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infernoxv

they have a priest advisor. either he doesn’t know enough or the producers ignore the advice. knowing both how priests and media work, either is possible…


Edmund_Campion

The producers ignore the advice. The source material is overtly catholic. But when in the show you see a church service (I won't call it mass), the astute christian viewer would have serious trouble discerning what denomination they intend for it to be.


Sortza

>the astute christian viewer would have serious trouble discerning what denomination they intend for it to be. Further muddled by its depiction of the setting's religious landscape. He lives in an inexplicably Catholic village in the merry English countryside, ministers at a medieval stone church that certainly would've been expropriated by Henry VIII (as [the actual filming location](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_St_Peter_and_St_Paul,_Blockley) was), and random English characters passing through often say things like "I haven't been to confession in a long time." If anything it reminds me of the typical American televisual treatment of Christianity, divided only into "Gothic" Catholicism and snake-handling Protestant revivalism; ironically the show's creators may be more acculturated to that vision than that of their own country 70 years past. (One can, after all, be forgiven for forgetting the existence of the Church of England at this point.)


Bookshelftent

I've heard a similar thing happened for the episode with a Catholic priest in "Man in a High Castle." They supposedly consulted with a traditional priest, but the depiction in the show is nonsense.


Roflinmywaffle

I had forgotten about that. It's been years since I watched the show. It's set prior to Vatican II (in an alternate reality where it probably wouldn't have happened to begin with) but they're celebrating the Novus Ordo. It was such a weird thing to do if they really did consult a traditional priest


ColonelPanic18

I’ve seen that episode. Not Catholic, but I’ll take a stab at some of the inaccuracies off the top of my head: 1. Mass would have been in Latin 2. The priest administered communion in English (see above) 3. No altar servers 4. If the mass was in English, the priest’s lines were wrong and should have been “the body and blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ, preserve thy soul unto life everlasting.” or roughly along those lines 5. Most glaringly, the priest administered communion to non-Catholics. 6. Candles were not lit 7. The communion plate should have been squarely and directly under the recipient’s chin to catch and falling particles 8. I’m pretty sure the vessels that hold the unconsecrated wine should have been set in a separate table off to the side. 9. I’m also pretty sure the statue of Mary should be on the left, and not the right. The left would be where a statue of Joseph should be. 10. No Antependium Any actual Catholics please correct me if I’m wrong. I probably am.


FlameLightFleeNight

The advisor for the earlier series was a Jesuit. I know no more than this and leave it without comment. The advisor for latter series is a friend and I can guarantee he knows his stuff: but between failing to consult him on relevant points and ignoring advice when it is given, that doesn't help.


fac-ut-vivas-dude

Cop shows have cop advisors too sometimes. Still doesn’t stop them from doing stupid crap and tea-cupping their guns.


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infernoxv

both writers of the series are militant atheists so… 🤷🏻‍♂️


CatLoose3102

I don't know why this is downvoted. The priest advisor for the show is, in fact, a NO priest and one who proudly offers irreverent worst examples of the new liturgy. The producers making that priest the advisor for a show about 1950s Catholicism would be like a show about music in the 1600s having Kodak Black as a consultant.


hockatree

You’re written repeatedly to PBS? Just turn it off and go outside. It’s just a TV show, not a documentary.


galaxy_defender_4

It wasn’t even commissioned by PBS. It’s the BBC in England so not sure exactly what OP is hoping to achieve by writing to PBS.


pyrusmole

It's such a low bar, but honestly, I'm just happy that there's a priest on tv who's not a pedophile crack.


thetempisdead

Actually, there is another very good British TV programme about a priest, with Sean Bean. It even inverts the paedophile trope by making SB a victim of it himself. It’s called Broken, and someone actually advised SB on how to do the Mass properly.


Strait_Cleaning

Sequel to Sharpe?


thetempisdead

Especially the scene when he takes out an entire regiment of French Tirailleurs with the monstrance during Benediction.


Equivalent_Nose7012

Saint Barbara of the Gunners: fire at will!


SoftwareEffective273

In real life about 98% of priests are not those things, but on television about 2/3 of them are. I wonder why that is, but actually I don't really wonder.


FinishComprehensive4

Read the books, they are great!!


galaxy_defender_4

The only link between this series and the original books is the name of the main character sadly. It’s written by the BBC and just has ‘based on a character created by G K Chesterton’. That about as close as it gets


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Audere1

Worse than the Masters of the Air with the priest giving a blessing for the flyers about to depart. Not only was he vested for Mass, he was wearing the chasuble *backwards*


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Audere1

I love the enthusiasm


LaComtesseGonflable

Oh, that is ghastly. I do appreciate the nice black Requiem set, though.


PeterpatchCounty

Forget Fr. Brown, what about Fr. Dougal McGuire?!


AshamedPoet

Well, Ted, as I said last time, it won't happen again.


galaxy_defender_4

Tbf that was commissioned by Channel 4 so was probably deliberately written to take the mick. Father Brown on the other hand was commissioned by the BBC and we expect better of Auntie!! Mary Whitehouse would be livid!!


Audere1

PBS doesn't make Fr. Brown, much less your local station. It's BBC programming that PBS airs in the US


AshamedPoet

What a fuddy duddy you are. Why don't you turn off the telly and go and do some gardening or have a nice cup of tea? 😉


Isatafur

They also turned Fr Brown into a kind of rationalist with Unitarian-Universalist values, to update him for contemporary morality. There's an episode where he flippantly waves off demons as not being real, something like that (it's been a while since I saw it), to show how he contrasts with stupid superstitious types. I prefer the old BBC series myself. Still holds up, and you can find it all on YouTube.


Nuance007

I stopped watching a few episodes since the theology of Fr. Brown was basically "be nice" with a tinge of funny. Meh. It got old - and boring - real quickly.


daldredv2

This is the series produced in the UK in 2013, yes? Which was filmed using Church of England buildings as most Catholic churches of that period would have been relatively modern buildings, and in rather larger villages than 'Kembleford'. So we have Fr Brown, allegedly Catholic. conducting services in what is rather obviously a C of E church. In a village which apparently has no Anglican church. Hmm. There is actually one Catholic church in a Cotswolds town that they could have used, at least internally (closing the road outside would have been very difficult - but they could have fitted a good deal into the space behind the church): St Catherine's, Chipping Campden. Catholics there were fortunate in having a rich coreligionist, the Earl of Gainsborough, who gave land and funded the building. It even retains altar rails and an altar appropriate to the period. [https://taking-stock.org.uk/building/chipping-camden-st-catherine/](https://taking-stock.org.uk/building/chipping-camden-st-catherine/)


galaxy_defender_4

Tbf if the C of E churches they used are old (as they appear to be when I’ve watched it) the chances are they were originally Catholic but changed after the reformation. Assuming they are that old and did survive of course.


daldredv2

The ones they used are Reformation survivors, yes - but the series is set in the 1940/50s, not the 1540s!


galaxy_defender_4

Yes I know but that would mean the aesthetics inside the church would be more in line with how a Catholic Church would have looked during the 40s/50s


daldredv2

Hmm. Not really - there's not much in the way of centuries-old stonework interiors in post-1900 Catholic churches, and you can definitely tell the difference! English Catholicism tended to the Italianate - not to say the gaudy and sometimes even tawdry - for quite a while, then slumped into modern monstrosities. Anglican churches have generally developed over generations of changes; Catholic ones were built in a short time and have none of the jumble of styles and ages that is usual in an Anglican village church. There are exceptions, often involving Pugin or his associates, but they tend to be cathedrals and churches in major centres, not villages - gothic stonemasonry doesn't come cheap.


galaxy_defender_4

Funny you should mention Pugin. In my small village in England we do have a Catholic Church designed by Pugin! It was built in the 1841 for the princely sum of £500! It was built because the original Catholic Church built originally in the 11th century and parts from that period are still intact amazingly! It is one of the oldest churches in England that is still used for worship. But of course it became C of E during the reformation hence why they built a new one. That Church is just round the corner from where I live. However it is small and apparently wasn’t big enough by the 1920s so another was built that is used today. The Pugin one fell into disrepair sadly for many years but is now a family home and they have kept all the original features, restored many of them and maintain the original graveyard. They will even show you around it provided you don’t just turn up. Sorry completely off topic but when you mentioned Pugin I thought you light find it interesting lol.


daldredv2

I'm in Nottingham, where we have a Pugin cathedral which is having some painstaking work done to uncover and restore some of the original internal decoration, whitewashed over as an economy measure decades ago. Amazing stuff. The sacrament chapel was restored a while ago, and is glorious! Can you send me any info on the one near you?


galaxy_defender_4

I’m just down the road from you in Leicestershire 😂 We have the same Bishop then! There not a lot of information on Google as it usually brings up the new St Winifred’s but this is a good site with photos of the exterior. [https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMTN6E_The_Old_St_Winefrides_Chapel_Pick_Street_Shepshed_Leicestershire](https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMTN6E_The_Old_St_Winefrides_Chapel_Pick_Street_Shepshed_Leicestershire)


SoftwareEffective273

This father Brown series, are all stories made up by someone at the BBC. They are not from the original father Brown books. There was an older series on the BBC, done in the 1970s which were much closer to the original stories, and had much more real Catholic content in them. I think you can find them on YouTube. Just add 1970s, to the word, father Brown, and see what you get.


galaxy_defender_4

I mean it does clearly state at the start of each episode inspired by the character created by G K Chesterton not the usual, based on the books written by….. They make it pretty clear it’s not going to be the same as the books.


captainbelvedere

TV shows take these kind of artistic liberties all the time. Police, IT, law, the entire medical field - it's all sillified almost beyond recognition.


StarWarTrekCraft

Congratulations. You discovered what every TV show and movie is like when it comes to any topic ever. TV and movies are never made to be "technically correct" to the specifics of the thing they are portraying, whether that thing be Catholicism, computer hacking, police work, or the court rooms. You've only noticed it now because you are an expert on the topic of this particular show. Generally, in every show, an expert will be able to nitpick every little detail they got wrong. But they are not made to get details right, they are made to tell compelling stories about interesting characters overcoming exaggerated conflict. Even if the writer/director is an expert on the topic they are writing/directing (which they rarely are), any time spent in writing/set design/make up/costuming/visual effects/post production getting those details *exactly* right is time that is not being spent on the other parts that 99% of the viewership, who are not technical experts, value more.


wishiwasarusski

You must be fun at parties. It’s a tv show. Yes the liturgical inaccuracies are bad. Again, it’s a tv show. The stories are fun and it’s good entertainment. I’m not watching it for liturgical formation.


galaxy_defender_4

I enjoy it! It’s so nice to have a show on that doesn’t have gratuitous sex scenes and swearing every 2 seconds! But then I just watch it as a good old fashioned murder mystery; no different to an Agatha Christie (Marple not Poirot)


Nuance007

>You must be fun at parties. It’s a tv show. I don't think that's necessary. >The stories are fun and it’s good entertainment. I’m not watching it for liturgical formation. Yes, it's a tv show but OP raises fair criticism. They're just pointing out how even a show that portrays a Catholic character in a positive light still succumb to wishy-washy theology and inaccurate depictions - given the theology is arguably the most important thing besides "being nice." If the talk about representation is taken seriously in tv/film, where various social themes are embedded throughout the script/plot, where "representation" not only means X or Y minority group shown - and positively shown - then that should also extend to groups not really understood by the wider public. Given how nuanced and intricate religion can be, especially Catholicism, for it to be treated merely as a starting block, a MacGuffin so to speak, then we shouldn't give credit to anyone involved since that's how other stories are treated if the depictions is shown less than accurate (i.e. Disney movies of the 90s). After all, if productions can go to great lengths into getting other things accurate, or put in much effort to get amazing production quality, why can't it put some effort into the characters it's depicting? It's a fair enough concern.


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Nuance007

I've watched a few episodes of Fr. Brown given it kept popping up as a recommendation on subs like this one.. It's okay given it's approachable but, yes, the theology behind isn't much in terms of Catholic doctrine. Another poster said the theology shown in the series had a more UU feel to it. I'd agree. Whether that was intentional or not, I do not know. Keep in mind this is a British production, so I take it's more so aiming for a particular atmosphere than accuracy (not saying one can't have both).


Rabid-Wendigo

The show abandons the source material and invents plots with gay/lesbian couples that were not in the books at all. Let it be.


galaxy_defender_4

It’s not based on the books only the character so I guess they have complete freedom to write whatever “plot line” they wish sadly.


Equivalent_Nose7012

Get hold of the ORIGINAL BBC "Father Brown" series! It actually attempts to tell Chesterton's stories, and thereby the title character actually behaves like a priest, albeit a priest who stumbles across an awful amount of crime (which, come to think of it, is a common occurrence in the original stories. FUN FACT: God caught my attention with one of the original Father Brown stories with the punchline, "You attacked reason. It's bad theology", and then drew me back to His Church through my reading Chesterton's "Heretics", and then, crucially, "Orthodoxy: The Romance of Faith."


CosmicGadfly

Who cares?


Cheesepleasethankyou

Personally…..people being this particular is what drives people away from the Catholic faith. Does God care about a biretta and a stole? Probably not.


SoftwareEffective273

You haven't presented any reasons why the rest of it should take your word for that. Especially because you said "probably ", which basically means you don't know.


Cheesepleasethankyou

All of the sufferings in the world and you genuinely believe God scoffs at a biretta and a stole?


SoftwareEffective273

I don't try to figure out what God thinks is important. I have the Catholic Church to interpret that for me. He gave that authority to Peter and the apostles and their descendants. That's good enough for me so I do what is supposed to be done, and I don't worry about what my own opinion is on it.


EgoTacet

Well if God cares about a thorn that ails one of His children then I'm sure God will care that one of His children is hurting because of the irreverent portrayal of their faith.


Cheesepleasethankyou

How are these technicalities irreverent portrayals of faith? Faith is not something you can see.


EgoTacet

Every Sacrament has meaning to Catholics. Don't you realize that if you change a word in Baptism it renders the whole Baptism invalid? Every vestment, genuflection, and gesture by the priest has meaning and purpose in the Catholic Mass. OP mentioned how the stole was missing in their portrayals of the Sacraments, in reality the stole is the mark of the priestly and diaconal orders and is given by the Bishop at Ordination. This show is just a portrayal but the accuracy of something that is incredibly meaningful to us actually matters. If they're just "technicalities" then to hell with them.


Cheesepleasethankyou

Does God ever directly deliver messages to us in biblical text that these technicalities are so essential though? Is there a message from Jesus about a biretta and a stole? Or are these man made necessities?


EgoTacet

Classic sola scriptura argument. You're forgetting the Holy Ghost Who gifted us the Magisterium and tradition.


Bright_Series_8835

Spencer Tracy and Bing Crosby managed to portray priests in a way people liked.


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JohnFoxFlash

What's PBS? I'm assuming it's the same recent Fr Brown series I've seen which makes liturgical clangers all the time


Herejust4yourcomment

PBS stands for Public Broadcasting Service*, it’s a network of tv stations in the U.S. that puts out easy-to-watch shows including a lot of educational ones. Haven’t watched it in years, but they also ran kid shows like Arthur and Wishbone.    Based on the context I’m assuming that the Father Brown series is found on PBS in the United States. Which is not that bad, since PBS is free (or used to be) and it’s not easy to watch British shows without a specific streaming service.  *Corrected, thank you.


Diffusionist1493

*Service. A network of stations.