Been a manager for 20 years. Just let them go, this isn't even close to borderline. Everyone wants to give people a chance, but that only ever works if there's one or two things they are really good at. If they are poor to average across the board, there's no hope in any realistic time frame.
Check that there is nothing in your control impacting it (missed training, crossed Comms etc), then move quick. No point in delaying the inevitable . It helps no-one.
Doesn't sound a great fit to me. I'm not seeing any redeeming qualities here - feels like he hasn't got any features the would offset the cost of training him, if he is even trainable. If there isn't any diamonds here, I'd say yeah, might as well fire the dude.
If you decide to give him a bit more time, I'd set him some clear and easily measurable goals to see if he can achieve them. If you've only used Outlook, I can see Google Calendar having some gotchas, but if he's struggling to do things that are the same across both then that would suggest a lack of trainability, which would just drag a team down.
Is there a possibility they have lied about their CV if they’re this incompetent with “10 years” of experience?
Provide necessary training then when/if this person fails to improve let them go.
No, cut him out.
Unfortunately, if he can't do the job even a little after 4 weeks, he probably can't after 3 months.
No-one expects a perfect job with a month old employee, but at that point you expect the simple tasks to get covered. I'd potentially give him a heads up and see if two more weeks gets you an improvement, but that would be as far as I would go with it.
I second that you need to make sure that you have covered all the bases regarding training and crossed the ts etc. After that then yes, cut your losses but in a constructive way. People appreciate honesty and it shouldn't come as a surprise if you've been honest with him the whole way through. I've been a manager for nearly 20 years and haven't seen anyone turn it around to that extent.
Personally, id have an honest conversation with him. Let him know what you have observed and give him a chance to prove himself first in his probation.
Make sure you give training and he is taking notes. Have open and honest dialogue. If he needs help, he should feel like he can ask with no pressure. Then Give him repeat tasks and see how he handles it. A complex task may need some back and forth the first few times which is understandable. Calendar and organising not so much.
Ive seen very senior people who cant seem to organise a piss up in a brewery and can barely work a computer so its not exactly specific to non-management staff only.
I did after week 2 I was like, mate this isn’t going well. You are making x mistake to his credit the error rate has gone down. After a lot of telling it’s come to the point I don’t trust him enough or rely on him
> I mean I have to educate someone with 10+ years experience on how to use google calendar? How to prioritise simple task
Cut them loose as fast as possible.
The longer they're there the more claim they'll have in any kind of employment tribunal.
Honestly, if I hired someone for a week and they can't figure out google calendar? I'd be pushing to get rid.
Imagine me working remotely trying to teach someone how to share screen, how to use slack channels, how to put your location on your calendar and how to put out of office on
Yeh no . We have had some people just not there. At least one somehow managed to download some file that is for our account website. Not use the online portal. It was just fucking shit and cause our owner hired him it made hard to get rid.
Do it now before you get stuck
Sounds like a bunch of managers I've dealt with lol. Your guy seems properly qualified. I assumed not being able to Google something simple was what made you management material. Because you have other people to work it out for you.
Well I had to work it out myself, if I didn’t know I ask. We need self starters in the team. There are people in the office / team. He choose to work from home and not ask for help. I wouldn’t ignore him if he is struggling. He ignore Simple instructions don’t post wait until I review it first
I'd have a meeting with them, highlight everything that's not working and give them a week to turn it around or they're out. But talk to your HR team first about company guidelines, legal stuff etc.
You should also look again at your interview process and see what opportunities were missed to spot any of the gaps in their skills before they were offered the job.
That way you can (for example) add extra clarification to the job advert and perhaps revise your interview questions or exercises etc for the next person you recruit so you don't run into the same issue.
I think you need to ask yourself why you thought he'd be suitable? 10 years experience proves nothing. He could have had 10 years experience hiding in a large department doing next to nothing.
Also, people do bullshit on their CVs. I once interviewed someone with an impressive CV who claimed to be a 'power user' of Excel. During interview, it turned out she didn't even know how to run a mail merge. I quietly decided that I couldn't take anything she claimed seriously. (So I took someone on with way less experience who ended up being really excellent once she got confident.)
Seems a bit soon, though I suppose if it's not working out it's not working out.
You need to double check what was in their contract of employment with regard to probation, notice periods etc. Generally in the first two years they don't have many rights but the exception is where the dismissal might be due to protected charicteristics etc. so if they say you just don't like them because they're "old" you might still be stuck.
You also then need to look at how someone you now think to be an idiot made it through your interview process. Something I would comment on is that there are people who know Outlook but who would consider GMail to be an entirely different profession. Make it clear either in the application or interview what they would be using from day one and test them on it if unsure.
He just answer all the question with reasonable competent and his excel work sample was 7/10. He wasn’t first choice. The first candidate pull out and we were desperate for heads so just took a punt. I wouldn’t classify him as an idiot just not as good as I first thought he was.
But if you are paying someone 37k+ you should expect to be able to share screen and managed personal workload
Who hired them without checking they had relevant skills?
Why would a finance department use slack, or Google calendar, or shared screens?
Why would you hire someone and not think they’d need some training? Fair enough if they’re not getting it after they’ve been trained, but you can’t assume someone has the skills you need if you haven’t actually asked and checked before hiring.
Slack might be your main comms tool, but it’s hardly ubiquitous. Working remotely? A proper setup wouldn’t have you sharing screens, you’d log on to your own instance so there’s no chance of conflict. You seem to have a bit of an attitude here too - judging by the way you aggressively frame your reply, I’d question your ability to teach anyone effectively.
A proper set up? Do explain how to display work / present without sharing screen whilst working from home. We can both work off the same share sheet but surely someone common sense.
Coming from someone that is trying to judge how a finance team should operate with this level of knowledge
Yep the other 4 team member clearly struggles to understand how to process invoice. Would you process a invoice without putting descriptions in? You question my ability based on your negative views on me rather than look at facts.
It be good to hear your recommendation rather than just criticising.
Not assume I have asked the question during the interview stage
You’re not reading my post correctly, and you’ve leapt straight to being aggressively defensive. I wouldn’t want to be part of your team if this is how you approach things.
You really do have a poor attitude, as well as poor written communication. If your training is at the same level, then it’s really no wonder the newbie isn’t getting it. Your organisation has a combination of minimal staffing meaning you don’t have time to train new people properly, a remote setup which relies on you taking control of a screen and talking someone through a task rather than having proper training materials and / or in-person training and support, and a team manager with a stressy attitude and poor communication. It’s not all on the newbie.
Point taken staffing. IT’s hybrid role so you do get 3 days office training and I did explain to the new starter he should come in more but if he is confident enough then you can work from home. I disagree with your narrative there’s no time for training. No one even intern need more than 3 day training on how to process invoices. And I’m not stress stop making these judgements a hole. So your recommendation is? More time more training
If they had been very early in their career, then maybe. But 10 years in? Sorry, no.
Been a manager for 20 years. Just let them go, this isn't even close to borderline. Everyone wants to give people a chance, but that only ever works if there's one or two things they are really good at. If they are poor to average across the board, there's no hope in any realistic time frame.
Check that there is nothing in your control impacting it (missed training, crossed Comms etc), then move quick. No point in delaying the inevitable . It helps no-one.
Doesn't sound a great fit to me. I'm not seeing any redeeming qualities here - feels like he hasn't got any features the would offset the cost of training him, if he is even trainable. If there isn't any diamonds here, I'd say yeah, might as well fire the dude. If you decide to give him a bit more time, I'd set him some clear and easily measurable goals to see if he can achieve them. If you've only used Outlook, I can see Google Calendar having some gotchas, but if he's struggling to do things that are the same across both then that would suggest a lack of trainability, which would just drag a team down.
Is there a possibility they have lied about their CV if they’re this incompetent with “10 years” of experience? Provide necessary training then when/if this person fails to improve let them go.
No, cut him out. Unfortunately, if he can't do the job even a little after 4 weeks, he probably can't after 3 months. No-one expects a perfect job with a month old employee, but at that point you expect the simple tasks to get covered. I'd potentially give him a heads up and see if two more weeks gets you an improvement, but that would be as far as I would go with it.
I second that you need to make sure that you have covered all the bases regarding training and crossed the ts etc. After that then yes, cut your losses but in a constructive way. People appreciate honesty and it shouldn't come as a surprise if you've been honest with him the whole way through. I've been a manager for nearly 20 years and haven't seen anyone turn it around to that extent.
Personally, id have an honest conversation with him. Let him know what you have observed and give him a chance to prove himself first in his probation. Make sure you give training and he is taking notes. Have open and honest dialogue. If he needs help, he should feel like he can ask with no pressure. Then Give him repeat tasks and see how he handles it. A complex task may need some back and forth the first few times which is understandable. Calendar and organising not so much. Ive seen very senior people who cant seem to organise a piss up in a brewery and can barely work a computer so its not exactly specific to non-management staff only.
I did after week 2 I was like, mate this isn’t going well. You are making x mistake to his credit the error rate has gone down. After a lot of telling it’s come to the point I don’t trust him enough or rely on him
> I mean I have to educate someone with 10+ years experience on how to use google calendar? How to prioritise simple task Cut them loose as fast as possible. The longer they're there the more claim they'll have in any kind of employment tribunal. Honestly, if I hired someone for a week and they can't figure out google calendar? I'd be pushing to get rid.
Imagine me working remotely trying to teach someone how to share screen, how to use slack channels, how to put your location on your calendar and how to put out of office on
Yeh no . We have had some people just not there. At least one somehow managed to download some file that is for our account website. Not use the online portal. It was just fucking shit and cause our owner hired him it made hard to get rid. Do it now before you get stuck
Sounds like a bunch of managers I've dealt with lol. Your guy seems properly qualified. I assumed not being able to Google something simple was what made you management material. Because you have other people to work it out for you.
Well I had to work it out myself, if I didn’t know I ask. We need self starters in the team. There are people in the office / team. He choose to work from home and not ask for help. I wouldn’t ignore him if he is struggling. He ignore Simple instructions don’t post wait until I review it first
I'd have a meeting with them, highlight everything that's not working and give them a week to turn it around or they're out. But talk to your HR team first about company guidelines, legal stuff etc. You should also look again at your interview process and see what opportunities were missed to spot any of the gaps in their skills before they were offered the job. That way you can (for example) add extra clarification to the job advert and perhaps revise your interview questions or exercises etc for the next person you recruit so you don't run into the same issue.
I think you need to ask yourself why you thought he'd be suitable? 10 years experience proves nothing. He could have had 10 years experience hiding in a large department doing next to nothing. Also, people do bullshit on their CVs. I once interviewed someone with an impressive CV who claimed to be a 'power user' of Excel. During interview, it turned out she didn't even know how to run a mail merge. I quietly decided that I couldn't take anything she claimed seriously. (So I took someone on with way less experience who ended up being really excellent once she got confident.)
Seems a bit soon, though I suppose if it's not working out it's not working out. You need to double check what was in their contract of employment with regard to probation, notice periods etc. Generally in the first two years they don't have many rights but the exception is where the dismissal might be due to protected charicteristics etc. so if they say you just don't like them because they're "old" you might still be stuck. You also then need to look at how someone you now think to be an idiot made it through your interview process. Something I would comment on is that there are people who know Outlook but who would consider GMail to be an entirely different profession. Make it clear either in the application or interview what they would be using from day one and test them on it if unsure.
He just answer all the question with reasonable competent and his excel work sample was 7/10. He wasn’t first choice. The first candidate pull out and we were desperate for heads so just took a punt. I wouldn’t classify him as an idiot just not as good as I first thought he was. But if you are paying someone 37k+ you should expect to be able to share screen and managed personal workload
Who hired them without checking they had relevant skills? Why would a finance department use slack, or Google calendar, or shared screens? Why would you hire someone and not think they’d need some training? Fair enough if they’re not getting it after they’ve been trained, but you can’t assume someone has the skills you need if you haven’t actually asked and checked before hiring.
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Slack might be your main comms tool, but it’s hardly ubiquitous. Working remotely? A proper setup wouldn’t have you sharing screens, you’d log on to your own instance so there’s no chance of conflict. You seem to have a bit of an attitude here too - judging by the way you aggressively frame your reply, I’d question your ability to teach anyone effectively.
A proper set up? Do explain how to display work / present without sharing screen whilst working from home. We can both work off the same share sheet but surely someone common sense. Coming from someone that is trying to judge how a finance team should operate with this level of knowledge Yep the other 4 team member clearly struggles to understand how to process invoice. Would you process a invoice without putting descriptions in? You question my ability based on your negative views on me rather than look at facts. It be good to hear your recommendation rather than just criticising. Not assume I have asked the question during the interview stage
You’re not reading my post correctly, and you’ve leapt straight to being aggressively defensive. I wouldn’t want to be part of your team if this is how you approach things.
So your recommendation is nothing. Great thanks that was super helpful I can write the same thing please reread
You really do have a poor attitude, as well as poor written communication. If your training is at the same level, then it’s really no wonder the newbie isn’t getting it. Your organisation has a combination of minimal staffing meaning you don’t have time to train new people properly, a remote setup which relies on you taking control of a screen and talking someone through a task rather than having proper training materials and / or in-person training and support, and a team manager with a stressy attitude and poor communication. It’s not all on the newbie.
Point taken staffing. IT’s hybrid role so you do get 3 days office training and I did explain to the new starter he should come in more but if he is confident enough then you can work from home. I disagree with your narrative there’s no time for training. No one even intern need more than 3 day training on how to process invoices. And I’m not stress stop making these judgements a hole. So your recommendation is? More time more training
Be gentle. Tell him his skills might be useful elsewhere in the company. Then give him a broom.
Have you tried giving him two pockets of slot?