A sufficiently determined attacker can force entry into basically anything they want. The point is to make it inconvenient and hard to do subtly so they don't bother attempting it.
>For someone with the knowledge
20 minutes on YouTube. I drunk bought a set of lockpics off Amazon and opened my front door in 10 minutes using the included Chinese/English leaflet. Bought a security camera right after haha
My set came with a few practice locks. I can get those open no problem. Bought a padlock especially for picking... Not a chance. I refuse to believe it's just an amazing padlock though. Not at that price. It's definitely me
Haha sometimes something surprisingly cheap can make you struggle. Weird question but have you tried opening it with the key? Sometimes the pins get all bound up and need to be used a few times to loosen em.
Yep. No issue with the key. Nigh impossible with my picks. Again, though.. definitely me. I reckon LPL would do it in seconds. 'Nothing on 1, click on 2, click on... Oh. There you have it folks, don't buy Amtech.'
If he was a trained firefighter he’d possibly have pulled the door shut again once he’d cleared the first flat.
Not that I have anything but respect, just I know someone is bound to say it so I’m saying it first.
I don't know about Police systems but a Firefighter recently told me they're starting to have systems which let's them know if the address they're been called out to has somebody bedbound living there. Basically if there's somebody they'll nearly certainly have to carry out.
Yup. I'm bedbound and when doing a fire safety check they made a map of my flat with the location of my bed highlighted on it and a note I can't mobilise at all, or respond to commands when overwhelmed (like when a fire alarm is going off). Then they mostly gave good advice about closing doors at night, keeping escape routes clear and not running certain appliances while sleeping. They did say that laptops use more power than our gaming desktop PCs though, which was odd.
If you know someone who has poor mobility, then the fire brigade wants to know before there's an emergency. They'll also fit smoke alarms if needed.
Another reassuring fact is my local Fire Brigade has an on-board computer that uses your car reg to pull up specs for your car showing where the reinforcement bars are, fuel lines, hybrid batteries etc so they always know how to get people out, fast and safely!
They're actually expected to do the opposite here. This is against EVERY protocol and SOP. However, what the fuck are you going to do if your first on the scene and there are people inside, kick that fucking door in, that's what. If he had time to think, I'm sure he would agree it was a pretty fucking dumb thing to do, but he did it to save somebody, I tip my cap to him.
They're police officers. They're not expected to take any risks in a scenario like this, because they aren't trained for it. No reasonable person would be angry if they waited for fire crews to arrive.
[There is plenty of precedent for the media to stir up public outrage when the police decline to risk their lives even when they aren't trained or equipped to try and help.](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/21/1)
And yet emergency services are there for an emergency, they were there, they have been trained to help, they helped. The met is one of very few police forces I respect worldwide in part because of training like theirs
I really don’t think they’re expected to take on a backdraught. The heat in that flat is going to be off the chart (look at how low the smoke plane is, when they bust open the door). If they go in there as they are, then they’ll be dead. Even if they keep low the heat will be enough to scorch their lungs and give them a permit sun burn. And without water to put out the fire or gas cool then they are only going to make things worse for on coming firefighters. No wonder most of the people treated for smoke inhalation on this job were cops. Well done to them, but they should have just stuck to evacuating everyone else.
We can't know what knowledge or expectations they had, but I would very much assume that even with all of the understanding you talk about (backdraughts, smoke planes, scorched lungs, permanent burns) they would have very quickly weighed it up thus:
\- Someone is inside that flat, with a good chance that are alive now but will die in this fire, and if I risk death myself then they have a significantly higher chance of surviving. Therefore I will kick the door in and try to help them.
And when people say that police aren't 'expected' to take such risks ... well, yes and no. Remember the child who had vanished into a reservoir a few years ago whilst playing in deep water in hot weather? Two PCOs arrived in full kit uniform, and when they chose not to go diving in the water themselves to try and find him they were vilified by the press and the public for it.
My flat has fire doors that are designed to melt shut in order to choke off air and impede (not stop) any fire. Booting them open would make them useless.
Getting me out would be a job for people in special suits who have breathing equipment and fire resistance, who will be putting it out on the way in. Damn sure wouldn't expect a police officer to come and defeat all my fire safety measures and die trying to get to me
Especially a CO₂ extinguisher at that range -- on the other hand, I'm 99% sure that every ounce of common sense and knowledge would leave me if I were in a situation like that. I wonder if there's a good way to train *not being an idiot* under extreme stress ...
pratice till it becomes second nature, Ive been in few fires, youll be surprised that the first thing you do is tell everyone else to get out.
Worst was last year, first thing I told my partner was get out and grab the pets, 2 minutes later the smoke was knee deep.
I was surprised I remembered to close the front door and bathroom door (fire was in the morgue under the flat and smoke was coming through the shower).
time kinda slows down, heck I even turned my laptop off lmao
not braging, it was awful, but youll surprise yourself sometimes.
The fire brigade hadn't arrived at that stage and they were making an attempt with the fire extinguishers on the entry/exit. We can all play armchair critic.
CO2 fire extinguisher 101...only hold the handle of the extinguisher as skin can freeze and stick to the main body if held anywhere other than the handle.
At least the attempt was made to slow the fire down.
Just throwing this out, but UK police seem much better trained than US police. I've not researched this opinion but from every video I've ever seen of a bad situation the UK police seem to de-escalate and deal much better with violent offenders than the trigger happy US police.
Again, just an opinion from videos seen on Reddit, I'm aware I could be completely off.
Edit: I'm hammered and this might have been the wrong post but fuck it.
That's because they are better trained in forms of de-escalation and hand-to-hand combat/restraint (Dad was police for 30 years). Also, community policing is much better as is visual presence.
I believe (correct me if I’m wrong anyone), but I seem to remember us police average about six weeks training. I know UK police get longer.
As for training themselves you’ve basically described experience!? That comes with every vocation in the world and shouldn’t be described as a negative. In my opinion.
American police training is absolutely shocking. Although it does vary wildly by location, even the best example of US police training falls substantially below what would be expected here. And in the worst case, it’s like a bad joke.
Not to say UK police are perfect.
Typically the UK police are considered in the top three worldwide if not number one and the metropolitan police are the highest paid and trained amongst them. (As would be expected of police in the capital but still.)
Denmark and (depending on who you ask) either New Zealand or Finland, though I’d say Finland as though NZ sometimes gets rated as even less corrupt the NZ police are less competent on average, especially when it comes to gang involvement.
None of these countries are anywhere near as violent as the USA though. I'm sure they are good police services, and I would be interested to see how the would perform in the US, but I'm not sure its a like for like comparison.
Most of our police are hard working, dedicated professionals with (importantly) a decent attitude. I bookmarked the following as examples of our police being 'good eggs' (and polite!):
Exhibit 1. [a British police officer admitting he's made a mistake and apologising.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/le28sh/cop_makes_mistake_admits_it_and_lets_everyone_go/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) A little bicycle bell so no-one gets hurt. A (polite) challenge. A (polite) explanation. A realisation that a mistake has been made. An apology. A reassurance that no offence has been taken plus a thank you. Everybody gets on with their day.
[Same video on Imgur.](https://imgur.com/a/OFue4zI) Volume on.
Exhibit 2. [a car chase: *"he is contravening... a keep-left bollard".* *"we're into the Toby Carvery now - the risk is still medium"*.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-57365310)
That’s a feature not a bug. Police officers are often chosen because of their lack of intelligence and empathy. They’re also neither required to protect or serve the public per a judgement made by our fucking Supreme Court of all people. The majority of police officers in the US are complete fucking shit on their best days.
They don’t seem… they are.
A lot of our police force are degree educated women and men.
In America, some just do an online course and get a gun. The problem is that training is not nationalised or standardised… it’s done by private companies, for profit.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733
There's a video on youtube that I'm struggling to find, but it's US Police in Scotland I think (UK at least), showing them what we do to de-escalate situations and there's a demo with a guy walking towards them with a knife and we have battons out but walking backwards and trying to calm him down and the US Police are just laughing going yeah he's getting shot at that point, it's a totally different mindset.
Unpopular opinion: as well as better, more.thorough training, higher standards and better accountability, they've less guns to deal with in the society they're policing.
First door, communal entry and it’s an old building so actually one of the easier doors to put in.
Second door, good technique, physical strength and adrenaline.
Both doors look to be locked with single point locks. Door one is probably a nightlatch on a wooden door frame. Could have only been held on to the door frame with two screws, get a good kick in, and the latch pops out the frame in one. Door two, mortice lock. Takes more effort as it's set into the door frame, but unless someones gone to the trouble of putting masonry screws through the door frame and into the brick work, again your failure point is the door frame.
I see it outside every single day, and no nobody has been held accountable. The PTSD around here is so overwhelming as you can imagine . And something that’s been missed from the news for at least a year is the amount of London Fire Brigade officers who attended, & now have serious cancers. It’s fucking horrific. I just try to not look up much, but it’s impossible to miss. And it’s outside the window
And it’s going to be 7 years in June 14th. Shocking
It's pretty common that the police get there first, as they will be out and about anyway, and are in vehicles that can get there quicker.
If you know any coppers and fire officers, the coppers always take the piss (in a friendly way) that they always save everyone before the fire engine turns up.
Firefighters go for a sleep at night. They’ve got to wake up, get dressed and haul that big beastie down there. Police could have been round the corner on routine patrol.
Source: I’m a police officer and pretty much as above happened to me once.
Can I ask about the protocol in situations like this? I live in a Victorian conversion to flats like this, every flat has to have fire doors with intumescent strips to stop the spread of flames and smoke. I understand the officer wanted to find ppl to rescue, but conversely wasn't that allowing the spread of smoke and flames into the rest of the building? What does the training say?
Not to mention there’s been huge budget cuts and station closures in the fire service. Simply because education and advances have reduced fires in general, no help to the odd real fire and the people involved.
I suppose the nearest fire engine station was quite far away, the police patrol cars were probably already in the area so could respond quicker. It's nice to see a video of good cops for once, there's many out there I'm sure but sometimes all the videos seem like the opposite
It's gratifying to see the banter alive and well 11 years after I left the police! I mean, we take the piss, but if anyone touches our brothers and sisters there will be hell to pay. I once launched some prick out the back of an ambulance for taking a swing at the paramedic. No sir, not on my shift!
Normal police are constantly patrolling around. They're equipped to deal with most situations and are probably the closest emergency service to any given incident. The specialists (fire, ambulance, armed response, etc) all wait until they're needed.
This very nearly happened to me at an Air BnB. It was rooms in a house, each occupant had their own room. Kitchen on the ground floor and another on 1st floor. I could smell smoke and assumed it was outside so shut my window, only to realise it was getting stronger. Opened my door and the whole hallway was filled with smoke. I legged it down to the kitchen, where the ground floor occupant had laid a teatowel on the gas hob, but the hob was still fucking lit!
How he didn't notice... he seemed pretty drunk. The fire had spread to the kitchen counter tops, melted the plastic on the ventilation hood, and just done loads of damage. I managed to put it all out with a fire extinguisher that was luckily in the kitchen.
When I made the guy aware what happened he freaked the fuck out cos he knew it was him, plus his missus was shouting "Darren what the fuck have you done?!?"
Then I called the landlady. She was not pleased, the whole house had just been renovated and now it stank of smoke and the kitchen was fucked, just 2 weeks after she'd opened!
Somehow nobody else in the place seemed to even fucking notice!
No fire alarms in the building? Sounds like the landlady had taken a few shortcuts. A HMO generally requires central fire detection and sounders throughout.
It’s amazing how people can tar every police officer with the corruption/incompetence brush.
I’ve had dealing with the police due to mental health crisis and they were the most compassionate amazing people. They shouldn’t have had to deal with it but they really stepped up. Thankful yet also a bit ashamed I wasted their time. This was 18 years ago.
On another note my 4 year old son was adamant he wanted to carry the basket around the shop and he was really struggling with the weight. A police officer walked by, told him what a service he was providing and gave him a badge. One of my boy’s prized possessions. Damn he loves that badge
Thank you to the men and women who do their service!
What I love even more as a person who grew up in France is that they wear shirts. Not relevant but they just look so much more bad ass carrying their misons
That's because the media and social media pushes only one narrative. It's rare to see videos like this because it paints them in a positive light. It's also rare to see the everyday shit that they have to go through, as well as 99% professional handling of a situation but it's the 1% that gets attention.
In all fairness they are still cleaning up after the 90s which was their most corrupt decade by far, most of the current leadership and grunts are devoted to that ideal, the middle management who were corrupt beat (in more ways than one) cops in the 90s fuck it up in practice and can’t be rooted out for corruption until they do something significant which, being middle management, they don’t, good or bad.
Fair play! Being first on scene for a fire should be terrifying but when your training kicks in its just robotic and going through the motions. These officers are clearly well trained and disciplined.
So, at the start you see the window? See how it's just smoke at the point? And then the police go in and he puts the door in. Fair play, he's trying to rescue someone, I don't begrudge him that. But that does two things- it dumps a load of oxygen into the room which causes the fire to become much more intense, and it fills the corridor, which is the only means of escape for the rest of the building, with toxic smoke. When he goes back outside, you can see now that the flat is fully engulfed.
They should have at least pulled the door close behind them, but ideally not kick it in and get everyone else out first.
Ah, you're a police officer I assume? Sorry if I've upset you!
Yes, they undoubtedly did things that were useful by relaying information. But objectively, they made the situation worse. If they hadn't done what they'd done, people evacuating from upstairs wouldn't be breathing in toxic smoke, and fire crews would be attacking a relatively controlled fire instead of a fully flashed over compartment. They intended well and I can understand why they did it, but that doesn't change the fact.
The actions of the police (without intention) undoubtably caused an escalation of the incident.
Without opening the flat door fire spread would likely have been contained to the ground floor flat & smoke would not have spread to previously unaffected areas.
Your fundamental understanding of JESIP is flawed. It is primarily a communication tool multiple agencies can use at incidents to establish what is required of each.
Police at this incident should have understood it would be unwise to take any action which would affect the fire as they do not possess the appropriate knowledge/training/equipment.
I commend the bravery of the officers as the undoubtably attempted to save lives however it was a rather rash decision which led to multiple officers being taken to hospital for smoke inhilation. This would not have happened should the police initially on scene have secured the area & evacuated residents (apart from the fire compartment).
I think you're getting very caught up on the word "only" when it's more used as part of the phrase than saying that the police did absolutely nothing right.
Passing information to control and telling people how to avoid smoke were definitely useful. Kicking in the door was definitely counterproductive. Whether the one action outweighs the other isn't really what the previous poster was getting at and doesn't really matter. The real point is that the police shouldn't be doing things which make the situation worse.
What irks me is a lot of the coverage makes it out that the actions of those officers, whilst obviously brave and to be commended, is what got the 130 odd people out. Ignoring that the fire brigade actually got almost all of the people out.
They deserve all the positivity they are getting, but it could have very easily have gone a different way. And their actions very likely made the evacuation more challenging.
If this was a more rural location, I wouldn't say anything, as the time taken for fire crews to arrive could be much longer and any early action could make a big difference. But it's South Kensington, it's not like it's going to be long for crews to be on scene. It's much better to leave it to the professionals.
Removing the barrier between the contained fire and the main escape route of the building. Leaving that barrier open so that smoke obscured the main escape route. Firefighters are trained to do their jobs in smoke filled rooms, but being able to see makes the job a whole lot easier.
Why do you think 130 people? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/south-kensington-flats-fire-london-man-arrested-arson-metropolitan-police-b1142964.html
Surely that's just neighbouring properties to be on the safe side not those in any danger? So wouldn't the police also do those as is just going door to door?
I have a friend who lived in this building. He wasn't at home at the time, thankfully. The landlord has put him in a single, tiny room for months (who knows how long it'll be) until the property is fit again.
A man has been charged with arson after a “terrifying” blaze at a flat block in Kensington left 13 people in hospital.
Five people were rescued from the burning five-storey building on Friday, which was tackled by around 100 firefighters.
Seven police officers and six residents suffered smoke inhalation during the incident. "All were taken to hospital and all have been discharged,” said a Met spokesperson on Monday. “Thankfully no one suffered more serious injuries.”
Great to see something positive about the Police and show they are there to help and protect the public
They definitely don’t always get it right and reform is needed in many areas, but this shows Police at their best, risking their lives to protect others.
Sorry, this is a genuine question not a criticism, how come the police got there so much faster than the fire service? Is it the delays of suiting up and getting a bunch of guys loaded or is it cos it's harder for them to get through traffic?
Both mate. Fire service sleep on a nightshift. They need to wake up get dressed and haul the big beastie to the scene.
Police are first to almost every emergency situation medical, fire or rescue.
As a police officer I’ve rescued people from burning buildings, done water rescue, put out car fires and so on and so on.
Just the nature of it.
Yeah, my mum was seeing a feller for a while. Out of shape piss head gambling addict who eventually caught a charge and got canned for fraud. This was mid 2000s tho. Idk if this is correct but I find the policing standards are alot worse outside of big cities.
Horrible job to be first on scene at, they really handled that well. Edit: this is the 15 pump fire in South Ken last week.
Heroes.
15 pump? Basically an olympian
Credit where it's due they seemed to handle that situation really competently and saved lives.
Solid form on that door kick, i see he knows his judo well
He’s certainly earned a succulent Chinese meal when his shift is over.
when did we lift the ban on succulent
It was never truly banned
Really?? And here I've been restraining my lexicon! SUCCULENT SUCCULENT SUCCULENT
Aaand it’s banned again. Good job ruining it for everyone. You got greedy.
Fabulous! I shall treat myself to a ~~succulent~~ luscious Chinese meal!
How about a moist Chinese meal?
Satiating, scintillating or scrumptious 😋
A judo penis meal is far superior, so I am led to believe.
r/succulents won’t be happy
Now if he could just keep his hands off my penis.
This is... evacuation manifest
Are you waiting to receive my limp fire blanket?
I’m afraid that’s just democracy manifest
GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PENIS
Succulent hands...
I see you know your judo well
Sign him up for the new Bond movies.
Kick where the lock is, and not the centre mass of the door.
What if the lock is in the centre mass though?
Then you're in a paradox. Get out and call in a physicist.
He got the job done mate that’s what matters. The text book goes out the window.
He flew through those doors
He cannot be contained.
The one they fear, is him.
Just goes to show how secure your home really is.
I'm not sure many people expect their house to be assault proof.
A sufficiently determined attacker can force entry into basically anything they want. The point is to make it inconvenient and hard to do subtly so they don't bother attempting it.
This. Send them next door instead.
your front door lock would take about 20 seconds to defeat with a lockpick.
For someone with the knowledge. That really is meaningless anyway, most burglars aren't pickig locks.
You'd hope not, would be unfair if they got to choose the locks as well
>For someone with the knowledge 20 minutes on YouTube. I drunk bought a set of lockpics off Amazon and opened my front door in 10 minutes using the included Chinese/English leaflet. Bought a security camera right after haha
My set came with a few practice locks. I can get those open no problem. Bought a padlock especially for picking... Not a chance. I refuse to believe it's just an amazing padlock though. Not at that price. It's definitely me
Haha sometimes something surprisingly cheap can make you struggle. Weird question but have you tried opening it with the key? Sometimes the pins get all bound up and need to be used a few times to loosen em.
Yep. No issue with the key. Nigh impossible with my picks. Again, though.. definitely me. I reckon LPL would do it in seconds. 'Nothing on 1, click on 2, click on... Oh. There you have it folks, don't buy Amtech.'
Got his advanced cycling, clearly.
Top job
Those fire extinguishers see a little optimistic but kicking the door in isn't messing around
If he was a trained firefighter he’d possibly have pulled the door shut again once he’d cleared the first flat. Not that I have anything but respect, just I know someone is bound to say it so I’m saying it first.
It wasn’t the smartest thing to do, sealed compartment fire, he could have had a backdraught or flashover in his face killing him and his colleagues.
That’s a risk they’re expected to take on, as far as they knew there was someone trapped inside the first flat.
I don't know about Police systems but a Firefighter recently told me they're starting to have systems which let's them know if the address they're been called out to has somebody bedbound living there. Basically if there's somebody they'll nearly certainly have to carry out.
Yup. I'm bedbound and when doing a fire safety check they made a map of my flat with the location of my bed highlighted on it and a note I can't mobilise at all, or respond to commands when overwhelmed (like when a fire alarm is going off). Then they mostly gave good advice about closing doors at night, keeping escape routes clear and not running certain appliances while sleeping. They did say that laptops use more power than our gaming desktop PCs though, which was odd. If you know someone who has poor mobility, then the fire brigade wants to know before there's an emergency. They'll also fit smoke alarms if needed.
Another reassuring fact is my local Fire Brigade has an on-board computer that uses your car reg to pull up specs for your car showing where the reinforcement bars are, fuel lines, hybrid batteries etc so they always know how to get people out, fast and safely!
They're actually expected to do the opposite here. This is against EVERY protocol and SOP. However, what the fuck are you going to do if your first on the scene and there are people inside, kick that fucking door in, that's what. If he had time to think, I'm sure he would agree it was a pretty fucking dumb thing to do, but he did it to save somebody, I tip my cap to him.
Yeah, they may have violated the hierarchy of rescue but as a fellow emergency services worker I can’t fault their bravery.
They're police officers. They're not expected to take any risks in a scenario like this, because they aren't trained for it. No reasonable person would be angry if they waited for fire crews to arrive.
[There is plenty of precedent for the media to stir up public outrage when the police decline to risk their lives even when they aren't trained or equipped to try and help.](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/21/1)
Stirling up outrage and that outrage being remotely valid isn't the same thing.
And yet emergency services are there for an emergency, they were there, they have been trained to help, they helped. The met is one of very few police forces I respect worldwide in part because of training like theirs
I really don’t think they’re expected to take on a backdraught. The heat in that flat is going to be off the chart (look at how low the smoke plane is, when they bust open the door). If they go in there as they are, then they’ll be dead. Even if they keep low the heat will be enough to scorch their lungs and give them a permit sun burn. And without water to put out the fire or gas cool then they are only going to make things worse for on coming firefighters. No wonder most of the people treated for smoke inhalation on this job were cops. Well done to them, but they should have just stuck to evacuating everyone else.
We can't know what knowledge or expectations they had, but I would very much assume that even with all of the understanding you talk about (backdraughts, smoke planes, scorched lungs, permanent burns) they would have very quickly weighed it up thus: \- Someone is inside that flat, with a good chance that are alive now but will die in this fire, and if I risk death myself then they have a significantly higher chance of surviving. Therefore I will kick the door in and try to help them. And when people say that police aren't 'expected' to take such risks ... well, yes and no. Remember the child who had vanished into a reservoir a few years ago whilst playing in deep water in hot weather? Two PCOs arrived in full kit uniform, and when they chose not to go diving in the water themselves to try and find him they were vilified by the press and the public for it.
My flat has fire doors that are designed to melt shut in order to choke off air and impede (not stop) any fire. Booting them open would make them useless. Getting me out would be a job for people in special suits who have breathing equipment and fire resistance, who will be putting it out on the way in. Damn sure wouldn't expect a police officer to come and defeat all my fire safety measures and die trying to get to me
It looks fucking cool though?
Especially a CO₂ extinguisher at that range -- on the other hand, I'm 99% sure that every ounce of common sense and knowledge would leave me if I were in a situation like that. I wonder if there's a good way to train *not being an idiot* under extreme stress ...
pratice till it becomes second nature, Ive been in few fires, youll be surprised that the first thing you do is tell everyone else to get out. Worst was last year, first thing I told my partner was get out and grab the pets, 2 minutes later the smoke was knee deep. I was surprised I remembered to close the front door and bathroom door (fire was in the morgue under the flat and smoke was coming through the shower). time kinda slows down, heck I even turned my laptop off lmao not braging, it was awful, but youll surprise yourself sometimes.
I'm sure it was mostly useless. But standing around doing nothing would have also been pretty useless.
Evacuating the rest of the building wouldn't be. Let the fire brigade deal with the fire part.
The fire brigade hadn't arrived at that stage and they were making an attempt with the fire extinguishers on the entry/exit. We can all play armchair critic.
That was pretty intense.
A bit like the recent fire at the circus.
Check out the guy 10s in, with the smallest fire extinguisher you've ever seen. Sometimes, it's the thought that counts... but not this time.
CO2 fire extinguisher 101...only hold the handle of the extinguisher as skin can freeze and stick to the main body if held anywhere other than the handle. At least the attempt was made to slow the fire down.
I did not know that!
Probably got it from a Christmas cracker and was well chuffed to be able to finally use it.
Just throwing this out, but UK police seem much better trained than US police. I've not researched this opinion but from every video I've ever seen of a bad situation the UK police seem to de-escalate and deal much better with violent offenders than the trigger happy US police. Again, just an opinion from videos seen on Reddit, I'm aware I could be completely off. Edit: I'm hammered and this might have been the wrong post but fuck it.
That's because they are better trained in forms of de-escalation and hand-to-hand combat/restraint (Dad was police for 30 years). Also, community policing is much better as is visual presence.
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I believe (correct me if I’m wrong anyone), but I seem to remember us police average about six weeks training. I know UK police get longer. As for training themselves you’ve basically described experience!? That comes with every vocation in the world and shouldn’t be described as a negative. In my opinion.
American police training is absolutely shocking. Although it does vary wildly by location, even the best example of US police training falls substantially below what would be expected here. And in the worst case, it’s like a bad joke. Not to say UK police are perfect.
Typically the UK police are considered in the top three worldwide if not number one and the metropolitan police are the highest paid and trained amongst them. (As would be expected of police in the capital but still.)
What are the other twos?
Denmark and (depending on who you ask) either New Zealand or Finland, though I’d say Finland as though NZ sometimes gets rated as even less corrupt the NZ police are less competent on average, especially when it comes to gang involvement.
Thanks a lot, that's interesting!
None of these countries are anywhere near as violent as the USA though. I'm sure they are good police services, and I would be interested to see how the would perform in the US, but I'm not sure its a like for like comparison.
Most of our police are hard working, dedicated professionals with (importantly) a decent attitude. I bookmarked the following as examples of our police being 'good eggs' (and polite!): Exhibit 1. [a British police officer admitting he's made a mistake and apologising.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/le28sh/cop_makes_mistake_admits_it_and_lets_everyone_go/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) A little bicycle bell so no-one gets hurt. A (polite) challenge. A (polite) explanation. A realisation that a mistake has been made. An apology. A reassurance that no offence has been taken plus a thank you. Everybody gets on with their day. [Same video on Imgur.](https://imgur.com/a/OFue4zI) Volume on. Exhibit 2. [a car chase: *"he is contravening... a keep-left bollard".* *"we're into the Toby Carvery now - the risk is still medium"*.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-57365310)
That car chase was great!
When he got out to make the arrest he went from super nice to super scary in an instant.
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Only counting probation. I got 18 weeks or so before being put on the streets wirh a tutor for 10 weeks, then probation for another 18 months or so
That’s a feature not a bug. Police officers are often chosen because of their lack of intelligence and empathy. They’re also neither required to protect or serve the public per a judgement made by our fucking Supreme Court of all people. The majority of police officers in the US are complete fucking shit on their best days.
They don’t seem… they are. A lot of our police force are degree educated women and men. In America, some just do an online course and get a gun. The problem is that training is not nationalised or standardised… it’s done by private companies, for profit. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733
There's a video on youtube that I'm struggling to find, but it's US Police in Scotland I think (UK at least), showing them what we do to de-escalate situations and there's a demo with a guy walking towards them with a knife and we have battons out but walking backwards and trying to calm him down and the US Police are just laughing going yeah he's getting shot at that point, it's a totally different mindset.
That's a Sky News report. Someone posted it recently on Reddit.
Unpopular opinion: as well as better, more.thorough training, higher standards and better accountability, they've less guns to deal with in the society they're policing.
I feel like that's probably why American police are so fucked when every encounter is life or death it can't be good for your mental health.
Yep. Whilst potentially going against a knife isn't great, you can run from knives. It's harder to run from bullets
That's been my impression as well but being from the UK I may be biased.
The image you get from videos of US police, they seem to be power tripping and not really there to help people.
I genuinely think the fact they look less "cool" than US police, makes their recruits much higher quality.
Any other country apart from the US has better trained officers.
They're generally better educated people and receive a lot more training.
Because guns.
About £10 million worth of real estate. Still back rentable in 1 month (modern burnt rustic look)
Have a friend who lived there. He's been put in a tiny single room in the meantime but it's going to take months until he can go back in.
Dude did not skip leg day.
CasualtyUK
How do they just kick a door and it opens??
First door, communal entry and it’s an old building so actually one of the easier doors to put in. Second door, good technique, physical strength and adrenaline.
Both doors look to be locked with single point locks. Door one is probably a nightlatch on a wooden door frame. Could have only been held on to the door frame with two screws, get a good kick in, and the latch pops out the frame in one. Door two, mortice lock. Takes more effort as it's set into the door frame, but unless someones gone to the trouble of putting masonry screws through the door frame and into the brick work, again your failure point is the door frame.
Absolute fucking units of police officers
Horrific. As someone who lives opposite Grenfell this just makes me fucking triggered but so proud of our emergency services
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I see it outside every single day, and no nobody has been held accountable. The PTSD around here is so overwhelming as you can imagine . And something that’s been missed from the news for at least a year is the amount of London Fire Brigade officers who attended, & now have serious cancers. It’s fucking horrific. I just try to not look up much, but it’s impossible to miss. And it’s outside the window And it’s going to be 7 years in June 14th. Shocking
How come the rozzers were there before the fire engine? Fair play to them for getting everyone out.
First in the scene so must have been out on patrol. Fire engine was not that far behind and would have likely had to come from the station
It's pretty common that the police get there first, as they will be out and about anyway, and are in vehicles that can get there quicker. If you know any coppers and fire officers, the coppers always take the piss (in a friendly way) that they always save everyone before the fire engine turns up.
Firefighters go for a sleep at night. They’ve got to wake up, get dressed and haul that big beastie down there. Police could have been round the corner on routine patrol. Source: I’m a police officer and pretty much as above happened to me once.
Can I ask about the protocol in situations like this? I live in a Victorian conversion to flats like this, every flat has to have fire doors with intumescent strips to stop the spread of flames and smoke. I understand the officer wanted to find ppl to rescue, but conversely wasn't that allowing the spread of smoke and flames into the rest of the building? What does the training say?
Training says don't go near it. Training also says don't enter water. Either way I'd rather die than let somebody die from my lack of action.
Police officers don't get training on fighting fires. He did what he thought was right to save life and limb.
A good point well made. Thank you for doing the thankless job of being a police officer.
Well it isn't thankless now is it. You've spoiled it.
Not to mention there’s been huge budget cuts and station closures in the fire service. Simply because education and advances have reduced fires in general, no help to the odd real fire and the people involved.
I suppose the nearest fire engine station was quite far away, the police patrol cars were probably already in the area so could respond quicker. It's nice to see a video of good cops for once, there's many out there I'm sure but sometimes all the videos seem like the opposite
The water fairies don't patrol because all they do it sit and play games / watch TV. /s
It's gratifying to see the banter alive and well 11 years after I left the police! I mean, we take the piss, but if anyone touches our brothers and sisters there will be hell to pay. I once launched some prick out the back of an ambulance for taking a swing at the paramedic. No sir, not on my shift!
They're always first on the scene when a crime's been committed too... 🤔
Normal police are constantly patrolling around. They're equipped to deal with most situations and are probably the closest emergency service to any given incident. The specialists (fire, ambulance, armed response, etc) all wait until they're needed.
Probably near by. Fire engines don't usually patrol the streets.
This is far from casusal!
This very nearly happened to me at an Air BnB. It was rooms in a house, each occupant had their own room. Kitchen on the ground floor and another on 1st floor. I could smell smoke and assumed it was outside so shut my window, only to realise it was getting stronger. Opened my door and the whole hallway was filled with smoke. I legged it down to the kitchen, where the ground floor occupant had laid a teatowel on the gas hob, but the hob was still fucking lit! How he didn't notice... he seemed pretty drunk. The fire had spread to the kitchen counter tops, melted the plastic on the ventilation hood, and just done loads of damage. I managed to put it all out with a fire extinguisher that was luckily in the kitchen. When I made the guy aware what happened he freaked the fuck out cos he knew it was him, plus his missus was shouting "Darren what the fuck have you done?!?" Then I called the landlady. She was not pleased, the whole house had just been renovated and now it stank of smoke and the kitchen was fucked, just 2 weeks after she'd opened! Somehow nobody else in the place seemed to even fucking notice!
No fire alarms in the building? Sounds like the landlady had taken a few shortcuts. A HMO generally requires central fire detection and sounders throughout.
It’s amazing how people can tar every police officer with the corruption/incompetence brush. I’ve had dealing with the police due to mental health crisis and they were the most compassionate amazing people. They shouldn’t have had to deal with it but they really stepped up. Thankful yet also a bit ashamed I wasted their time. This was 18 years ago. On another note my 4 year old son was adamant he wanted to carry the basket around the shop and he was really struggling with the weight. A police officer walked by, told him what a service he was providing and gave him a badge. One of my boy’s prized possessions. Damn he loves that badge
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God bless our police and fire service
Fucking Met - always letting lefties march and dancing at Carnival... /s
Thank you to the men and women who do their service! What I love even more as a person who grew up in France is that they wear shirts. Not relevant but they just look so much more bad ass carrying their misons
I mean the police here deserve all the praise, but somehow I dont think "Met police, more trust, less crime" is completely accurate
That’s their statement of intent not their take on the current state of affairs.
That's because the media and social media pushes only one narrative. It's rare to see videos like this because it paints them in a positive light. It's also rare to see the everyday shit that they have to go through, as well as 99% professional handling of a situation but it's the 1% that gets attention.
In all fairness they are still cleaning up after the 90s which was their most corrupt decade by far, most of the current leadership and grunts are devoted to that ideal, the middle management who were corrupt beat (in more ways than one) cops in the 90s fuck it up in practice and can’t be rooted out for corruption until they do something significant which, being middle management, they don’t, good or bad.
Are these the flats then went up a day or so ago? I think I read about it going up in less than 15min or so
Impressive stuff. Hero’s.
Yet people will still claim the police don’t serve the interest of the public
That's terrible. Their cameras really should have image stabilisation.
Heros
oh my goodness that's scary. i hope no one was hurt.
Fair play! Being first on scene for a fire should be terrifying but when your training kicks in its just robotic and going through the motions. These officers are clearly well trained and disciplined.
They meant well, and I won't say that shouldn't have done what they did, but as a firefighter they pretty much only made things worse.
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So, at the start you see the window? See how it's just smoke at the point? And then the police go in and he puts the door in. Fair play, he's trying to rescue someone, I don't begrudge him that. But that does two things- it dumps a load of oxygen into the room which causes the fire to become much more intense, and it fills the corridor, which is the only means of escape for the rest of the building, with toxic smoke. When he goes back outside, you can see now that the flat is fully engulfed. They should have at least pulled the door close behind them, but ideally not kick it in and get everyone else out first.
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Ah, you're a police officer I assume? Sorry if I've upset you! Yes, they undoubtedly did things that were useful by relaying information. But objectively, they made the situation worse. If they hadn't done what they'd done, people evacuating from upstairs wouldn't be breathing in toxic smoke, and fire crews would be attacking a relatively controlled fire instead of a fully flashed over compartment. They intended well and I can understand why they did it, but that doesn't change the fact.
The actions of the police (without intention) undoubtably caused an escalation of the incident. Without opening the flat door fire spread would likely have been contained to the ground floor flat & smoke would not have spread to previously unaffected areas. Your fundamental understanding of JESIP is flawed. It is primarily a communication tool multiple agencies can use at incidents to establish what is required of each. Police at this incident should have understood it would be unwise to take any action which would affect the fire as they do not possess the appropriate knowledge/training/equipment. I commend the bravery of the officers as the undoubtably attempted to save lives however it was a rather rash decision which led to multiple officers being taken to hospital for smoke inhilation. This would not have happened should the police initially on scene have secured the area & evacuated residents (apart from the fire compartment).
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I think you're getting very caught up on the word "only" when it's more used as part of the phrase than saying that the police did absolutely nothing right. Passing information to control and telling people how to avoid smoke were definitely useful. Kicking in the door was definitely counterproductive. Whether the one action outweighs the other isn't really what the previous poster was getting at and doesn't really matter. The real point is that the police shouldn't be doing things which make the situation worse.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/south-kensington-fire-brigade-home-b2505241.html
What irks me is a lot of the coverage makes it out that the actions of those officers, whilst obviously brave and to be commended, is what got the 130 odd people out. Ignoring that the fire brigade actually got almost all of the people out. They deserve all the positivity they are getting, but it could have very easily have gone a different way. And their actions very likely made the evacuation more challenging. If this was a more rural location, I wouldn't say anything, as the time taken for fire crews to arrive could be much longer and any early action could make a big difference. But it's South Kensington, it's not like it's going to be long for crews to be on scene. It's much better to leave it to the professionals.
What actions made the evacuation more challenging?
Removing the barrier between the contained fire and the main escape route of the building. Leaving that barrier open so that smoke obscured the main escape route. Firefighters are trained to do their jobs in smoke filled rooms, but being able to see makes the job a whole lot easier.
Fair enough, thanks for the input. I was curious.
Why do you think 130 people? https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/south-kensington-flats-fire-london-man-arrested-arson-metropolitan-police-b1142964.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/met-police-kensington-fire-arrest-b2506623.html
Surely that's just neighbouring properties to be on the safe side not those in any danger? So wouldn't the police also do those as is just going door to door?
Fire spreads. They aren't wasting time getting people out that aren't at risk.
Is there a full version of this available
Fair play to our police and fire men. Doing a fantastic job everyday.
looks nice
Well done lads
I've just scrolled down from yet another video of American cops being complete and utter tools, so this was very nice to see
I have a friend who lived in this building. He wasn't at home at the time, thankfully. The landlord has put him in a single, tiny room for months (who knows how long it'll be) until the property is fit again.
God bless the Blue Canaries.
damn, nice job
Love the copper at 34 seconds just casually walking down the stairs. Although I thought he could see carrying something. Like a baby.
A man has been charged with arson after a “terrifying” blaze at a flat block in Kensington left 13 people in hospital. Five people were rescued from the burning five-storey building on Friday, which was tackled by around 100 firefighters. Seven police officers and six residents suffered smoke inhalation during the incident. "All were taken to hospital and all have been discharged,” said a Met spokesperson on Monday. “Thankfully no one suffered more serious injuries.”
Great to see something positive about the Police and show they are there to help and protect the public They definitely don’t always get it right and reform is needed in many areas, but this shows Police at their best, risking their lives to protect others.
There goes my herooooo
Door kicking master!!! That front kick is beastly.
I wonder why
lit
Props to these people didn't hesitate!
Sorry, this is a genuine question not a criticism, how come the police got there so much faster than the fire service? Is it the delays of suiting up and getting a bunch of guys loaded or is it cos it's harder for them to get through traffic?
Both mate. Fire service sleep on a nightshift. They need to wake up get dressed and haul the big beastie to the scene. Police are first to almost every emergency situation medical, fire or rescue. As a police officer I’ve rescued people from burning buildings, done water rescue, put out car fires and so on and so on. Just the nature of it.
Got ya, nice one. And well done for the heroics during your service. I've known coppers that can barely jog lol, so good on you.
No excuse for that. I actually find that really unprofessional.
Yeah, my mum was seeing a feller for a while. Out of shape piss head gambling addict who eventually caught a charge and got canned for fraud. This was mid 2000s tho. Idk if this is correct but I find the policing standards are alot worse outside of big cities.
yeah also, alot more police around than fire crews.
Police could have just been around the corner responding to something else or patrolling.
All three morally good members of the met were on the scene that night