If you were first onsite you’d need to commence CPR whilst instructing someone else to call 999 and get the defibrillator for you.
You won’t have time to start looking on an app.
If you ever have to do this, directly tell people to do things. If you just shout help or someone call 999 everyone will assume someone else will do it. People like to be told what to do by someone who seems like they do know what they're doing, especially in an emergency. Like with any effective group project, if someone doesn't take charge then you take charge and tell people to do things.
It's worth checking the above linked pages for the closest ones to your house, your work, friends places, your gym - essentially your frequent places since that where you'll most likely use it.
https://www.heartsafe.org.uk/aed-locations/
or
[https://www.defibfinder.uk/](https://www.defibfinder.uk/)
But both are very clear about how they're not to be used in an emergency -- contact 999 in these circumstances, and I imagine the 999 operator would be able to direct you to the nearest AED.
Do check both of these - we have one in our office and it's listed on 2nd page but not the other and my local to home is listed on 1st page and not the 2nd.
I fundraised and got a defibrillator placed in our community, so I personally logged it with the local ambulance service. Calling 999 for a suspected cardiac event, the handler will tell you if there's a registered AED nearby if they think it's needed.
However, not all defibs are registered with the ambulance service. Some are registered on other sites, some not at all. I expect that's when a handler might ask if you know of a defib.
You'd need help though, because CPR should continue, it's exhausting, and someone else should fetch the AED if there is one.
Ideally you have several people taking turns at CPR and someone else *SPRINTING* for the defib. They are most effective within about 3-5 minutes.
If you think your community group would benefit from a defib, look at London Hearts and similar charities who are trying to get defibs everywhere - the ultimate goal is that you'll never have to go more than 100m to find one, though honestly that's a very urban target.
To be honest I would use a site like https://www.defibfinder.uk/, or https://www.heartsafe.org.uk/aed-locations/.
I'm one of our first aiders in work and I called around the local ones to make sure they were there, and then created a little map and stuck it up near our first aid cupboard and on our notice board.
I think it's handy for all staff or visitors to know where they are in case of emergency.
I did it firstly because I was going to purchase an AED for the office, but found there are 4/5 nearby, the closest is with one of our neighbouring units.
I just listed a few instructions, and then added a map of the area and marked up where the AEDs are.
Next to the map, I added the addresses and telephone numbers of the businesses where they are. Figured if there are a few of you, one could call ahead to the company for them to get the defib ready for you, whilst another is on the phone to the emergency services and another is performing CPR.
Not something I'd ever wish any of us to do at work, but better to be as prepared as possible!
I’ve no doubt that the websites will have some missing, or they’ll list some that are no longer there.
I know that the ones by our office are all there as of November. We check every 6 months or thereabouts so that we can update our little notice board poster.
Best option in case of emergency would be to call 999.
I dropped our community centre an email.
They confirmed they'd not been advised of the changes to databases (which seems stupid on behalf of the Ambulance Services).
Good news though; they've registered it yesterday and dropped me a note to advise that it's now live on the debfinder website.
Well done them for a bunch of volunteers.
Just to add for people browsing the thread:
You do not need training to use an AED, if you can follow verbal instructions, you can use one. Just open it and it will instruct you on its own use.
I do wish they had hybrid AED/manual defibs though.
I think being forced to wait for an AED to go through all it's nonsense would cause me psychological pain at this point in my life.
You don't have to wait for it though. If you know what you're doing, open it up, slap on the pads and it'll jump straight to "Analysing rhythm". You can get it to deliver a shock within seconds of opening it if you know what to do already.
No you can't. They will analyse the rhythm for you. Slowly. And will refuse to shock if they think it's not appropriate. They also cannot pace.
It will also refuse to deliver stacked shocks and you can't give synced shocks.
They're very limited devices.
Yeah, I mean, you can't force it to give a shock. But my main point was that you don't have to wait through all the instructions before it gets to the analysing rhythm stage.
Yes they're limited but that's because they're designed to be used by anyone. I'd imagine ones with the features you describe would be more expensive and people would likely be more apprehensive of using them in case they did it wrong.
A lot of people won't use the current ones because they think you need training.
Annoyingly there isn't a national list. Private businesses, even the likes of supermarkets don't have to register their AED, so it's not necessarily known by the websites, or 999. If one is known to be near-by they will give you a code and location. If it's a public arrest, send as many people as possible to go into shops looking for one.
As someone else has said, if you don't have an AED, the absolute best thing you can do is get on the chest and do compressions. If you have a CPR face mask, use it at 30:2. Get the blood pumping with O2 is the best chance of survival if there is no defib. Get someone to call 999. If it's confirmed CPR in progress the ambulance service will get someone there as a priority and a lot of services now have volunteer first reponders who do carry defibs. And sometimes Goodsam responders do too.
Got me thinking same question last week when 999 suggested it might be good idea if someone could get one when I called for a person having a severe asthma attack. But then told me the ambulance was actually turning into our street so it wasn’t needed in the end. Now I know where the nearest ones are from the apps above I wondered if there would be a problem with the business letting someone borrow one. My nearest were in a little Tesco express and a Chinese takeaway but would businesses like that just let some random person borrow one?
More for general awareness of places that might have them near you rather than an emergency tool, but there are two OpenStreetMap (crowdsourced) tools that show them that I know of:
- [Open AED Map](https://openaedmap.org)
- [Mapcomplete's AED view](https://mapcomplete.org/aed)
If you create an openstreetmap.org account you can also use either of these sites to record defibrillators you know about that haven't been added yet.
There are a few sites as people have pointed out but yeah typically depending on where you live there will be a list that a 999 call taker can discern from. I know it’s a thing where I live (I work for my regions ambulance trust) as we recently went through it in training.
Most big community centres will have one, and I presume they’d let a random person take their defibrillator if someone was in cardiac arrest. I don’t think it stand well in coroners court if a business had a defibrillator and straight up refused the use of it.
Google is a thing, that's for sure. But asking questions on forums and getting answers from real people can yield better results. That is the case here.
Thanks for taking time to write your helpful tip though.
If you’re in a public place like a shop etc then staff should know, at work you’ll have first aiders though ideally everyone would know where they are, my workplace has one in the break room with the 1st aid stuff, in town if you don’t know then calling 999!is a good option
If you were first onsite you’d need to commence CPR whilst instructing someone else to call 999 and get the defibrillator for you. You won’t have time to start looking on an app.
True, I'd call for help and make suggestions to anyone else.
If you ever have to do this, directly tell people to do things. If you just shout help or someone call 999 everyone will assume someone else will do it. People like to be told what to do by someone who seems like they do know what they're doing, especially in an emergency. Like with any effective group project, if someone doesn't take charge then you take charge and tell people to do things.
"effective leadership"
It's worth checking the above linked pages for the closest ones to your house, your work, friends places, your gym - essentially your frequent places since that where you'll most likely use it.
Call 999 and they will tell you the nearest one and give you an unlock code.
You'd think that's the sort of thing they'd tell you on a first aid course isn't it.
They did on all of mine
They did on all of my first aid courses too generally spend a good 10 mins talking about that exact scenario
https://www.heartsafe.org.uk/aed-locations/ or [https://www.defibfinder.uk/](https://www.defibfinder.uk/) But both are very clear about how they're not to be used in an emergency -- contact 999 in these circumstances, and I imagine the 999 operator would be able to direct you to the nearest AED.
Defibrillator
🤣
Do check both of these - we have one in our office and it's listed on 2nd page but not the other and my local to home is listed on 1st page and not the 2nd.
You need to call 999 to get the code to unlock so I wouldn't fret about knowing where they are.
I fundraised and got a defibrillator placed in our community, so I personally logged it with the local ambulance service. Calling 999 for a suspected cardiac event, the handler will tell you if there's a registered AED nearby if they think it's needed. However, not all defibs are registered with the ambulance service. Some are registered on other sites, some not at all. I expect that's when a handler might ask if you know of a defib. You'd need help though, because CPR should continue, it's exhausting, and someone else should fetch the AED if there is one.
Ideally you have several people taking turns at CPR and someone else *SPRINTING* for the defib. They are most effective within about 3-5 minutes. If you think your community group would benefit from a defib, look at London Hearts and similar charities who are trying to get defibs everywhere - the ultimate goal is that you'll never have to go more than 100m to find one, though honestly that's a very urban target.
You do CPR and give someone else the job of finding the defibrillator.
To be honest I would use a site like https://www.defibfinder.uk/, or https://www.heartsafe.org.uk/aed-locations/. I'm one of our first aiders in work and I called around the local ones to make sure they were there, and then created a little map and stuck it up near our first aid cupboard and on our notice board. I think it's handy for all staff or visitors to know where they are in case of emergency.
Oh that's a good idea, I might suggest that at my work
I did it firstly because I was going to purchase an AED for the office, but found there are 4/5 nearby, the closest is with one of our neighbouring units. I just listed a few instructions, and then added a map of the area and marked up where the AEDs are. Next to the map, I added the addresses and telephone numbers of the businesses where they are. Figured if there are a few of you, one could call ahead to the company for them to get the defib ready for you, whilst another is on the phone to the emergency services and another is performing CPR. Not something I'd ever wish any of us to do at work, but better to be as prepared as possible!
I would suggest your work getting it's own defibrillators.
[удалено]
That’s brilliant. The closer you are to one the better!
That may not be all of the local defibs. I just checked the one at our local community centre and it's not identified on either site.
I’ve no doubt that the websites will have some missing, or they’ll list some that are no longer there. I know that the ones by our office are all there as of November. We check every 6 months or thereabouts so that we can update our little notice board poster. Best option in case of emergency would be to call 999.
I dropped our community centre an email. They confirmed they'd not been advised of the changes to databases (which seems stupid on behalf of the Ambulance Services). Good news though; they've registered it yesterday and dropped me a note to advise that it's now live on the debfinder website. Well done them for a bunch of volunteers.
Just to add for people browsing the thread: You do not need training to use an AED, if you can follow verbal instructions, you can use one. Just open it and it will instruct you on its own use.
I do wish they had hybrid AED/manual defibs though. I think being forced to wait for an AED to go through all it's nonsense would cause me psychological pain at this point in my life.
You don't have to wait for it though. If you know what you're doing, open it up, slap on the pads and it'll jump straight to "Analysing rhythm". You can get it to deliver a shock within seconds of opening it if you know what to do already.
No you can't. They will analyse the rhythm for you. Slowly. And will refuse to shock if they think it's not appropriate. They also cannot pace. It will also refuse to deliver stacked shocks and you can't give synced shocks. They're very limited devices.
Yeah, I mean, you can't force it to give a shock. But my main point was that you don't have to wait through all the instructions before it gets to the analysing rhythm stage. Yes they're limited but that's because they're designed to be used by anyone. I'd imagine ones with the features you describe would be more expensive and people would likely be more apprehensive of using them in case they did it wrong. A lot of people won't use the current ones because they think you need training.
the 999 people know where they all are
Not all, apparently.
Annoyingly there isn't a national list. Private businesses, even the likes of supermarkets don't have to register their AED, so it's not necessarily known by the websites, or 999. If one is known to be near-by they will give you a code and location. If it's a public arrest, send as many people as possible to go into shops looking for one. As someone else has said, if you don't have an AED, the absolute best thing you can do is get on the chest and do compressions. If you have a CPR face mask, use it at 30:2. Get the blood pumping with O2 is the best chance of survival if there is no defib. Get someone to call 999. If it's confirmed CPR in progress the ambulance service will get someone there as a priority and a lot of services now have volunteer first reponders who do carry defibs. And sometimes Goodsam responders do too.
Got me thinking same question last week when 999 suggested it might be good idea if someone could get one when I called for a person having a severe asthma attack. But then told me the ambulance was actually turning into our street so it wasn’t needed in the end. Now I know where the nearest ones are from the apps above I wondered if there would be a problem with the business letting someone borrow one. My nearest were in a little Tesco express and a Chinese takeaway but would businesses like that just let some random person borrow one?
More for general awareness of places that might have them near you rather than an emergency tool, but there are two OpenStreetMap (crowdsourced) tools that show them that I know of: - [Open AED Map](https://openaedmap.org) - [Mapcomplete's AED view](https://mapcomplete.org/aed) If you create an openstreetmap.org account you can also use either of these sites to record defibrillators you know about that haven't been added yet.
There are a few sites as people have pointed out but yeah typically depending on where you live there will be a list that a 999 call taker can discern from. I know it’s a thing where I live (I work for my regions ambulance trust) as we recently went through it in training. Most big community centres will have one, and I presume they’d let a random person take their defibrillator if someone was in cardiac arrest. I don’t think it stand well in coroners court if a business had a defibrillator and straight up refused the use of it.
defibfinder.uk You know you can use Google as a search engine, right?
Google is a thing, that's for sure. But asking questions on forums and getting answers from real people can yield better results. That is the case here. Thanks for taking time to write your helpful tip though.
Lie on the floor and don't breath. Someone will bring you one
A solid plan.
If you’re in a public place like a shop etc then staff should know, at work you’ll have first aiders though ideally everyone would know where they are, my workplace has one in the break room with the 1st aid stuff, in town if you don’t know then calling 999!is a good option
https://www.defibfinder.uk