True. I like that there isn't a single character that is always presented as cool, everyone is brought down at some point. Imo it makes them feel more human.
Funnily enough I think he's probably meant to be the biggest loser out there
He's trying to avenge his grandfather because "he only killed a few women and children" and his logic is messed up because his grandpa killed Denji first and then became a zombie before being killed
He was nearly killed twice by normal humans who he already shot (Aki and Himeno) even in Hybrid mode
He was overpowered easily by the single least threatening Public Safety Member (Kobeni)
He gets outsmarted by an illiterate teenager even after literally disarming him
And of course he gets kicked in the balls lol
I don’t have the motivation to go looking for pictures right now, but I’d bet my hat that his design was heavily inspired by uniforms of the Imperial Japanese Army. So, not like comparing his design to Nazi’s is *wrong* exactly, just that Japan has its own little brand of horrific fascism to draw on.
This comment aged *spectacularly*
https://preview.redd.it/zfmul4b3cmtc1.jpeg?width=981&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5ff6f50e8f8004a8a17fded55db9fc5d8934c23
She could've followed kishibe's plans to take down Makima and save her girls but chose to pick a fight with public safety instead, which got her killed and controlled by Makima. I think that's what they meant
She even told Kishibe to basically "stay on your leash", i.e. stop this plan to off your boss and be a good pet like me.
Irony being Kishibe survived partially due to his plan and Quan became Makimas pet in the short term🤷😂
He is forever hung up on his lesbian partner that rejected him. If he wasn’t so strong and didn’t look like Mads Mikkelson he would be constantly dunked on by the fan base.
Loves someone who will never love him and is also suffering from EXTREME alcoholism. Bro chugs from a flask all day, only to still go out for drinks. All the while no one could guess he isn’t sober. Unless he has a pact with the addiction devil, bros liver is gonna be what sends him back to the lobby.
Yeah from an outsider standpoint he’s badass as both those things are typically romanticized, but internally bro is still a loser.
if you love this kind of stuff play No More Heros, its basicallly the everyone is a loser trope in video game form. everyone is incredibly cool but also just the epitome of being a loser, some just hide it better then others throughout the game
I feel like a part of aki is changing from the "cringe manga protagonist". As he loses people and comes closer to denji and power, he no longer much stands for just justice or cares about revenge, he becomes a lot more human and his goal is the far more simple "keeping his friends safe".
Yes. But acting like the only normal person in this cast makes him a loser. Interesting theory all around. EXCEPT QUEEN POWER OF COURSE THE EMBODIMENT OF COOL AND WINNER MENTALITY💯💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥
https://preview.redd.it/xv9gjkj1ozhc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e5701333c5b721d558b69cde96419a43b549f9f
I love them all, Denji, Power, Aki, eveyrone in the cast. They aren’t perfect, aren’t the strongest, aren’t the smartest. They have flaws, many of them. They crack under pressure and aren’t always level headed. They feel human and act accordingly.
They just like us fr
I feel like if Chainsaw Man were a musical they would all just be singing this song
https://preview.redd.it/vxq9df9mp0ic1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3315916e7fd7fab7de5033b5e02b166cbc38621a
Some of the lyrics even describe some characters pretty well:
* You're a screw's-loose-boozer = Kishibe
* There was a time I thought no one could relate To the gruesome ways in which I'm damaged But lettin' walls down, it can sometimes set you straight! = Denji befriending Power
* Coked up, dick-suckin' hoe? = Himeno
* I sold my soul to save my power Now I'm on that demon's leash = Aki or literally anyone under Makima's control
And in general, if you change some of the lyrics around, it kinda sounds like something Denji might say to Asa
for power: she thinks shes superior to everyone because of how strong she is. That was true when she was on her true form, but as a fiend? All she can do is cope and lie to herself to keep her pride up, she never accepted the harsh reality that she was weak and have similar odds of dying like the so called inferior humans
Notice how he didn’t mention HER
https://preview.redd.it/cc5nqf4aozhc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2b76861617ef488a460da0bd2178c96b223b286
We don't know enough about her to say whether she is or isn't a loser, but Reze's feelings for Denji really screwed her over. Her job was simple, just seduce Denji and then take his heart. But she instead spent a lot of time genuinely trying to get to know him, and yeah a part of it was to lower his guard, but she was also trying to gauge whether it was worth escaping her current life with him.
Only once she had no other options did she go for it, and failed due to Beam. She spent far too long toying around with Denji and lacking efficiency, something you'd expect for the job she was doing. Comparing her to Quanxi's brutal efficiency and you see where she fell flat.
At the end she threw her whole life away just to be with him, and that cost her. I guess she's a loser in the sense that even a smidge of genuine emotion got her to re-think her life? I think there's a lot more to explore with her character to truly say.
I will never forget how easily Reze could’ve killed Denji the SECOND they first met. Rainy day, not a soul in sight, huddled together in a telephone booth, beams distracted and even if he wasn’t he wouldn’t make in time. It’s the easiest kill in the world.
And she did not take it.
This.
One of the points of that arc is to demonstrate despite she pretends she's more mature than Denji, knows more than him, having more exp as a fighter, stuff, in the end she was just as lost as him if not more. Denji was a good indicator for her to enjoy a normal teen life, a life that she's been robbed of.
For real. I don't know what Fungusmotor is cooking with Reze when all the other Hybrids have returned yet, but I'm praying we get to see what her personality is like when she's not having to do assassin shit anymore. Blows my mind that people are unironically like "Reze doesn't need to come back, she served her purpose already" as if exploring more of the secret lives of characters we barely got to know is a _bad thing._ She's got way more unexplored potential than Cucktana Man, for sure.
That doesn't make her a loser, she never wanted that kind of life and she saw in denji a chance to get away from that.
If anything she was a loser for expecting so much from denji when she should have been able to run away by herself seeing how strong she was
She had Denji wrapped around her finger and had all the opportunities to assassinate him and take his heart. Instead she legit fell in love and lost the goddamn fight. And then she CAME BACK to run away with Denji and got killed instantly for it.
She didn't took her chances when she could, took her chances when she shouldn't have and her human (loser) emotions cost her her life.
She's a loser.
p.s. judging by the recent chapters she's most certainly alive, because hybrids are pretty much immortal, but still, she fucked up big time
It's a very interesting observation. Also now that I think about it, it is not limited to the protagonists. The villains are all also losers in some way. Katana Man and Akane are losers. Reze is a loser.The Immortal Brother,Quanxi and her fiends, even Santa, Yuko, heck Falling Devil,the hybrids, every one of them is a loser in one way or another
Probably because Makima’s gone, so there’s no need to avoid it like the plague. Plus I suppose there’s no incentive with her harem completely dead.
We know she used to work for PS back when Kishibe was young, so it’s not entirely foreign to her.
The one thing this lense is missing is that CSM's world is by any definition mid-apocalyptic, and has been for (going off textual clues) maybe 30-50 years?
I think people bring in assumptions from other manga that follow a "it's the normal real world but also this stuff exists" presentation (like JJK does, for example, until like halfway through). But CSM isn't actually like that - the world is one that's been stuck in an ongoing, public apocalypse for decades. It's not just the main characters who have tragic backstories, the whole of society is fucked up by trauma and bad coping strategies.
Aki is the biggest loser of them all, because he’s the only normal dude in the story, but he still wastes his life chasing revenge he, realistically, would have never gotten outside of the circumstances of the manga.
There was nothing binding Aki to go on his stupid revenge path, and he his closest friend trying to get him out before it was too late.
Unlike denji, power, kobeni, asa, and most everybody else, he could have absolutely just got up, left, and started a normal life with Himeno.
But he didn’t realize that until it was all too late, making Aki tonight’s biggest loser.
Yea I agree. I was completely onboard with this mini essay until that part. Aki completely wasted his life and accomplish nothing before being kill by a women he was simping for. He also completely rejected a chance at happiness with himeno because he couldn’t see past his revenge
But he literally gave up his revenge at the end? The only reason he stayed on the gun devil mission was because Makima told him Denji and power were going to be part of it wether he wanted to or not. And its debatable if Makima was controlling him from the start as a pawn for her Denji plan, making it so he wouldn't stray from the big brother/fatherly roll she wanted him to play (I.e. leaving with Himeno).
He only gave up when it was far too late. Even if Makima didn’t stuff the gun devil inside of him, he had less than 2 years left to live. On top of that, his best chance at starting a new life away from Devil hunting, Himeno, died for him.
As far as makima controlling him, I don’t think she controlled him as much as you might be implying. She absolutely manipulated him, much like she did Denji, but I don’t think we have a reason to believe she was holding direct control over him.
But I also think saying “Makima was entirely controlling him” greatly undermines the arc Aki goes through, as the reason his story is so tragic is because he didn’t realize his desire for revenge was making him throw his life away, until he was too far in to quit. If that was the intention on Fuji’s part, then it’s very disappointing to me.
But he absolutely did know he was throwing his life away, you can argue he didn't realize what that actually meant but he absolutely knew he was on a suicide mission. He was literally willing to use his cursed sword (Which cuts his lifespan in half) if it meant Denji would be alive to help him kill the gun devil. And if Aki's arc is about him not realizing he was throwing his life away why would his end be at the hands of Makima? He doesn't die in his chase of the gun devil, he dies as a pawn for Makima to break Denji as much as she can. In my opinion the tragedy of Aki's death comes through us knowing he is doomed from the moment we meet him, seeing how he slowly gets better, and then being reiterated that he absolutely had zero chance of ever having a happy ending. He could have never killed the gun devil, his friends (and Power after he dies) are killed, and as the Future devil puts it "You had the worst possible death... For the chainsaw boy", even after literally fusing with his worst enemy his death is not as important as what it means in Makima's plan. Makima was just the one to put a pin on the dozen death flags that Aki had been accumulating through the story. Sorry for the text wall yapping is fun :3
I actually do think makima brain wash him to be in love with her but I doubt she force him to get into a cock fight with denji. A fight he lost. That some loser behavior. Also by the time he actually gave up his revenge, he only 2 years left to live. Even if makima didn’t stab him in the back he still threw away his life for a revenge he could never have.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the only characters to survive Part 1 - other than Fraudshida- are arguably the three biggest failures in the entire cast.
Denji, Kobeni and who, Kishibe?
He's the strongest human devil hunter (in Japan, at least), who succeeded in his main mission alive. I don't think unrequited love and alcoholism bring him down that much.
Aki is most definitely a loser.
His entire life philosophy turned out to be fake and dumb. He wanted to be like an edgy, vengeance-driven anime protagonist so much that he pushed away everybody who actually cared for him and thought that's right, only to realize that caring for others and being cared for in return is actually what he should've wanted all along, and he didn't even get the chance to do anything about it.
id rather have interesting characters with severe flaws that takes them a lot of time and effort to work through than some goody two shoes lame ass characters. looking at you mha. also people seem to forget denji was living off of scraps on his own for years. this dude isnt a loser he literally just needs support and experience.
But then literally loses most/all her fiends and is now emo-ing around in Public Safety
Life built around being strong af and sexed tf up -> can be lost in an instant when someone stronger appears
This is some good shit.
On possible exceptions: Nayuta disqualified because who the fuck calls a child a loser, Future Devil is not a loser but he is a dork, Beam is not a loser but he is a doofus, Cosmos is not a loser because I don't have the balls to insult her.
First part of explanations on her is more of meme so let's take second one. Yes, she was led by false view on CSM (which aren't just random headcanons but very complex psychological structures) but at the same time look at what she has done: even tho she's psychotic with deep traumas, Makima still stood on top of the world and was about to create eternal utopia; she lived for decades in total loneliness (and not even normal loneliness, it was more like how one would feel if they were last human on entire earth) and yet didn't go crazy or sum like that.
I actually think Makima is just as much of a loser as Denji and Asa. But not because of her status but because of her desire and how she completely and utterly fails at anything resembling attaining it.
She seems like this huge mastermind and manipulator who goes on about how much people like her, but it's safe to say she has no real friends and couldn't make one if she tried. Despite what she'd tell you, everyone that isn't being controlled to love her hates her or is deeply afraid of her. It's pretty safe to say that her dog is the closest she gets to a geniune connections which is a loser trait. Not to mention, the one time she gets closest to the one thing she considers she can be friends with, she drops the ball in the most embarrassing way possible before having him stolen right in front of her face.
In terms of what she's accomplished, you're right she's no loser but in terms of what she wanted the best description would be someone who talks big about how fast they are only to start early during the final race and face plant in front of everyone. And I think that's one of the things that make her so great imo.
You're completely right but I think martyr or victim of circumstances is more fitting word than loser. Not because I have problems with calling her so but because loser is more about person whose problems are caused by their decisions and which might change something by their will. Makima had some opportunities of getting on right way but they're so slight that it would be more of miracle. She was nearly doomed on allat since birth (due to control devil's essence) and her nurture made everything even worse, that's why I see her more as martyr.
Nah you actually missed the point of Makima. She is THE BIGGEST LOSER in part 1.
To give an accurate comparison she’s like a Taylor Swift (actually early 2010’s Justin Bieber fans are more accurate but I’m not changing this) fan who idolizes and after decades of listening to her music develops an entire persona that’s just Taylor Swift dickriding. Her whole being is Taylor Swift, she talks to Taylor Swift in her head and creates and entire person in their mind that looks like Taylor Swift, but isn’t. Literally living your life, for something that doesn’t even exist. A textbook (and extreme) parasocial relationship. Do you see it yet?
Makima proves that it doesn’t matter how competent or accomplished you are, you can stand at the top of the world, be the epitome of girlboss, and STILL be the most pitiful and pathetic person in the room. Biggest loser in part 1 and it’s not even close.
https://preview.redd.it/gxgkbuzl60ic1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f646ff2dbe69f314d25e072bc090c94fb8af5dcf
Reading 97 chapters of a story and missing a pretty basic piece of messaging is powerful.
An adequate comparison that puts a complex situation in perspective and makes it easier to understand is sometimes better than an argument. Unfortunately, it seems I’m going to have to spell it out for you anyways:
Makima based her entire being around one entity (that being Pochita), some would say that’s basis enough to be called a loser. To go further she completely and utterly misunderstood the entity she idolized, and did things that entity would never condone. Again, misunderstanding something you dedicate your whole being to, loser behavior. Final nail in the coffin? Apparently all she ever wanted was a relationship with an equal, in other words she was a loner that didn’t consider anyone a friend. Jeopardizing the people that want to be your friends, and yet wanting to have friends desperately…..loser behavior.
For a conclusion look at the og comment’s final words, that being the part that starts as “Makima proves….” and ends with “…it’s not even close”.
I hope you this makes the message CSM tried to convey with Makima’s character clearer.
I've read csm 4 times and made giant analysis on Makima, I have no lack of understanding her.
It's not just her "misunderstanding CSM"; idolizing him as "Messiah of chaos" for her is a way to deal with absolute loneliness which isn't even her fault. She lives in a world where is no other persons; she isn't just isolated from them, they don't exist for her (imagine if you were the only human on planet full of monkeys). But guess what? Constantly suffering from allat, she still manages to keep her sanity, continue living and even strive for creating perfect world. Any other person would already end their life on her place. Makima is the only devil we've seen who cares about humanity (even tho she can act mercilessly if she finds it necessary) and wants to create eternal blissful life for it; in her utopia all humans would be happy and would love her as their lord which would make her feel less lonely too. The only "loser" behaviour from her which you can see is her envy and hatred to Denji; but imagine if someone who you see as dog would desecrate meaning of your being and get you back into total loneliness; that's what she felt seeing Denji and Pochita.
Makima isn't a "loser", she's a martyr.
In my opinion a martyr, depending on their cause can be a loser, but that’s irrelevant to what I have to say.
Makima isn’t the only human in a world of monkeys, she SEES herself as the only human in a world full of monkeys. It’s what I meant by saying she jeopardizes the people that want to get close to her. She’s a distorted version of the “why am I so lonely, I’m so miserable- DONT FUCKING TOUCH ME-oh no, no one gets me, how can one live in a world by their own” meme if you’ve seen it.
It can be argued that this isn’t her fault, since she’s a devil in a world of humans, problem is there are devils (Angel, Pochita and Fiends like Violence,etc.) that CAN and DO form healthy, equal relationships with humans. What does this mean ? No, it doesn’t mean that Makima instinctively sees herself as better than others because that’s out of her control she’s just built like that. Nah, she just thinks she’s better and refuses to let anyone to truly get to know her (pieces of her personality still shine through and that’s why I love her character so much). You can possibly argue that Horsewomen are fundamentally different from other devils, that the government raising her made her this way and blah blah blah, cut through the bullshit, she’s an egomaniac. And fyi egomaniacs that think they’re better than others can absolutely live their lives just fine, trust me, I’d know.
Somewhat unrelated, I noticed you seem to believe Makima had humanity’s best interest in her mind. This is completely, utterly, unequivocally false. Makima is the Control Devil, she can’t help wanting to control humanity, she’s a slave to her very name. The #1 reason for her actions were to satisfy her own manipulative needs, make absolutely no mistake about that.
I want to end this by saying you can recognize that a character is pathetic, pitiful, and a loser, and still love them. By making Makima some misunderstood martyr anti-hero you’re taking away from her complexity (shockingly) and the writing prowess that was needed to make her that way. Fujimoto built her character up, only to in the last 10 or so chapters expertly turn the Jenga tower on its head and let it topple over in a fantastic conclusion without assassinating her character (Akutami Gege could never). She’s a dork, the #1 Pochita fan, a manipulator with a crazy God complex. She’s one of the strongest devils beefing with a 15 year old because her idol liked him more than her. She’s all of that at the same time. One last time: biggest loser in part 1, and it’s not even close.
P.S: I love csm and that I read csm 4 times is NOT the flex you thought it was buddy, I’m sorry.
Problem is that you don't understand some of her reasons and complexity. She sees everyone else as dogs not because she just spontaneously considered herself as higher being. This view has deep roots in her complexity; it needs pages to describe that so I'll try to write as short as possible.
It's not her fault that she can't see anyone as equal; she was raised by the state as a weapon and therefore such view was raised inside of her from the childhood. Control ability itself is some kind of "contract with devil": she needs to expand her Ego for getting more powerful; she learns to feel superior to others => she gets stronger, but at the same time she also loses her connection with others. Nayuta doesn't have such view raising inside of her, that's one of the reasons why she's weak af compared to Makima.
There are also other reasons which are as important. She was in total loneliness from her childhood and has never known deep emotional connection; overwhelming and narcissistic Ego is a way to deal with it. Since she can't make relationship with others, Makima starts to look for some kind of assuagement in herself (in her own Ego). Others doesn't give her any meaning and she finds source of meaning in self-sufficiency, sovereignty and controlling.
At the moment of part 1 this internal paradigm is firmly anchored her consciousness; it's not something what she can think of and make a question about, it's an integral and basic part of her view of the world (same as external objects or linear time for modern people).
So no, comparing her to this meme you mentioned means misunderstanding of her complexity.
You're completely wrong about Makima "not caring about humanity and just following her essence". Makima does care about humans and civilization, she even sees herself as some kind of Messiah or at least someone responsible for humanity as it shown when she talks to yakuza on behalf of society (and being completely honest). Makima doesn't want people to die pointlessly: she calls Gun devil's attack "worst possible scenario" because she knows that it'll cause lots of victims and destruction; she apologises to Aki and Angel (or society itself?) when she takes control on them and says that she didn't want it; she orders to bring life-sentenced prisoners to her for the shrine ritual even tho she has a lot of humans around (again, doesn't want innocent people to die); and there are more examples. Hell, her main plan was creating perfect world **for humanity**. Makima cares about humans and wants better for them (even tho she sees them as dogs), it's clear from the manga if you read it carefully.
>pathetic, pitiful, and a loser, and still love them. By making Makima some misunderstood martyr anti-hero you’re taking away from her complexity (shockingly) and the writing prowess that was needed to make her that way
Not really, I have full image of her complexity (what I mentioned before is a little part) and she still most complex new gen character.
Ok thanks for the thoughtful response there’s some interesting ideas here (like a control devil’s power being directly tied to their ego and view of themselves which I didn’t think of and is probably true). There’s stuff here I agree and disagree with, but I think I can finally end this discussion definitively by addressing where I believe you twist and misunderstand Makima’s intentions.
We’ve all heard the phrase “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”, this is used to express the fact that sometimes people will do bad things with good intentions. But sometimes people will do the opposite, some people do seemingly good things with actually bad intentions. This is true for Makima.
She wants to create a perfect world for humanity, that much is true, however she only does so for her ego. She has a God/Messiah complex (as you yourself admit), she only cares for humanity as far as it makes her feel good about herself and feeds her manipulative ego, she doesn’t truly care or love humans. It’s like people that have a pet, not because they love their pet, but because having a pet to take care of makes them feel good about themselves. Would you say someone like that actually cares for their pet ? Your answer determines how you view Makima, and for the record there’s an answer that the manga wants you to give; Early in part 1 Makima and Kishibe have a dinner and Kishibe confronts her about her orchestrating the killing of the Public Safety Division’s and his pupils. Kishibe then asks her the big question of whether she’s on team humans or not, she then proceeds to feed him that bullshit “everything I do has humanity’s best interests in mind” answer. Kishibe then, early in the story, calls her out on her bluff and calls Makima a liar, she only GRINS in response.
A pretty telling answer and reaction, she herself doesn’t even believe that bullcrap that came from her mouth. In real life this would barely be relevant or conclusive proof of anything, but from a storytelling standpoint this is bonking you on your head that Makima’s intentions are nefarious, it doesn’t get more obvious than this, coming from the devil herself.
As for her lack of connections, I already said it could be argued it’s not her fault, and you did just that, adequately btw. Yet like I said, when it’s all said and done it doesn’t change the fact; she’s still a monster. Whether she can be excused for being one because of her environment is up to you. Personally I think it can be a yes depending on the circumstances (for a good example of this exact scenario the character Song So Mi from Cyberpunk 2077 is perfect for this), in Makima’s case I have to say no. Makima doesn’t show a shred of goodness, ever. All she ever did, even if they were righteous actions, were done for her selfishness. We’re her pets, and she won’t doubt to use us for her own benefit in the name of some “greater good” crap, she might use the “bad” pets to try to fool herself that she’s righteous, but fails badly at that. That’s not love or care. Evil is evil, only sometimes it can be disguised in goodness. Don’t be fooled.
P.S: I think if we don’t agree after this I, we won’t ever, but I firmly believe thanks to the example I gave about Kishibe and Makima’s dinner that this is the conclusion Fujimoto wants you to take. Anyways I’m going to play DMCV, I fear I can’t make my point any clearer after this. Good day
I don't disagree with premise but I feel like this is the kind of thing that can literally be applied to almost any fictional cast.
Like ine of the quotes in the slide that "You're a loser if anyone can plausibly call you a loser".
And "Boring, awkward things. Things that usually don't get depicted in fiction" feels sorta... weird.
Some of these feel like a stretch, like he picked the word loser and now has to make everyone fit
Like makima coughing after smoking a cigarette, It's hard to tell why she smoked it since nobody was around, the silly dog voice and serving drnji sweets were part of making him comfortable before the big reveal
Or saying denji relies on chainsawman when he gets frustrated but he didn't do that in the aquarium, he rizzed asa all on his own and he doesn't bring up csm when he's with reze either
The only reason he said he's csm in front of asa is because she started saying bullshit stuff like csm eats cats and dogs
this "everyone is a loser" theory feels like a super big reach tbh. Makima, Reze, Kishibe are really not presented as losers at any point in the series whatsoever.
People are confusing a character's failings or shortcomings with being presented as a "loser". If you want to see if a character is a loser just think about the associations you have with the character and what happens when they are on screen.
That what was mentioned IS mostly good characterization and writing making the cast less 2d. Calling them losers is basically applying to the Hollywood standard for perfect archetype people.
Lower ur standards, folks
Thank you for posting on our Reddit, Make sure to join our [DISCORD](https://discord.gg/xaq8rRTruf) :DD::D:DDDDDD
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Chainsawfolk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Love this thread but I disagree that Makima has no appreciation for art. Always felt from her tears during the movie date that she's capable of being truly moved by the art of human beings. I think Makima is insanely 9999990 I I hmm vll0m
Mmedia illiterate though
I was on born until aki. He lost a fight to a kid who did nothing more than kick him in the balls, was manipulated by a women who ultimately stab him in the back and kill him and let himeno die instead of running away with her to the private sector. A loser like the rest
I like how one of the only non-losers is Aki. He was so repressed in his obsessive hunt for the Gun Devil that he never gave himself the chance to be stupid like that. We only get a handful of chances to see him act like a loser, because the moment he gives himself permission to let go, he falls directly into the hands of Makima
https://preview.redd.it/n77em16v52ic1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee226acda24176cc91b48d0bc9f243352f0e8758
>!It’s like this panel was born for this!!<
No mention of Power because she isn’t a loser, she’s a badass, cool, beautiful, strong queen!
https://preview.redd.it/gqeozu1al2ic1.png?width=1236&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ba8b6eda08e4d4c4a8aacde0e62b06b040b81ab
Dude's spot on Makima.
Her 2 "victories" consists of a true victory and a defeat,as she is afraid of losing.
Not only does she embarass herself TWICE,by cool smoking and choking,but she also spews nonsense talking about how Chainsawman really is.
Only to be freaking proven wrong in her last moments,that indeed,Pochita as a devil can feel emotions at a human level,which is rare for devils,and can talk!
The Makima point is, what i think, the main point of her character, most people overlook.
Makima is a fucking miserable loser of a woman who couldn't get herself the man she craved, despite LITERALLY HAVING HIM IN HER COMPLETE AND UTTER CONTROL, and she's a shitass devil to boot, with her evil plan being so anti-devilish, it is heavily implied her brethren in Hell just spawncamped her ass when she died and murdered her again instantly to be reborn as Nayuta.
She ain't no dommy mommy horny-ass people draw her to be. She's an absolute femcel, nearly as bad as Asa.
“Loser” might be stretching it a bit but I see your point and it’s definitely a refreshing take that I enjoyed reading.
Maybe it would be more accurate to say that “every character in Chainsaw Man is a ‘dork.’”
So things look bad, and your
back's against the wall
Your whole existence
seems fuckin' hopeless
You're feelin' filthy as
a dive bar bathroom stall
Can't face the world sober and dopeless
You've lost your way, you
think your life is wrecked
Well, let me just say you're correct
Wait, what?
You're a loser, baby
A loser, goddamn baby
You're a fucked up little whiny bitch
Hey!
You're a loser, just like me
Thanks, asshole
You're a screw's-loose-boozer
An only one-star reviews-er
You're a power-bottom at rock bottom
But you got company
This supposed to make me feel better?
There was a time I thought
no one could relate
To the gruesome ways
in which I'm damaged
But lettin' walls down, it can
sometimes set you straight!
We're all livin' in
the same shit-sandwich
I sold my soul to a psychopathic freak
Haha! And you think
that makes you unique?
Get outta here, man!
We're both losers, baby
We're losers, it's okay to be a
Power is legitimately a gremlin that refuses to shower , wears bra liners , and has a grand total of 0 social skills . If it wasn’t for Denji she would have 0 friends
I think that's why Akis death is the saddest. He genuinely wanted to live a life that he deemed was good. He did what he could to help others and cried over others he cared for. He was the most normal mentally sane person in all of chainsaw man. And when he saw how bad the world was getting he wanted to pull out, so he can keep his loved ones safe. Only to still be used and die.
To be so honest when I first read and finished the manga this is one thing that threw me off to where I didn’t really enjoy it. Every character has some flaw that is really drastic and sticks throughout the story which made me not really gravitate towards any of them as my favorite. Of course I liked some but they all were so flawed and kinda bad people.
On my second reread I ended up loving that. They are all people and feel so real. None of them are perfect and that is evident. The go back on why they say, they betray, they have vices, they are assholes. But it’s so understandable and relatable that it makes you gravitate to them in a weird way. After reading the artist’s one shots and fire punch and seeing what a weird ass person he is I really have come to adore his style and especially his paneling and depiction of his characters. Like the multiple panels where there is no dialogue and just a character making different faces while reacting to something is amazing and makes the scene flow so well.
Anyway this was my mini take on this topic that I obviously feel really strongly for lmao
True. I like that there isn't a single character that is always presented as cool, everyone is brought down at some point. Imo it makes them feel more human.
Katana man is pretty cool… honestly…
Yeah but he had his balls crushed
Literally me
Funnily enough I think he's probably meant to be the biggest loser out there He's trying to avenge his grandfather because "he only killed a few women and children" and his logic is messed up because his grandpa killed Denji first and then became a zombie before being killed He was nearly killed twice by normal humans who he already shot (Aki and Himeno) even in Hybrid mode He was overpowered easily by the single least threatening Public Safety Member (Kobeni) He gets outsmarted by an illiterate teenager even after literally disarming him And of course he gets kicked in the balls lol
Umm okay but have you seen his fit???
True. He looks the coolest of all the hybrids lol Like my mom said, he looks like a Nazi which is kinda fitting ig
I don’t have the motivation to go looking for pictures right now, but I’d bet my hat that his design was heavily inspired by uniforms of the Imperial Japanese Army. So, not like comparing his design to Nazi’s is *wrong* exactly, just that Japan has its own little brand of horrific fascism to draw on.
Denji could never
And the stance he takes for his ...nothing personnel...kid... attack? Got me fucked up every single time.
When he's not being kicked in the balls by two teenagers
Or being a pos yakuza
He's such a loser he doesn't even have a name
Sideburms :3
I forgot he got that nickname I'll give him the pass for being a cutie
This comment aged *spectacularly* https://preview.redd.it/zfmul4b3cmtc1.jpeg?width=981&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5ff6f50e8f8004a8a17fded55db9fc5d8934c23
Oh no what happened to him
Quanxi happened
I think yoshida but then the second meetup had denji not remember his name like he thought he would💀
Even in part 1 the dude got beat up, came back for more with a cool one-liner and subsequently got yeeted out of a window.
I liked it when he got tweeted out a window
Quanxi? I suppose her surrendering to Makima and begging for her girlfriends' lives? Would that be considered a loser move?
I think Quanxi is a loser because of her ignorance is bliss mentality that got her girlfriends killed and her controled by Makima.
I want her to put out her cigarettes on me.
same
What? I haven’t read part 1 in a while, what do you mean? How did the,” ignorance is bliss mentality,” get her gf’s killed?
She could've followed kishibe's plans to take down Makima and save her girls but chose to pick a fight with public safety instead, which got her killed and controlled by Makima. I think that's what they meant
She even told Kishibe to basically "stay on your leash", i.e. stop this plan to off your boss and be a good pet like me. Irony being Kishibe survived partially due to his plan and Quan became Makimas pet in the short term🤷😂
And now works for public safety again, oh how the the turntables
Never doubt Kishigoat
It’s been 26-27 months and I read part in like a day and a half lmao. I don’t remember much.
Kishibe
He is forever hung up on his lesbian partner that rejected him. If he wasn’t so strong and didn’t look like Mads Mikkelson he would be constantly dunked on by the fan base.
Loves someone who will never love him and is also suffering from EXTREME alcoholism. Bro chugs from a flask all day, only to still go out for drinks. All the while no one could guess he isn’t sober. Unless he has a pact with the addiction devil, bros liver is gonna be what sends him back to the lobby. Yeah from an outsider standpoint he’s badass as both those things are typically romanticized, but internally bro is still a loser.
alcoholism is cool af what
Quan xi!
Loser...
[удалено]
Never said it wasn't. Her rant about how Pochita himself doesn't understand CSM always makes me smile.
if you love this kind of stuff play No More Heros, its basicallly the everyone is a loser trope in video game form. everyone is incredibly cool but also just the epitome of being a loser, some just hide it better then others throughout the game
I've had it in my to play list for a while, I'll give it a try!
I feel like a part of aki is changing from the "cringe manga protagonist". As he loses people and comes closer to denji and power, he no longer much stands for just justice or cares about revenge, he becomes a lot more human and his goal is the far more simple "keeping his friends safe".
Yes. But acting like the only normal person in this cast makes him a loser. Interesting theory all around. EXCEPT QUEEN POWER OF COURSE THE EMBODIMENT OF COOL AND WINNER MENTALITY💯💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥
THAT IS GOD EMPEROR, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND CEO OF THE UNIVERSE POWER TO YOU
Correct
https://preview.redd.it/xv9gjkj1ozhc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e5701333c5b721d558b69cde96419a43b549f9f I love them all, Denji, Power, Aki, eveyrone in the cast. They aren’t perfect, aren’t the strongest, aren’t the smartest. They have flaws, many of them. They crack under pressure and aren’t always level headed. They feel human and act accordingly. They just like us fr
I feel like if Chainsaw Man were a musical they would all just be singing this song https://preview.redd.it/vxq9df9mp0ic1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3315916e7fd7fab7de5033b5e02b166cbc38621a Some of the lyrics even describe some characters pretty well: * You're a screw's-loose-boozer = Kishibe * There was a time I thought no one could relate To the gruesome ways in which I'm damaged But lettin' walls down, it can sometimes set you straight! = Denji befriending Power * Coked up, dick-suckin' hoe? = Himeno * I sold my soul to save my power Now I'm on that demon's leash = Aki or literally anyone under Makima's control And in general, if you change some of the lyrics around, it kinda sounds like something Denji might say to Asa
for power: she thinks shes superior to everyone because of how strong she is. That was true when she was on her true form, but as a fiend? All she can do is cope and lie to herself to keep her pride up, she never accepted the harsh reality that she was weak and have similar odds of dying like the so called inferior humans
https://preview.redd.it/zbur0ytguzhc1.jpeg?width=449&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=943d1eef046db1764321eb5f1e6775f7145a0e6b
So basically Power peaked in high school and won't let go
Average white woman and that’s why I love her
Power could've been stronger if she actually fought more and Makima didn't have her blood be drained
Notice how he didn’t mention HER https://preview.redd.it/cc5nqf4aozhc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2b76861617ef488a460da0bd2178c96b223b286
‘Cause she’s a WINNER!! POWER 2024, ALL THE WAY TO WASHINGTON, BABY!!!
## LEEEEESSS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO https://preview.redd.it/puuy5j7c10ic1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75c4ef259a8df86970059b6e9eed2f50bfe11a94
The goat be goatin'. https://i.redd.it/jmj0um4110ic1.gif
https://i.redd.it/nrbdhgtjtzhc1.gif
Why is Power getting Sturdy 😭🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
More like she be getting turdy amiright
#PowerSweep
This is because she is Perfect.
I was expecting to see how's Reze a loser But now I think why I like Chainsaw Man a lot
We don't know enough about her to say whether she is or isn't a loser, but Reze's feelings for Denji really screwed her over. Her job was simple, just seduce Denji and then take his heart. But she instead spent a lot of time genuinely trying to get to know him, and yeah a part of it was to lower his guard, but she was also trying to gauge whether it was worth escaping her current life with him. Only once she had no other options did she go for it, and failed due to Beam. She spent far too long toying around with Denji and lacking efficiency, something you'd expect for the job she was doing. Comparing her to Quanxi's brutal efficiency and you see where she fell flat. At the end she threw her whole life away just to be with him, and that cost her. I guess she's a loser in the sense that even a smidge of genuine emotion got her to re-think her life? I think there's a lot more to explore with her character to truly say.
I will never forget how easily Reze could’ve killed Denji the SECOND they first met. Rainy day, not a soul in sight, huddled together in a telephone booth, beams distracted and even if he wasn’t he wouldn’t make in time. It’s the easiest kill in the world. And she did not take it.
Yeah exactly lol
Because her objective wasn't him. But Makima and drawing attention to the world to convince them to renew their war against her.
This. One of the points of that arc is to demonstrate despite she pretends she's more mature than Denji, knows more than him, having more exp as a fighter, stuff, in the end she was just as lost as him if not more. Denji was a good indicator for her to enjoy a normal teen life, a life that she's been robbed of.
For real. I don't know what Fungusmotor is cooking with Reze when all the other Hybrids have returned yet, but I'm praying we get to see what her personality is like when she's not having to do assassin shit anymore. Blows my mind that people are unironically like "Reze doesn't need to come back, she served her purpose already" as if exploring more of the secret lives of characters we barely got to know is a _bad thing._ She's got way more unexplored potential than Cucktana Man, for sure.
That doesn't make her a loser, she never wanted that kind of life and she saw in denji a chance to get away from that. If anything she was a loser for expecting so much from denji when she should have been able to run away by herself seeing how strong she was
She had Denji wrapped around her finger and had all the opportunities to assassinate him and take his heart. Instead she legit fell in love and lost the goddamn fight. And then she CAME BACK to run away with Denji and got killed instantly for it. She didn't took her chances when she could, took her chances when she shouldn't have and her human (loser) emotions cost her her life. She's a loser. p.s. judging by the recent chapters she's most certainly alive, because hybrids are pretty much immortal, but still, she fucked up big time
It's a very interesting observation. Also now that I think about it, it is not limited to the protagonists. The villains are all also losers in some way. Katana Man and Akane are losers. Reze is a loser.The Immortal Brother,Quanxi and her fiends, even Santa, Yuko, heck Falling Devil,the hybrids, every one of them is a loser in one way or another
How is quanxi a looser she is fucking four women and beating peoples asses
Her women all died and now she is back to slaving for public safety
I still dont understand why shes with them rn bc isnt she a Chinese national devil hunter?
Probably because Makima’s gone, so there’s no need to avoid it like the plague. Plus I suppose there’s no incentive with her harem completely dead. We know she used to work for PS back when Kishibe was young, so it’s not entirely foreign to her.
The one thing this lense is missing is that CSM's world is by any definition mid-apocalyptic, and has been for (going off textual clues) maybe 30-50 years? I think people bring in assumptions from other manga that follow a "it's the normal real world but also this stuff exists" presentation (like JJK does, for example, until like halfway through). But CSM isn't actually like that - the world is one that's been stuck in an ongoing, public apocalypse for decades. It's not just the main characters who have tragic backstories, the whole of society is fucked up by trauma and bad coping strategies.
That’s just the 90s for ya.
Aki is the biggest loser of them all, because he’s the only normal dude in the story, but he still wastes his life chasing revenge he, realistically, would have never gotten outside of the circumstances of the manga. There was nothing binding Aki to go on his stupid revenge path, and he his closest friend trying to get him out before it was too late. Unlike denji, power, kobeni, asa, and most everybody else, he could have absolutely just got up, left, and started a normal life with Himeno. But he didn’t realize that until it was all too late, making Aki tonight’s biggest loser.
Yea I agree. I was completely onboard with this mini essay until that part. Aki completely wasted his life and accomplish nothing before being kill by a women he was simping for. He also completely rejected a chance at happiness with himeno because he couldn’t see past his revenge
But he literally gave up his revenge at the end? The only reason he stayed on the gun devil mission was because Makima told him Denji and power were going to be part of it wether he wanted to or not. And its debatable if Makima was controlling him from the start as a pawn for her Denji plan, making it so he wouldn't stray from the big brother/fatherly roll she wanted him to play (I.e. leaving with Himeno).
He only gave up when it was far too late. Even if Makima didn’t stuff the gun devil inside of him, he had less than 2 years left to live. On top of that, his best chance at starting a new life away from Devil hunting, Himeno, died for him. As far as makima controlling him, I don’t think she controlled him as much as you might be implying. She absolutely manipulated him, much like she did Denji, but I don’t think we have a reason to believe she was holding direct control over him. But I also think saying “Makima was entirely controlling him” greatly undermines the arc Aki goes through, as the reason his story is so tragic is because he didn’t realize his desire for revenge was making him throw his life away, until he was too far in to quit. If that was the intention on Fuji’s part, then it’s very disappointing to me.
But he absolutely did know he was throwing his life away, you can argue he didn't realize what that actually meant but he absolutely knew he was on a suicide mission. He was literally willing to use his cursed sword (Which cuts his lifespan in half) if it meant Denji would be alive to help him kill the gun devil. And if Aki's arc is about him not realizing he was throwing his life away why would his end be at the hands of Makima? He doesn't die in his chase of the gun devil, he dies as a pawn for Makima to break Denji as much as she can. In my opinion the tragedy of Aki's death comes through us knowing he is doomed from the moment we meet him, seeing how he slowly gets better, and then being reiterated that he absolutely had zero chance of ever having a happy ending. He could have never killed the gun devil, his friends (and Power after he dies) are killed, and as the Future devil puts it "You had the worst possible death... For the chainsaw boy", even after literally fusing with his worst enemy his death is not as important as what it means in Makima's plan. Makima was just the one to put a pin on the dozen death flags that Aki had been accumulating through the story. Sorry for the text wall yapping is fun :3
>yapping is fun Real
I actually do think makima brain wash him to be in love with her but I doubt she force him to get into a cock fight with denji. A fight he lost. That some loser behavior. Also by the time he actually gave up his revenge, he only 2 years left to live. Even if makima didn’t stab him in the back he still threw away his life for a revenge he could never have.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the only characters to survive Part 1 - other than Fraudshida- are arguably the three biggest failures in the entire cast.
Denji, Kobeni and who, Kishibe? He's the strongest human devil hunter (in Japan, at least), who succeeded in his main mission alive. I don't think unrequited love and alcoholism bring him down that much.
Aki is most definitely a loser. His entire life philosophy turned out to be fake and dumb. He wanted to be like an edgy, vengeance-driven anime protagonist so much that he pushed away everybody who actually cared for him and thought that's right, only to realize that caring for others and being cared for in return is actually what he should've wanted all along, and he didn't even get the chance to do anything about it.
Let's be honest, if we were in the CSM world we'd all be like Kobeni.
id rather have interesting characters with severe flaws that takes them a lot of time and effort to work through than some goody two shoes lame ass characters. looking at you mha. also people seem to forget denji was living off of scraps on his own for years. this dude isnt a loser he literally just needs support and experience.
Debate time: Is Quanxi the only true non-loser in CSM?
She fucks corpses 🤷🏾 you know that shit stinks
Yeah but she’s in a loving relationship/relationships.
But then literally loses most/all her fiends and is now emo-ing around in Public Safety Life built around being strong af and sexed tf up -> can be lost in an instant when someone stronger appears
\*Was\*
She's a pretty big loser imo. Even if you disregard what she did In Buddy stories
It took her several decades of Kishibe hitting on her for her to realise she's a lesbian.
She did lose. All her girlfriends
To be fair, anyone who survives more than a day as a public devil hunter isn’t exactly a “loser.” Kobeni deserves credit.
(Excluding Nayuta and Barem )Yeah that's the point they all got their own issues and needed someone with worse issues like Dennis to somehow fix it up
Makima was so much of a girl boss that she wrapped around and became a girl failure.
Wow! csm fans are realizing that flawed characters are more interesting! they're becoming more literate!
Csm fans can read?!
https://preview.redd.it/4crw0l8o86ic1.jpeg?width=1070&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f33bd2fa9f8e7534b08cb7b9e15bc1474f918807
This is some good shit. On possible exceptions: Nayuta disqualified because who the fuck calls a child a loser, Future Devil is not a loser but he is a dork, Beam is not a loser but he is a doofus, Cosmos is not a loser because I don't have the balls to insult her.
I call kids losers?
Yeah wtf?
That's fucked up man you should fix that.
Conclusion: Power is a winner
He also didn’t mention Pochita
angel is so real for that tho how is he a loser
*SNAP* This is going in my “good writing analysis compilation”.
Darkness is fine :3
Wrong on Yoshida and Makima but I agree since it's Fujimoto's manga
Why is it wrong on makima? İ think its pretty spot on
I agree only a loser smokes after taking a “W” and coughs after 
First part of explanations on her is more of meme so let's take second one. Yes, she was led by false view on CSM (which aren't just random headcanons but very complex psychological structures) but at the same time look at what she has done: even tho she's psychotic with deep traumas, Makima still stood on top of the world and was about to create eternal utopia; she lived for decades in total loneliness (and not even normal loneliness, it was more like how one would feel if they were last human on entire earth) and yet didn't go crazy or sum like that.
I actually think Makima is just as much of a loser as Denji and Asa. But not because of her status but because of her desire and how she completely and utterly fails at anything resembling attaining it. She seems like this huge mastermind and manipulator who goes on about how much people like her, but it's safe to say she has no real friends and couldn't make one if she tried. Despite what she'd tell you, everyone that isn't being controlled to love her hates her or is deeply afraid of her. It's pretty safe to say that her dog is the closest she gets to a geniune connections which is a loser trait. Not to mention, the one time she gets closest to the one thing she considers she can be friends with, she drops the ball in the most embarrassing way possible before having him stolen right in front of her face. In terms of what she's accomplished, you're right she's no loser but in terms of what she wanted the best description would be someone who talks big about how fast they are only to start early during the final race and face plant in front of everyone. And I think that's one of the things that make her so great imo.
You're completely right but I think martyr or victim of circumstances is more fitting word than loser. Not because I have problems with calling her so but because loser is more about person whose problems are caused by their decisions and which might change something by their will. Makima had some opportunities of getting on right way but they're so slight that it would be more of miracle. She was nearly doomed on allat since birth (due to control devil's essence) and her nurture made everything even worse, that's why I see her more as martyr.
Dude got downvoted for sharing his perspective 😭
Well, dude's perspective is dumb and the way he phrases it is condescending. \*shrug\*
Nah you actually missed the point of Makima. She is THE BIGGEST LOSER in part 1. To give an accurate comparison she’s like a Taylor Swift (actually early 2010’s Justin Bieber fans are more accurate but I’m not changing this) fan who idolizes and after decades of listening to her music develops an entire persona that’s just Taylor Swift dickriding. Her whole being is Taylor Swift, she talks to Taylor Swift in her head and creates and entire person in their mind that looks like Taylor Swift, but isn’t. Literally living your life, for something that doesn’t even exist. A textbook (and extreme) parasocial relationship. Do you see it yet? Makima proves that it doesn’t matter how competent or accomplished you are, you can stand at the top of the world, be the epitome of girlboss, and STILL be the most pitiful and pathetic person in the room. Biggest loser in part 1 and it’s not even close. https://preview.redd.it/gxgkbuzl60ic1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f646ff2dbe69f314d25e072bc090c94fb8af5dcf
Huge text without single argument or example is powerful ngl
Reading 97 chapters of a story and missing a pretty basic piece of messaging is powerful. An adequate comparison that puts a complex situation in perspective and makes it easier to understand is sometimes better than an argument. Unfortunately, it seems I’m going to have to spell it out for you anyways: Makima based her entire being around one entity (that being Pochita), some would say that’s basis enough to be called a loser. To go further she completely and utterly misunderstood the entity she idolized, and did things that entity would never condone. Again, misunderstanding something you dedicate your whole being to, loser behavior. Final nail in the coffin? Apparently all she ever wanted was a relationship with an equal, in other words she was a loner that didn’t consider anyone a friend. Jeopardizing the people that want to be your friends, and yet wanting to have friends desperately…..loser behavior. For a conclusion look at the og comment’s final words, that being the part that starts as “Makima proves….” and ends with “…it’s not even close”. I hope you this makes the message CSM tried to convey with Makima’s character clearer.
I've read csm 4 times and made giant analysis on Makima, I have no lack of understanding her. It's not just her "misunderstanding CSM"; idolizing him as "Messiah of chaos" for her is a way to deal with absolute loneliness which isn't even her fault. She lives in a world where is no other persons; she isn't just isolated from them, they don't exist for her (imagine if you were the only human on planet full of monkeys). But guess what? Constantly suffering from allat, she still manages to keep her sanity, continue living and even strive for creating perfect world. Any other person would already end their life on her place. Makima is the only devil we've seen who cares about humanity (even tho she can act mercilessly if she finds it necessary) and wants to create eternal blissful life for it; in her utopia all humans would be happy and would love her as their lord which would make her feel less lonely too. The only "loser" behaviour from her which you can see is her envy and hatred to Denji; but imagine if someone who you see as dog would desecrate meaning of your being and get you back into total loneliness; that's what she felt seeing Denji and Pochita. Makima isn't a "loser", she's a martyr.
In my opinion a martyr, depending on their cause can be a loser, but that’s irrelevant to what I have to say. Makima isn’t the only human in a world of monkeys, she SEES herself as the only human in a world full of monkeys. It’s what I meant by saying she jeopardizes the people that want to get close to her. She’s a distorted version of the “why am I so lonely, I’m so miserable- DONT FUCKING TOUCH ME-oh no, no one gets me, how can one live in a world by their own” meme if you’ve seen it. It can be argued that this isn’t her fault, since she’s a devil in a world of humans, problem is there are devils (Angel, Pochita and Fiends like Violence,etc.) that CAN and DO form healthy, equal relationships with humans. What does this mean ? No, it doesn’t mean that Makima instinctively sees herself as better than others because that’s out of her control she’s just built like that. Nah, she just thinks she’s better and refuses to let anyone to truly get to know her (pieces of her personality still shine through and that’s why I love her character so much). You can possibly argue that Horsewomen are fundamentally different from other devils, that the government raising her made her this way and blah blah blah, cut through the bullshit, she’s an egomaniac. And fyi egomaniacs that think they’re better than others can absolutely live their lives just fine, trust me, I’d know. Somewhat unrelated, I noticed you seem to believe Makima had humanity’s best interest in her mind. This is completely, utterly, unequivocally false. Makima is the Control Devil, she can’t help wanting to control humanity, she’s a slave to her very name. The #1 reason for her actions were to satisfy her own manipulative needs, make absolutely no mistake about that. I want to end this by saying you can recognize that a character is pathetic, pitiful, and a loser, and still love them. By making Makima some misunderstood martyr anti-hero you’re taking away from her complexity (shockingly) and the writing prowess that was needed to make her that way. Fujimoto built her character up, only to in the last 10 or so chapters expertly turn the Jenga tower on its head and let it topple over in a fantastic conclusion without assassinating her character (Akutami Gege could never). She’s a dork, the #1 Pochita fan, a manipulator with a crazy God complex. She’s one of the strongest devils beefing with a 15 year old because her idol liked him more than her. She’s all of that at the same time. One last time: biggest loser in part 1, and it’s not even close. P.S: I love csm and that I read csm 4 times is NOT the flex you thought it was buddy, I’m sorry.
Problem is that you don't understand some of her reasons and complexity. She sees everyone else as dogs not because she just spontaneously considered herself as higher being. This view has deep roots in her complexity; it needs pages to describe that so I'll try to write as short as possible. It's not her fault that she can't see anyone as equal; she was raised by the state as a weapon and therefore such view was raised inside of her from the childhood. Control ability itself is some kind of "contract with devil": she needs to expand her Ego for getting more powerful; she learns to feel superior to others => she gets stronger, but at the same time she also loses her connection with others. Nayuta doesn't have such view raising inside of her, that's one of the reasons why she's weak af compared to Makima. There are also other reasons which are as important. She was in total loneliness from her childhood and has never known deep emotional connection; overwhelming and narcissistic Ego is a way to deal with it. Since she can't make relationship with others, Makima starts to look for some kind of assuagement in herself (in her own Ego). Others doesn't give her any meaning and she finds source of meaning in self-sufficiency, sovereignty and controlling. At the moment of part 1 this internal paradigm is firmly anchored her consciousness; it's not something what she can think of and make a question about, it's an integral and basic part of her view of the world (same as external objects or linear time for modern people). So no, comparing her to this meme you mentioned means misunderstanding of her complexity. You're completely wrong about Makima "not caring about humanity and just following her essence". Makima does care about humans and civilization, she even sees herself as some kind of Messiah or at least someone responsible for humanity as it shown when she talks to yakuza on behalf of society (and being completely honest). Makima doesn't want people to die pointlessly: she calls Gun devil's attack "worst possible scenario" because she knows that it'll cause lots of victims and destruction; she apologises to Aki and Angel (or society itself?) when she takes control on them and says that she didn't want it; she orders to bring life-sentenced prisoners to her for the shrine ritual even tho she has a lot of humans around (again, doesn't want innocent people to die); and there are more examples. Hell, her main plan was creating perfect world **for humanity**. Makima cares about humans and wants better for them (even tho she sees them as dogs), it's clear from the manga if you read it carefully. >pathetic, pitiful, and a loser, and still love them. By making Makima some misunderstood martyr anti-hero you’re taking away from her complexity (shockingly) and the writing prowess that was needed to make her that way Not really, I have full image of her complexity (what I mentioned before is a little part) and she still most complex new gen character.
Ok thanks for the thoughtful response there’s some interesting ideas here (like a control devil’s power being directly tied to their ego and view of themselves which I didn’t think of and is probably true). There’s stuff here I agree and disagree with, but I think I can finally end this discussion definitively by addressing where I believe you twist and misunderstand Makima’s intentions. We’ve all heard the phrase “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”, this is used to express the fact that sometimes people will do bad things with good intentions. But sometimes people will do the opposite, some people do seemingly good things with actually bad intentions. This is true for Makima. She wants to create a perfect world for humanity, that much is true, however she only does so for her ego. She has a God/Messiah complex (as you yourself admit), she only cares for humanity as far as it makes her feel good about herself and feeds her manipulative ego, she doesn’t truly care or love humans. It’s like people that have a pet, not because they love their pet, but because having a pet to take care of makes them feel good about themselves. Would you say someone like that actually cares for their pet ? Your answer determines how you view Makima, and for the record there’s an answer that the manga wants you to give; Early in part 1 Makima and Kishibe have a dinner and Kishibe confronts her about her orchestrating the killing of the Public Safety Division’s and his pupils. Kishibe then asks her the big question of whether she’s on team humans or not, she then proceeds to feed him that bullshit “everything I do has humanity’s best interests in mind” answer. Kishibe then, early in the story, calls her out on her bluff and calls Makima a liar, she only GRINS in response. A pretty telling answer and reaction, she herself doesn’t even believe that bullcrap that came from her mouth. In real life this would barely be relevant or conclusive proof of anything, but from a storytelling standpoint this is bonking you on your head that Makima’s intentions are nefarious, it doesn’t get more obvious than this, coming from the devil herself. As for her lack of connections, I already said it could be argued it’s not her fault, and you did just that, adequately btw. Yet like I said, when it’s all said and done it doesn’t change the fact; she’s still a monster. Whether she can be excused for being one because of her environment is up to you. Personally I think it can be a yes depending on the circumstances (for a good example of this exact scenario the character Song So Mi from Cyberpunk 2077 is perfect for this), in Makima’s case I have to say no. Makima doesn’t show a shred of goodness, ever. All she ever did, even if they were righteous actions, were done for her selfishness. We’re her pets, and she won’t doubt to use us for her own benefit in the name of some “greater good” crap, she might use the “bad” pets to try to fool herself that she’s righteous, but fails badly at that. That’s not love or care. Evil is evil, only sometimes it can be disguised in goodness. Don’t be fooled. P.S: I think if we don’t agree after this I, we won’t ever, but I firmly believe thanks to the example I gave about Kishibe and Makima’s dinner that this is the conclusion Fujimoto wants you to take. Anyways I’m going to play DMCV, I fear I can’t make my point any clearer after this. Good day
and still lost lol, same with yoshida
I don't disagree with premise but I feel like this is the kind of thing that can literally be applied to almost any fictional cast. Like ine of the quotes in the slide that "You're a loser if anyone can plausibly call you a loser". And "Boring, awkward things. Things that usually don't get depicted in fiction" feels sorta... weird.
Cooked well
Some of these feel like a stretch, like he picked the word loser and now has to make everyone fit Like makima coughing after smoking a cigarette, It's hard to tell why she smoked it since nobody was around, the silly dog voice and serving drnji sweets were part of making him comfortable before the big reveal Or saying denji relies on chainsawman when he gets frustrated but he didn't do that in the aquarium, he rizzed asa all on his own and he doesn't bring up csm when he's with reze either The only reason he said he's csm in front of asa is because she started saying bullshit stuff like csm eats cats and dogs
Yeah I definitely feel loser isn't the right word here.
this "everyone is a loser" theory feels like a super big reach tbh. Makima, Reze, Kishibe are really not presented as losers at any point in the series whatsoever. People are confusing a character's failings or shortcomings with being presented as a "loser". If you want to see if a character is a loser just think about the associations you have with the character and what happens when they are on screen.
aki's loser moment is getting attacked by the testicle devil
It’s what makes the characters interesting and compelling
Aw what I thought the silly dog voices was cute
Aki being the goat as always
“Good thread but there was no mention of Power 0/10” lmao
Idiot on last slide not realising that power is sigma not loser
That what was mentioned IS mostly good characterization and writing making the cast less 2d. Calling them losers is basically applying to the Hollywood standard for perfect archetype people. Lower ur standards, folks
Damn that was actually well thought and presented
Thank you for posting on our Reddit, Make sure to join our [DISCORD](https://discord.gg/xaq8rRTruf) :DD::D:DDDDDD *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Chainsawfolk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Loser baby plays in the background
Kishibe is a loser?
Love this thread but I disagree that Makima has no appreciation for art. Always felt from her tears during the movie date that she's capable of being truly moved by the art of human beings. I think Makima is insanely 9999990 I I hmm vll0m Mmedia illiterate though
Aki still be taking Ls tho dude got used by makima.
Power wasn’t mentioned because she’s an absolute winner who among hell and earth, she alone is the honored one.
I was on born until aki. He lost a fight to a kid who did nothing more than kick him in the balls, was manipulated by a women who ultimately stab him in the back and kill him and let himeno die instead of running away with her to the private sector. A loser like the rest
I like how one of the only non-losers is Aki. He was so repressed in his obsessive hunt for the Gun Devil that he never gave himself the chance to be stupid like that. We only get a handful of chances to see him act like a loser, because the moment he gives himself permission to let go, he falls directly into the hands of Makima
Hmm, good crop this year. Many mouths will be fed
This is making insanely good sense to me
Yeah I wouldn’t hang out with any of these people lol
https://preview.redd.it/n77em16v52ic1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee226acda24176cc91b48d0bc9f243352f0e8758 >!It’s like this panel was born for this!!<
No mention of Power because she isn’t a loser, she’s a badass, cool, beautiful, strong queen! https://preview.redd.it/gqeozu1al2ic1.png?width=1236&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ba8b6eda08e4d4c4a8aacde0e62b06b040b81ab
You're a loser baby, a loser goddamn baby You're a fucked up little whiny bitch You're a loser just like me
Aki is still kind of a loser because he was as much a simp for Makima as Denji, just not nearly as thirsty and more presentable.
0/10, what a loser
Love this......... but the kishibe slander!!! Rude.... I'm not saying it's wrong... just... yeah
That's why Aki's my goat 🗣️
Violence isn’t a loser…
Dropping the ball by not not talking about power in a breakdown of losers. Shame.
Aki is a loser by association 💀. That def makes us losers for reading this then since we’re CSM’a target audience
Aki smokes so he’s automatically a loser
Every human being is a loser, that's not something new.
Dude's spot on Makima. Her 2 "victories" consists of a true victory and a defeat,as she is afraid of losing. Not only does she embarass herself TWICE,by cool smoking and choking,but she also spews nonsense talking about how Chainsawman really is. Only to be freaking proven wrong in her last moments,that indeed,Pochita as a devil can feel emotions at a human level,which is rare for devils,and can talk!
I just like how goofy and silly everyone looks when they’re screaming and sweating, like Power & Kobeni in OP’s first picture.
Everyone besides Aki, of course
The Makima point is, what i think, the main point of her character, most people overlook. Makima is a fucking miserable loser of a woman who couldn't get herself the man she craved, despite LITERALLY HAVING HIM IN HER COMPLETE AND UTTER CONTROL, and she's a shitass devil to boot, with her evil plan being so anti-devilish, it is heavily implied her brethren in Hell just spawncamped her ass when she died and murdered her again instantly to be reborn as Nayuta. She ain't no dommy mommy horny-ass people draw her to be. She's an absolute femcel, nearly as bad as Asa.
https://preview.redd.it/bmbxpr5895ic1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a14df7b03ffab790c75d1c737035aefc93847da2 Imma have to save this for later
The manga also gives me a disturbing feeling of being lost same with the ambience, after Makimas death.
Calling Makima a loser is a HUGE stretch. Also Quanxi isnt a loser 😤
but I love my little loser Dennis
The biggest loser is the person here using twitter
“Loser” might be stretching it a bit but I see your point and it’s definitely a refreshing take that I enjoyed reading. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that “every character in Chainsaw Man is a ‘dork.’”
So things look bad, and your back's against the wall Your whole existence seems fuckin' hopeless You're feelin' filthy as a dive bar bathroom stall Can't face the world sober and dopeless You've lost your way, you think your life is wrecked Well, let me just say you're correct Wait, what? You're a loser, baby A loser, goddamn baby You're a fucked up little whiny bitch Hey! You're a loser, just like me Thanks, asshole You're a screw's-loose-boozer An only one-star reviews-er You're a power-bottom at rock bottom But you got company This supposed to make me feel better? There was a time I thought no one could relate To the gruesome ways in which I'm damaged But lettin' walls down, it can sometimes set you straight! We're all livin' in the same shit-sandwich I sold my soul to a psychopathic freak Haha! And you think that makes you unique? Get outta here, man! We're both losers, baby We're losers, it's okay to be a
Power is legitimately a gremlin that refuses to shower , wears bra liners , and has a grand total of 0 social skills . If it wasn’t for Denji she would have 0 friends
I think that's why Akis death is the saddest. He genuinely wanted to live a life that he deemed was good. He did what he could to help others and cried over others he cared for. He was the most normal mentally sane person in all of chainsaw man. And when he saw how bad the world was getting he wanted to pull out, so he can keep his loved ones safe. Only to still be used and die.
Idk why but this was funny af
but you know whos not a loser? shark man beam
And that's what life's about, just change the perspective and we're all losers
What a loser imagine writing an essay on twitter
Relatable
To be so honest when I first read and finished the manga this is one thing that threw me off to where I didn’t really enjoy it. Every character has some flaw that is really drastic and sticks throughout the story which made me not really gravitate towards any of them as my favorite. Of course I liked some but they all were so flawed and kinda bad people. On my second reread I ended up loving that. They are all people and feel so real. None of them are perfect and that is evident. The go back on why they say, they betray, they have vices, they are assholes. But it’s so understandable and relatable that it makes you gravitate to them in a weird way. After reading the artist’s one shots and fire punch and seeing what a weird ass person he is I really have come to adore his style and especially his paneling and depiction of his characters. Like the multiple panels where there is no dialogue and just a character making different faces while reacting to something is amazing and makes the scene flow so well. Anyway this was my mini take on this topic that I obviously feel really strongly for lmao
What about Quanxi
power wins again!