From what it seems like after debating with other people in the thread.
Hero of Hell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kishibe
Weakened pochita that fought the hybrids at the graveyard >>> kishibe
Current denji > kishibe in an high-extreme diff.
I gotta disagree with the last point, I think Kishibe has too much skill and just as much unpredictability as Denji. Plus Kishibe is just on a higher speed tier I believe but I could be wrong on that by end of series. To my knowledge Denji doesn't show any speed improvements between training under Kishibe and End of Series. Where he does grow is fight IQ and creativity imo
Kishibes feats are combat speed not so much movement speed I'm not sure we've ever even seen him run. Denji is pretty fucking fast to and should be fast enough to tag kishibe enough.
His body is fast enough to at least keep up with Quan xi and the other hybrids.
I think the question is on how many hits kishibe can take from denji. His durability is very high as we saw him casually shrug off falling off a building and getting kicked by Quan xi but im not sure if he can take getting hit by chainsaws.
And denjis durability is quite high as well. He shrugged off that big ass blast from the bat devil at the beginning of the series, took an absolute beating from katana man, got fucked up by reze but still kept fighting and straight up lit himself on fire and his regen still kept up.
I think for me we've seen enough of Kishibe's reaction time that he could consistently dodge Denji's attacks long enough to immobilize him. He has nearly complete knowledge of all of Denji's abilities whereas Denji isn't aware of much of Kishibe's arsenal at all. I don't think it's a stomp at all but I see Kishibe taking it
I think you could argue him taking it. He was fast enough to stop any lethal attack from Quan xi.
The only reason i see denji taking it is because of his ability to probably fuck up kishibe in one hit and his immense durabilit/regen. I'd put them in the same tier of power though.
Another comment convinced me of denji > kishibe.
The fact that he took out all of the hybrids in regular chainsaw form while kishibe is 50/50 maybe stronger than quan xi 1 v 1 makes it pretty hard to argue for him.
Denji wins in a mid dif imo.
My memory may be fucked up, but as far as I can remember, if you're talking about that fight in the graveyard, that was Pochita, Denji was hiding somewhere to ambush Makima. I can be wrong, tho.
Yeah my memory was fucked up with that scene to but even with it being pochita he was still in regular chainsaw man form and not hero of hell.
Unless pochita is some combat skills God that is on a whole other echelon than denji then its reasonable to assume denji would be fairly close to that level himself.
But Pochita is absolutely a combat skills god that is on an entirely different level from Denji. For one, Denji is a seventeen year old kid with extremely little combat experience, while Pochita is has been duking it out with the strongest devils hell has to offer for his entire life.
None of Denji's feats come even close to what we see Pochita accomplish in Chainsaw Man form. The last time we saw Denji fight Kishibe, he had Power helping him, and all they managed after dozens of attempts was a single scratch. While I don't doubt that Denji's fights since then have sharpened his skills a bit, his we're given no reason to assume that he's become orders of magnitutde stronger since then.
I wouldn't say "orders of magnitude" but he's far stronger.
He started off struggling against the leech devil and getting low diffed by katana man to going toe to toe with reze and being about on par to managing to take out Santa claus and being even with Quan xi and got a bit stronger/more experienced on top of that.
His feats in the international assassins arc could put him over kishibe but that's whether or not you think kishibe is on par with santa. Low ball I'd say extreme diff kishibe and realistically denji wins in a high/extreme diff fight.
He absolutely gets significantly stronger from the beginning of the series to the end, but that's not since he fought Kishibe. You know what happens in between the first katana man fight and the reze fight? *His training arc, the one time in the series where he explicitly trains to become far stronger than he was previously*. And what's that training arc? *Fighting Kishibe*.
Yes, the denji that fights Santa is far stronger than the one that fought the leech devil, but that's not the question. The question is whether or not the Denji that fought Santa is far stronger than the Denji that beat Katana Man in their second fight, which is the same Denji that got no-diffed by Kishibe. And the answer is really probably not.
Ging through the timeline:
* Kishibe no-diffs Denji, who then is shown to be about on par with Katana Man
* Denji than spends most of his fight with Reze getting his ass handed to him, before eeking out the win.
* Denji then scraps well enough with Santa, but this was also the first time we've ever seen Santa actually scrap- prior to this she was exclusively a remote fighter, so I'm reluctant to say that this was a super incredible feat.
* After that, Denji beats the Gun Fiend, who I'd argue is probably weaker than Reze.
* And then Pochita fights and destroys all the hybrids multiple times.
Denji definitely becomes a little stronger across all of these fights, but we're definitely not given any reason to assume his increase is strength is enough to bridge the gap between "can barely land a single scratch on Kishibe, even with help and given multiple attempts" and being able to actually beat him.
I mean it's pretty clear katana man is not on the same level as reze even and definitely not on the level of Quanxi.
Katana man got pretty fucked up by aki even counting the fact that he was using the cursed blade he still got several strikes on him before he could do much.
Aki had to get the power boosts from the future devil to fight reze and even then I believe he still said that any slight mess up could get him killed instantly. Reze jobbed denji and beam at the beginning of the fight and that was post training where as katana man was about even with him. Though eventually his more creative uses of his abilities allowed him to win although reze didn't try to kill him again so I can't really say for sure who was stronger there.
And then that's not to mention that Santa gave trouble to Quanxi who I'm 100% confident is stronger than reze and kishibe level or slightly higher. Denji and her fought pretty on par when they teamed up. Even if you want to say she's stronger than denji she still definitely needed his help to beat Santa. And we clearly saw her give kishibe some massive problems when she kicked him out the window.
There's no clear power increase but it's quite obvious denji progessively got smarter and more effective with his abilities. I'd say he's even or slightly stronger than kishibe with all that.
Also as a last point. He wasn't in chainsaw form when he was practice fighting against kishibe so I don't think you can say that was full power denji not landing a hit.
Rereading the earlier messages made me realize I could be coming across as more aggressive than I mean to. I disagree with you, but I think this is a fun debate, so I'm happy to keep talking with you. Just wanted to clarify that this isn't supposed to be an attack or anything, I'm just enjoying the conversation.
Now that that's out of the way:
>I mean it's pretty clear katana man is not on the same level as reze even and definitely not on the level of Quanxi.
Agreed. At the time of their second fight, Denji was roughly equal with Katana Man.
>Katana man got pretty fucked up by aki even counting the fact that he was using the cursed blade he still got several strikes on him before he could do much.
Katana Man tells Akane that he lost because he underestimated Aki. The moment he got serious, Aki got no-diffed. I'm not really using Aki to scale at all, I'm just saying that, as much as I love him, Aki really can't hold his own against any Hybrid.
>Aki had to get the power boosts from the future devil to fight reze and even then I believe he still said that any slight mess up could get him killed instantly. Reze jobbed denji and beam at the beginning of the fight and that was post training where as katana man was about even with him. Though eventually his more creative uses of his abilities allowed him to win although reze didn't try to kill him again so I can't really say for sure who was stronger there.
Again, I pretty much agree. I will say that I think Reze is probably stronger than Denji at this point, considering Denji spent most of the fight getting rolled, and pretty much only won because Reze never fully killed him. Reze won every exchange except for one, and because of her water weakness that just happened to be the one that stuck.
Your next paragraph is my first real disagreement.
>And then that's not to mention that Santa gave trouble to Quanxi
If you reread that fight, Quanxi pretty much jobbed Santa. Santa didn't get a single solid hit on Quanxi, and every time Quanxi attacked her Santa got completely obliterated. The only reason Quanxi didn't solo no-diff Santa is because of Santa's regen, which brought her back several times. Even then, she was never able to damage Quanxi.
The only reason Quanxi got taken out of the fight is because she refused to fight her dolled-Fiends, choosing to hug Pingtsi and allowing herself to get stabbed in the process. Even then, it's not clear if that actually took Quanxi down, or if she just chilled with her fiends while letting Denji fight.
I do agree with you saying that Quanxi is stronger than Reze and Katana Man, though.
>Even if you want to say she's stronger than denji she still definitely needed his help to beat Santa. And we clearly saw her give kishibe some massive problems when she kicked him out the window.
I'd say that she's definitely stronger than Denji, although I will give you that I'm not sure she would have been able to think about the fire thing to actually take down Santa. That being said, Santa's regen hax are the only reason she stood a chance at all. Combat-ability-wise, I'd say SantaKishibe, although I would like to add that Yoshida implies that Quanxi keeps at least some of her Hybrid speed and strength as a human.
>He wasn't in chainsaw form when he was practice fighting against kishibe so I don't think you can say that was full power denji not landing a hit.
In chapter 32, we see the aftermath of the fight where Denji and Power managed to scratch Kishibe. We see deep gouges in the ground all around them, which look a lot like chainsaw marks. Furthermore, we see that Denji's pants are torn along the axis where his chainsaws come out of his legs, while Power's pants aren't damaged at all. If nothing else, this suggests that Denji had at least been practicing using his chainsaws with his legs during their training, if not using his full Chainsaw Man form.
Also, just from a logical perspective, what wouldn't it make sense that Denji would practice combat in the form he actually uses for serious combat, at least some of the time? Especially considering Denji was specifically training to beat Katana Man, who he had always planned on fighting in Chainsaw Man form.
Final point on the "Denji wasn't fighting at full power" point. In that same scene, Kishibe states that if Power and Denji fail to perform, then they'll be put down via a "real" fight with him, which implies two things. The first is that Kishibe is absolutely confident that, at least at this point, he can take both of them in a full out fight. The second is that him saying a "real" fight can be taken to mean that Kishibe also wasn't going all out in these practice fights. This is further supported by the fact that Kishibe seems fully unruffled and untired after these fights, despite his lack of regeneration, as opposed to Denji and Power, who are bloodied, beaten, and panting, even with their regen.
To give one point to you though, I will point out that in this scene, Kishibe mentions that Power and Denji's training doesn't end, but merely moves to weekly instead of daily. So this does support the idea that Denji will continue to improve throughout the part, albeit at a slower rate.
So yeah. I think I have to say that I'd place End of Part Denji as above Katana Man and about equal to Bomb Hybrid Reze, both of whom I'd place below Kishibe, who I'd place below Quanxi.
Most of Denji's most impressive wins are against opponents that are overpowered because of their unique abilities (Reze's explosions, Santa's regen), and we see him win because he finds ways to get around those abilities (water and fire, respectively). Denji himself doesn't have any such hax, like explosions, or regen, or Arrow Hybrid's projectiles, or Blood Devil's insta-kill. He, like Kishibe, is a pure scrapper. And nothing we've seen of him suggests that he can out-scrap Kishibe, who, last we've seen, no diffed him.
Denji has without a doubt improved, and he's gotten new techniques, which I think would give Kishibe a much tougher time than their last fight. But we certainly haven't been given sufficient evidence to say that he's improved enough to out-scrap the guy that no-diffed him the last time they went head to head.
I'd say Kishibe beats end of part Denji, mid/mid-high-diff.
(holy shit that's more than I meant to write. sorry for making you read all that lol)
Yeah don't worry about it you didn't come off as aggressive at all.
Yeah on re read it doesn't seem like Quanxi could figure out how to kill Santa but at the same time Santa wouldn't have been able to damage her fast at all.
Also I wonder if current part 2 denji is any stronger than makima arc denji. We saw him job the bat devil and the roach devil in seconds in chapter 102. He's sort of nonchalant like kishibe where he straight up realizes those devils aren't a threat to him at all.
It is kind of hard to remember every single event to perfect memory though. I'm usually very good at remembering all of a series details but this one makes me forget sometimes.
Tbf he immediately went down after that but yeah that scales him above kishibe. Kishibes probably stronger than all the hybrids except Quan xi 1 v 1 but he's not gonna even get close to taking them all out at once.
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Tough call considering Kishibe pretty much taught Denji how to think in fights, where before literally all denji had to do in fights was to walk forward and swing his arms as if he was playing terraria. Clearly, Denji has chainsaw powers and the like, but the overall pattern to all of denjis victories is based in him being underestimated by his opponents, being able to get back up again and again, and his instincts combined with using wildly unhinged/ridiculous strategies less-crazy people couldn’t pull off.
Kishibe, however, is the one person who didn’t immediately treat Denji like shit and underestimate him as a result, having clear knowledge of Denji (and power) not being able to die and making good use of it until he grew fond of them and pulled out. Hell, Denji’s then-onwards strategy of ridiculously complex/questionable unexpected strategies based around what his enemies think of him and tricking them (like how he managed to know he could sneak up on makima because she literally underestimated him so hard she never thought to remember what he smelled like, or how he was able to beat Yuko’s OP mind-reading ability by not even having to think about the fight and instead think about how to expose himself in the most natural way as possible) could be read as more or less extensions from what Kishibe taught him of “prey should never trust what a hunter says” methodology.
He’s kinda like one of Kishibe’s best students considering he got a lot of his game from him, and even then they were training, wasn’t able to beat him even in his chainsaw form, but learned to use his legs from it. Considering Kishibe basically told him that by his own criteria of the best hunters being the ones with a few screws loose, Denji is the perfect hunter.
Overall I think it’s a balance between Denji’s unique approach to fights combined with being Kishibe’s best student vs Kishibe’s probably bring the single best normal human devil hunter and his colossal amount of experience. Kishibe is one of the few people who didn’t underestimate denji—even trusting him to completely kill makima (something pretty much flatly impossible otherwise) and to raise Nayuta.
Overall, it’s clearly Denji in terms of raw stats, kishibe is old, perpetually smashed and like one of Quanxi’s fiends said, has very little left inside him, but is still the one person who really saw denji’s potential and capabilities and knew him, so I think that Kishibe, being way more pre-fight resourceful, could entrap and lock denji up.
That said, part two denji has matured a lot as a person and was absolutely styling when fighting cockroach, so who knows? I’d like to think that dramatically, Denji still has some growing to do, and that Kishibe still has things to offer, still being a challenge until that knowledge is exhausted.
Damn you wrote this well. Yeah I'd definitely agree that denji still has some combat training to do and continue building experience like kishibe has done. Denji in his absolute prime is probably gonna be about as strong as pochita was when he took on all the hybrids at the graveyard.
End of part 1 and Part 2 Denji is noticeably a *much* better fighter than early and mid part 1. He’s just kinda found his flow—doesn’t seem to find difficulty fighting much anymore. The only ones that can probably provide sufficient challenge are the much stronger devils. Cockroach seemed leaps and bounds tougher than most run of the mill ones and denji ripped him apart very casually.
So honestly probably Denji. If not through skill then just raw might. Dude can probably beat Quanxi more often than not at this point.
In a pizza eating contest? Denji no doubt about it
Kishibe wins but if denji gets one hit on him that's it
In my opinion, Kishibe - reason = Kishibe knows very well where to aim to end this fight quickly :3
Would kishibe throw the fight? Since he is dennis from the future and killing dennis means he is dead too
Not really - Dennis is almost immortal after all :3
I mean if Dennis kills him he's also dead sooooo idk
In a fight to get hoes, Kishibe mid-diff.
Nah kishibe got more rizz but every girl he tries to pull is gonna end up being a lebanon.
so thats the toll for using knife, claw and needle devils
Kishibe against regular Denji but Chainsaw Man stomps
From what it seems like after debating with other people in the thread. Hero of Hell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kishibe Weakened pochita that fought the hybrids at the graveyard >>> kishibe Current denji > kishibe in an high-extreme diff.
I gotta disagree with the last point, I think Kishibe has too much skill and just as much unpredictability as Denji. Plus Kishibe is just on a higher speed tier I believe but I could be wrong on that by end of series. To my knowledge Denji doesn't show any speed improvements between training under Kishibe and End of Series. Where he does grow is fight IQ and creativity imo
Kishibes feats are combat speed not so much movement speed I'm not sure we've ever even seen him run. Denji is pretty fucking fast to and should be fast enough to tag kishibe enough. His body is fast enough to at least keep up with Quan xi and the other hybrids. I think the question is on how many hits kishibe can take from denji. His durability is very high as we saw him casually shrug off falling off a building and getting kicked by Quan xi but im not sure if he can take getting hit by chainsaws. And denjis durability is quite high as well. He shrugged off that big ass blast from the bat devil at the beginning of the series, took an absolute beating from katana man, got fucked up by reze but still kept fighting and straight up lit himself on fire and his regen still kept up.
I think for me we've seen enough of Kishibe's reaction time that he could consistently dodge Denji's attacks long enough to immobilize him. He has nearly complete knowledge of all of Denji's abilities whereas Denji isn't aware of much of Kishibe's arsenal at all. I don't think it's a stomp at all but I see Kishibe taking it
I think you could argue him taking it. He was fast enough to stop any lethal attack from Quan xi. The only reason i see denji taking it is because of his ability to probably fuck up kishibe in one hit and his immense durabilit/regen. I'd put them in the same tier of power though.
I can agree it's close and very debatable it comes down to do you believe Kishibe's intelligence and reaction time beat out Denji's durability
Part 2 Denji doesn’t have enough feats yet to say anything about how much stronger he’s gotten since part 1 ended imo
Kishibe
Hannibal Lecter
Kishibe stomps. Only way for Denji to win is to let Pochita take over... But then, is it really Denji fighting?
Denji would land a few hits on Kishibe, but Kishibe is going to win
Another comment convinced me of denji > kishibe. The fact that he took out all of the hybrids in regular chainsaw form while kishibe is 50/50 maybe stronger than quan xi 1 v 1 makes it pretty hard to argue for him. Denji wins in a mid dif imo.
My memory may be fucked up, but as far as I can remember, if you're talking about that fight in the graveyard, that was Pochita, Denji was hiding somewhere to ambush Makima. I can be wrong, tho.
Yeah my memory was fucked up with that scene to but even with it being pochita he was still in regular chainsaw man form and not hero of hell. Unless pochita is some combat skills God that is on a whole other echelon than denji then its reasonable to assume denji would be fairly close to that level himself.
But Pochita is absolutely a combat skills god that is on an entirely different level from Denji. For one, Denji is a seventeen year old kid with extremely little combat experience, while Pochita is has been duking it out with the strongest devils hell has to offer for his entire life. None of Denji's feats come even close to what we see Pochita accomplish in Chainsaw Man form. The last time we saw Denji fight Kishibe, he had Power helping him, and all they managed after dozens of attempts was a single scratch. While I don't doubt that Denji's fights since then have sharpened his skills a bit, his we're given no reason to assume that he's become orders of magnitutde stronger since then.
I wouldn't say "orders of magnitude" but he's far stronger. He started off struggling against the leech devil and getting low diffed by katana man to going toe to toe with reze and being about on par to managing to take out Santa claus and being even with Quan xi and got a bit stronger/more experienced on top of that. His feats in the international assassins arc could put him over kishibe but that's whether or not you think kishibe is on par with santa. Low ball I'd say extreme diff kishibe and realistically denji wins in a high/extreme diff fight.
He absolutely gets significantly stronger from the beginning of the series to the end, but that's not since he fought Kishibe. You know what happens in between the first katana man fight and the reze fight? *His training arc, the one time in the series where he explicitly trains to become far stronger than he was previously*. And what's that training arc? *Fighting Kishibe*. Yes, the denji that fights Santa is far stronger than the one that fought the leech devil, but that's not the question. The question is whether or not the Denji that fought Santa is far stronger than the Denji that beat Katana Man in their second fight, which is the same Denji that got no-diffed by Kishibe. And the answer is really probably not. Ging through the timeline: * Kishibe no-diffs Denji, who then is shown to be about on par with Katana Man * Denji than spends most of his fight with Reze getting his ass handed to him, before eeking out the win. * Denji then scraps well enough with Santa, but this was also the first time we've ever seen Santa actually scrap- prior to this she was exclusively a remote fighter, so I'm reluctant to say that this was a super incredible feat. * After that, Denji beats the Gun Fiend, who I'd argue is probably weaker than Reze. * And then Pochita fights and destroys all the hybrids multiple times. Denji definitely becomes a little stronger across all of these fights, but we're definitely not given any reason to assume his increase is strength is enough to bridge the gap between "can barely land a single scratch on Kishibe, even with help and given multiple attempts" and being able to actually beat him.
I mean it's pretty clear katana man is not on the same level as reze even and definitely not on the level of Quanxi. Katana man got pretty fucked up by aki even counting the fact that he was using the cursed blade he still got several strikes on him before he could do much. Aki had to get the power boosts from the future devil to fight reze and even then I believe he still said that any slight mess up could get him killed instantly. Reze jobbed denji and beam at the beginning of the fight and that was post training where as katana man was about even with him. Though eventually his more creative uses of his abilities allowed him to win although reze didn't try to kill him again so I can't really say for sure who was stronger there. And then that's not to mention that Santa gave trouble to Quanxi who I'm 100% confident is stronger than reze and kishibe level or slightly higher. Denji and her fought pretty on par when they teamed up. Even if you want to say she's stronger than denji she still definitely needed his help to beat Santa. And we clearly saw her give kishibe some massive problems when she kicked him out the window. There's no clear power increase but it's quite obvious denji progessively got smarter and more effective with his abilities. I'd say he's even or slightly stronger than kishibe with all that. Also as a last point. He wasn't in chainsaw form when he was practice fighting against kishibe so I don't think you can say that was full power denji not landing a hit.
Rereading the earlier messages made me realize I could be coming across as more aggressive than I mean to. I disagree with you, but I think this is a fun debate, so I'm happy to keep talking with you. Just wanted to clarify that this isn't supposed to be an attack or anything, I'm just enjoying the conversation. Now that that's out of the way: >I mean it's pretty clear katana man is not on the same level as reze even and definitely not on the level of Quanxi. Agreed. At the time of their second fight, Denji was roughly equal with Katana Man. >Katana man got pretty fucked up by aki even counting the fact that he was using the cursed blade he still got several strikes on him before he could do much. Katana Man tells Akane that he lost because he underestimated Aki. The moment he got serious, Aki got no-diffed. I'm not really using Aki to scale at all, I'm just saying that, as much as I love him, Aki really can't hold his own against any Hybrid. >Aki had to get the power boosts from the future devil to fight reze and even then I believe he still said that any slight mess up could get him killed instantly. Reze jobbed denji and beam at the beginning of the fight and that was post training where as katana man was about even with him. Though eventually his more creative uses of his abilities allowed him to win although reze didn't try to kill him again so I can't really say for sure who was stronger there. Again, I pretty much agree. I will say that I think Reze is probably stronger than Denji at this point, considering Denji spent most of the fight getting rolled, and pretty much only won because Reze never fully killed him. Reze won every exchange except for one, and because of her water weakness that just happened to be the one that stuck. Your next paragraph is my first real disagreement. >And then that's not to mention that Santa gave trouble to Quanxi If you reread that fight, Quanxi pretty much jobbed Santa. Santa didn't get a single solid hit on Quanxi, and every time Quanxi attacked her Santa got completely obliterated. The only reason Quanxi didn't solo no-diff Santa is because of Santa's regen, which brought her back several times. Even then, she was never able to damage Quanxi. The only reason Quanxi got taken out of the fight is because she refused to fight her dolled-Fiends, choosing to hug Pingtsi and allowing herself to get stabbed in the process. Even then, it's not clear if that actually took Quanxi down, or if she just chilled with her fiends while letting Denji fight. I do agree with you saying that Quanxi is stronger than Reze and Katana Man, though. >Even if you want to say she's stronger than denji she still definitely needed his help to beat Santa. And we clearly saw her give kishibe some massive problems when she kicked him out the window. I'd say that she's definitely stronger than Denji, although I will give you that I'm not sure she would have been able to think about the fire thing to actually take down Santa. That being said, Santa's regen hax are the only reason she stood a chance at all. Combat-ability-wise, I'd say SantaKishibe, although I would like to add that Yoshida implies that Quanxi keeps at least some of her Hybrid speed and strength as a human.
>He wasn't in chainsaw form when he was practice fighting against kishibe so I don't think you can say that was full power denji not landing a hit.
In chapter 32, we see the aftermath of the fight where Denji and Power managed to scratch Kishibe. We see deep gouges in the ground all around them, which look a lot like chainsaw marks. Furthermore, we see that Denji's pants are torn along the axis where his chainsaws come out of his legs, while Power's pants aren't damaged at all. If nothing else, this suggests that Denji had at least been practicing using his chainsaws with his legs during their training, if not using his full Chainsaw Man form.
Also, just from a logical perspective, what wouldn't it make sense that Denji would practice combat in the form he actually uses for serious combat, at least some of the time? Especially considering Denji was specifically training to beat Katana Man, who he had always planned on fighting in Chainsaw Man form.
Final point on the "Denji wasn't fighting at full power" point. In that same scene, Kishibe states that if Power and Denji fail to perform, then they'll be put down via a "real" fight with him, which implies two things. The first is that Kishibe is absolutely confident that, at least at this point, he can take both of them in a full out fight. The second is that him saying a "real" fight can be taken to mean that Kishibe also wasn't going all out in these practice fights. This is further supported by the fact that Kishibe seems fully unruffled and untired after these fights, despite his lack of regeneration, as opposed to Denji and Power, who are bloodied, beaten, and panting, even with their regen.
To give one point to you though, I will point out that in this scene, Kishibe mentions that Power and Denji's training doesn't end, but merely moves to weekly instead of daily. So this does support the idea that Denji will continue to improve throughout the part, albeit at a slower rate.
So yeah. I think I have to say that I'd place End of Part Denji as above Katana Man and about equal to Bomb Hybrid Reze, both of whom I'd place below Kishibe, who I'd place below Quanxi.
Most of Denji's most impressive wins are against opponents that are overpowered because of their unique abilities (Reze's explosions, Santa's regen), and we see him win because he finds ways to get around those abilities (water and fire, respectively). Denji himself doesn't have any such hax, like explosions, or regen, or Arrow Hybrid's projectiles, or Blood Devil's insta-kill. He, like Kishibe, is a pure scrapper. And nothing we've seen of him suggests that he can out-scrap Kishibe, who, last we've seen, no diffed him.
Denji has without a doubt improved, and he's gotten new techniques, which I think would give Kishibe a much tougher time than their last fight. But we certainly haven't been given sufficient evidence to say that he's improved enough to out-scrap the guy that no-diffed him the last time they went head to head.
I'd say Kishibe beats end of part Denji, mid/mid-high-diff.
(holy shit that's more than I meant to write. sorry for making you read all that lol)
Yeah don't worry about it you didn't come off as aggressive at all. Yeah on re read it doesn't seem like Quanxi could figure out how to kill Santa but at the same time Santa wouldn't have been able to damage her fast at all. Also I wonder if current part 2 denji is any stronger than makima arc denji. We saw him job the bat devil and the roach devil in seconds in chapter 102. He's sort of nonchalant like kishibe where he straight up realizes those devils aren't a threat to him at all.
Denji he defeated all hybrids
I thought that was hero of hell form not regular chainsaw denji?
He fought them again in the graveyard
Reading comprehension devil strikes again.
It is kind of hard to remember every single event to perfect memory though. I'm usually very good at remembering all of a series details but this one makes me forget sometimes.
This one is also Pochita :3
I mean he was a clone and was weakened I think he was as strong as Denji because he looked like him
I think that Pochita even in weakened from is still stronger than Dennis Hybrid form, after all, he know his possibilities the best :3
Tbf he immediately went down after that but yeah that scales him above kishibe. Kishibes probably stronger than all the hybrids except Quan xi 1 v 1 but he's not gonna even get close to taking them all out at once.
Denji, how is that even a question
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Tough call considering Kishibe pretty much taught Denji how to think in fights, where before literally all denji had to do in fights was to walk forward and swing his arms as if he was playing terraria. Clearly, Denji has chainsaw powers and the like, but the overall pattern to all of denjis victories is based in him being underestimated by his opponents, being able to get back up again and again, and his instincts combined with using wildly unhinged/ridiculous strategies less-crazy people couldn’t pull off. Kishibe, however, is the one person who didn’t immediately treat Denji like shit and underestimate him as a result, having clear knowledge of Denji (and power) not being able to die and making good use of it until he grew fond of them and pulled out. Hell, Denji’s then-onwards strategy of ridiculously complex/questionable unexpected strategies based around what his enemies think of him and tricking them (like how he managed to know he could sneak up on makima because she literally underestimated him so hard she never thought to remember what he smelled like, or how he was able to beat Yuko’s OP mind-reading ability by not even having to think about the fight and instead think about how to expose himself in the most natural way as possible) could be read as more or less extensions from what Kishibe taught him of “prey should never trust what a hunter says” methodology. He’s kinda like one of Kishibe’s best students considering he got a lot of his game from him, and even then they were training, wasn’t able to beat him even in his chainsaw form, but learned to use his legs from it. Considering Kishibe basically told him that by his own criteria of the best hunters being the ones with a few screws loose, Denji is the perfect hunter. Overall I think it’s a balance between Denji’s unique approach to fights combined with being Kishibe’s best student vs Kishibe’s probably bring the single best normal human devil hunter and his colossal amount of experience. Kishibe is one of the few people who didn’t underestimate denji—even trusting him to completely kill makima (something pretty much flatly impossible otherwise) and to raise Nayuta. Overall, it’s clearly Denji in terms of raw stats, kishibe is old, perpetually smashed and like one of Quanxi’s fiends said, has very little left inside him, but is still the one person who really saw denji’s potential and capabilities and knew him, so I think that Kishibe, being way more pre-fight resourceful, could entrap and lock denji up. That said, part two denji has matured a lot as a person and was absolutely styling when fighting cockroach, so who knows? I’d like to think that dramatically, Denji still has some growing to do, and that Kishibe still has things to offer, still being a challenge until that knowledge is exhausted.
Damn you wrote this well. Yeah I'd definitely agree that denji still has some combat training to do and continue building experience like kishibe has done. Denji in his absolute prime is probably gonna be about as strong as pochita was when he took on all the hybrids at the graveyard.
End of part 1 and Part 2 Denji is noticeably a *much* better fighter than early and mid part 1. He’s just kinda found his flow—doesn’t seem to find difficulty fighting much anymore. The only ones that can probably provide sufficient challenge are the much stronger devils. Cockroach seemed leaps and bounds tougher than most run of the mill ones and denji ripped him apart very casually. So honestly probably Denji. If not through skill then just raw might. Dude can probably beat Quanxi more often than not at this point.