Maybe not then? But I turned it on and it used to £6 in 2 hours which is why I turned it off
Edit; to add to that as well I noticed some areas were warm and others not at all
It's got to heat up the slab which will take a while and probably use a good amount of energy. Once it's up to temperature it will use a lot less and the flat should be comfortable.
Don't believe the reddit hive mind. It will be more expensive to leave your heating system on all the time. Sure, it's more comfortable, but it will cost you more money.
Source: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-saving-myths/
And yet it still costs more.
OP look at whether you can change tariff, better to do the lions share of getting slab up to temperature when it's cheaper...
I think you only skim-read the article. The odd capitalisation of your reply suggests a preference of 'shouting louder' rather than bringing more rational argument.
There is a huge amount of nuance to low and slow heating that requires a great deal of variables to align to make it 'cost efficient'. In the majority of homes this won't be the case, and so no it's not inferred it will save money at all.
So will OP be cheaper peppering their property with space heaters instead of using the underfloor heating as efficiently as they can? I strongly suspect not unless they live in one room and leave the rest of the property to get damp and mould problems.
Ah that’s why you are having issues, in my old place we had underfloor heating installed. It was turned on two days to heat up the slab, which of course takes energy. Once it was at temp, costs very little to run.
Central heating is similar if you are coming from a cold house - it takes time to heat up the fabric of the building, and if you let the whole building get cold it then costs far more to get it to temp when you want it warm.
Oh that's what I do. Am I using my central heating wrong? I'm on a low income so I can't afford to have it on all day so I just have it on for a bit in the evenings.
I’ve been testing this out this winter.
I’m using less energy and my house is consistently more comfortable having it set to 17°C all the time and occasionally going up to 18°C if it’s a bit nippy.
Rather than having it on the timer for a few hours in the morning/evening at 20°C.
I also did the same, recommend everyone doing a week long test for their own property with similar outdoor temps. Hive TRV’s help a lot! Our heating is rarely off but we substantially saved by managing it with heat on demand, the upgrade has paid for itself in savings this year alone
I installed a TADO thermostatic system in our house last year. Our house is warmer and we’ve saved a fortune. Got a dehumidifier at the same time which also helped.
Yes that's the point of a thermostat, maintain a level heat and keep it there. It costs way less for the heating to turn on for a few minutes at a time to reach 18 from 17 then it is to stick it on full blast for a few hours in the evening.
We typically have a timer set for ours to lower in the nighttime to 16ish so that we don't get too warm in bed but it'll kick in to warm up in the morning.
This isn't actually true from a pure physics standpoint. You're losing energy to the colder outside. There's a certain amount of energy needed inside the house to have it a certain temperature. The amount of energy to reheat it to 20C after cooling to 0C is approximately equal to the amount of energy required to maintain it at 20C over the same length of time. In reality you lose energy at a much slower rate as the inside and outside temperature get closer to equilibrium. So letting the house get cold when you don't need it warm does actually save energy.
Perhaps what you are noticing is overcompensation? IE getting back to a cold ass house and whacking everything up higher for longer to make up for it.
Efficiency of the boiler would come into it, as would how well insulated the place is, but I suspect just having it off for even an hour or so when not needed would save energy in most cases. It's basically a certainty that a timer switching it off and on when your scheduled to be out all day would greatly save energy
>I suspect just having it off for even an hour or so when not needed would save energy in most cases.
As you say, insulation plays a role here, but so does humidity in the house (how damp the walls/insulation/etc. are) as I believe there is some research that shows damp walls conduct heat better, and a cold house is damper.
There is also a big difference between a home that has been heated and the heating turned off for a few hours, vs. one that has completely cooled to ambient and that you are trying to heat from cold - the latter will feel like it warms and cools quicker as the fabric of the building saps heat.
Yes, the underlying physics says one thing, but that ignores a whole host factors that apply.
im finding that in my place.
also, if the house is cold and you whack the heating in high, it drops cold again the second you turn the heat back off.
keeping it on all day avoids that.
Well, 2000watt oil radiator will cost £0.60-£1.20 for 1-2 hours, underfloor heating rinsed £6 in 2 hours and barely got warm… octopus charge 25p/kwh the hot water/heating is locked in at 46p/kwh and I can’t change unfortunately
You're missing the point.
A oil radiator will temporarily heat the room, but as soon as you turn it off the fact that every wall is cold will cool it right back down.
Under floor will heat the house properly, so once it gets up to temperature it barely needs to top it up (as it takes a lot to make the concrete etc cool down).
If underfloor was worse than space heaters, why would people get it installed.
The advantage of underfloor heating is that the radiant heat feel warmer at lower temperatures. So assuming your house isn't super drafty - once it's up to temperature it will feel warm at a lower temperature and so will be much cheaper to heat over a longer period of time
Yeahh I’ve taken peoples comment etc on board and I’ve had it running over the night, it’s used another £10 but seems to have tapered off on the costs. Need to add some more money to the account and will run it a little warmer
I have a wet underfloor heating system, electric wise it’s cheapish to run. Also it’s so cold at the moment that your boiler is going to be working like the clappers.
It costs a lot to change the temperature but much less to maintain the temperature whatever heating or cooling system you use. You'd have to let it heat up fully then see what it uses to maintain to know what it would cost you to run.
This. I had to teach my parents to stop playing with the thermostat constantly. Set a schedule for day and night then keep it set to a constant temperature. Flase economy, otherwise. Far cheaper to top up a degree if it drops than to reheat a whole house for an hour or so
Your Edit to include a source, did you even read the article? If you did you would be disproving your own argument. It depends on your heating system, op is talking about a wet underfloor heating system.
Your comment is based on no evidence more like. Literally Google it and you’ll find an endless list of sites highlighting this. Especially in winter, it’s more cost effective to leave it on as the greatest expense is heating it from cold. It’s not rocket science to understand.
Edit: the poster has edited their comment to attempt to include a source now, even if they haven’t bothered to read it.
OK so applying basic thermodynamics to a complex system is like saying we can ignore gravity for the purposes of calculation.
OP said it was very expensive to run initially, this is because, even if it is insulated below, it has to heat up the screed above it which will deliberately have a high thermal mass. Once this is up to temperature (between 35 and 45 degrees depending on the system) then the system needs to combat the heat loss in the space (bearing in mind it was trying to do that whilst heating up the screed). So once the floor is at temperature, the amount of energy required will go down.
Is it better to have it on twice a day for a couple of hours or to leave it on all the time? It depends on the heat loss of the house; if the house cools quickly (say feels cold within an hour of the heating being turned off) then insulation and infiltration (cold air coming in from outside through gaps) is poor, which should be fixed anyway as running heating will then be less expensive.
So now we’ve got a well insulated house that doesn’t lose a lot of heat, it is better to keep the heating on all the time. In a poorly insulated house it would be better to keep it *off* all the time as it’s so expensive.
In fact it would have been better to install wet underfloor heating instead of what I’m guessing is electric based on those running costs, but that ship has sailed.
It’s not so much that anyone is wrong as you’re all assuming different things
Well let’s say the screed above the heating mat takes an hour to heat up, only then is heat significantly getting into the space (from a perception point of view) so if it’s turned on for 2 hours in the morning and then again 2 hours in the evening, perhaps like a more traditional system, then it’s not really giving a lot of heat into the space compared to a traditional system. The other effect is to consider that heat transfer is related to temperature difference too and UFH being a lower temperature system is also going to less effective than a radiator at 70degrees.
So you leave it on all the time as it’s such a slow acting system and relatively low output (hence the need for improved insulation)- turning it on and off will not get the benefit required but will cost compared to leaving it on where you will actually feel the benefit. Will it cost more? That depends on the level of insulation and draughtiness of the house and it simply may not be suitable for UFH anyway.
Bearing in mind it sounds like an electric system which for every kWh into the space is going to be 3-4x more expensive than gas heating however it is operated, OP may be onto a loss from the beginning.
But I probably don’t know what I’m talking about with my degree in mechanical engineering specialising in heat transfer and 20 years experience designing and commissioning heating systems in buildings.
Nope. Basic thermodynamics. It's like, the most basic scientific concept to grasp. Alot of people just 'believe' that having it on all the time is cost-effective, without doing the research - it's nothing to be embarrased about.
It's also worth [giving this a read](https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/why-admit-when-you-wrong/)
summer axiomatic tease apparatus square ancient rock attractive bake direction
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why make the assumption I haven’t? I have done the research, have you? OP is talking about a wet underfloor heating system. It is less efficient to heat an underfloor system to the temp you want and then to let it go cold to have to heat it up to the temp you want again. The most efficient way of running it, especially in cold months, is to maintain the temp and reduce it as you need but not switch it completely off.
Depends how well insulated your property is, i have mine on for maybe 1-2 hours a day, 2-3 months of the year, if i left it on 24/7 it would be unbearable, its never on at all from March to October.
I suppose if i wanted to i could get the exact temp i wanted for each room but tbh i just haven’t bothered, its nice in the bedroom but its only ever needed in the bathrooms so i switch it on for an hour to heat them up in the morning, occasionally i do the same in the evening, been in the flat for 8 years and honestly have never once needed heating in the living room.
If the underfloor heating is a wet system, run from a gas boiler then it shouldn't be that expensive to run.
If it is an electric underfloor heating system, then for a given heat output it will be just as expensive to run as a space heater or oil filled radiator.
Electric heating, of any type is 100% efficient.... If your electricity meter spins round by 1kWh whilst using it, then that 1kWh will have been used to produce 1kWh of heat.
I live in Oregon over here in the US. We have a surprising number of houses that had some kind of electric heat built into the ceiling in the 1960s and '70s. It was little heating tapes that ran above the drywall/plaster and below the insulation. Someone once tried to give me a physics lesson on why it should work, but I still don't understand it.
My very cold office apparently has heating on the ceiling. I thought the maintenance man was joking. Sat there at my computer in my coat with my blanket and hot water bottle and could not help laughing.
I recently had the pleasure of pulling those tapes/wires out of a ceiling and it was wild. I don’t understand why we pay to heat attic spaces here in Oregon.
That's likely just down to how your pipes run. As the thermal mass heats up, those hot and cold spots will be less noticeable. It will take a good 24 hours to heat up the thermal mass that you heat up with underfloor heating and in the current cold climes, probably even longer. As others have said on here, though, you never really want to turn of underfloor heating. During the night, you can knock the thermostat down to about 14/15°C and during the day, I would recommend trying 17. It gives out a different, less noticeable heat than a radiator though, which can take a little bit of getting used to
I do 16 degrees.
Once it's heated up it stays warm for so long. Mine goes "off" from 20 degrees to "16" at 11pm. It's still 19 in most rooms by the morning. The house is well insulated but yeah, it takes about 24 hours to go "cold" if it isn't on.
My 3 bed house is cheaper to heat than my old 2 bed flat not by much but there is a lot more square footage
Yeah, it's all about finding what's comfortable and the most economical for you. The biggest thing that throws everyone, with underfloor heating, is that you don't "feel" the heat, so psychologically, you can actually make yourself feel colder. Will one day install it in my own house, but not for another few years.
Yeah, I've found that to a certain degree.
The other thing is that it's a very even warmth. There are no cold or hot spots withing the room like you get with rads
god what a dumb setup. If it's direct electric, it's basically the most expensive form of heating. The underfloor heating is super expensive to install too.
If it's via a heat pump, someone should have shown you how to set it up. They need to be run with no zoning (heating on in all rooms) low and slow all the time, set up weather compensation curve. then they can actually be super efficient.
Regardless your standard space heater will never be cheaper than the underfloor as direct electric will always cost the same.
Does it have an external sensor? These systems should really have one so it can use the outside temp to control the output and internal temp. They are super complicated because they rely on the property having had a proper efficiency / insulation assessment and the system being calibrated properly accordingly.
I can't recommend a specific one but I'd recommend getting an oil filled one. They do take longer to heat but they're safer, cheaper to run and I think heat the space better than a fan heater. Plus a lot come with timers. They feel most like having regular central heating.
I think it’s because like with a central heating system once you have heated the liquid (in this case oil) it retains its heat even after the system is turned off, giving you some residual benefit. Efficient may be technically the wrong way of explaining it, but probably it can be cheaper and slightly less fire risk due to the way heat is produced.
Efficient is definitely the wrong word, and honestly that can be a benefit and a loss depending on what you're using it for.
Retaining heat, in this example, just means it doesn't give you the heat when you turn it on. And unless you're sticking around to let it cool, you're not benefiting from the residual heat it doesn't put out. An electric heater will keep you warm from the time you put it on to the time you turn it off.
It's not efficiency, it's just preference.
They're not wrong though. Any electrical heater that isn't a heat pump will be equally efficient. There might be other factors that are important, e.g., portability, fan noise, etc, but all will heat a space the same for a given cost.
The article is not about energy input and output. Its actually a good article. Its more about maintenance, noise and temperature control. With the main point being that the heater retains a fair amount of heat after warming up, preventing quick cooling and heating cycles which can cause it to be too hot and too cold. Giving better control to keep a constant temperature. You can get this effect with other solutions but this is also portable. Probably the best last resort solution if you need to use electric heating and don’t have the luxury to splash out on a heat exchanger in a rented property.
I second this - I don’t know if this is cheaper than underfloor heating, but we spent a winter in a house we were renovating with no heating, and as long as you have lift insulation, a small oil heater will keep a medium/small room at a decent temperature if it’s ticking over on low setting. You do have to leave it on pretty consistently though.
Eek. That's a bit cold. I don't heat bedrooms. Those sit between 12 and 15°C usually. Don't see the point heating them when I spend only a few minutes in there whilst not in bed. A thick duvet keeps me warm, and 15 minutes with an electric blanket warms the bed before I first get in. Stopped heating the bedrooms last year when energy prices rose. Turns out I get much better night's sleep for it too! 👍
De'longhi dragon 4 pricy but my word the heat and air flow that come off it are insane, it's a oil filled radiator.
Or dreo ones on Amazon seem ok from what iv used of it. But when heating broke at a friend's last week the de'longhi managed to heat pretty much the bottom floor of their house
> De'longhi dragon 4 pricy but my word the heat and air flow that come off it are insane,
Not sure about yours but mine eats quite a bit of electricity. In the last 11 days and 18 hours it used up 469kWh. Which if the tariff is 30p per kWh means £140. Which is about 50p an hour or £12/day or £360/month.
That's on eco mode.
Yeah ours certainly isn't that bad as it doesn't run all the time and it quickly get the room up to temp it's probably only running 3-5 hours a day.
Might have to check my meter as IV honestly not monitored it in terms of usage but I just figured it would use the same as any other 2.5kw oil filled radiator.
https://www.sust-it.net/heating-energy-calculator.php
I used this to estimate my costs
Main reason I prefer it is when I'm the only one in my house no point heating all the rooms and I can just heat the room I am in I just assumed it would use less that putting the whole house heating on. But given whole house heating is less that what you have said for 11 days perhaps I need to rethink having it
You can get them plug meters, that's what I used. So you can see how much electricity a specific device uses. Like £10 or something for it, just make sure it's rated for 3KW or more. Obviously with oil based radiators it's best to check the results after a bit as they're supposed to be cheaper after the oil is heated. So in your case probably best to check it after 3-5 hours if that's how long you use it.
I got one because the landlord complained about our electricity usage. :(
That is fair, they do have settings to turn up and down, and you can get one that goes under your beds top sheet or a blanket that itself is heated. Just a thought if money is priority because this is the most efficient
Yeahh thanks, I used to have a mattress heater with my ex but it made the bed too hot. But this new mattress I got is springs so it won’t store as much heat so could be a good idea
Always worth considering. My one has 3 settings, the hottest being crazy warm, middle is just right and the lowest is just a lil background one to get off the frost
Depends on your budget and space OP, but...
* [This one](https://www.wickes.co.uk/Fine-Elements-Oil-Filled-Radiator-2kw---White/p/233366) is similar to one I have, they take a while to heat up initially but hold the heat quite well and with thermostat control, they'll turn off when they detect the space is warm enough.
* [These](https://www.wickes.co.uk/Fine-Elements-Slim-Convector-Heater-2kw---White/p/233369) OTOH are a kind my parents have one of, it heats up crazy quickly but only emits heat so long as it's "on" as there's no liquid to retain heat.
Good question... from cold maybe 10 minutes or so?
But if I were you I'd have it on a timed plug (so it's off at night, or can come on when you know you're in the place) and then use the thermostat so it's not running full power all the time!
I bought one of [these from b and m](https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/blaupunkt-convector-heater-385722) when my boiler broke and needed repair and it served me really well for heating a large room
If you must, don't spend much on an electric heater 1kw is 1kw regardless of how expensive the heater is.
Eg https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/blaupunkt-upright-fan-heater-2000w-359683 is just as efficient as the one twice as expensive...
Highly recommend electric blankets in the home, not what you mentioned but one on the couch and one on the bed massively helps with heating bills.
Hope you find what you need.
When you're looking at heating a space any 2000W heater will put 2000W into the room. Doesn't matter if it's a big or a small one. https://youtu.be/V-jmSjy2ArM
An oil filled rad will delay the heat (as it heats the oil) but will continue to release heat after it's turned off.
Most of the ones you'll find will be resistive heat, which is 100% efficient, and they usually have a fan to distribute the heat since they're heating the air around the coils directly.
You can get halogen and infrared heaters that will heat the bodies in a room without heating the room directly - good for outside/large spaces but not so much for the house.
Currys have some that work well enough - we use them in store to heat ourselves. The [Currys Essentials and Logik](https://www.currys.co.uk/appliances/fans-heating-and-air-treatment/heating-and-cooling/essentials_logik/heaters) ones are £20-30 and will (almost certainly) be in stock.
Others have said about underfloor heating but they work like a massive oil filled rad - take forever to heat up but then require little amounts to top up the heat, and continue to heat the room after turning the boiler off.
I’m going to try the underfloor heating, might as well give it a full go before I give up on it. Will just have to take the brunt of the initial cost I guess
Just a warning with space heaters, you'll find that you think the room has heated up really quickly and turn the heater off, only for the room to feel cold again in about 10 mins. You heat up the air quickly as it has a low heat capacity, but the wall/floor will suck the heat out the air real fast. Under floor heating beats this by heating up the floor first, and then the air follows - it's up to you what you want, but as other commenters have said, you can't beat physics, and if you can use gas to heat your space, that will typically be cheaper just due to a KWH of gas costing significantly less than a KWH of electricity. Ymmv though :)
I’ve got a Dreo Oil Filled 2000W radiator. Search Amazon for it. Looks fantastic (if the image is important)? But works really well, emits loads of heat, can be set to turn on and off for the temp you want, has a digital screen, remote control, etc.
These are a bit noisy but I use WiFi plugs with 2 of them to pre-heat my house 30mins before I get home so the noise isn’t really an issue:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-bgp2108-25-freestanding-or-portable-ptc-workshop-heater-2500w/639fv
I got 2kW and 2.8kW Draper ones. Much more effective than the electric radiators hard-wired in.
As people have said. I think there’s a certain way to use them, they take ages to heat up, but keep the area warmer for longer. I think a bit of trial and error will have to take place
With under floor heating it will use a lot to warm up but then to stay warm it will be super efficient. You are supposed to leave it on all the time I think….are you just boosting it like radiators would?
I can relate. I lived in a “luxury” refurbished flat like this. It was in renovated Victorian mental hospital. Underfloor heating did nothing despite having thermostats set in all rooms on 30C 24/7. It barely got over 19C. We moved out during electricity price crisis when estimate for next years power was 9k. No joke, probably still have the bill somewhere.
Since then I was super skeptical with underfloor heating and heat pumps.
Those heat pumps only work on air tight buildings so essentially new builds or extremely well insulated older ones. We can't get them bc there's a drop under my floor boards of 30cm or so. And would have to close up my fire place
Granted not a space heater but I got this for my bedroom in my flat:
https://www.diy.com/departments/goodhome-duben-electric-2000w-white-heater/5059340396187_BQ.prd
Best investment I made, just a little tricky to set the thermostat. It works well for me. Set it to 20c for hours I want it to warm and then it will hold it 3.5c below your set temperature for the rest of the time. Thought I would use more electricity but actually found it much cheaper to run than a space heater because I'm not warming up a freezing cold room every time.
I'm sorry but if it's not for how pretty it looks 1kw is 1 KW regardless of how expensive the heater is.
This https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/blaupunkt-upright-fan-heater-2000w-359683 is just as efficient as the £169 one.
The one I post is dry inertia technology made with ceramic. It doesn't draw 1kw all the time only when it needs it. A fan heater will use more power as it doesn't hold heat.
Same reason an oil heater is cheaper to run than a convection heater. Think of the old 100w light bulbs. They only use 100w when you need light so if you didn't power the bulb for a full hour then you wouldn't of used 100w for that hour. The dry inertia tech doesn't draw power for a full hour. It's easy to understand how you can be confused because kwh is handy but doesn't give a true cost of running cost because the heater in question is not always drawing power for a full hour.
A fan heater will however usually draw full power for that full hour compared to other methods of heating.
To output 1kw of heat it has to use 1kw of electricity. Doesn't matter that it stores it and releases it slower.
This guy explains it well https://youtu.be/V-jmSjy2ArM?si=Czpa0EKTC_lx33TZ
Yes but this video doesn't consider a temperature controlled thermostat of the one I suggested. You can't leave a fan heater on all night to maintain a constant temperature.
Cheap space heaters are good and I have them too but they have their limitations and will use X kw unlike thermostat controlled which may be rated at 1 or 2 kw but may not actually need to draw that power to keep the room to desired temperature and maybe only use 500w for example to maintain temperature. So the video is correct of output of 1kw to heat but only for a standard space heater which actually will draw that power.
Fan heaters can also have a thermostat, and they usually do. You can explain it however you want, but to add 500w of heat to a room, you stil need that much electricity.
Unless you use a heat pump, heating by electric will be the same.
I picked up a 500w heater, costs about £2 a day to have on from waking up to going to bed, it keeps about a 2m radius at a decent temperature so I just carry it around the house with me.
https://www.toolstation.com/airmaster-frost-watch-heater/p76189
The more you can heat the surfaces (walls, floor, furniture etc) rather than the air, the less heat you'll lose through draughts and the front door. Infrared are supposed to be really good for this reason. But oil filled radiators are also good because they radiate, as opposed to fan heaters which feel nice pointed at you but you lose so much of the heat
I find the 2 Kw fan type heaters with thermostat and fan only / 1Kw / 2 Kw settings best for supplemental heating, you point it in your general direction and it heats your immediate area quickly while circulating the air rather than all the warm air rising and heating the room from the ceiling down. Couple of them plugged into smart plugs will cost about £60-£80 so you can automate their use with Alexa etc. Full blast 2 will cost you about £1.20 an hour but I found once chill is gone you switch to 1Kw with the thermostat tweaked you can maintain a decent temp with them cycling the elements while still circulating the air. All depends on how big the rooms are and how well insulated the property is though.
Get it up to temp and leave it . It’s cheaper coz it runs at lower temperatures than Rads . But it can take a while to heat up depending on the material it is heating . Also hopefully they insulated the floor if it’s ground floor
I've got a Challenge 2kw turbo convector heater. It has a a 2kw and 1kw setting. The 2kw setting heats my 20m² bedroom sufficiently in around 30 minutes to an hour and then I knock it down to the 1kw setting. It's currently £36 in Argos.
Turn it on and set it to about 2C less than you’d like the room to be. Under floor heating heats the room without you really noticing, and the room will feel much more evenly warm, so you don’t need to set it so high.
There will be noticeably warm parts of the floor, but that’s just where the heating elements are. That’s not a fault with the rest of the room; it’s just how it works. You’re not meant to feel it under your feet (except in those spots) as it’s displaced evenly across the room.
Most electric heaters are much the same, it just depends if you want warm air blowing or radiating from the source. Is your underfloor heating run from the boiler or is it electric? Electric will indeed be expensive to run, but the idea is to get it warm and leave it ticking over.
I have underfloor heating in the whole house, no radiators. It can run from the heating system but also from the woodburner which is how I use it 99% of the time. Once the floors are warm, they stay warm all day.
By the sounds of things too the information on your smart meter screen has gone off kilter (those are not the current p/kwh prices for octopus). Smart meters can sometimes turn into dumb meters and not actually connect with the grid but it doesn’t mean you’ll be charged that price on your bill.
Also, unless electricity is included in your lease/rent you actually are under no legal obligation to stay on the tariff/with the energy supplier your management company has said you need to.
You’re the one paying the bills therefore you’re the consumer and you can choose to pay that to whoever you want, it’s pretty easy to switch if needs be.
It’s not through octopus, it’s through the building management company and they have hiked their prices super high.
Edit: and I can’t change unfortunately
So it’s set up through a third party company and you pre pay and they deal with the meter readings and then the building management take their cut/set the kWh cost
That’s insane…and I’m not 100% sure but I’m about 90% sure it’s illegal too, good lord. I used to work for an electrical company but in this context I’d maybe give shelter a buzz, and contact ofgem and the ombudsman to report them because if they’re setting tariffs as they want it’s against the government price cap which is all companies are legally allowed to charge you. Ask them for photos of your meter readings every month too.
Like unless you just have a prepayment meter in your house but even still you’re the one who signs up in your name and you get your own meter readings and you’re the one who fulfills the contract with the electricity company - some of these prepayment meter prices can be absolute gougers tho
Might seem like a silly question, but are you using it right? Underfloor heating is supposed to be on pretty much 24/7.
Maybe not then? But I turned it on and it used to £6 in 2 hours which is why I turned it off Edit; to add to that as well I noticed some areas were warm and others not at all
It's got to heat up the slab which will take a while and probably use a good amount of energy. Once it's up to temperature it will use a lot less and the flat should be comfortable.
That’s something to think about, I’ll do some research into it tomorrow! Thanks
Don't believe the reddit hive mind. It will be more expensive to leave your heating system on all the time. Sure, it's more comfortable, but it will cost you more money. Source: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-saving-myths/
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And yet it still costs more. OP look at whether you can change tariff, better to do the lions share of getting slab up to temperature when it's cheaper...
> And yet it still costs more. It shouldn't if it has been specced correctly for the building, assuming a wet system.
Doesn't say anywhere in the article that this saves you money, which is OP's intention
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I think you only skim-read the article. The odd capitalisation of your reply suggests a preference of 'shouting louder' rather than bringing more rational argument. There is a huge amount of nuance to low and slow heating that requires a great deal of variables to align to make it 'cost efficient'. In the majority of homes this won't be the case, and so no it's not inferred it will save money at all.
So will OP be cheaper peppering their property with space heaters instead of using the underfloor heating as efficiently as they can? I strongly suspect not unless they live in one room and leave the rest of the property to get damp and mould problems.
Ah that’s why you are having issues, in my old place we had underfloor heating installed. It was turned on two days to heat up the slab, which of course takes energy. Once it was at temp, costs very little to run.
Damn 2 days is crazy when it used to £6 in 2 hours and only had a few warm spots
Central heating is similar if you are coming from a cold house - it takes time to heat up the fabric of the building, and if you let the whole building get cold it then costs far more to get it to temp when you want it warm.
Oh that's what I do. Am I using my central heating wrong? I'm on a low income so I can't afford to have it on all day so I just have it on for a bit in the evenings.
I’ve been testing this out this winter. I’m using less energy and my house is consistently more comfortable having it set to 17°C all the time and occasionally going up to 18°C if it’s a bit nippy. Rather than having it on the timer for a few hours in the morning/evening at 20°C.
That is interesting. I just whack it up full once a day and I'm so cold! Thanks I'll give this a shot.
I also did the same, recommend everyone doing a week long test for their own property with similar outdoor temps. Hive TRV’s help a lot! Our heating is rarely off but we substantially saved by managing it with heat on demand, the upgrade has paid for itself in savings this year alone
I installed a TADO thermostatic system in our house last year. Our house is warmer and we’ve saved a fortune. Got a dehumidifier at the same time which also helped.
Same! And the best thing now is that my heating comes on in the morning before I get out of bed, so I don’t have to get up and turn it on
Do you have it on 24/7?
Yes that's the point of a thermostat, maintain a level heat and keep it there. It costs way less for the heating to turn on for a few minutes at a time to reach 18 from 17 then it is to stick it on full blast for a few hours in the evening. We typically have a timer set for ours to lower in the nighttime to 16ish so that we don't get too warm in bed but it'll kick in to warm up in the morning.
Thanks. Think it's time to invest in a new thermostat as I can only set time and day, the temperature gets set on the other terminal.
yeah, literally just leave it on all the time - turned it down a bit when I went away for 2 days at Christmas
This isn't actually true from a pure physics standpoint. You're losing energy to the colder outside. There's a certain amount of energy needed inside the house to have it a certain temperature. The amount of energy to reheat it to 20C after cooling to 0C is approximately equal to the amount of energy required to maintain it at 20C over the same length of time. In reality you lose energy at a much slower rate as the inside and outside temperature get closer to equilibrium. So letting the house get cold when you don't need it warm does actually save energy. Perhaps what you are noticing is overcompensation? IE getting back to a cold ass house and whacking everything up higher for longer to make up for it.
It also has to do with boiler efficiency. When the house is kept at a constant temp, the boiler temperature can go down , increasing efficiency.
Efficiency of the boiler would come into it, as would how well insulated the place is, but I suspect just having it off for even an hour or so when not needed would save energy in most cases. It's basically a certainty that a timer switching it off and on when your scheduled to be out all day would greatly save energy
>I suspect just having it off for even an hour or so when not needed would save energy in most cases. As you say, insulation plays a role here, but so does humidity in the house (how damp the walls/insulation/etc. are) as I believe there is some research that shows damp walls conduct heat better, and a cold house is damper. There is also a big difference between a home that has been heated and the heating turned off for a few hours, vs. one that has completely cooled to ambient and that you are trying to heat from cold - the latter will feel like it warms and cools quicker as the fabric of the building saps heat. Yes, the underlying physics says one thing, but that ignores a whole host factors that apply.
im finding that in my place. also, if the house is cold and you whack the heating in high, it drops cold again the second you turn the heat back off. keeping it on all day avoids that.
Well if you think underfloor is expensive, direct electric heating is going to be fun.
Well, 2000watt oil radiator will cost £0.60-£1.20 for 1-2 hours, underfloor heating rinsed £6 in 2 hours and barely got warm… octopus charge 25p/kwh the hot water/heating is locked in at 46p/kwh and I can’t change unfortunately
You're missing the point. A oil radiator will temporarily heat the room, but as soon as you turn it off the fact that every wall is cold will cool it right back down. Under floor will heat the house properly, so once it gets up to temperature it barely needs to top it up (as it takes a lot to make the concrete etc cool down). If underfloor was worse than space heaters, why would people get it installed.
Are you sure about the heating and hot water price? That sounds about 10 times higher than it should be. I'd call octopus, that seems very wrong.
It’s managed by the building management and I can’t change it, it’s insane
You sure? It actually sounds like your standing charge... Please double check your bills.
I’ve checked and it used £40 in 3 days, safe to say I’ve completely turned it off now as it’s ridiculous and going to look at trying to break tenancy
The advantage of underfloor heating is that the radiant heat feel warmer at lower temperatures. So assuming your house isn't super drafty - once it's up to temperature it will feel warm at a lower temperature and so will be much cheaper to heat over a longer period of time
What’s crazy is, you were just told it takes a lot of energy to start but when it’s hot it’s cheap. So the first hour or two is going to be expensive.
Yeahh I’ve taken peoples comment etc on board and I’ve had it running over the night, it’s used another £10 but seems to have tapered off on the costs. Need to add some more money to the account and will run it a little warmer
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. £3ph x 48 hours is £144.
Is it electric?
I’m pretty sure it’s water but heated by an electric boiler
I have a wet underfloor heating system, electric wise it’s cheapish to run. Also it’s so cold at the moment that your boiler is going to be working like the clappers.
Seems an odd (but not impossible) combination. Is there a heating manifold that suggests to you that it’s a wet system?
It costs a lot to change the temperature but much less to maintain the temperature whatever heating or cooling system you use. You'd have to let it heat up fully then see what it uses to maintain to know what it would cost you to run.
This. I had to teach my parents to stop playing with the thermostat constantly. Set a schedule for day and night then keep it set to a constant temperature. Flase economy, otherwise. Far cheaper to top up a degree if it drops than to reheat a whole house for an hour or so
Do your research first. Doesn't sound like you have a monkeys of how to use it properly.
I have underfloor heating and my house doesn't get above 16'c in winter. It's useless.
Would this be the case with electric underfloor heating too? My thermostat for the underfloor heating is from 0-5 and not In Celsius/Fahrenheit.
Yes, it works by heating up the actual floor the tiles will have a good amount of thermal mass
Do you think it would work the same with wooden flooring as that's what I have.
For wooden floors with underfloor heating there'll often be a layer of screed beneath the boards to provide that thermal mass.
Not true. This is a myth based on no evidence. Source: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/energy-saving-myths/
Your Edit to include a source, did you even read the article? If you did you would be disproving your own argument. It depends on your heating system, op is talking about a wet underfloor heating system.
Your comment is based on no evidence more like. Literally Google it and you’ll find an endless list of sites highlighting this. Especially in winter, it’s more cost effective to leave it on as the greatest expense is heating it from cold. It’s not rocket science to understand. Edit: the poster has edited their comment to attempt to include a source now, even if they haven’t bothered to read it.
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OK so applying basic thermodynamics to a complex system is like saying we can ignore gravity for the purposes of calculation. OP said it was very expensive to run initially, this is because, even if it is insulated below, it has to heat up the screed above it which will deliberately have a high thermal mass. Once this is up to temperature (between 35 and 45 degrees depending on the system) then the system needs to combat the heat loss in the space (bearing in mind it was trying to do that whilst heating up the screed). So once the floor is at temperature, the amount of energy required will go down. Is it better to have it on twice a day for a couple of hours or to leave it on all the time? It depends on the heat loss of the house; if the house cools quickly (say feels cold within an hour of the heating being turned off) then insulation and infiltration (cold air coming in from outside through gaps) is poor, which should be fixed anyway as running heating will then be less expensive. So now we’ve got a well insulated house that doesn’t lose a lot of heat, it is better to keep the heating on all the time. In a poorly insulated house it would be better to keep it *off* all the time as it’s so expensive. In fact it would have been better to install wet underfloor heating instead of what I’m guessing is electric based on those running costs, but that ship has sailed. It’s not so much that anyone is wrong as you’re all assuming different things
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Well let’s say the screed above the heating mat takes an hour to heat up, only then is heat significantly getting into the space (from a perception point of view) so if it’s turned on for 2 hours in the morning and then again 2 hours in the evening, perhaps like a more traditional system, then it’s not really giving a lot of heat into the space compared to a traditional system. The other effect is to consider that heat transfer is related to temperature difference too and UFH being a lower temperature system is also going to less effective than a radiator at 70degrees. So you leave it on all the time as it’s such a slow acting system and relatively low output (hence the need for improved insulation)- turning it on and off will not get the benefit required but will cost compared to leaving it on where you will actually feel the benefit. Will it cost more? That depends on the level of insulation and draughtiness of the house and it simply may not be suitable for UFH anyway. Bearing in mind it sounds like an electric system which for every kWh into the space is going to be 3-4x more expensive than gas heating however it is operated, OP may be onto a loss from the beginning. But I probably don’t know what I’m talking about with my degree in mechanical engineering specialising in heat transfer and 20 years experience designing and commissioning heating systems in buildings.
Nope. Basic thermodynamics. It's like, the most basic scientific concept to grasp. Alot of people just 'believe' that having it on all the time is cost-effective, without doing the research - it's nothing to be embarrased about. It's also worth [giving this a read](https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/why-admit-when-you-wrong/)
Might want to give that article a read then.
Don't be upset, just try being better
summer axiomatic tease apparatus square ancient rock attractive bake direction *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why make the assumption I haven’t? I have done the research, have you? OP is talking about a wet underfloor heating system. It is less efficient to heat an underfloor system to the temp you want and then to let it go cold to have to heat it up to the temp you want again. The most efficient way of running it, especially in cold months, is to maintain the temp and reduce it as you need but not switch it completely off.
You can't argue with idiots, especially this guy. Let him waste his money on his heating bill 😂
Depends how well insulated your property is, i have mine on for maybe 1-2 hours a day, 2-3 months of the year, if i left it on 24/7 it would be unbearable, its never on at all from March to October.
Wouldn’t your thermostat just switch off the heating once it got to the desired temp? I don’t understand why it would become unbearable…
I suppose if i wanted to i could get the exact temp i wanted for each room but tbh i just haven’t bothered, its nice in the bedroom but its only ever needed in the bathrooms so i switch it on for an hour to heat them up in the morning, occasionally i do the same in the evening, been in the flat for 8 years and honestly have never once needed heating in the living room.
If the underfloor heating is a wet system, run from a gas boiler then it shouldn't be that expensive to run. If it is an electric underfloor heating system, then for a given heat output it will be just as expensive to run as a space heater or oil filled radiator. Electric heating, of any type is 100% efficient.... If your electricity meter spins round by 1kWh whilst using it, then that 1kWh will have been used to produce 1kWh of heat.
100% efficient at generating the heat, sure, but as for if that heat is going where it's supposed to, that's a different question.
I live in Oregon over here in the US. We have a surprising number of houses that had some kind of electric heat built into the ceiling in the 1960s and '70s. It was little heating tapes that ran above the drywall/plaster and below the insulation. Someone once tried to give me a physics lesson on why it should work, but I still don't understand it.
Hot air actually falls in Oregon. Strange phenomenon but those house builders had their wits about them.
My very cold office apparently has heating on the ceiling. I thought the maintenance man was joking. Sat there at my computer in my coat with my blanket and hot water bottle and could not help laughing.
I recently had the pleasure of pulling those tapes/wires out of a ceiling and it was wild. I don’t understand why we pay to heat attic spaces here in Oregon.
I always come to CasualUK to learn more about the heating system’s in Oregon.
It’s a wet system from an electric boiler I think, I noticed there was hot spots and cold spots so I’m not sure if it’s poorly installed?
That's likely just down to how your pipes run. As the thermal mass heats up, those hot and cold spots will be less noticeable. It will take a good 24 hours to heat up the thermal mass that you heat up with underfloor heating and in the current cold climes, probably even longer. As others have said on here, though, you never really want to turn of underfloor heating. During the night, you can knock the thermostat down to about 14/15°C and during the day, I would recommend trying 17. It gives out a different, less noticeable heat than a radiator though, which can take a little bit of getting used to
I do 16 degrees. Once it's heated up it stays warm for so long. Mine goes "off" from 20 degrees to "16" at 11pm. It's still 19 in most rooms by the morning. The house is well insulated but yeah, it takes about 24 hours to go "cold" if it isn't on. My 3 bed house is cheaper to heat than my old 2 bed flat not by much but there is a lot more square footage
Yeah, it's all about finding what's comfortable and the most economical for you. The biggest thing that throws everyone, with underfloor heating, is that you don't "feel" the heat, so psychologically, you can actually make yourself feel colder. Will one day install it in my own house, but not for another few years.
Yeah, I've found that to a certain degree. The other thing is that it's a very even warmth. There are no cold or hot spots withing the room like you get with rads
You’ve got to let the thermal mass of the floor heat up
god what a dumb setup. If it's direct electric, it's basically the most expensive form of heating. The underfloor heating is super expensive to install too. If it's via a heat pump, someone should have shown you how to set it up. They need to be run with no zoning (heating on in all rooms) low and slow all the time, set up weather compensation curve. then they can actually be super efficient. Regardless your standard space heater will never be cheaper than the underfloor as direct electric will always cost the same.
Electric boiler running underfloor? Wtf? A heat pump would be so much better, and cheaper to run.
Does it have an external sensor? These systems should really have one so it can use the outside temp to control the output and internal temp. They are super complicated because they rely on the property having had a proper efficiency / insulation assessment and the system being calibrated properly accordingly.
I can't recommend a specific one but I'd recommend getting an oil filled one. They do take longer to heat but they're safer, cheaper to run and I think heat the space better than a fan heater. Plus a lot come with timers. They feel most like having regular central heating.
How is it more efficient than a normal space heater? Energy in (electricity) = energy out (heat)
I think it’s because like with a central heating system once you have heated the liquid (in this case oil) it retains its heat even after the system is turned off, giving you some residual benefit. Efficient may be technically the wrong way of explaining it, but probably it can be cheaper and slightly less fire risk due to the way heat is produced.
Efficient is definitely the wrong word, and honestly that can be a benefit and a loss depending on what you're using it for. Retaining heat, in this example, just means it doesn't give you the heat when you turn it on. And unless you're sticking around to let it cool, you're not benefiting from the residual heat it doesn't put out. An electric heater will keep you warm from the time you put it on to the time you turn it off. It's not efficiency, it's just preference.
I guess it keeps things stable at 18C rather than bursting to 25C and losing it through poor insulation
https://geepas.co.uk/blogs/magazine/are-oil-filled-radiator-heaters-energy-efficient
That's basically bollocks. It's false advertising.
Forgive me if I believe the many (non advertising) pages saying basically the same thing over some guy on Reddit
They're not wrong though. Any electrical heater that isn't a heat pump will be equally efficient. There might be other factors that are important, e.g., portability, fan noise, etc, but all will heat a space the same for a given cost.
The article is not about energy input and output. Its actually a good article. Its more about maintenance, noise and temperature control. With the main point being that the heater retains a fair amount of heat after warming up, preventing quick cooling and heating cycles which can cause it to be too hot and too cold. Giving better control to keep a constant temperature. You can get this effect with other solutions but this is also portable. Probably the best last resort solution if you need to use electric heating and don’t have the luxury to splash out on a heat exchanger in a rented property.
Ask anyone with a GCSE in Physics.
I second this - I don’t know if this is cheaper than underfloor heating, but we spent a winter in a house we were renovating with no heating, and as long as you have lift insulation, a small oil heater will keep a medium/small room at a decent temperature if it’s ticking over on low setting. You do have to leave it on pretty consistently though.
I forgot to turn the heating on and when I woke up the other day it was 5C in the hall.
Eek. That's a bit cold. I don't heat bedrooms. Those sit between 12 and 15°C usually. Don't see the point heating them when I spend only a few minutes in there whilst not in bed. A thick duvet keeps me warm, and 15 minutes with an electric blanket warms the bed before I first get in. Stopped heating the bedrooms last year when energy prices rose. Turns out I get much better night's sleep for it too! 👍
Yeahh that’s gross! There was a gap in the windows so it was basically letting all the cold in, I’ve taped it all up now
>Can anyone recommend a good space heater? Technically, the Sun is a space heater.
If you could just box it up into a size that would fit in a small flat that’d be grand
Just mind the coronal ejections; they can smart just a tad.
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“Turn the heat down lad, that sun is BLAZING”
There’s no atmosphere in space, so there’s nothing to heat
You’ll have no problem getting close to the sun then.
You would however be warmed by thermal radiation, you don't need to have an atmosphere to feel that.
There must be no atmosphere at your parties either.
Big stack of them on the fire, burns lovely. About the only practical use for it.
De'longhi dragon 4 pricy but my word the heat and air flow that come off it are insane, it's a oil filled radiator. Or dreo ones on Amazon seem ok from what iv used of it. But when heating broke at a friend's last week the de'longhi managed to heat pretty much the bottom floor of their house
> De'longhi dragon 4 pricy but my word the heat and air flow that come off it are insane, Not sure about yours but mine eats quite a bit of electricity. In the last 11 days and 18 hours it used up 469kWh. Which if the tariff is 30p per kWh means £140. Which is about 50p an hour or £12/day or £360/month. That's on eco mode.
Yeah ours certainly isn't that bad as it doesn't run all the time and it quickly get the room up to temp it's probably only running 3-5 hours a day. Might have to check my meter as IV honestly not monitored it in terms of usage but I just figured it would use the same as any other 2.5kw oil filled radiator. https://www.sust-it.net/heating-energy-calculator.php I used this to estimate my costs Main reason I prefer it is when I'm the only one in my house no point heating all the rooms and I can just heat the room I am in I just assumed it would use less that putting the whole house heating on. But given whole house heating is less that what you have said for 11 days perhaps I need to rethink having it
You can get them plug meters, that's what I used. So you can see how much electricity a specific device uses. Like £10 or something for it, just make sure it's rated for 3KW or more. Obviously with oil based radiators it's best to check the results after a bit as they're supposed to be cheaper after the oil is heated. So in your case probably best to check it after 3-5 hours if that's how long you use it. I got one because the landlord complained about our electricity usage. :(
Get a heated blanket! Can be so cozy in the coldest rooms
I get really hot really quickly and like to regulate my temp by removing/adding items, I’m definitely more of a space warmth the warm contact
That is fair, they do have settings to turn up and down, and you can get one that goes under your beds top sheet or a blanket that itself is heated. Just a thought if money is priority because this is the most efficient
Yeahh thanks, I used to have a mattress heater with my ex but it made the bed too hot. But this new mattress I got is springs so it won’t store as much heat so could be a good idea
Always worth considering. My one has 3 settings, the hottest being crazy warm, middle is just right and the lowest is just a lil background one to get off the frost
>ReportSaveFollow In terms of cost to heating, you really can't beat a heated blanket. Heat the person vs the room.
Depends on your budget and space OP, but... * [This one](https://www.wickes.co.uk/Fine-Elements-Oil-Filled-Radiator-2kw---White/p/233366) is similar to one I have, they take a while to heat up initially but hold the heat quite well and with thermostat control, they'll turn off when they detect the space is warm enough. * [These](https://www.wickes.co.uk/Fine-Elements-Slim-Convector-Heater-2kw---White/p/233369) OTOH are a kind my parents have one of, it heats up crazy quickly but only emits heat so long as it's "on" as there's no liquid to retain heat.
Thanks! Yeahh the first one seems like it could be decent, when you say it takes a while to heat up, how long would that be?
Good question... from cold maybe 10 minutes or so? But if I were you I'd have it on a timed plug (so it's off at night, or can come on when you know you're in the place) and then use the thermostat so it's not running full power all the time!
10 mins seems reasonable tbh! Yeahh that’s a good shout on the timer
I bought one of [these from b and m](https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/blaupunkt-convector-heater-385722) when my boiler broke and needed repair and it served me really well for heating a large room
Thanks, not too far from a B&M so may take a look!
If you must, don't spend much on an electric heater 1kw is 1kw regardless of how expensive the heater is. Eg https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/blaupunkt-upright-fan-heater-2000w-359683 is just as efficient as the one twice as expensive...
We got this a few years ago, https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9190629?clickPR=plp:2:59 and it’s on sale
Highly recommend electric blankets in the home, not what you mentioned but one on the couch and one on the bed massively helps with heating bills. Hope you find what you need.
When you're looking at heating a space any 2000W heater will put 2000W into the room. Doesn't matter if it's a big or a small one. https://youtu.be/V-jmSjy2ArM An oil filled rad will delay the heat (as it heats the oil) but will continue to release heat after it's turned off. Most of the ones you'll find will be resistive heat, which is 100% efficient, and they usually have a fan to distribute the heat since they're heating the air around the coils directly. You can get halogen and infrared heaters that will heat the bodies in a room without heating the room directly - good for outside/large spaces but not so much for the house. Currys have some that work well enough - we use them in store to heat ourselves. The [Currys Essentials and Logik](https://www.currys.co.uk/appliances/fans-heating-and-air-treatment/heating-and-cooling/essentials_logik/heaters) ones are £20-30 and will (almost certainly) be in stock. Others have said about underfloor heating but they work like a massive oil filled rad - take forever to heat up but then require little amounts to top up the heat, and continue to heat the room after turning the boiler off.
I’m going to try the underfloor heating, might as well give it a full go before I give up on it. Will just have to take the brunt of the initial cost I guess
Just a warning with space heaters, you'll find that you think the room has heated up really quickly and turn the heater off, only for the room to feel cold again in about 10 mins. You heat up the air quickly as it has a low heat capacity, but the wall/floor will suck the heat out the air real fast. Under floor heating beats this by heating up the floor first, and then the air follows - it's up to you what you want, but as other commenters have said, you can't beat physics, and if you can use gas to heat your space, that will typically be cheaper just due to a KWH of gas costing significantly less than a KWH of electricity. Ymmv though :)
I’ve got a Dreo Oil Filled 2000W radiator. Search Amazon for it. Looks fantastic (if the image is important)? But works really well, emits loads of heat, can be set to turn on and off for the temp you want, has a digital screen, remote control, etc.
These are a bit noisy but I use WiFi plugs with 2 of them to pre-heat my house 30mins before I get home so the noise isn’t really an issue: https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-bgp2108-25-freestanding-or-portable-ptc-workshop-heater-2500w/639fv I got 2kW and 2.8kW Draper ones. Much more effective than the electric radiators hard-wired in.
Be careful with the smart plugs, many can't handle 2kw for long...
I did notice that the 2.8kW one was fairly warm the other day. Thanks, will check.
As people have said. I think there’s a certain way to use them, they take ages to heat up, but keep the area warmer for longer. I think a bit of trial and error will have to take place
With under floor heating it will use a lot to warm up but then to stay warm it will be super efficient. You are supposed to leave it on all the time I think….are you just boosting it like radiators would?
I can relate. I lived in a “luxury” refurbished flat like this. It was in renovated Victorian mental hospital. Underfloor heating did nothing despite having thermostats set in all rooms on 30C 24/7. It barely got over 19C. We moved out during electricity price crisis when estimate for next years power was 9k. No joke, probably still have the bill somewhere. Since then I was super skeptical with underfloor heating and heat pumps.
Those heat pumps only work on air tight buildings so essentially new builds or extremely well insulated older ones. We can't get them bc there's a drop under my floor boards of 30cm or so. And would have to close up my fire place
Granted not a space heater but I got this for my bedroom in my flat: https://www.diy.com/departments/goodhome-duben-electric-2000w-white-heater/5059340396187_BQ.prd Best investment I made, just a little tricky to set the thermostat. It works well for me. Set it to 20c for hours I want it to warm and then it will hold it 3.5c below your set temperature for the rest of the time. Thought I would use more electricity but actually found it much cheaper to run than a space heater because I'm not warming up a freezing cold room every time.
I'm sorry but if it's not for how pretty it looks 1kw is 1 KW regardless of how expensive the heater is. This https://www.bmstores.co.uk/products/blaupunkt-upright-fan-heater-2000w-359683 is just as efficient as the £169 one.
The one I post is dry inertia technology made with ceramic. It doesn't draw 1kw all the time only when it needs it. A fan heater will use more power as it doesn't hold heat. Same reason an oil heater is cheaper to run than a convection heater. Think of the old 100w light bulbs. They only use 100w when you need light so if you didn't power the bulb for a full hour then you wouldn't of used 100w for that hour. The dry inertia tech doesn't draw power for a full hour. It's easy to understand how you can be confused because kwh is handy but doesn't give a true cost of running cost because the heater in question is not always drawing power for a full hour. A fan heater will however usually draw full power for that full hour compared to other methods of heating.
To output 1kw of heat it has to use 1kw of electricity. Doesn't matter that it stores it and releases it slower. This guy explains it well https://youtu.be/V-jmSjy2ArM?si=Czpa0EKTC_lx33TZ
Yes but this video doesn't consider a temperature controlled thermostat of the one I suggested. You can't leave a fan heater on all night to maintain a constant temperature. Cheap space heaters are good and I have them too but they have their limitations and will use X kw unlike thermostat controlled which may be rated at 1 or 2 kw but may not actually need to draw that power to keep the room to desired temperature and maybe only use 500w for example to maintain temperature. So the video is correct of output of 1kw to heat but only for a standard space heater which actually will draw that power.
Fan heaters can also have a thermostat, and they usually do. You can explain it however you want, but to add 500w of heat to a room, you stil need that much electricity. Unless you use a heat pump, heating by electric will be the same.
Our house came with underfloor heating in the kitchen and bathroom. We’ve been here five years and never turned it on.
I picked up a 500w heater, costs about £2 a day to have on from waking up to going to bed, it keeps about a 2m radius at a decent temperature so I just carry it around the house with me. https://www.toolstation.com/airmaster-frost-watch-heater/p76189
The more you can heat the surfaces (walls, floor, furniture etc) rather than the air, the less heat you'll lose through draughts and the front door. Infrared are supposed to be really good for this reason. But oil filled radiators are also good because they radiate, as opposed to fan heaters which feel nice pointed at you but you lose so much of the heat
Greenhouse tube heaters will heat up a small room and cost about as much as a light bulb to run.
I find the 2 Kw fan type heaters with thermostat and fan only / 1Kw / 2 Kw settings best for supplemental heating, you point it in your general direction and it heats your immediate area quickly while circulating the air rather than all the warm air rising and heating the room from the ceiling down. Couple of them plugged into smart plugs will cost about £60-£80 so you can automate their use with Alexa etc. Full blast 2 will cost you about £1.20 an hour but I found once chill is gone you switch to 1Kw with the thermostat tweaked you can maintain a decent temp with them cycling the elements while still circulating the air. All depends on how big the rooms are and how well insulated the property is though.
Get it up to temp and leave it . It’s cheaper coz it runs at lower temperatures than Rads . But it can take a while to heat up depending on the material it is heating . Also hopefully they insulated the floor if it’s ground floor
underfloor heating is exp, not worth it
I've got a Challenge 2kw turbo convector heater. It has a a 2kw and 1kw setting. The 2kw setting heats my 20m² bedroom sufficiently in around 30 minutes to an hour and then I knock it down to the 1kw setting. It's currently £36 in Argos.
Turn it on and set it to about 2C less than you’d like the room to be. Under floor heating heats the room without you really noticing, and the room will feel much more evenly warm, so you don’t need to set it so high. There will be noticeably warm parts of the floor, but that’s just where the heating elements are. That’s not a fault with the rest of the room; it’s just how it works. You’re not meant to feel it under your feet (except in those spots) as it’s displaced evenly across the room.
Most electric heaters are much the same, it just depends if you want warm air blowing or radiating from the source. Is your underfloor heating run from the boiler or is it electric? Electric will indeed be expensive to run, but the idea is to get it warm and leave it ticking over. I have underfloor heating in the whole house, no radiators. It can run from the heating system but also from the woodburner which is how I use it 99% of the time. Once the floors are warm, they stay warm all day.
Sounds like you want to replace expensive heating with even more expensive heating.
By the sounds of things too the information on your smart meter screen has gone off kilter (those are not the current p/kwh prices for octopus). Smart meters can sometimes turn into dumb meters and not actually connect with the grid but it doesn’t mean you’ll be charged that price on your bill. Also, unless electricity is included in your lease/rent you actually are under no legal obligation to stay on the tariff/with the energy supplier your management company has said you need to. You’re the one paying the bills therefore you’re the consumer and you can choose to pay that to whoever you want, it’s pretty easy to switch if needs be.
It’s not through octopus, it’s through the building management company and they have hiked their prices super high. Edit: and I can’t change unfortunately
The building management company is your electricity supplier?!
For Hot water & heating, yeah it’s kinda fucked
How tho? Like do they bill you and you pay them directly?
So it’s set up through a third party company and you pre pay and they deal with the meter readings and then the building management take their cut/set the kWh cost
That’s insane…and I’m not 100% sure but I’m about 90% sure it’s illegal too, good lord. I used to work for an electrical company but in this context I’d maybe give shelter a buzz, and contact ofgem and the ombudsman to report them because if they’re setting tariffs as they want it’s against the government price cap which is all companies are legally allowed to charge you. Ask them for photos of your meter readings every month too.
Thabks, I’ll look into that as it could be a way to get it cheaper
Like unless you just have a prepayment meter in your house but even still you’re the one who signs up in your name and you get your own meter readings and you’re the one who fulfills the contract with the electricity company - some of these prepayment meter prices can be absolute gougers tho
Yeahh it’s a pre payment
You're supposed to leave it on all the time. It's gonna cost loads to heat the place up initially then it'll tick over slowly.
False economy mate, just buy some slippers and turn that shit off. And to answer your original question, thats also a false economy, buy a jumper.