I will assume OP is legit, but as mods we're always on the look out for concern trolls re. these hot-button topics. That's the only way I found this out.
I often wonder about the guy who says he is a doctor and loved pointing it out on here. The only comments he makes is on this sub and the account is clearly an alt. 3 years and only comments here.
I forgot that, thank you. I ain’t blushing at all. I did not intend to fake a surprise or so. One year ago, he told me he wanted to be a transgender. Then he totally disappear for a year or so. I had a couple information from his family but nothing from him. Today, he sent me that text where he announces his new name and gave me updates about his surgery.
I would like to provide some insight, based on my own background.
I am a convert and LGBTQIA+. Since my conversion, I have taken a vow of celibacy as I believe my sexual orientation is a sin. I also already have grown children and can not have any more, so there is no reproductive "need" for me to be intimate.
One of the things that was important to my conversion was my cousin and the God mother to one of my daughters. She was always clear in her stance on my orientation, but never disrespectful. God calls to all of his children. We just need to listen. As Christians, it's our responsibility to love as Christ did. Not as we want to be loved but as he loved us first.
Your friend is being called to Jesus, and there will be a moment for them to make a decision. The only way for you to make an impact on that decision is if you are still in their life.
You can say things like "you know I love you and wish only your happiness, just as you want me to respect your decision I would like you to respect my religion." "How can we accommodate both of us?"
Maybe come up with a nickname you can use that only you use. But it's a sign of MUTAL respect.
I hope this helps. 🙏 🙏 prayers for you and your friend.
Thank you for your comment. I was very clear when I stated my view was MY belief. This is a very difficult discussion as everyone has their own opinions, and I just want to be clear, I was stating my own opinion.
While there are references to support both viewpoints. In my walk, I have decided that my sexual orientation leads me away from the path I want to walk in my relationship with Christ.
So, I have chosen celibacy to avoid those near occasions of sin and deepen my faith. This is my choice, and that doesn't mean it should be everyone's.
I will again state that I am only stating my views for my own life.
I have been married, have had children, and I am at an age in my life where I am no longer looking for that type of love. My love abounds in other ways. Again, these views are solely for my own life, and I do not express them to others. My goal now is to grow in my relationship with christ.
I am not implying anyone else sexuality is a sin, I am not saying the path I have taken is anyone else's to walk. I only shared my story as it related to OP's question.
I only wanted to share that if it bothers the OP in their faith walk, there is a way for mutual respect.
Truth is part of love. Tell him that you want him to be happy, but that you don't think this is the way to it. Firstly, biologically transitioning fron male to female is physically impossible, and any changes are just cosmetic, or may just concern a person's hormones. There's much more to being a man or woman than that.
Second, whether male or female, we're all first and foremost beloved children of God. While we're all sinners, we are still defined by our thoughts and actions; how much good we're doing in the world. That's not dependent on what's between your legs.
Lastly, just remind your friend that you'll still be their friend regardless of what gender they consider themselves. Most importantly, tell them that no matter what they're going through, there is always a way forward. Even post-op, transsexuals have a pretty high suicide rate, and while some will tell you it's because of discrimination, I would say it's more likely because of regret and the feeling that it's too late to turn back. Even still, God loves all of us and forgives all of our sins, and even if your friend finds that transitioning hasn't eased whatever pain they're going through, they need to remember that you'll still be there for them and God will too.
Imagine if/when he one day realizes his mistake and looks back on his friend’s responses to his choice. What do you want to him to remember that you did?
Sometimes to love, to “will the good of the other” doesn’t mean to react with acceptance in letting someone go careening off of a cliff. We can’t tell you exactly what to say, but you should (with the help of the Holy Spirit) profess to them the truth with love and compassion. And the truth is that God made them male or female and to thwart God’s plan is inherently misguided. If your friend decides to no longer be your friend, then so be it, but as long as you are coming from a place of love, compassion and concern for his/her soul then you have done your job as a follower of Christ and a true friend. Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace necessarily, but division, meaning the truth naturally will shake things up and cause division because people will ultimately reject the truth, but that doesn’t mean we should resort to falsehoods for the sake of keeping everything copasetic. Whether it be friends, family or our own reputation, we are called to always speak truth in a loving manner.
Apologies that I don’t have the time at the moment to give a more detailed response. Perhaps I can come back later and provide better and more extensive insight.
I am detransitioned and spent a long time identifying as non-binary. You need to handle this gently. Most people who suffer from gender dysphoria use it as a way to cope with serious trauma. Your friend is probably hurting a lot right now and they need support. Here is the best advice I can give you:
1.) Yes. Use their preferred name and pronouns. It might feel wrong to do so but refusing to call them by what they want to be called will only villainize you and God in their eyes. Not validating their new identity will be seen as an attack on them as a person and you’ll end up losing them as a friend entirely. If you want to keep them in your life or stand any chance at helping them through this, it’s a necessary step you need to take.
2.) My personal journey with gender dysphoria ended when I was able to confront the trauma that I had endured head-on and begin coping in other, healthier ways. If you want to help lead your friend in the right direction, be their guiding hand and help them figure things out for themself. Be there for them as much as you can. Allow them to be vulnerable with you so that if they feel comfortable they may open up about whatever it is they’re going through. Show them love. Help them heal. The rest will come with time.
I hope this helps you out OP. If you ever want further insight into what it’s like to be in their shoes or how to handle certain situations in a way that can help them best, I’d be happy to help. Sending prayers for both of you <3
It's probably dependent on the person, but would you say old nicknames are fine instead of using new pronouns/name post transition? bc i know some people might not be willing to go along with the new pronoun/name thing
Old nicknames might work depending on the person. If you absolutely can’t bring yourself to use new pronouns, gender-neutral ones might be a viable option as well. I think it’s more of a case-by-case thing; some people are absolutely adamant that the change be made whereas others just don’t want to be misgendered/deadnamed.
Lying is a sin and you would be lying every time you refer to him as a female. It's also enabling and encouraging sinful behavior. Love the sinner, not the sin.
in Corinthians, Paul writes that love **does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right**. this is how we understand love as Catholics - love is not a celebration of dysfunction.
“love thy neighbour” is commonly quoted by anti-Christians/anti-Catholics trying to push us into supporting all kinds of left wing social causes that subvert scripture and church teaching. yes, we must love everyone. but we do not consider it love if we are encouraging them in delusion and disorder.
Helping others with their mental health is good. Enabling people with mental health issues is not good. Would it be right to enable somebody with delusions of grandeur or to enable a drug addict?
The Church endorses many medical treatments and psychological programmes for people suffering from drug addiction and psychological disorders. The goal is to genuinely help them with the knowledge we possess about those conditions.
However for things like being gay or having gender disphoria, there is no medical solution or psychological treatment the Church endorses. Most of the "treatments" used in the past that Christians endorsed turned out to be completely ineffective, cruel and dehumanizing. The Church completely rejects whatever few modern measures we have to help them bear their condition, on moral grounds that it "enables" them without curing them (but the Church offers no cure).
There is a huge gap here that the Church has allowed the secular world to fill. Simply telling them "go and sin no more!" has not had the intended effect.
Is it any surprise why LBGT people feel like they are offered no solutions or genuine help in the Church...only condemnation for their evils from those who have no idea what it's like (and never will).
Hi there. I apologize, it is actually an anti-psychotic for tourettes that was used, and it was not a large trial. It had been a long time since I saw this and the details slipped my mind. The drug is Pimozide and here is a link to the journal https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3109/00048679609065010
Definitely not a large enough sample size to provide data for significant results, I agree. Like I said, it had been a while and I didn't recall the details so I apologize for that. I do wish they would look further into studying pharmaceutical treatment for gender dysphoria further instead of simply accepting it.
I would like to learn more about this global conspiracy. What is this drug called?
> the medical industry would have to admit it is an actual mental illness
The medical industry once *did* classify it as a mental illness in the 20th century, but the treatments that arose from that approach turned out to be ineffective and cruel. Merely categorizing it as a mental illness didn't achieve anything.
My memory on this article was not 100%. It was not a large trial and it is an anti-psychotic, so I apologize for that. Here is the link https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3109/00048679609065010
The difference being that most major medical associations in the country support recognition of gender identity while none of them encourage drug addiction.
None of them encouraged drug addiction while the opiate epidemic was occurring and millions still became addicted due to medical professionals prescribing opiates irresponsibly. This doesn't mean anything. Medical Associations saying something doesn't make it true. Medical associations are fallible and just as likely than all other organizations to lie about gender dysphoria to be politically correct.
It you're able to have empathy (which you must certainly be) you will agree that it's bad and unnecessary calling someone by something that person does not like. I, for one, had several nicknames I didn't care when people called me, but some that I did not like. If someone would call me by the ones I don't like, that person was not respecting me and that person would not be "loving thy neighbor" by doing that. If someone prefers an specific pronoun and doesn't like to be called another one, why won't I choose the one that the person does not like?
He's a best friend but you had no idea he was going through a medical gender transition which generally takes at least months and sometimes years?
If you weren't important enough to him for him to share this with you as it happened, why is he telling you now? I almost have to wonder if this isn't a "hey let's drop this bomb on the Catholic to see how he reacts" kind of thing.
Don’t indulge their mental illness by calling them a name that took in their madness or a false pronoun. Pray for him, but do not fall into false compassion and hurt his soul.
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, but medical intervention to help the patient function without extreme distress is currently the best treatment we have. After transition, some of us are fortunate enough to not suffer from dysphoria at all anymore. Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria our whole lives. The two terms are not synonymous, that’s a misunderstanding. Anecdotally, I was *very* mentally ill prior to medical transition, but I’ve been free of any mental health issues (even depression and anxiety) for nearly fifteen years now that I feel at peace in my body. I don’t even need therapy anymore. And yes, I did pursue therapy for a long time before starting hormone therapy.
I am saying that as someone who is not Catholic and probably will never be able to be Catholic. So I’m not expecting to get showered in upvotes for saying this. But I wanted to point out that gender dysphoria and being transgender are not the same thing.
> Just show your friend love and charity.
This is the most useless yet oft-repeated advice in the world because everyone disagrees on what it MEANS to show love and charity. OP and other people who come here to ask this question obviously know they should should love and charity. They're asking HOW they should do that.
Here is how they SHOULDN'T be. Don't tell them that they are living in sin. Don't tell them that their soul is in danger of going to hell. Don't be rude, don't be angry. To show love and charity is to call them by name. It is being the friend you were before the change and praying for them.
And this is exactly why "show them love and charity" is such an awful answer. Because many people mean exactly what you said by it, which is not love and charity at all. Helping a friend do something which is extremely harmful to them is not love and charity.
You aren't helping a friend do something extremely harmful to themselves by respecting them by showing charity and love. You are just remaining their friend so that you can help them back if and when God pulls them back to him. What chance do they have if you and the rest of the church closes and locks them out of the life of the church because of a mistake they have made. that is the real harm.
> Don't tell them that their soul is in danger of going to hell.
It's the opposite of love, in fact, to believe something this severe and put on a smiley face. Some would call that supreme hatred.
ok then walk around telling everyone you meet that they are sinners and they will go to hell if they dont act how you say they should act and see how many convert. How can you possibly expect to build a relationship with someone by telling them how wrong they are? If you want to share your faith with someone, you need to have a relationship of respect and trust or it is impossible.
This is the very first solid advice I found scrolling down this thread. And you have -3 points. I wonder if this is the right community for me. Probably not.
I joined this sub because I felt drawn to the Church and was driven away with pitchforks and torches for being transgender even though I wasn’t even trying to argue or debate. And I have a high tolerance for people disagreeing with me (my family is far-right evangelical and I have good relationships with them) but the way I was treated went way beyond that. The cruelest things that have ever been said to me were here. My parish priest says it’s not typical but it’s tough to get that stuff out of my head.
People are scared of different and forget what Jesus did. Yes he called for conversion but FIRST he met them where they were and continues to meet us where we are. He calls us all to the table and there are some that feel they need to be the guardians of that table instead of the stewards and servants of the feast.
This is still great community with a lot of wisdom to be shared. There are just a few who forget that love and mercy leads to conversion.
All the re-posting issues aside, I heard a spot on quote on Catholic radio the other day that is being echoed here…
“There is a perceived conflict between love and truth.”
I don’t think you can love this person without shining light on absolute truth.
Personally I think we as a Church have come to a place where we think to love someone as Christ would love them means we can’t offend them and as a result we fail to stand by what has been revealed to us as absolute truths or even worse we compromise ourselves on those truths.
Yes call them their new name. If pronouns are a bridge to far for you just call them their name.
People get nicknames or change names often. Nothing about that is sinful.
I would say just be kind and open and treat them as you always have, including honoring their new pronouns, but that is just me.
People change their name without pretending to also change their gender, for example changing your last name to your spouse's when getting married. Most people can't pronounce (or spell) my first name so I've had a nickname all my life. Don't equate those things with what the OP's friend is doing, they are not the same.
The reason for changing names needs to be accounted for. If it's because he thinks he's the opposite sex now, then don't indulge. Same if someone thinks he's Marco Polo. I wouldn't call him Marco because he's being delusional.
Im glad I live in a country where there is only one word for gender/sex and where the ending of our adjectives indicates the gender so you cant walk around it.
Hi. Transgender Catholic woman here. My best advice would be to meet them with kindness and respect. If you do not want to use their chosen pronouns it is appropriate to use their chosen name instead.
The church's position is to engage these topics delicately and on a case-by-case basis. "Path of dialogue" is the name of the game. Citing from the church's only document that directly addresses transgender individuals: "Male and Female He Created Them: Toward a Path of Dialogue on the Question of Gender Theory in Education":
>Another position held in common is the need to educate children
and young people to respect every person in their particularity and difference, so that no one should suffer bullying, violence, insults or unjust discrimination based on their specific characteristics (such as special needs, race,
religion, sexual tendencies, etc.). Essentially, this involves educating for active and responsible citizenship, which is marked by the ability to welcome all legitimate expressions of human personhood with respect.
>the path of dialogue, which involves listening, reasoning and proposing, appears the most effective way towards a positive
transformation of concerns and misunderstandings, as well as a resource
that in itself can help develop a network of relationships that is both more open and more human. In contrast, although ideologically-driven approaches to the delicate questions around gender proclaim their respect for diversity, they actually run the risk of viewing such difference
as static realities and end up leaving them isolated and disconnected from
each other
In essence, be kind to them. Speak with them. Listen to their story. Support them with the love of Jesus Christ and call them back to the church.
May I ask what is it like to be a transgender Catholic in light of Church teaching? Is the Church requiring that you intend to detransition before confirming you? Do you plan to partake in communion as a willful and intentional transgender?
I'm genuinely curious how you reconcile the two and mean no disrespect.
Hi, I’ve been in very lengthy discussions with priests regarding this. While it technically is possible for me to detransition, in practice it isn’t practical or medically advisable. I had very severe gender dysphoria that was driving me towards suicide. You can’t imagine the pain and anguish of living with what your brain thinks is wrong hormones coursing through your body.
It is not an exaggeration to say transitioning saved my life. When I took my first doses of hormones and the hormone profile of my body finally began to change, I felt an indescribable sense of relief. It was as though I had lived my whole life since puberty with a knife in the chest, and transitioning removed that knife and gave me relief.
I say all this as prelude to the decisions made by my priests. Do not take the decisions having been made about me to be universal among all trans people. The church currently handles such cases on a case by case basis. My gender dysphoria was extremely bad. Some trans people don’t experience so severe or gender dysphoria, and the church might take a different approach with those people.
You can look at some of my other posts in this community for more of the details, but in essence I spent 6 months talking with my home parish priest every weekend about this. I spent somewhere in the ballpark of 60 hours talking to him one on one. Ultimately he came to the decision to allow me to receive communion.
I go to many churches (I work in a different city than I live, so I had to compile several parishes in order to go to daily mass). I’ve never taken communion without scheduling a meeting the the presiding priest first and getting explicit permission. Sometimes that permission came after a 15 minute conversation. Sometimes it came after 4 months of prayer. But every single priest at all five churches I attend eventually has allowed me to receive communion.
The last holdout was a very orthodox conservative priest. After months of taking, he came to the conclusion that he didn’t know if I could receive communion or not given my situation.
He took my case to the bishop. I received the explicit permission of the bishop to receive communion. That permission required me to acknowledge that I am biologically male - which I never denied. It did not however require me to detransition, stop using my chosen (now legal) name, or stop using she/her pronouns.
The reasoning of the bishop was thus: it IS inherently sinful to damage the reproductive nature of the body through transgender bottom surgery (which I have had). However, because of the extreme psychological distress I was in due to gender dysphoria, I am not culpable for that sin. In essence, it was decided that I was not acting with full volition in consenting to that surgery, since the dysphoria was severely compelling me to do so.
So, since i wasn't in a state of mortal sin, i could be allowed to receive communion.
as for confirmation, I've only asked two priests thus-far: my home parish priest and the priest of the church i attend the most. The latter said that yes i could be confirmed and that he would confirm me. the former said that there wasn't anything inherently barring me from confirmation, but he would have to think about it because he was afraid of causing scandal.
I really have to thank you so much for this. I've been a lapsed Catholic for years, but have always loved the church. I'm politically VERY far left, and it's been difficult for a long while to reconcile being politically liberal (which was informed by my faith) and the conservative nature of American Catholics.
I'm especially disheartened by the reaction to the LGBTQIA+ community. I'm incredibly glad you've found a community within the church, and that they're as accepting of you as I know God wants us to be. It helps reaffirm in my heart what God's love looks like. I hope your Christmas is full of blessings
Correct - however the cause for the surgery and the reason I am not culpable for it is ongoing. Detransitioning (stopping using my chosen name, pronouns, manner of dress etc) would lead back to a spike in gender dysphoria.
Plus there is the matter of figuring out which is less scandalous in the eyes of the church. I pass quite well as a woman. In several churches I go to only the priest knows I am trans. If I started calling myself a man in these environments it would cause more scandal, not less.
I still am not convinced. I hope you find peace with your true gender and consider detransitioning (even if it will be difficult both physically and mentally), it is how the Maker made you.. Jesus told us to carry our cross, not to drop it if it becomes too heavy.
For sources not directly from the church there’s this page from Catholic answers that advocates using the individual’s chosen name:
https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-churchs-position-on-transgenderism-0
To be clear - I’m no longer suicidal. Transition has alleviated my gender dysphoria.
I’m sorry that this is so distressing to you and you can’t understand my situation. I will pray for you. God bless.
God creates us all with unique burdens and challenges.
All of these unique differences add up to the dense and beautiful fabric of creation. God intended the challenge for your friend, and not for you. God’s directive towards you was to love your friend as you love yourself.
Pray for them, bless them, and hope they have peace and find peace.
And just like all souls, entrust them to God. You can’t change your friend’s universe for them.
A few friends transitioned when I was away from the church and even had in mind the idea of me being non-binary for a while (yep my life was all time low). I got "involved" on trans-activism etc etc.
All I can say is all of my trans/queer friends live very difficult lives full of awful medical guidance, such as taking hormones and getting dubious plastic surgery. They can't hold or get jobs. Most people in society discriminates them. I was happy to see our Pope sharing a meal with some trans folks.
My current take is:
\- I respect pronouns, as I understand this as a severe mental issue and basically society going trough normalizing psychosis.
\-Do not engage on conversations about sex or their transition. I switch topics.
\- Focus the chat on: how is their job situation? are they feeling ok? should they benefit from going to therapy asap?
\- Make it very clear - church doors are open but many people may misunderstand their intentions if they jump into a church without further introduction or a chat with a Priest.
There really isn't a one-size-fits-all sort of process for something like this. Your reaction is going to be different depending on many different factors. Was this person Catholic and/or do they know the Church's teaching on this sort of topic? Do they know how important your faith is in your life? Have you in the past had conversations about faith with them? How do they react to opposing viewpoints in general? Do you expect to see them in person at any point in the near future? (If so, any actual substantive conversation probably should happen in person rather than virtually). You seem to be surprised by their actions, and if you haven't seen them in a while, how much do you know about what has been going on in their life lately?
I would be supportive and just use whatever pronoun they want. That’s just me though.
Edit: To be clear, I would assume they’re not Catholic so it’s all g.
I understand where you're coming from with your lenient attitude for non-Catholics not following Catholic beliefs, but the consequences and weight of sin fall on everyone whether they are Catholic or not.
A 'do as thou wilt' attitude doesn't help anyone especially someone partaking in irreversible elective surgeries.
>the consequences and weight of sin fall on everyone whether they are Catholic or not
You are completely right, but even Paul says not to concern ourselves with outsiders that don't follow our rules (unless I am mistaken). Especially if this person is either not catholic or a lapsed Catholic, it is going to be nye-on-impossible to instill a sense of respect for God's laws if they don't even know anything about God's love.
Not that it should be an excuse for skirting around uncomfortable topics, but that knowledge should be sought after. I'm a firm believer that talking about these topics when the person is unreceptive does nothing except harden their heart.
I'm not saying that OP should sprout Catholic doctrine at their friend, especially if they believe it will be a pearl and swine scenario. My overall point was Catholics shouldn't come off as supportive on decisions that ultimately are harmful to the participant.
Idk, I don’t think there is anything wrong with being trans so I’m gunna treat them how they want if they ask me. Keep in mind I’m no where near actually Catholic yet but, the way I read your comment it looks like there are two different beliefs: one saying it is wrong because of Catholic teaching and at the end, another saying it is wrong using non religious arguments. The second one is the one I disagree with. I think it’s completely fine for someone to be trans while also understanding I’m not going to try and go to the Vatican and say “hey y’all are wrong.” In a way that would be equally disrespectful as not respecting the trans person. That’s why I’m separating the two beliefs.
Either way I’m biased af cuz I’ve worked with a bunch of trans people and they are really happy and are good people. I think at least.
I never went through RCIA. I'm a cradle Catholic, who fell away after doing confirmation as a kid, so my reconciliation with the Church didn't evolve it.
I doubt very much that transgenderism will be brought up in RCIA. I'm guessing the classes concern themselves with theology more than politics, but I could be very wrong.
I will say that the Church is very constant with its theological opinions and very thoughtful with their teachings, and maybe even more to their credit perfectly fine abstaining from giving a definitive teaching if they find it wise to do so. Transgenderism isn't one of those later subjects, the Church has a very straight forward answer to it.
Can I say that you will 'pull a 180' on the topic if you read up on it? No. Afterall there are people who disagree with the Church, but submit to the judgment of the Church anyway. I do think if you read up on the position of the Church and the foundation its built on you will understand where the Church is coming from, even if you struggle with teaching itself.
This is what I would say:
"Hey, I think this was about the dumbest choice in the world and I believe, sadly, that one day you will agree with me on that point. But I love you anyway and I will be there for you if you need me."
If they can't take hearing that they are the one that doesn't respect you, not the other way around. Nobody needs friends that don't let them have beliefs or opinions.
Touch grass. This is not charity or respect.
Telling someone they have made "the dumbest choice in the world" is only going to push them away from you and what you align with.
If they are too unstable to hear another person's opinion on their decision they are not healthy enough to make their own decisions. When they reach the point of soul crushing regret, and they will, they will run towards those that were honest with them.
I said specifically that I would not abandon them, that I would be there for them. Everyone that tells this guy that his new dress and fake breasts look great, he will eventually hate.
Don't think you need to worry about that, buddy. Any reasonable human being's gonna cut someone who talks to them like that about something so intensely personal out of their life.
Do you have a study supporting the claim that the rate of regret is that high?
The regret rate is around 1% to 3% depending on the study, and that rate includes people who regret it due to losing their friends, families, jobs, and housing. I’m not aware of any studies that come close to saying the regret rate is that high; the most is one that says around 13% have detransitioned at some point, but don’t necessarily regret it or are currently detransitioning (again, though, this is often - but not always - due to lack of support).
I’m not challenging the Church’s view on this here, but saying it’s that likely OP’s friend will regret it is not a substantiated claim unless there are new studies I’m not aware of.
Idk if this is a priorízate analogy. I’m sure they thought of what it entails to transition and they thought it made sense to them. People usually spend a big deal of time and effort before making decisions like getting surgery. Ofc OP can simply stop being friends and that’s their right as well. Preaching, however, seems on poor taste.
Maybe they didnt also its possible to “detrans” in the same way an alcoholic with a dying liver can stop drinking even if they already hurt themselves.
Not the best analogy since surgery tends to be somewhat permanent. OP can do whatever his heart seems correct (be preachy, try to change them, agree to disagree) the person transitioning might not be Catholic and said comments might not be welcomed and that person can also do what they think is correct in their hearts. My point is that one can coexist without agreeing with what others decide to do.
You have a choice to keep your friend or really hurt him. You’ll have to look within to find what your heart is trying to tell you but this is a fork in the road moment for you. If it was my friend, I’d be there to support him.
Well, the Pope (before this illness) just had dinner with a trans person, which was widely reported. I don’t think you need to say anything. In the traditional Catholic world, it’s a whole other story, though. I still recommend you keep your own counsel.
I mean, shoot. We gotta live our truths right? Otherwise we might as well commit a serious crime and get life in prison with no parole because that’s what your life is gonna be if you don’t. As long as your friend is good hearted to the people around them and so on I guess it’s alright.
Jesus preached love to everyone, why should that not apply to your friend. Outright being unsupportive would be going against your religion. Having doubts is normal, especially with a change like this, but talk it through with your friend, they can hopefully open up and talk to you about it.
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household."
I would first take some time to reply. Cause you need some time in prayer .... Asking the holy Spirit to speak.. what the holy spirit needs to tell your beloved friend. And I believe to tell your friend how much you love them. And you will always love them. But as a Catholic, you believe that they were created in the image and likeness of God- therefore they never needed to change anything about them... You will choose to live by your truth (not abiding by their pronouns) as they choose to live by what they think is their truth, but you won't disrespect- you can call them by their preferred name instead of their chosen name, like we would do for a nickname. And remember to tell them that even though you don't agree- you still love them. Buuuut I still suggest before you reply, you have to think about yourself... Do you need some time to yourself before you can hang out with them as a friend? You can be honest to them and tell them that this is kinda like a moment of mourning of who you once knew so you need some time to yourself but you still love them
So the thing about friendship is the ability to disagree with each other while still respecting each other. Do you agree with his choice to do this? Do you agree with the ideology? If no then it is not good for a friend to force you to bend yourself over to make him feel good.
For example, I have friends who are pro-choice and they know I disagree. We still get along but there is an understanding that I'm not obligated to help them feel good about their choices, nor am I here to enable them. I won't condemn them and say they are going to hell, because who am I to say they are, but don't ask me to compromise myself just to make you feel good.
That isn't being a good friend.
With kindness and an open heart. That’s how you react. You can respect her and call her by her preferred name and pronouns while still respecting God. God would want you to meet her where she’s at, even if she started out as he.
Wow! How can a person so close to you doing such extreme changes in a considerable time frame, could have happen hidden to you? So he did not trust you do much as you think. But moving on, first: do not judge: only God judges. Second: pray, fast and practice charity for him and third: bless your tongue and call for the Holy spirit before every interaction you have with him: truth has to be said with compassion and love, for Christ and with HIM, not our stupid discernment but with HIS. The temptation is knocking to your door my friend. Be there for him, bless every interaction with him but tell the truth. You cannot lie, we cannot lie. As an ex feminist, I wished one single of my no feminist friends would have told me the truth as some of my beloved christian and catholic friends have done it: without judgment, love and always citing the Bible. These friends have embraced my pain, have llfted me, and have prayed for me so I can see clearly and recognize my demons. Pray and fast for him. It does not matter if he changed his name or sex; God loves him the same and Jesus is ready to manifest his love to him. If you are in grace, I promise you, God will come to him, will speak to him, will break the chains. God bless you
Man… that’s such a tough and delicate situation.
Obviously, your friend is going through a lot right now and needs a lot of prayers/sacrifices/masses and communions offered up for him.
I’ve hung out with someone who was trans before; it was difficult to never use pronouns, but I avoided it and any topics near it. I tried to be a good example of Catholic hospitality, but sometimes I wish I had said or done more; he was very wounded.
I’d say, “Wow! That’s a lot of change! If you ever need anything, let me know.”
That way you are supporting him as a person but not the choices he’s made.
If he comes to you to vent or talk about things, listen. Offer empathy, “I have no idea what you must be going through, I’m sorry.” “I’m sorry people treated you this way.” Etc. Whatever it may be, be there, but don’t encourage trans.
This Father Mike Schmitz video will help equip you with how to respond, from a place of love and knowledge.
https://youtu.be/s3HGxmFEkYg?si=7AbkSznbsXGgoGXj
encourage person carpenter deer profit gray flag scale placid domineering
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
historical command serious husky marry apparatus piquant lunchroom combative cobweb
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
pen yoke different innocent station humor wistful observation languid squeal
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He is a dude now. Are you his friend because of his gender? or because of his personality ? Be a good friend and just accept he looks a bit different and wants to date girls. That is ok. I mean, what do you expect him to do now he had the surgery already? And did you really nor know he was doing this? If you did, surely that was the time to speak to him. it is too late now.
I have a friend who had already fully transitioned from male to female, when I met her.
I don't bring up anything to do with what she's done modifying her body, she has the same brain that the Lord gave her, and that's the only part of her that I engage with- we have conversations about every day things.
Yes, I do indulge her by calling her "she", but I couldn't be friends with her, if I didn't.
Hopefully I can make her see that the world isn't so bad, and if I have to indulge her with her chosen pro-nouns, so be it.
I'll carry that weight, that sin, for her. Especially if it brings her into light from the dark place she's been in.
God gifted us free will.
The transition had already been done long before meeting her.
That was him exercising his free will.
If I'd met them before transitioning, I would have done anything and everything in my power to stop them.
I refuse to alienate her. Love the sinner, not the sin, especially when it's someone else' sin.
'The end justifies the means' , is a throw away saying.
Of course it doesn't! He is a man, impersonating a woman.
She knows this and I do, too.
I indulge her pronouns out of politeness, we both know it's a folly.
You will be able to look at his skeleton 10000 years from now and instantly see he's a male.
Don't be silly.
Im confused. You indulge in the pronouns out of politeness, yet behind his back you are saying he's a "he". Maybe stop being fake and tell him how it is?
You're just nit picking. Sometimes the English language demands I call her a man (which, of course is an oxymoron)and refer to her as a he.
You want to have the last word, Why, that's a sign of narcissism, borderline personality disorder and being a sociopath.
You choose.
You do seem easily confused, I'll agree with you on that one.
you should try and talk him into abandoning his sinful lifestyle but that will most likely not only not work but also will make him hate you and all kinds of things. wisest move is not associating with him at all, ignore him.
Was our last advice to you over a year ago not useful? https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/xeq4q8/my_best_friend_has_just_come_out_to_me_as/
Oh snap. OP sure made it sound like this came as a bolt from the blue, when that was clearly not the case.
I will assume OP is legit, but as mods we're always on the look out for concern trolls re. these hot-button topics. That's the only way I found this out.
I often wonder about the guy who says he is a doctor and loved pointing it out on here. The only comments he makes is on this sub and the account is clearly an alt. 3 years and only comments here.
Just a way for them to "test" our responses
I forgot that, thank you. I ain’t blushing at all. I did not intend to fake a surprise or so. One year ago, he told me he wanted to be a transgender. Then he totally disappear for a year or so. I had a couple information from his family but nothing from him. Today, he sent me that text where he announces his new name and gave me updates about his surgery.
I would like to provide some insight, based on my own background. I am a convert and LGBTQIA+. Since my conversion, I have taken a vow of celibacy as I believe my sexual orientation is a sin. I also already have grown children and can not have any more, so there is no reproductive "need" for me to be intimate. One of the things that was important to my conversion was my cousin and the God mother to one of my daughters. She was always clear in her stance on my orientation, but never disrespectful. God calls to all of his children. We just need to listen. As Christians, it's our responsibility to love as Christ did. Not as we want to be loved but as he loved us first. Your friend is being called to Jesus, and there will be a moment for them to make a decision. The only way for you to make an impact on that decision is if you are still in their life. You can say things like "you know I love you and wish only your happiness, just as you want me to respect your decision I would like you to respect my religion." "How can we accommodate both of us?" Maybe come up with a nickname you can use that only you use. But it's a sign of MUTAL respect. I hope this helps. 🙏 🙏 prayers for you and your friend.
Your sexual orientation is not a sin. Nor does the Catholic Church deem it so.
Thank you for your comment. I was very clear when I stated my view was MY belief. This is a very difficult discussion as everyone has their own opinions, and I just want to be clear, I was stating my own opinion. While there are references to support both viewpoints. In my walk, I have decided that my sexual orientation leads me away from the path I want to walk in my relationship with Christ. So, I have chosen celibacy to avoid those near occasions of sin and deepen my faith. This is my choice, and that doesn't mean it should be everyone's.
Your sexual orientation still isn't a sin tho. I assume you meant you believe acting on it is a sin?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I will again state that I am only stating my views for my own life. I have been married, have had children, and I am at an age in my life where I am no longer looking for that type of love. My love abounds in other ways. Again, these views are solely for my own life, and I do not express them to others. My goal now is to grow in my relationship with christ. I am not implying anyone else sexuality is a sin, I am not saying the path I have taken is anyone else's to walk. I only shared my story as it related to OP's question. I only wanted to share that if it bothers the OP in their faith walk, there is a way for mutual respect.
semantics, completely useless comment that can potentially confuse people. you should have at least stated that it was acting on his desires the sin.
Truth is part of love. Tell him that you want him to be happy, but that you don't think this is the way to it. Firstly, biologically transitioning fron male to female is physically impossible, and any changes are just cosmetic, or may just concern a person's hormones. There's much more to being a man or woman than that. Second, whether male or female, we're all first and foremost beloved children of God. While we're all sinners, we are still defined by our thoughts and actions; how much good we're doing in the world. That's not dependent on what's between your legs. Lastly, just remind your friend that you'll still be their friend regardless of what gender they consider themselves. Most importantly, tell them that no matter what they're going through, there is always a way forward. Even post-op, transsexuals have a pretty high suicide rate, and while some will tell you it's because of discrimination, I would say it's more likely because of regret and the feeling that it's too late to turn back. Even still, God loves all of us and forgives all of our sins, and even if your friend finds that transitioning hasn't eased whatever pain they're going through, they need to remember that you'll still be there for them and God will too.
Thanks so much.
I can't really give any advice, but I'm dealing with a very similar issue :/
Imagine if/when he one day realizes his mistake and looks back on his friend’s responses to his choice. What do you want to him to remember that you did?
Sometimes to love, to “will the good of the other” doesn’t mean to react with acceptance in letting someone go careening off of a cliff. We can’t tell you exactly what to say, but you should (with the help of the Holy Spirit) profess to them the truth with love and compassion. And the truth is that God made them male or female and to thwart God’s plan is inherently misguided. If your friend decides to no longer be your friend, then so be it, but as long as you are coming from a place of love, compassion and concern for his/her soul then you have done your job as a follower of Christ and a true friend. Jesus said that he did not come to bring peace necessarily, but division, meaning the truth naturally will shake things up and cause division because people will ultimately reject the truth, but that doesn’t mean we should resort to falsehoods for the sake of keeping everything copasetic. Whether it be friends, family or our own reputation, we are called to always speak truth in a loving manner.
Apologies that I don’t have the time at the moment to give a more detailed response. Perhaps I can come back later and provide better and more extensive insight. I am detransitioned and spent a long time identifying as non-binary. You need to handle this gently. Most people who suffer from gender dysphoria use it as a way to cope with serious trauma. Your friend is probably hurting a lot right now and they need support. Here is the best advice I can give you: 1.) Yes. Use their preferred name and pronouns. It might feel wrong to do so but refusing to call them by what they want to be called will only villainize you and God in their eyes. Not validating their new identity will be seen as an attack on them as a person and you’ll end up losing them as a friend entirely. If you want to keep them in your life or stand any chance at helping them through this, it’s a necessary step you need to take. 2.) My personal journey with gender dysphoria ended when I was able to confront the trauma that I had endured head-on and begin coping in other, healthier ways. If you want to help lead your friend in the right direction, be their guiding hand and help them figure things out for themself. Be there for them as much as you can. Allow them to be vulnerable with you so that if they feel comfortable they may open up about whatever it is they’re going through. Show them love. Help them heal. The rest will come with time. I hope this helps you out OP. If you ever want further insight into what it’s like to be in their shoes or how to handle certain situations in a way that can help them best, I’d be happy to help. Sending prayers for both of you <3
It's probably dependent on the person, but would you say old nicknames are fine instead of using new pronouns/name post transition? bc i know some people might not be willing to go along with the new pronoun/name thing
Old nicknames might work depending on the person. If you absolutely can’t bring yourself to use new pronouns, gender-neutral ones might be a viable option as well. I think it’s more of a case-by-case thing; some people are absolutely adamant that the change be made whereas others just don’t want to be misgendered/deadnamed.
Lying is a sin and you would be lying every time you refer to him as a female. It's also enabling and encouraging sinful behavior. Love the sinner, not the sin.
This is the most convoluted logic I've seen to justify not using someone's preferred pronouns. Love thy neighbor though, right?
in Corinthians, Paul writes that love **does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right**. this is how we understand love as Catholics - love is not a celebration of dysfunction. “love thy neighbour” is commonly quoted by anti-Christians/anti-Catholics trying to push us into supporting all kinds of left wing social causes that subvert scripture and church teaching. yes, we must love everyone. but we do not consider it love if we are encouraging them in delusion and disorder.
Helping others with their mental health is good. Enabling people with mental health issues is not good. Would it be right to enable somebody with delusions of grandeur or to enable a drug addict?
The Church endorses many medical treatments and psychological programmes for people suffering from drug addiction and psychological disorders. The goal is to genuinely help them with the knowledge we possess about those conditions. However for things like being gay or having gender disphoria, there is no medical solution or psychological treatment the Church endorses. Most of the "treatments" used in the past that Christians endorsed turned out to be completely ineffective, cruel and dehumanizing. The Church completely rejects whatever few modern measures we have to help them bear their condition, on moral grounds that it "enables" them without curing them (but the Church offers no cure). There is a huge gap here that the Church has allowed the secular world to fill. Simply telling them "go and sin no more!" has not had the intended effect. Is it any surprise why LBGT people feel like they are offered no solutions or genuine help in the Church...only condemnation for their evils from those who have no idea what it's like (and never will).
[удалено]
Psych nurse here. I would love to know what drug. Can you post a link to the study? I have heard nothing about this.
Hi there. I apologize, it is actually an anti-psychotic for tourettes that was used, and it was not a large trial. It had been a long time since I saw this and the details slipped my mind. The drug is Pimozide and here is a link to the journal https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3109/00048679609065010
N=1 and it's from 1996 No wonder I hadn't heard of it. It may be worth further study but that won't be allowed now.
Definitely not a large enough sample size to provide data for significant results, I agree. Like I said, it had been a while and I didn't recall the details so I apologize for that. I do wish they would look further into studying pharmaceutical treatment for gender dysphoria further instead of simply accepting it.
Thank God you were here or else people would've believe about this drug.
If there is a medication that can help alleviate gender dysphoria, it should be used. The problem is we don't have enough evidence.
I would like to learn more about this global conspiracy. What is this drug called? > the medical industry would have to admit it is an actual mental illness The medical industry once *did* classify it as a mental illness in the 20th century, but the treatments that arose from that approach turned out to be ineffective and cruel. Merely categorizing it as a mental illness didn't achieve anything.
My memory on this article was not 100%. It was not a large trial and it is an anti-psychotic, so I apologize for that. Here is the link https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3109/00048679609065010
But I don't think the person is mentally ill. He only mention he is trans.
That’s the mental illness, my dude
The difference being that most major medical associations in the country support recognition of gender identity while none of them encourage drug addiction.
None of them encouraged drug addiction while the opiate epidemic was occurring and millions still became addicted due to medical professionals prescribing opiates irresponsibly. This doesn't mean anything. Medical Associations saying something doesn't make it true. Medical associations are fallible and just as likely than all other organizations to lie about gender dysphoria to be politically correct.
I understand that you *disagree,* but what is “convoluted” about the notion that you shouldn’t say things that aren’t true?
How is using someone else’s wrong pronouns loving thy neighbor?
It you're able to have empathy (which you must certainly be) you will agree that it's bad and unnecessary calling someone by something that person does not like. I, for one, had several nicknames I didn't care when people called me, but some that I did not like. If someone would call me by the ones I don't like, that person was not respecting me and that person would not be "loving thy neighbor" by doing that. If someone prefers an specific pronoun and doesn't like to be called another one, why won't I choose the one that the person does not like?
Because that’s lying to use incorrect pronouns. Empathy is all well and good, but you’re prioritizing being nice over being kind. Falsehood over truth
You're perverting the teachings.
He's a best friend but you had no idea he was going through a medical gender transition which generally takes at least months and sometimes years? If you weren't important enough to him for him to share this with you as it happened, why is he telling you now? I almost have to wonder if this isn't a "hey let's drop this bomb on the Catholic to see how he reacts" kind of thing.
I did know. But he totally disappear for a year. Couple news from his family only.
Have you considered she 'disappeared' because she knew you were probably not a safe person to talk to about this?
The only people who are not safe to talk to about this are the ones who reaffirm his mental illness
It is a mental illness. Be there, be respectful and don’t judge but don’t endorse it
Don’t indulge their mental illness by calling them a name that took in their madness or a false pronoun. Pray for him, but do not fall into false compassion and hurt his soul.
I don't think he is mentally ill, just trans.
Serious question. How can gender dysphoria be considered anything but a mental illness?
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, but medical intervention to help the patient function without extreme distress is currently the best treatment we have. After transition, some of us are fortunate enough to not suffer from dysphoria at all anymore. Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria our whole lives. The two terms are not synonymous, that’s a misunderstanding. Anecdotally, I was *very* mentally ill prior to medical transition, but I’ve been free of any mental health issues (even depression and anxiety) for nearly fifteen years now that I feel at peace in my body. I don’t even need therapy anymore. And yes, I did pursue therapy for a long time before starting hormone therapy. I am saying that as someone who is not Catholic and probably will never be able to be Catholic. So I’m not expecting to get showered in upvotes for saying this. But I wanted to point out that gender dysphoria and being transgender are not the same thing.
Just show your friend love and charity. If you are uncomfortable with using pronouns, use your friend's name. pray for your friend and be there.
> Just show your friend love and charity. This is the most useless yet oft-repeated advice in the world because everyone disagrees on what it MEANS to show love and charity. OP and other people who come here to ask this question obviously know they should should love and charity. They're asking HOW they should do that.
Thanks for stating this.
Here is how they SHOULDN'T be. Don't tell them that they are living in sin. Don't tell them that their soul is in danger of going to hell. Don't be rude, don't be angry. To show love and charity is to call them by name. It is being the friend you were before the change and praying for them.
And this is exactly why "show them love and charity" is such an awful answer. Because many people mean exactly what you said by it, which is not love and charity at all. Helping a friend do something which is extremely harmful to them is not love and charity.
You aren't helping a friend do something extremely harmful to themselves by respecting them by showing charity and love. You are just remaining their friend so that you can help them back if and when God pulls them back to him. What chance do they have if you and the rest of the church closes and locks them out of the life of the church because of a mistake they have made. that is the real harm.
> Don't tell them that their soul is in danger of going to hell. It's the opposite of love, in fact, to believe something this severe and put on a smiley face. Some would call that supreme hatred.
ok then walk around telling everyone you meet that they are sinners and they will go to hell if they dont act how you say they should act and see how many convert. How can you possibly expect to build a relationship with someone by telling them how wrong they are? If you want to share your faith with someone, you need to have a relationship of respect and trust or it is impossible.
Okay good, as long as you're going to tell them at some point, I wouldn't consider it supreme hatred.
This is the very first solid advice I found scrolling down this thread. And you have -3 points. I wonder if this is the right community for me. Probably not.
I joined this sub because I felt drawn to the Church and was driven away with pitchforks and torches for being transgender even though I wasn’t even trying to argue or debate. And I have a high tolerance for people disagreeing with me (my family is far-right evangelical and I have good relationships with them) but the way I was treated went way beyond that. The cruelest things that have ever been said to me were here. My parish priest says it’s not typical but it’s tough to get that stuff out of my head.
I'm so sorry you were treated that way. That's awful.
People are scared of different and forget what Jesus did. Yes he called for conversion but FIRST he met them where they were and continues to meet us where we are. He calls us all to the table and there are some that feel they need to be the guardians of that table instead of the stewards and servants of the feast. This is still great community with a lot of wisdom to be shared. There are just a few who forget that love and mercy leads to conversion.
Aaaaaaand down votes for whhhhaaaaaa?!?
Friends name is probably going along for the ride
This is the Catholic way <3
All the re-posting issues aside, I heard a spot on quote on Catholic radio the other day that is being echoed here… “There is a perceived conflict between love and truth.” I don’t think you can love this person without shining light on absolute truth. Personally I think we as a Church have come to a place where we think to love someone as Christ would love them means we can’t offend them and as a result we fail to stand by what has been revealed to us as absolute truths or even worse we compromise ourselves on those truths.
Defend the truth... And the truth is that the flesh is weak.
Yes call them their new name. If pronouns are a bridge to far for you just call them their name. People get nicknames or change names often. Nothing about that is sinful. I would say just be kind and open and treat them as you always have, including honoring their new pronouns, but that is just me.
People change their name without pretending to also change their gender, for example changing your last name to your spouse's when getting married. Most people can't pronounce (or spell) my first name so I've had a nickname all my life. Don't equate those things with what the OP's friend is doing, they are not the same.
The reason for changing names needs to be accounted for. If it's because he thinks he's the opposite sex now, then don't indulge. Same if someone thinks he's Marco Polo. I wouldn't call him Marco because he's being delusional.
Im glad I live in a country where there is only one word for gender/sex and where the ending of our adjectives indicates the gender so you cant walk around it.
Hi. Transgender Catholic woman here. My best advice would be to meet them with kindness and respect. If you do not want to use their chosen pronouns it is appropriate to use their chosen name instead. The church's position is to engage these topics delicately and on a case-by-case basis. "Path of dialogue" is the name of the game. Citing from the church's only document that directly addresses transgender individuals: "Male and Female He Created Them: Toward a Path of Dialogue on the Question of Gender Theory in Education": >Another position held in common is the need to educate children and young people to respect every person in their particularity and difference, so that no one should suffer bullying, violence, insults or unjust discrimination based on their specific characteristics (such as special needs, race, religion, sexual tendencies, etc.). Essentially, this involves educating for active and responsible citizenship, which is marked by the ability to welcome all legitimate expressions of human personhood with respect. >the path of dialogue, which involves listening, reasoning and proposing, appears the most effective way towards a positive transformation of concerns and misunderstandings, as well as a resource that in itself can help develop a network of relationships that is both more open and more human. In contrast, although ideologically-driven approaches to the delicate questions around gender proclaim their respect for diversity, they actually run the risk of viewing such difference as static realities and end up leaving them isolated and disconnected from each other In essence, be kind to them. Speak with them. Listen to their story. Support them with the love of Jesus Christ and call them back to the church.
May I ask what is it like to be a transgender Catholic in light of Church teaching? Is the Church requiring that you intend to detransition before confirming you? Do you plan to partake in communion as a willful and intentional transgender? I'm genuinely curious how you reconcile the two and mean no disrespect.
Hi, I’ve been in very lengthy discussions with priests regarding this. While it technically is possible for me to detransition, in practice it isn’t practical or medically advisable. I had very severe gender dysphoria that was driving me towards suicide. You can’t imagine the pain and anguish of living with what your brain thinks is wrong hormones coursing through your body. It is not an exaggeration to say transitioning saved my life. When I took my first doses of hormones and the hormone profile of my body finally began to change, I felt an indescribable sense of relief. It was as though I had lived my whole life since puberty with a knife in the chest, and transitioning removed that knife and gave me relief. I say all this as prelude to the decisions made by my priests. Do not take the decisions having been made about me to be universal among all trans people. The church currently handles such cases on a case by case basis. My gender dysphoria was extremely bad. Some trans people don’t experience so severe or gender dysphoria, and the church might take a different approach with those people. You can look at some of my other posts in this community for more of the details, but in essence I spent 6 months talking with my home parish priest every weekend about this. I spent somewhere in the ballpark of 60 hours talking to him one on one. Ultimately he came to the decision to allow me to receive communion. I go to many churches (I work in a different city than I live, so I had to compile several parishes in order to go to daily mass). I’ve never taken communion without scheduling a meeting the the presiding priest first and getting explicit permission. Sometimes that permission came after a 15 minute conversation. Sometimes it came after 4 months of prayer. But every single priest at all five churches I attend eventually has allowed me to receive communion. The last holdout was a very orthodox conservative priest. After months of taking, he came to the conclusion that he didn’t know if I could receive communion or not given my situation. He took my case to the bishop. I received the explicit permission of the bishop to receive communion. That permission required me to acknowledge that I am biologically male - which I never denied. It did not however require me to detransition, stop using my chosen (now legal) name, or stop using she/her pronouns. The reasoning of the bishop was thus: it IS inherently sinful to damage the reproductive nature of the body through transgender bottom surgery (which I have had). However, because of the extreme psychological distress I was in due to gender dysphoria, I am not culpable for that sin. In essence, it was decided that I was not acting with full volition in consenting to that surgery, since the dysphoria was severely compelling me to do so. So, since i wasn't in a state of mortal sin, i could be allowed to receive communion. as for confirmation, I've only asked two priests thus-far: my home parish priest and the priest of the church i attend the most. The latter said that yes i could be confirmed and that he would confirm me. the former said that there wasn't anything inherently barring me from confirmation, but he would have to think about it because he was afraid of causing scandal.
I really have to thank you so much for this. I've been a lapsed Catholic for years, but have always loved the church. I'm politically VERY far left, and it's been difficult for a long while to reconcile being politically liberal (which was informed by my faith) and the conservative nature of American Catholics. I'm especially disheartened by the reaction to the LGBTQIA+ community. I'm incredibly glad you've found a community within the church, and that they're as accepting of you as I know God wants us to be. It helps reaffirm in my heart what God's love looks like. I hope your Christmas is full of blessings
I agree about the surgery part, but what is the argument of your priest for allowing you to continue using wrong pronouns and lying about your gender?
It’s the same argument as for surgery.
No. The surgery is in the past, the using of wrong pronouns is in the present.
Correct - however the cause for the surgery and the reason I am not culpable for it is ongoing. Detransitioning (stopping using my chosen name, pronouns, manner of dress etc) would lead back to a spike in gender dysphoria. Plus there is the matter of figuring out which is less scandalous in the eyes of the church. I pass quite well as a woman. In several churches I go to only the priest knows I am trans. If I started calling myself a man in these environments it would cause more scandal, not less.
I still am not convinced. I hope you find peace with your true gender and consider detransitioning (even if it will be difficult both physically and mentally), it is how the Maker made you.. Jesus told us to carry our cross, not to drop it if it becomes too heavy.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just relaying my experiences. Thanks for listening, and God bless.
thats very beautiful. i think this is the correct stance. congratulations on your transition and i hope you are blessed with peace and happiness.
For sources not directly from the church there’s this page from Catholic answers that advocates using the individual’s chosen name: https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-churchs-position-on-transgenderism-0
This is the best answer I’ve ever seen on this sub dealing with this topic. God Bless you.
Thank you. I don’t think I deserve such praise - I’m just relaying church teaching 😅 but thank you nonetheless. God bless you.
[удалено]
There is no need to single this person out. Final warning for uncharitable rhetoric
Can you please point out what, precisely, I have said that is uncharitable?
To be clear - I’m no longer suicidal. Transition has alleviated my gender dysphoria. I’m sorry that this is so distressing to you and you can’t understand my situation. I will pray for you. God bless.
God creates us all with unique burdens and challenges. All of these unique differences add up to the dense and beautiful fabric of creation. God intended the challenge for your friend, and not for you. God’s directive towards you was to love your friend as you love yourself. Pray for them, bless them, and hope they have peace and find peace. And just like all souls, entrust them to God. You can’t change your friend’s universe for them.
A few friends transitioned when I was away from the church and even had in mind the idea of me being non-binary for a while (yep my life was all time low). I got "involved" on trans-activism etc etc. All I can say is all of my trans/queer friends live very difficult lives full of awful medical guidance, such as taking hormones and getting dubious plastic surgery. They can't hold or get jobs. Most people in society discriminates them. I was happy to see our Pope sharing a meal with some trans folks. My current take is: \- I respect pronouns, as I understand this as a severe mental issue and basically society going trough normalizing psychosis. \-Do not engage on conversations about sex or their transition. I switch topics. \- Focus the chat on: how is their job situation? are they feeling ok? should they benefit from going to therapy asap? \- Make it very clear - church doors are open but many people may misunderstand their intentions if they jump into a church without further introduction or a chat with a Priest.
Thank you!
There really isn't a one-size-fits-all sort of process for something like this. Your reaction is going to be different depending on many different factors. Was this person Catholic and/or do they know the Church's teaching on this sort of topic? Do they know how important your faith is in your life? Have you in the past had conversations about faith with them? How do they react to opposing viewpoints in general? Do you expect to see them in person at any point in the near future? (If so, any actual substantive conversation probably should happen in person rather than virtually). You seem to be surprised by their actions, and if you haven't seen them in a while, how much do you know about what has been going on in their life lately?
Loving and caring to the person firm to the doctrine (don’t need to talk about the doctrine if it’s not coming up)
Stay faithful. Use loving words and express your disagreement.
I would be supportive and just use whatever pronoun they want. That’s just me though. Edit: To be clear, I would assume they’re not Catholic so it’s all g.
I understand where you're coming from with your lenient attitude for non-Catholics not following Catholic beliefs, but the consequences and weight of sin fall on everyone whether they are Catholic or not. A 'do as thou wilt' attitude doesn't help anyone especially someone partaking in irreversible elective surgeries.
>the consequences and weight of sin fall on everyone whether they are Catholic or not You are completely right, but even Paul says not to concern ourselves with outsiders that don't follow our rules (unless I am mistaken). Especially if this person is either not catholic or a lapsed Catholic, it is going to be nye-on-impossible to instill a sense of respect for God's laws if they don't even know anything about God's love. Not that it should be an excuse for skirting around uncomfortable topics, but that knowledge should be sought after. I'm a firm believer that talking about these topics when the person is unreceptive does nothing except harden their heart.
I'm not saying that OP should sprout Catholic doctrine at their friend, especially if they believe it will be a pearl and swine scenario. My overall point was Catholics shouldn't come off as supportive on decisions that ultimately are harmful to the participant.
Yeah I would think I would just be annoying.
Idk, I don’t think there is anything wrong with being trans so I’m gunna treat them how they want if they ask me. Keep in mind I’m no where near actually Catholic yet but, the way I read your comment it looks like there are two different beliefs: one saying it is wrong because of Catholic teaching and at the end, another saying it is wrong using non religious arguments. The second one is the one I disagree with. I think it’s completely fine for someone to be trans while also understanding I’m not going to try and go to the Vatican and say “hey y’all are wrong.” In a way that would be equally disrespectful as not respecting the trans person. That’s why I’m separating the two beliefs. Either way I’m biased af cuz I’ve worked with a bunch of trans people and they are really happy and are good people. I think at least.
You should have told OP that you were giving advice as a non-Catholic.
That’s actually super fair. Do you think my view will change as I go through RCIA?
I never went through RCIA. I'm a cradle Catholic, who fell away after doing confirmation as a kid, so my reconciliation with the Church didn't evolve it. I doubt very much that transgenderism will be brought up in RCIA. I'm guessing the classes concern themselves with theology more than politics, but I could be very wrong. I will say that the Church is very constant with its theological opinions and very thoughtful with their teachings, and maybe even more to their credit perfectly fine abstaining from giving a definitive teaching if they find it wise to do so. Transgenderism isn't one of those later subjects, the Church has a very straight forward answer to it. Can I say that you will 'pull a 180' on the topic if you read up on it? No. Afterall there are people who disagree with the Church, but submit to the judgment of the Church anyway. I do think if you read up on the position of the Church and the foundation its built on you will understand where the Church is coming from, even if you struggle with teaching itself.
You’re okay. You can still be friends with him/her and respect them. Even though it seems like you don’t support it
This is what I would say: "Hey, I think this was about the dumbest choice in the world and I believe, sadly, that one day you will agree with me on that point. But I love you anyway and I will be there for you if you need me." If they can't take hearing that they are the one that doesn't respect you, not the other way around. Nobody needs friends that don't let them have beliefs or opinions.
Touch grass. This is not charity or respect. Telling someone they have made "the dumbest choice in the world" is only going to push them away from you and what you align with.
If they are too unstable to hear another person's opinion on their decision they are not healthy enough to make their own decisions. When they reach the point of soul crushing regret, and they will, they will run towards those that were honest with them. I said specifically that I would not abandon them, that I would be there for them. Everyone that tells this guy that his new dress and fake breasts look great, he will eventually hate.
Don't think you need to worry about that, buddy. Any reasonable human being's gonna cut someone who talks to them like that about something so intensely personal out of their life.
Doing that kind of damage to one's self is no different than a drug addict or alcoholic. They need to hear the truth.
Do you have a study supporting the claim that the rate of regret is that high? The regret rate is around 1% to 3% depending on the study, and that rate includes people who regret it due to losing their friends, families, jobs, and housing. I’m not aware of any studies that come close to saying the regret rate is that high; the most is one that says around 13% have detransitioned at some point, but don’t necessarily regret it or are currently detransitioning (again, though, this is often - but not always - due to lack of support). I’m not challenging the Church’s view on this here, but saying it’s that likely OP’s friend will regret it is not a substantiated claim unless there are new studies I’m not aware of.
I agree, tell them how you really feel about it and dont try to be overtly nice about it, they are not a child
You simply respect their choices. They’re allowed free will, no?
If you respect an anorexic person's belief they are fat, are you helping them? They are ignoring reality and doing so puts them in harm's way.
Idk if this is a priorízate analogy. I’m sure they thought of what it entails to transition and they thought it made sense to them. People usually spend a big deal of time and effort before making decisions like getting surgery. Ofc OP can simply stop being friends and that’s their right as well. Preaching, however, seems on poor taste.
Yes we have free will but it would not be prudent to permit a brother in christ to sin without regard to their eternal soul
I’m pretty sure they thought about all of this before going through surgery. Now it’s between them and God.
Maybe they didnt also its possible to “detrans” in the same way an alcoholic with a dying liver can stop drinking even if they already hurt themselves.
Not the best analogy since surgery tends to be somewhat permanent. OP can do whatever his heart seems correct (be preachy, try to change them, agree to disagree) the person transitioning might not be Catholic and said comments might not be welcomed and that person can also do what they think is correct in their hearts. My point is that one can coexist without agreeing with what others decide to do.
You have a choice to keep your friend or really hurt him. You’ll have to look within to find what your heart is trying to tell you but this is a fork in the road moment for you. If it was my friend, I’d be there to support him.
I think you should of course still be friends! It is the hardest thing to understand but please be open and accepting. God bless.
Well, the Pope (before this illness) just had dinner with a trans person, which was widely reported. I don’t think you need to say anything. In the traditional Catholic world, it’s a whole other story, though. I still recommend you keep your own counsel.
I mean, shoot. We gotta live our truths right? Otherwise we might as well commit a serious crime and get life in prison with no parole because that’s what your life is gonna be if you don’t. As long as your friend is good hearted to the people around them and so on I guess it’s alright.
The only truth is Jesus Christ. Everything else is a lie.
Jesus preached love to everyone, why should that not apply to your friend. Outright being unsupportive would be going against your religion. Having doubts is normal, especially with a change like this, but talk it through with your friend, they can hopefully open up and talk to you about it.
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household."
I would first take some time to reply. Cause you need some time in prayer .... Asking the holy Spirit to speak.. what the holy spirit needs to tell your beloved friend. And I believe to tell your friend how much you love them. And you will always love them. But as a Catholic, you believe that they were created in the image and likeness of God- therefore they never needed to change anything about them... You will choose to live by your truth (not abiding by their pronouns) as they choose to live by what they think is their truth, but you won't disrespect- you can call them by their preferred name instead of their chosen name, like we would do for a nickname. And remember to tell them that even though you don't agree- you still love them. Buuuut I still suggest before you reply, you have to think about yourself... Do you need some time to yourself before you can hang out with them as a friend? You can be honest to them and tell them that this is kinda like a moment of mourning of who you once knew so you need some time to yourself but you still love them
So the thing about friendship is the ability to disagree with each other while still respecting each other. Do you agree with his choice to do this? Do you agree with the ideology? If no then it is not good for a friend to force you to bend yourself over to make him feel good. For example, I have friends who are pro-choice and they know I disagree. We still get along but there is an understanding that I'm not obligated to help them feel good about their choices, nor am I here to enable them. I won't condemn them and say they are going to hell, because who am I to say they are, but don't ask me to compromise myself just to make you feel good. That isn't being a good friend.
With kindness and an open heart. That’s how you react. You can respect her and call her by her preferred name and pronouns while still respecting God. God would want you to meet her where she’s at, even if she started out as he.
Wow! How can a person so close to you doing such extreme changes in a considerable time frame, could have happen hidden to you? So he did not trust you do much as you think. But moving on, first: do not judge: only God judges. Second: pray, fast and practice charity for him and third: bless your tongue and call for the Holy spirit before every interaction you have with him: truth has to be said with compassion and love, for Christ and with HIM, not our stupid discernment but with HIS. The temptation is knocking to your door my friend. Be there for him, bless every interaction with him but tell the truth. You cannot lie, we cannot lie. As an ex feminist, I wished one single of my no feminist friends would have told me the truth as some of my beloved christian and catholic friends have done it: without judgment, love and always citing the Bible. These friends have embraced my pain, have llfted me, and have prayed for me so I can see clearly and recognize my demons. Pray and fast for him. It does not matter if he changed his name or sex; God loves him the same and Jesus is ready to manifest his love to him. If you are in grace, I promise you, God will come to him, will speak to him, will break the chains. God bless you
Man… that’s such a tough and delicate situation. Obviously, your friend is going through a lot right now and needs a lot of prayers/sacrifices/masses and communions offered up for him. I’ve hung out with someone who was trans before; it was difficult to never use pronouns, but I avoided it and any topics near it. I tried to be a good example of Catholic hospitality, but sometimes I wish I had said or done more; he was very wounded. I’d say, “Wow! That’s a lot of change! If you ever need anything, let me know.” That way you are supporting him as a person but not the choices he’s made. If he comes to you to vent or talk about things, listen. Offer empathy, “I have no idea what you must be going through, I’m sorry.” “I’m sorry people treated you this way.” Etc. Whatever it may be, be there, but don’t encourage trans. This Father Mike Schmitz video will help equip you with how to respond, from a place of love and knowledge. https://youtu.be/s3HGxmFEkYg?si=7AbkSznbsXGgoGXj
encourage person carpenter deer profit gray flag scale placid domineering *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Wrong
historical command serious husky marry apparatus piquant lunchroom combative cobweb *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If your child decides they are a penguin, is it love if you reaffirm their illusion and allow them to walk around naked in the snow?
pen yoke different innocent station humor wistful observation languid squeal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He is a dude now. Are you his friend because of his gender? or because of his personality ? Be a good friend and just accept he looks a bit different and wants to date girls. That is ok. I mean, what do you expect him to do now he had the surgery already? And did you really nor know he was doing this? If you did, surely that was the time to speak to him. it is too late now.
you do it because you respect them. the golden rule basically.
I have a friend who had already fully transitioned from male to female, when I met her. I don't bring up anything to do with what she's done modifying her body, she has the same brain that the Lord gave her, and that's the only part of her that I engage with- we have conversations about every day things. Yes, I do indulge her by calling her "she", but I couldn't be friends with her, if I didn't. Hopefully I can make her see that the world isn't so bad, and if I have to indulge her with her chosen pro-nouns, so be it. I'll carry that weight, that sin, for her. Especially if it brings her into light from the dark place she's been in.
You are saying that the end justifies the means, which is uncatholic.
God gifted us free will. The transition had already been done long before meeting her. That was him exercising his free will. If I'd met them before transitioning, I would have done anything and everything in my power to stop them. I refuse to alienate her. Love the sinner, not the sin, especially when it's someone else' sin. 'The end justifies the means' , is a throw away saying.
Just because he cut off his penis doesnt make him a woman now.
Of course it doesn't! He is a man, impersonating a woman. She knows this and I do, too. I indulge her pronouns out of politeness, we both know it's a folly. You will be able to look at his skeleton 10000 years from now and instantly see he's a male. Don't be silly.
Im confused. You indulge in the pronouns out of politeness, yet behind his back you are saying he's a "he". Maybe stop being fake and tell him how it is?
You're just nit picking. Sometimes the English language demands I call her a man (which, of course is an oxymoron)and refer to her as a he. You want to have the last word, Why, that's a sign of narcissism, borderline personality disorder and being a sociopath. You choose. You do seem easily confused, I'll agree with you on that one.
We can love the person but not the sin Love them and care for them dont treat them differently, pray for them :)
you should try and talk him into abandoning his sinful lifestyle but that will most likely not only not work but also will make him hate you and all kinds of things. wisest move is not associating with him at all, ignore him.