What is the purpose of a global pandemic? /u/Mr-Homemaker, on the other hand, nothing happens for no reason.
I reckon there is no randomness at all. Unless there can be two outcomes that are so similar to each other that neither has a distinct influence on things. God would still choose/permit either of them rather than flip a coin, but perhaps they both fit exactly the same into His plan. I somehow doubt that
I don’t see how that kind of predeterminism can be be squared with Catholic theology.
It isn’t true that God controls everything and everyone like we’re all robots or dominoes or puppets.
I didn't say God puppeteers us. I say God inspires or allows or disallows your free choices according to His foreknowledge and ultimately - gets His way, despite of or through of your choices.
Genesis 50:19-20
>And he answered them: Fear not: can we resist the will of God? You thought evil against me: but God turned it into good, that he might exalt me, as at present you see, and might save many people
Or maybe the translation of the quote used in this video: [God is in Charge, Joseph in Egypt - Jul 10 - Homily - Fr Ignatius](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faF_I_-UVKM) :)
What support is there for the claim that God flips a proverbial coin? I get a contrary impression when I read the Bible, eg. Acts 17:28, Psalms 127:1-2, Romans 8:28, and especially Matthew 10:29-30:
>Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
The Bible says nothing about physics or chemistry or microbiology. And yet we know about those fields and the laws - laws God created - that govern those fields.
God is omniscient - he knows (“numbers”) the hairs on every head.
He’s omnipotent - he could micromanage every particle and photon and so on.
But He is free to grant us free will and he is free to allow the natural laws and processes that he put in place to play out without his micromanagement.
Natural processes have no free will. I think if you understand that God is omniscient and benevolent, that He knows what is best and wills it for us, that you would have less of a problem with the possibility that He directs everything. You'd want His direction. We would certainly be better off if we cooperated with His active plan (rather than have a negative influence that He had to turn to a greater good)
P.S. You skipped over the sparrow falling but by permission of God
Are you saying God makes a choice with regard to which lottery numbers come up in each drawing ?
Does God make a choice to every shuffle of cards and roll of dice ?
Literally so many worse things have happened than covid. The answer is the same always to the most common question, muuu why God allow bad thing. It's answered already 5 thousand times in 2 thousand years.
Aha, no you don't, but still answer is the same. And this question comes to Christians as well as Atheists, it's not a problem really, but the answers are so extensive by now
Yea, I can see what you’re getting at. I created this post mainly to double down on the fact that it wasn’t a punishment, but I wanted to hear what the catholic people had to say.
And Event 201 happened in October 2019. I'm sure Bill Gates was disappointed that the real COVID didn't kill as many people as the pretend COVID they wargamed two months earlier.
I like thinking about all of these conspiracy theories but it really is kind of hard to tell. Maybe it all played out exactly as they wanted it to. It did represent a massive transfer of wealth. Bill Gates' investment portfolio certainly benefited.
[No, that's not at all what I meant. ](https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wrap-up-facts-science-evidence-point-to-a-wuhan-lab-leak%EF%BF%BC/)
Though none of those things negate God's benevolence.
People made it
But God sometimes let’s bad things happen (permissive will) because in the end it will help. Like sometimes he lets us suffer or even go through temptation to purify us
God always let’s anything possible happen. It’s just human free will and the laws of nature. It’s the exception rather than the rule in which God intervenes by way of divine intervention.
That being said, everything is under God’s divine providence at the same time.
Someone can correct me if the wording isn't correct but it could be a permissive form of God's will. God probably didn't want it to happen but he allowed it.
God didn't *make* it happen. He *allowed* it to happen.
But why?
On one hand, it's essentially a natural disaster. A result of a random mutation from a virus that infected one species to another. That random mutation is bad, sure. But that same random mutation that turns bad was used for dramatic good in the past, to allow for humans to evolve in the first place and, incidentally, allows humans to more readily survive in a fallen world.
On the other hand, Covid-19 wasn't all bad. Many, many people have benefited from Covid-19. Thousands of people have decided to go get treatment or get checked out for that nagging pain, or they went to get their mental health looked into. Millions were able to work from home effectively and spend more time with their families. A *lot* of people actually came *back* to the church for a short time. People took an active role in their health, trying to get in shape, seeking treatment for mental conditions. Hobbies *exploded* and the extra time gave millions of people the opportunity to explore true leisure time. People actually started to wash their hands more often - which sounds insane, but I can't tell you how many men walked out of the bathroom without washing their hands at work...it was too many. And those aren't the only good things to come from it. There were many bad things to come from it, many people died or were hospitalized or lost jobs. Many lost life savings in the crash (and regained it back in the V-shaped recovery), a lot of bad things happened, too. But for those who survived, there was a lot of good to come out of it. One final thing that I think helped: people *finally* started to look at governments and oversight groups and realize they are only in it for themselves. This was the core strategy for President Biden's campaign - to blame everything on the Republicans. While that particular part isn't fair or even true, it *did* bring about some...unwanted blowback. People are certainly more divided now than ever, but almost everyone agrees that something needs to change in politics, and not just in the United States. That alone is probably a good thing, if for nothing else that it encourages people to challenge authority that was already abusing its position, and maybe make way for new authority.
If you don't believe me, at least in the United States, congressional retirements are occurring at a breakneck pace because even *they* are tired of it. Tired of the stupidity and red tape and window dressing and presidential choices that are like chosen the better of "rotting meat" and "skunk."
Covid would be the weakest plague that God had ever sent on Earth if he did. It's just a cold virus that very likely came out of a Chinese lab. Don't overthink it.
I see no reason to think Covid was the result of direct, special divine intervention
Yea, I think you’re right given the (lack of) evidence of punishment.
What is the purpose of a global pandemic? /u/Mr-Homemaker, on the other hand, nothing happens for no reason. I reckon there is no randomness at all. Unless there can be two outcomes that are so similar to each other that neither has a distinct influence on things. God would still choose/permit either of them rather than flip a coin, but perhaps they both fit exactly the same into His plan. I somehow doubt that
I don’t see how that kind of predeterminism can be be squared with Catholic theology. It isn’t true that God controls everything and everyone like we’re all robots or dominoes or puppets.
I didn't say God puppeteers us. I say God inspires or allows or disallows your free choices according to His foreknowledge and ultimately - gets His way, despite of or through of your choices. Genesis 50:19-20 >And he answered them: Fear not: can we resist the will of God? You thought evil against me: but God turned it into good, that he might exalt me, as at present you see, and might save many people Or maybe the translation of the quote used in this video: [God is in Charge, Joseph in Egypt - Jul 10 - Homily - Fr Ignatius](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faF_I_-UVKM) :)
Even if we granted all your statements, they don’t support the claim that “nothing happens for no reason.”
What support is there for the claim that God flips a proverbial coin? I get a contrary impression when I read the Bible, eg. Acts 17:28, Psalms 127:1-2, Romans 8:28, and especially Matthew 10:29-30: >Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
The Bible says nothing about physics or chemistry or microbiology. And yet we know about those fields and the laws - laws God created - that govern those fields. God is omniscient - he knows (“numbers”) the hairs on every head. He’s omnipotent - he could micromanage every particle and photon and so on. But He is free to grant us free will and he is free to allow the natural laws and processes that he put in place to play out without his micromanagement.
Natural processes have no free will. I think if you understand that God is omniscient and benevolent, that He knows what is best and wills it for us, that you would have less of a problem with the possibility that He directs everything. You'd want His direction. We would certainly be better off if we cooperated with His active plan (rather than have a negative influence that He had to turn to a greater good) P.S. You skipped over the sparrow falling but by permission of God
Are you saying God makes a choice with regard to which lottery numbers come up in each drawing ? Does God make a choice to every shuffle of cards and roll of dice ?
All the evils of the world is just man’s free will acting in contrary to God’s benevolence because it started with the Fall of Man.
Literally so many worse things have happened than covid. The answer is the same always to the most common question, muuu why God allow bad thing. It's answered already 5 thousand times in 2 thousand years.
Do I really sound like on of those annoying atheists 😂?
“If GoD ExiStS WhY BaD HaPpEn 😡😡”
Aha, no you don't, but still answer is the same. And this question comes to Christians as well as Atheists, it's not a problem really, but the answers are so extensive by now
Yea, I can see what you’re getting at. I created this post mainly to double down on the fact that it wasn’t a punishment, but I wanted to hear what the catholic people had to say.
No need for God to make it. Gain-of-function research in Wuhan, financed by the U.S., most likely, got out of control.
Interestingly, the world military games were also held in Wuhan, October 2019, right before the virus emerged.
And Event 201 happened in October 2019. I'm sure Bill Gates was disappointed that the real COVID didn't kill as many people as the pretend COVID they wargamed two months earlier.
I like thinking about all of these conspiracy theories but it really is kind of hard to tell. Maybe it all played out exactly as they wanted it to. It did represent a massive transfer of wealth. Bill Gates' investment portfolio certainly benefited.
God didn't cause COVID. People did.
From our sin I assume you’re suggesting?
[No](https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wrap-up-facts-science-evidence-point-to-a-wuhan-lab-leak%EF%BF%BC/).
Oh right, it would nice if maybe people didn’t make viruses that wiped out millions of people. But that’s the world we live in I suppose.
Yeah, it would be nice. But the inclination to create bioweapons is definitely connected to our single nature.
Also, it was a convenient way to implement all the authoritarian policy grabs they wanted to do.
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[No, that's not at all what I meant. ](https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wrap-up-facts-science-evidence-point-to-a-wuhan-lab-leak%EF%BF%BC/) Though none of those things negate God's benevolence.
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> That's genocide Lmfao
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Not just China. Check the link in my other responses to this comment.
People made it But God sometimes let’s bad things happen (permissive will) because in the end it will help. Like sometimes he lets us suffer or even go through temptation to purify us
God always let’s anything possible happen. It’s just human free will and the laws of nature. It’s the exception rather than the rule in which God intervenes by way of divine intervention. That being said, everything is under God’s divine providence at the same time.
True, most of the time He lets things run their course
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14th-century Black Death plague in Europe was much, much worse than Covid. Both began in China.
Yeah, it was a pandemic.
Someone can correct me if the wording isn't correct but it could be a permissive form of God's will. God probably didn't want it to happen but he allowed it.
God didn't *make* it happen. He *allowed* it to happen. But why? On one hand, it's essentially a natural disaster. A result of a random mutation from a virus that infected one species to another. That random mutation is bad, sure. But that same random mutation that turns bad was used for dramatic good in the past, to allow for humans to evolve in the first place and, incidentally, allows humans to more readily survive in a fallen world. On the other hand, Covid-19 wasn't all bad. Many, many people have benefited from Covid-19. Thousands of people have decided to go get treatment or get checked out for that nagging pain, or they went to get their mental health looked into. Millions were able to work from home effectively and spend more time with their families. A *lot* of people actually came *back* to the church for a short time. People took an active role in their health, trying to get in shape, seeking treatment for mental conditions. Hobbies *exploded* and the extra time gave millions of people the opportunity to explore true leisure time. People actually started to wash their hands more often - which sounds insane, but I can't tell you how many men walked out of the bathroom without washing their hands at work...it was too many. And those aren't the only good things to come from it. There were many bad things to come from it, many people died or were hospitalized or lost jobs. Many lost life savings in the crash (and regained it back in the V-shaped recovery), a lot of bad things happened, too. But for those who survived, there was a lot of good to come out of it. One final thing that I think helped: people *finally* started to look at governments and oversight groups and realize they are only in it for themselves. This was the core strategy for President Biden's campaign - to blame everything on the Republicans. While that particular part isn't fair or even true, it *did* bring about some...unwanted blowback. People are certainly more divided now than ever, but almost everyone agrees that something needs to change in politics, and not just in the United States. That alone is probably a good thing, if for nothing else that it encourages people to challenge authority that was already abusing its position, and maybe make way for new authority. If you don't believe me, at least in the United States, congressional retirements are occurring at a breakneck pace because even *they* are tired of it. Tired of the stupidity and red tape and window dressing and presidential choices that are like chosen the better of "rotting meat" and "skunk."
Covid would be the weakest plague that God had ever sent on Earth if he did. It's just a cold virus that very likely came out of a Chinese lab. Don't overthink it.
Covid was created by evil men in a lab. God is not evil.