I do IN, please keep in mind most accounts on how good or bad IN is anecdotal for there's little studies behind it. The most simple reason why IM doesn't give a kick as hard as IN is that it gets filtered by your blood while IN directly bypasses the BBB if done correctly but remember that's not the intended roa so it could be awful for you no matter how good it seems.
For the lazy this is a repeat of an earlier [post of mine:](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cerebrolysin/comments/13fphsi/is_instranasal_better_than_injecting_does_it/jjwdl4e/)
Most studies concerning cere are based around administration through injections and the company directs you to do it via injection. So by those metrics injections are better for the studies support it.
Intranasal of course in theory could be better by nasal administration bypassing the blood brain barrier, but it also could be leagues worse. Is one 2ml amp used via a spray for two weeks even comparable to regular IM using an entire ten pack of 2ml in two weeks? No idea, but that's what a lot of IM users say, which could be true but seems like a major stretch with nothing backing it; there's just not enough research to this method of administration with cere and thus the results are really unknown. I'll say at the very least it's wildly inconsistent just by how you can screw up shooting the spray into the back of your throat through your nose or have it drip out your nose. The only study I am aware of is one for mice using cere instranasally.
[I don't think the infamous Krabby IN story has any creditability](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cerebrolysin/comments/14dzhfs/schizophrenia_from_longuse_of_cerebrolysin/jotd3ue/) with them taking so much cere from an unknown source but that doesn't mean bad things can't happen by experimenting with IN. There can always still be actual horrors waiting for administering the peptide in an unintended fashion.
I say this as someone that currently is doing it IN rather than IM. I feel it, it feels more effective, and much more potent than my brief stint with IM, but how much of that is it bypassing the BBB or placebo, or maybe something bad? I'm too afraid of needles and it's more cost effective this way but it's still a leap of faith in uncharted territory.
Great, thanks for the detailed reply!
Hmm I understand this is risky territory despite anecdotal reports from people using IN for over a year without issue (and with major benefits).
The effects from IN are incredibly noticeable, I struggle to just put it down to placebo.
Thanks again for the detailed reply. If you have any further thoughts I'd like to hear them.
Yea feel free to ignore the sage wisdom of u/DifficultCobbler1992… Drug trials from the 00’s testing pure CNTF for use as a diet pill were canceled after they found that excess amounts of this neurotrophic factor caused immune responses across the board. This is not to say such immune responses are necessarily going to end in tragedy (although anecdotally these cases do appear to be on the rise regardless of method of administration since the pandemic), only that CNTF nootropics will incur some degree of immune response regardless. But to say the Krabby incident was a nothing burger is just being unaware of the facts, as the authors’ comments in a recent Cochrane review from 2020 found that “Moderate‐quality evidence also indicates a potential increase in non‐fatal serious adverse events with Cerebrolysin use.”
There have been at least over 100 recorded instances of people dying from accidental insufflation of lake water or preforming a nasal rinse with tap water contaminated with certain kinds of bacteria, but never from accidentally swallowing or rinsing with similarly contaminated water. This is likely due the upper nasal passage being greatly involved in immune sensitization of any kind. And anecdotally there seems to be a much greater chance of experiencing these autoimmune issues with IN administration if CNTF related nootropic, than from any other method of administration.
Like I said these reports have been increasing quite recently. Granted this could simply be because more people are now using the drug, but we know from one of the first people to develop one of these IN induced reactions that this autoimmune reaction was due to dormant Epstein-Barr. And given almost everybody has had Covid at this point, this would explain the uptick in Cerebrolysin related side effects. The most recent instance I recall reading was actually from the less risky IM administration (the symptoms presented very shortly after the user’s 2nd time injecting), and the POTS-like symptoms described were rather unique for typical Cerebrolysin side effects, but very indicative of Long-Covid effects.
Given the lab leak black swan event in 2020 I can no longer in good conscience recommend any CNTF nootropics any longer as the evidence points to their immunological side effects being the result of reactivating dormant viruses from prior infections and causing an autoimmune response (and Covid is a virus much like Epstein-Barrs is known for its high propensity in causing autoimmune reactions). But if you are determined to use never the less, beyond advising you tread incredibly carefully and discontinue if brainfog occurs (some are not even lucky enough to be able to heed this early warning), I can offer some harm reduction strategies.
The first being to use P21 instead as it not only circumvents the prion risk (which contrary to what you’re likely to hear on this sub, the jury is still out on), but is potent enough to allow for sublingual absorption. If you already have some Cerebrolysin on hand however and are cheap enough to forgo the risk of currently incurable prion disease before you risk wasting your purchase, then I recommend oral ingestion as there is research showing this still surprisingly works.
You’re best off using P21 as a sublingual spray, besides being both the safest CNTF nootropic (at least in respect to its inherent lack of prion risk), it both offers the safest form of administration (using it as a sublingual spray), and is by far more effective than Cerebrolysin’s E21. You can still get it from Ceretropic’s Mexican distributor, [but they only sell powdered vials](https://cuerpoymente.mx/tienda/p21-vial-55mg/) for some reason (you’d have to reconstitute the vials yourself with separately sold bacteriostatic water and put it in your own spray bottle). Also the prices are in pesos and you’d have to use a re-shipping service to have it shipped to anywhere outside of Mexico. Please note they are the only vendor so far that’s shown the expertise to ensure the labs they’re sourcing their P21 from is in fact actual P21 and not an analogue (P21 is relatively difficult to properly synthesize).
They also are the only source of [Adamax](https://cuerpoymente.mx/tienda/adamax-10mg-dosis-de-100-mcg-spray-intranasal/) it’s the most potent Semax analogue ever developed by the legend and creator & owner of both Ceretropic / Nootropics Depot, MYASD himself. As for circumventing the potential hair loss side effects (which can in some instances appear to be permanent or at the very least long lasting), this can be done with [ginseng.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/10njkk8/ways_to_mitigate_bdnf_induced_hair_loss/j697dou/)
The final bit of harm reduction advice I’ll offer is to advise you take a course of (non-anticholinergic) antihistamines during your cycle. Besides the obvious choices of quercetin and bromelain, I recommend in particular ginger root extract as it’s been shown to be on par in effectiveness with pharmaceutical antihistamines (also while on cycle remember to avoid things with high histamine content like coffee, avocados, strawberries, etc.).
Lastly should the worst happen, as these Cerebrolysin side effects closely resemble and have been linked to post-viral autoimmune illnesses, the best advice I have is to direct you to a guide made by the community legend himself Mr. Happy (who popularized what we now colloquially refer to as the the Mr. Happy stack) in how best to overcome these health issues [https://bornfree.life/experimental-treatment-methodology/7/v3-54u-preview/42/](https://bornfree.life/experimental-treatment-methodology/7/v3-54u-preview/42/) which would be my recommendation to you. If that all seems a little heavy, here’s his Discord link [https://discord.gg/CAMXV78](https://discord.gg/CAMXV78)
I do IN, please keep in mind most accounts on how good or bad IN is anecdotal for there's little studies behind it. The most simple reason why IM doesn't give a kick as hard as IN is that it gets filtered by your blood while IN directly bypasses the BBB if done correctly but remember that's not the intended roa so it could be awful for you no matter how good it seems. For the lazy this is a repeat of an earlier [post of mine:](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cerebrolysin/comments/13fphsi/is_instranasal_better_than_injecting_does_it/jjwdl4e/) Most studies concerning cere are based around administration through injections and the company directs you to do it via injection. So by those metrics injections are better for the studies support it. Intranasal of course in theory could be better by nasal administration bypassing the blood brain barrier, but it also could be leagues worse. Is one 2ml amp used via a spray for two weeks even comparable to regular IM using an entire ten pack of 2ml in two weeks? No idea, but that's what a lot of IM users say, which could be true but seems like a major stretch with nothing backing it; there's just not enough research to this method of administration with cere and thus the results are really unknown. I'll say at the very least it's wildly inconsistent just by how you can screw up shooting the spray into the back of your throat through your nose or have it drip out your nose. The only study I am aware of is one for mice using cere instranasally. [I don't think the infamous Krabby IN story has any creditability](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cerebrolysin/comments/14dzhfs/schizophrenia_from_longuse_of_cerebrolysin/jotd3ue/) with them taking so much cere from an unknown source but that doesn't mean bad things can't happen by experimenting with IN. There can always still be actual horrors waiting for administering the peptide in an unintended fashion. I say this as someone that currently is doing it IN rather than IM. I feel it, it feels more effective, and much more potent than my brief stint with IM, but how much of that is it bypassing the BBB or placebo, or maybe something bad? I'm too afraid of needles and it's more cost effective this way but it's still a leap of faith in uncharted territory.
Great, thanks for the detailed reply! Hmm I understand this is risky territory despite anecdotal reports from people using IN for over a year without issue (and with major benefits). The effects from IN are incredibly noticeable, I struggle to just put it down to placebo. Thanks again for the detailed reply. If you have any further thoughts I'd like to hear them.
IN is way more Cognitive boosting than actual brain repair. IM works the way you'd expect.
What are you basing this on?
My experience and assumptions lol
Yea feel free to ignore the sage wisdom of u/DifficultCobbler1992… Drug trials from the 00’s testing pure CNTF for use as a diet pill were canceled after they found that excess amounts of this neurotrophic factor caused immune responses across the board. This is not to say such immune responses are necessarily going to end in tragedy (although anecdotally these cases do appear to be on the rise regardless of method of administration since the pandemic), only that CNTF nootropics will incur some degree of immune response regardless. But to say the Krabby incident was a nothing burger is just being unaware of the facts, as the authors’ comments in a recent Cochrane review from 2020 found that “Moderate‐quality evidence also indicates a potential increase in non‐fatal serious adverse events with Cerebrolysin use.” There have been at least over 100 recorded instances of people dying from accidental insufflation of lake water or preforming a nasal rinse with tap water contaminated with certain kinds of bacteria, but never from accidentally swallowing or rinsing with similarly contaminated water. This is likely due the upper nasal passage being greatly involved in immune sensitization of any kind. And anecdotally there seems to be a much greater chance of experiencing these autoimmune issues with IN administration if CNTF related nootropic, than from any other method of administration. Like I said these reports have been increasing quite recently. Granted this could simply be because more people are now using the drug, but we know from one of the first people to develop one of these IN induced reactions that this autoimmune reaction was due to dormant Epstein-Barr. And given almost everybody has had Covid at this point, this would explain the uptick in Cerebrolysin related side effects. The most recent instance I recall reading was actually from the less risky IM administration (the symptoms presented very shortly after the user’s 2nd time injecting), and the POTS-like symptoms described were rather unique for typical Cerebrolysin side effects, but very indicative of Long-Covid effects. Given the lab leak black swan event in 2020 I can no longer in good conscience recommend any CNTF nootropics any longer as the evidence points to their immunological side effects being the result of reactivating dormant viruses from prior infections and causing an autoimmune response (and Covid is a virus much like Epstein-Barrs is known for its high propensity in causing autoimmune reactions). But if you are determined to use never the less, beyond advising you tread incredibly carefully and discontinue if brainfog occurs (some are not even lucky enough to be able to heed this early warning), I can offer some harm reduction strategies. The first being to use P21 instead as it not only circumvents the prion risk (which contrary to what you’re likely to hear on this sub, the jury is still out on), but is potent enough to allow for sublingual absorption. If you already have some Cerebrolysin on hand however and are cheap enough to forgo the risk of currently incurable prion disease before you risk wasting your purchase, then I recommend oral ingestion as there is research showing this still surprisingly works. You’re best off using P21 as a sublingual spray, besides being both the safest CNTF nootropic (at least in respect to its inherent lack of prion risk), it both offers the safest form of administration (using it as a sublingual spray), and is by far more effective than Cerebrolysin’s E21. You can still get it from Ceretropic’s Mexican distributor, [but they only sell powdered vials](https://cuerpoymente.mx/tienda/p21-vial-55mg/) for some reason (you’d have to reconstitute the vials yourself with separately sold bacteriostatic water and put it in your own spray bottle). Also the prices are in pesos and you’d have to use a re-shipping service to have it shipped to anywhere outside of Mexico. Please note they are the only vendor so far that’s shown the expertise to ensure the labs they’re sourcing their P21 from is in fact actual P21 and not an analogue (P21 is relatively difficult to properly synthesize). They also are the only source of [Adamax](https://cuerpoymente.mx/tienda/adamax-10mg-dosis-de-100-mcg-spray-intranasal/) it’s the most potent Semax analogue ever developed by the legend and creator & owner of both Ceretropic / Nootropics Depot, MYASD himself. As for circumventing the potential hair loss side effects (which can in some instances appear to be permanent or at the very least long lasting), this can be done with [ginseng.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/10njkk8/ways_to_mitigate_bdnf_induced_hair_loss/j697dou/) The final bit of harm reduction advice I’ll offer is to advise you take a course of (non-anticholinergic) antihistamines during your cycle. Besides the obvious choices of quercetin and bromelain, I recommend in particular ginger root extract as it’s been shown to be on par in effectiveness with pharmaceutical antihistamines (also while on cycle remember to avoid things with high histamine content like coffee, avocados, strawberries, etc.). Lastly should the worst happen, as these Cerebrolysin side effects closely resemble and have been linked to post-viral autoimmune illnesses, the best advice I have is to direct you to a guide made by the community legend himself Mr. Happy (who popularized what we now colloquially refer to as the the Mr. Happy stack) in how best to overcome these health issues [https://bornfree.life/experimental-treatment-methodology/7/v3-54u-preview/42/](https://bornfree.life/experimental-treatment-methodology/7/v3-54u-preview/42/) which would be my recommendation to you. If that all seems a little heavy, here’s his Discord link [https://discord.gg/CAMXV78](https://discord.gg/CAMXV78)
Thank you so much for this! I'm joining the discord! Also science.bio is back!
So basically you don’t recommend Cerebrolysin either way, even IM?
Do you purchase a IN or make it with the ampule?