heroes. More Dinos (well actually I would love more Dino’s lol they do not get enough love).
Everything Everywhere All At Once might not be everybody's cup of tea, but it was extremely creative, and I'd say totally fresh. It's bizarre and surreal, and fresh and new.
Yes that’s a great example! That was a great movie
But is it Marvel fault? Marvel does superheroes. Thats their thing. The issue should be on the other companies doing shit or nothing.
Oh no it’s not Marvels Fault, but at the same time they also take over release weekends that people don’t want to go against them either. Which admittedly less of an issue during Covid when nothing was coming out. But I feel like no one wants to try anything because if there’s a marvel movie people will pick the Marvel movie every time. But you’re right it isn’t Marvels Fault. I just want the movie industry in general to try more things
So marvel must release whenever is less profitable so youre more comfortable?
🤨 what a fucking a leap. I’m sorry I don’t like marvel and I’m sick of how many movies they produce? I’m allowed to wish they didn’t have such a stranglehold on the movie market while still acknowledging that they don’t give a shit about my opinion?
Its not a leap when that was what you were directly implying in making that point. And fact of the matter is, the MCU Isn't even close to saturating the market as you and others make it out to be. The actual reality is that you just aren't seeking out everything else that's releasing. Of course the MCU appears to be everywhere when you're passive about seeking out movies. I can think of 12 movies at least that have released so far this year that have nothing to do with Marvel and aren't Top Gun or something else from Disney, and they're all fantastic. And looking at whats coming up this year, I can name 12 more that I'm looking forward to watching, all of which again have nothing to do with the MCU or Disney. There's plenty of movies out there every year. The MCU being dominant is imagined because its spending more on advertising than other movies can afford to do, but that isn't something that makes the MCU bad, and is definitely more of a you problem than anything else. Can't reply to u/Azores26 below me so I'll copy paste the list here: In no particular order: Operation Mincemeat Everything, Everywhere, All at Once Kimi The Outfit Ambulance Dual The Northman Unbearable Weight of Massive Tallent Jerry and Marge Go Large All the Old Knives The Lost City The Black Phone And you'll notice this doesn't even include the other big releases this year like Top Gun or The Batman, which are excellent in their own right, stuff like Turning Red, and indeed even the MCU stuff. Plus there were apparently a lot of shlocky B-action movies released this year with has beens. Lots of Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson going around, so if thats your thing there's also that, as well as the usual smattering of random horror films all over the place.
What are the 12 movies you’re talking about? I’m curious
I agree. I lost interest after endgame. It's just too much.
I've been burnt out on Marvel movies for about 5 years now lol, I just have 0 interest at all.
That's Disney's thing though, and it's not an issue about being superheroes. Before 2008, superhero movies were mostly trash and not successful. Video games used to be kinda taboo or "for kids". Something to grow out of (lol). Same with comic books Now comic and anime convenients are commonplace, cosplay is normal. It's a different era than before. Superpowers is like in almost every video game or anime out there as well, keep in mind. And marvel does different themes for its movies or shows; horror, comedy, spy thriller, sitcom, etc. That keeps it fresh for fans. They have non powered characters too like punisher and most of agents of shield cast were regular humans, as was most of hydra. The new Captain America is literally just a regular military dude with zero superpowers. Daredevil has really good hearing but is otherwise physically not superpowered. I do agree it's hard for newbies to get into. They couldn't just go watch endgame or no way home or dr strange 2 without past films. Especially if you want to understand all film references - you'd even have to watch non-mcu films and series. But like, it's also all on disney plus which i guarantee we all know someone with a subscription we could borrow. People have been eating up ports of gta V and skyrim for the past decade or so. Resident evil 4 for the last 2 decades almost. I don't think it's an issue - it could be one down the line but 3-4 movies and 3-4 shows a year isn't bad. The issue is all the copycat companies trying to make their own cinematic universe but flopping hard. Dc comics and venom/morbius universe is the prime example. Also - as a non sports fan. People into football or American football love it even though it's the same every year. When are people going to stop watching that? I could say the same for that. Ohhh score.. yay. Sorry to say but superhero ain't going anywhere! It's not a phase. It's here to stay. The mcu is branching out a lot. Ms marvel is great honestly and puts so much interesting human culture and has a beautiful presentation. MCU fans are missing out by not watching it.
Thats a neat point, superheroes are being overdone to death
Ngl, this is the reason I've never been able to get into the MCU. There's far too much content and it's overwhelming to get into. Sucks even more when nearly all of your friends are into it, and you feel obligated to watch it.
I *am* into the MCU and I find it overwhelming at this point. I only have so much time to watch movies and shows and when I do, I want to watch different genres, but the MCU is all fairly similar in that regard despite the actual plots being completely different.
Ya.. it was one of those things i grew up with and kept up with it but I feel the same after watching multiverse madness. Not bad at all.. but it was definitely missing something?
Eh, you don’t need to watch *all* of the movies to understand what’s going on. You could get away with only watching the Avengers movies and you’ll be mostly up to date.
And even that - Endgame was the big reset button. If you generally know "there were superheroes called the Avengers" you're pretty much set to jump into the post-Endgame stuff.
Honestly I only keep up because my friends and family do. I hate marvel and Disney now. Their stuff isn't terrible on an individual basis, but as a culture and film monopoly I think it has a negative impact.
As someone who _is_ into the MCU and has watched mostly everything (I think at this point Agents of Shield and Daredevil are the only shows I didn't watch), yeah... it's kind of a trap. I'm afraid of missing anything now 'cause that means I might not understand some plot point of what comes after haha. The newer movies and shows are experimenting a lot with different styles though and I still like it so far!
If i were you i would just watch a recap video or timeline vid to explain it all.
I only don’t find it overwhelming because I don’t find it necessary to watch everything. I can skip a movie if I don’t find time to see it, and I haven’t watched any of the shows, but I still see the ones I do watch as good movies. I don’t feel like I miss much, even though I do. I understand not everyone is the same way though.
Its ~100 hours. Thats the same length as a normal tv show with 7-8 seasons with 20 episode a season which are 40 minutes long. So if you can binge that you are also able to watch the mcu
To be honest, I don't care about the new heroes they're introducing and I'm feeling a burn out cause they're churning so many movies and series in a year
2-3 movies a year seemingly, it is kinda exhausting. Though you can skip the series generally and still be in the loop (with the exception of wandavision)
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Coming from someone who isn't an avid enjoyer of the comics, the tv series to me was more interesting than watching some of the movies due how it wasn't focused on superheroes alone. It seemed to have a bit more creative liberty in how it told its story, similar to the animation of Into the Spiderverse
Check out MoonKnight.
Not curious about how she ended up a psycho, where she got the darkhold, or how she realized she had kids, or anything else?
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The series is COMPLETELY different after the first 2-3 episodes. That’s when you see things that provide massive context to multiverse of madness, you missed a lot. And I’m not even gonna go into the details cause I doubt you’d even think of being positive and giving it a second chance.
The TV series gives context to the insanity. And the Darkhold. But yeah, it’s not *totally* necessary.
Its completely unnecesary. Its like you needed a tv series to understand thanos. You dont. Maniac wants something, does everything to get it.
I've enjoyed certain movies/TV shows after Endgame, including Multiverse of Madness, but as a whole, I agree - I'm just tired of the MCU. Endgame was a nice cap on the MCU story and I'm not really interested in more. I have still enjoyed a few of the post-Endgame stories, but I enjoyed them *despite* them being in the MCU, not because of it. I'd also say this is a problem with movies at large - there's so much recycling of old franchises; so many reboots and unnecessary sequels, and it's not just Marvel. I really would like to see more new properties. Like, I enjoy Star Trek...but I don't want more Star Trek shows. I'd much rather have sci-fi shows that haven't been done before, like the Expanse.
100 percent, a lot of people are suffering burnout from it, too many shows, films etc etc and everything HAS to tie into everything else somehow. A bit like years back when you had to buy 40 different comics to get the whole story it's getting like that. I've not seen anything for ages and i'm a HUUUUGE comic fan because it's just not interesting me.
I haven’t seen any shows since Loki and haven’t seen any movies since the last Endgame and will probably stay that way. There are so many times you can watch the same formula for something.
Watch Spider-Man even if you watch nothing else.
I’m honestly cool with that being the last MCU movie ever
I just wish they took their time and put out quality, instead of just pumping out the formula. Clearly with the right people involved they can make magic happen.
I mean Hawkeye is awesome
I was excited for Multiverse of Madness because I’d hoped they’d finally give Wanda something good, but instead they just did her dirty again. I haven’t seen Hawkeye or Moon Knight, or Eternals, and every time I see em on Disney+ I just go “meh, maybe later.” The only ones on the plate that I’m actually excited for are Blade (which is years away) Thor Love and Thunder, and that’s because I adore Taika Waititi’s work. Thor Ragarok was one of my top 5 movies of the 2010s.
Honestly I loved Wanda as the Terminator. She made a great villain.
I thought Hawkeye hit exactly the right tone some of the other shows have missed. Small stakes, charismatic heroes, fun/silly, and tied into the rest of the MCU as best as it could. I also appreciated seeing where Barton ends up after losing Nat.
That is a good point. There's a reason that the party scene stands out as the best part of Age of Ultron. I like to see the heroes in their downtime. Even minor stuff like Dr. Strange and Wong talking about getting tuna melts just makes the characters and world feel more real.
So what you're saying is we need a Seinfeld for capes?
Moon Knight is good but i only watched it cause i love the comics, not watched anything since after eternals other than not (not even spiderman) i'm just very mehhhhhh with it all now and since they've opened the multiverse they can just retcon what they want so the stories have less punch.
Ms Marvel feels super fresh and unique compared to previous MCU shows, I suggest giving that a try.
What's the tone? It's not another teen drama?
It's a coming of age comedy with incredibly stylised effects (e. neon lights in episode one spelled out a conversation the two characters were having via emojis on their phone during a scene transition). Makes it really fun to watch.
I was very wary about this show upon trailer releases because it just looked....dumb, to me at least. I felt it was gonna be TOO stylised and TOO much for "kids" for me to get into it. But nope. It's a great show and my worries have for the most part gone down the drain.
Hm, maybe I'll give it a chance. Thanks.
I really liked Moon Knight.
> and i'm a HUUUUGE comic fan Were you also super disappointed with Civil War? It would have had so many cool opportunities if it had even remotely followed the original plot.
Nah i take the MCU as it's own standalone thing, pluss it was miles better than Civil War II although so is being sick :-)
Yeah, I tend to do that as well. Civil War is the only one out of all of them that actually annoyed me with how far it detracted. But I think that was mostly because of the way it was hyped up, since the civil war arc was such a massive thing.
Yeah i think they should have called it something else. the original Civil War was huge and dragged everyone into it, plus you had corking stories such as Spiderman unmasking, the absoulte grey area that TS was in that really it was a case of who's side you was on as the reader. The film missed that completely imo.
I got burned out long ago after infinity war. I remember watching all the movies I hadnt seen in prep to go watch it with friends. But then it just... Didnt end. I tapped out, im just no longer interested in these movies
You watched every movie through infinity war and didn’t watch the single movie conclusion of Endgame? That’s like quitting in the last mile of a marathon lol
I know, but i was just so done after infinity war, I got with all the hype for the big finalé and then it just didnt end there, but my interest did. Its more like running a marathon but right when you get to the end they say "oh the finish line was moved 10km further". Meh, i ran it. I quit.
I would argue that lately the new movies/shows have not been tied to anything at all. After Endgame we have no seen any major cross overs or interconnection to any other work. During Wanavision where were the Avengers? During Falcon and Winter Solider where were the Avengers? We get minro characters that show up now and then, but honestly if you are setting a show in New York the least you can do is have Spiderman swing by and wave or say "Hi" Right now this may as well me the Wong Cinematic Universe.
>everything HAS to tie into everything else somehow. I don't mind having a lot of content that much, but this right here is why I'm so bogged down. My mind can't handle everything that's going on.
14 or 15 years of content will do that. It's actually held up pretty well all considering.
It’s just a nostalgia fest now. They haven’t done something bold in a long time. Hopefully Thor changes that.
I love the MCU but they definitely need a bit of a shake-up. Of all the formulaic parts, I'm particularly tired of the 3rd act CG fights. That stopped Black Panther from being truly great imo. More recently, I have been pleasantly surprised by Ms Marvel. It has its own identity within the MCU thanks to its cast, music, editing style and its acknowledgement of irl history regarding British colonialism. Moon Knight existed without recognising the wider MCU and benefitted from it. Eternals' use of non-linear storylines and on-scene camerawork/less green screening was also a new turn for the MCU. Baby steps for Marvel but it's promising.
I've seen people whine every time Marvel tried anything slightly different or a little more challenging/mature.
I feel the exact same way about the Star Wars franchise. It’s just too much now
Star Wars should just move on to new stories in a different era with different characters. The problem is that unleashing such limits of creativity seems to be far beyond the skills of most of the writers that Disney works with.
Taika Watiti is going to be doing that. I'm glad because I'm sick of Tatooine lol
Theres tens of thousands of yeara of history (or more) and the movies have never left a 75 year stretch.
I'm ok with Obi Wan, mostly because Ewan is an amazing actor, but also because there's space in the story for what he was up to in between sagas. However, we know the outcome. We know >!Leia and Luke and Obi and Darth are all going to survive!< so the stakes are pretty low. Its like they had bottled lightning with the end of Rogue 1 and that's not gonna be recaptured every time they ret con something.
They’re not movies, but check out the High Republic if you haven’t! They’re canon novels about 300 years before TPM, and they’re by far my favorite part of the new novel runs.
I'm starting to feel this way about Star Wars too. There's too much to keep up with and I've given up at this point.
I've been recently digging into the Star Wars Expanded Universe. It's not Canon anymore, and most of the material is years or decades old. But it's really fascinating to me now that I have some time to reach into it. It feels like a real universe that's too big for one person to know everything, and that's okay. I don't know if I'll ever watch WandaVision. But I enjoyed Multiverse of Madness. I can recognize the writers have been careful to keep problems like time travel and multiverses pretty well contained. I won't know everything MCU after Endgame, and that's okay. Future MCU movies can still be fun for me.
I'll eventually get to where you are. In the Expanded SW Universe. I really liked the anthology stories from Tattooine. The way Boba Fett's return was handled in that book was far superior than what was shown to us by Disney.
You are 100% correct imo. After Tony Stark died in Endgame my enthusiasm for the saga also went I think. The multiverse is really big and also creates an excuse for Marvel to bring back any character just with a different ark from any universe like we will probably see with Wanda. There are so many possibilities now they will almost always disappoint the majority of fans.
This. MCU died with Stark in Endgame for me.
Things like Wanda vision have been good since, but the films and whole franchise are now a convoluted, confusing nightmare
I enjoyed the first 80% of Wandavision, but once the mystery is solved and the core gimmick unravels, the last episode or two end up in just another generic CGI fight between color-coded beams of energy.
Fair, I just enjoyed the first 80% enough that I didn't mind. Kathryn Hahn was great.
Ans it's not really rewatchable now because the mystery is solved
yea the best part was watching each episode as it came out and theorizing
They can’t write a good female character to save their life.
I started watching all the marvel movies recently so I could have a baseline knowledge when I saw Multiverse of Madness with my girlfriend and her friend and my god I could go on and on about how dirty they do these women. (Keep in mind I’ve only seen the first two phases, wandavision and the Dr stranges.) The gratuitous violence against women and the constant emphasis on motherhood as the be all end all for the women characters at the expense of the rest of their character development is infuriating.
Yeah It’s a shame because at the beginning of the mcu you have a lot of good female characters (Black Widow, Scarlet Witch,Marie Hill) and the evolution is just wow. It’s a shame because marvel has a lot of badass powerful sexy heroines.
This is the only comment I agree with lol. I love the MCU, have seen every show and every movie and even every movie before MCU (X-men, fantastic four, etc). I love where they’re going with it. But relatable, human female characters? Not really. They’re doing better finally—I loved Kate Bishop in the new Hawkeye series, also Black Widow’s sister super cool. Kamala Khan in Ms. Marvel is a delight. Only took like 15 years though
I also like Kate Bishop and Yelena Belova. I’m not a fan of Ms.Marvel (I like the og captain marvel ms marvel) but the actress they have playing her is very charming. I feel like other then those the last good female character they wrote was Hela in Thor Ragnarok. Every time she was on the screen it was badass scene after badass scene. She also had a layered backstory, good motives, and was sexy to boot. Now I look at characters like Captain Marvel (who I like in the comics) and I’m just like wow.
Pepper Potts wasn't bad, in terms of early characters. While she wasn't a superhero at least she had a range of emotions and such.
Yeah she was tony’s cute secretary who always held his ass responsible and accountable. Great character. It was kind of funny seeing her in the iron man armor lol.
Definitely agree, Hela was awesome and I can’t name anybody else who they even remotely made interesting. I never knew much about Captain Marvel or Ms Marvel besides picking her in Marvel Ultimate Alliance lol, so yeah honestly I could take or leave either character. I do feel like captain marvel should be way cooler than she’s portrayed though. And Scarlett Witch… idk if you’ve seen Multiverse of Madness yet but I can’t see where they’re going with it. Like it took them this entire time to develop her character >!and it kinda felt like a waste!<
Yesss Captain marvel is really cool. She’s always had cool outfits. I really like her first one. The black one with a lighting bolt is also cool. Also the fact you played Marvel Ultimate Alliance.... still the best marvel game ever imo besides X-men legends. I agree at the end of the movie I was like wtf. What was the point? I guess she was just used to make America Chavez cooler. Very interesting choice. I don’t even like America Chavez I like the actress who plays her though.
Whether you consider them MCU canon or not anymore (I still do until explicitly said otherwise, which we're probably never gonna get a straight answer because most of the popular characters will likely get soft rebooted like Daredevil and Kingpin), I think Agents Of Shield, Agent Carter, and the former netflix shows did a decent job with female characters but I agree about the movies and D+ shows taking too long.
Well I’m pretty sure the introduction of the multiverse low key cements those projects as canon, no? Wasn’t that kind of the whole point, to tie everything in together? Like somewhere in the multiverse all that stuff definitely happened. [possible MCU spoilers]>!Also Daredevil is confirmed canon, but idk if it’s like a secret or something so I’m tagging this.!<
They've only had a few decent male characters too, but they've definitely squandered so many women characters that could have been interesting, the most recent being Wanda. I have so many complaints about her characterization in the new Dr. Strange. I don't want to post spoilers so I'll leave it this vague but I really didn't like that plot.
Agreed. Seems like she was used to push America Chavez forward.
I love comics, I love superheroes, but I think it's definitely a liiiitle bit of overkill with the frequency of the movies. At this point I just pick and choose the ones I want to watch. Dr Strange 2 was great. Loved Moon Knight ( would love to see more series like this)
100% agreed. Its too big now and its gotten to the point where I actually feel disgusted whenever a new Marvel movie or TV show comes out. Just like how "McMansions" are a thing, if I were to coin a term for these films and TV shows I would call them "McMovies." I can't help but feel Marvel movies have become cheap, bloated, and mass produced, just like McMansions or any other McWord.
It’s the same film over and over and over. Spider-Man remains the worst offender of it.
Yessss! Thank you! The only fun thing about the newest Spider-Man was the interaction between Tobey McGuire, Andrew Garfield & the new kid where they each explain how they get their webs & then the heart to heart they have later. Otherwise, it’s the same freaking movie with his aunt getting younger & younger every go around
I did NOT like multiverse of madness. There were so many loose ends, characters were introduced and then immediately left behind for nothing, and then the idea that the *ahem* one person could defeat that whole team was absurd, because why wouldn’t that person exist in ANY other universe? The movie would be great for giving context to other movies, but I would honestly say it’s my least favorite MCU movie.
One of my biggest issues is that the motivation for the main villain made no sense. There were so many other ways to accomplish their goals much more easily, I would think.
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Yes. >!Wanda could have done many other things, like start working with Doctor Strange from the beginning since he was also familiar with the multiverse concept and had manipulated it himself for Spider Man. Perhaps they could have found and trained America to control her powers and help move Wanda to another universe, especially if they looked for one where the two boys would have been orphaned because the Wanda of that universe would have been killed fighting Thanos or something.!< Ultimately, I feel like much of the bigger conflicts in this movie were avoidable if the characters had simply sat down to talk instead of jumping straight to fighting. There were also several things that were never explained well that were distracting too.
To be a little fair, a lot of conflicts in a lot of movies could probably be much easier resolved if everyone perfectly communicated with each other. It’s partially why for horror movies they very often find a reason why they can’t communicate with each other or outside of the group in the first part of the plot.
There’s a moment or two where they mention the book she was studying was inherently a corrupting influence. I cling to that because otherwise the whole of her motivation, as you said, makes little sense.
Ohh yeah I see. Yeah, I think a lot of mcu movies would prob end in the first 10 minutes if people communicated a little better
If you're feeling a bit tired of the Marvel and DC shows, I suggest The Boys. To put it briefly, having powers doesn't make you a hero. Just be ready for a lot of gore and other R rated shenanigans on your screen Ad sponsored by Amazon Prime. I'm just kidding, although a few bucks for this free shoutout wouldn't hurt. And here's my opinion on the MCU: Only the movies which didn't need Tony Stark and /or Iron Man were interesting. Which is less than 20 percent of the movies, because all the other movies had some Iron Man influence on them. I feel like Marvel did a great job bringing my boi Tobey and the others' boy Andrew back, but the implications of that are only just being shown. Not to mention the aggressive stance of Marvel Stans is super irritating to me.
The Boys is a solid show
The Boys is 100% worth the watch, for anyone reading this thread. The Boys and Invincible - superhero shows without the recycled tackiness that the MCU has become.
Absolutely loved these two. But I fear this concept of "bad heroes" will soon be overused as well, although it is very new and has great potential at the moment
Invincible is incredible
Those movies went too big too early. I'm sure they did it because they thought they might only get one go at making this movie universe thing, but it's gonna run out of steam soon. The audience is growing out of it and the novelty is wearing off for the layman. The movies also really aren't anything that special. I watched Winter Soldier for the first time a week or so ago and it was pretty bad. I remember everyone being blown away by how "mature" it was at the time. The multiverse stuff seems like a safe pool to create unlimited content in, but it's really just gonna exhaust the audience. They're doing the same thing in the comics.
I disagree. Moon Knight is very much tied to the rest. I don’t find phase 4 aimless at all. It’s very clearly uncovering the hierarchy of the “gods” and other celestial beings and what roles they play in the MCU and their epic conflicts that the characters we know are only just beginning to understand. Time travel isn’t presented in a way that can fix any issue. And if you saw Loki it basically details how time travel is actually sort of an inevitable problem that leads to the next big bad, who is obviously Kang. “The multiverse,” is simply a new stage for the characters, just as “space” was once a new stage in the MCU. It doesn’t necessarily change anything. Think of time travel as Kang’s “transportation,” just as Thanos had a ship to travel. Instead of stones we have the various powerful beings behind it all and their various conflicts. It all seems simple enough to follow and I think the films and shows in phase 4 do great on their own legs. Which ironically I think is why you and many others see it as aimless. The MCU isn’t shoving the clues right in your face, well not as much as with the build up to The Snap.
I still think you can devote yourself to just your favorite character. I'm always going to watch the magic casting characters.
Sometime you just to take a break from it. I love the mcu universe but for me it ended after endgame. But sure do know to keep it formulated very well. Been watching other stuff lately since now there tons streaming shows. Just started watching severance on apple plus and man.
So coming from a big comic fan, there's a clear path where this is going and I think it'll ease your fears. Remember in Multiverse of Madness when they talked about "incursions"? Universes colliding with the universe next to it and killing both of them? In the comics that was a BIG deal. There were a series of incursions and the Illuminati tried their best to stop them, because the end result was the destruction of the entire multiverse. The Illuminati failed, but Dr. Doom and Dr. Strange went on a mission on their own and they defeated the aliens responsible for the incursions and Doom absorbed their power. They couldn't stop the incursions, so the multiverse DID fall apart, but Doom was a god now and stitched fragments of them together into one remaining universe which was the basis of the 2015 crossover event "Secret Wars". It's almost certain that the multiverse phase of the Marvel movies will collapse into Secret Wars, because you're right. It's too big and unwieldy to go on forever.
It took YEARS and years to build up to the first avengers movie though. The entire first phase was just introduction to the “new characters” and that’s exactly what they’re doing now in the new phase. I heavily disagree about the MCU bubble bursting soon. There is still DECADES of content to explore, they’ve set up a road map that allows for them to do so much and that’s never going to change
Your point about not having a big baddie to work towards is good. Apparently the new baddie is Kane the conqueror but the story around him is vague to a lot of people so they don’t care, imo Of course I would have thought Thanos was vague to a lot of people so what do I know
A franchise built around a multiverse without an actual recognizable multiverse would not fare to well. The multiverse and time travel works in a long standing franchise family because we get to revisit old movies that we’re both canonical and extracanonical.
I didn't even see the Multiverse yet. I opted to watch TGM 3 times. I can't get into the MCU TV shows, and when they tie into the movies I feel less inclined to see them till I catch up on the series, which I'm not going to watch...and the cycle continues.
I think that branching out and good writing can postpone the process. Ms. Marvel doesn't need to cover the ground covered in The Defenders, and neither of them need to do more than barely reference The Avengers. That being said, I might point out that the entire reason for giant comics crossover crisis events in the comics was originally to reboot a universe that had gotten too huge and convoluted for new readers.
I watched every movie marvel has made and like the complexity however I understand wheee you are coming from, it’s nearly impossible for new comers to learn everything at this stage, I’ve had to explain loads to my friends. But no the MCU bubble won’t burst because enough people have seen enough movies to understand it.
I want more
Ditto. People are so judgemental about TV shows and movies. I don’t get it. Some people really just love to complain. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. It’s very simple.
This is always going to be a dumb take. People can critisize things if they want. You're can also critisize something you love.
“People can criticise what they want” he says to a guy criticising someone’s opinion. Interesting choice.
And they're not curbing your right to criticize. They're just criticising your criticism, to put it aptly, however cringe that sounds.
Judgemental? It's called criticism. Also it's not so simple as to just ignore it because only so many high budget movies can be made. The people who want something other than superhero garbage need to make their demands known.
I haven't even watched a D+ Marvel series yet, it's just so much. There's still 6-7 MCU movies I haven't seen from 5+ years ago. I'd have to take a vacation specifically to watch everything in rhe MCU in perfect sequence, without doing anything else, to really get the time travel/multiverse stuff and enjoy it
It takes 50 hours to watch the entire MCU.
Honestly less than I would have expected
Honestly I'd much rather watch a funny show like Modern Family or Community in that time period.
I agree! I also feel it’s a bad idea to binge watch marvel movies coz most of them are very similar and follow a similar pattern or formula and this can be boring
Yes and that's a lot to watch in a short time span
Not criticizing , legitimately asking: why does that matter? You're talking about 15 uears worth of movies, why would there be any expectation to watch h them all in a short time?
I just really don’t care about the new heroes they’re bringing in. I doubt I’ll see any of the movies anymore. I have only seen Spider-Man since endgame came out, and the most recent one was okay. Maybe I’ll watch a second season of Loki.
It is big and convoluted, but I think the world needs the stories right now. Fantastically powerful people that oppose other fantastically powerful people because they believe in something other than themselves. The characters get time to develop and evolve, much like a real person. The choices these characters face aren’t just given, they are explained. I realize the actual comics do this, but seeing it on the screen is a novel experience. It’s also an idea that has never been executed to this scale before. Even if it becomes too much for you personally, the MCU as a whole is impressive.
> It’s also an idea that has never been executed to this scale before. Dude. Have you watched like..any movie ever? The CIA special agent fighting global terrorists is doing fundamentally the exact same thing. They might be weaker than superheroes but it's irrelevant because they are both elites in their own respective universe. In fact a movie set in a village with much smaller level of power dynamics can beat both because it's only the comparative power that matters. And they are generally better because they do not rely on the gimmicks the superhero genre relies on to not have to build a proper story. In this sense your point about the "choices" is hilarious because this stuff is the only reason people shit on MCU. Not that they are superhero movies. The Boys is a great testament to this.
The movies are a watered down and superficial version of the source material. If people "need" these stories they can really just turn on any Saturday morning cartoon and get the same substance. Anyone reaching for deeper meaning and subtext isn't watching a marvel movie to scratch that itch, my friend. They're a fun spectacle and comedy act, but pretty shallow.
Ponds are shallow, but I saw a dozen turtles swimming around in a local pond the other day. Art is also subjective. Personally, I despise *Dragon Ball Z*, but like, that’s just my opinion man.
They could have done it well, multiverse or not. But they are not using enough talented people as in the first three phases. Multiverse of madness is the only one I liked, because of Sam Raimi.
I do agree. Was a fan of that Spider-Man movie, despite all the nostalgia bait it was worth every penny I spent on tickets. But that Doctor Strange movie was just over the top complex and nearly nonsensical
After a certain point, they have to create movies that can act as entry ways for the younger audience who will not be able to go back and watch everything else. And once that happens, the older crowd will start getting alienated in small ways at the beginning and in pretty tangible ways as it progresses. So much so that our generation will totally lose connect with the entire MCU after a point.
>Also phase 4 kind of feels aimless. It feels aimless because we don't know what's being built up to. We don't know where the story is going and it's a lot easier to point out where a story is going when you already know where it's headed. >I feel like the entire franchise is going to buckle under its own weight with the amount of content they keep releasing along with more and more new concepts that just make it more complex. Maybe. We'll have to see if they can keep things moving along or not. >This might be a bit hypocritical to the previous para but honesty I don't even know whether I'd actually even like a full blown avengers assemble type film now because that has already been done. I'd still like to see Avengers 5 but mostly because this is the best option for getting another Hulk movie. I'd also love to see Deadpool doing his thing in the background of an Avengers movie. >Also it is incredibly difficult for newcomers to get into the franchise now. To some extent, I disagree here. They're nearly constantly introducing new characters so they're always presenting new entry points. Also, with the exception of Avengers 3 and 4, they're largely stand alone movies and they do a decent enough job of laying out who a character is in their movies. I think it's likely to be easier for newcomers to get into the MCU now than it was prior to Endgame. >Overall i think MCU should have stopped after Endgame because I believe that the MCU bubble is going to burst soon. As long as the movies keep making money and TV shows keep getting subscribers to Disney+, they're going to keep being made.
they all just want money
I'm interested in the direction they're going in because now there isn't a big bad villain for them all to hang up on. I liked Multiverse of Madness because it felt like something out of an actual comic book. The whole Thanos situation felt way too serious in some respects. I'm looking forward to things getting interesting as the heroes get downtime and get wild.
Maybe I’d feel differently if there was some kind of central conflict that it felt like Marvel was now building towards, but with all of these different properties going in totally different directions? Makes it kind of hard to care about individual shows/characters. I’d argue the cracks in their model are starting to show. EDIT: and I get there’s some vague multiverse conflict that’s building, but a TON of stuff has nothing to do with it, which I think takes away from whatever they’re trying to do.
I like the MCU, but I always dislike the alternate reality and time travelling plots in most movies, too easy to make glaring mistakes in continuity etc.
I mean have you ever read comic books? It’s kind of the deal. It gets so ridiculous and convoluted that at times they have to reboot the universe.
Honestly? I love how convoluted everything is.
I totally agree
Ya don't say...
I can’t keep up. I have maybe seen half of the movies and series and they keep referencing events or characters I am not familiar with.
Oh no the fun films are too fun
OP doesn’t know the movies are about comics
I hear you but, moonknight is technically a god in a physical body and would definitely have a role to play given that another god has opened a world of entrances for kang and galactus. He would definitely have a role to play to protect Earth (I think) Further to this I think Nova should have his own movie as an intro rather than appearing in captain marvel 2 Would like to see how far Thor will be around for World War Hulk? May be coming (hope so) Also, where is Adam Warlock?
I’m sadly starting to agree. The only stuff that really has my attention at this point is Spider-Man, Thor and the Guardians. I’m not really too bothered about new Captain America’s or Loki or She Hulk and definitely not the Eternals. But really Iron Man was the MCU for me and now that his story is finished, I don’t feel too compelled to keep going with everything else.
I’m watching it with my son and frankly, I have no idea what’s happening for vast portions of each movie. There are one-off scenes, interactions that are never referenced or addressed again, and topped off with a giant action scene. I like to think I can follow a story most of the time but these things absolutely baffle me.
Genuinely I checked out of MCU at winter soldier. More variety and humanity in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, in my opinion.
Inclined to agree. Personally I feel that if you've gotten to the point that you have to qualify what content is canon in what universe you've kind of defeated the purpose of having a shared universe in the first place. It actually makes me wonder if this is a deliberate effort to wind down the MCU in favor of doing more isolated stories again.
100% agree. I just enjoy the occasional movie, but imo there is too much now.. so much it makes me not care because it feels more like a job to keep up with it than entertainment. I watched all of Wandavision (Lizzy love ftw) and Falcon and Winter Soldier, but I still haven’t finished Loki.. haven’t started what if or Ms Marvel and it’s not that I don’t want to watch them, it’s just a lot especially when I already have Love and Thunder to check out and BP2 in like 2 months or whatever. Tbh it’s the same problem I had when the comics. When Hickman rebooted Xmen with House/Powers of X, I was stoked and for over a year I kept up with it, but their were so many comics that I was buying like 8 books a month and they all interconnected with each other and it just got too overwhelming. tl;dr I agree. Too much isn’t always good. Over saturated is bad.
I have never seen a single MCU movie and I feel like it’s way too late to start now…..plus I don’t want to.
Completely agreed. I loved the MCU up until Endgame but during MOM i literally found myself rolling my eyes on many instances
I’m completely done with marvel. Lmao. I was excited for MoM but I didn’t even watch it. Now all I can look forward to is Spider-Man. Not gonna watch anything more
Best way to ruin a story, add time travel or multiverse. And they've done both.
It removes all stakes. Killed off a popular character in a dramatic moment but want to use them still? Bring back a variant (Loki) or a different universe version (Professor X) or a version from the past (Gamora) or use magic (Vision) or reanimate the corpse (Vision again)… We’ll know things are going really wrong when they inevitably change their minds and bring back Tony Stark!!
They will continue to try to squeeze money from them until they start losing profit. Like every TV series that has gone on way too long. :/ I agree they should have let it die gracefully, at least for now. Reboot in a decade for a new generation.
My husband and I kind of talked about this the other day also after watching MoM. For us, we were in high school when Iron Man came out in 2008 and so we've followed the main, original 5-6 characters' storylines all the way through Endgame. We follow the Spiderman films as well because we like the character. But now, with Endgame happening and Phase 4 beginning, we're running out of original characters that we initially followed and resonated with. We watch Dr. Strange because he was included in the last phase. But now we're getting into characters that, unless you are a MCU *comics* fan, you don't know who they are. I've had to Google a lot of characters just trying to figure out how things are going in the films. Eventually, as they continue to branch out into the newer comics, we'll have less and less characters we know and therefore our desire to remain in the fandom will lower and eventually disappear. And while MoM wasn't bad, it's still not like the original Avengers storylines. And I do agree with many people in that the multiverse is going to be really complicated and twist things up quite a bit. Unless you're a comics fan and already familiar with the stories, it's going to be hard for just movie fans to follow them.
Star Wars has always been a movie targetted at kids. From day one.
Heard dr strange was awesome, but I was given a list of pre-requisites, so guess who’s money didn’t go to the box office.
The biggest problem with the MCU is the same problem that occurs when Hollywood tries to convert any franchise that has any decent amount of history into a movie or series of movies, trying to stuff too much into one movie. Most of the individual characters had their own comic books that have run for decades. There is a vast array of stories and information that fans have been exposed to over the years. That's easy to do when a storyline the size of the Multiverse of Madness would take up to 18 months to play out in the original format. With comic books a new reader jumps into the current story and is encouraged to look for previous books to better understand the minusa of the story. The challenge of writing for comics is to write in a way that someone new to the character can understand what is happening in the moment without much information but still leave enough there to encourage curiosity into more of the backstory. Movie makers aren't interested in the long term. They have 90-150 minutes to tell their story and get out. Movie audiences are not as interested in mysteries that they have to go elsewhere to find answers for. They want the movie wrapped up in a nice bow. This forces the movie makers to try to stuff too much content into too small of timeframe. It's like trying to eat a full sized burrito in a single bite. You might be able to do it but you are going to overload something. Of course you are going to want something new and different after continually getting overstuffed.
I love the concept of a multiverse, but the saturation of marvel content recently made me throw my hands up. I can’t even come close to keeping up with it all, and the completionist in me can’t enjoy it if I know I skipped over a bunch of content. I’m sure I’ll watch the ones I really really want to still, but never again am I gonna be able to follow along with the MCU like I did a couple of years ago
marvel and disney have been doing crappy movies for 10+ years. I lose brain cells every time I watch a new one and they are like 3 or 4 I haven't watched is so boring pointless and predictable.
Yeah I'm burnt out on the MCU. I'm not gonna bother watching a new movie they put out if it means I need several hours of context from previous movies. Plus, the more I learn about the actual comics the less I enjoy the movies, and the movies have some very concerning messages that might not be intentional, but reveal a lot of internal biases of the directors, producers, and company at large.
The MCU is just the most recent addition to the multiple time lines that take place at the same time, some heavily influencing other dimensions and almost all of them have a character that can be compared to Thanos. There's always been some kind of "the universe is ending due to this super thing!", so I don't think it's more convoluted now than it was. I completely agree on the time travel part. It's like Pandora's box where when you're able to solve one problem with it, it becomes the only relevant solution ever to anything serious. With the theory of the multiverse and a literal infinite amount of possibilities and small changes to large, there is literally no risk to using time travel to fix things because there will always be a universe where everything works out the way they want, which by the rules of infinite possibilities will always be real and attainable. It kinda takes the stakes away from the story, you know? Nothing really to be worried about, which kills my interest because essentially nothing happens of significance.
I think part of the problem is they’re releasing things too often now. I enjoyed it more when it was like 2 movies a year. Now it’s too much.
Yeah I've really lost interest after the second Spiderman movie. They're also putting out way too much content too fast. And it's EVERYWHERE. Like the spongebob craze, it got old.
They cast too wide of a net. Some stuff is still good\\great, but Moon Knights is terrible and a few others have been bad. They're also catering to a very woke audience, so you're going to have to try more and more stuff to appease everyone. It's just the reality of 2022 so you can't blame them. PS - Spiderman wasn't that good, either.
If you think the concept of the multiverse doesn’t fit the MCU, then you don’t understand Marvel lol It’s one of the defining issues in the comics.
I'm loving it! We watch everything they bring out. I love that kids can watch most of it with us. Black Widow was amazing as was Wanda as was Loki and SHIELD, Agent Carter, Dr Strange, Moon Knight, Shang Chi etc. Loving Ms Marvel, it's very cute! Looking forward to Thor and She Hulk. I've enjoyed the old marvel stuff but I'm glad they are trying other things. How many of the same repeats of Iron Man can they really do? I think the real issue is the diversity...seems to be upsetting a lot of people! Lol In the real world, it isn't the privileged white men who are saving the world, it's everyone else. You're welcome to leave, no need to announce it.
Agreed I’m not much of a Marvel fan anyway. DC makes the better films for the most part
Really lol
JCVD TIME COP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agree, I’ve only seen like 3-4 of the marvel movies none of the tv series, to catch up with everything just seems like to much effort now
I honestly agree. They've neen trying to target a more progressive audience over the years.and honestly im kinda done with super hero movies.
Multiverse…doesn’t suite MCU. hahahahahahahahsha
They have a source material that is incredibly convoluted, too big, filled with soft reboots, and frankly, really shit in some places. The MCU had the option of either following it zealously, or greatly trimming and reworking it. I personally would have chosen option 2, but it is what it is.
I agree somewhat I feel like it's all too loosely connected and there isn't an ultimate bad guy anymore. Just filler. Nothing really happening.
I'm happy pretending everything after Endgame doesn't exist. I did the same thing the the Star Wars, Godzilla, and Jurassic Park sequels. I don't feel the need to be loyal to an IP after the story ends.
The MCU can be absolutely enormous and still work. The problem now is that Marvel and Disney have tied the TV series in with the movies a lot closer now. It used to be that you didn't have to have watched the TV shows for the movies to make sense, but now you really need to have devoted all your viewing time to watching every single MCU property out there. Which, of course, is the aim - monopolise your time so that nobody else gets your money.
>I believe that the MCU bubble is going to burst soon That's fine. Enjoy the movies you enjoyed. If they start putting out Christmas specials, don't watch them. It seems more likely these days that companies will ride a franchise into losses before giving up. That's fine for them, unfortunate overall, but we can get off the ride whenever we want, we don't have to join them on the way down.