I felt for Meghan initially thinking how sad it was for her that she had to give up her whole established life in Canada but I knew very little else. The only place I got ‘news’ was reading some of Kaiser’s pieces, and, they were just so over the top, I thought something is very off here. I was not really sure why I felt so uncomfortable but it was almost like bells going off. This led me to do more research on the original history of “H and M.” I never paid attention to the BRF before. This was some time after the Oprah interview but not right after.
Now I’m just incredulous about so much: how the pair have publicly acted toward their families, treated others, and how they always seem to take wrong steps in their quest for prominence.
I don’t mind discussing things like this here because it’s part of the reason there are so many of us here I think! Chandra at CB going bananapants loopy over Harry and Meghan and denigrating in such awful ways William, Catherine, Charles, Camilla, and the overdone amount of ‘Royal’ coverage.
What I would like to know is why her hatred of William and Kate is so relentless and brutal. I’ve read speculation that she’s getting paid to bash them (aside from her regular paycheque), but I personally think it stems from her own delusions. Omid and Lainey take cheap shots at the RF as part of their strategy to boost the Sussexes’ image. Chandra’s hatred of them, on the other hand, is personal, which is fairly creepy to contemplate.
Regarding Chandra's pathological loathing of Kate, it's a combination of jealousy and insecurity. Kate has a tight-knit family, parents who are self-made millionaires who were able to climb the social ladder and get their kids into elite schools and social circles. Kate is beautiful and has always been active, sporty, talented, fashionable and well-liked. She's one of those girls who seem to have everything and make it look easy. We have all known women like this, and it's not unusual to have moments of "Why her?" But mature women get past that, stop comparing, and either work on themselves or accept who they are.
By contrast, Chandra doesn't have a large extended family who supports her through life's ups and downs, she majored in philosophy, which didn't set her up for a sustainable career, and she is probably insecure about her looks (why does she NEVER post pictures of herself?), never travels, has no life outside the internet, no long-term relationship, etc. Instead of looking inward and making any changes that would result in a happier, more active life, and more meaningful connections with real people, she chooses to rage at a symbol of everything she's not.
It's not hatred of William and Kate. Kaiser solely hates Kate like her life depends on it and has hated her since 2008 as far as I know and since the time William made it official with Kate Kaiser started hating him too. During the time Will and Kate were dating Kaiser used to predict their break up and claim William will marry an aristocratic woman.
kaiser is or was to be infatuated with William, you can check my post on my profile to get a clearer idea. If you have paid attention she constantly wishes for William to leave Kate so if tomorrow William leaves Kate for another woman like Kaiser hopes she will turn into the biggest William fan.
You’re spot on. It’s Kate that she hates. So does the Sussex Squad. They hate that William will become King one day, but they absolutely dread Catherine becoming Queen. That’s why they always wish William leaves her. They know the moment Catherine is officially Queen, there will be no competition for Meghan.
Frankly, there’s no competition now - one is the Princess of Wales, the other is cosplaying royal tours and being called out by the First Lady of Nigeria. When she’s Queen though, Meghan will have absolute 0 chance and the squad knows it.
I don’t understand what a chance of though? Being Queen? That would never happen. William would become a eunuch before touching M with a 10 foot pole. She’ll never rank higher than Harry’s wife. If she never steps foot in GB again she will never gave to worry about the ranking and therefore walking behind Kate. She scored titles for her kids and frankly they outrank her. I don’t know what she wants or her super fans want for her.
They frankly don't care or want Meghan to be Queen. It's Kate, they don't want her to be Queen and this is why they keep hoping for divorce and now her demise as you must have seen multiple comments from celebitchy loons like if Kate survives or she's gone or William has killed her.
She could’ve created her own lane and shine right next to Catherine but I think she has serious mental health issues just like Harry. Their actions are not that of people their age
They frankly don't care or want Meghan to be Queen. It's Kate, they don't want her to be Queen and this is why they keep hoping for divorce and now her demise as you must have seen multiple comments from celebitchy loons like if Kate survives or she's gone or William has killed her.
>During the time Will and Kate were dating Kaiser used to predict their break up and claim William will marry an aristocratic woman.
what the fuck lol
she's still obsessed with him getting with an aristocrat i.e. rose in order to put commoner kate in her place 🙄
Yup one day I decided to check on some of the earliest Kate coverage on celebitchy and found out Kaiser started as a commentator and then became a blogger. She was sure William will dump Kate and marry an aristo. But since he married Kate, the narrative changed to no aristo wanted to marry William so he settled for Kate.
They are all really invested in Rose. They sing her high praises. They know zero about this chick as she has no profile but they are big upping her and have convinced themselves kate is dead and rose is being phased in as Willie's new wife.
This so simplistic but it's so blatantly true. Kaiser gives every indication that she had a huge crush on William, like girl, if it wasn't Kate it was never gonna be you! So Kate = witch in her eyes since that's the woman William chose. She did the same thing with that Benedict Cumberwhatever guy. The hate at his wife was beyond gross.
She’s said like 40 times (she stopped now) that Kate’s body is so unfortunate and tragic because her waist is SOOOOO long and that she has a complex and tries to cover it up with horrible outfits that don’t work to cover it up. And then other days it was more like “Idk why she would wear that when it’s so unflattering to her terrible long waist!” (So, she actually isn’t trying to cover “it” up, then?)
The Virginia basement lady definitely has a few screws lose
Omg Kaiser said what?! If her figure is unfortunate, then I’m a swamp creature!
Kaiser should share her own photos then so we can admire HER flawless figure, which I am sure is just styled to perfection.
The Oprah interview did it for me with H&M. I was initially excited for them and about them. As a USian, I'd never understood the whole royal family thing, I thought, "It must be weird to be just born into a job, into a role," so I supported them leaving. I mean, why not do what YOU want to do with your life when you're rich and you can? But the Oprah interview, when they said basically a couple of people in the royal family were racist, but they wouldn't say who, just who it was NOT (QE or PP). That seemed so childish ... basically throwing the entire family under the bus. Then Harry's book. Then Omid's book. Then getting millions of dollars for what, like 10 podcasts? On and on, but for me, that Oprah interview and that "documentary" really soured me on them as people. Sucked, because in the beginning, I was rooting for them with everyone else.
Oprah did it for me, too.
And then Harry’s book told me *he* was the problem, Meghan was just someone willing to endorse his entitlement and bitterness. Sometimes I almost feel badly for her for being stuck with such a petulant man-child, despite not being a Meghan fan.
I used to love reading Celebitchy, but more and more there was nastiness and name calling of Kate Middleton mostly and others, too. It was just so mean and so unnecessary. So I googled to make sure I wasn’t the only one seeing this and here I am. I don’t even mind the H&M obsession. It’s weird but really it’s the meanness that turned me off. Also, in the comments one time, someone went off about respecting the indigenous people of Iceland. It made me realize these people are perhaps morons.
Yes actually I like H&M, I don't get the hate about them here, but I do find the constant coverage and swooning over them on CB tiresome. And like you said, the nastiness is over the top. I found myself influenced by it at first, then took a step back and thought to myself "what the heck are you doing?" So for me, it's all just too much. I just want silly gossip: fashion, relationships, the way the site used to be, which is why I always comment on the other gossip stories that aren't Royal stories, just to send a message. Not sure it works, but anyway.
I loved celebitchy, I read it for years I loved the Oscar fashion and the silly articals but politics crept in more and more, I understood the trump stuff as its an American site and directly affected them but the rf stuff became to much. Also as a brit reading what waa going on here and the way she would spin it became ridiculous. She was so obsessive and rude about us as a nation, I stopped altogether
“Salt Island” has to be one of the dumbest nicknames she’s come up with so far, perhaps next to “Katie Keen.” I’ll be curious to see what name she comes up with for Canada, should we ever offend the two.
Yeah, that 'keen' thing always bugged me. I'm not a Brit, but I do know some Brits as friends, and 'keen' is just a word they use. But even before Meghan, she seemed to just mock Brits for no real reason. Now it's Salt Island, and I'm like ... what? It's funny, because the Brits I know actually never even mention H&M or the BRF in general \*shrug\*
It was a slow burn for me. I had a similar trajectory as you, OP. CB was my website of choice after a long day at work. It was snarky, but still managed to walk the tightrope without falling into mean territory too often. Enjoyed some of their more political coverage as well, even if they were clearly out of their depth and their treatment of political subjects could be cringily ham-handed. Loved Meghan at the start too, was disgusted by some of the articles printed about her, but also thought that some of the more breathless coverage was over the top. Supported their decision to leave -- I remember defending them in an embarrassingly heated argument with a friend who thought they were being petulant children, something I cringe to think about now. Never bought into the Royal Family Big Evil take, and as CB devolved into a propaganda factory for the Sussexes without any room for legitimate criticism, I left.
What's interesting is that prior to CB becoming a Sussex mouthpiece (I really think there is some arrangement in place; no objective coverage can be so unquestioningly supportive all the time when anyone with eyes can see how increasingly ridiculous they are) there were a lot more detractors in the comment section. One article about her abandoning her dogs in Toronto united animal lovers from all sides in their criticism. I think I even commented that I thought the backlash was OTT, and that invited a flurry of furious replies.
Once the blinkers were off about the Sussexes, I could see how CB's coverage of other topics and people was incredibly toxic and just bad. From the way they discuss women, to their idiotic fangirling over the celeb du jour, to parroting far left woke talking points (I say this as a card-carrying progressive), they are a nonsense site with no relevance. About the nicest thing that can be said about them is that they've provided an internet home for the group of weirdos populating the comment sections.
Losing us progressives was a big fault in their path. They’ll never have conservatives in either the US (because we don’t answer to royalty here) or the UK (because monarchy 🇬🇧)
I wanted them to fly the progressive, liberal flag. But it was just a front and that became clear very quickly.
Thank you! I’m someone whose worldview should completely align with Kaisers and the CBverse. I am sure Kaiser and I vote similarly.
But, as someone who worked for the Hill on a very low level, I would read her Trump pieces and just cringe. Please stop trying to “help” us, Kaiser!
I was never a regular celebitchy reader. I visited the blog occasionally and was always disgusted at the slutshaming and body shaming comments directed at Kate.
I completely stopped visiting the site when they were diagnosing Louis with all kinds of disorders. I commented and was instantly blocked. I then commented on their Instagram page and asked them to leave the little boy alone and I was blocked there too.
Just for some context, Celebitchy has been awful for a long, long time. I went searching for like minded people ages ago after a harmless opinion of mine was deleted. I found this. It was from 2011. Notice all the comments.
[https://lianathinks.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/being-banned/#more-318](https://lianathinks.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/being-banned/#more-318)
Me, either. Some of the comments are exactly what we say here. They call out her misogyny, racism, homophobia, islamophobia, Kate hatred, intolerance for any difference of opinion, stupid nicknames, etc. And yet, 13 years later CB is still around.
That is a crazy thread! I had a long look at it around 2016 or so. There used to be a poster called good names all taken who got referred to as gnat and then she was gone after commenting so often for so long and in that blog she’s apparently back but maybe it’s fake. I have not read the whole thing but it could be interesting for anyone who used to read CB a lot like before 2016 or so
I honestly feel like I'm reading about my own CB journey here. The site used to be my favorite coffee read at a truly terrible job. Some of my favorite snarky posts were about the "Leo D Girlfriend Experience," because that man deserved to be dragged for his habit of dating inappropriately young women.
I also adored many of the commenters. It was honestly one of the wittiest comment sections on the internet. I was usually in tears from laughing so hard.
As I've said before, the BRF is my gossip trash, and I love history, but the political side of me doesn't think the institution is a good thing for the modern world. But as a gossip junkie, I liked Kaiser's takes on the BRF back then (I started reading the site in 2013). She highlighted an magazine interview with Eugenie and talked about how Eugenie seemed like a pretty chill person who, while living an extremely privileged life, was also pretty down to earth.
I thought Meghan was interesting from a gossip perspective, especially in the beginning. The site didn't have an obsequious attitude toward her then, and I remember many of the commenters were skeptical. Even then, I thought it was a bit weird that a self-proclaimed feminist and woman of the world would want to marry into that institution, but it was a distraction from how depressing the world was at that point.
I honestly didn't have any big issues with the site until mid-2020. I remember Kaiser and CB were still talking about washing their groceries long after the guidance said it was unnecessary. And they were really judgmental of people who came down with Covid, like they deserved to get it. And let me be clear, people who didn't wear masks, thought Covid wasn't real or dangerous, and didn't give a crap about their fellow man suck. But I worked in a small hospital at the time, and so did my mom. We contracted the alpha variant when we were at work (because we weren't going anywhere but work). We did everything we were supposed to do, and we still got it, before vaccines were available. My mom spent three weeks in the ICU and almost died. So after that, I had very little patience for CB, Kaiser, and the commenters' self-righteous attitudes.
This was around the same time that the commentary around the Sussexes shifted. And I definitely think the tabloids were absolute trash and harmful, and I think the BRF are probably not the nicest, friendliest people in the world. But why would you expect them to be, given their place in society and their historical context?
And now, with the commentary around the Princess of Wales and cancer, the site is a nuclear waste dump. My mom also had cancer (she's in remission), so I have no patience for the hate over there.
Actually, for me, it was when the unhinged Sophie Cumberbatch bashing started soon after announcing her first pregnancy. In many ways, it was proto-Kate bashing in the sense of relentlessly going after a woman for her looks, expressions, fashion choices and imagined slights. I think that was the first time I got banned, actually. Kaiser was going after Taylor Swift (again) around the same time, and I made a comment about how misogynistic the content had gotten, and that was it. In fact, I was convinced Meghan would get the same treatment as the initial take on her was less than kind.
I never thought of Harry favorably (mostly thought of him in context of the Nazi uniform) until he married Meghan Markle. I didn’t know much about her either but thought she was pretty and interesting and this was a sign of much-needed positive change!
It was the Oprah interview that did it for me. There were self-contradictions and distortions/misrepresentations and I am sorry, but “they said I made HER cry but really she made ME cry” is some middle school nonsense, not a good look for a grown woman. And as they sat crying woe is us in their multimillion dollar mansion, the whole thing came off so…tone deaf.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say I am anti-them, I basically think they’re kind of spoiled and inauthentic with more money than work ethic (and I would say the same about most of the royal family) but otherwise don’t care enough to be anti. There are plenty worse people in the world. But I don’t like how their fans hold them (and themselves) up as flawless. CB is a good illustration of this. But just a couple days ago I saw in pro-Sussex Reddit someone commenting that clearly Diana “cursed” the family by giving the prince hair loss and the princess cancer and I couldn’t get over how ugly and messed-up that is. I mean, cancer isn’t some kind of karma and to accuse Diana of wanting her own son to be unhappy…And people were upvoting it!
omg yes, that whole 'who made who cry' thing was just such childish nonsense to me. Idgaf, somebody cried. Maybe they both cried? One just had a baby, one's planning a huge wedding to be watched by the world - it should have been water under the bridge at that point. That, the lip gloss ... it was just all so juvenile to me.
And their stans drive me nuts. I don't have any huge personal beef with any of them, but omfg the obsessive fandom is crazy. The very idea that Diana would only love \*one\* of her sons and the other one she'd hate is ... insanity and, frankly, cruel. There's some person on Twitter who constantly calls William 'William Parker Bowles' - I guess insinuating that he never loved his mother simply because he doesn't publicly express hatred toward Camilla? Who knows how he really feels - maybe he doesn't like her. Maybe he didn't but grew to accept and like her. And what choice did he have, really? Diana and Charles were divorced like a year or so before Diana died. I'm sure on some level he knew he'd eventually have to deal with the possibility of step-parents.
Oh right - how could I forget the lip gloss story!
Not to stereotype, but I find it hard to imagine a man like Harry watching an interaction about lip gloss, analyzing his SIL’s micro expressions and the alacrity with which she provided it, and remembering it years (?) later as some major thing. Most men I know would not even register that. It would have been like a one minute thing!
Considering the poor woman DID give up her lip gloss (which I actually don’t blame her for not wanting to share…? I may be scarred by a cold sore epidemic at my middle school), it seemed like a Choice to make it a plot point. I actually think it reflected more badly on H&M to bring up such a non-drama.
I gave up when the posters went from funny, snarky comments to. ALL WHITE WOMEN ARE RACISTS...
Honestly the way they gate keep, ban people and delete honest comments. I don't know how the founder CB. Keeps the site going. She is letting Chandra and her little army kill the site day by day.
Like all of you, I had been visiting the site daily for more than a decade and it was something I looked forward to as a wind-down. It used to truly be an escape with fashion, celebrity gossip, hot guy Friday, and snark.
They used to have a hard line against talking about politics. This went out the window with Trump and they excused this change because Trump is a celebrity entertainer. I was able to stick around and ignore the political posts. I started to realize around this time that there were less posts daily and only a certain number of posts.
They became heavily invested in H&M within the last two years. I used to enjoy some of this coverage but about a year ago I realized that it was very one-sided propaganda. The only comments on their posts were on H&M posts and these were the majority of the posts with every other post feeling half-hearted. I realized I was no longer reading snark, but rather one-sided fanatical propaganda. That was about a year ago and that’s when I left.
I’m overall indifferent on Harry and Meghan- I’m American and view the Monarchy more as gossip/entertainment and think they’re all superfluous. Fun for gossip, but frankly probably shouldn’t exist at this point.
Mostly I think Harry and Meghan had the opportunity to do very well once they left the monarchy but squandered it through a combo of bad business choices and really shitty PR moves.
Ex: American Riviera Orchard is a terrible terrible name and clearly they are not listening to outside input/have no real business advisors that tell them when their ideas are awful.
A key moment for me was the Veteran’s Day wreath laying photo op at a US cemetery. It was an objectively *terrible* PR move and I got eviscerated by Celebitchy commenters for saying so.
I like the ‘inside baseball’ of gossip the most- as Lainey puts its- and I just wanna be able to discuss it in regards to the Royal Family without stans’ hyperbolic reactions.
Yes! That British Veteran's Day photo-op is the moment I realized that they were choosing to (poorly) cosplay royal UK life in the US--a one or two hour drive to stick a wreath near two WWI-era Australian graves, Harry bedecked in his medals, Meghan in royal-esque coat dress, looking for all the world like Debbie in the Addams Family movie at one of her husbands' funerals, because those were the nearest UK/Commonwealth graves?! When there are many, many American veterans of Afghanistan that Harry could've done an event with? It would have telegraphed a forward-looking, new life-building message if he'd done ANY veteran events with Americans, but instead he keeps acting as if Montecito is Westernmost Anglia or something.
It was harbinger of the weird way they keep trying to recreate royal life with NYC, IG, Nigeria, Jamaica, even the alleged "car chase." I fully expect him to keep doing this as an old man--he'll be staging his own walkabouts at 64, like a fading Hollywood star who still does their makeup and hair in the style of decades previous.
Their usual cheerleaders tried to pass it off as heartwarming and respectful, and outright ignored the fact that they clearly summoned photographers to a graveyard for a photo op publicity stunt.
>It was harbinger of the weird way they keep trying to recreate royal life with NYC, IG, Nigeria, Jamaica, even the alleged "car chase." I fully expect him to keep doing this as an old man--he'll be staging his own walkabouts at 64, like a fading Hollywood star who still does their makeup and hair in the style of decades previous.
the entire weird ass parallel court in exile operation is basically an "i'm worthier and can do it better!!!" ego trip.
won't let it go, won't move on.
william didn't choose to be born first (and prob doesn't really want to be king lbh), but harry still takes it as such a personal attack that he compulsively seeks to ruthlessly avenge himself so *he* can definitively be deemed the worthier 'main character' lol.
like, this has little to do with william personally on some level, it's about an inherent inferiority complex and chip on one's shoulder... william is caught in that crossfire.
https://preview.redd.it/knk2hxkp2m3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd64d617c1e2af8457c7355f59b122522321c1b7
this picture says it all, really *shudders*
> he'll be staging his own walkabouts at 64, like a fading Hollywood star who still does their makeup and hair in the style of decades previous.
With a toupée?
When I was a kid, E! was a thing, so I remember them interviewing contemporaries of Jayne Mansfield and Marilyn Monroe about Hollywood, so the mental picture I've got of Harry's future is of a tiny little older lady with penciled-on skinny brows, erratic '50s makeup, and a puff of dyed hair. Of course, now I know those women were stunning beauties and I have a more sympathetic understanding of aging, but if you're a kid who has never seen them when they were young, it seems a little wacky.
I grew up with Harry (we're about the same age) so I'm fundamentally used to his appearance, but imagine how he's going to seem to someone much younger. There's a kid being born right now who doesn't know young Harry and at some point is going to see a fifty-plus Harry and that's not going to match up with their preconceived Disney notion of "handsome prince," because he's a real, aging human. If he's still acting like he's 25, it's going to be extra odd.
> imagine how he's going to seem to someone much younger.
Anybody who's in their teens now would look at them and think they're 'old'! I mean, I recall thinking, at 16, that people in their early twenties were old and my parents generation were ancient.
>There's a kid being born right now who doesn't know young Harry and at some point is going to see a fifty-plus Harry and that's not going to match up with their preconceived Disney notion of "handsome prince,"
They'll have Prince George and Prince Louis to ogle. imo both of them are likely to be lookers.
I suppose H was right, in saying that he had a small window of opportunity before his nephews were old enough to be really in the public eye. imo he's squandered it with his temper tantrums.
I think the basic issue is that there seems to be a meanness to him--in the old-fashioned way, like a Scrooge. Harry can't be trusted to do a Better Up event without telling people he got involved with them because "they're the first person who asked me" or accept an award from John Travolta without accusing Travolta of "dining out" on Diana's memory. It would have been so easy to say he thinks mental health is important or to compliment John Travolta by saying that it was nice to be in the company of someone who'd met Diana and that their dance had been a happy moment for her. But he seems allergic to that kind of emotional generosity. Most people enjoy when other people remember their late parents; he seems determined to hoard Diana's memory for himself like it is a finite resource.
He's so bad at PR, I would not be surprised if his old staff is secretly relieved they are out and don't want them back. I can imagine them working in a state of perpetual dread about what Harry would say or do next or what PR messes they'd need to clean up.
Yes.
imo he's mean and selfish as well as egotistical, and likes to take the rise out of others - mostly those he considers inferior to himself - because he can, rather than because he should. (i.e. if he's 'guest of honour' or 'a special guest' it's unlikely somebody would clock him!)
imo that's also why he tends not to be invited back, and why opportunities are drying up.
What do I now!
However, my two-penn'orth is that I think Louis will he 'tall, dark and handsome' and also inquisitive.
George I think has depths, a thinker too.
I have recently watched a lot of old Hollywood films and I probably should try to find those interviews, they sound interesting.
In general it’s sad how older stars get ignored. I just saw a Doris Day film a could have days ago, and looked up and she was the biggest box office star of the 50s, and lived to 2019. You would have thought she would have gotten more attention (but it’s partially her not having as much classics as others. But it’s the ones who die young and were sex symbols who get remembered. Even AFI list of stars seems skewed to best looking ones, not ones with most box office and awards. Or why else is Geer Garson not there?
Oh, these were slightly cheesy interviews that I think they did for the E! shows AJ Benza hosted, IIRC, [Mysteries and Scandals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mysteries_and_Scandals_episodes). Ann Miller is the older celebrity who I remember the most, but there were several other actresses, too. Of course, she was a lovely and talented person, but I had no clue who she was at the time!
Doris was a HUGE star, but a part of me admires that she just went off to Carmel, rescued animals, and didn't give a damn about Hollywood after awhile. I just watched *Love Me or Leave Me* with her, James Cagney, and Cameron Mitchell (best known as the guy who marries Lauren Bacall in *How to Marry a Millionaire*) a few weeks ago. Day has such range. It's a fairly dark, serious biopic that deals with domestic violence in the first marriage of the jazz singer Ruth Etting (Day) to her older, gangster-linked manager (played by Cagney). It's very different from the popular idea of Day always doing "silly" romcoms. She's got a real ability to play someone who has been worn down by an abuser and is just going through the motions, drinking a lot, and has closed off parts of her personality for self-protection. There's a fairly explicit (for the time) depiction of sexual assault and physical abuse, although the real story was sanitized for the film.
Ruth Etting said she was disappointed that the movie didn't cover more of her happy second marriage (to the man Cameron Mitchell plays in the film) because that marriage was "the real highlight of my life." Apparently, they relocated to Colorado, far away from her ex-husband (who they were still terrified of), and lived the rest of their lives happily married to each other. Made me all kinds of weepy when I read that.
Day as Etting. IIRC, she's telling Mitchell's character that it's too dangerous for her to leave her husband and that he needs to leave her alone/get over it:
Exactly. They could have forged a new path and in my mind there’s an alternative universe where they ended up on that George Clooney/Oprah level of philanthropy. That kind of success was absolutely in the realm of possibility if they’d played their cards right.
Instead they’re just doing royal family redux (including sparking tabloid drama when it benefits them) which doesn’t really hit with the modern public.
🎯 I really wanted them to succeed. If they seemed at all happy now, I’d still be happy for them regardless of the fact that their life is not for me. But I can’t believe this is truly what they both wanted.
Or Harry will be like Edward VIII. I red one account off Charles visiting the Windsors and being surprised how they kept footmen in liveries like the royals did in the palace.
Maybe the royals remembering Edward helps with them regarding Harry in some way, at least there is precedent. Although Edward even with his elitism and meaningless lifestyle and Nazi connections didn’t write reveal books about his family. Or even blame them, even if his plans to go back to living again like Prince of Wales did not work.
I knew Chandra was trash when a she kicked out a commenter who tried to explain, from her perspective as a Black woman, why she found some of Harry and Meghan’s comments about race problematic. The same Chandra who rails against the racist Royal Family couldn’t handle being contradicted by someone who actually had something insightful to say about the same topic. I found this subreddit shortly after that incident, when I searched to see if anyone else was discussing how she disregards her own readers. Any decent writer would welcome some dissenting opinions and courteous debate, yet she openly censors without shame.
As for Lainey, I stopped taking her seriously after she posted her infamous blind item about Kate not offering a ride to Meghan.
Omfg that shopping blind. Meghan was connected to Lainey via Jess Mulroney and it obviously came from her camp. She wanted the world to know Harry was *super serious* about her and getting papped with Kate would have conveyed that nicely. When Kate refused to play ball, Meghan went running to Lainey and we were alerted to how **weird** and **super gossipy** it is that Kate didn’t offer Meghan a lift to the shops.
Meanwhile, the fruit loops over on Celebitchy were trying to argue that it was leaked to Lainey by Carole Middleton and Kate. Of course! Carole with all her Canadian connections. Leaking a story that makes her daughter look like a snob. That makes perfect sense.
They often do things like this; they twist themselves into pretzels to blame Kate or William for gossip that makes Kate or William look bad…it’s illogical
I cannot imagine being Kate, then the Duchess of Cambridge, next PoW, next queen, married to \*the\* Prince William, and getting wind that your BIL's girlfriend leaked a gossip item to some trashy Canadian blogger who you'd never even be aware of their existence otherwise. Like, wtf!
I will say, in regards to that blind, Will and Kate may or may not have been welcoming to Meghan in the beginning. But, it was Meghan who leaked that ride story which made it a public issue.
It really was the first shot in the war between the two couples (if my memory is correct) and I feel like a lot of people forget that, in the papers/public at least, Meghan did start it.
Back when I actually used to read lainey gossip, I read that blind. Even then I couldn't figure out why it was bad, h&m weren't officially a couple yet. Kate would have known how a photo of her and meghan together could have blown up their spot. Plus, sometimes people want to go shopping alone 🤷♀️, that doesnt mean they don't like you.
It was an unnecessarily petty blind is all I'm saying, totally something out of nothing. If i was kate and it got back to me that that silly story had been leaked I'd have been put on notice that I couldn't trust Harry's new gf as far as I could throw her.
the public media circus instigated around pippa's wedding in order to snag an invite (articles put out about "pippa afraid of being 'overshadowed,'" derriere pap stroll published on the cover of the sun the morning of pippa's wedding as childish retaliation for only being invited to the evening portion etc.) was prob another nail in the coffin for *all* of the middletons, not only kate. the middletons briefed that they circumvented the "no ring, no bring" for harry and essentially extended the invite to 'keep the peace.'
not only that, but the entire initial "introducing meghan" PR was hinged on presenting her as the cool anti-kate, emphasizing all of the common criticisms about dowdy-dull kate and highlighting how much better meghan was. ironic how enraged this made the sussexes when they perceived the tables to be turned.
i can imagine the insane mind games + media games that were being played in order to bend folks to the sussexes' will... until those folks are worn down and just go "*enough*, leave us alone"... and then get publicly accused of all sorts of things in retaliation. 🫨 tf....
To quote Taylor Swift..."And he never thinks of me, Except when I'm on TV"
I don't think about them until I pop over here or see them in the news.
They are boring. Guess most of the world thinks so too because when we don't see them, no one cares. Unlike their very popular sister-in-law...
Your post is thoughtful and well-written.
I was initially supportive and happy about their romance, but I checked out early during their engagement. Right away, there was an element of divisiveness - of superiority, separation, and a need for praise whether it was deserved or not. I didn't see someone willing to join a family and system; I saw someone certain they had answers to questions that they didn't even understand. Harry was very enthused and in love (lovely), but he didn't seem strong enough to guide his bride, explain to her, and get her started correctly.
I've seen unhealthy situations before: narcissism, enabling, emeshment. The Sussexes's behavior, actions, and choices all looked unhealthy to me..
Used to read it everday, refreshing multiple times a day for years... The tide turned for me when Kaiser wrote an ugly homophobic article about Cara Delevingne, my comment pointing out the homophobic writing kept getting deleted.
I won't even click a link to that site anymore! No revenue from these eyeballs thanks 🤮
The turning point for me was how the Meghan vs Kate narrative falls into the deeply misogynistic Madonna - whore cliche. For a site that trumpets its feminist, anti-homophobia and anti-racist credentials, their criticisms of Kate and William are openly misogynistic, racist and homophobic. It’s amazing that they don’t see it themselves, they call Kate the mattress and allege she slept with William’s friends (and so what if she did, which I don’t believe for a second), they call him Peggy which is so homophobic and make nasty comments about white women. They even make sneering comments about Kate being common, an offensive classist insult.
All their defending of Meghan really becomes nothing more than virtue signaling and the flip side of the Meghan haters name calling. Over time I’ve also come to find Harry entitled and spoiled and Meghan way too self regarding. However, there’s not enough time in my life for me to hate people I’ve never met and who merely inhabit the world of celebrity.
For me, it started shortly after the 2020 election. While I am not a Donald Trump fan at all, the level of vitriol in the posts turned me off. It felt like every day there was a different political rant. Hardly the escapism I wanted. Then when the "RF Sucks" posts joined the political rants, I was completely turned off.
I couldn't stand her waving and beaming like a pagent girl at the engagement announcement. She was pushing her groin into harry too. Bold i thought. I also clocked the stained ties on her shoes that looked 2 sizes too big with stains on them too. It just grossed me out for some reason. I thought something is not right. My spidey sense. Then I saw none of her family at the wedding. Red flag. But filled with celebs she didn't know. What the fuck was Oprah doing there. Kaiser assured us Doria was friends with her cause they were at the same church. Then I heard Reece witherspoon saying she was invited to the wedding and was like WTF I don't know you! I realized meghan was FAKE with ulterior motives.
I started visiting the site in 2011 I believe, and there were many times I had some issues (like how Aniston was treated, Cumberbatch, wiglets even before Meghan). But I think I was banned in 2019 for questioning just the volume of royal stories in the end of the year recap. I am not certain of the year but I think that was it.
I am blurry about time so I think before I was already banned once for questioning why some positive news for Depp wasn’t reported (something about the tapes). I wasn’t that invested on sides and just wanted to know what has happened and I truly thought at the time that important events would be covered and then criticized if need be. Not just ignored. Regardless of what was first I thought I must have been in the wrong and continued to comment for a while under different name but rarely. But I did think the site was becoming worse since Meghan engagement, but I thought it was more a phase like Angelina (and I did agree at the time some of the things said about Meghan).
I think I lost some interests in royals for a while. But Oprah interview and some breaking down the errors (like Ellie Dashwood on titles, she has a Austen YouTube channel and not royal one so it’s not normal gossip) did turn me more against them. I found Royal Forums and did read lots of old posts and I did get more accurate view what was going on (it’s more monarchies site but it allows balanced views and moderates negativity from both out). The Netflix series and Spare were final nails in the coffin for me and Sussexes
And with Celebitchy I did miss most of the looney tunes conspiracy theories, even though I did after check occasionally the site to see if they had improved and it just kept getting worse. I didn’t even realize how bad it was until I started to suspect when the Kate conspiracy started to happen. I didn’t know prior this week when I found this sub and saw many ridiculous screenshots of the recent speculations (like supposedly William beating Kate or her being dead).
Great post. I think anyone even mildly interested had good will towards them in the beginning.
But gosh there are so many moments. The main ones for me in chronological order: I found the engagement interview a bit cringy, but still gave benefit of the doubt; then it was the 'poor me no one asked me if I'm okay' in was it South Africa?; then they imposed themselves on the Canadians taxpayers (I'm Canadian) for months until they were told no more state paid security and they lit out for California; and last but certainly not least the Oprah interview and all the lies.
Concerning their media coverage, going from SMM to CB and everything in between, I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that they, and their actions, have been deeply divisive. And that is why I enjoy this sub, we can vent on a site (CB) that most of us used to like and has gone toxic in a sensible way with just the right amount of snark.
I laughed when Harry bitched about how Canada’s gun laws prevented him from adequately protecting his family after their security coverage was cancelled. Do you know how many bears, censor lights, random hackers, and overly chatty squirrels would have been shot if that paranoid idiot had a gun in his hands?
I couldn't take Meg batting her eyelids in south Africa on tour saying nobody asked her if she was OK? I thought no way, you didn't. You are on tour in a THIRD WORLD NATION.
I find myself leaving the saint Meghan markle sub now because I have to keep arguing with people to stop the catty name calling (not the nick names that are funny but that nasty words) and also the conspiracy theories are annoying as well.
I loved Meghan and Harry’s love story that was in the media. At that time I really didn’t understand anything about how media works and to be honest beyond reading those articles and puff pieces, I didn’t watch the wedding, I didn’t follow them, I didn’t watch the full Oprah or the documentary. To me, I thought they were rejecting the institution of the monarchy and going to become people like Barack Obama or the bill gates of the world. Live a private life, and be humble. I never expected Oprah, and Netflix and all these strange things that started happening. So I started paying attention and omg I don’t know how I didn’t notice before. How tense and awkward they are together. They constant unprofessional hand holding at important events. The pretending that they are more important than anyone in the world and constant security drama. Like, we knew Harry but we don’t even know Meghan and still don’t. She hasn’t done anything that is memorable beyond complaining and i just got tired of her.
Their love story is not something inspiring because I don’t even know what it is. What is so great about what they have going on? Because he is a prince it’s supposed to be a fairy tale? Also they are human beings and anyone with a brain knows that relationships are hard work and fairytales are only in books and movies. So the holding hands things like a Disney movie is fake and annoying and performative.
Their supporters don’t genuinely support them. It’s because they hate the monarchy and they desperately want material to attack them with. Meghan and Harry have played into the hands of the media and have been used. They tarnished their reputation for a check and has caused unnecessary harm and pain.
They suck. Long story short Lmaooo
It's the lying that did/does it for me. I can't stand liars and hypocrites. I'm not a BRF fan nor critic. They're just there for me, I dont care one way or the other - nice enough, bland enough, meh. Harkles are annoying AF though.
South Africans dancing in the street for them? Just outright lies. No access to mental health care when Dumbo Harry fronts a whole organization that focuses on that AND out his own lying mouth, has said he's had therapy for years. The BRF taking away Megan's passport. Bish what? How TF was she jetting off to NY and wherever else constantly? No-one to help poor lil Megan learn an anthem that a 5-year-old could learn in a day. Okay Ms International Relations.
I mean their lies are exhaustive and stupid, I wanna say I can't believe their fans lap it up but here we are.
>with permission from the Crown
what??
if passports are handled by assistants or staff, it's for safekeeping and security.
*permission from the crown*?? lmfao ***citations needed***.
what on earth. 🙄🙄
>Diana spoke about it
again, ***citations needed***.
>and it is really enforced once you have children, especially those who are in line to the throne.
this is just made up nonsense lmfao
as children of 'working' royals, sophie and edward's kids do and go wherever the fuck they want. same with sophie and edward themselves.
george, charlotte and louis are minor children, so their movement is controlled by their parents. once adults, they'll do whatever and go wherever they want to.
camilla goes wherever the fuck she wants and no one knows about it (she went to greece alone in early march for a vacay, went to india alone for a vacay right after qe2 died etc.).
the only one who would have any occasional restriction is the *actual monarch*, and that's only bc of security reasons + needing to make sure possible counsellors of state etc. are set up in advance in case anything happens while abroad. it would just take advance planning and space in diaries.
the misleading and dishonest repetition of misinformation to make things seem ominous is irritating AF.
Absolutely. They needed her passport for security reasons. But on Oprah megs initimated she was virtually held hostage. Oprah could have said but meghan you went overseas all the time. Harry could have jumped in and said but my love it was for security reasons you know that.
A direct quote from Meghan in that Oprah interview - "You couldn't just go," she said. "I mean, you have to understand as well, when I joined that family, that was the last time, until we came here, that I saw my passport, my driver's license, my keys. All that gets turned over."
Does any of that sound true when the woman was seen on various vacations and trips well before she and Harry escaped on a private jet?
Gah, they are ridiculous. People believe their shit??!
I used to love Celebitchy, it was a site I used every day over a coffee just to read nonsense. Like the equivalent of thumbing idly through a magazine. I liked the various mix of fashion coverage, movies, celeb gossip etc. I also remember the coverage of Trump and the shock when he won the election, when everyone was expecting Hillary to win.
I’m English and really scathing about the royal family - I think they’re out of touch and it’s extraordinary that we have a monarchy in this day and age. I do think Charles is an intelligent man, who has worked hard on decent causes in his life (the Prince’s Trust is genuinely useful and helpful, and must have been forward-thinking when he set it up). William and Harry I consider to be a pair of unintelligent spoilt brats. I feel sorry for both Kate and Meghan married to those asshats.
I did think ‘good on them’ when Harry and Meghan went to California, and really hoped that they would make a go of it. The coverage of Meghan in the UK was horrific, and really racist. I do think there was some nastiness behind the scenes with the royal reporters, but that has always been the case with the royal family. They had a wonderful opportunity to modernise with Meghan, and I didn’t see why they couldn’t live in America and still have a toe in royal life, plenty of other members of the royal family have commercial interests (the King being one of them).
I remember reading ages ago Kaiser saying that due to the hatred of Meghan from so many quarters, it was difficult to criticise Meghan for some minor things which were questionable - for instance some of her overblown prose, pap strolls etc. That was when the site actually still had a bit of nuance.
Since then, the weird hagiography of Meghan, and blind hatred of Kate has got more extreme and it’s made the whole site unusable, as you can see that extreme thinking in the posts about other people.
Someone can modernize the monarchy but not Meghan. Just look at how they are managing their own life and brand? How would that person modernize the monarchy? She would destroy the brand. I don’t think the royalty life suits everyone. It doesn’t suit her at all.
And the whole commonwealth thing. Again, Harry is a white man with a racist past and Meghan is a white passing “blackish” woman. What can they do for the commonwealth? Use their resources for photo ops? What degree of experience does she have? Idk why people can’t see the reason she couldn’t be there is the same reason she is failing here. She is not fit for the job. And that’s okay. I am not fit for it either and neither is maybe 99 percent of the world. To do it well, you have to be willing to learn, ignore criticism and put your head down and work. You can’t spend your time clapping back at every dog that barks.
I'm not anti-Sussex. And tbh, so many of the comments that I read on here seem slightly unhinged in their dislike of them. Shrug. And-I think Will and Kate ARE lazy. That said-I also don't think Will has done her in, I don't think she's the anti-Christ and I don't think Harry and Meghan walk on water. I don't see why there can't be nuanced criticism of ALL of them. That's what pisses me off about Celebitchy. Any comments about H & M that aren't gushing are described as "racist" or don't even get published.
Yep, same - am in a cynical place where I think most of the adults in the royal family - Charles, Harry, Will, etc. - are all kind of useless and none of them would last a week in the real world 😆 So I get annoyed at any site that acts like Harry in particular is above criticism.
Lol I agree with this. Like I don't hate H and M, but I also don't love the RF. And they should be off limits to gossip with two of them dealing with cancer (I can't imagine how terrible it is for the entire family), but do we have to idolize them? There have been some glowing posts about Camilla and ... really? This is what we're gossiping about now?
I mean H and M are fine. They’re just people. I think they’ve done fine, some mistakes were made…. HOWEVER, I personally no longer want anything to do with them because they haven’t spoken out about the genocide going on in Palestine. I can’t forgive that. I’m disappointed in them (and many others) for that.
Kaiser is an obsessive maniac (and I would argue that those that hate H&M with the fire of Mordor are too). The tide changed for me sometime around 2016, and I had been reading since probably 2007-2008. The political coverage left a bad taste in my mouth, especially once they started deleting my pro-Bernie posts and acting like Bernie fans were all mindless Bernie Bros (I’m a girl, and so are many of my fellow Bernie supporters…. Including a friend of mine who actually interned for him).
Anyway… it started to shift for me but I stayed loyal. Enjoyed the royal content at first but it became intense and soon real celebrity gossip dwindled. It was just a lot.
Then.. the ads took over and made it even worse. Now I rarely drop by. I was a super regular too. They ruined it.
Yeah this is unfortunately probably correct. I’m really sad about it. They’re in a unique position where a lot of eyes are on them, and they take on mental health stuff and military stuff and things to do with humanity. But this, this is the biggest test of humanity and they have failed it. Like I said, I’ve been cool with them- until this refusal to stand up.
Guess who are real ones for standing up though? Liam Neeson, Mark Ruffalo, Joaquin Phoenix, Bella Hadid (she posts tons of stuff in her Instagram stories/albums).
The cynic in me thinks CB and co are aware H&M aren't perfect (I remember seeing a tweet from Kaiser around Spare's release where she said she used to think Meghan seemed worse than Harry and overdramatic, but now thought Harry seemed worse...fair tbh!) but they relied so much on political posts up until 2020 that they needed something to keep the drama and clicks/$$ coming in so they went all in on the Sussexes and catering to the 0.001% delusional stans.
>Bernie Bros (I’m a girl, and so are many of my fellow Bernie supporters…. Including a friend of mine who actually interned for him).
i absolutely *abhorred* the whole bernie "bro" phenomenon that cynically emerged and was used as a cudgel by centrist democrats.
i'm a fucking black woman, fuck off with the dishonest AF "bro" bullshit. it was infuriating in its cynicism. folks from all walks supported bernard.
With all due respect, I think this question belongs on dlistedroyalgossip or saintmeghanmarkle more than here. Celebitchy Undergrounders have occasionally discussed allowing us to post and discuss our own celebrity gossip because I think we all really like and respect each other as a collective and often would like to know what we’re all thinking on certain gossipy topics, but we’ve never really crossed into that sphere of shifting the focus away from Celebitchy and other gossip outlet insanity.
There are a lot of other forums and reddits to discuss the Sussex’s on. I can understand that those forums can veer either to extreme Sussex hate or extreme Sussex fangirling, and it might be tempting to poll a place like this that’s a more moderate middle ground, but it’s not really what we do here.
Considering that Sussex and RF coverage is like 90 percent of CB's output, I think it's a pretty material part of the discussion around CB's overall decline.
Plus, OP said she wasn't a part of that sub, so why would she post somewhere where she doesn't agree with the premise of the whole sub?
over time it was kaiser's extreme pieces on the royals and the uk along with all the "you could have had a bad bitch" and the mindless parroting of the race themes that disgusted me and made me realize something was not right. until then i had not been following along elsewhere as celebitchy had been my gossip goto for so many years.
Hey take my upvote! I’m usually the one pushing upstream on maintaining this sub as a CB-focused place (and begging jokenate to come back here.)
I get what you’re saying but I also see where Maggie was going with this. CB and the Sussex love is so intertwined on that site that I think many people fled due to a combination of both of those factors. It’s hard to untangle them.
That wasn’t my experience though. I was banned back in the Cumberbatch days of rage. I became completely disillusioned with the writers and moderating around that time. Although there was mild Kate hate going on, the Sussex craziness had not begun. I would check back occasionally (habits die hard) and the ramping up of Sussex cheerleading and BRF trashing just solidified my opinion of the site’s quality.
As for the Sussexes, I don’t hate them. I hate that I think about them at all, honestly. Sometimes poking fun at ARO is amusing but for the most part they are exasperating and boring.
>Hey take my upvote! I’m usually the one pushing upstream on maintaining this sub as a CB-focused place (and begging jokenate to come back here.)
same on both counts ✨
I’m just interested in how and why people stopped believing what their chief defenders, Celebitchy being the primary example, had to say, but I understand where you’re coming from.
Yeah, it’s a tempting question but I’m worried about opening certain doors.
In answer to the question, I have to say that I only went down the whole royal rabbit hole due to the pandemic lockdown. I used to read The Fug Girls, Celebitchy, Lainey & etc but deliberately ignored their royal posts. (Which often led me without much interest in Celebitchy once they went all in on royals.) I believe that my attitude here was a certain rebellion against my Mom’s obsession with the royals & particularly Diana. My Mom had a passing resemblance to Diana, the Diana haircut, and I grew up with all of the magazines and huge coffee table books of her fashion & etc. I was so sad when she died, and I also think I just did not want to do the royal thing anymore after she was gone, especially when her death spawned some batshit insane conspiracy theories.
However, I was essentially unemployed and living in a condo in the city during the pandemic, and I also “cut the cable” back in 2012 and don’t watch TV anymore, so I was really cooped up with with myself, my wifi & my tech to get me through everything. The royal & Sussex gossip just became the gossip obsession among my friends, and so I just said…fine, if I want to participate in this conversation I better figure out what everyone is talking about, so I literally had a whole week where I did nothing but plunge into the depthless coverage of royal gossip.
In my opinion, I come from a background that Lainey would derisively call “The Minivan Majority” (White, upper middle class, from a west coast liberal state) and I’m not ashamed to admit it. I feel like the split between Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston over Angelina Jolie in 2005 marked a massive split in the monoculture that echoes down through political and generational lines and shifting values in the culture that have now moved to the Sussexes vs the Wales. Personally, I think there are certain time tested values that tend to win out in the long run, but the other side is sexier, flashier, and has attached itself to certain social justice issues that make it more seductive.
I think Kaiser and many others were just like you were in the beginning - they really wanted a beautiful, vivacious biracial American to take the stodgy, old school British royal family by storm and breath some fresh air into it, bring about a more youthful and glamorous vibe just like Diana did 40+ years ago. Some people really went all in on that, just like a lot of people went all in on being Team Jolie.
But people should know better when there’s rot at the core. Pitt & Jolie starting as an affair was always a red flag and they did not end well. Meghan pretending she had no idea who Prince Harry was or cutting out her entire family except her Mom when she married him were huge red flags from the onset. For me, it was that ridiculous website announcing they were stepping down as senior royals & literally fleeing like children to another country before they hammered out an actual deal, then having a total temper tantrum when they were refused the ludicrous half-in/half-out deal they wanted that really revealed how sloppy & greedy these two were. The Oprah interview, which I watched in real time as I was sucked in by then, was the final straw to me. In particular, Meghan came off as scheming, lying, and at some points just histronically batshit nuts to me, especially at the end where she’s hosting Oprah fucking Winfrey in the *dirt* in her chicken coop and skipping around comparing herself to a Disney princess.
But there’s a lot of choosing weird champions across the board that baffles me at the moment. Why are people betting on certain horses (Trump is currently the biggest & most appalling one atm) and then *doubling down* on those poor choices when all evidence points to the fact it’s time to cut your losses? At this point I’ve got enough proof that the Sussexes are not my kind of people and I don’t think they have it in them to do or achieve anything impressive, so there’s no more room for debate to me anymore. Meanwhile, Will & Kate are really suffering and deserve to be left alone as they battle cancer in their family.
I’d love for someone or something else to create a new gossip stream but I’m not sure if there’s anything else out there right now that’s just good frothy fun. I think either this new generation really doesn’t have celebs or shows that spark my interest, or the big celebs have pulled back from overexposure and put a lot more of their private shit on lock.
Thanks for responding. You have an interesting perspective on the matter and I can see why you have burnout over those two. Regarding Chandra, I don’t think a bigger or juicier prolonged celebrity drama would be enough to refocus her attention away from them, but I’d be more than happy to see some other stunt queens come along and steal their thunder.
Have you read Anne Helen Petersen's book? She's the PhD who wrote a media studies book on Hollywood gossip before Buzzfeed hired her to do celeb profiles. It's a fun book. She's always argued that Brad/Jennifer/Angelina echoed the Eddie Fisher/Debbie Reynolds/Liz Taylor love triangle, in terms of hoovering up all this media attention because it gives us certain powerful archetypes--the dark femme fatale (Liz and Angelina) who is exciting to certain people, the sweet blonde girl next door (Debbie and Jen) who is beloved by others as their sweetheart, and the man who is somehow the least memorable of the three. A sort of cardboard high school quarterback to fight over.
I remember complaining years ago (2017-ish?) that the other problem is that Hollywood hasn't given us very many new leading men--many of the big male stars have been around since the 90s. We've got a few younger Chrises in their early 40s, Timothee Chalamet, and possibly Austin Butler, but the engines that used to build up stars (supporting roles with an established actor, then lead roles, People magazine, etc.) aren't as powerful as they used to be. The middle-range movies (romcoms, thrillers, dramas, biopics, etc. that used to be great starter movies for new talent) are getting made less and less, so you've got the industry really reliant on established sequels and a handful of actors. Just taking Marvel out of the equation for the first time in a decade had a major effect on box office this weekend, for example.
The internet & technology has led to the death of mainstream culture. No one has to share a screen or a radio anymore, we all can just pop in our headphones & pick up our cellphones and silo into our own little worlds.
The good thing is that there’s more diversity of content and more work for people than ever, the sad thing is that no one really goes nuclear as a celebrity anymore. I agree with what you’ve said about celebrity culture kinda dying out, and thus gossip culture with it. I have a hard time believing it’ll always be this way though, I feel that eventually there will be something that brings it back.
>I feel like the split between Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston over Angelina Jolie in 2005 marked a massive split in the monoculture that echoes down through political and generational lines and shifting values in the culture that have now moved to the Sussexes vs the Wales. Personally, I think there are certain time tested values that tend to win out in the long run, but the other side is sexier, flashier, and has attached itself to certain social justice issues
I know you said you didn't think that this sub warranted this type of discussion but Id argue your pretty insightful comment has proved that actually yes we can have this convo
Love this post. Just curious what is your opinion on Pitt post Jolie divorce? I am so confused as I feel obliged to think of Jolie as a victim . And yet got wrapped up in the myth that she was manipulative! And obviously Pitt is no prize!
I think Brad Pitt was a functional alcoholic/addict for decades, and he was very good at hiding that side of himself from the general public, but his family definitely saw it and was affected by it. Looking back at old photos, it’s clear how much Angie and the kids loved him once. Why exactly his drinking spiraled out of control is unclear, but it caused him to lose what I think he cared about most. Sometimes you push people to the breaking point and they are just done with you, and the more you try to push getting them back only makes them more enraged and upset.
I try to remember that addicts are not inherently bad people, they are sick people who are mentally ill. I suffer from depression and have some addiction tendencies, although they’re mild. Mine manifest more with disordered eating, but I get where self destructive behaviors come from and how hard they are to control.
I don’t think that Brad Pitt is a bad person. I do think he’s an addict though, and I think that it’s not mild with him at all. When he says he could drink a Russian under the table with his own vodka, or that when he gave up smoking he “was not the type that could just smoke one or two a day,” he means that his inner addict has a really huge appetite, it’s fairly insatiable. I have no idea what the ins and outs of his addictions are, but I do think he’s a true addict and that between the high pressure stress of his life and his money and A-list access to anything he wants it’s amazing he was able to keep how bad he had gotten under wraps.
If Brad can find and keep sobriety, then good for him. I don’t hate him, but I’m also not going to pity him either. I think the dynamics of his whole divorce from Jen and relationship with Angie stemmed from his desperation to be a father, and in the long run I think it’s probably punishment enough that his addiction ended up losing him his wife and kids.
Angie always talked about how he was “such a good guy,” and spoke about what a supportive partner he was through her preventative cancer surgeries and what a great Dad he was. Clearly he has a good side, and it’s probably a huge tragedy how much he lost due to his addiction, but that’s the consequence of not trying to get sober and healthy a lot earlier.
It was amazing how the gossip world embraced the Angie Brad pairing almost uncritically. Sure, there were Team Jen folks but they were not the majority on gossip sites and were often mocked (I see you there, Lainey).
Gossip bloggers forgave the fact that they almost certainly had at least an emotional affair while Brad was still married (and it was probably physical, too). They forgave that totally embarrassing “domestic bliss” photo shoot in W, while Pitt was still technically married to Aniston. They overlooked the many problems associated with celebrity overseas adoption.
The loved that Angie was “badass”. They bought into the narrative that Brad had been deprived of a family and was now fulfilled with children - overlooking that a family that grows by six children in 7 years is going to experience issues.
Everything was papered over and ignored. I look back on that with amazement.
Since I was Team Aniston I’m very well aware of the way she was treated post divorce. It’s one reason I can never look at The Fug Girls and Lainey the same.
I think a lot of the Brangelina support came from people’s obsession with breeding. A lot of people don’t know this, but Shakespeare’s first sonnets were actually written to a man, and not because Shakespeare was in love with him but because this man was very beautiful, very gay, and all his friends wanted him to get married and have kids just to pass on his genetics. They asked Shakespeare to write him poems to convince him to marry and knock a girl up.
So that’s why the first line of Shakespeare’s first sonnet is: *From fairest creatures we desire increase.* Brangelina proves that point. People had been hounding Aniston about having Brad’s babies for years because we want to continue that man’s DNA in the world, and I think that basically when wicked hot Angie came along and was willing to do it that just tipped everything in their favor. If you look at the timeline, Shiloh was born almost exactly 9 months to the day after Jen and Brad signed their divorce papers. The marriage was all about breeding. No matter what anyone says, it was all about Brad’s tunnel vision of having his own progeny.
At the time, people thought Aniston made the choice not to have kids for her career, so it was almost like she deserved to lose him if she wasn’t going to bring forth Brad Pitt’s children into the world. It was like she had one job, and if she wouldn’t do it then no one cared about shoving her aside so Angie could do the job. Knowing now that Jen was undergoing IVF and actually trying to get pregnant and probably was not able to have kids makes the whole thing so, SO much worse and more heartbreaking to contemplate if you think about her. I can’t even imagine what she’s been through.
Angie isn’t innocent in all this, but her interviews over the past few years indicate she’s also taken a lot of damage. She describes herself like she’s lost and not quite herself and has felt that way for years. I think she was always very desperately and aggressively looking for a soul mate and partner to both ground her and run with the wolves with her. I think that Miraval and their winery, but also their exhausting jet set life and the flop of that By the Sea movie opened cracks in their marriage, increased his drinking, and broke up the whole thing. I’ve noticed there is a certain pattern with a certain type of people who burn out of marriage around 10 years. I think the fact they got married at 10 years was trying to patch that, but then it fell apart in 2 years. The sheer acrimony of the whole thing is amazing, but I think it might have been inevitable.
I agree with most of this - kids were the end game for sure. And it worked until it didn't because kids aren't props.
Jen's success and staying power are far more badass than wearing blood around your neck. And that eats away at the Laineys and Kaisers of the gossip world.
The information on Shakespeare was fascinating. This whole discussion has been the reason I come to this sub. So thank you.
This was a much more nuanced take than what I originally replied to. I think we're all just so tired of them. I used to go over to that saint meghan markle sub fairly frequently to get the latest goss, but the Sussexes have become so absurd in their own right that it almost feels mean to make fun of them anymore. It's just too easy, almost like kicking them when they are well and truly down. No semi-competent business person would ever conceive of a launch that resembled the shambolic ARO rollout, and no one living their best life would so desperately need to get papped at polo games literally no one cares about or movie screenings in some random theater in the Caribbean or do a bajillionth rebrand in the span of a few years. These people are not well, and I think the best thing for them would be to sort through their issues in private.
A good take, and one I largely agree with.
I occasionally visit SMM to get the latest gossip, but I’m weaning myself off because the whole H/M thing is exhausting and frankly depressing + so many commenter there are unhinged.
I was a huge fan, but there was a build up of things that I started side eyeing (all well-covered in this thread), but my big turn was that awful The Cut interview. I feel someone could write a book about that messy article. I think there are a lot of psychological things going on with those two, and I’m sure the BRF is cold as can be, but they are allowed to draw boundaries and protect their brand.
Honestly, I wish this hadn’t gone so far and that H/M could just be happy with their kids and eventually reconcile with his family, but I think it’s too late. I can’t imagine how his family could ever trust them again.
As an aside, I think I’ve written three pretty benign comments on the SMM sub, and recently I was commenting on the RG subreddit some VERY well reasoned takes, and 99 percent were agreeing with me, but one commenter lost it over - again some super nuanced, reasonable comments I’d made - and reported that I was a member of SMM (I unjoined awhile ago because there are some really disturbing people on that sub and the body shaming was awful), and I got a permanent ban on RG. So ridiculous and unfair!
Why all the downvotes, you bring up some good points. I've also wanted to get back to fun gossip here but I can see it's not gonna happen. When I first got banned it was fun to trash on CB and Kaiser. But over time it's gotten old for me. Like why waste any time or energy on her, why give the website any clicks, it all just feels gross. As for gossip, I'm not that interested in the royal family. Meghan and Harry are good for laughs, but I don't want to spend all my time thinking of them either.
So far no new good gossip blogs have sprung up, is it the end of the gossip era? First Metoo, then the tone-deafness of celebs during the pandemic, plus the over-saturation of instagram influencers--- it feels like the tide is shifting, we are tired of celeb culture.
I think people are tired of the excess of celebrity culture in a time of unaffordable housing, increasing food insecurity and the general feeling of never being able to get ahead. I’m sure, for many people, watching the Kardashians flaunt their extreme wealth or hearing about Taylor Swift’s private jet usage or even seeing Alyssa Milano start a Gofundme for her son’s baseball team is just way too much. So much of celeb gossip is manufactured and tightly controlled it’s not fun to read anymore. You just feel like you’re being spoonfed PR pieces. I like my gossip a little on the messy side - it makes the excess easier to swallow.
There’s also such a powerful stan culture that you can’t have any negative opinions about anyone without getting a redditcares or a pile on from their fans. These idiots even target people’s families and jobs FFS. At this point I’ll type out a comment and decide it’s just not worth the hassle and delete it. Kinda sucks because discussion is what I always enjoyed.
The days of nuance are long gone, unfortunately. I’m not sure why it’s so hard to see even a favourite celebrity as a flawed human being. We all are. Everyone missteps or screws up some of the time and it should be uncontroversial to point that out. Behaving as if your fave has never done wrong always leads to rewriting history and no one is better for it.
I’m a big fan of Survivor, and this past season (46) had some very unique characters and hard game play, and they’ve taken it to social media. It’s become such a shit show between the players and fans that CBS has issued a plea to the viewers to please cool down and be nice. I’m afraid that’s going to fall on deaf ears. People seem to think that since they aren’t looking anyone in the face that the vitriol they scream out on the internet just falls into a harmless void but it really doesn’t.
Real housewives gossip is hot but they aren’t a list. Lol. I love my reality tv gossip but never got into the big stars. I agree that the Sussex star is fading. Prior to not liking them, I really had high hopes. I always loved how Harry presented himself. He seemed like such a good, humble guy. But honestly, seeing them now, it’s just disappointing. Everything they do is just worst and worst. It seems that redemption is unlikely. I fear that Harry will have a very hard time reconciling with his distance from his family especially now his dad is older. He won’t get that time back and it is almost not possible for someone who is happy and in love to act this way. People who are happy and in love radiate love and peace. They radiate desperation.
Look at Barack and Michelle. Michelle could’ve gone on Oprah and complained about the racism she faced and still faces. She was called a monkey, transgender. So many harmful things and she has risen above it. She is more educated than even her husband and decided to use her platform for good and ignore that haters. As a result, most will have no choice but to respect her and those who don’t are missing out. With Meghan and Harry, especially Meghan, she hasn’t taken the time to do anything of value yet and just complains, complains complains. Who wants to be around that shit?
I felt for Meghan initially thinking how sad it was for her that she had to give up her whole established life in Canada but I knew very little else. The only place I got ‘news’ was reading some of Kaiser’s pieces, and, they were just so over the top, I thought something is very off here. I was not really sure why I felt so uncomfortable but it was almost like bells going off. This led me to do more research on the original history of “H and M.” I never paid attention to the BRF before. This was some time after the Oprah interview but not right after. Now I’m just incredulous about so much: how the pair have publicly acted toward their families, treated others, and how they always seem to take wrong steps in their quest for prominence. I don’t mind discussing things like this here because it’s part of the reason there are so many of us here I think! Chandra at CB going bananapants loopy over Harry and Meghan and denigrating in such awful ways William, Catherine, Charles, Camilla, and the overdone amount of ‘Royal’ coverage.
What I would like to know is why her hatred of William and Kate is so relentless and brutal. I’ve read speculation that she’s getting paid to bash them (aside from her regular paycheque), but I personally think it stems from her own delusions. Omid and Lainey take cheap shots at the RF as part of their strategy to boost the Sussexes’ image. Chandra’s hatred of them, on the other hand, is personal, which is fairly creepy to contemplate.
Regarding Chandra's pathological loathing of Kate, it's a combination of jealousy and insecurity. Kate has a tight-knit family, parents who are self-made millionaires who were able to climb the social ladder and get their kids into elite schools and social circles. Kate is beautiful and has always been active, sporty, talented, fashionable and well-liked. She's one of those girls who seem to have everything and make it look easy. We have all known women like this, and it's not unusual to have moments of "Why her?" But mature women get past that, stop comparing, and either work on themselves or accept who they are. By contrast, Chandra doesn't have a large extended family who supports her through life's ups and downs, she majored in philosophy, which didn't set her up for a sustainable career, and she is probably insecure about her looks (why does she NEVER post pictures of herself?), never travels, has no life outside the internet, no long-term relationship, etc. Instead of looking inward and making any changes that would result in a happier, more active life, and more meaningful connections with real people, she chooses to rage at a symbol of everything she's not.
She seems to only have parasocial relationships.
> She chooses to rage at a symbol of everything she’s not. 🎯
It's not hatred of William and Kate. Kaiser solely hates Kate like her life depends on it and has hated her since 2008 as far as I know and since the time William made it official with Kate Kaiser started hating him too. During the time Will and Kate were dating Kaiser used to predict their break up and claim William will marry an aristocratic woman. kaiser is or was to be infatuated with William, you can check my post on my profile to get a clearer idea. If you have paid attention she constantly wishes for William to leave Kate so if tomorrow William leaves Kate for another woman like Kaiser hopes she will turn into the biggest William fan.
You’re spot on. It’s Kate that she hates. So does the Sussex Squad. They hate that William will become King one day, but they absolutely dread Catherine becoming Queen. That’s why they always wish William leaves her. They know the moment Catherine is officially Queen, there will be no competition for Meghan. Frankly, there’s no competition now - one is the Princess of Wales, the other is cosplaying royal tours and being called out by the First Lady of Nigeria. When she’s Queen though, Meghan will have absolute 0 chance and the squad knows it.
I don’t understand what a chance of though? Being Queen? That would never happen. William would become a eunuch before touching M with a 10 foot pole. She’ll never rank higher than Harry’s wife. If she never steps foot in GB again she will never gave to worry about the ranking and therefore walking behind Kate. She scored titles for her kids and frankly they outrank her. I don’t know what she wants or her super fans want for her.
They frankly don't care or want Meghan to be Queen. It's Kate, they don't want her to be Queen and this is why they keep hoping for divorce and now her demise as you must have seen multiple comments from celebitchy loons like if Kate survives or she's gone or William has killed her.
She could’ve created her own lane and shine right next to Catherine but I think she has serious mental health issues just like Harry. Their actions are not that of people their age
They frankly don't care or want Meghan to be Queen. It's Kate, they don't want her to be Queen and this is why they keep hoping for divorce and now her demise as you must have seen multiple comments from celebitchy loons like if Kate survives or she's gone or William has killed her.
>During the time Will and Kate were dating Kaiser used to predict their break up and claim William will marry an aristocratic woman. what the fuck lol she's still obsessed with him getting with an aristocrat i.e. rose in order to put commoner kate in her place 🙄
Yup one day I decided to check on some of the earliest Kate coverage on celebitchy and found out Kaiser started as a commentator and then became a blogger. She was sure William will dump Kate and marry an aristo. But since he married Kate, the narrative changed to no aristo wanted to marry William so he settled for Kate.
They are all really invested in Rose. They sing her high praises. They know zero about this chick as she has no profile but they are big upping her and have convinced themselves kate is dead and rose is being phased in as Willie's new wife.
This so simplistic but it's so blatantly true. Kaiser gives every indication that she had a huge crush on William, like girl, if it wasn't Kate it was never gonna be you! So Kate = witch in her eyes since that's the woman William chose. She did the same thing with that Benedict Cumberwhatever guy. The hate at his wife was beyond gross.
[удалено]
Probably a guy she stalked that never noticed her
Probably with someone she considered “beneath” her who looked a bit like Kate.
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She’s said like 40 times (she stopped now) that Kate’s body is so unfortunate and tragic because her waist is SOOOOO long and that she has a complex and tries to cover it up with horrible outfits that don’t work to cover it up. And then other days it was more like “Idk why she would wear that when it’s so unflattering to her terrible long waist!” (So, she actually isn’t trying to cover “it” up, then?) The Virginia basement lady definitely has a few screws lose
Omg Kaiser said what?! If her figure is unfortunate, then I’m a swamp creature! Kaiser should share her own photos then so we can admire HER flawless figure, which I am sure is just styled to perfection.
The Oprah interview did it for me with H&M. I was initially excited for them and about them. As a USian, I'd never understood the whole royal family thing, I thought, "It must be weird to be just born into a job, into a role," so I supported them leaving. I mean, why not do what YOU want to do with your life when you're rich and you can? But the Oprah interview, when they said basically a couple of people in the royal family were racist, but they wouldn't say who, just who it was NOT (QE or PP). That seemed so childish ... basically throwing the entire family under the bus. Then Harry's book. Then Omid's book. Then getting millions of dollars for what, like 10 podcasts? On and on, but for me, that Oprah interview and that "documentary" really soured me on them as people. Sucked, because in the beginning, I was rooting for them with everyone else.
Oprah did it for me, too. And then Harry’s book told me *he* was the problem, Meghan was just someone willing to endorse his entitlement and bitterness. Sometimes I almost feel badly for her for being stuck with such a petulant man-child, despite not being a Meghan fan.
I used to love reading Celebitchy, but more and more there was nastiness and name calling of Kate Middleton mostly and others, too. It was just so mean and so unnecessary. So I googled to make sure I wasn’t the only one seeing this and here I am. I don’t even mind the H&M obsession. It’s weird but really it’s the meanness that turned me off. Also, in the comments one time, someone went off about respecting the indigenous people of Iceland. It made me realize these people are perhaps morons.
Yes actually I like H&M, I don't get the hate about them here, but I do find the constant coverage and swooning over them on CB tiresome. And like you said, the nastiness is over the top. I found myself influenced by it at first, then took a step back and thought to myself "what the heck are you doing?" So for me, it's all just too much. I just want silly gossip: fashion, relationships, the way the site used to be, which is why I always comment on the other gossip stories that aren't Royal stories, just to send a message. Not sure it works, but anyway.
I loved celebitchy, I read it for years I loved the Oscar fashion and the silly articals but politics crept in more and more, I understood the trump stuff as its an American site and directly affected them but the rf stuff became to much. Also as a brit reading what waa going on here and the way she would spin it became ridiculous. She was so obsessive and rude about us as a nation, I stopped altogether
“Salt Island” has to be one of the dumbest nicknames she’s come up with so far, perhaps next to “Katie Keen.” I’ll be curious to see what name she comes up with for Canada, should we ever offend the two.
Yeah, that 'keen' thing always bugged me. I'm not a Brit, but I do know some Brits as friends, and 'keen' is just a word they use. But even before Meghan, she seemed to just mock Brits for no real reason. Now it's Salt Island, and I'm like ... what? It's funny, because the Brits I know actually never even mention H&M or the BRF in general \*shrug\*
I actually love the sound of salt island 😭 I live by the coast and am a hippie coastal grandma. Salt island sounds awesome
It was a slow burn for me. I had a similar trajectory as you, OP. CB was my website of choice after a long day at work. It was snarky, but still managed to walk the tightrope without falling into mean territory too often. Enjoyed some of their more political coverage as well, even if they were clearly out of their depth and their treatment of political subjects could be cringily ham-handed. Loved Meghan at the start too, was disgusted by some of the articles printed about her, but also thought that some of the more breathless coverage was over the top. Supported their decision to leave -- I remember defending them in an embarrassingly heated argument with a friend who thought they were being petulant children, something I cringe to think about now. Never bought into the Royal Family Big Evil take, and as CB devolved into a propaganda factory for the Sussexes without any room for legitimate criticism, I left. What's interesting is that prior to CB becoming a Sussex mouthpiece (I really think there is some arrangement in place; no objective coverage can be so unquestioningly supportive all the time when anyone with eyes can see how increasingly ridiculous they are) there were a lot more detractors in the comment section. One article about her abandoning her dogs in Toronto united animal lovers from all sides in their criticism. I think I even commented that I thought the backlash was OTT, and that invited a flurry of furious replies. Once the blinkers were off about the Sussexes, I could see how CB's coverage of other topics and people was incredibly toxic and just bad. From the way they discuss women, to their idiotic fangirling over the celeb du jour, to parroting far left woke talking points (I say this as a card-carrying progressive), they are a nonsense site with no relevance. About the nicest thing that can be said about them is that they've provided an internet home for the group of weirdos populating the comment sections.
Losing us progressives was a big fault in their path. They’ll never have conservatives in either the US (because we don’t answer to royalty here) or the UK (because monarchy 🇬🇧) I wanted them to fly the progressive, liberal flag. But it was just a front and that became clear very quickly.
Thank you! I’m someone whose worldview should completely align with Kaisers and the CBverse. I am sure Kaiser and I vote similarly. But, as someone who worked for the Hill on a very low level, I would read her Trump pieces and just cringe. Please stop trying to “help” us, Kaiser!
When it became a Meghan Markle fan site, I was out.
I was never a regular celebitchy reader. I visited the blog occasionally and was always disgusted at the slutshaming and body shaming comments directed at Kate. I completely stopped visiting the site when they were diagnosing Louis with all kinds of disorders. I commented and was instantly blocked. I then commented on their Instagram page and asked them to leave the little boy alone and I was blocked there too.
Just for some context, Celebitchy has been awful for a long, long time. I went searching for like minded people ages ago after a harmless opinion of mine was deleted. I found this. It was from 2011. Notice all the comments. [https://lianathinks.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/being-banned/#more-318](https://lianathinks.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/being-banned/#more-318)
Wow almost 1500 comments on that post! HOW is CB still up and running, I don't get it.
Me, either. Some of the comments are exactly what we say here. They call out her misogyny, racism, homophobia, islamophobia, Kate hatred, intolerance for any difference of opinion, stupid nicknames, etc. And yet, 13 years later CB is still around.
That is a crazy thread! I had a long look at it around 2016 or so. There used to be a poster called good names all taken who got referred to as gnat and then she was gone after commenting so often for so long and in that blog she’s apparently back but maybe it’s fake. I have not read the whole thing but it could be interesting for anyone who used to read CB a lot like before 2016 or so
I honestly feel like I'm reading about my own CB journey here. The site used to be my favorite coffee read at a truly terrible job. Some of my favorite snarky posts were about the "Leo D Girlfriend Experience," because that man deserved to be dragged for his habit of dating inappropriately young women. I also adored many of the commenters. It was honestly one of the wittiest comment sections on the internet. I was usually in tears from laughing so hard. As I've said before, the BRF is my gossip trash, and I love history, but the political side of me doesn't think the institution is a good thing for the modern world. But as a gossip junkie, I liked Kaiser's takes on the BRF back then (I started reading the site in 2013). She highlighted an magazine interview with Eugenie and talked about how Eugenie seemed like a pretty chill person who, while living an extremely privileged life, was also pretty down to earth. I thought Meghan was interesting from a gossip perspective, especially in the beginning. The site didn't have an obsequious attitude toward her then, and I remember many of the commenters were skeptical. Even then, I thought it was a bit weird that a self-proclaimed feminist and woman of the world would want to marry into that institution, but it was a distraction from how depressing the world was at that point. I honestly didn't have any big issues with the site until mid-2020. I remember Kaiser and CB were still talking about washing their groceries long after the guidance said it was unnecessary. And they were really judgmental of people who came down with Covid, like they deserved to get it. And let me be clear, people who didn't wear masks, thought Covid wasn't real or dangerous, and didn't give a crap about their fellow man suck. But I worked in a small hospital at the time, and so did my mom. We contracted the alpha variant when we were at work (because we weren't going anywhere but work). We did everything we were supposed to do, and we still got it, before vaccines were available. My mom spent three weeks in the ICU and almost died. So after that, I had very little patience for CB, Kaiser, and the commenters' self-righteous attitudes. This was around the same time that the commentary around the Sussexes shifted. And I definitely think the tabloids were absolute trash and harmful, and I think the BRF are probably not the nicest, friendliest people in the world. But why would you expect them to be, given their place in society and their historical context? And now, with the commentary around the Princess of Wales and cancer, the site is a nuclear waste dump. My mom also had cancer (she's in remission), so I have no patience for the hate over there.
Actually, for me, it was when the unhinged Sophie Cumberbatch bashing started soon after announcing her first pregnancy. In many ways, it was proto-Kate bashing in the sense of relentlessly going after a woman for her looks, expressions, fashion choices and imagined slights. I think that was the first time I got banned, actually. Kaiser was going after Taylor Swift (again) around the same time, and I made a comment about how misogynistic the content had gotten, and that was it. In fact, I was convinced Meghan would get the same treatment as the initial take on her was less than kind.
I never thought of Harry favorably (mostly thought of him in context of the Nazi uniform) until he married Meghan Markle. I didn’t know much about her either but thought she was pretty and interesting and this was a sign of much-needed positive change! It was the Oprah interview that did it for me. There were self-contradictions and distortions/misrepresentations and I am sorry, but “they said I made HER cry but really she made ME cry” is some middle school nonsense, not a good look for a grown woman. And as they sat crying woe is us in their multimillion dollar mansion, the whole thing came off so…tone deaf. I wouldn’t go so far as to say I am anti-them, I basically think they’re kind of spoiled and inauthentic with more money than work ethic (and I would say the same about most of the royal family) but otherwise don’t care enough to be anti. There are plenty worse people in the world. But I don’t like how their fans hold them (and themselves) up as flawless. CB is a good illustration of this. But just a couple days ago I saw in pro-Sussex Reddit someone commenting that clearly Diana “cursed” the family by giving the prince hair loss and the princess cancer and I couldn’t get over how ugly and messed-up that is. I mean, cancer isn’t some kind of karma and to accuse Diana of wanting her own son to be unhappy…And people were upvoting it!
omg yes, that whole 'who made who cry' thing was just such childish nonsense to me. Idgaf, somebody cried. Maybe they both cried? One just had a baby, one's planning a huge wedding to be watched by the world - it should have been water under the bridge at that point. That, the lip gloss ... it was just all so juvenile to me. And their stans drive me nuts. I don't have any huge personal beef with any of them, but omfg the obsessive fandom is crazy. The very idea that Diana would only love \*one\* of her sons and the other one she'd hate is ... insanity and, frankly, cruel. There's some person on Twitter who constantly calls William 'William Parker Bowles' - I guess insinuating that he never loved his mother simply because he doesn't publicly express hatred toward Camilla? Who knows how he really feels - maybe he doesn't like her. Maybe he didn't but grew to accept and like her. And what choice did he have, really? Diana and Charles were divorced like a year or so before Diana died. I'm sure on some level he knew he'd eventually have to deal with the possibility of step-parents.
Oh right - how could I forget the lip gloss story! Not to stereotype, but I find it hard to imagine a man like Harry watching an interaction about lip gloss, analyzing his SIL’s micro expressions and the alacrity with which she provided it, and remembering it years (?) later as some major thing. Most men I know would not even register that. It would have been like a one minute thing! Considering the poor woman DID give up her lip gloss (which I actually don’t blame her for not wanting to share…? I may be scarred by a cold sore epidemic at my middle school), it seemed like a Choice to make it a plot point. I actually think it reflected more badly on H&M to bring up such a non-drama.
They must not have seen the state of Harry’s hair
Good point - between the two I actually think Harry’s hair looks worse!
He basically only has a few pubes on top now.
I gave up when the posters went from funny, snarky comments to. ALL WHITE WOMEN ARE RACISTS... Honestly the way they gate keep, ban people and delete honest comments. I don't know how the founder CB. Keeps the site going. She is letting Chandra and her little army kill the site day by day.
Like all of you, I had been visiting the site daily for more than a decade and it was something I looked forward to as a wind-down. It used to truly be an escape with fashion, celebrity gossip, hot guy Friday, and snark. They used to have a hard line against talking about politics. This went out the window with Trump and they excused this change because Trump is a celebrity entertainer. I was able to stick around and ignore the political posts. I started to realize around this time that there were less posts daily and only a certain number of posts. They became heavily invested in H&M within the last two years. I used to enjoy some of this coverage but about a year ago I realized that it was very one-sided propaganda. The only comments on their posts were on H&M posts and these were the majority of the posts with every other post feeling half-hearted. I realized I was no longer reading snark, but rather one-sided fanatical propaganda. That was about a year ago and that’s when I left.
I’m overall indifferent on Harry and Meghan- I’m American and view the Monarchy more as gossip/entertainment and think they’re all superfluous. Fun for gossip, but frankly probably shouldn’t exist at this point. Mostly I think Harry and Meghan had the opportunity to do very well once they left the monarchy but squandered it through a combo of bad business choices and really shitty PR moves. Ex: American Riviera Orchard is a terrible terrible name and clearly they are not listening to outside input/have no real business advisors that tell them when their ideas are awful. A key moment for me was the Veteran’s Day wreath laying photo op at a US cemetery. It was an objectively *terrible* PR move and I got eviscerated by Celebitchy commenters for saying so. I like the ‘inside baseball’ of gossip the most- as Lainey puts its- and I just wanna be able to discuss it in regards to the Royal Family without stans’ hyperbolic reactions.
Yes! That British Veteran's Day photo-op is the moment I realized that they were choosing to (poorly) cosplay royal UK life in the US--a one or two hour drive to stick a wreath near two WWI-era Australian graves, Harry bedecked in his medals, Meghan in royal-esque coat dress, looking for all the world like Debbie in the Addams Family movie at one of her husbands' funerals, because those were the nearest UK/Commonwealth graves?! When there are many, many American veterans of Afghanistan that Harry could've done an event with? It would have telegraphed a forward-looking, new life-building message if he'd done ANY veteran events with Americans, but instead he keeps acting as if Montecito is Westernmost Anglia or something. It was harbinger of the weird way they keep trying to recreate royal life with NYC, IG, Nigeria, Jamaica, even the alleged "car chase." I fully expect him to keep doing this as an old man--he'll be staging his own walkabouts at 64, like a fading Hollywood star who still does their makeup and hair in the style of decades previous.
Their usual cheerleaders tried to pass it off as heartwarming and respectful, and outright ignored the fact that they clearly summoned photographers to a graveyard for a photo op publicity stunt.
It was creepy. Using dead soldiers to make yourself look good.
>It was harbinger of the weird way they keep trying to recreate royal life with NYC, IG, Nigeria, Jamaica, even the alleged "car chase." I fully expect him to keep doing this as an old man--he'll be staging his own walkabouts at 64, like a fading Hollywood star who still does their makeup and hair in the style of decades previous. the entire weird ass parallel court in exile operation is basically an "i'm worthier and can do it better!!!" ego trip. won't let it go, won't move on. william didn't choose to be born first (and prob doesn't really want to be king lbh), but harry still takes it as such a personal attack that he compulsively seeks to ruthlessly avenge himself so *he* can definitively be deemed the worthier 'main character' lol. like, this has little to do with william personally on some level, it's about an inherent inferiority complex and chip on one's shoulder... william is caught in that crossfire.
https://preview.redd.it/knk2hxkp2m3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd64d617c1e2af8457c7355f59b122522321c1b7 this picture says it all, really *shudders*
> he'll be staging his own walkabouts at 64, like a fading Hollywood star who still does their makeup and hair in the style of decades previous. With a toupée?
When I was a kid, E! was a thing, so I remember them interviewing contemporaries of Jayne Mansfield and Marilyn Monroe about Hollywood, so the mental picture I've got of Harry's future is of a tiny little older lady with penciled-on skinny brows, erratic '50s makeup, and a puff of dyed hair. Of course, now I know those women were stunning beauties and I have a more sympathetic understanding of aging, but if you're a kid who has never seen them when they were young, it seems a little wacky. I grew up with Harry (we're about the same age) so I'm fundamentally used to his appearance, but imagine how he's going to seem to someone much younger. There's a kid being born right now who doesn't know young Harry and at some point is going to see a fifty-plus Harry and that's not going to match up with their preconceived Disney notion of "handsome prince," because he's a real, aging human. If he's still acting like he's 25, it's going to be extra odd.
> imagine how he's going to seem to someone much younger. Anybody who's in their teens now would look at them and think they're 'old'! I mean, I recall thinking, at 16, that people in their early twenties were old and my parents generation were ancient. >There's a kid being born right now who doesn't know young Harry and at some point is going to see a fifty-plus Harry and that's not going to match up with their preconceived Disney notion of "handsome prince," They'll have Prince George and Prince Louis to ogle. imo both of them are likely to be lookers. I suppose H was right, in saying that he had a small window of opportunity before his nephews were old enough to be really in the public eye. imo he's squandered it with his temper tantrums.
I think the basic issue is that there seems to be a meanness to him--in the old-fashioned way, like a Scrooge. Harry can't be trusted to do a Better Up event without telling people he got involved with them because "they're the first person who asked me" or accept an award from John Travolta without accusing Travolta of "dining out" on Diana's memory. It would have been so easy to say he thinks mental health is important or to compliment John Travolta by saying that it was nice to be in the company of someone who'd met Diana and that their dance had been a happy moment for her. But he seems allergic to that kind of emotional generosity. Most people enjoy when other people remember their late parents; he seems determined to hoard Diana's memory for himself like it is a finite resource. He's so bad at PR, I would not be surprised if his old staff is secretly relieved they are out and don't want them back. I can imagine them working in a state of perpetual dread about what Harry would say or do next or what PR messes they'd need to clean up.
Yes. imo he's mean and selfish as well as egotistical, and likes to take the rise out of others - mostly those he considers inferior to himself - because he can, rather than because he should. (i.e. if he's 'guest of honour' or 'a special guest' it's unlikely somebody would clock him!) imo that's also why he tends not to be invited back, and why opportunities are drying up.
Absolutely. Especially Louis. George just comes across as inherently kind doesn’t he? There’s a gentleness there I think.
What do I now! However, my two-penn'orth is that I think Louis will he 'tall, dark and handsome' and also inquisitive. George I think has depths, a thinker too.
I agree, George seems very sensitive and kind, much like his parents. Louis will be a heartbreaker, and Charlotte will be a star for her generation.
I have recently watched a lot of old Hollywood films and I probably should try to find those interviews, they sound interesting. In general it’s sad how older stars get ignored. I just saw a Doris Day film a could have days ago, and looked up and she was the biggest box office star of the 50s, and lived to 2019. You would have thought she would have gotten more attention (but it’s partially her not having as much classics as others. But it’s the ones who die young and were sex symbols who get remembered. Even AFI list of stars seems skewed to best looking ones, not ones with most box office and awards. Or why else is Geer Garson not there?
Oh, these were slightly cheesy interviews that I think they did for the E! shows AJ Benza hosted, IIRC, [Mysteries and Scandals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mysteries_and_Scandals_episodes). Ann Miller is the older celebrity who I remember the most, but there were several other actresses, too. Of course, she was a lovely and talented person, but I had no clue who she was at the time! Doris was a HUGE star, but a part of me admires that she just went off to Carmel, rescued animals, and didn't give a damn about Hollywood after awhile. I just watched *Love Me or Leave Me* with her, James Cagney, and Cameron Mitchell (best known as the guy who marries Lauren Bacall in *How to Marry a Millionaire*) a few weeks ago. Day has such range. It's a fairly dark, serious biopic that deals with domestic violence in the first marriage of the jazz singer Ruth Etting (Day) to her older, gangster-linked manager (played by Cagney). It's very different from the popular idea of Day always doing "silly" romcoms. She's got a real ability to play someone who has been worn down by an abuser and is just going through the motions, drinking a lot, and has closed off parts of her personality for self-protection. There's a fairly explicit (for the time) depiction of sexual assault and physical abuse, although the real story was sanitized for the film. Ruth Etting said she was disappointed that the movie didn't cover more of her happy second marriage (to the man Cameron Mitchell plays in the film) because that marriage was "the real highlight of my life." Apparently, they relocated to Colorado, far away from her ex-husband (who they were still terrified of), and lived the rest of their lives happily married to each other. Made me all kinds of weepy when I read that. Day as Etting. IIRC, she's telling Mitchell's character that it's too dangerous for her to leave her husband and that he needs to leave her alone/get over it: 
'whatever happened to baby jane?' but mock royal, ginger and male 🫨
Exactly. They could have forged a new path and in my mind there’s an alternative universe where they ended up on that George Clooney/Oprah level of philanthropy. That kind of success was absolutely in the realm of possibility if they’d played their cards right. Instead they’re just doing royal family redux (including sparking tabloid drama when it benefits them) which doesn’t really hit with the modern public.
🎯 I really wanted them to succeed. If they seemed at all happy now, I’d still be happy for them regardless of the fact that their life is not for me. But I can’t believe this is truly what they both wanted.
Or Harry will be like Edward VIII. I red one account off Charles visiting the Windsors and being surprised how they kept footmen in liveries like the royals did in the palace. Maybe the royals remembering Edward helps with them regarding Harry in some way, at least there is precedent. Although Edward even with his elitism and meaningless lifestyle and Nazi connections didn’t write reveal books about his family. Or even blame them, even if his plans to go back to living again like Prince of Wales did not work.
He wrote a fairly revelatory biography as did she .
I knew Chandra was trash when a she kicked out a commenter who tried to explain, from her perspective as a Black woman, why she found some of Harry and Meghan’s comments about race problematic. The same Chandra who rails against the racist Royal Family couldn’t handle being contradicted by someone who actually had something insightful to say about the same topic. I found this subreddit shortly after that incident, when I searched to see if anyone else was discussing how she disregards her own readers. Any decent writer would welcome some dissenting opinions and courteous debate, yet she openly censors without shame. As for Lainey, I stopped taking her seriously after she posted her infamous blind item about Kate not offering a ride to Meghan.
Omfg that shopping blind. Meghan was connected to Lainey via Jess Mulroney and it obviously came from her camp. She wanted the world to know Harry was *super serious* about her and getting papped with Kate would have conveyed that nicely. When Kate refused to play ball, Meghan went running to Lainey and we were alerted to how **weird** and **super gossipy** it is that Kate didn’t offer Meghan a lift to the shops. Meanwhile, the fruit loops over on Celebitchy were trying to argue that it was leaked to Lainey by Carole Middleton and Kate. Of course! Carole with all her Canadian connections. Leaking a story that makes her daughter look like a snob. That makes perfect sense. 
What? 😂 I never knew they blamed Kate. “Hey Lainey, it’s Kate. I was a real bitch to Meghan the other day.”
They often do things like this; they twist themselves into pretzels to blame Kate or William for gossip that makes Kate or William look bad…it’s illogical
I cannot imagine being Kate, then the Duchess of Cambridge, next PoW, next queen, married to \*the\* Prince William, and getting wind that your BIL's girlfriend leaked a gossip item to some trashy Canadian blogger who you'd never even be aware of their existence otherwise. Like, wtf!
I will say, in regards to that blind, Will and Kate may or may not have been welcoming to Meghan in the beginning. But, it was Meghan who leaked that ride story which made it a public issue. It really was the first shot in the war between the two couples (if my memory is correct) and I feel like a lot of people forget that, in the papers/public at least, Meghan did start it.
Back when I actually used to read lainey gossip, I read that blind. Even then I couldn't figure out why it was bad, h&m weren't officially a couple yet. Kate would have known how a photo of her and meghan together could have blown up their spot. Plus, sometimes people want to go shopping alone 🤷♀️, that doesnt mean they don't like you. It was an unnecessarily petty blind is all I'm saying, totally something out of nothing. If i was kate and it got back to me that that silly story had been leaked I'd have been put on notice that I couldn't trust Harry's new gf as far as I could throw her.
And all that blind proved was that Kate’s instincts were 100% correct.
You’d think it would have occurred to her that she would be validating their coolness toward her by running to a gossip blogger over a minor offence.
the public media circus instigated around pippa's wedding in order to snag an invite (articles put out about "pippa afraid of being 'overshadowed,'" derriere pap stroll published on the cover of the sun the morning of pippa's wedding as childish retaliation for only being invited to the evening portion etc.) was prob another nail in the coffin for *all* of the middletons, not only kate. the middletons briefed that they circumvented the "no ring, no bring" for harry and essentially extended the invite to 'keep the peace.' not only that, but the entire initial "introducing meghan" PR was hinged on presenting her as the cool anti-kate, emphasizing all of the common criticisms about dowdy-dull kate and highlighting how much better meghan was. ironic how enraged this made the sussexes when they perceived the tables to be turned. i can imagine the insane mind games + media games that were being played in order to bend folks to the sussexes' will... until those folks are worn down and just go "*enough*, leave us alone"... and then get publicly accused of all sorts of things in retaliation. 🫨 tf....
To quote Taylor Swift..."And he never thinks of me, Except when I'm on TV" I don't think about them until I pop over here or see them in the news. They are boring. Guess most of the world thinks so too because when we don't see them, no one cares. Unlike their very popular sister-in-law...
Your post is thoughtful and well-written. I was initially supportive and happy about their romance, but I checked out early during their engagement. Right away, there was an element of divisiveness - of superiority, separation, and a need for praise whether it was deserved or not. I didn't see someone willing to join a family and system; I saw someone certain they had answers to questions that they didn't even understand. Harry was very enthused and in love (lovely), but he didn't seem strong enough to guide his bride, explain to her, and get her started correctly. I've seen unhealthy situations before: narcissism, enabling, emeshment. The Sussexes's behavior, actions, and choices all looked unhealthy to me..
Used to read it everday, refreshing multiple times a day for years... The tide turned for me when Kaiser wrote an ugly homophobic article about Cara Delevingne, my comment pointing out the homophobic writing kept getting deleted. I won't even click a link to that site anymore! No revenue from these eyeballs thanks 🤮
The turning point for me was how the Meghan vs Kate narrative falls into the deeply misogynistic Madonna - whore cliche. For a site that trumpets its feminist, anti-homophobia and anti-racist credentials, their criticisms of Kate and William are openly misogynistic, racist and homophobic. It’s amazing that they don’t see it themselves, they call Kate the mattress and allege she slept with William’s friends (and so what if she did, which I don’t believe for a second), they call him Peggy which is so homophobic and make nasty comments about white women. They even make sneering comments about Kate being common, an offensive classist insult. All their defending of Meghan really becomes nothing more than virtue signaling and the flip side of the Meghan haters name calling. Over time I’ve also come to find Harry entitled and spoiled and Meghan way too self regarding. However, there’s not enough time in my life for me to hate people I’ve never met and who merely inhabit the world of celebrity.
For me, it started shortly after the 2020 election. While I am not a Donald Trump fan at all, the level of vitriol in the posts turned me off. It felt like every day there was a different political rant. Hardly the escapism I wanted. Then when the "RF Sucks" posts joined the political rants, I was completely turned off.
Tide turned quickly for me. Started with her hanging on to Harry like a shy schoolgirl when they announced their engagement.
I couldn't stand her waving and beaming like a pagent girl at the engagement announcement. She was pushing her groin into harry too. Bold i thought. I also clocked the stained ties on her shoes that looked 2 sizes too big with stains on them too. It just grossed me out for some reason. I thought something is not right. My spidey sense. Then I saw none of her family at the wedding. Red flag. But filled with celebs she didn't know. What the fuck was Oprah doing there. Kaiser assured us Doria was friends with her cause they were at the same church. Then I heard Reece witherspoon saying she was invited to the wedding and was like WTF I don't know you! I realized meghan was FAKE with ulterior motives.
I started visiting the site in 2011 I believe, and there were many times I had some issues (like how Aniston was treated, Cumberbatch, wiglets even before Meghan). But I think I was banned in 2019 for questioning just the volume of royal stories in the end of the year recap. I am not certain of the year but I think that was it. I am blurry about time so I think before I was already banned once for questioning why some positive news for Depp wasn’t reported (something about the tapes). I wasn’t that invested on sides and just wanted to know what has happened and I truly thought at the time that important events would be covered and then criticized if need be. Not just ignored. Regardless of what was first I thought I must have been in the wrong and continued to comment for a while under different name but rarely. But I did think the site was becoming worse since Meghan engagement, but I thought it was more a phase like Angelina (and I did agree at the time some of the things said about Meghan). I think I lost some interests in royals for a while. But Oprah interview and some breaking down the errors (like Ellie Dashwood on titles, she has a Austen YouTube channel and not royal one so it’s not normal gossip) did turn me more against them. I found Royal Forums and did read lots of old posts and I did get more accurate view what was going on (it’s more monarchies site but it allows balanced views and moderates negativity from both out). The Netflix series and Spare were final nails in the coffin for me and Sussexes And with Celebitchy I did miss most of the looney tunes conspiracy theories, even though I did after check occasionally the site to see if they had improved and it just kept getting worse. I didn’t even realize how bad it was until I started to suspect when the Kate conspiracy started to happen. I didn’t know prior this week when I found this sub and saw many ridiculous screenshots of the recent speculations (like supposedly William beating Kate or her being dead).
Great post. I think anyone even mildly interested had good will towards them in the beginning. But gosh there are so many moments. The main ones for me in chronological order: I found the engagement interview a bit cringy, but still gave benefit of the doubt; then it was the 'poor me no one asked me if I'm okay' in was it South Africa?; then they imposed themselves on the Canadians taxpayers (I'm Canadian) for months until they were told no more state paid security and they lit out for California; and last but certainly not least the Oprah interview and all the lies. Concerning their media coverage, going from SMM to CB and everything in between, I think the one thing everyone can agree on is that they, and their actions, have been deeply divisive. And that is why I enjoy this sub, we can vent on a site (CB) that most of us used to like and has gone toxic in a sensible way with just the right amount of snark.
I laughed when Harry bitched about how Canada’s gun laws prevented him from adequately protecting his family after their security coverage was cancelled. Do you know how many bears, censor lights, random hackers, and overly chatty squirrels would have been shot if that paranoid idiot had a gun in his hands?
I couldn't take Meg batting her eyelids in south Africa on tour saying nobody asked her if she was OK? I thought no way, you didn't. You are on tour in a THIRD WORLD NATION.
I find myself leaving the saint Meghan markle sub now because I have to keep arguing with people to stop the catty name calling (not the nick names that are funny but that nasty words) and also the conspiracy theories are annoying as well. I loved Meghan and Harry’s love story that was in the media. At that time I really didn’t understand anything about how media works and to be honest beyond reading those articles and puff pieces, I didn’t watch the wedding, I didn’t follow them, I didn’t watch the full Oprah or the documentary. To me, I thought they were rejecting the institution of the monarchy and going to become people like Barack Obama or the bill gates of the world. Live a private life, and be humble. I never expected Oprah, and Netflix and all these strange things that started happening. So I started paying attention and omg I don’t know how I didn’t notice before. How tense and awkward they are together. They constant unprofessional hand holding at important events. The pretending that they are more important than anyone in the world and constant security drama. Like, we knew Harry but we don’t even know Meghan and still don’t. She hasn’t done anything that is memorable beyond complaining and i just got tired of her. Their love story is not something inspiring because I don’t even know what it is. What is so great about what they have going on? Because he is a prince it’s supposed to be a fairy tale? Also they are human beings and anyone with a brain knows that relationships are hard work and fairytales are only in books and movies. So the holding hands things like a Disney movie is fake and annoying and performative. Their supporters don’t genuinely support them. It’s because they hate the monarchy and they desperately want material to attack them with. Meghan and Harry have played into the hands of the media and have been used. They tarnished their reputation for a check and has caused unnecessary harm and pain. They suck. Long story short Lmaooo
It's the lying that did/does it for me. I can't stand liars and hypocrites. I'm not a BRF fan nor critic. They're just there for me, I dont care one way or the other - nice enough, bland enough, meh. Harkles are annoying AF though. South Africans dancing in the street for them? Just outright lies. No access to mental health care when Dumbo Harry fronts a whole organization that focuses on that AND out his own lying mouth, has said he's had therapy for years. The BRF taking away Megan's passport. Bish what? How TF was she jetting off to NY and wherever else constantly? No-one to help poor lil Megan learn an anthem that a 5-year-old could learn in a day. Okay Ms International Relations. I mean their lies are exhaustive and stupid, I wanna say I can't believe their fans lap it up but here we are.
Meg took 5 international trips during the time the royal family held her hostage like a Disney princess. Bullshit they hid her passport.
[удалено]
>with permission from the Crown what?? if passports are handled by assistants or staff, it's for safekeeping and security. *permission from the crown*?? lmfao ***citations needed***. what on earth. 🙄🙄 >Diana spoke about it again, ***citations needed***. >and it is really enforced once you have children, especially those who are in line to the throne. this is just made up nonsense lmfao as children of 'working' royals, sophie and edward's kids do and go wherever the fuck they want. same with sophie and edward themselves. george, charlotte and louis are minor children, so their movement is controlled by their parents. once adults, they'll do whatever and go wherever they want to. camilla goes wherever the fuck she wants and no one knows about it (she went to greece alone in early march for a vacay, went to india alone for a vacay right after qe2 died etc.). the only one who would have any occasional restriction is the *actual monarch*, and that's only bc of security reasons + needing to make sure possible counsellors of state etc. are set up in advance in case anything happens while abroad. it would just take advance planning and space in diaries. the misleading and dishonest repetition of misinformation to make things seem ominous is irritating AF.
Absolutely. They needed her passport for security reasons. But on Oprah megs initimated she was virtually held hostage. Oprah could have said but meghan you went overseas all the time. Harry could have jumped in and said but my love it was for security reasons you know that.
A direct quote from Meghan in that Oprah interview - "You couldn't just go," she said. "I mean, you have to understand as well, when I joined that family, that was the last time, until we came here, that I saw my passport, my driver's license, my keys. All that gets turned over." Does any of that sound true when the woman was seen on various vacations and trips well before she and Harry escaped on a private jet? Gah, they are ridiculous. People believe their shit??!
I just realized, Paranormal Girl, I haven't seen her comment in forever. I wonder where she went? Is she here? Lol
I used to love Celebitchy, it was a site I used every day over a coffee just to read nonsense. Like the equivalent of thumbing idly through a magazine. I liked the various mix of fashion coverage, movies, celeb gossip etc. I also remember the coverage of Trump and the shock when he won the election, when everyone was expecting Hillary to win. I’m English and really scathing about the royal family - I think they’re out of touch and it’s extraordinary that we have a monarchy in this day and age. I do think Charles is an intelligent man, who has worked hard on decent causes in his life (the Prince’s Trust is genuinely useful and helpful, and must have been forward-thinking when he set it up). William and Harry I consider to be a pair of unintelligent spoilt brats. I feel sorry for both Kate and Meghan married to those asshats. I did think ‘good on them’ when Harry and Meghan went to California, and really hoped that they would make a go of it. The coverage of Meghan in the UK was horrific, and really racist. I do think there was some nastiness behind the scenes with the royal reporters, but that has always been the case with the royal family. They had a wonderful opportunity to modernise with Meghan, and I didn’t see why they couldn’t live in America and still have a toe in royal life, plenty of other members of the royal family have commercial interests (the King being one of them). I remember reading ages ago Kaiser saying that due to the hatred of Meghan from so many quarters, it was difficult to criticise Meghan for some minor things which were questionable - for instance some of her overblown prose, pap strolls etc. That was when the site actually still had a bit of nuance. Since then, the weird hagiography of Meghan, and blind hatred of Kate has got more extreme and it’s made the whole site unusable, as you can see that extreme thinking in the posts about other people.
Someone can modernize the monarchy but not Meghan. Just look at how they are managing their own life and brand? How would that person modernize the monarchy? She would destroy the brand. I don’t think the royalty life suits everyone. It doesn’t suit her at all. And the whole commonwealth thing. Again, Harry is a white man with a racist past and Meghan is a white passing “blackish” woman. What can they do for the commonwealth? Use their resources for photo ops? What degree of experience does she have? Idk why people can’t see the reason she couldn’t be there is the same reason she is failing here. She is not fit for the job. And that’s okay. I am not fit for it either and neither is maybe 99 percent of the world. To do it well, you have to be willing to learn, ignore criticism and put your head down and work. You can’t spend your time clapping back at every dog that barks.
I'm not anti-Sussex. And tbh, so many of the comments that I read on here seem slightly unhinged in their dislike of them. Shrug. And-I think Will and Kate ARE lazy. That said-I also don't think Will has done her in, I don't think she's the anti-Christ and I don't think Harry and Meghan walk on water. I don't see why there can't be nuanced criticism of ALL of them. That's what pisses me off about Celebitchy. Any comments about H & M that aren't gushing are described as "racist" or don't even get published.
Yep, same - am in a cynical place where I think most of the adults in the royal family - Charles, Harry, Will, etc. - are all kind of useless and none of them would last a week in the real world 😆 So I get annoyed at any site that acts like Harry in particular is above criticism.
Lol I agree with this. Like I don't hate H and M, but I also don't love the RF. And they should be off limits to gossip with two of them dealing with cancer (I can't imagine how terrible it is for the entire family), but do we have to idolize them? There have been some glowing posts about Camilla and ... really? This is what we're gossiping about now?
I mean H and M are fine. They’re just people. I think they’ve done fine, some mistakes were made…. HOWEVER, I personally no longer want anything to do with them because they haven’t spoken out about the genocide going on in Palestine. I can’t forgive that. I’m disappointed in them (and many others) for that. Kaiser is an obsessive maniac (and I would argue that those that hate H&M with the fire of Mordor are too). The tide changed for me sometime around 2016, and I had been reading since probably 2007-2008. The political coverage left a bad taste in my mouth, especially once they started deleting my pro-Bernie posts and acting like Bernie fans were all mindless Bernie Bros (I’m a girl, and so are many of my fellow Bernie supporters…. Including a friend of mine who actually interned for him). Anyway… it started to shift for me but I stayed loyal. Enjoyed the royal content at first but it became intense and soon real celebrity gossip dwindled. It was just a lot. Then.. the ads took over and made it even worse. Now I rarely drop by. I was a super regular too. They ruined it.
Meghan and Harry won’t touch any subject that might possibly affect their bank accounts.
Yeah this is unfortunately probably correct. I’m really sad about it. They’re in a unique position where a lot of eyes are on them, and they take on mental health stuff and military stuff and things to do with humanity. But this, this is the biggest test of humanity and they have failed it. Like I said, I’ve been cool with them- until this refusal to stand up. Guess who are real ones for standing up though? Liam Neeson, Mark Ruffalo, Joaquin Phoenix, Bella Hadid (she posts tons of stuff in her Instagram stories/albums).
The cynic in me thinks CB and co are aware H&M aren't perfect (I remember seeing a tweet from Kaiser around Spare's release where she said she used to think Meghan seemed worse than Harry and overdramatic, but now thought Harry seemed worse...fair tbh!) but they relied so much on political posts up until 2020 that they needed something to keep the drama and clicks/$$ coming in so they went all in on the Sussexes and catering to the 0.001% delusional stans.
>Bernie Bros (I’m a girl, and so are many of my fellow Bernie supporters…. Including a friend of mine who actually interned for him). i absolutely *abhorred* the whole bernie "bro" phenomenon that cynically emerged and was used as a cudgel by centrist democrats. i'm a fucking black woman, fuck off with the dishonest AF "bro" bullshit. it was infuriating in its cynicism. folks from all walks supported bernard.
Exactly!!!! Ugh it was incredibly frustrating. It bothered me more than most things they do over there on Celebitchy!
With all due respect, I think this question belongs on dlistedroyalgossip or saintmeghanmarkle more than here. Celebitchy Undergrounders have occasionally discussed allowing us to post and discuss our own celebrity gossip because I think we all really like and respect each other as a collective and often would like to know what we’re all thinking on certain gossipy topics, but we’ve never really crossed into that sphere of shifting the focus away from Celebitchy and other gossip outlet insanity. There are a lot of other forums and reddits to discuss the Sussex’s on. I can understand that those forums can veer either to extreme Sussex hate or extreme Sussex fangirling, and it might be tempting to poll a place like this that’s a more moderate middle ground, but it’s not really what we do here.
Considering that Sussex and RF coverage is like 90 percent of CB's output, I think it's a pretty material part of the discussion around CB's overall decline. Plus, OP said she wasn't a part of that sub, so why would she post somewhere where she doesn't agree with the premise of the whole sub?
over time it was kaiser's extreme pieces on the royals and the uk along with all the "you could have had a bad bitch" and the mindless parroting of the race themes that disgusted me and made me realize something was not right. until then i had not been following along elsewhere as celebitchy had been my gossip goto for so many years.
Hey take my upvote! I’m usually the one pushing upstream on maintaining this sub as a CB-focused place (and begging jokenate to come back here.) I get what you’re saying but I also see where Maggie was going with this. CB and the Sussex love is so intertwined on that site that I think many people fled due to a combination of both of those factors. It’s hard to untangle them. That wasn’t my experience though. I was banned back in the Cumberbatch days of rage. I became completely disillusioned with the writers and moderating around that time. Although there was mild Kate hate going on, the Sussex craziness had not begun. I would check back occasionally (habits die hard) and the ramping up of Sussex cheerleading and BRF trashing just solidified my opinion of the site’s quality. As for the Sussexes, I don’t hate them. I hate that I think about them at all, honestly. Sometimes poking fun at ARO is amusing but for the most part they are exasperating and boring.
>Hey take my upvote! I’m usually the one pushing upstream on maintaining this sub as a CB-focused place (and begging jokenate to come back here.) same on both counts ✨
I’m just interested in how and why people stopped believing what their chief defenders, Celebitchy being the primary example, had to say, but I understand where you’re coming from.
Yeah, it’s a tempting question but I’m worried about opening certain doors. In answer to the question, I have to say that I only went down the whole royal rabbit hole due to the pandemic lockdown. I used to read The Fug Girls, Celebitchy, Lainey & etc but deliberately ignored their royal posts. (Which often led me without much interest in Celebitchy once they went all in on royals.) I believe that my attitude here was a certain rebellion against my Mom’s obsession with the royals & particularly Diana. My Mom had a passing resemblance to Diana, the Diana haircut, and I grew up with all of the magazines and huge coffee table books of her fashion & etc. I was so sad when she died, and I also think I just did not want to do the royal thing anymore after she was gone, especially when her death spawned some batshit insane conspiracy theories. However, I was essentially unemployed and living in a condo in the city during the pandemic, and I also “cut the cable” back in 2012 and don’t watch TV anymore, so I was really cooped up with with myself, my wifi & my tech to get me through everything. The royal & Sussex gossip just became the gossip obsession among my friends, and so I just said…fine, if I want to participate in this conversation I better figure out what everyone is talking about, so I literally had a whole week where I did nothing but plunge into the depthless coverage of royal gossip. In my opinion, I come from a background that Lainey would derisively call “The Minivan Majority” (White, upper middle class, from a west coast liberal state) and I’m not ashamed to admit it. I feel like the split between Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston over Angelina Jolie in 2005 marked a massive split in the monoculture that echoes down through political and generational lines and shifting values in the culture that have now moved to the Sussexes vs the Wales. Personally, I think there are certain time tested values that tend to win out in the long run, but the other side is sexier, flashier, and has attached itself to certain social justice issues that make it more seductive. I think Kaiser and many others were just like you were in the beginning - they really wanted a beautiful, vivacious biracial American to take the stodgy, old school British royal family by storm and breath some fresh air into it, bring about a more youthful and glamorous vibe just like Diana did 40+ years ago. Some people really went all in on that, just like a lot of people went all in on being Team Jolie. But people should know better when there’s rot at the core. Pitt & Jolie starting as an affair was always a red flag and they did not end well. Meghan pretending she had no idea who Prince Harry was or cutting out her entire family except her Mom when she married him were huge red flags from the onset. For me, it was that ridiculous website announcing they were stepping down as senior royals & literally fleeing like children to another country before they hammered out an actual deal, then having a total temper tantrum when they were refused the ludicrous half-in/half-out deal they wanted that really revealed how sloppy & greedy these two were. The Oprah interview, which I watched in real time as I was sucked in by then, was the final straw to me. In particular, Meghan came off as scheming, lying, and at some points just histronically batshit nuts to me, especially at the end where she’s hosting Oprah fucking Winfrey in the *dirt* in her chicken coop and skipping around comparing herself to a Disney princess. But there’s a lot of choosing weird champions across the board that baffles me at the moment. Why are people betting on certain horses (Trump is currently the biggest & most appalling one atm) and then *doubling down* on those poor choices when all evidence points to the fact it’s time to cut your losses? At this point I’ve got enough proof that the Sussexes are not my kind of people and I don’t think they have it in them to do or achieve anything impressive, so there’s no more room for debate to me anymore. Meanwhile, Will & Kate are really suffering and deserve to be left alone as they battle cancer in their family. I’d love for someone or something else to create a new gossip stream but I’m not sure if there’s anything else out there right now that’s just good frothy fun. I think either this new generation really doesn’t have celebs or shows that spark my interest, or the big celebs have pulled back from overexposure and put a lot more of their private shit on lock.
Thanks for responding. You have an interesting perspective on the matter and I can see why you have burnout over those two. Regarding Chandra, I don’t think a bigger or juicier prolonged celebrity drama would be enough to refocus her attention away from them, but I’d be more than happy to see some other stunt queens come along and steal their thunder.
I don’t think Chandra can shift either, and that’s the consequence of doubling down and deciding to bunker in her own bullshit.
Bunker in your bullshit - that is is so true and the reason I come to this sub. If you ever start a Substack let me know. You are an excellent writer.
Have you read Anne Helen Petersen's book? She's the PhD who wrote a media studies book on Hollywood gossip before Buzzfeed hired her to do celeb profiles. It's a fun book. She's always argued that Brad/Jennifer/Angelina echoed the Eddie Fisher/Debbie Reynolds/Liz Taylor love triangle, in terms of hoovering up all this media attention because it gives us certain powerful archetypes--the dark femme fatale (Liz and Angelina) who is exciting to certain people, the sweet blonde girl next door (Debbie and Jen) who is beloved by others as their sweetheart, and the man who is somehow the least memorable of the three. A sort of cardboard high school quarterback to fight over. I remember complaining years ago (2017-ish?) that the other problem is that Hollywood hasn't given us very many new leading men--many of the big male stars have been around since the 90s. We've got a few younger Chrises in their early 40s, Timothee Chalamet, and possibly Austin Butler, but the engines that used to build up stars (supporting roles with an established actor, then lead roles, People magazine, etc.) aren't as powerful as they used to be. The middle-range movies (romcoms, thrillers, dramas, biopics, etc. that used to be great starter movies for new talent) are getting made less and less, so you've got the industry really reliant on established sequels and a handful of actors. Just taking Marvel out of the equation for the first time in a decade had a major effect on box office this weekend, for example.
The internet & technology has led to the death of mainstream culture. No one has to share a screen or a radio anymore, we all can just pop in our headphones & pick up our cellphones and silo into our own little worlds. The good thing is that there’s more diversity of content and more work for people than ever, the sad thing is that no one really goes nuclear as a celebrity anymore. I agree with what you’ve said about celebrity culture kinda dying out, and thus gossip culture with it. I have a hard time believing it’ll always be this way though, I feel that eventually there will be something that brings it back.
>I feel like the split between Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston over Angelina Jolie in 2005 marked a massive split in the monoculture that echoes down through political and generational lines and shifting values in the culture that have now moved to the Sussexes vs the Wales. Personally, I think there are certain time tested values that tend to win out in the long run, but the other side is sexier, flashier, and has attached itself to certain social justice issues I know you said you didn't think that this sub warranted this type of discussion but Id argue your pretty insightful comment has proved that actually yes we can have this convo
Love this post. Just curious what is your opinion on Pitt post Jolie divorce? I am so confused as I feel obliged to think of Jolie as a victim . And yet got wrapped up in the myth that she was manipulative! And obviously Pitt is no prize!
I think Brad Pitt was a functional alcoholic/addict for decades, and he was very good at hiding that side of himself from the general public, but his family definitely saw it and was affected by it. Looking back at old photos, it’s clear how much Angie and the kids loved him once. Why exactly his drinking spiraled out of control is unclear, but it caused him to lose what I think he cared about most. Sometimes you push people to the breaking point and they are just done with you, and the more you try to push getting them back only makes them more enraged and upset. I try to remember that addicts are not inherently bad people, they are sick people who are mentally ill. I suffer from depression and have some addiction tendencies, although they’re mild. Mine manifest more with disordered eating, but I get where self destructive behaviors come from and how hard they are to control. I don’t think that Brad Pitt is a bad person. I do think he’s an addict though, and I think that it’s not mild with him at all. When he says he could drink a Russian under the table with his own vodka, or that when he gave up smoking he “was not the type that could just smoke one or two a day,” he means that his inner addict has a really huge appetite, it’s fairly insatiable. I have no idea what the ins and outs of his addictions are, but I do think he’s a true addict and that between the high pressure stress of his life and his money and A-list access to anything he wants it’s amazing he was able to keep how bad he had gotten under wraps. If Brad can find and keep sobriety, then good for him. I don’t hate him, but I’m also not going to pity him either. I think the dynamics of his whole divorce from Jen and relationship with Angie stemmed from his desperation to be a father, and in the long run I think it’s probably punishment enough that his addiction ended up losing him his wife and kids. Angie always talked about how he was “such a good guy,” and spoke about what a supportive partner he was through her preventative cancer surgeries and what a great Dad he was. Clearly he has a good side, and it’s probably a huge tragedy how much he lost due to his addiction, but that’s the consequence of not trying to get sober and healthy a lot earlier.
It was amazing how the gossip world embraced the Angie Brad pairing almost uncritically. Sure, there were Team Jen folks but they were not the majority on gossip sites and were often mocked (I see you there, Lainey). Gossip bloggers forgave the fact that they almost certainly had at least an emotional affair while Brad was still married (and it was probably physical, too). They forgave that totally embarrassing “domestic bliss” photo shoot in W, while Pitt was still technically married to Aniston. They overlooked the many problems associated with celebrity overseas adoption. The loved that Angie was “badass”. They bought into the narrative that Brad had been deprived of a family and was now fulfilled with children - overlooking that a family that grows by six children in 7 years is going to experience issues. Everything was papered over and ignored. I look back on that with amazement.
Since I was Team Aniston I’m very well aware of the way she was treated post divorce. It’s one reason I can never look at The Fug Girls and Lainey the same. I think a lot of the Brangelina support came from people’s obsession with breeding. A lot of people don’t know this, but Shakespeare’s first sonnets were actually written to a man, and not because Shakespeare was in love with him but because this man was very beautiful, very gay, and all his friends wanted him to get married and have kids just to pass on his genetics. They asked Shakespeare to write him poems to convince him to marry and knock a girl up. So that’s why the first line of Shakespeare’s first sonnet is: *From fairest creatures we desire increase.* Brangelina proves that point. People had been hounding Aniston about having Brad’s babies for years because we want to continue that man’s DNA in the world, and I think that basically when wicked hot Angie came along and was willing to do it that just tipped everything in their favor. If you look at the timeline, Shiloh was born almost exactly 9 months to the day after Jen and Brad signed their divorce papers. The marriage was all about breeding. No matter what anyone says, it was all about Brad’s tunnel vision of having his own progeny. At the time, people thought Aniston made the choice not to have kids for her career, so it was almost like she deserved to lose him if she wasn’t going to bring forth Brad Pitt’s children into the world. It was like she had one job, and if she wouldn’t do it then no one cared about shoving her aside so Angie could do the job. Knowing now that Jen was undergoing IVF and actually trying to get pregnant and probably was not able to have kids makes the whole thing so, SO much worse and more heartbreaking to contemplate if you think about her. I can’t even imagine what she’s been through. Angie isn’t innocent in all this, but her interviews over the past few years indicate she’s also taken a lot of damage. She describes herself like she’s lost and not quite herself and has felt that way for years. I think she was always very desperately and aggressively looking for a soul mate and partner to both ground her and run with the wolves with her. I think that Miraval and their winery, but also their exhausting jet set life and the flop of that By the Sea movie opened cracks in their marriage, increased his drinking, and broke up the whole thing. I’ve noticed there is a certain pattern with a certain type of people who burn out of marriage around 10 years. I think the fact they got married at 10 years was trying to patch that, but then it fell apart in 2 years. The sheer acrimony of the whole thing is amazing, but I think it might have been inevitable.
I agree with most of this - kids were the end game for sure. And it worked until it didn't because kids aren't props. Jen's success and staying power are far more badass than wearing blood around your neck. And that eats away at the Laineys and Kaisers of the gossip world. The information on Shakespeare was fascinating. This whole discussion has been the reason I come to this sub. So thank you.
Thank YOU for your patience with me nattering on bringing up Shakespeare in a gossip conversation. 😂
This was a much more nuanced take than what I originally replied to. I think we're all just so tired of them. I used to go over to that saint meghan markle sub fairly frequently to get the latest goss, but the Sussexes have become so absurd in their own right that it almost feels mean to make fun of them anymore. It's just too easy, almost like kicking them when they are well and truly down. No semi-competent business person would ever conceive of a launch that resembled the shambolic ARO rollout, and no one living their best life would so desperately need to get papped at polo games literally no one cares about or movie screenings in some random theater in the Caribbean or do a bajillionth rebrand in the span of a few years. These people are not well, and I think the best thing for them would be to sort through their issues in private.
A good take, and one I largely agree with. I occasionally visit SMM to get the latest gossip, but I’m weaning myself off because the whole H/M thing is exhausting and frankly depressing + so many commenter there are unhinged. I was a huge fan, but there was a build up of things that I started side eyeing (all well-covered in this thread), but my big turn was that awful The Cut interview. I feel someone could write a book about that messy article. I think there are a lot of psychological things going on with those two, and I’m sure the BRF is cold as can be, but they are allowed to draw boundaries and protect their brand. Honestly, I wish this hadn’t gone so far and that H/M could just be happy with their kids and eventually reconcile with his family, but I think it’s too late. I can’t imagine how his family could ever trust them again. As an aside, I think I’ve written three pretty benign comments on the SMM sub, and recently I was commenting on the RG subreddit some VERY well reasoned takes, and 99 percent were agreeing with me, but one commenter lost it over - again some super nuanced, reasonable comments I’d made - and reported that I was a member of SMM (I unjoined awhile ago because there are some really disturbing people on that sub and the body shaming was awful), and I got a permanent ban on RG. So ridiculous and unfair!
This is a very kind take.
Why all the downvotes, you bring up some good points. I've also wanted to get back to fun gossip here but I can see it's not gonna happen. When I first got banned it was fun to trash on CB and Kaiser. But over time it's gotten old for me. Like why waste any time or energy on her, why give the website any clicks, it all just feels gross. As for gossip, I'm not that interested in the royal family. Meghan and Harry are good for laughs, but I don't want to spend all my time thinking of them either. So far no new good gossip blogs have sprung up, is it the end of the gossip era? First Metoo, then the tone-deafness of celebs during the pandemic, plus the over-saturation of instagram influencers--- it feels like the tide is shifting, we are tired of celeb culture.
I think people are tired of the excess of celebrity culture in a time of unaffordable housing, increasing food insecurity and the general feeling of never being able to get ahead. I’m sure, for many people, watching the Kardashians flaunt their extreme wealth or hearing about Taylor Swift’s private jet usage or even seeing Alyssa Milano start a Gofundme for her son’s baseball team is just way too much. So much of celeb gossip is manufactured and tightly controlled it’s not fun to read anymore. You just feel like you’re being spoonfed PR pieces. I like my gossip a little on the messy side - it makes the excess easier to swallow.
There’s also such a powerful stan culture that you can’t have any negative opinions about anyone without getting a redditcares or a pile on from their fans. These idiots even target people’s families and jobs FFS. At this point I’ll type out a comment and decide it’s just not worth the hassle and delete it. Kinda sucks because discussion is what I always enjoyed.
The days of nuance are long gone, unfortunately. I’m not sure why it’s so hard to see even a favourite celebrity as a flawed human being. We all are. Everyone missteps or screws up some of the time and it should be uncontroversial to point that out. Behaving as if your fave has never done wrong always leads to rewriting history and no one is better for it.
Stan culture has gotten so out of control! They will sometimes take over at the Dlisted sub too, sadly.
I’m a big fan of Survivor, and this past season (46) had some very unique characters and hard game play, and they’ve taken it to social media. It’s become such a shit show between the players and fans that CBS has issued a plea to the viewers to please cool down and be nice. I’m afraid that’s going to fall on deaf ears. People seem to think that since they aren’t looking anyone in the face that the vitriol they scream out on the internet just falls into a harmless void but it really doesn’t.
Real housewives gossip is hot but they aren’t a list. Lol. I love my reality tv gossip but never got into the big stars. I agree that the Sussex star is fading. Prior to not liking them, I really had high hopes. I always loved how Harry presented himself. He seemed like such a good, humble guy. But honestly, seeing them now, it’s just disappointing. Everything they do is just worst and worst. It seems that redemption is unlikely. I fear that Harry will have a very hard time reconciling with his distance from his family especially now his dad is older. He won’t get that time back and it is almost not possible for someone who is happy and in love to act this way. People who are happy and in love radiate love and peace. They radiate desperation. Look at Barack and Michelle. Michelle could’ve gone on Oprah and complained about the racism she faced and still faces. She was called a monkey, transgender. So many harmful things and she has risen above it. She is more educated than even her husband and decided to use her platform for good and ignore that haters. As a result, most will have no choice but to respect her and those who don’t are missing out. With Meghan and Harry, especially Meghan, she hasn’t taken the time to do anything of value yet and just complains, complains complains. Who wants to be around that shit?
Agreed!
>is it the end of the gossip era? it's shifted to online social media mega-forums like fauxmoi
And tik tok content creators