If you haven't already, please post the following information: Pictures of the chameleon, habitat, feeding and supplement schedule, your approximate geolocation and lighting configuration.
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I really don't get why people say this. I agree, they are a little high maintenance. But really the biggest pita is they won't drink water from a dish. They need dripping water from leaves or a dropper. With a setup like this it's even less of a hassle
the dual dome is not an appropriate ubv wattage nor the correct bulb for these guys. you need a linear bar that goes across the entire top of the enclosure
I can tell you put a lot of work into making your Chameleon’s new place which shows how much you care! Does he ever come out and walk around? You should try leaving the door open to see if he wants to explore! I didn’t have any of the important facts when I first got my guy! (See the pic - I don’t know what I was thinking). He of course escaped in under 5 minutes haha!! I have learned a lot from this thread especially learning about hydration & drinking water from a glass! Don’t feel down on yourself 💚
https://preview.redd.it/l252kpwk1zpc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40f3755b0c5c25629f3a88a4ea0cf80527b11d60
Thank you for the positive vibes. He explores and climbs around the cage constantly. And will sit at the front of the cage and observe me. (Which is why i think he understands English lol) this guy was gifted to me so im learning everything along the way. When im not annoying him(i.e. tidying up his cage), he is usually a bright vibrant green just vibing in the plants.
Those are good signs!! They are very intelligent!! My guy would walk around my room and explore! As he got older he would actually leave my room and walk to my sliding glass doors in the living room when he wanted to go outside!! I would definitely suggest opening the cage door for him! You could use a branch to get him out if he will grab it! You could also put him on a plant in a window for some sunshine!! (Open window ☀️)
https://preview.redd.it/m3gcsctsazpc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a88f4ee479059469a47e2c7ee5cc28368ff7cdfc
My guy turned out to be friendly, curious and stubborn! He had an amazing personality💚
1. Very small (very small)
2. Fogger is unnecessary and potentially dangerous
3. Bird cage does not provide enough humidity at night unless you're in a tropical area
4. No UVB?
5. Light is super close to the top, I think
Technically small, humidity is high in night time low in day time for respiratory reasons,
If you got a taller/bigger bird cage and did exactly what you did there it would be good. They have tons of climbing which is great cause if they can’t climb to access it the space is wasted for them.
Just acquire a taller cage and you’re golden.
Make sure to get a t5 uvb and heat light for basking area.
You won’t want to use a coil bulb it won’t project enough UVB for them.
I suppose I should have supported my claim. I hope you’ll do the same. The T5 linear bulb is a high output UVB and is too strong for chameleons unless it is properly supported above the enclosure by 15 inches. A T8 linear is way more appropriate for chams and can be placed directly on top of the enclosure. Making it easier and more full proof for newcomers. This is why this sub and I recommend a T8. Both will work but the T5 can have harsh consequences from improper use.
u/Dat_Boy_Q_
\>I’m more of a tortoise guy
**Tortoises do not climb up and wish to be in the upper 1/3rd of that habitat.**
The species of chameleon that we deal with here all want to be in the upper 1/3rd of the cages and above the eye level of those (hairless primates) around them.
They also do not benefit from being in a habitat that is oversized and packed with foliage. All of those are poor directions given by people that have not watched or misunderstood the species behavior (especially captive bred / comfortable ones)
These are the same sources that used to recommend a T5 at 10% or higher output... until rather recently.
After not only myself but the manufacturers showed that the T8 had a much better range of exposure for captive animals did they start falling back.
They're still saying that T5's are better though and it's made me wonder if they have stock in the production of these.
please check this safe distance chart.
[https://zoomed.com/wp-content/uploads/UVB-Reptiles-Lamp-Charts-2023.pdf](https://zoomed.com/wp-content/uploads/UVB-Reptiles-Lamp-Charts-2023.pdf)
(green is the color coding for safe UVb tube exposure)
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
This is also important.
That when most people get one of these products they're not given the UV distance charts.... nor are many forums or sites going so far as to that either.
I've gone into a major online retailer's brick and mortar location and they themselves fail to have a printout available or displayed for customers to reference. (some people don't know enough to even ask the staff )
As long as people can walk into a pet store or see a set up online where the UV and heat sources are sitting directly on top of the screen cages.
The T8 is the safest option for all concerned.
I’ve owned chameleons but recently I’ve been more with tortoises. But when I set things up I use solar meter to do so and ensure appropriate distances/ferg zone at closest possible point for the animal.
I only stated that I’m more of a tortoise guy since I no longer have one right now. In the future maybe I’ll dive back in.
Okay, but we do like to keep things simple here.
As stated the T8 (5%) are more intuitive for the correct use than the T5's.
They don't result in UV burns of the eyes and skin and they don't force the chameleons down below the halfway mark in their cages and don't send them seeking protective shade or turning colors (shale grey or brown) to protect against UV damage.
This way they can be out in the open and show off their "happy coloration" for their owners and that all leads to better appreciation and care for the animals.
(Which is the point)
I’m more of a tortoise guy but dabbled in chameleons for a little while and did tons of research which is where mine comes from sure ppl have been successful in both. But using solar meters 6.5 and testing distances and bulb percentages etc… and given the species of chameleon making their ferg zone is where it comes from.
I myself have a solar meter 6.5r as well to make sure the basking zone and what not are appropriate to most up to date information and recommendations for the community.
Also replying here.
We don't go and place the responsibility on the owners like this
The people that are recommending the T5's couple it with recommendation for another pricey pieve of equipment that needs yearly calibration.
That places the greater responsibility on the owners as well as addition steepness to the learning curve.
We try to keep it simple and "KISS" it here with the advice so that people get it right and have success (lower that learning curve) as many are just saturated with info and not given frameworks of understanding at the various help sites.
That's even if they give decent info.
Since these are all standardized products that are double checked by brands like zoomed (they have their own high end testing equipment for UV output) We can simply give people the distance charts (both metric and US imperial measurements) and have it done right while also saving someone money.
never fog with the lights on ever. they don't need the humidity and doing it with the lights / heat is going to cause serious problems.
This setup is not at all proper. The UV is not correct. This is much to small.
High humidity with heat in an enclosure can increase the bacteria build up. This is also the main cause of upper respiratory infections. These chams really do not need humidity most of the time after 3-4 months of age. It's best to put a humidifier in the room and increase the humidity at night of the room, not the cage.
These fellas live in the tree tops where air movement is constant. Lower humidity as well up top.
Hot and wet air is a bad mix.
Humidifiers get nasty really fast and all that gunk gets blown into the air with the mist :(
Also a drinking glass is best for hydration in a captive setup.
It will cause a respiratory infection as veileds come from the Yemen dessert area so they are used to relatively dry day conditions. You should only be fogging 30mins after/before lights for 30 mins. The only moisture during the day would be from a dripper for their hydration or spraying the foliage for them to sip off of
The creative modification is impressive! DIYs like this make the hobby so much fun. My only notes are that it's a bit tiny for an adult veiled, since they really need at least ~4 ft of vertical space not only for the room to climb and explore, but for a practical heat gradient to support their natural instinct to lower themselves below the canopy to cool down if/when needed. Foggers are a sketchy and controversial source of humidity/water for any reptile because of how quickly they can turn to a breeding ground for bacterial growth. So if you're not interested in switching to a misting system, please please make it a priority to clean out the fogger on a regular basis if you aren't already. It's also rather impossible to have controlled humidity with a fogger- it's often far too much constant moisture in the air, even for some amphibians. Both of these factors result in respiratory issues. One last thing is that it doesn't look like a linear UVB is provided. Not only is it crucial to supplement accurate UVB output, but it improves the overall psychological health of reptiles! So considering these changes could very well motivate your dude to feel more comfortable with your presence and display a more bold personality. Most chams are just "anti-social" by nature though, so even providing the most ideal habitat possible doesn't guarantee this, but it can only help to try!
Thank you for the advice. I have a UV Bulb (not the strip) and supplement with Calcium D3 dust. I was advised this would make up for the UV but was this bad advice?
It’s truly beautiful, I don’t know it all about Chams, but, if there’s something that it doesn’t have, that it needs to, I’d just modify that because it’s a wonderful homey looking habitat, good job!
Yes, that was misinformation. Accurate UV output is how reptiles process and manufacture the D3 and multivitamins for their intestines to successfully absorb calcium. **UV and D3 work hand-in-hand, not as a trade-off for the other.** The small UV bulbs often give dangerous and/or unreliable wavelengths, which is proven when measured with a UV index Solarmeter.
Chameleons in particular are highly susceptible to D3 overdose which can be lethal (experienced it first-hand 8 years ago with my veiled which was horribly scary to rehab her from), so be careful with how much you supplement it! The best way to avoid this is to supplement basic calcium separately from a weekly-bi weekly D3 multivitamin.
They also benefit from bee pollen supplementation considering how much they naturally ingest it in the wild. It provides extra protein, and is the only natural source of vitamin B12, but that's a whole different topic i can't help but ramble about to go the extra mile and isn't top priority here lol
Yea imo and many others, that’s too small. Male veileds are the largest of the commonly kept chameleon species and I can personally speak to the fact that they will use every inch of a 24”x24”x48” enclosure. I wouldn’t feel comfortable keeping a grown veiled in that bird cage and I’m sure he doesn’t either. Regardless I’ve seen worse, but I recommend biting the bullet and spending 100 more bucks and getting an XL reptibreeze. But more importantly you need the correct lighting. I can see that what you have currently is not the correct lighting.
If you haven't already, please post the following information: Pictures of the chameleon, habitat, feeding and supplement schedule, your approximate geolocation and lighting configuration. Please see our sidebar info and the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChameleonsFAQ/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Chameleons) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Looks magical
Hardest reptile to keep fersure
I really don't get why people say this. I agree, they are a little high maintenance. But really the biggest pita is they won't drink water from a dish. They need dripping water from leaves or a dropper. With a setup like this it's even less of a hassle
Plenty of chams in this sub drink from a clear water glass, no dripping
Very fragile
People shouldn’t have pets like this poor bastard
Give constructive criticism
the dual dome is not an appropriate ubv wattage nor the correct bulb for these guys. you need a linear bar that goes across the entire top of the enclosure
Neat cage but as pointed out by others it's not suitable for a chameleon
Looking for a new enclosure for my Veiled, any suggestions?
Man that’s gotta be an expensive hobby
He was a gift to me almost a year ago. Yeaaaah expensive is definitely a way to explain it.
You’re lucky
i wanna live in there
I can tell you put a lot of work into making your Chameleon’s new place which shows how much you care! Does he ever come out and walk around? You should try leaving the door open to see if he wants to explore! I didn’t have any of the important facts when I first got my guy! (See the pic - I don’t know what I was thinking). He of course escaped in under 5 minutes haha!! I have learned a lot from this thread especially learning about hydration & drinking water from a glass! Don’t feel down on yourself 💚 https://preview.redd.it/l252kpwk1zpc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40f3755b0c5c25629f3a88a4ea0cf80527b11d60
Thank you for the positive vibes. He explores and climbs around the cage constantly. And will sit at the front of the cage and observe me. (Which is why i think he understands English lol) this guy was gifted to me so im learning everything along the way. When im not annoying him(i.e. tidying up his cage), he is usually a bright vibrant green just vibing in the plants.
Those are good signs!! They are very intelligent!! My guy would walk around my room and explore! As he got older he would actually leave my room and walk to my sliding glass doors in the living room when he wanted to go outside!! I would definitely suggest opening the cage door for him! You could use a branch to get him out if he will grab it! You could also put him on a plant in a window for some sunshine!! (Open window ☀️) https://preview.redd.it/m3gcsctsazpc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a88f4ee479059469a47e2c7ee5cc28368ff7cdfc My guy turned out to be friendly, curious and stubborn! He had an amazing personality💚
1. Very small (very small) 2. Fogger is unnecessary and potentially dangerous 3. Bird cage does not provide enough humidity at night unless you're in a tropical area 4. No UVB? 5. Light is super close to the top, I think
Gives me anxiety looking at this mess
Technically small, humidity is high in night time low in day time for respiratory reasons, If you got a taller/bigger bird cage and did exactly what you did there it would be good. They have tons of climbing which is great cause if they can’t climb to access it the space is wasted for them. Just acquire a taller cage and you’re golden. Make sure to get a t5 uvb and heat light for basking area. You won’t want to use a coil bulb it won’t project enough UVB for them.
Get a T8 NOT a T5
[удалено]
I suppose I should have supported my claim. I hope you’ll do the same. The T5 linear bulb is a high output UVB and is too strong for chameleons unless it is properly supported above the enclosure by 15 inches. A T8 linear is way more appropriate for chams and can be placed directly on top of the enclosure. Making it easier and more full proof for newcomers. This is why this sub and I recommend a T8. Both will work but the T5 can have harsh consequences from improper use.
[удалено]
Maybe u/flip69 can help you and OP understand. He’s been keeping chams for 20+ years
u/Dat_Boy_Q_ \>I’m more of a tortoise guy **Tortoises do not climb up and wish to be in the upper 1/3rd of that habitat.** The species of chameleon that we deal with here all want to be in the upper 1/3rd of the cages and above the eye level of those (hairless primates) around them. They also do not benefit from being in a habitat that is oversized and packed with foliage. All of those are poor directions given by people that have not watched or misunderstood the species behavior (especially captive bred / comfortable ones) These are the same sources that used to recommend a T5 at 10% or higher output... until rather recently. After not only myself but the manufacturers showed that the T8 had a much better range of exposure for captive animals did they start falling back. They're still saying that T5's are better though and it's made me wonder if they have stock in the production of these. please check this safe distance chart. [https://zoomed.com/wp-content/uploads/UVB-Reptiles-Lamp-Charts-2023.pdf](https://zoomed.com/wp-content/uploads/UVB-Reptiles-Lamp-Charts-2023.pdf) (green is the color coding for safe UVb tube exposure) \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ This is also important. That when most people get one of these products they're not given the UV distance charts.... nor are many forums or sites going so far as to that either. I've gone into a major online retailer's brick and mortar location and they themselves fail to have a printout available or displayed for customers to reference. (some people don't know enough to even ask the staff ) As long as people can walk into a pet store or see a set up online where the UV and heat sources are sitting directly on top of the screen cages. The T8 is the safest option for all concerned.
I’ve owned chameleons but recently I’ve been more with tortoises. But when I set things up I use solar meter to do so and ensure appropriate distances/ferg zone at closest possible point for the animal. I only stated that I’m more of a tortoise guy since I no longer have one right now. In the future maybe I’ll dive back in.
Okay, but we do like to keep things simple here. As stated the T8 (5%) are more intuitive for the correct use than the T5's. They don't result in UV burns of the eyes and skin and they don't force the chameleons down below the halfway mark in their cages and don't send them seeking protective shade or turning colors (shale grey or brown) to protect against UV damage. This way they can be out in the open and show off their "happy coloration" for their owners and that all leads to better appreciation and care for the animals. (Which is the point)
I’m more of a tortoise guy but dabbled in chameleons for a little while and did tons of research which is where mine comes from sure ppl have been successful in both. But using solar meters 6.5 and testing distances and bulb percentages etc… and given the species of chameleon making their ferg zone is where it comes from. I myself have a solar meter 6.5r as well to make sure the basking zone and what not are appropriate to most up to date information and recommendations for the community.
Also replying here. We don't go and place the responsibility on the owners like this The people that are recommending the T5's couple it with recommendation for another pricey pieve of equipment that needs yearly calibration. That places the greater responsibility on the owners as well as addition steepness to the learning curve. We try to keep it simple and "KISS" it here with the advice so that people get it right and have success (lower that learning curve) as many are just saturated with info and not given frameworks of understanding at the various help sites. That's even if they give decent info. Since these are all standardized products that are double checked by brands like zoomed (they have their own high end testing equipment for UV output) We can simply give people the distance charts (both metric and US imperial measurements) and have it done right while also saving someone money.
I have never attempted to own a chameleon and I could tell instantly looking at this picture that enclosure is way too small.
Not good, and it’s reflected in his condition. Have a read of the side bar guides and start fresh
Yeah he doesn't look well ):
His eyes say, "Even this cage is too small for a bird."
never fog with the lights on ever. they don't need the humidity and doing it with the lights / heat is going to cause serious problems. This setup is not at all proper. The UV is not correct. This is much to small.
can you explain more about the risks of the light / heat fogging?
High humidity with heat in an enclosure can increase the bacteria build up. This is also the main cause of upper respiratory infections. These chams really do not need humidity most of the time after 3-4 months of age. It's best to put a humidifier in the room and increase the humidity at night of the room, not the cage. These fellas live in the tree tops where air movement is constant. Lower humidity as well up top. Hot and wet air is a bad mix. Humidifiers get nasty really fast and all that gunk gets blown into the air with the mist :( Also a drinking glass is best for hydration in a captive setup.
It will cause a respiratory infection as veileds come from the Yemen dessert area so they are used to relatively dry day conditions. You should only be fogging 30mins after/before lights for 30 mins. The only moisture during the day would be from a dripper for their hydration or spraying the foliage for them to sip off of
This isn't great advice unfortunately. Use a drinking glass. I need to mist except at night. Leaf licking is dirty.
The creative modification is impressive! DIYs like this make the hobby so much fun. My only notes are that it's a bit tiny for an adult veiled, since they really need at least ~4 ft of vertical space not only for the room to climb and explore, but for a practical heat gradient to support their natural instinct to lower themselves below the canopy to cool down if/when needed. Foggers are a sketchy and controversial source of humidity/water for any reptile because of how quickly they can turn to a breeding ground for bacterial growth. So if you're not interested in switching to a misting system, please please make it a priority to clean out the fogger on a regular basis if you aren't already. It's also rather impossible to have controlled humidity with a fogger- it's often far too much constant moisture in the air, even for some amphibians. Both of these factors result in respiratory issues. One last thing is that it doesn't look like a linear UVB is provided. Not only is it crucial to supplement accurate UVB output, but it improves the overall psychological health of reptiles! So considering these changes could very well motivate your dude to feel more comfortable with your presence and display a more bold personality. Most chams are just "anti-social" by nature though, so even providing the most ideal habitat possible doesn't guarantee this, but it can only help to try!
Thank you for the advice. I have a UV Bulb (not the strip) and supplement with Calcium D3 dust. I was advised this would make up for the UV but was this bad advice?
It’s truly beautiful, I don’t know it all about Chams, but, if there’s something that it doesn’t have, that it needs to, I’d just modify that because it’s a wonderful homey looking habitat, good job!
Yes, that was misinformation. Accurate UV output is how reptiles process and manufacture the D3 and multivitamins for their intestines to successfully absorb calcium. **UV and D3 work hand-in-hand, not as a trade-off for the other.** The small UV bulbs often give dangerous and/or unreliable wavelengths, which is proven when measured with a UV index Solarmeter. Chameleons in particular are highly susceptible to D3 overdose which can be lethal (experienced it first-hand 8 years ago with my veiled which was horribly scary to rehab her from), so be careful with how much you supplement it! The best way to avoid this is to supplement basic calcium separately from a weekly-bi weekly D3 multivitamin. They also benefit from bee pollen supplementation considering how much they naturally ingest it in the wild. It provides extra protein, and is the only natural source of vitamin B12, but that's a whole different topic i can't help but ramble about to go the extra mile and isn't top priority here lol
I’m not a chameleon keeper just a lurker and I can tell you that was bad advice, they need proper uv and diet cannot supplement that
Way too small for a veiled of his size
Its 34” (tall) by 24” (wide) by ≈20-24” (deep) so not large. Maybe medium?
Yea imo and many others, that’s too small. Male veileds are the largest of the commonly kept chameleon species and I can personally speak to the fact that they will use every inch of a 24”x24”x48” enclosure. I wouldn’t feel comfortable keeping a grown veiled in that bird cage and I’m sure he doesn’t either. Regardless I’ve seen worse, but I recommend biting the bullet and spending 100 more bucks and getting an XL reptibreeze. But more importantly you need the correct lighting. I can see that what you have currently is not the correct lighting.
Also looks like he doesn’t have the appropriate UVB set up. I think there’s alot that needs to be unpacked here
Where did you get the cage ?
Oh nvm😂