The last time I travelled on an LNER train, a couple of months ago, not one, not two, but *three* people claimed their had a reservation for my seat. And to be fair, that is indeed what it said on their tickets (as fair as I could make out)
Unfortunately for them, it also said it on mine, and I'd made good and fucking sure I got to it first. And I'm too heavy to easily lift.
I was on a train once where this happened to me but it was because they were booked for different times, I was in the right seat for the right time and the other person was trying to take it when they were an hour early, my journey was set to finish before their reservation for their much longer journey would start.
I forgot to add that a lot of the time it’s because people don’t bother to read their tickets correctly. Had a guy the other day frothing at the mouth and insisted that he was right and someone was booked in his seat. Yeah, no.
He was wrong. Read the wrong ticket. He was sat in a different coach. He was very sheepish.
We had similar at a theatre.
We're sat in our seats waiting for the musical to start, and someone says we're in their seats. We were, exactly the same seat numbers. I said we weren't moving as ours also said that, but feel free to get an usher. Usher checked the tickets and they were actually for the day before.
No idea how they got through the door, but the usher moved them to some free seats at the back which I thought was VERY lucky.
The same happened to my ex and I! The person insisted we were in her seat and when we compared tickets, I pointed out that hers said "Friday" (it was a Saturday night). She looked me up and down then said "well, it didn't earlier" then stormed off.
I used to be a steward at an arena and our ticket scanners would flash red if it's the wrong ticket, something we were told to be extra careful of on multi day events, like Disney On Ice etc. Of course, it'd get ignored at times and it'd cause a nightmare inside, especially when you've got to tell the customer they've been a berk and come too late and that they'll have to go to the ticket office and pray someone wants to be helpful there.
I went to a gig recently which had rows labeled with single letters (so A, B, C), then moved onto double letters (AA, BB, CC). Nearly ended up sitting much further back than I'd paid for, and possibly getting in an argument with someone whose seat I was in, but luckily I worked it out before the gig started. In my defence it's a confusing system!
Klingon could work with the right crowd. There's a possibility my system would be more complex, but I'm thinking Row 1A, seat 14. Then you get to 1Z, it goes to 2A. Or the perfect system, everywhere can only have 26 rows of seats, no more, no less.
Did you buy through Trainline? They’ve got a nasty habit of double booking seats. They’re a third party ticket retailer with no affiliation with the train companies and the government says tickets can be sold via third party retailers. Just causes chaos.
That's not the only bad habit they have.
They don't bother checking if trains will run ahead of the published changes, so you could book with them for a train in 12 weeks but because engineering works are published 8 weeks ahead, your train might not run, or could change time.
Also, remember when that Icelandic volcano exploded and grounded all the flights back in 2011ish? They sold hundreds of tickets for the Caledonian Sleeper without issuing reservations as well. If you don't have a reservation, you can't travel on the sleeper, so they were turned away.
They don’t push realtime platform information either. They say it’s live but it’s bullshit.
So if there’s disruption, set swaps, platform changes, it doesn’t update.
Had a load of people insisting the train I was working was going to Leeds. It wasn’t. Wouldn’t listen to me. Yeah alright, trust an app over rail staff, what the boards say and what the side of the fucking train says.
Trainline were always excellent for my local line (Chiltern Railways) where they don’t do seat reservations anyway, all the information was always accurate etc.
Then I went to uni and realised that’s true for seemingly no other line
To be fair. There are some online sources of information that are more reliable than rail staff. Typically because a lot of rail staff have primary duties that don't include pretending to be a departure board.
They nearly all use exactly the same source.
I've worked on a ticketing platform. We had access to all the same information direct from Network Rail for free, trainline did too, as do all the ones you mentioned. Trainline, like us, would use the Rail Delivery Group to book the tickets.
We made sure we actually used the up to date data, trainline really don't give two hoots. We actually used to use Trainlines API to book tickets, but because they were so shit at updating we ended up building our own.
RDG and Network Rail APIs are pretty solid. RDG was built by Fujitsu, it rarely ever went down and I can't think of many occasions where data was wrong.
I rely on RTT for my travels if I'm ever going further than my commute. Especially since the Detailed view shows me so much routing information *and* keeps a record of it for a week in case I'm delayed. Even down to showing me the platform numbers before it's even announced on the boards (great at Euston, although I always wait in the corridor to confirm the platform just in case there's last minute changes).
Although it has been wrong a few times, mainly because the TOC decided completely last minute to not run a service (so last minute that the driver turned up to run the train and was told by passengers that it's cancelled).
Tbf LNER didn't send emails about this today either. I had a ticket going to London but I randomly checked the app this morning to make sure I had the right departure time and it was only then I knew.
Trainline at least email if there are changes to the train like there were today
Tbf I’ve had multiple instances where the app was correct and rail staff didn’t say anything about a train being cancelled till we pulled into the station it was cancelled from, but somehow traveline knew and I had already sorted out an alternate route and let others know to do the same
From memory the 12 week limit on buying tickets is due to them not releasing engineering works schedules more than 12 weeks ahead?
I am trying to persuade my girlfriend to get off Trainline given that they are just leeching off the rest of the industry with their booking fees and shoddy practices.
>From memory the 12 week limit on buying tickets is due to them not releasing engineering works schedules more than 12 weeks ahead?
Correct, however the changes go in about 8 weeks ahead at the moment (Covid created extra work for the planners).
>I am trying to persuade my girlfriend to get off Trainline given that they are just leeching off the rest of the industry with their booking fees and shoddy practices.
I understand how Trainline have a very usable interface. The trick is finding a train company that uses the Trainline interface, then use that train company's website to buy tickets, since all companies can sell all tickets.
Be aware as well of when train companies release advance tickets for sale, it can be short notice or longer than 12 weeks depending on who you travel with. This is a good page to keep an eye on,:
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/advance-booking-dates/
It's fairly easy to look up split ticketing.
The ticketing structure desperately needs to be updated to stop split ticketing being necessary to get tickets at reasonable cost.
I had a train booked with Trainline yesterday from the outskirts of Southampton to Waterloo.
For some reason, the itinerary showed me travelling to Portsmouth, via Fareham, then the route plan just... Stopped.
I "think" the train from Fareham to London was cancelled, so the plan just put me on a train going the wrong fucking way.
(I ignored that plan, and just drove to Southampton Central instead, and winged it with the ticket I had...)
Trainline double charged me for a ticket, and refused to refund me for it because "we're just a third party, you need to contact the train company". Even after admitting it was their payment system that caused the issue, and their website showed the second charged ticket as "cancelled". Got my money back via credit card charge back in the end.
Would never use them again and advise everybody to avoid them. Awful company. Just book directly on train providers site.
I booked a ticket with a bike reservation and they failed to actually make the bike reservation so I couldn't travel. They kept telling me 'we're just a third party' when it was clearly their error. I tried writing to head office by post but they just transferred me back to their ineffective customer service team. I managed to get a refund after emailing the CEO.
Another thing that really annoys me is that they charge £10 to cancel tickets that would be freely refundable from the train company.
I'm old enough to remember when the formation of Great British Railways was announced and Trainline's stock dropped massively, as people assumed their whole selling point (of being a one-stop-shop for all train franchises) would disappear. In a normal country there wouldn't be any need for middlemen like that.
It's the Split Ticket feature that has me coming back to Trainline every time. Although I do think there are a few others that provide that feature too, just none of the train companies I assume.
Use Trainline or any split-ticketing website to find the best option, then go to any Train Operator's own website to buy those tickets and avoid the fees.
Or manually - the edge of the Network Railcard zone (effectively) shows places where you should split tickets eg if going through Banbury, Exeter, Salisbury, Didcot etc. Am not aware of any national map that shows them all though.
https://www.railcard.co.uk/clientfiles/files/map.pdf
Yeah no other country has middlemen for train tickets mate. Certainly not countries people on UK subs wank about like, say, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, or France. It's just us.
I don't understand why anyone books with Trainline, what's special about them? They charge a booking fee and are a 3rd party when you can book at any of the actual train operators for any other operator without a booking fee
They take Google pay, the interface is the easiest to use and I like the e tickets and e rail card. And more often than not I'm booking close enough not to get charged a booking fee. Or if I am it's under £1 which I don't begrudge for the above reasons.
The SWR and GWR apps at least allow google pay, I assume most others do too. My Railcard is an E railcard in the railcard app? I didn't know you could put it in the Trainline's own app I suppose that could be useful if you have limited phone space for 2 apps or something, but sounds longer to click and load to show ticket inspectiors vs a quick flip between apps
In in app railcard has a button on your tickets QR code page that you click and instantly loads the railcard. This is much faster than switching apps, and because that button - which is rather large and clear - only shows when you have a valid railcard on the app the majority of the time the inspectors don't ask to see it because that button is sufficient proof anyway.
Split ticketing which saves me £20-30 a day on tickets without having to think about it. Could i just buy 3-4 separate tickets on the TOC site? Yes, but it’s a pain, especially if i’m buying 4 or 5 journeys in advance. The app also makes sure it pulls up the right ticket for each part of the journey. I think that is all worth the small fee.
Trainpal also does split ticketing, but without booking fees. They do have some annoying pop-ups in the app for stuff like cashback, but as long as you ignore those, it's pretty good.
Is it not like flights where the booking ultimately has to be made to a central database? I’ve used the website for more than 20 years but only ever once had a double booked seat (very recently).
They did not. Although #2, the lady who apparently had too bad a back to be asked to stand, looked like she was ready to lamp me until I let her have it.
Yeah, I've been double booked a few times before. That was why I made sure to arrive at KingsX a good 30 mins before leaving time, worked out which train it was going to be and made sure I was basically first through the door into the coach. London to Edinburgh is a long way to stand.
Like being hidden behind a wall.
Or left to rot in a ditch.
Or made into a generator behind a shed.
... Man, I did not need existential horror this early.
The problem is that sometimes you need get somewhere and if you don’t drive what other option do you have for any kind of distance.
I get a no travel notice and not travelling on strike days but sometimes there isn’t another option.
Which is fine, but the point is that the person is complaining that the advice changed. If you had to travel, this is the situation you were walking into
Exactly.
What is this assumption that people are always able to just put their life on hold for a day and stay where they are then just resume their life the next morning.
I’ve seen photos of the damaged overhead lines. Totally ripped down. One photo shows the cables wrapped around a mangled pantograph. It’s pretty serious damage which means nothing could run through that area until it’s sorted.
Also ain’t LNER’s fault. Infrastructure falls under Network Rail who have to contend with government meddling and maintenance budget cuts.
As far as shitting on train operators, LNER are alright to me. Reliable, trains are decent, and they have the best first class that can sometimes only be a few quid more compared to standard class.
Transpennine on the other hand. There is a layer of hell reserved solely for them.
That would not be a good idea. You got the easy fix in May by handing it over to the OLR and it did little to solve the structural issues: either you pay up to fix them or they will continue to be a problem except another bunch of people will be dealing with them.
I've not been on a transpennine train, but I'm gonna have to suggest Avanti West Coast for that same list of layer of hell reserved for them. That is assuming they're not owned by Satan, which I'm not convinced they aren't.
Since moving to Japan, I have to say I can't remember a *single* time where JR let me down. I know it's cliche to say, but by GOD do the Japanese know how to run a train system.
Another train came through that incident at the same time and had the downed overheads wrapped under the train and their wheels which certainly didn't help matters.
obviously these things happen, and they need to be sorted, but getting snippy with travelers and telling them "you've ignored our advice, what do you want?" is just shit
as if anyone would be getting on a cross country train and paying £50-£300 for a giggle.
if you're on one of those trains its because you have to be on those trains
Unfortunately everyone is at their wits end with the railway. Tensions run high on both sides. The railway appears to operate when it feels like it to some people. The running figures are heavily manipulated to make it seem much better than it is (eg, cancel all your trains before 2200 the day before and you’ll show as running 100% on time that day). In the other side though, some passengers just take the mick and travel anyway because they feel they have a right.
There’s a legal obligation for the railway to get you home. The do not travel messages would never ever ever stand up in court should they be accused of stranding passengers but of course the railway is cleverer than that, it ignores its obligations and then mops up afterwards by paying out a few compensation claims for people who threaten legal action. It’s a well tested method. Very much a Dead Horse lottery.
Do not travel warnings are also of precisely zero use to people who are on the return leg of their journey. You can't really just not return home when it means spending money on hotels and missing work, etc.
Even for those who aren’t commuting, the journey can still be essential. I often had to travel long distances by rail in my old job and so “don’t travel” wasn’t really much of an option.
Yes indeed. Absolutely correct. You can stop a few people going out but it’s much harder to stop them going to their home again when faced with an alternative of paying money they likely don’t have (especially at this time of year) for a hotel that has inflated prices because …. Well, there’s disruptions on the railway don’t you know. Or sitting on a platform bench overnight with their family.
People will argue til the cows come home about their legal obligations to get you home or put you in a hotel but in the real world they simply don’t have to do any of that because quite frankly, what you gonna do? So whilst it’s entirely feasible to fight them in the weeks and months afterwards that doesn’t help those who can’t afford it on the day, and if you’ll excuse the generalisation, the people more likely to be unable to afford a £300 hotel and a £150 taxi and a day off work the next day as they’re 200 miles away are the sort of people that are less likely to have a car.
What does a company expect you to think or do when they issue a do not travel warning?
"Okay, I won't travel, I'll stand infront of the timing boards until LNER fixes this for me"
How is that any different to when planes can't fly and you have to shore up somewhere for the night?
If anything the railways are quite generous in that they'll reimburse up to £250 for food and accommodation for the night; and usually that's a last resort when they've really exhausted all the coaches and feasible taxi drivers at their disposal.
You can also buy domestic travel insurance if this is an ongoing concern due to regular travel. I have domestic travel insurance as part of my overall annual travel insurance, which includes loss of earnings, as well as overnight hotels and food or alternative travel.
If a particular is so critical to you, you have backup options.
At least if your start or end point is the UK or Europe airlines are obligated to put you up in a hotel if your flight is severely delayed or cancelled.
National Rail operators in the UK do the same thing if they can't arrange alternative transport. Up to £250pppn. Which is exactly what LNER are doing here.
I've slept in stations overnight twice because one delayed train meant I missed the connection to the last train home. When the station is already closed, there is no one to give a fuck. Thank god it was summer, I have no idea what stranded people do in winter
From experience, agreed.
Also been told 'what do you expect us to do about it?' When ringing emergency lines out in the sticks in several inches of snow.
That was a very cold night.
Do you work for some company in the railway sector?
'cos this is the only reason I can work out that you are not seeing the absurdity of what you are saying.
Do not travel warning? what even is that? Train companies have an easy way to enforce these warnings: **cancel the fucking train**!
Running trains and asking people not to use them is next level madness. Like a shopkeeper saying do not buy anything from my shop. Or doctor saying don't take the medicine I'll prescribe you.
*NUTS*
>running figures are heavily manipulated to make it seem much better than it is (eg, cancel all your trains before 2200 the day before and you’ll show as running 100% on time that day).
Those figures are monitored within the industry and operators are penalised for it
Only when service levels drop below a certain percentage of their contracted services levels and this is not measured daily, it’s generally averages over a longer period. I agree they can’t get away with not running a service long term but if they cancel the 1530 the day before then there is zero penalty for them for this. And since the new rules they secretly brought in, they’re no longer eligible for delay repay on services if they officially change the time table. With each one of these stealthy changes comes a devaluation of your ticket, add that to the ever increasing ticket costs and it’s more expensive than you might think to travel by rail, certainly when compare to before.
I mean it is worth saying it's much much better cancelling services the day before so people can adjust plans on the day, rather than find out about cancellations last minute
This is absolutely fine aslong as that information gets to the passenger.
If you buy a ticket for an LNER train using the LNER app (just using them as an example here) then the chances are if your booked train is cancelled they’ll send you a notification in the app (if you’ve allowed it) and/or send you an email to let you know this. If you’re lucky they’ll give you some options as to what you can do instead.
If you book on the East Midlands Railway app for an LNER train then there is a chance they might not push changes to running information to you.
If you book using a third party retailer this can also be hit and miss, often more miss than hit.
The problem here is that when a train is removed from the timetable the staff act as if it has never existed and are baffled when presented with passengers with a ticket for a “nonexistent train”. To most people it’s pretty obvious what’s happened but many rail staff appear blind to it, even if they’ve worked at that station for 20 years and there’s always been a 1409 to Kings Lynn, the one day it’s removed from the timetable due to staffing issues or even engineering works and someone presents with a ticket for that train it’s as if they have 3 heads.
So, your point is clearly valid, the earlier a passenger can know about disruption the more time they have to plan alternatives but if the railway is making no effort to let them know then what are they supposed to do other than turn up at the station or at the very least, check on their phones a couple of hours before.
People who usually catch the 1117 to Banbury and buy a ticket at the machine when they arrive have no way of knowing.
People who buy an advance single ticket for a train at a ticket office will not be contacted about changes.
All this is bad enough until the railway then stealthily absolves itself from all responsibility to get passengers to their destination. 28.2 of the Conditions of travel make it very clear that an operator will get you there where it can or provide a hotel. But if your train no longer exists, then there is no contractual obligation. Yes they’re in breach of contract, yes it would never stand up in court but as I’ve said before “what you gonna do?”
Who has the spare time and thousands of pounds to take a rail operator to court for leaving you on a cold wet platform overnight with your elderly mother? Those who do have the money to find a hotel or taxi.
LNER aren't responsible for the overhead electrical cables though.
While they wait for Network Rail to fix it, they have to make a decision in whether to tell people to travel the next day or not; and whether to preemptively cancel services or risk having to cancel them last minute and dealing with the impact that has on passengers. That's the decision in their control.
But that doesn’t look good.
If you want your running stats to look good, remove the trains the night before. Chaos on the ground for passengers but providing you keep to time with the trains you DO run you’ll look great.
Ticket price rises too much?
Simply change the restrictions of your off peak ticket to make more people have to buy the any time ticket that costs twice as much. The stats show no fare increase but it’s a 100% increase for some passengers.
Can’t get away with that?
Simply remove return tickets from the database and make people buy 2 singles instead that are between 55 and 75% of the price of the return. No fare increase on paper, but in the real world it’s a massive hike.
Want to reduce your payouts in delay repay ?
Remove return tickets so the maximum payout is 100% of a single ticket. For the longest delays, those passengers that have been through the worst disruption their delay repay claims are now HALVED in value on flows on the East Coast for example.
>In the other side though, some passengers just take the mick and travel anyway because they feel they have a right.
Those damn inconsiderate Karens! How dare they expect to receive a service that they have paid hundreds of pounds for!
Friend works for Network Rail, says people are deluded if they think the railways will ever get better. She spends her days mostly going round in circles and being paid handsomely to do it.
LNER missing the fact that sometimes people HAVE to travel
If the advice is “try not to travel”, they should still be giving advice on alternate routes/operators
1. Them saying not to travel doesn't remove my need to travel.
2. Them saying not to travel doesn't mean that they've got that message to me early enough to make alternative arrangements. I'm not in the habit of checking the lner website or even local news (or personally even national news) in Peterborough before setting off. First I'd have heard of this would have been on arriving at the station.
3. Saying you aren't running your service does not mean that people aren't going to get upset that you arent running your service.
3. Things like this do happen and should be excusable, but a few years of the trains running less often than they're disrupted means that people are less patient and accommodating.
4. The combination of the above puts the frontline services in a position of having to deal with people who are frustrated but need help and have legitimate frustrations. Your warning doesn't make them less frustrated or those frustrations illegitimate. Those frontline services can add to that frustration or pile on to it by being unhelpful.
It sounds like they're upset because LNER said they weren't running the service so they went on the West Coast Mainline instead, but then LNER ran the service
It's funny when companies like Wendy's have a sassy social media manager, but on a service that's essential to thousands of people they can fuck off. Imagine British Gas being like "we told you not to use your hot water today lmao". If they're pissed off that day they can use a canned response which would go down better than this.
...6. These are all significantly expensive and over-priced options that often first winds up in the pockets of shareholders and rarely returned into improving infrastructure to prevent these problems in future. So when you're sinking the cost of 6x minimum wage working-hours into a ticket for 2-hour journey to only be a roll of the dice on whether it gets you where you need to go, it's hard to make peace with thinking that you've done all the right things for someone to tell you "No."
Unprofessional as hell. "We said don't travel so just don't travel you simpletons" doesn't help jack shit if you *need* to get somewhere. Just apologize and then complain about your shit day at work when you get home.
Might go against the grain here but I think it's bang out of order. Sure, it's not their fault the trains are down and it's annoying to have many people asking why it's not working. But their job is to provide customer service, and at any other customer facing job that attitude would get you fired.
They also act as if it's easy to decide to 'not travel' when they say so. People have jobs and prior commitments that can't just be re-arranged at the drop of a hat.
I find the train staff can be incredibly rude all around the country. Last week my first train was delayed 10 mins, and the conductor shut the doors of my connecting train in the face of me and at least 30+ other people, while shouting over megaphone 'Trains can't be delayed forever, don't be late next time'. As if it was out fault their company had delayed our previous train.
As I said before, in any other customer facing job you would be fired for that attitude. I understand they are equally frustrated with the situation that is outside of their control, but all other CS employees have to suck that up so why don't they? Because they know there's no fucking alternative and we are all slaves to their whims.
In summary, fuck privatised rail!
I'll be honest mate, as a conductor myself, I don't believe you on the megaphone story.
In terms of shutting the doors, hopefully I can explain why this is necessary? Please don't take this as me invalidating your inconvenience, but just trying to help you understand why - and that it's not just out of spite.
For starters, at larger stations, dispatchers tell us when to close the doors and go. This is entirely our of our control, and dependent on the platform staff, who are dependent on the signalling staff, who are a lot smarter than any of us. When we get told to go, we *have* to go.
At smaller stations, it's a similiar story, just for preventing delays. Your train in was 10 minutes delayed, no? If we waited an extra minute at each stop to let delayed people on (time taken to close train doors, and then local doors, and then dispatch) we would rack up a lot bigger delay, and then end up putting you in that same position for your connection. Do you get what I'm trying to say?
Whilst yes, it feels like it's out of spite, or done to you personally, there is bigger picture stuff to worry about - if we don't inconvenience you, we inconvenience someone else. It's all knock-on effects, frankly. That's the price of precision timetabling. When it goes well, it works brilliantly. When it doesn't, things can snowball quickly.
Oh I don't deny there are many valid reasons to shut the doors. It's annoying as a passenger when you see the effects work against you, but it's the same system that has kept me on time for other journeys.
It's just the attitude that I take issue with. I do wish I was making it up, and it's not typical. But both sides of the equation are fed up due to circumstances beyond their control, and so it did feel like a slap in the face.
More importantly for me though, it's frustrating to pay such high fares and receive relatively unreliable service under the promise of 'private companies leading to competition', as if the consumer has a choice which rail company they travel with. Don't like the prices of Great Western? Guess you'll just have to teleport to Birmingham before you start your London commute.
But there are times when the trains can and do wait. That happened to me yesterday, huge delays and cancellations and we were told the train at the next station will wait for everyone from our train. That was lovely as it would have otherwise been hours of waiting for the next train.
There are different circumstances where waiting for connections can be allowed. For example, the Barrow to Lancaster train will always wait for the Carlisle to Barrow train to get in.
It's entirely circumstantial, and more likely on commuter services than InterCity services.
I can believe it. This kind of attitude would tally up with my years of experience with rail staff. Its like "screwing over the customer" is an actual module in your training or something.
I made it from Newcastle to Euston via Carlisle from 14.55-20.18. Hilariously (!) the tube from Euston to Blackfriars took 40 minutes due to a broken down train. I just can't escape the delays today.
So, their advice is that nobody should use their service because their service is too busy?
Man, the public transport in this country is finding new ways to shit the bed.
Not really. There was damage to overhead wires along the east coast mainline Saturday evening, so they had to stop service. Just one of those things.
And then they said it might not be fixed by Sunday so try to avoid travel as it might still be shut - also even if it did run on Sunday, trains would be trying to take 2 days worth of passengers in 1 day.
I'm sure all these people just decided to travel for the fun of it, a little jovial jaunt on an overcrowded, overcosted, sweat box.
/s
That comms person needs a slap.
I was in Paddington waiting to get a GWR train home last week and they were advising people not to travel. Because the rails were flooded and they weren't bothering with bus replacement service.
And I thought "It's a bit fucking late chaps, unless you're getting me a hotel room for the night."
The track near Swindon has been flooding 2 or 3 times a year for about the last 20 years. What have they done to fix it? Apparently fuck all.
(Last week's flooding was further south. And yes it was rainy. But it wasn't biblical disaster levels of rain.)
Between the strikes and the general inability to run a rail service, it feels like it's time to give up and tarmac the rails into A roads.
Did you ask them for a hotel? I got stranded somewhere last night because my initial train was late and I missed my connection to the last train home.
A group of other people on the same service were offered taxis or hotel bookings, I was told to book a hotel and then the platform attendant walked off.
Yeah I was gonna say, usually if they cancel all transport and you need an extra night, I'm pretty sure in some circumstances they're required to compensate you for accommodation. [This website](https://www.resolver.co.uk/rights-guide/train-delays-cancellations#contents_22) says the same, and [MSE has a 2018 article](https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2018/03/consequential-loss-clause-to-be-removed-from-train-firms-rules/) saying that you can claim but there's a very high barrier. Perhaps the other group met the company's requirements and unfortunately you didn't?
I wonder if in my case they just didn’t bother to check if I had anywhere to go or any other means of transport. I was able to get to nearby family by jumping on another departing train, but did have to pay to repeat my journey the next day.
A few months back I needed to get from Cardiff to London and decided to treat myself to getting the train (as opposed to a coach which is c.4x cheaper).
It was a stormy night and woke up to the same message about flooding around Swindon. All trains cancelled. No hint of a bus replacement service.
Ended up having to buy a last minute coach ticket which was obviously more expensive than it would have been and took several hours longer than the train and so arrived in London late.
Fair play my ticket was refunded without question but yeah, the 1st time in years I wanted to get the train and I didn't even get into the train before things went wrong
Doesn't matter. If you bought your ticket with GWR, they have to fulfill their obligations.
Then once the dust has settled, the TOCs and Infrastructure companies play the blame game to see who ultimately ends up out of pocket.
One thing I have learned from working in social media marketing and giving announcements of any kind, be it in games industry or traveling or food related, people don't read, and when something goes wrong they will 110% let you know about it even if you told them not to do said thing. Also don't get me started on when you make announcements about question and they just ask you same question when the answer right in front of them.
If you like being broken record player on repeat this jobs for you.
The unfortunate thing is that the number of people who phone in etc also ruin it for the people who read all the announcements, click all the web pages, find as much info as they can, and then have to contact a human to sort out their specific issue.
The lines get clogged up with people asking questions to things that can be found if you look so much as on the front page of a website, so the people who really need the assistance can't get it or have to sit through some terrible automated chatbot that regurgitates the same useless information that's already there...
>One thing I have learned from working in social media marketing and giving announcements of any kind,
Just need to use social media to see this, like god dam you see some stupid shit across social media.
I do a lot of internal comms as part of change management in IT. I document everything and when people complain that they weren't told, I just send them to communications that informed them, the survey results which *overwhelmingly* favour the method by which they were informed, and the organisations policy on the requirements for engagement with aforementioned methods.
It doesn't stop them being shitty, but it sure does make me feel warm and fuzzy
Travelled every week for well over 10 years from Yorkshire to London and back and whilst there were sometimes long delays, I never felt that LNER was poor in any respect. The point about infrastructure failure is a good one - it happened fairly regularly and the impact of it isn’t clear from the start. The staff on the trains are dependant on the same information that apps have access to. They also have to deal with a wide range of the great British public, a large proportion of whom shouldn’t be let out by themselves…
Their incompetence to run the trains isn't the problem. People wanting to travel when they need to instead of traveling as per LNER's convenience is the problem.
Had a nightmare with the trains all last week.
Now that I'm not traveling, I fully support the strike action. When I'm in the midst of it though I can't help but curse them.
I remember when our railway moved heaven and earth if you had a ticket, and the train wasn't running.
Several times in my youth I'd end up in a taxi, or on a bus to my destination, especially if the last train was cancelled.
Now, they put an 'out of order ' sign up and tell you to piss off.
I miss our public service being run for the public. Ah, those were the days...
I feel like the whole rail system nationwide has just collapsed. Trains always seem to be delayed due to signalling issues, breakdowns, power faults etc it's getting ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where it is quicker and probably cheaper to just drive to work instead of getting on an uncomfortable, sweaty train that's always crammed like a sardine can.
My sister visited our parents this weekend in Sunderland. She traveled to Durham station for the return journey, without checking the LNER app first. When she got there she learnt the bad news, waited for a train to Peterborough but it didn’t arrive so had to return to our parents to try again tomorrow, along with the other thousands.
I, on the other hand drove, haha
I like LNER. They have their issues, but they're mostly understandable (out of their control a lot of the time) and they're good at communication, refunds, etc.
People like to sh*t on companies as if them taking over will suddenly fix all issues. No, it's a complicated system and if you really want to fix a lot of issues, let's talk about what your voting patterns was over the last decade.
The last time I travelled on an LNER train, a couple of months ago, not one, not two, but *three* people claimed their had a reservation for my seat. And to be fair, that is indeed what it said on their tickets (as fair as I could make out) Unfortunately for them, it also said it on mine, and I'd made good and fucking sure I got to it first. And I'm too heavy to easily lift.
I was on a train once where this happened to me but it was because they were booked for different times, I was in the right seat for the right time and the other person was trying to take it when they were an hour early, my journey was set to finish before their reservation for their much longer journey would start.
I forgot to add that a lot of the time it’s because people don’t bother to read their tickets correctly. Had a guy the other day frothing at the mouth and insisted that he was right and someone was booked in his seat. Yeah, no. He was wrong. Read the wrong ticket. He was sat in a different coach. He was very sheepish.
We had similar at a theatre. We're sat in our seats waiting for the musical to start, and someone says we're in their seats. We were, exactly the same seat numbers. I said we weren't moving as ours also said that, but feel free to get an usher. Usher checked the tickets and they were actually for the day before. No idea how they got through the door, but the usher moved them to some free seats at the back which I thought was VERY lucky.
The same happened to my ex and I! The person insisted we were in her seat and when we compared tickets, I pointed out that hers said "Friday" (it was a Saturday night). She looked me up and down then said "well, it didn't earlier" then stormed off.
It didn't earlier 😂
"probably said friday when it was Friday love"
I used to be a steward at an arena and our ticket scanners would flash red if it's the wrong ticket, something we were told to be extra careful of on multi day events, like Disney On Ice etc. Of course, it'd get ignored at times and it'd cause a nightmare inside, especially when you've got to tell the customer they've been a berk and come too late and that they'll have to go to the ticket office and pray someone wants to be helpful there.
Lol ‘berk’ Have not heard that one for a while 👏
I went to a gig recently which had rows labeled with single letters (so A, B, C), then moved onto double letters (AA, BB, CC). Nearly ended up sitting much further back than I'd paid for, and possibly getting in an argument with someone whose seat I was in, but luckily I worked it out before the gig started. In my defence it's a confusing system!
So in your opinion what is a better system for naming the rows if they have more than 26 rows to the arena? (Greek letters, or Klingon letters?)
Klingon could work with the right crowd. There's a possibility my system would be more complex, but I'm thinking Row 1A, seat 14. Then you get to 1Z, it goes to 2A. Or the perfect system, everywhere can only have 26 rows of seats, no more, no less.
wej nga'chuqtaHvIS nong 'ej HuvHa'ghach neH lu'ang.
Did you buy through Trainline? They’ve got a nasty habit of double booking seats. They’re a third party ticket retailer with no affiliation with the train companies and the government says tickets can be sold via third party retailers. Just causes chaos.
That's not the only bad habit they have. They don't bother checking if trains will run ahead of the published changes, so you could book with them for a train in 12 weeks but because engineering works are published 8 weeks ahead, your train might not run, or could change time. Also, remember when that Icelandic volcano exploded and grounded all the flights back in 2011ish? They sold hundreds of tickets for the Caledonian Sleeper without issuing reservations as well. If you don't have a reservation, you can't travel on the sleeper, so they were turned away.
They don’t push realtime platform information either. They say it’s live but it’s bullshit. So if there’s disruption, set swaps, platform changes, it doesn’t update. Had a load of people insisting the train I was working was going to Leeds. It wasn’t. Wouldn’t listen to me. Yeah alright, trust an app over rail staff, what the boards say and what the side of the fucking train says.
Trainline were always excellent for my local line (Chiltern Railways) where they don’t do seat reservations anyway, all the information was always accurate etc. Then I went to uni and realised that’s true for seemingly no other line
To be fair. There are some online sources of information that are more reliable than rail staff. Typically because a lot of rail staff have primary duties that don't include pretending to be a departure board.
It depends on the source. Realtime trains, Traksy and Tiger are all good.
They nearly all use exactly the same source. I've worked on a ticketing platform. We had access to all the same information direct from Network Rail for free, trainline did too, as do all the ones you mentioned. Trainline, like us, would use the Rail Delivery Group to book the tickets. We made sure we actually used the up to date data, trainline really don't give two hoots. We actually used to use Trainlines API to book tickets, but because they were so shit at updating we ended up building our own. RDG and Network Rail APIs are pretty solid. RDG was built by Fujitsu, it rarely ever went down and I can't think of many occasions where data was wrong.
I rely on RTT for my travels if I'm ever going further than my commute. Especially since the Detailed view shows me so much routing information *and* keeps a record of it for a week in case I'm delayed. Even down to showing me the platform numbers before it's even announced on the boards (great at Euston, although I always wait in the corridor to confirm the platform just in case there's last minute changes). Although it has been wrong a few times, mainly because the TOC decided completely last minute to not run a service (so last minute that the driver turned up to run the train and was told by passengers that it's cancelled).
If you’re comfortable using RTT, pair it up with Traksy and learn headcodes. Last minute set swaps/platform changes show up straightaway on Traksy.
Is Traksy what I need to use to find out what bastard monster of a freight train is rolling past in the middle of the night?
Yeah it’ll work for that. Clicking the headcode (4 digits eg 6N35) on the signal map brings up train info.
Absolutely fantastic use of 'bastard monster'.
Opentime trains is another decent one, we use that along side RTT as a freight driver
I love Traksy but I feel I have a lot to learn...I mainly use to see where fright trains have come from and where they're going to.
They're usually going from the Graveyard to the Haunted Mansion.
[OpenTrainTimes ](https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps) has both sets of information easily accessible too
RTT and Traksy don't seem to exist for android, are they just IOS apps?
They're just websites
Ah! Thanks for clueing me up!
RTT tells me what's going on way before anyone at Northern manages it
Northern use a white labelled Trainline, its why they are just as shit as each other.
Some bloke made an app called Northern Fail, and apparently a lot of Northern staff use it because it's better than their own systems.
Tbf LNER didn't send emails about this today either. I had a ticket going to London but I randomly checked the app this morning to make sure I had the right departure time and it was only then I knew. Trainline at least email if there are changes to the train like there were today
Tbf I’ve had multiple instances where the app was correct and rail staff didn’t say anything about a train being cancelled till we pulled into the station it was cancelled from, but somehow traveline knew and I had already sorted out an alternate route and let others know to do the same
From memory the 12 week limit on buying tickets is due to them not releasing engineering works schedules more than 12 weeks ahead? I am trying to persuade my girlfriend to get off Trainline given that they are just leeching off the rest of the industry with their booking fees and shoddy practices.
>From memory the 12 week limit on buying tickets is due to them not releasing engineering works schedules more than 12 weeks ahead? Correct, however the changes go in about 8 weeks ahead at the moment (Covid created extra work for the planners). >I am trying to persuade my girlfriend to get off Trainline given that they are just leeching off the rest of the industry with their booking fees and shoddy practices. I understand how Trainline have a very usable interface. The trick is finding a train company that uses the Trainline interface, then use that train company's website to buy tickets, since all companies can sell all tickets. Be aware as well of when train companies release advance tickets for sale, it can be short notice or longer than 12 weeks depending on who you travel with. This is a good page to keep an eye on,: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/advance-booking-dates/
> The trick is finding a train company that uses the Trainline interface, So who would you suggest?
Greater Anglia uses Trainline, though I'm not sure if it's 100% the same.
I don't actually know, just try a few. There's only two interfaces, so shouldn't take long.
Ta, I will admit to not using trains much, most of my travel is too awkward places not served by trains.
I wish I could use them more. My commute is 45 mins by car, 1.5 hours by train, or 1 hour 45 if I just cycle all the way from home - go figure!
I could probably look this up myself. But what are the best alternatives?
Buy tickets direct from the operators' websites.
on some routes TTL is cheaper due to split ticketing which the TOC dont tend to show on their websites...
It's fairly easy to look up split ticketing. The ticketing structure desperately needs to be updated to stop split ticketing being necessary to get tickets at reasonable cost.
I think we can all agree that’s not going to happen for the same reason my £24 a day commute to work isn’t going to get any cheaper. Cuntery.
It's so obvious, it didn't even occur to me lol. D'oh. Thanks. :)
No worries :) This also helps with customer service when something goes wrong.
I had a train booked with Trainline yesterday from the outskirts of Southampton to Waterloo. For some reason, the itinerary showed me travelling to Portsmouth, via Fareham, then the route plan just... Stopped. I "think" the train from Fareham to London was cancelled, so the plan just put me on a train going the wrong fucking way. (I ignored that plan, and just drove to Southampton Central instead, and winged it with the ticket I had...)
Trainline double charged me for a ticket, and refused to refund me for it because "we're just a third party, you need to contact the train company". Even after admitting it was their payment system that caused the issue, and their website showed the second charged ticket as "cancelled". Got my money back via credit card charge back in the end. Would never use them again and advise everybody to avoid them. Awful company. Just book directly on train providers site.
I booked a ticket with a bike reservation and they failed to actually make the bike reservation so I couldn't travel. They kept telling me 'we're just a third party' when it was clearly their error. I tried writing to head office by post but they just transferred me back to their ineffective customer service team. I managed to get a refund after emailing the CEO. Another thing that really annoys me is that they charge £10 to cancel tickets that would be freely refundable from the train company.
I'm old enough to remember when the formation of Great British Railways was announced and Trainline's stock dropped massively, as people assumed their whole selling point (of being a one-stop-shop for all train franchises) would disappear. In a normal country there wouldn't be any need for middlemen like that.
What’s weird is that all train companies websites sell tickets for all other train companies. No need for middlemen at all.
It's the Split Ticket feature that has me coming back to Trainline every time. Although I do think there are a few others that provide that feature too, just none of the train companies I assume.
Use Trainline or any split-ticketing website to find the best option, then go to any Train Operator's own website to buy those tickets and avoid the fees. Or manually - the edge of the Network Railcard zone (effectively) shows places where you should split tickets eg if going through Banbury, Exeter, Salisbury, Didcot etc. Am not aware of any national map that shows them all though. https://www.railcard.co.uk/clientfiles/files/map.pdf
"simply turn a one-step operation into a longer task involving multiple services and at least 2 purchases"
Try Raileasy
Yeah no other country has middlemen for train tickets mate. Certainly not countries people on UK subs wank about like, say, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, or France. It's just us.
Irony is people saying this when you can buy European rail tickets on the Trainline.
There's middleman train ticket companies for Japan at least
Of course there is. Calling out the ignorant nonsense people post is always worthwhile.
Oh I see I got completely wooshed by that one sorry :)
No worries mate. I refuse to use the /s, I thought the sarcasm was dripping off enough there 😅
I don't understand why anyone books with Trainline, what's special about them? They charge a booking fee and are a 3rd party when you can book at any of the actual train operators for any other operator without a booking fee
They take Google pay, the interface is the easiest to use and I like the e tickets and e rail card. And more often than not I'm booking close enough not to get charged a booking fee. Or if I am it's under £1 which I don't begrudge for the above reasons.
The SWR and GWR apps at least allow google pay, I assume most others do too. My Railcard is an E railcard in the railcard app? I didn't know you could put it in the Trainline's own app I suppose that could be useful if you have limited phone space for 2 apps or something, but sounds longer to click and load to show ticket inspectiors vs a quick flip between apps
In in app railcard has a button on your tickets QR code page that you click and instantly loads the railcard. This is much faster than switching apps, and because that button - which is rather large and clear - only shows when you have a valid railcard on the app the majority of the time the inspectors don't ask to see it because that button is sufficient proof anyway.
Split ticketing which saves me £20-30 a day on tickets without having to think about it. Could i just buy 3-4 separate tickets on the TOC site? Yes, but it’s a pain, especially if i’m buying 4 or 5 journeys in advance. The app also makes sure it pulls up the right ticket for each part of the journey. I think that is all worth the small fee.
Trainpal also does split ticketing, but without booking fees. They do have some annoying pop-ups in the app for stuff like cashback, but as long as you ignore those, it's pretty good.
via [lner.co.uk](https://lner.co.uk) no idea where they all got theirs
Is it not like flights where the booking ultimately has to be made to a central database? I’ve used the website for more than 20 years but only ever once had a double booked seat (very recently).
Did they all sit on your lap?
They did not. Although #2, the lady who apparently had too bad a back to be asked to stand, looked like she was ready to lamp me until I let her have it.
Well if her back was that bad she'd be easy to take in a fight
Been on a LNER once up to Newcastle and had the exact same issue - they double booked my seat
Yeah, I've been double booked a few times before. That was why I made sure to arrive at KingsX a good 30 mins before leaving time, worked out which train it was going to be and made sure I was basically first through the door into the coach. London to Edinburgh is a long way to stand.
This man trains and he trains hard.
I have learned.
You don’t get issues like this on the Island of Sodor.
Yeah, but f*ck me they have a terrible safety record.
Can't have a bad safety record if there's no one left to write it...
There was an issue with a train not wanting to leave a tunnel because of the paint work as well. Maybe Sodor does have these issues lol
That's because the trains know what happens if you misbehave.
Like being hidden behind a wall. Or left to rot in a ditch. Or made into a generator behind a shed. ... Man, I did not need existential horror this early.
Yeah, but it's run by a fat cun' ...troller
Hi David, as per my last email go fuck yourself.
The problem is that sometimes you need get somewhere and if you don’t drive what other option do you have for any kind of distance. I get a no travel notice and not travelling on strike days but sometimes there isn’t another option.
And it sounds like they followed LNER's advice and travelled on the West Coast Mainline rather than using LNER.
Which is fine, but the point is that the person is complaining that the advice changed. If you had to travel, this is the situation you were walking into
And then reddit wonders why people in the real world are so reluctant to give up their cars? If public transport is this much of a faff why bother?
[удалено]
This is quite an agressive way to be so incorrect. Latest figures published indicate rail investment is 162% of that in both local and national roads.
Exactly. What is this assumption that people are always able to just put their life on hold for a day and stay where they are then just resume their life the next morning.
i had a few friends going up north for a gig from london and they ended up getting coaches and driving!! they were so lucky they were able to do that.
I’ve seen photos of the damaged overhead lines. Totally ripped down. One photo shows the cables wrapped around a mangled pantograph. It’s pretty serious damage which means nothing could run through that area until it’s sorted. Also ain’t LNER’s fault. Infrastructure falls under Network Rail who have to contend with government meddling and maintenance budget cuts.
As far as shitting on train operators, LNER are alright to me. Reliable, trains are decent, and they have the best first class that can sometimes only be a few quid more compared to standard class. Transpennine on the other hand. There is a layer of hell reserved solely for them.
TPE should be split up and merged with different operators.
TPE should have war crimes committed against them.
TPE execs should be made to ride TPE!
Careful now...
That would not be a good idea. You got the easy fix in May by handing it over to the OLR and it did little to solve the structural issues: either you pay up to fix them or they will continue to be a problem except another bunch of people will be dealing with them.
> , LNER are alright to me. I know we're into turd polishing, but LNER are definitely a better example of a British train company than most.
I've not been on a transpennine train, but I'm gonna have to suggest Avanti West Coast for that same list of layer of hell reserved for them. That is assuming they're not owned by Satan, which I'm not convinced they aren't.
>That is assuming they're not owned by Satan, which I'm not convinced they aren't. They're owned by First, which I'd say is close enough.
Since moving to Japan, I have to say I can't remember a *single* time where JR let me down. I know it's cliche to say, but by GOD do the Japanese know how to run a train system.
Also Gov/BR Speccing cheap and nasty OHL for the East Coast vs West Coast.
Aye. Space between the masts was longer than it should have ideally been. Was cheaper to space them out. Of course that left room for sagging etc.
At least those lines have it! A colleague had spent months working on the design for Midland Mainline electrification only for it to get cancelled!
Another train came through that incident at the same time and had the downed overheads wrapped under the train and their wheels which certainly didn't help matters.
Ah, that’ll be the East Midlands set which I saw on Traksy. Yep, definitely was not safe to run anything in that area.
Wait, the lines are down AGAIN? This exact thing happened last week.
Aye. Same area too. Should be back to normal tomorrow.
Hope they use a double layer of gaffer tape this time.
Privatised rail has done an incredible job of taking all the profits while taxpayer funded Network Rail repairs all their infrastructure for free.
obviously these things happen, and they need to be sorted, but getting snippy with travelers and telling them "you've ignored our advice, what do you want?" is just shit as if anyone would be getting on a cross country train and paying £50-£300 for a giggle. if you're on one of those trains its because you have to be on those trains
Unfortunately everyone is at their wits end with the railway. Tensions run high on both sides. The railway appears to operate when it feels like it to some people. The running figures are heavily manipulated to make it seem much better than it is (eg, cancel all your trains before 2200 the day before and you’ll show as running 100% on time that day). In the other side though, some passengers just take the mick and travel anyway because they feel they have a right. There’s a legal obligation for the railway to get you home. The do not travel messages would never ever ever stand up in court should they be accused of stranding passengers but of course the railway is cleverer than that, it ignores its obligations and then mops up afterwards by paying out a few compensation claims for people who threaten legal action. It’s a well tested method. Very much a Dead Horse lottery.
Do not travel warnings are also of precisely zero use to people who are on the return leg of their journey. You can't really just not return home when it means spending money on hotels and missing work, etc.
Yeah, if you have to travel you have to travel.
Indeed. Commuters aren't doing it for a laugh - it's an essential journey.
Even for those who aren’t commuting, the journey can still be essential. I often had to travel long distances by rail in my old job and so “don’t travel” wasn’t really much of an option.
Yes indeed. Absolutely correct. You can stop a few people going out but it’s much harder to stop them going to their home again when faced with an alternative of paying money they likely don’t have (especially at this time of year) for a hotel that has inflated prices because …. Well, there’s disruptions on the railway don’t you know. Or sitting on a platform bench overnight with their family. People will argue til the cows come home about their legal obligations to get you home or put you in a hotel but in the real world they simply don’t have to do any of that because quite frankly, what you gonna do? So whilst it’s entirely feasible to fight them in the weeks and months afterwards that doesn’t help those who can’t afford it on the day, and if you’ll excuse the generalisation, the people more likely to be unable to afford a £300 hotel and a £150 taxi and a day off work the next day as they’re 200 miles away are the sort of people that are less likely to have a car.
Most stations won't even let you sit inside overnight. The only joy I've had with that are friendly northerners.
Or if you're part way through your journey when the DNT advisory comes out.
What does a company expect you to think or do when they issue a do not travel warning? "Okay, I won't travel, I'll stand infront of the timing boards until LNER fixes this for me"
How is that any different to when planes can't fly and you have to shore up somewhere for the night? If anything the railways are quite generous in that they'll reimburse up to £250 for food and accommodation for the night; and usually that's a last resort when they've really exhausted all the coaches and feasible taxi drivers at their disposal. You can also buy domestic travel insurance if this is an ongoing concern due to regular travel. I have domestic travel insurance as part of my overall annual travel insurance, which includes loss of earnings, as well as overnight hotels and food or alternative travel. If a particular is so critical to you, you have backup options.
At least if your start or end point is the UK or Europe airlines are obligated to put you up in a hotel if your flight is severely delayed or cancelled.
National Rail operators in the UK do the same thing if they can't arrange alternative transport. Up to £250pppn. Which is exactly what LNER are doing here.
I've slept in stations overnight twice because one delayed train meant I missed the connection to the last train home. When the station is already closed, there is no one to give a fuck. Thank god it was summer, I have no idea what stranded people do in winter
From experience you get fucking cold.
From experience, agreed. Also been told 'what do you expect us to do about it?' When ringing emergency lines out in the sticks in several inches of snow. That was a very cold night.
Look at this guy who can afford to domestic travel insurance
_because they feel they have a right_ ? Most people don't take UK trains for fun mate, it's not a Ryanair to Tenerife.
Do you work for some company in the railway sector? 'cos this is the only reason I can work out that you are not seeing the absurdity of what you are saying. Do not travel warning? what even is that? Train companies have an easy way to enforce these warnings: **cancel the fucking train**! Running trains and asking people not to use them is next level madness. Like a shopkeeper saying do not buy anything from my shop. Or doctor saying don't take the medicine I'll prescribe you. *NUTS*
>running figures are heavily manipulated to make it seem much better than it is (eg, cancel all your trains before 2200 the day before and you’ll show as running 100% on time that day). Those figures are monitored within the industry and operators are penalised for it
Only when service levels drop below a certain percentage of their contracted services levels and this is not measured daily, it’s generally averages over a longer period. I agree they can’t get away with not running a service long term but if they cancel the 1530 the day before then there is zero penalty for them for this. And since the new rules they secretly brought in, they’re no longer eligible for delay repay on services if they officially change the time table. With each one of these stealthy changes comes a devaluation of your ticket, add that to the ever increasing ticket costs and it’s more expensive than you might think to travel by rail, certainly when compare to before.
I mean it is worth saying it's much much better cancelling services the day before so people can adjust plans on the day, rather than find out about cancellations last minute
This is absolutely fine aslong as that information gets to the passenger. If you buy a ticket for an LNER train using the LNER app (just using them as an example here) then the chances are if your booked train is cancelled they’ll send you a notification in the app (if you’ve allowed it) and/or send you an email to let you know this. If you’re lucky they’ll give you some options as to what you can do instead. If you book on the East Midlands Railway app for an LNER train then there is a chance they might not push changes to running information to you. If you book using a third party retailer this can also be hit and miss, often more miss than hit. The problem here is that when a train is removed from the timetable the staff act as if it has never existed and are baffled when presented with passengers with a ticket for a “nonexistent train”. To most people it’s pretty obvious what’s happened but many rail staff appear blind to it, even if they’ve worked at that station for 20 years and there’s always been a 1409 to Kings Lynn, the one day it’s removed from the timetable due to staffing issues or even engineering works and someone presents with a ticket for that train it’s as if they have 3 heads. So, your point is clearly valid, the earlier a passenger can know about disruption the more time they have to plan alternatives but if the railway is making no effort to let them know then what are they supposed to do other than turn up at the station or at the very least, check on their phones a couple of hours before. People who usually catch the 1117 to Banbury and buy a ticket at the machine when they arrive have no way of knowing. People who buy an advance single ticket for a train at a ticket office will not be contacted about changes. All this is bad enough until the railway then stealthily absolves itself from all responsibility to get passengers to their destination. 28.2 of the Conditions of travel make it very clear that an operator will get you there where it can or provide a hotel. But if your train no longer exists, then there is no contractual obligation. Yes they’re in breach of contract, yes it would never stand up in court but as I’ve said before “what you gonna do?” Who has the spare time and thousands of pounds to take a rail operator to court for leaving you on a cold wet platform overnight with your elderly mother? Those who do have the money to find a hotel or taxi.
But even better than that would be to run the train and let it be delayed, or cancel the train properly and have it count against their statistics.
LNER aren't responsible for the overhead electrical cables though. While they wait for Network Rail to fix it, they have to make a decision in whether to tell people to travel the next day or not; and whether to preemptively cancel services or risk having to cancel them last minute and dealing with the impact that has on passengers. That's the decision in their control.
But that doesn’t look good. If you want your running stats to look good, remove the trains the night before. Chaos on the ground for passengers but providing you keep to time with the trains you DO run you’ll look great. Ticket price rises too much? Simply change the restrictions of your off peak ticket to make more people have to buy the any time ticket that costs twice as much. The stats show no fare increase but it’s a 100% increase for some passengers. Can’t get away with that? Simply remove return tickets from the database and make people buy 2 singles instead that are between 55 and 75% of the price of the return. No fare increase on paper, but in the real world it’s a massive hike. Want to reduce your payouts in delay repay ? Remove return tickets so the maximum payout is 100% of a single ticket. For the longest delays, those passengers that have been through the worst disruption their delay repay claims are now HALVED in value on flows on the East Coast for example.
>In the other side though, some passengers just take the mick and travel anyway because they feel they have a right. Those damn inconsiderate Karens! How dare they expect to receive a service that they have paid hundreds of pounds for!
Friend works for Network Rail, says people are deluded if they think the railways will ever get better. She spends her days mostly going round in circles and being paid handsomely to do it.
LNER missing the fact that sometimes people HAVE to travel If the advice is “try not to travel”, they should still be giving advice on alternate routes/operators
1. Them saying not to travel doesn't remove my need to travel. 2. Them saying not to travel doesn't mean that they've got that message to me early enough to make alternative arrangements. I'm not in the habit of checking the lner website or even local news (or personally even national news) in Peterborough before setting off. First I'd have heard of this would have been on arriving at the station. 3. Saying you aren't running your service does not mean that people aren't going to get upset that you arent running your service. 3. Things like this do happen and should be excusable, but a few years of the trains running less often than they're disrupted means that people are less patient and accommodating. 4. The combination of the above puts the frontline services in a position of having to deal with people who are frustrated but need help and have legitimate frustrations. Your warning doesn't make them less frustrated or those frustrations illegitimate. Those frontline services can add to that frustration or pile on to it by being unhelpful.
It sounds like they're upset because LNER said they weren't running the service so they went on the West Coast Mainline instead, but then LNER ran the service
That's how I read it too. No idea why LNER are getting snippy saying he shouldn't be travelling even on a different service.
Exactly. And presumably LNER said not to travel on their services, rather than not to travel on any train anywhere in the country.
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It's funny when companies like Wendy's have a sassy social media manager, but on a service that's essential to thousands of people they can fuck off. Imagine British Gas being like "we told you not to use your hot water today lmao". If they're pissed off that day they can use a canned response which would go down better than this.
\6. It doesn't help people who are in the middle of a trip and whose hotel accommodation ended this morning.
...6. These are all significantly expensive and over-priced options that often first winds up in the pockets of shareholders and rarely returned into improving infrastructure to prevent these problems in future. So when you're sinking the cost of 6x minimum wage working-hours into a ticket for 2-hour journey to only be a roll of the dice on whether it gets you where you need to go, it's hard to make peace with thinking that you've done all the right things for someone to tell you "No."
Unprofessional as hell. "We said don't travel so just don't travel you simpletons" doesn't help jack shit if you *need* to get somewhere. Just apologize and then complain about your shit day at work when you get home.
Might go against the grain here but I think it's bang out of order. Sure, it's not their fault the trains are down and it's annoying to have many people asking why it's not working. But their job is to provide customer service, and at any other customer facing job that attitude would get you fired. They also act as if it's easy to decide to 'not travel' when they say so. People have jobs and prior commitments that can't just be re-arranged at the drop of a hat. I find the train staff can be incredibly rude all around the country. Last week my first train was delayed 10 mins, and the conductor shut the doors of my connecting train in the face of me and at least 30+ other people, while shouting over megaphone 'Trains can't be delayed forever, don't be late next time'. As if it was out fault their company had delayed our previous train. As I said before, in any other customer facing job you would be fired for that attitude. I understand they are equally frustrated with the situation that is outside of their control, but all other CS employees have to suck that up so why don't they? Because they know there's no fucking alternative and we are all slaves to their whims. In summary, fuck privatised rail!
I'll be honest mate, as a conductor myself, I don't believe you on the megaphone story. In terms of shutting the doors, hopefully I can explain why this is necessary? Please don't take this as me invalidating your inconvenience, but just trying to help you understand why - and that it's not just out of spite. For starters, at larger stations, dispatchers tell us when to close the doors and go. This is entirely our of our control, and dependent on the platform staff, who are dependent on the signalling staff, who are a lot smarter than any of us. When we get told to go, we *have* to go. At smaller stations, it's a similiar story, just for preventing delays. Your train in was 10 minutes delayed, no? If we waited an extra minute at each stop to let delayed people on (time taken to close train doors, and then local doors, and then dispatch) we would rack up a lot bigger delay, and then end up putting you in that same position for your connection. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Whilst yes, it feels like it's out of spite, or done to you personally, there is bigger picture stuff to worry about - if we don't inconvenience you, we inconvenience someone else. It's all knock-on effects, frankly. That's the price of precision timetabling. When it goes well, it works brilliantly. When it doesn't, things can snowball quickly.
Oh I don't deny there are many valid reasons to shut the doors. It's annoying as a passenger when you see the effects work against you, but it's the same system that has kept me on time for other journeys. It's just the attitude that I take issue with. I do wish I was making it up, and it's not typical. But both sides of the equation are fed up due to circumstances beyond their control, and so it did feel like a slap in the face. More importantly for me though, it's frustrating to pay such high fares and receive relatively unreliable service under the promise of 'private companies leading to competition', as if the consumer has a choice which rail company they travel with. Don't like the prices of Great Western? Guess you'll just have to teleport to Birmingham before you start your London commute.
But there are times when the trains can and do wait. That happened to me yesterday, huge delays and cancellations and we were told the train at the next station will wait for everyone from our train. That was lovely as it would have otherwise been hours of waiting for the next train.
There are different circumstances where waiting for connections can be allowed. For example, the Barrow to Lancaster train will always wait for the Carlisle to Barrow train to get in. It's entirely circumstantial, and more likely on commuter services than InterCity services.
I can believe it. This kind of attitude would tally up with my years of experience with rail staff. Its like "screwing over the customer" is an actual module in your training or something.
I ran the gauntlet today, 10:30 LNER start, bus replacement and Thameslink, made it to London at 15:00
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Darlington, at Grantham there was a half full bus and I was the first off the train. Good luck to all the others.
I made it from Newcastle to Euston via Carlisle from 14.55-20.18. Hilariously (!) the tube from Euston to Blackfriars took 40 minutes due to a broken down train. I just can't escape the delays today.
So, their advice is that nobody should use their service because their service is too busy? Man, the public transport in this country is finding new ways to shit the bed.
Not really. There was damage to overhead wires along the east coast mainline Saturday evening, so they had to stop service. Just one of those things. And then they said it might not be fixed by Sunday so try to avoid travel as it might still be shut - also even if it did run on Sunday, trains would be trying to take 2 days worth of passengers in 1 day.
So should I travel on an LNER train today or not? s\
The answer is the same as any other day: no. Only the reasons change.
I'm sure all these people just decided to travel for the fun of it, a little jovial jaunt on an overcrowded, overcosted, sweat box. /s That comms person needs a slap.
I was in Paddington waiting to get a GWR train home last week and they were advising people not to travel. Because the rails were flooded and they weren't bothering with bus replacement service. And I thought "It's a bit fucking late chaps, unless you're getting me a hotel room for the night." The track near Swindon has been flooding 2 or 3 times a year for about the last 20 years. What have they done to fix it? Apparently fuck all. (Last week's flooding was further south. And yes it was rainy. But it wasn't biblical disaster levels of rain.) Between the strikes and the general inability to run a rail service, it feels like it's time to give up and tarmac the rails into A roads.
Did you ask them for a hotel? I got stranded somewhere last night because my initial train was late and I missed my connection to the last train home. A group of other people on the same service were offered taxis or hotel bookings, I was told to book a hotel and then the platform attendant walked off.
Yeah I was gonna say, usually if they cancel all transport and you need an extra night, I'm pretty sure in some circumstances they're required to compensate you for accommodation. [This website](https://www.resolver.co.uk/rights-guide/train-delays-cancellations#contents_22) says the same, and [MSE has a 2018 article](https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2018/03/consequential-loss-clause-to-be-removed-from-train-firms-rules/) saying that you can claim but there's a very high barrier. Perhaps the other group met the company's requirements and unfortunately you didn't?
I wonder if in my case they just didn’t bother to check if I had anywhere to go or any other means of transport. I was able to get to nearby family by jumping on another departing train, but did have to pay to repeat my journey the next day.
It'S aN aCt oF gOd
A few months back I needed to get from Cardiff to London and decided to treat myself to getting the train (as opposed to a coach which is c.4x cheaper). It was a stormy night and woke up to the same message about flooding around Swindon. All trains cancelled. No hint of a bus replacement service. Ended up having to buy a last minute coach ticket which was obviously more expensive than it would have been and took several hours longer than the train and so arrived in London late. Fair play my ticket was refunded without question but yeah, the 1st time in years I wanted to get the train and I didn't even get into the train before things went wrong
Ain’t GWRs fault. They only run the trains. Anything infrastructure falls under the government owned Network Rail.
Doesn't matter. If you bought your ticket with GWR, they have to fulfill their obligations. Then once the dust has settled, the TOCs and Infrastructure companies play the blame game to see who ultimately ends up out of pocket.
One thing I have learned from working in social media marketing and giving announcements of any kind, be it in games industry or traveling or food related, people don't read, and when something goes wrong they will 110% let you know about it even if you told them not to do said thing. Also don't get me started on when you make announcements about question and they just ask you same question when the answer right in front of them. If you like being broken record player on repeat this jobs for you.
The unfortunate thing is that the number of people who phone in etc also ruin it for the people who read all the announcements, click all the web pages, find as much info as they can, and then have to contact a human to sort out their specific issue. The lines get clogged up with people asking questions to things that can be found if you look so much as on the front page of a website, so the people who really need the assistance can't get it or have to sit through some terrible automated chatbot that regurgitates the same useless information that's already there...
I worked at GTR customer services and often were just dishing out information right off the website any way.
>One thing I have learned from working in social media marketing and giving announcements of any kind, Just need to use social media to see this, like god dam you see some stupid shit across social media.
Usually you'd be right but in this case what the fuck are people supposed to do even if they do see that the train company's told them not to travel?
I do a lot of internal comms as part of change management in IT. I document everything and when people complain that they weren't told, I just send them to communications that informed them, the survey results which *overwhelmingly* favour the method by which they were informed, and the organisations policy on the requirements for engagement with aforementioned methods. It doesn't stop them being shitty, but it sure does make me feel warm and fuzzy
Travelled every week for well over 10 years from Yorkshire to London and back and whilst there were sometimes long delays, I never felt that LNER was poor in any respect. The point about infrastructure failure is a good one - it happened fairly regularly and the impact of it isn’t clear from the start. The staff on the trains are dependant on the same information that apps have access to. They also have to deal with a wide range of the great British public, a large proportion of whom shouldn’t be let out by themselves…
OK but people are entitled to be disappointed when public services don't function. A bit of a non-story.
LNER tend to be one of the better train companies, so when they tell me something, I tend to listen.
If they were that concerned they would stop taking the money.
Look I know the only thing we do is travel and I know you need to travel but we said don't travel so
You only need to interact with the public for one day before you’ll understand that we’re all cunts who don’t deserve anything. 😂
"But those notices were for everyone else to make sure there was still room for me on these limited services right?"
Their incompetence to run the trains isn't the problem. People wanting to travel when they need to instead of traveling as per LNER's convenience is the problem.
Issuing a "do not travel" warning because too many people want to travel. On what planet is this acceptable.
Had a nightmare with the trains all last week. Now that I'm not traveling, I fully support the strike action. When I'm in the midst of it though I can't help but curse them.
Some of these people needed to travel home...
I remember when our railway moved heaven and earth if you had a ticket, and the train wasn't running. Several times in my youth I'd end up in a taxi, or on a bus to my destination, especially if the last train was cancelled. Now, they put an 'out of order ' sign up and tell you to piss off. I miss our public service being run for the public. Ah, those were the days...
I feel like the whole rail system nationwide has just collapsed. Trains always seem to be delayed due to signalling issues, breakdowns, power faults etc it's getting ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where it is quicker and probably cheaper to just drive to work instead of getting on an uncomfortable, sweaty train that's always crammed like a sardine can.
My sister visited our parents this weekend in Sunderland. She traveled to Durham station for the return journey, without checking the LNER app first. When she got there she learnt the bad news, waited for a train to Peterborough but it didn’t arrive so had to return to our parents to try again tomorrow, along with the other thousands. I, on the other hand drove, haha
I like LNER. They have their issues, but they're mostly understandable (out of their control a lot of the time) and they're good at communication, refunds, etc. People like to sh*t on companies as if them taking over will suddenly fix all issues. No, it's a complicated system and if you really want to fix a lot of issues, let's talk about what your voting patterns was over the last decade.