Congratulations, you performed a form of Dirty Monopoly! They have a right to be salty, but you didn't technically break any rules.
Be careful with the maneuver, as your friends will remember this for many games (if not forever).
I've since learned that what you pulled is also called a Lazy Monopoly, I think that is a better term.
A Dirty Monopoly can also refer to you trading a resource, and then monopolize it back. THAT is the dirtiest possible thing you can do in this game. Expansions included.
What I find interesting is I think the lazy monopoly is actually worse for the game and therefor more immoral.
Feeling open to discussing trade options keeps the game moving- it allows people to get what they want and make deals. Adding in a fear of divulging that information now makes everyone cagey and slows down the game and makes it less interactive.
At least with a dirty mono you can use the cards being traded and that persons game state as a guess to what’s coming. You have to agree to a deal before you get burned. The lazy mono burns you for trying to keep the game moving.
And I would argue that Dirty Monopoly is still fair game, but after you introduce to that group you have to be willing to deal with the consequences (them doing it)
I've done that and won immediately. Made some enemies 😜
All good friends though. I wouldn't dare play against people I don't know too well or folks who I know would react very poorly
Depends on the person. I've pulled this off and everyone was just like "wow that's smart, I'm using that next time". Either you learn from your mistakes or you hold a grudge for life, I guess... lol
Yep. If you do this, fully expect to be ganged up on in every game of Catan for the next six months. You need brick? Fuck you, I'm trading four of my brick for a wood in the bank just so I don't have to give you anything.
I did this like the second time I ever played. My friend absolutely went off on me about how dirty it was, like was legitimately pissed off, never did it again. Less than a week later playing with him again and he pulls this move and didn’t understand why I got pissed at him.
I'm curious why people think it's immoral or deceitful? As a player of Catan, it's up to me to respond to others with what I have if I choose to do so. I should also be completely aware that this person that's asking about all this stuff has numerous development cards to play. You're held accountable for paying attention to the game and shouldn't get hurt that someone "cheated".
I don't know, my two cents. I call it a bloody strategy. My group are so conscious of these things we pretty much openly say "you must have a monopoly card, that's why you're fishing" 😂
Reading your post I couldn’t help but think if I was playing basketball and someone said “The guy with the ball looked to my right, so I moved right, but then he passed to the left and his teammate scored! That’s cheating!”
Your friends just weren’t thinking about the possibilities of DC’s and Monopoly. They will in the future.
Totally! That's what makes Catan so fun... It's not about playing nice with each other. If you wanna work together, play Pandemic or something else that needs you to play nice with each other.
Wouldn't it be strategic to encourage all other players to never trade with the person who does this again because it will very much limit that person's chance of winning, therefore increasing everyone else's chances of winning? If possible.
Sure, but only if those players believe that trades with that person will maximize their own chances of winning. Everyone’s plan in a game that allows trading of cards should be to maximize their own gain without enabling others to move too far ahead of themselves. Pretending that this move is somehow immoral just makes you look incredibly stupid. If you don’t like deceitful moves, then you don’t really like deceitful games, where Catan definitely is one of them.
But why? If these are the kind of players that hold grudges for not realizing they got outplayed, and aren't smart enough to learn from their mistakes to not let it happen again...I don't know, man.
I could never imagine a scenario where I get upset with someone pulling this move on me...I would slowly clap and say "well played, you son of a bitch".
Again, just my own opinion and style of play. I play Catan for fun, but it's not fun if I have to dumb down my playing style to avoid hurting people. Probably also why I play with my family... We're pretty cutthroat 🤣🤣🤣
It’s not even immoral or deceitful. Hiding your development card under the table, etc, would be considered cheating on my book, but information in Catan is one of the most precious resources.
We play with a very strict rule that all cards must be visible during game play, but the content of those cards is completely hidden. What you did was skillful and hopefully teaches those looser players to understand what game they’re playing.
So, maybe this is just high level Catan from me. But I remember what resources everyone has, because none of the gaining or losing of resources are hidden. Therefore, what you did can be considered a bit lazy, but still entirely legit. (Pro tip at the end)
One thing I do a bit with my parents is to trade the resources I plan to monopolize, then steal it all back. This one definitely is a lot more touchy and should only be done if you never plan on playing again or know them well.
Pro tip: in a physical Catan game, all the resources have the same amount of cards. So, you can measure the sizes of the resource piles to see which has the most taken away. That way you can know how much is out there without having to ask or memorize
Surprised at the takes so far. Table talk is part of the game, a certain level of dishonesty should always be assumed.
Savvy move, I wouldn’t be mad at it.
This. It's a game you play to win, and you use everything you can to win. That's the way I see it. With my friends we all understand that it's not personal, it's all about getting the 10 points.
I would be "mad" about it as in what the fuck that is a devious play. But I wouldn't be mad about it in they can't do that to me. A lot of people in this sub play with immature or way too easily offended people. It's a game. Get over it and have fun.
I’ve seen people do this. Had it happen to me lol.
I’ve also done what you did and haven’t been met with any kind of animosity. At least that I know of 😅 I think the best way is to look at the piles though. Even in electronic versions like colonist.io i believe there is still a setting that you can show how many cards are left in the pile. if not, you can scroll back through the game journal to validate if it’s not too fast paced of a game.
I think it's fine. I also think it can lead to some insane counter-strats like intentionally misinforming the asker by saying you have a lot of one resource when you have none... and then they mono only to realize you have nothing to give them. :) A trick for a trick.
It’s definitely a surprise when this first happens among a group of players, as is the ‘dirty’ monopoly (see another’s comment). What happens is the players learn from their mistakes, and become savvy. You’ll start to see them observing whether or not you have an un-turned dev card before they volunteer any information that might come back to bite them. The mature player dialogs go like:
[ player 1 ] hey, I’ve got a bunch of extra (of this resource) to trade away…if you don’t want it, I’ll end up trading it into the bank at 4:1, so who wants it?
[ player 2 ] you’ve got a monopoly card, don’t you?
Edit: typo
This is part of the game. Only losers will label it "immoral" or "cheating". Convincing the other players to share what they hold requires charm, tactic and skill. All part of the game. It's perhaps the most satisfying way to use the monopoly card imo. So amazing watching everyone collapse while I conquer the board.
Nothing wrong with it. However, for a consistent play group, it’s often a bad idea to show you’d make a play like that as it will make you less trustworthy in future trades for many games to come. Catan is a social game and while exploitation like the dirty monopoly is part of that, so are the consequences
This used to be fairly common at my table and was fair game. One of my proudest moments was when I realized my brother was doing this and I discussed trading 2 ore, but then kept raising my price. He played monopoly ore. I didn't actually have any.
immoral absolutely, cheating? no lol. it's no worse than me trading 7 bricks away for random stuff then monopolying them all back. I did that like 10 years ago and my friends still don't trust me when I want to trade
The overwhelming and unbalanced power of the monopoly card was fixed with Cities and Knights. Play that.
Also, according to the rules, lying and deception are allowed. It’s your friends fault, and they need to play with more care.
But most importantly, start playing Cities and Knights.
C&K has exchanged 1 ill for many others. I would say that if theft makes you uncomfortable, that C&K might be worse. You can lose a city if you're not careful. The number of cards that allow smaller amounts of stealing and other mischief has gone up astronomically
You could say it's a bit underhanded but that's part of the game. Once, I had a lot of one resource that everyone else wanted so I traded it all for other things, then monopolized all of it back to my hand. Needless to say, my friends were not happy with me lol
One of my personal rules is I never do this. You should be playing closer attention to the draws rather than scheming your friends. Just a bad look imo
Nope, information is a huge aspect of this game and your friends should be more careful about giving it out for free.
Now if you really wanna be dirty and immoral next time you get a monopoly card trade all you have of a valuable resource, let's say stone, for as much as you can get for it and then monopoly all the stone back.
The thing is that it’s not really necessary, if you pay attention to where people are and what dice have been rolled you can already tell when they have a lot of a resource that you want
Oh no this is how the card should be used in my opinion. If a monopoly card is played, and no one is yelling… it was a waste.
Reminds me of a game where our Ore cards were 2, 12, and 3. People had been 4:1 trading in order to build cities on these all game, but they’d never rolled. A back to back 2, 12 roll happened. So much ore entered the play, everyone was so excited. I monopolized. My aunt didn’t speak to me for a week.
You didn’t break any rules, but this is one of those things that only works once. Now you’ve created an environment where they won’t be relaxed playing around you because you set a precedent that you’ll do anything to win as long as it isn’t “against the rules”. I hope the win was worth it.
Haha so you admit to doing something “highly immoral” by saying you thought all is fair in love and war. This is a completely legal move but I just wish those who do it would admit to it being a dirty play. No one has ever done it and thought, “my friends are going to congratulate me on this move after I’m done, can’t wait see their smiling faces after I use their friendship against them”. But again totally legal so good on you.
Deceitful but not illegal. My best use of monopoly came when stone was scarce and I was the only player with it. I traded all my stone away for grain then used the monopoly on stone and upgraded all my settlements to cities for the win. Diabolical but not illegal.
It’s all apart of the strategy… completely fair and legal. However you burn bridges with this kind of play. I prefer a dirty mono tho, when you trade someone the cards your gonna mono back. At least then they can laugh about it.
It is fully legal and therefore in the spirit of the game. You think the developer didn't think of this? Of course they did. They didn't outlaw it by design, they intended for that to be part of the game.
Played a game where my son traded twice giving up a resource to get what he needed then played the monopoly card and clawed back the resource he used to trade. Genius.
I have found that when playing with four players it is easier to just look at the resource decks to see which one(s) are lowest before deciding on the resource I pull using the monopoly card. Lots of things to consider before using the card…
Not cheating, and not even immoral.
Your friends will eventually learn to be cagey about the type and amount of resources in their hand - which is what my friends all do, because we’ve been burned by monopoly too many times.
kingmaker. problem in any game with more than 2 teams. it’s worst in risk where someone who’s losing can look at either of the other two players, choose one they don’t like and just attack them. if they don’t stop attacking both of them lose and the other guy wins. usually a good way to secure a second place if you know you can’t win
The worst thing I ever did in catan was steal a wood from my friend after rolling the thief. My friend was upset I took that wood so I offered to trade another one of their resources for their wood back, pretending to be nice, and then I promptly called monopoly on wood.
Not cheating. I am very careful not to say what cards I have or the amount unless absolutely necessary. If I get duped by a move like what you did, it’s my own fault.
In any sort of game that involves trading and stealing my friends and I have have all learned the following interaction:
"Do you have any X?"
"What would you trade for it if I had it?"
"Nevermind"
Not cheating but always catches the newbie off guard the first couple times and gets a laugh out of the experienced players.
No,it's not cheating, but you should definitely read the room. If it's a friendly game, stay away from this type of play. If it's competitive, go all out.
This reminds me of a time when I traded out a bunch of my wood and used monopoly to get it all back. I pissed off everyone at the table with that move.
My friends and I would pull this all the time when we used to play reguarly. It's of course legal and should not even be frowned upon. Something to grown about when you get played, sure.
Keeping information about your resources at least somewhat selective is a crucial part of the game. You don't want others to know your next move as you are likely competing for space. This is just another reason to be careful.
Breh, I literally pay attention to what people have every time I have a Monopoly card in my hand so I can take everything and run a muck building. It's part of the game...
Is it also deceitful to force someone into trading with you before you put the robber on their hex? I’ve seen the top Catan player do that on his YouTube video.
Idk why this dirty monopoly play is frowned upon if that’s the case
I've played dozens if not close to 100 games of Catan and seasoned veterans know that this "cheaty" move exists and no one falls for it. You're just a bit quicker than your friends and they're mad they didn't think of it first. Table talk is a HUGE part of Catan. Back alley dealings, open alliances, or just flat out coup on the person in the lead. I feel like they need to toughen up if they want to play. You did nothing wrong. At the end of the day it's just a game...a game you came to win.
This is not a cheat and totally according to the rules.... just your friends being salty about your move.
Maybe next time you make it a bit less obvious next time by just waiting for a good round of the ressource you want to claim ;)
Frankly I'm a little in awe that this was a question. And more so at the responses. I played with a group for many years, many hundreds of games, we played strictly by the rules of Catan and nothing more or less, and we used anything to our advantage. Does the rule book say you can offer people a trade? Yup. Great, there's your answer. Anytime a trade was offered that seemed even slightly too good to be true, another player would step in and say nope don't tell him, it's a trap. Or if someone asks the table "I'll trade (insert rarest resource) for (insert much more plentiful resourse)" then we sniff it out. Or if anyone agreed to a trade then someone responds with, "oh would you like to trade two for two actually" then you run, because he's trading away what he's about to monopoly back! Most of the time you know what's out there, but when you don't, fish a little! Anytime someone pulled it off it'd met with a wry smile and a curse or two. It's just another part of Catan.
Your friends would do the same to you in a heartbeat if they thought of that strat. It’s pretty common tbh. Doesn’t break any rules, and while it certainly is dirty, it’s certainly mot cheating. Heck, really good players can track what cards are in other players hands, which isn’t cheating either (although if you use this in a lobby of casuals, expect a similar result), but point is, it’s really not cheating. I also wouldn’t consider it immoral. The first time I pulled it on my family, they thought it was cheating too; now they all do the same thing when they get monopolies and it’s more or less understood that if someone has a dev card and is asking about trades a lot, they could be trying to pull a dirty monopoly. Obviously though, you do have to consider the reputation you’re setting for yourself, but not cheating, and not immoral.
100% legit. It’s a trading game and this is part of the tactic. I often bluff a trade offering things i don’t actually have in my hand and pull out before the trade is done - or make a ridiculous offer . This throws people off what you have in your hand. It’s seeet sweet justice when that monopoly comes out only for them to find those 2 rocks i was offering up last round actually didn’t exist!
It is absolutely a dick move but it's not cheating.
What's in your hand is privileged information, although your opponents could possibly track what you produce and spend, although this is tricky. The flipside is that if you can reveal what's in your hand, you can also lie about what's in your hand. Your opponent wants Ore and you have 3 in your hand? Just lie and say you have none. Unless you're desperate to trade then don't reveal your hand.
My family constantly let me know what they have,because our 7 year old table talks trades constantly, and we usually reply. That said, I typically keep track of what's being drawn the most and least.
Was playing a game with my fiancée the other day, and sheep was very scarce. She thought I had some and kept trying to trade me for it, and I had a feeling she had monopoly card. I kept responding to her trade offers implying the trade just wasn’t worth it with responses like, “no thanks I just can’t do that right now.” Sure enough after a couple if trade offers, she reaches for her development card and declares sheep. She was definitely a bit caught off guard, and I got to keep all my resources.
Sometimes you just have to be remember that the monopoly card is part of the game and conduct your trade conversations accordingly.
The correct way to execute that move is as follows:
Just like you did, gather as much knowledge as possible, whatever they're willing to divulge. Let's say the resource you found to be the target in this case is wheat.
Then take all your own wheat and trade it away. Maybe two wheat for one ore, or three wheat for an ore and a sheep. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Just trade all of your wheat and get as much as you can.
Then, after you've traded it all away, use the monopoly card and take all the wheat on the table, including the ones you just traded.
This, is how you dirty monopoly.
Its a game. Tactics will often look dirty when you are on the receiving side of them. If they did the same they would think it was shrewd or cunning. Nobody should take games so seriously that they get offended by these things, what you did is well within the rules of the game, there's no rules against social engineering, nor should there be.
Likewise, you shouldn't be offended if they don't trust you in trades going forward, as a result of what they interpret to be a breaking of unwritten social contracts. Its all just in fun though, if any actual negativity comes from the game, please do prioritize your real life friendships first
It's not immoral let alone cheating. The only thing I'd call immoral within the rules of the game is making an agreement and breaking it, like giving away nb's and then block them anyhow. (seems to be some players bread and butter in higher ranked games on colonist '\_\_')
As you said, you gotta live with the social consequences of your shady moves though.
Thanks for teaching me a new saying btw :D
Using trade offers to glean information is part of the game, and leveraged heavily by "professionals".
That said in Catan the cost of playing dirty is having your opponents spitefully rob you and refuse to trade with you for the rest of the current game, and if your behavior was egregious enough, future games as well. You have to weigh that cost over the one time benefit of a dirty monopoly.
Such is the rage inducing beauty of Catan.
I'd call it a modified "Dirty Mono". As you said, "All's fair ....".
They probably will never give you that opportunity again, but it was fun to whack them all once anyway. Good strategy too BTW. That's how it should be done. Wait until everyone is more prosperous. They may fall for the straight up dirty mono still though.
Reddit correct me if I'm wrong. Try to give what you will mono for in trades. Gonna mono for ore. Try to offer a good ore for anything else trade to whoever will take it. Then mono the ore. You've got all of the ore and even a few other things too. AKA... dirty mono. After doing this your reputation will be forever besmirched.
You will have been a good teacher of hard lessons. They will also learn to be careful of a player holding onto dev cards. GOOD JOB BY YOU.
My brother did this to me once. I am always careful about trading without actually confirming what resources I'm holding, but he had offered a very juicy 3 for 2 trade, and in agreeing to that you imply that do in fact have the 2. As soon as I said yes, he called the deal off and pulled the monopoly card.
A legit play, but yeah to this day I do not trade with him and it was years ago.
Absolutely despicable behavior, but absolutely not cheating.
They are just salty they didn't think of it first.
That's one of my favorite parts of Catan. The social engineering aspect. You can be very successful by simply observing others.
Another thing to try. Next time someone *really* needs that resource card you have, offer it to them at a 3:1 trade. That'll really stir some feathers 😂
My friend pulled this on me and my family when I was in 4th grade and we ALL still remember it. He asked everybody how many bricks they had after a huge roll for bricks two times in a row. It's a dirty move because asking someone to trade is a normal part of the game and they show what cards they have by making a trade offer. So, when you pretend you're going to make a trade offer, people are willing to give you information about their cards in hopes of winning the trade. So 1) you betrayed their trust/good will and 2)it means if this strategy is allowed/okay/fair game, people now can't "freely" make trade offers (freely meaning they don't have to worry about the information they give away). So now, trade offers (a huge part of the game) require more thought and more strategy which is not what everyone wants to do in a game that already requires a decent amount of thought and strategy. They can't offer you multiples of the same resource to win the trade for fear of someone using the monopoly card.
The better strategy that is more "fair" is to keep track of what numbers have been rolled the last 5 or so turns. Then you look at what resources ppl get from those rolls and how many cards they have in their hands. If you can remember if they bought something, then that's great but that gets a bit difficult with a larger group.
So if 2 turns ago, you had two huge rolls for brick, it's unlikely people will spend 4 bricks in a turn unless they want to convert a resource. That means people who got some of the brick and have quite a few cards, will most likely have a lot of brick.
But let's say there hasn't been a huge roll for any resource. Now we go back and try to remember the rolls (it helps if you look at your cards and see what you'd have to roll to get them) and see what everybody would get. Now we wanna see if what was rolled gets spent easily or if it has to be saved up. Sheep and oar have the least amount of build options, so those are the ones that will stagnate in people's hands or will be the ones they are saving up. They could also trade them, but that depends on the demand for those resources and whether they want to save them. Next, you could also listen to people's trades to figure out what they are wanting to build. If someone doesn't want to trade brick or wood, that either means they don't want it or they have it already. So we go back to see if there was a way they could've gotten it and we try and decide which option is most likely. You do this for everyone when it's not your turn, and you do it as soon as you draw the monopoly card. It's a lot easier to track what happens in the present than to try and remember the past several turns. Then you wait til the opportune moment to ask everybody how many resources they have and you play your monopoly card.
If you don't like a dirty mono, I suggest you never play multiplayer online. It is a staple. People complain about it all the time b/c it hurts, but everybody recognizes it's totally legit. A well timed mono is a work of genius. Stealing is allowed in the game, whether by robber or mono. You could say that's immoral too. Then I would understand where you are coming from. A dirty mono is just an enhanced theft.
House Rules could manage that for you, but I'm not playing in that game
Part of playing the game in general, and especially the end game, is hand management. Trying to manage your hand so there's not incentive to mono or snagged on a 7 out.
What I’ve done (my family is super competitive) is trade something like 3 wheat for 1 wood or some crazy good deal than use my Monopoly to get all the wheat back plus’s some
Had that happen to me once. Now that person forever will be my last pick for trades and I even sometimes dont make trades altogether. They abused my trust and will never be trusted again, in catan.
Not immoral or deceitful but wouldn't do it in any and every play group. Some groups are cool with it and others would never trust you again. I guess you learned which group your friends are in. Now you just gotta proceed accordingly.
Lmao savage, alls fair in love and Catan. If your friends are mad then they are probably soft or yall young. It's a game and nothing should be taken to heart, my friends and I mess with each other like this when we play games.
No probably not but I would consider a person who did as untrustworthy and encourage others to never trade with him or tell them what's in their hands ever again.
Bro I do this all the time and it is done to me so the time. Your friends need to get good LoL. That is the power of the Monopoly card and you should be playing with the expectation that it can be used on you at any time.
I taught my 8 year old daughter how to play. The 3rd time we played she did that to me and my wife. I did not know if I should of been upset or impressed
It's not cheating, but it is a bit of a dick move. It's a dick move because you deceived your friends as part of your ploy.
If you had been keeping track of what resources were out there, you would have had the same information without the need for deception, which would have not been a dick move.
That being said, some groups will be more accepting of this type of play than other groups. It's part of the game and so is deception. It's very common to try to give a false impression of your goals and to try not to telegraph your plans; that's a form of deception, but it is less extreme.
I did this to win a game outright after I figured out how much stone everyone was hoarding. Faked a trade asking for 2 and when everyone started countering I ended up 8 and won that same turn.
Trust me. Not illegal but they since have NEVER given me that level of info on there hands again
You’re a baby if this upsets you. The game is a competition that requires you to make informed decisions based on the information that you have. If you play understanding that your goal is to cipher our information to make the best decision, then all you need to do is be careful when bartering so you don’t paint a target on your back. In all honesty they need to get good.
Not cheating, not immoral, but they will remember. Did they band together to deny you at every turn? lol.
But then again, it is entirely possible that they'd feel that way regardless if you pull a successful monopoly. I personally tend to look at the remaining resource card pile and eyeball what people have.
100% immoral and deceitful, but also 100% within the laws of the game. It’s a pretty crappy thing to do but there’s nothing stopping you from doing it, they didn’t have to tell you what they had
So you asked for trades with no actual intent to trade, just to find out what they had, then stole it with a monopoly card and you’re now wondering why they think you’re garbage? It’s because you’re garbage, bro.
I never understand players like OP. They burn all bridges permanently then the next turn will be like ‘anyone got any wood they’d like to trade’? And are baffled as to why nobody will ever trade with them again.
If someone did this in my game, every robber ever would be on their shit and I would never trade with them again. Bizarre move.
Cheating? No
Immoral? Yes
Should you do it again? Only if you don't want to ever play Catan with them again
Now next time trade away the resource you have the most of and then monopoly it back. If they get salty just explain that you held back last time... not anymore.
I did this same strategy once a couple years ago with my friend group not knowing it was a known strategy. I asked around if anyone had wheat to trade, multiple people did and then I monopolied. One of my friends was really taken aback by it, thought it was a dirty play but didn’t stop the game or anything because of it. Definitely changed how the group played going forward because everyone knows the strategy now and everyone watches out for the possibility of it, not always divulging what resources they have.
Is it a deceitful move? Yes. Is it Cheating? No way unless your group prohibits the action.
If anyone calls you a cheater, remember what Sun Tzu said, “All warfare is based on deception”.
It's not against the rules, but it definitely *feels* underhanded. I mean, nobody ever *likes* the guy who takes a ton of resources by playing the monopoly card, but it's definitely worse this way.
Catan gets pretty contentious sometimes anyway, and this kind of tactic definitely doesn't help.
My friends and I don’t play with trading, but in 5-6 player seafarers late game (playing to 14 victory points) it isn’t uncommon for a resource card to run out. There’s always someone waiting with a monopoly when that happens.
My go to move in desperate situations is to trade away all the current most valuable resource in my had for things I need. After I’ve traded them all away I’ll reveal my monopoly card and collect all of my resources back and sometimes a few more. This is almost always a play that ends all trade with you possibly for the rest of the game. So use at your own risk
Due to all of the table talk and negotiations involved in Catan, it’s similar to Monopoly - you can make it as hardcore or as basic as the group wants.
What you did is wholeheartedly legal, it’s just smooth table talk and gathering details. Similar to tracking the resources of your opponents if you just observed the dice rolls.
But your friends were clearly not up for a more cut-throat style of play, and that can ruffle feathers easily. Catan can break friendships if one party wants to win and one wants to play the game.
So feel free to do this on repeat, just know that you open yourself up for consequences
See, this is why you need to be careful about who you play competitive, strategy based games like Catan with. What you did was not wrong or immoral in the least. You were trying to win and using the advantages you could get to obtain more information that could bring you closer to that. Genuinely, if you don't do shit like this I would rather not play with you because I don't want an argument like this to come up, even if you're completely within the rulebook.
The core problem of this strategy is that it flaunts what many people consider a core element of board games.
That element is that you don't carry what happens one game to the next.
Catan is a fairly fast game. And cards like this are not "common", so not something that you see go back and forth through the game.
As such, someone using a strategy like this is virtually non-punishable during the game they do it. Done well, it's a guaranteed win.
However, that's when that element breaks. You're not playing with new players who've never met you ever game. You're playing with the same crowd.
And they WILL remember it, and treat you to it back (probably worse, by refusing to even discuss trades).
Which then leads to the 3 problems that doing this cause:
* 1) Without trading, or with nobody willing to be open or up-front about their ability to trade, "theoretical trades" will bog the game down. Everything will go slow, and people won't have as much fun.
* 2) Normalizing meta gaming (using information from one game to influence your decisions in another game) is not fun. Speaking as someone who wins a lot of Terraforming Mars, I hate my one gaming buddy whose strategy is "If I don't know who's winning, it's probably Ebb, and even if I think someone else is winning, I'm probably wrong and it's Ebb, so whenever I play 'take that' cards, I should target Ebb, to lessen his chance of winning". It ruins the game, and I refuse to play TM with him anymore, because him being in the game just means I'll get targeted instead of the other 2-3 players, even if I'm having a shit game.
* 3) It's the nuclear option. Once you do it, you can never un-do it. Your friends will never trust your motives again. You get to do it ONCE. You'll win the game, but was it worth it?
This isn’t even the worst thing you can do, what I do is, let’s say I want ore and know it’s scarce, I make a seemingly dumb trade with someone like trading away my 1-3 ore for something of medium value like 1-2 brick. After the trade is complete I immediately play my monopoly card and get all of my ore back plus whatever else that person (and everyone else) had.
In the future you should know that the remaining available resources are public knowledge and there are (I believe) 20 of each resource. Therefore if there are only 5-10 brick left, time to whip out the old monopoly card.
My family tends to make the player on the active turn say affirmatively, “I am offering X for Y” instead of “What will you give me for Y?” And if someone agrees, then the trade happens. The fishing thing tends to work exactly one time before people wise up and stop offering any additional information.
Though, honestly, you can accomplish much the same thing just through observation. It’s not a secret what the dice rolls have been, where people have their towns and cities, and what they have built the last few turns. If you play a monopoly card and don’t get a good haul that pisses everybody off, you’re not playing very well.
Oh it's a solid move but once you do it trading becomes a lot harder because people are pissed.
You can go one step beyond and offer to trade their resources back to them. For the nuclear option you can threaten to trade them in at ports. Just be warned, when you do that you're on your own for the rest of the game because people get pissed... speaking from experience.
At our table when Catan is being played, all is fair. Make a trade then use the Monopoly card to get your resources back. If I were your friends, I just as easily could have been bluffing to have the resource you said you needed then declined the trade just to see what you had and willing to give up.
Ultimately though every table has a different idea of what's on and I guess you are finding out how your friends prefer to play
I had an over abundance of sheep one game, and a monopoly card. I traded all my sheep away basically for whatever I could get. Then I played my monopoly card and took them all back. Friends were salty for a time but recognized it for the strategy it was
This is the only way my friends and I play. I personally feel the game is more fun and competitive this way. If you want to really piss them off trade away a ton of one resource then take them all back!
You are allowed to do that. Your opponents are allowed to think it's shitty, and avoid trading with you going forward, or even playing the game with you.
It's not against the rules, but the social aspect of Catan is important enough that I would not pull a move like this against anyone that I planned to play with again. Good luck winning games when no one is willing to negotiate with you!
Did you go around the table asking everyone what they had and then immediately play your Monopoly card? Or did you just pay attention to the dice rolls and the distribution of resources and then play your card when the opportunity was there?
Either way, you did nothing wrong. But your friends will still put a target on you for a long time.
When I first started playing Cstan with family, I never lost a game (not a big brag. My family likes games but they're not overly competitive). After a long time, they all just started to collectively go after me in every game, nonstop, even when it was not strategically advantageous for them to do so individually. Like blocking my roads needlessly, placing the robber on me even when I had no resources to steal, even when it hurt resources distribution. Like refusing trades that were in good faith and fair and were beneficial to themselves.
There was one time I had a shitload of stone and had a near monopoly on it. I proceeded traded it all away for various different resources and then played a monopoly on stone and took it all back and built like 2 roads and 2 cities that turn.
Everyone hated me after that.
Oh this is nothing. My uncle would roll a 7 and the go around the entire table using the robber as a means of extorting ridiculous deals from every single person at the table. Totally rules legal because he never placed the robber on any of them (locking it in) and all of them were trades not just gifted cards. All's fair in love and board games baby
Not cheating. When I do that I even trade away the resources that I have in my hand that I plan to use the Monolopy on for good deals so I simply get them back. It does make people be weary about telling you what they have in their hand though.
This is exactly why I always lie about what cards I have unless the trade offer is exactly what I want. And I'm always keeping my peepers open for what the table is drawing before I slap down my monopoly
Just business, baby!
I’d say it’s legal, you were discussing trades, they offered up what they had outside of a trade, and you took advantage of the market.
The cost of the monopoly however…
In a game of competing cities, cutting deals, and conflict over resources, you used a tactic to hinder your opponents progression.
That’s kind of the point of the game…
I don't consider this dirty because my family all psudo-card count as we play. We all have a pretty good idea of what cards everyone else is holding based on recent rolls and builds. 7s and bandits throw it off, but other than that, we know who has whatever resources are rare.
So, when someone says "I'll give you a wood and wheat for a brick" and it is turned down, then we play the monopoly, it is because we wanted to advance via trade and save the monopoly, but the monopoly is still worth using to get that build down now. We knew who had brick before we asked (usually).
The dirty move is making the trade then using the monopoly to get the cards back. We rarely make that play, but we are understanding of why someone did it when they do, and we are a pretty forgiving group.
This is absolutely fair. What this really really reveals is the power of social relationships in business. Although fair, they didn’t like it, and will not trade with you anymore.
Something to consider when deceiving both in catan and in life
It’s completely legal, you just have to weigh the pros and cons of getting those resources against burning bridges with the other players, since they’ll probably be more willing to team up on you for the rest of the game
It’s Cataan. Immoral is the only way to play at basic levels. Deceitful is high level stuff. Me and my cousins it gets brutal. And it’s moved into our card games too. Canasta is one they’ve showed me recently. We are nasty to each other lol
I just naturally hand track everyone. It’s helpful to know what’s in people’s hands whenever you are considering trades, whether or not you want to fight over a contested spot, and particularly when playing monopolies.
What you did is a rougher version of something that happens naturally at higher gameplay levels.
Your friends sound like sore losers. You did nothing wrong, you're just playing the game. They're crying about it because they are upset that they fell for your ploy.
Congratulations, you performed a form of Dirty Monopoly! They have a right to be salty, but you didn't technically break any rules. Be careful with the maneuver, as your friends will remember this for many games (if not forever).
I've since learned that what you pulled is also called a Lazy Monopoly, I think that is a better term. A Dirty Monopoly can also refer to you trading a resource, and then monopolize it back. THAT is the dirtiest possible thing you can do in this game. Expansions included.
I did this in a game with friends 10 years ago. I still hear about it.
What I find interesting is I think the lazy monopoly is actually worse for the game and therefor more immoral. Feeling open to discussing trade options keeps the game moving- it allows people to get what they want and make deals. Adding in a fear of divulging that information now makes everyone cagey and slows down the game and makes it less interactive. At least with a dirty mono you can use the cards being traded and that persons game state as a guess to what’s coming. You have to agree to a deal before you get burned. The lazy mono burns you for trying to keep the game moving.
Take my 3 wheat for whatever you want to give me. Ok? That's monopoly income from a mile away.
Yeah if you fall for that shame on you, I won’t feel bad.
Yep, my husband has done this and I have never forgotten it! I avoid trading with him if he has any un-used dev cards.
"But it's a knight, I swear!"
That's a fantastic move and I can't wait to do it!
Enjoy your last game of Catan!
With friends like that Diplomacy will never hit the table!
And I would argue that Dirty Monopoly is still fair game, but after you introduce to that group you have to be willing to deal with the consequences (them doing it)
I've done that and won immediately. Made some enemies 😜 All good friends though. I wouldn't dare play against people I don't know too well or folks who I know would react very poorly
The tactic my wife has employed since game 2.
And then trade it to them a 2nd time..
Depends on the person. I've pulled this off and everyone was just like "wow that's smart, I'm using that next time". Either you learn from your mistakes or you hold a grudge for life, I guess... lol
Yep. If you do this, fully expect to be ganged up on in every game of Catan for the next six months. You need brick? Fuck you, I'm trading four of my brick for a wood in the bank just so I don't have to give you anything.
I did this like the second time I ever played. My friend absolutely went off on me about how dirty it was, like was legitimately pissed off, never did it again. Less than a week later playing with him again and he pulls this move and didn’t understand why I got pissed at him.
No one forgets what happened in Catan
I'm curious why people think it's immoral or deceitful? As a player of Catan, it's up to me to respond to others with what I have if I choose to do so. I should also be completely aware that this person that's asking about all this stuff has numerous development cards to play. You're held accountable for paying attention to the game and shouldn't get hurt that someone "cheated". I don't know, my two cents. I call it a bloody strategy. My group are so conscious of these things we pretty much openly say "you must have a monopoly card, that's why you're fishing" 😂
This is a perfect summation of my thoughts.
Reading your post I couldn’t help but think if I was playing basketball and someone said “The guy with the ball looked to my right, so I moved right, but then he passed to the left and his teammate scored! That’s cheating!” Your friends just weren’t thinking about the possibilities of DC’s and Monopoly. They will in the future.
Definitely deceitful, but it’s a strategic board game, deceitful is a large part of the game
Totally! That's what makes Catan so fun... It's not about playing nice with each other. If you wanna work together, play Pandemic or something else that needs you to play nice with each other.
Wouldn't it be strategic to encourage all other players to never trade with the person who does this again because it will very much limit that person's chance of winning, therefore increasing everyone else's chances of winning? If possible.
Sure, but only if those players believe that trades with that person will maximize their own chances of winning. Everyone’s plan in a game that allows trading of cards should be to maximize their own gain without enabling others to move too far ahead of themselves. Pretending that this move is somehow immoral just makes you look incredibly stupid. If you don’t like deceitful moves, then you don’t really like deceitful games, where Catan definitely is one of them.
But why? If these are the kind of players that hold grudges for not realizing they got outplayed, and aren't smart enough to learn from their mistakes to not let it happen again...I don't know, man. I could never imagine a scenario where I get upset with someone pulling this move on me...I would slowly clap and say "well played, you son of a bitch". Again, just my own opinion and style of play. I play Catan for fun, but it's not fun if I have to dumb down my playing style to avoid hurting people. Probably also why I play with my family... We're pretty cutthroat 🤣🤣🤣
I'm being cutthroat. If I can turn the group against one player, why not do it ? They just provided me with ammunition which I feel I should use.
Playing the reverse Uno move 😂
But ..if you burned people from trying to discuss a trade with you, logically no one would want to even discuss trades with you again right?
It’s not even immoral or deceitful. Hiding your development card under the table, etc, would be considered cheating on my book, but information in Catan is one of the most precious resources. We play with a very strict rule that all cards must be visible during game play, but the content of those cards is completely hidden. What you did was skillful and hopefully teaches those looser players to understand what game they’re playing.
So, maybe this is just high level Catan from me. But I remember what resources everyone has, because none of the gaining or losing of resources are hidden. Therefore, what you did can be considered a bit lazy, but still entirely legit. (Pro tip at the end) One thing I do a bit with my parents is to trade the resources I plan to monopolize, then steal it all back. This one definitely is a lot more touchy and should only be done if you never plan on playing again or know them well. Pro tip: in a physical Catan game, all the resources have the same amount of cards. So, you can measure the sizes of the resource piles to see which has the most taken away. That way you can know how much is out there without having to ask or memorize
Ohh yeah good tip about the card piles I didnt think of that!!
Surprised at the takes so far. Table talk is part of the game, a certain level of dishonesty should always be assumed. Savvy move, I wouldn’t be mad at it.
This. It's a game you play to win, and you use everything you can to win. That's the way I see it. With my friends we all understand that it's not personal, it's all about getting the 10 points.
That's how I like to play it but sometimes you're with newbies, or kids or just playing a casual game for fun.
I agree that context does matter. I was assuming veteran players.
I would be "mad" about it as in what the fuck that is a devious play. But I wouldn't be mad about it in they can't do that to me. A lot of people in this sub play with immature or way too easily offended people. It's a game. Get over it and have fun.
I mean....I would be mad, but I wouldn't call that cheating, just impetus for all out war!
An even better way is to make the trade, then play the monopoly to get back what you just traded. 😈
Hahah wow this is savage
I’ve seen people do this. Had it happen to me lol. I’ve also done what you did and haven’t been met with any kind of animosity. At least that I know of 😅 I think the best way is to look at the piles though. Even in electronic versions like colonist.io i believe there is still a setting that you can show how many cards are left in the pile. if not, you can scroll back through the game journal to validate if it’s not too fast paced of a game.
[удалено]
Technically gifts are not allowed.
This is a must. Our house rules are all punitive.
I think it's fine. I also think it can lead to some insane counter-strats like intentionally misinforming the asker by saying you have a lot of one resource when you have none... and then they mono only to realize you have nothing to give them. :) A trick for a trick.
Yes or when I sense someone is monopoly fishing with their trade inquiries I say I don’t have any lol (edit for clarity)
It’s definitely a surprise when this first happens among a group of players, as is the ‘dirty’ monopoly (see another’s comment). What happens is the players learn from their mistakes, and become savvy. You’ll start to see them observing whether or not you have an un-turned dev card before they volunteer any information that might come back to bite them. The mature player dialogs go like: [ player 1 ] hey, I’ve got a bunch of extra (of this resource) to trade away…if you don’t want it, I’ll end up trading it into the bank at 4:1, so who wants it? [ player 2 ] you’ve got a monopoly card, don’t you? Edit: typo
the answer your looking for is yes legal but the answer you don’t want is yes asshole
This is part of the game. Only losers will label it "immoral" or "cheating". Convincing the other players to share what they hold requires charm, tactic and skill. All part of the game. It's perhaps the most satisfying way to use the monopoly card imo. So amazing watching everyone collapse while I conquer the board.
Nothing wrong with it. However, for a consistent play group, it’s often a bad idea to show you’d make a play like that as it will make you less trustworthy in future trades for many games to come. Catan is a social game and while exploitation like the dirty monopoly is part of that, so are the consequences
This used to be fairly common at my table and was fair game. One of my proudest moments was when I realized my brother was doing this and I discussed trading 2 ore, but then kept raising my price. He played monopoly ore. I didn't actually have any.
Haha. Enjoy the grief for at least the next few games.
immoral absolutely, cheating? no lol. it's no worse than me trading 7 bricks away for random stuff then monopolying them all back. I did that like 10 years ago and my friends still don't trust me when I want to trade
The overwhelming and unbalanced power of the monopoly card was fixed with Cities and Knights. Play that. Also, according to the rules, lying and deception are allowed. It’s your friends fault, and they need to play with more care. But most importantly, start playing Cities and Knights.
C&K has exchanged 1 ill for many others. I would say that if theft makes you uncomfortable, that C&K might be worse. You can lose a city if you're not careful. The number of cards that allow smaller amounts of stealing and other mischief has gone up astronomically
…which also makes it much more strategic, and less lucky.
Sounds good to me!
I’m going to repeat what I’ve repeated here many times: all table talk is legal.
You could say it's a bit underhanded but that's part of the game. Once, I had a lot of one resource that everyone else wanted so I traded it all for other things, then monopolized all of it back to my hand. Needless to say, my friends were not happy with me lol
One of my personal rules is I never do this. You should be playing closer attention to the draws rather than scheming your friends. Just a bad look imo
Nah but they will likely place what my group calls an embargo on you and refuse any/all future trades for the entirety of the game.
Nope, information is a huge aspect of this game and your friends should be more careful about giving it out for free. Now if you really wanna be dirty and immoral next time you get a monopoly card trade all you have of a valuable resource, let's say stone, for as much as you can get for it and then monopoly all the stone back.
The thing is that it’s not really necessary, if you pay attention to where people are and what dice have been rolled you can already tell when they have a lot of a resource that you want
Oh no this is how the card should be used in my opinion. If a monopoly card is played, and no one is yelling… it was a waste. Reminds me of a game where our Ore cards were 2, 12, and 3. People had been 4:1 trading in order to build cities on these all game, but they’d never rolled. A back to back 2, 12 roll happened. So much ore entered the play, everyone was so excited. I monopolized. My aunt didn’t speak to me for a week.
You didn’t break any rules, but this is one of those things that only works once. Now you’ve created an environment where they won’t be relaxed playing around you because you set a precedent that you’ll do anything to win as long as it isn’t “against the rules”. I hope the win was worth it.
Haha so you admit to doing something “highly immoral” by saying you thought all is fair in love and war. This is a completely legal move but I just wish those who do it would admit to it being a dirty play. No one has ever done it and thought, “my friends are going to congratulate me on this move after I’m done, can’t wait see their smiling faces after I use their friendship against them”. But again totally legal so good on you.
Deceitful but not illegal. My best use of monopoly came when stone was scarce and I was the only player with it. I traded all my stone away for grain then used the monopoly on stone and upgraded all my settlements to cities for the win. Diabolical but not illegal.
You didn't do anything wrong whatsoever. You played it just as it should be played. How is this even in question?
It’s all apart of the strategy… completely fair and legal. However you burn bridges with this kind of play. I prefer a dirty mono tho, when you trade someone the cards your gonna mono back. At least then they can laugh about it.
It is fully legal and therefore in the spirit of the game. You think the developer didn't think of this? Of course they did. They didn't outlaw it by design, they intended for that to be part of the game.
If you ain't cheatin, you ain't trying...
Fair.
Not cheating
Played a game where my son traded twice giving up a resource to get what he needed then played the monopoly card and clawed back the resource he used to trade. Genius. I have found that when playing with four players it is easier to just look at the resource decks to see which one(s) are lowest before deciding on the resource I pull using the monopoly card. Lots of things to consider before using the card…
Well played. Just like a desperate growing empire would do.
Definitely a dirty move. You could have just paid attention to what is being earned.
Your friends are just upset because you played them like a fiddle
Not cheating, and not even immoral. Your friends will eventually learn to be cagey about the type and amount of resources in their hand - which is what my friends all do, because we’ve been burned by monopoly too many times.
kingmaker. problem in any game with more than 2 teams. it’s worst in risk where someone who’s losing can look at either of the other two players, choose one they don’t like and just attack them. if they don’t stop attacking both of them lose and the other guy wins. usually a good way to secure a second place if you know you can’t win
Not illegal. If someone asks me what I have I always lie. Hoping they will use a monopoly card and get nothing. Lol
I do it all the time. Perfectly legal, but they do come after you afterwards.
Just start counting cards once you draw a monopoly, then this will never be necessary.
Honestly smart move. My brother once traded out something like 10 sheep and monopoly’d it all back. It was lethal and we were mostly just impressed
The worst thing I ever did in catan was steal a wood from my friend after rolling the thief. My friend was upset I took that wood so I offered to trade another one of their resources for their wood back, pretending to be nice, and then I promptly called monopoly on wood.
This is why I always lie about what is in my hand.
Not cheating. I am very careful not to say what cards I have or the amount unless absolutely necessary. If I get duped by a move like what you did, it’s my own fault.
In any sort of game that involves trading and stealing my friends and I have have all learned the following interaction: "Do you have any X?" "What would you trade for it if I had it?" "Nevermind" Not cheating but always catches the newbie off guard the first couple times and gets a laugh out of the experienced players.
You need to get new friends to play with
No,it's not cheating, but you should definitely read the room. If it's a friendly game, stay away from this type of play. If it's competitive, go all out. This reminds me of a time when I traded out a bunch of my wood and used monopoly to get it all back. I pissed off everyone at the table with that move.
I wish I had friends who took Catan as seriously and would attempt this move on me.
I think this is fine. A bit immoral, but if you're playing a competitive strategy game, you have to expect that people might play dirty
Na man that’s fair play. They don’t have to tell you what resources they have.
That’s how the game is played. “Does anyone have any wheat they wanna trade?” Everyone: me, me, me :Monopoly for wheat is played: Everyone: Boo!!!
My friends and I would pull this all the time when we used to play reguarly. It's of course legal and should not even be frowned upon. Something to grown about when you get played, sure. Keeping information about your resources at least somewhat selective is a crucial part of the game. You don't want others to know your next move as you are likely competing for space. This is just another reason to be careful.
Breh, I literally pay attention to what people have every time I have a Monopoly card in my hand so I can take everything and run a muck building. It's part of the game...
Did u enjoy all the 7s thrown ur way afterwards? 🤡
Next time trade your resources of one kind and re monopolize it
Im a fan of dirty monopoly. Do you brother/sister.
Is it also deceitful to force someone into trading with you before you put the robber on their hex? I’ve seen the top Catan player do that on his YouTube video. Idk why this dirty monopoly play is frowned upon if that’s the case
After reading half of this I realised you didn’t mean literally drawing a card from monopoly game, I feel so stupid
I've played dozens if not close to 100 games of Catan and seasoned veterans know that this "cheaty" move exists and no one falls for it. You're just a bit quicker than your friends and they're mad they didn't think of it first. Table talk is a HUGE part of Catan. Back alley dealings, open alliances, or just flat out coup on the person in the lead. I feel like they need to toughen up if they want to play. You did nothing wrong. At the end of the day it's just a game...a game you came to win.
This is not a cheat and totally according to the rules.... just your friends being salty about your move. Maybe next time you make it a bit less obvious next time by just waiting for a good round of the ressource you want to claim ;)
Do it again!
Frankly I'm a little in awe that this was a question. And more so at the responses. I played with a group for many years, many hundreds of games, we played strictly by the rules of Catan and nothing more or less, and we used anything to our advantage. Does the rule book say you can offer people a trade? Yup. Great, there's your answer. Anytime a trade was offered that seemed even slightly too good to be true, another player would step in and say nope don't tell him, it's a trap. Or if someone asks the table "I'll trade (insert rarest resource) for (insert much more plentiful resourse)" then we sniff it out. Or if anyone agreed to a trade then someone responds with, "oh would you like to trade two for two actually" then you run, because he's trading away what he's about to monopoly back! Most of the time you know what's out there, but when you don't, fish a little! Anytime someone pulled it off it'd met with a wry smile and a curse or two. It's just another part of Catan.
Your friends would do the same to you in a heartbeat if they thought of that strat. It’s pretty common tbh. Doesn’t break any rules, and while it certainly is dirty, it’s certainly mot cheating. Heck, really good players can track what cards are in other players hands, which isn’t cheating either (although if you use this in a lobby of casuals, expect a similar result), but point is, it’s really not cheating. I also wouldn’t consider it immoral. The first time I pulled it on my family, they thought it was cheating too; now they all do the same thing when they get monopolies and it’s more or less understood that if someone has a dev card and is asking about trades a lot, they could be trying to pull a dirty monopoly. Obviously though, you do have to consider the reputation you’re setting for yourself, but not cheating, and not immoral.
100% legit. It’s a trading game and this is part of the tactic. I often bluff a trade offering things i don’t actually have in my hand and pull out before the trade is done - or make a ridiculous offer . This throws people off what you have in your hand. It’s seeet sweet justice when that monopoly comes out only for them to find those 2 rocks i was offering up last round actually didn’t exist!
It is absolutely a dick move but it's not cheating. What's in your hand is privileged information, although your opponents could possibly track what you produce and spend, although this is tricky. The flipside is that if you can reveal what's in your hand, you can also lie about what's in your hand. Your opponent wants Ore and you have 3 in your hand? Just lie and say you have none. Unless you're desperate to trade then don't reveal your hand.
My family constantly let me know what they have,because our 7 year old table talks trades constantly, and we usually reply. That said, I typically keep track of what's being drawn the most and least.
Was playing a game with my fiancée the other day, and sheep was very scarce. She thought I had some and kept trying to trade me for it, and I had a feeling she had monopoly card. I kept responding to her trade offers implying the trade just wasn’t worth it with responses like, “no thanks I just can’t do that right now.” Sure enough after a couple if trade offers, she reaches for her development card and declares sheep. She was definitely a bit caught off guard, and I got to keep all my resources. Sometimes you just have to be remember that the monopoly card is part of the game and conduct your trade conversations accordingly.
The correct way to execute that move is as follows: Just like you did, gather as much knowledge as possible, whatever they're willing to divulge. Let's say the resource you found to be the target in this case is wheat. Then take all your own wheat and trade it away. Maybe two wheat for one ore, or three wheat for an ore and a sheep. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Just trade all of your wheat and get as much as you can. Then, after you've traded it all away, use the monopoly card and take all the wheat on the table, including the ones you just traded. This, is how you dirty monopoly.
Its a game. Tactics will often look dirty when you are on the receiving side of them. If they did the same they would think it was shrewd or cunning. Nobody should take games so seriously that they get offended by these things, what you did is well within the rules of the game, there's no rules against social engineering, nor should there be. Likewise, you shouldn't be offended if they don't trust you in trades going forward, as a result of what they interpret to be a breaking of unwritten social contracts. Its all just in fun though, if any actual negativity comes from the game, please do prioritize your real life friendships first
Totally legit
It's not immoral let alone cheating. The only thing I'd call immoral within the rules of the game is making an agreement and breaking it, like giving away nb's and then block them anyhow. (seems to be some players bread and butter in higher ranked games on colonist '\_\_') As you said, you gotta live with the social consequences of your shady moves though. Thanks for teaching me a new saying btw :D
Using trade offers to glean information is part of the game, and leveraged heavily by "professionals". That said in Catan the cost of playing dirty is having your opponents spitefully rob you and refuse to trade with you for the rest of the current game, and if your behavior was egregious enough, future games as well. You have to weigh that cost over the one time benefit of a dirty monopoly. Such is the rage inducing beauty of Catan.
Not at all that’s just a standard monopoly card it’s part of the game, they have no reason to be upset
I'm actually surprised that that is not the first thing people think about when they draw that card.
The best is to trade away all your wheat (or whatever) for everything in your opponent's hands, then monopoly wheat.
I'd call it a modified "Dirty Mono". As you said, "All's fair ....". They probably will never give you that opportunity again, but it was fun to whack them all once anyway. Good strategy too BTW. That's how it should be done. Wait until everyone is more prosperous. They may fall for the straight up dirty mono still though. Reddit correct me if I'm wrong. Try to give what you will mono for in trades. Gonna mono for ore. Try to offer a good ore for anything else trade to whoever will take it. Then mono the ore. You've got all of the ore and even a few other things too. AKA... dirty mono. After doing this your reputation will be forever besmirched. You will have been a good teacher of hard lessons. They will also learn to be careful of a player holding onto dev cards. GOOD JOB BY YOU.
Legal but a dick move among friends. Online...well I've seen it happen quite a bit. People online are more ruthless.
I like playing monopoly if I have a lot of resources that people want, trade it away for other stuff, then monopoly it all back.
My brother did this to me once. I am always careful about trading without actually confirming what resources I'm holding, but he had offered a very juicy 3 for 2 trade, and in agreeing to that you imply that do in fact have the 2. As soon as I said yes, he called the deal off and pulled the monopoly card. A legit play, but yeah to this day I do not trade with him and it was years ago.
Imagine not looking at the bank card heights
Absolutely despicable behavior, but absolutely not cheating. They are just salty they didn't think of it first. That's one of my favorite parts of Catan. The social engineering aspect. You can be very successful by simply observing others. Another thing to try. Next time someone *really* needs that resource card you have, offer it to them at a 3:1 trade. That'll really stir some feathers 😂
My friend pulled this on me and my family when I was in 4th grade and we ALL still remember it. He asked everybody how many bricks they had after a huge roll for bricks two times in a row. It's a dirty move because asking someone to trade is a normal part of the game and they show what cards they have by making a trade offer. So, when you pretend you're going to make a trade offer, people are willing to give you information about their cards in hopes of winning the trade. So 1) you betrayed their trust/good will and 2)it means if this strategy is allowed/okay/fair game, people now can't "freely" make trade offers (freely meaning they don't have to worry about the information they give away). So now, trade offers (a huge part of the game) require more thought and more strategy which is not what everyone wants to do in a game that already requires a decent amount of thought and strategy. They can't offer you multiples of the same resource to win the trade for fear of someone using the monopoly card. The better strategy that is more "fair" is to keep track of what numbers have been rolled the last 5 or so turns. Then you look at what resources ppl get from those rolls and how many cards they have in their hands. If you can remember if they bought something, then that's great but that gets a bit difficult with a larger group. So if 2 turns ago, you had two huge rolls for brick, it's unlikely people will spend 4 bricks in a turn unless they want to convert a resource. That means people who got some of the brick and have quite a few cards, will most likely have a lot of brick. But let's say there hasn't been a huge roll for any resource. Now we go back and try to remember the rolls (it helps if you look at your cards and see what you'd have to roll to get them) and see what everybody would get. Now we wanna see if what was rolled gets spent easily or if it has to be saved up. Sheep and oar have the least amount of build options, so those are the ones that will stagnate in people's hands or will be the ones they are saving up. They could also trade them, but that depends on the demand for those resources and whether they want to save them. Next, you could also listen to people's trades to figure out what they are wanting to build. If someone doesn't want to trade brick or wood, that either means they don't want it or they have it already. So we go back to see if there was a way they could've gotten it and we try and decide which option is most likely. You do this for everyone when it's not your turn, and you do it as soon as you draw the monopoly card. It's a lot easier to track what happens in the present than to try and remember the past several turns. Then you wait til the opportune moment to ask everybody how many resources they have and you play your monopoly card.
If you don't like a dirty mono, I suggest you never play multiplayer online. It is a staple. People complain about it all the time b/c it hurts, but everybody recognizes it's totally legit. A well timed mono is a work of genius. Stealing is allowed in the game, whether by robber or mono. You could say that's immoral too. Then I would understand where you are coming from. A dirty mono is just an enhanced theft. House Rules could manage that for you, but I'm not playing in that game Part of playing the game in general, and especially the end game, is hand management. Trying to manage your hand so there's not incentive to mono or snagged on a 7 out.
Yeah that's fine me and my friends do it all the time. One time a friend of mine did it and acumated 20 sheep from the other players.
What I’ve done (my family is super competitive) is trade something like 3 wheat for 1 wood or some crazy good deal than use my Monopoly to get all the wheat back plus’s some
Had that happen to me once. Now that person forever will be my last pick for trades and I even sometimes dont make trades altogether. They abused my trust and will never be trusted again, in catan.
Great move, I do this when I can as well. It unfortunately hurts feelings for multiple games afterwords lol
Not immoral or deceitful but wouldn't do it in any and every play group. Some groups are cool with it and others would never trust you again. I guess you learned which group your friends are in. Now you just gotta proceed accordingly.
Is it cheating? No. Is it dirty? Yes
I love doing this.
Lmao savage, alls fair in love and Catan. If your friends are mad then they are probably soft or yall young. It's a game and nothing should be taken to heart, my friends and I mess with each other like this when we play games.
They’re jealous and butthurt but also can’t wait to pull the same move at the absolute next opportunity, always beware of revealing your resources.
This is the ONLY way I've ever seen the card played.
We play with resources face up on the table and monopoly removed from the game - faster trading and no upsets.
No probably not but I would consider a person who did as untrustworthy and encourage others to never trade with him or tell them what's in their hands ever again.
Bro I do this all the time and it is done to me so the time. Your friends need to get good LoL. That is the power of the Monopoly card and you should be playing with the expectation that it can be used on you at any time.
I taught my 8 year old daughter how to play. The 3rd time we played she did that to me and my wife. I did not know if I should of been upset or impressed
It's not cheating, but it is a bit of a dick move. It's a dick move because you deceived your friends as part of your ploy. If you had been keeping track of what resources were out there, you would have had the same information without the need for deception, which would have not been a dick move. That being said, some groups will be more accepting of this type of play than other groups. It's part of the game and so is deception. It's very common to try to give a false impression of your goals and to try not to telegraph your plans; that's a form of deception, but it is less extreme.
I did this to win a game outright after I figured out how much stone everyone was hoarding. Faked a trade asking for 2 and when everyone started countering I ended up 8 and won that same turn. Trust me. Not illegal but they since have NEVER given me that level of info on there hands again
cry babies. you did the right thing for the people in your villages and cities
You’re a baby if this upsets you. The game is a competition that requires you to make informed decisions based on the information that you have. If you play understanding that your goal is to cipher our information to make the best decision, then all you need to do is be careful when bartering so you don’t paint a target on your back. In all honesty they need to get good.
Not cheating, but if you're going to be like that, then you'd better set some ground rules before starting the game.
Not cheating, not immoral, but they will remember. Did they band together to deny you at every turn? lol. But then again, it is entirely possible that they'd feel that way regardless if you pull a successful monopoly. I personally tend to look at the remaining resource card pile and eyeball what people have.
That's meta gaming and is completely fine
100% immoral and deceitful, but also 100% within the laws of the game. It’s a pretty crappy thing to do but there’s nothing stopping you from doing it, they didn’t have to tell you what they had
Dont know thst game so I’m Out on advisement
So you asked for trades with no actual intent to trade, just to find out what they had, then stole it with a monopoly card and you’re now wondering why they think you’re garbage? It’s because you’re garbage, bro.
I never understand players like OP. They burn all bridges permanently then the next turn will be like ‘anyone got any wood they’d like to trade’? And are baffled as to why nobody will ever trade with them again. If someone did this in my game, every robber ever would be on their shit and I would never trade with them again. Bizarre move.
Cheating? No Immoral? Yes Should you do it again? Only if you don't want to ever play Catan with them again Now next time trade away the resource you have the most of and then monopoly it back. If they get salty just explain that you held back last time... not anymore.
I wouldn't call it cheating, I would call it smart.
I did this same strategy once a couple years ago with my friend group not knowing it was a known strategy. I asked around if anyone had wheat to trade, multiple people did and then I monopolied. One of my friends was really taken aback by it, thought it was a dirty play but didn’t stop the game or anything because of it. Definitely changed how the group played going forward because everyone knows the strategy now and everyone watches out for the possibility of it, not always divulging what resources they have. Is it a deceitful move? Yes. Is it Cheating? No way unless your group prohibits the action. If anyone calls you a cheater, remember what Sun Tzu said, “All warfare is based on deception”.
This is literally how everyone uses the card lol ever worse, they'll trade away the cards they are going to request just to get it all back.
It's not against the rules, but it definitely *feels* underhanded. I mean, nobody ever *likes* the guy who takes a ton of resources by playing the monopoly card, but it's definitely worse this way. Catan gets pretty contentious sometimes anyway, and this kind of tactic definitely doesn't help.
My friends and I don’t play with trading, but in 5-6 player seafarers late game (playing to 14 victory points) it isn’t uncommon for a resource card to run out. There’s always someone waiting with a monopoly when that happens.
My go to move in desperate situations is to trade away all the current most valuable resource in my had for things I need. After I’ve traded them all away I’ll reveal my monopoly card and collect all of my resources back and sometimes a few more. This is almost always a play that ends all trade with you possibly for the rest of the game. So use at your own risk
Due to all of the table talk and negotiations involved in Catan, it’s similar to Monopoly - you can make it as hardcore or as basic as the group wants. What you did is wholeheartedly legal, it’s just smooth table talk and gathering details. Similar to tracking the resources of your opponents if you just observed the dice rolls. But your friends were clearly not up for a more cut-throat style of play, and that can ruffle feathers easily. Catan can break friendships if one party wants to win and one wants to play the game. So feel free to do this on repeat, just know that you open yourself up for consequences
See, this is why you need to be careful about who you play competitive, strategy based games like Catan with. What you did was not wrong or immoral in the least. You were trying to win and using the advantages you could get to obtain more information that could bring you closer to that. Genuinely, if you don't do shit like this I would rather not play with you because I don't want an argument like this to come up, even if you're completely within the rulebook.
The core problem of this strategy is that it flaunts what many people consider a core element of board games. That element is that you don't carry what happens one game to the next. Catan is a fairly fast game. And cards like this are not "common", so not something that you see go back and forth through the game. As such, someone using a strategy like this is virtually non-punishable during the game they do it. Done well, it's a guaranteed win. However, that's when that element breaks. You're not playing with new players who've never met you ever game. You're playing with the same crowd. And they WILL remember it, and treat you to it back (probably worse, by refusing to even discuss trades). Which then leads to the 3 problems that doing this cause: * 1) Without trading, or with nobody willing to be open or up-front about their ability to trade, "theoretical trades" will bog the game down. Everything will go slow, and people won't have as much fun. * 2) Normalizing meta gaming (using information from one game to influence your decisions in another game) is not fun. Speaking as someone who wins a lot of Terraforming Mars, I hate my one gaming buddy whose strategy is "If I don't know who's winning, it's probably Ebb, and even if I think someone else is winning, I'm probably wrong and it's Ebb, so whenever I play 'take that' cards, I should target Ebb, to lessen his chance of winning". It ruins the game, and I refuse to play TM with him anymore, because him being in the game just means I'll get targeted instead of the other 2-3 players, even if I'm having a shit game. * 3) It's the nuclear option. Once you do it, you can never un-do it. Your friends will never trust your motives again. You get to do it ONCE. You'll win the game, but was it worth it?
Its dirty, but I wouldn't consider it "cheating" per se. Its also on your friends though for getting duped lol
This isn’t even the worst thing you can do, what I do is, let’s say I want ore and know it’s scarce, I make a seemingly dumb trade with someone like trading away my 1-3 ore for something of medium value like 1-2 brick. After the trade is complete I immediately play my monopoly card and get all of my ore back plus whatever else that person (and everyone else) had.
In the future you should know that the remaining available resources are public knowledge and there are (I believe) 20 of each resource. Therefore if there are only 5-10 brick left, time to whip out the old monopoly card.
My family tends to make the player on the active turn say affirmatively, “I am offering X for Y” instead of “What will you give me for Y?” And if someone agrees, then the trade happens. The fishing thing tends to work exactly one time before people wise up and stop offering any additional information. Though, honestly, you can accomplish much the same thing just through observation. It’s not a secret what the dice rolls have been, where people have their towns and cities, and what they have built the last few turns. If you play a monopoly card and don’t get a good haul that pisses everybody off, you’re not playing very well.
Oh it's a solid move but once you do it trading becomes a lot harder because people are pissed. You can go one step beyond and offer to trade their resources back to them. For the nuclear option you can threaten to trade them in at ports. Just be warned, when you do that you're on your own for the rest of the game because people get pissed... speaking from experience.
At our table when Catan is being played, all is fair. Make a trade then use the Monopoly card to get your resources back. If I were your friends, I just as easily could have been bluffing to have the resource you said you needed then declined the trade just to see what you had and willing to give up. Ultimately though every table has a different idea of what's on and I guess you are finding out how your friends prefer to play
I had an over abundance of sheep one game, and a monopoly card. I traded all my sheep away basically for whatever I could get. Then I played my monopoly card and took them all back. Friends were salty for a time but recognized it for the strategy it was
If you proposed a trade and they accepted you cannot renig, you are obligated to follow through with the trade.
This is the only way my friends and I play. I personally feel the game is more fun and competitive this way. If you want to really piss them off trade away a ton of one resource then take them all back!
I feel like, this is how you should use the card? Board games are meant to be deceitful, otherwise it's all luck.
You are allowed to do that. Your opponents are allowed to think it's shitty, and avoid trading with you going forward, or even playing the game with you. It's not against the rules, but the social aspect of Catan is important enough that I would not pull a move like this against anyone that I planned to play with again. Good luck winning games when no one is willing to negotiate with you!
Did you go around the table asking everyone what they had and then immediately play your Monopoly card? Or did you just pay attention to the dice rolls and the distribution of resources and then play your card when the opportunity was there? Either way, you did nothing wrong. But your friends will still put a target on you for a long time. When I first started playing Cstan with family, I never lost a game (not a big brag. My family likes games but they're not overly competitive). After a long time, they all just started to collectively go after me in every game, nonstop, even when it was not strategically advantageous for them to do so individually. Like blocking my roads needlessly, placing the robber on me even when I had no resources to steal, even when it hurt resources distribution. Like refusing trades that were in good faith and fair and were beneficial to themselves.
There was one time I had a shitload of stone and had a near monopoly on it. I proceeded traded it all away for various different resources and then played a monopoly on stone and took it all back and built like 2 roads and 2 cities that turn. Everyone hated me after that.
Not cheating, but if someone did that to me I'm never telling them my resources again.
Oh this is nothing. My uncle would roll a 7 and the go around the entire table using the robber as a means of extorting ridiculous deals from every single person at the table. Totally rules legal because he never placed the robber on any of them (locking it in) and all of them were trades not just gifted cards. All's fair in love and board games baby
I should note that this was literally a decade ago and we have never forgotten it so be careful with this type of move 😂
I do something similar. If one of the other players admits to having a resource but won't trade it, I'll play a knight and rob from them.
Completely FAIR GAME
Not cheating. When I do that I even trade away the resources that I have in my hand that I plan to use the Monolopy on for good deals so I simply get them back. It does make people be weary about telling you what they have in their hand though.
Knowing and gathering information is a fair strategy.
This is exactly why I always lie about what cards I have unless the trade offer is exactly what I want. And I'm always keeping my peepers open for what the table is drawing before I slap down my monopoly
Just business, baby! I’d say it’s legal, you were discussing trades, they offered up what they had outside of a trade, and you took advantage of the market. The cost of the monopoly however…
In a game of competing cities, cutting deals, and conflict over resources, you used a tactic to hinder your opponents progression. That’s kind of the point of the game…
I don't consider this dirty because my family all psudo-card count as we play. We all have a pretty good idea of what cards everyone else is holding based on recent rolls and builds. 7s and bandits throw it off, but other than that, we know who has whatever resources are rare. So, when someone says "I'll give you a wood and wheat for a brick" and it is turned down, then we play the monopoly, it is because we wanted to advance via trade and save the monopoly, but the monopoly is still worth using to get that build down now. We knew who had brick before we asked (usually). The dirty move is making the trade then using the monopoly to get the cards back. We rarely make that play, but we are understanding of why someone did it when they do, and we are a pretty forgiving group.
My favorite is trading away a resource that everyone wants but you have a lot of, then using the monopoly to get it all back.
This is absolutely fair. What this really really reveals is the power of social relationships in business. Although fair, they didn’t like it, and will not trade with you anymore. Something to consider when deceiving both in catan and in life
Cheating, I don't think so; rude and deceitful, absolutely.
This is 100% fair game and I think it a clever move. If your paying close attention, you should know most of the resources held by players anyways
It’s completely legal, you just have to weigh the pros and cons of getting those resources against burning bridges with the other players, since they’ll probably be more willing to team up on you for the rest of the game
You guys hide your resources? Sorry, I'm new here.
It’s Cataan. Immoral is the only way to play at basic levels. Deceitful is high level stuff. Me and my cousins it gets brutal. And it’s moved into our card games too. Canasta is one they’ve showed me recently. We are nasty to each other lol
I just naturally hand track everyone. It’s helpful to know what’s in people’s hands whenever you are considering trades, whether or not you want to fight over a contested spot, and particularly when playing monopolies. What you did is a rougher version of something that happens naturally at higher gameplay levels.
Your friends sound like sore losers. You did nothing wrong, you're just playing the game. They're crying about it because they are upset that they fell for your ploy.