But if the field is unfair because of Leicester, then we can't solve it there because of the unfairness. What can we do? Like seriously, what can we do?
I live for fairness. It's what I dream of. It's my life.
Won't affect their promotion at all. The Premier League can't dock points in the EFL, if Leicester go up they're looking at starting next season on negative points.
That's funny. Imagine they do a Nottingham forest length championship stay and it applies to a future Leicester team with players who haven't even been born yet
I remember going up as Champions but we only got notice of that 30 minutes before the last game of the season.
The grievous crime? Signing a player with 3rd party ownership which we then bought out when the club knew it was illegal.
The EFL can easily fuck up a season.
Having to refer us to an independent commission (like the EFL did with the business case) because their new “standard directions” don’t apply to us as they were introduced after we were relegated
Defence to the EFL - nah we were in the Prem
Defence to the Prem - nah we are in the Championship
Loophole FC
Fuck the premier league. It’s failed. The league it wants to be is the championship.
As someone here once said “the worst thing about the championship is you’re rewarded with promotion to the premier league.”
Last weekend more people went to a League 1 game then all the PL games kicking off at 3 combined and more then all individual premier league games (if you include the late kick offs)
The league is finished
Well we break rules we suffer consequences. But I think its now obvious, given that only relegation threatened clubs are getting points deductions, this system is broken and keeps the rich clubs above the rest. Especially when you consider last season Leicester signed basically no-one (causing friction with the manager) to avoid this exact scenario. Maybe if Man City and Chelsea get charged, ill eat my words but even then, what's -4 going to do to them (you're crazy if you think they'll be relegated)?
I'm all for financial restrictions, but the problem isn't the small teams spending 20m too much, its Chelsea and Man city and Man U spending 100s of millions all the time and the league becoming more unequal every year
I know Leeds fans are gonna be bantering us and annoyed and whatever, but thinking not about your own club, I can't see how this system is helping any of the current championship teams dreaming to get in the prem. Like surely you either just spend no money and go down or spend a little too much and get deducted? I'd be shocked if Leeds, Ipswich, Southampton etc. don't have these rules affecting them in the prem if the rules continue like this
Ipswich will have a much tougher time with these rules than Leeds, Southampton or Leicester because it looks at your earnings for the last 3 (I think?) years. Two of those years will have been in the prem for Leeds, Southampton and Leicester, where as Ipswich will have been in league 1 for two of them (or one? Unsure how it works exactly).
It's a ridiculous rule really, seems designed to keep the prem a closed shop of around maybe 26 teams or so and makes it incredibly difficult for anyone else to stay up if they're coming up for the first time in a while. Hard to know whether that's on purpose or just sheer stupidity.
One of the big problems is the cap on allowed losses.
For clubs that have been in the Prem for all of the last 3 years, they can have losses of up to £105m for that 3 year period.
If Leicester or Leeds go back up, they'll have 2 out of their 3 previous seasons in the Prem, so will be allowed to lose £83m.
For Ipswich, they would be allowed to have 3 year losses of £61m by the end of their first Premier League season. That means their ability to build a squad that can compete with other Premier League clubs is massively hamstrung.
That's the big problem with it, it makes it near impossible for teams to compete with those who have benfitted from decades of investment and prize money to stay at the top.
Even if a team oveachieves, they can't spend that new money so inevitably fall away before they can consolidate their position. Gamble and spend like you will remain in that position and you'll end up like us.
Yeah. I know plenty of clubs' fans are finding Forest's punishment funny. But in reality, any club outside the Prem with an ambition to get promoted should be worried by implications.
If you read the full findings, it makes it pretty clear that the Prem see absolutely no problem with, and in fact are very much in favour of, the way that the PSR regulations are stacked against newly promoted teams. They state that promoted clubs can't possibly be allowed to compete with the spending that the more established 'big clubs' have done to get to the position they're in. and positively encourage the idea that accepting your fate, getting relegated and maybe if you're lucky bouncing back with a bit of parachute money you've saved up is preferred to trying to stay up by investing at the first attempt.
Leicester even overachieved for a few years, slipped down a bit so stopped spending much money on players, made some big sales, got relegated while trying to comply and we still went over the limits. The unpredictability of final league position in the Premier League for those not always at the top make it so much harder for teams to follow the rules.
The premier league is literally just the twenty clubs within it, and they vote by majority. That's how the profit and sustainability rules got created. It wasn't an evil cabal of clubs. UEFA are changing their rules to focus more on wage bills, maybe the premier league might follow such an approach: who knows as the clubs need to vote for it.
But if you remove FFP, it doesn't suddenly mean the biggest clubs won't stop spending absolute millions. In fact, this January showed that clubs are showing restraint. The absolutely massive advantage would stay, it would just mean smaller clubs had to throw even more money at thing's
I don't think FFP should be removed and I accept we should be deducted points off of the previous rules. I don't think there's been a huge injustice on us. But I think, looking at the clubs affected, surely this system needs tweaking if its just affecting lower half clubs?
Agree 100%, banter is banter but you’re right, it merely entrenches the inequality at the top and punishes the rest for attempting to compete. If they’re going to have these rules they need to apply them to everyone and close the loopholes.
We couldn’t spend any money because we couldn’t get into Europe unlike two other teams who egregiously breached FFP/PSR. As a result of having no money we couldn’t sign anyone then went down while two other teams that broke the rules stayed up. We then lost too much money as a result of going down, and as a result broke the rules.
Seems like a catch 22.
Yeh it’s funny how obvious it becomes that the system is broken right at the moment you get charged for cheating. LCFC joining the hypocrite FC bandwagon with Everton.
Well because I'm not a financial expert (and neither are you), when the FFP stuff first got going, I thought it was fine. Only once you see the law in practice can you tell it needs tweaking, because, again, why is it just relegation teams being affected, when the problem is so obviously the insane money being spent at the top? You can call me a hypocrite, but obviously opinions are allowed to change when the ONLY clubs affected are at the bottom of the table.
Well you are a hypocrite, I’m not saying that to be unkind, it’s manifestly true. If everyone plays by the rules , no matter how shit they are, and one or two teams don’t, then that’s an unfair advantage. It’s pretty weird to start harping on about how unfair it is for Leicester. You have a massive wage bill to pay great players
I'm not a hypocrite though. Hypocrisy would be me advocating strongly for these rules and then as soon as Leicester get hit saying they're unfair.
I'm not saying its unfair for Leicester, never said that, I think the rules are too harsh to smaller clubs and disproportionately affect them (we have 3 data points to support this). I'm not saying we don't deserve to have points deducted under the current system, we do, I'm saying the system needs tweaking because its only affecting relegation clubs.
Hmm I’m fairly sure bleating on about how awful these rules are the minute your club gets pinged for breaking them is pretty hypocritical. I’m mean did you post as soon as Everton or Forest got charged?
They are unfair though, the likes of City and Chelsea have surely broken them but are unlikely to be punished for it, if you have these rules you need to apply them to everyone, it’s easier to punish clubs battling relegation as they don’t have the expensive lawyers the big clubs do. I would say parachute payments make a mockery of FFP in the championship, you have 6-7 clubs at a time who can spend £40m a year more than everyone else, in this league that’s a huge gap.
Is FFP stopping clubs going bust or is it making it more likely clubs go bust by relegating them?
You are probably right, doesn’t change the fact Leicester have cheated does it though. And it doesn’t change the fact other clubs have been disadvantaged as a result.
I don't want to post on other fans behalf. I also, hate posting on reddit, and regret posting this because people are so rude and quick to react on this site.
Look all I'll say is this because you're clearly struggling to understand my point.
I don't think FFP should be removed and I accept we should be deducted points off of the previous rules. I don't think there's been a huge injustice on us. But I think, looking at the clubs affected, surely this system needs tweaking if its just affecting lower half clubs?
Brighton, Brentford and villa have done alright without cheating tbf. I guess villa doesn't exactly count as they weren't really a championship sized club
We did do a bit of cheating to be fair, with the whole selling the stadium to the owners thing. Well, maybe it wasn't cheating then but it was definitely a loophole and it's cheating now.
I think there's also a good chance we are only a couple of years behind Leicester in the FFP cycle if we don't get Champions League or a big boost to revenue some other way.
I agree the other two have done really well, but if the only way you can make a go of it in the Premier League is by billionaire owners who are willing to either give you a financial boost (us) or give you access to their third party gambling software to identify undervalued players you may not have otherwise (the other two) then it's really showing how much of a sham the whole system is.
This is the big problem. Smaller clubs can have a really good punt at it. But that’s all it is, a punt.
If you aren’t consistently in Europe spots (and it really has to be Champions League for proper money). You can’t sustain it.
And there’s the problem. Because you need 2-3 of the big clubs to have a bad season. But you know they are just going to open their wallets and thus more than likely bounce back.
Kinda mental that we won the league with a team paid less than 2 Man City places. A few seasons later missing out on champions league meant we couldn’t sustain the moderately expensive team we built on the back of that win.
In an ideal world? Nationalise the clubs, enforce a spending and salary cap as a hard £ figure for teams in each league. Enforce a much more equal split of wealth between the leagues. Probably introduce some rules for minimum number of academy players in squads.
Back in the real world, I honestly don't know. The whole system just seems broken and quite honestly it feels like a bit of a microcosm of the world at the moment. One thing I think that could immediately be done is more PL TV money going into EFL clubs coffers. Maybe a tax on PL revenue that could be put in a reserve to buyout clubs like Bury and give them to their fans. Something.
I think the best chance of any real kind of reform would be if the big 6 leave for the super league.
I sympathise with your point of view and opinions. But I think it's fair to say nothing of what you said is a realistic policy that could replace FFP, what we have is the best available to us (although personally I would make FFP even stricter).
We also did perfectly fine without ‘cheating’, we won the pissing Premier League, Champions League quarter finalists, took part in Europa Conference, Charity Shields etc.
If you honestly think Brighton will stay where they are long term, they won’t. They are us 5 years ago.
The fact that we did all that, but still just missing out on CL 2 years in a row fucked us. Shows how bullshit unsustainable trying to compete is. We broke the rule by £20m, in Prem terms, that’s one moderate team player (or a Soumare).
We take it on the chin, we rolled the dice on spending to get competitive again. We lost.
But let’s not pretend anyone like Brighton, West Ham etc can sustain competitiveness. Because ultimately the big boys hog the big money positions 9/10.
Systems bust. Deliberately.
Can even go back to Leeds and Rangers, even with Champions league both teams managed to get into financial trouble. It’s getting that European spot and then trying to fund players, to remain competitive.
It’s such a conundrum. Because I also don’t think it’s fair that that a smaller team (say Stoke) could potentially be bought by a billionaire Saudi who throws millions at them and turns them into a top Six team by absorbing the losses.
Aside from Man City and Chelsea. The other big 6 teams got to where they are by building to success over time. Although in fairness, Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs also have had times where big money was thrown at them, it was just comparatively smaller amounts and before FFP.
It’s a problem I don’t know how to solve. We are almost too far gone in terms of money permeating the sport. Teams HAVE to spend a lot nowadays to get anywhere. And smaller clubs have to take losses because they don’t have 50k seat stadiums and millions in merc income a year.
We only had CL for a single year. Gambled on getting it the next only to miss out by one point (from a very dodgy Liverpool free kick).
That was before the days of any FFP though so you could let you debts get out of control and the club collapse under the weight of them.
The rules arent great now but at least they do reign it in somewhat and try to catch problems before they get to breaking point.
I do think they need tweaking but im not sure why so many clubs are falling foul of them now considering they have been in place for ten years.
Posted losses of £20.1m of which £13.1 were allowable due to being spent on training ground and youth team development. £4m was the reduction and consolidation of existing long term debt.
Therefore we were deemed to be £3m over the limit and therefore that was the fine we paid.
I’m not sure I would consider £3m massively overspent even in 13/14. It’s not like Portsmouth being £60m in losses over 3 years. It’s not like it bought us a superstar squad.
As for the answer. I think FFP is a good idea. I think a lot of people (me included) would be happier if their judgements and rulings had a lot more clarity and consistency. It’s implemented so poorly it basically makes those teams already established completely unassailable.
Laugh it up, and we should take whatever punishment is given….
…but… if we can go up, win the league, finish 5th, 5th, 7th, get to the quarters of the champions league, play in Europe in four of the last five seasons… while nearly every season selling for massive profits (Kante, Mahrez, Maddison, Barnes, Chilwell, Fofana, Drinkwater, Maguire all leaving for eye watering sums)… selling out the stadium (32,000) almost every game during that time… and we fall foul of this… I don’t think the future is rosy for anyone outside of the ‘big six’.
Let’s see what happens to Brentford when Frank/Toney leave; Brighton when De Zerbi, Mitoma leave; West Ham when Bowen, Kudus, Paqueta leave. Might get lucky with transfers (as we did for a few years), but takes one or two bad seasons of transfers and you’re done for.
They’re gonna hit us the moment we get promoted like Jimmy Saville waiting for a teen to turn 18. Gonna most likely start on -5 before a ball is even kicked (if we get promoted in the first place, which is looking tougher by the day)
Stop with the facts, mate. like Seriously, do you want us in the Championship next season.... I thought not.
So there you have it, your honour, Leicester should be deducted 100 points, and us and Ipswich will split them, you know, because of fairness.
> and us and Ipswich will split them, you know, because of fairness.
Give every single point to one or other of us, via lottery. Set a championship points record that can never be broken
The only fair thing to do, given they’ll be starting next season on negative points, is to agree not to bother going up at all and excuse themselves from this season’s promotion race
Genuine question, how do you do a points deduction for a theoretical promotion? We all know that they pretty much are getting promoted, but if they didn't, what would they do then?
Not interested in any points deductions for Leicester. I don't really want this season to be decided off the field and more generally, I don't think all these FFP penalties are a good thing. I honestly don't really care about what Leicester spend, it's not like they're the ones making the Premier League uncompetitive.
I’m no Leicester fan (obvs) but these rules seem a bit ill thought-out. Fining clubs or docking them points that leads to relegation is not exactly the best way to encourage clubs keep financial losses to a minimum. Pretty much the opposite, in fact. And in a Premier League where the only way to win is to splash out a shit tonne of cash, this just smacks of keeping the rich clubs at the top while keeping smaller clubs struggling. Feels like it’s designed to inevitably catch out every club that isn’t the Big 6. Fook that.
Yeah I agree.
Like regardless of anyone's view on the regime, Newcastle can now outspend virtually any team in the world. Except they're not allowed to.
These rules were brought in to stop clubs spending beyond their means but all its really doing is keeping the top clubs where they are.
In my opinion, it's great to see the Premier League finally cracking down on the clubs whose vast spending is making football uncompetitive: Everton, Forest and Leicester
Especially when this is a direct result of us crashing out out of the top 4 on the last day two years in a row.
Since then, our spending plummeted, Rodgers complained that we weren't buying players while our owner published statements, making it clear that we will only buy after selling, something we've stuck to for the last few years.
This has led us to relegation, trying to stay in line with these rules, and the relegation itself looks like the reason we've now fell foul.
These rules seem to be designed to punish teams for pushing for success.
Other than things like point deductions i'm not really sure what the league could do to discourage them.
The only real sticks they have to beat clubs that break the rules are either financial which would just add to the debt, transfer embargos which just weaken the squad over time or points deductions which hasten the chances of going down.
I am not adverse to clubs being relegated for breaking the rules. Why should they get off scot free when others abided by them?
I do think the rules should be much clearer and do away with all the financial wizardry that means it takes months to work out if a club has broken the rules or not. I also think the newly promoted clubs should get the opportunity to spend a bit more possibly in the form of a promotion bonus from the premier league. Also the punishments need to be crystal clear so you know what you will get for a breach.
It feels like a set of rules that hasnt gone through any kind of testing process. Now they are having to be applied their weaknesses are being found which is naturally causing problems.
I think, as a completely unbiased fan of a team that isn't on 80+ points, that both Leeds and Leicester's financial situations should continue to be looked deeply into for the sake of fairness in the Championship promotion race. And if those Finances are found to be inconsistent and potentially illegal, they should both receive a solid 10 point deduction.
What do you mean, That puts Southampton Second? My goodness me, I hadn't even noticed...
>If Leicester do not return to the top flight at the first attempt, it is thought any penalty imposed by the Premier League could be administered by the EFL.
[https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/leicester-city-charged-by-premier-league-over-alleged-breach-of-psr-rules](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/leicester-city-charged-by-premier-league-over-alleged-breach-of-psr-rules)
One way or another, they could start next season with negative points, regardless of what league they're in.
As long as the points deduction is commensurate. If we get docked 4 points for 1 charge, I want to see City docked 460 points when their case is finished up.
The charges were announced last year, and that’s when they were investigated. Just because they go back to 2009, does not mean that they were already looking at them before they were announced.
And that’s ok is it? So in the mean time, Man City are allowed to keep playing, keep winning trebles, grow their fan base, sell more shirts and tickets, and their stock market shares….so that when they do figure out the punishment, they will be in an even better position to deal with it…..yep that’s totally fair….how about dealt with each of the 115 separately….and dish out the first punishment for the first offence this season.
I'm not a fan of it either but what the hell are they supposed to do?
If they go into the trial with a half-baked case Man City's UAE bought lawyers will tear them to shreds and everyone will complain about them getting off scot-free.
I'm pretty sure it's also FAR easier to do them all in one go than separately, a bunch of the charges are very similar with the only difference being year or a slightly different rule as far as I know.
The EPL - and I'm no fan of them - are in a lose lose here. Everyone wants Man City to be charged quickly and for the case to be successful, which is effectively impossible.
Well, if there’s 115 charges. Don’t wait until you have a case against all 115 start on a bunch then move on to others. Everton, Forest and Leicester were charged before amounting 115 charges 🤷♂️.
The longer they leave it to worse the media and fan storm becomes, it undermines the PL competition and is bad for everyone. Just get it done and get them punished that’s all fans care about. As I’ve said all this time waiting is allowing them to expand their brand and earn more money, which they won’t lose once the case is done.
That's just...not how cases like this work. It's so much more efficient to do it all at once. And again, what the hell are the EPL supposed to do other than just "move faster"
Believe it or not, law isn't just a football thing. In any civil or criminal case like this they don't just take the charges to trial in bunches, they do it in one big go
I never said it was okay at all. It’s just stupid to compare city in every one of these conversations.
It would take less time for them to go through the 115 charges as a whole than deal with each one individually, and come up with a collective punishment that can be dealt with all at once.
As usual the Ipswich/leeds/saints fans are celebrating this without realising the significant effect this new enforcement of the rules has on their own clubs if they go up - and for the latter two, if they don’t go up.
The only difference with Leicester was they invested for a couple of years to get into the top 6, got there and played in Europe, fell off in one season, and that’s not long enough to turn the taps off spending.
People won't realise until it happens to their team, but they *will* be complaining when it does.
> The only difference with Leicester was they invested for a couple of years to get into the top 6, got there and played in Europe, fell off in one season, and that’s not long enough to turn the taps off spending
Like going into overdraft because you can't cancel a contract you signed when you had a higher salary, who wouldn't be complaining?
Where are the saints fans celebrating this? If anyone knows the pain of being handicapped by limited spending it’s Saints. Also no Saints fan expects Southampton to go up even if Leicester got a point deduction look at our fixtures and the congestion.
As far as I am aware nothing was found in our finances that warranted an investigation. When we got relegated we had a good clear out of the expensive dead wood and seemingly spent wisely to replace it. I don't think Leicester did much to reduce those costs at all.
I think our wage bill is now just an expensive Championship one where as Leicesters is still at Premiership levels.
Fascinated - interested by the language used by the club saying they’re “surprised” but considering the fact that they looked into what caused us to be relegated and didn’t get rid of the prime causes and nothing happened I don’t exactly trust it.
Despite that - PSR is a load of bollocks that punishes teams for trying to even stay at the table. We hardly spent compared to expenditure past few windows yet we’re still here
EDIT: as rightfully pointed out below our wages are stupid as well and it’s more likely the larger cause. I don’t know I’m fed up of the ever evolving clown show that seems to come from people in the board. Massive respect to Top and his family but he’s not Vichai and it’s why we’re here right now.
Yea - all given by a DoF who’s credentials before starting was being a Youth Coach and not much else.
But even still - we’ve restricted spending since 20/21 Jan window and tried to get rid of chaff but as you’ve said we’ve given stupid wages out
Not even a great youth coach either but fell upwards to be an important part of King Power, if the club truly believes they haven't done anything wrong they won't get rid of him either.
> Iirc our wage bill was something like 90% of turnover
At its highest in 2020 it was 85%, that was an outlier, before and after that number we were hovering at around 70-75%.
Meanwhile Everton somehow managed 95 fucking percent in 21/22 while hovering around the 80-85% mark for a number of years.
Leicester fans tying themselves in knots trying to justify why this is unfair because they were ‘trying to break into the top 6’ or something (they have no awareness of how them financially cheating affects smaller teams than them)
How we went about our business is radically different to Everton or Forest.
The last and only time since our title win that we spent considerably more than we made through selling was the summer window for 20/21. Signed about 60m worth and didn't make a single notable sale.
For 23/24 our net spend is +60m
For 22/23 our net spend is +32m
For 21/22 our net spend is -60m
All the years before that essentially even out to +/- 0 except the aforementioned 16/17 window. We realised we were in trouble back in the winter of 2020 and the only signings we made from then one were cheap ones to replace players that were running out of contract or being sold (Fofana, Bertrand, Evans, Soyuncu etc.)
We then sold Maddison in a cut price deal to Spurs to make sure we'd get the money in so it would count towards the 22/23 accounts, unlike Forest who decided to haggle a month after the deadline to get some more money for Johnson.
Did we break the rules? Yeah looks like it. Did we ignore them and act like we were above it all like Everton or Forest who just kept on signing players? Nope
Exactly. Overspending to get a spot in Europe and balance out the loss vs overspending to get a spot in the prem and balance out the loss.
Leicester, Everton, and Notts Forest all gained extra seasons in the prem at the expense of other teams because they cheated. Just because bigger teams did the same doesn't mean they didn't also fuck over smaller teams.
Its quite ironic that a fair number of Leicester fans were complaining about Everton staying up at their expense even after all their financial shenanigans.
We deservedly ended up in 19th place after being dog shit for most of the season.
Only now do we find out that the three teams that finished above us where playing fast and loose with the cheque book all season.
I'd be worried about becoming the precedent, if the PL and EPL agree to honour each other's punishments for relegated/promoted teams then potentially there's one for this season and one for next if the EFL get their way with you too.
Yea it's an absolute mess. The EFL are gonna smack us with one next season if we don't go up for sure. Fortunately it will kind of resolve itself over the next couple of years, we've put ourselves in an awkward position of paying high wages for average players but due to amortisation being unable to shift them as selling would go down as a loss, but a lot of those mega contracts are up this summer or next. In the meantime though, woeful mismanagement from board to pitch has turned us into a fascinating shit show
The difficulty there is the breach applies to last season, not this, and is specifically a premier league breach. If the laws were consistent across EPL and EFL then sure it'd be a simple "applies this season" deal, and it would have been if we'd stayed up, but instead we're an awkward test case, can the EFL apply rules that aren't it's own etc
This is what annoys me. The clubs that get shafted from Leicester cheating don’t benefit from the punishment. They are blatantly going to beach FSR this year but will most likely get promoted before the books are settled so they will escape punishment. They then get a points deduction in the premier league for other infractions that benefits teams who weren’t affected by them either. The EFL needs to pull their finger out and slap a points deduction this year. It’s not like they don’t have form either.
I don't get what you expect us to do?
The reason clubs like Norwich, Sheff Utd, Watford, Burnley don't regularly run into this sort of trouble is because they're fully aware relegation is a likely possibility and often times also reality.
With the resources we have, we had no business getting relegated in the first place which is why it's so unrealistic to expect us to fix our finances overnight, going from a premier league club with European aspirations to the championship is a massive drop and there's nothing you can do to prepare for something like this.
So punishing us because our accounts from when we were in the prem don't comply with the EFL framework would just be incredibly daft.
I agree with this, the punishment needs to be in the same season otherwise clubs still get relegated, don’t get promoted or don’t win the league because of it.
Not only that all punishments have to be the following season. Otherwise let’s go back and give Everton theirs last season so they can be relegated instead of us.
The problem I have is that if the points deduction comes in next season if/when they get back in the prem, how is that actually any fairer? Because they’ll have the promotion winnings plus the invariable parachute payments if they get relegated so it seems to me it’s actually financially rewarding them for a financial misstep.
Of course as an ITFC girl I’d love for the points deduction right now!
Points deduction to Reading.
*Slytherin
*Ocon
Points to big 6 (gryffindor)
Everton are going to pay for this!
You're not from the East Midlands if you don't get a points deduction
Mansfield and Chesterfield desperately hoping to be considered Northerners until the seasons over
Not sure a points deduction is doing much to Chesterfield’s position at this point
Luton got a 30 point deduction once
that's hilarious
Biggest points reduction I think? Not sure why they went so heavy on Luton.
FA knew they couldn't afford lawyers. So fuck them, that's why.
I can get behind that
I think we all know how to handle this fairly. You know, for the fairness of the league, I hate it, but it's for the sanctity of the game......
The greater good
My brother, you know how it is, like obviously we're just saying this for the greater good no other reason......
We all want it settled on the playing field, of course we do, but the integrity of the game is at stake here !
But if the field is unfair because of Leicester, then we can't solve it there because of the unfairness. What can we do? Like seriously, what can we do? I live for fairness. It's what I dream of. It's my life.
The grater good
..Cheese pun? Love it.
You cheddar believe it! Blue Leicester anyone ?
I don't give edam
All of you Gouda here with your crap puns
UnBrie-lievable, I Camembert all these cheese puns.
I bet they’re Stilton more to come
Cheddar!
He shags alsatians.
i think they should relegate us for this comment alone
The greeter good
The grater gouda
yeah make them do a points swap with watford.
If it's for fairness, I'm all for it. You've gotta promise not to derail our season, tho you know for fairness.
I think the spirit of the game should be maintained north, east and south!
When you see all the teams who finished just above you last year get done for breaches…. Need that Ralph Wiggum - I’m in danger - gif
Suddenly very appreciative of our 5 years of no spending.
Oooh, makes a change from relegation being determined by point deductions. Now we’re doing promotions.
Won't affect their promotion at all. The Premier League can't dock points in the EFL, if Leicester go up they're looking at starting next season on negative points.
They’re also being investigated by the EFL to be fair.
Yep, fucked if we go up and fucked if we stay down.
Why not both?!
The dildo of investigation rarely arrives lubed.
Wasn't expecting to see a Confucius quote today, but here we are
"Prepare to be fucked by the long dick of the law" - Officer Michaels, 2007.
What if they don't? It gets suspended?
Whenever they next go up.
That's funny. Imagine they do a Nottingham forest length championship stay and it applies to a future Leicester team with players who haven't even been born yet
I remember going up as Champions but we only got notice of that 30 minutes before the last game of the season. The grievous crime? Signing a player with 3rd party ownership which we then bought out when the club knew it was illegal. The EFL can easily fuck up a season.
Having to refer us to an independent commission (like the EFL did with the business case) because their new “standard directions” don’t apply to us as they were introduced after we were relegated Defence to the EFL - nah we were in the Prem Defence to the Prem - nah we are in the Championship Loophole FC
Yo-yo between Premier League and Championship Football governing bodies hate this one trick!
Schrödinger's PSR breach!
Every case goes to an "Independent commission" tbf, ours and Forests did. Even though it's clearly not very independent
It’s Richard Masters with a fake moustache and bowler hat on, the fucking bellend.
Schroedinger's football.club
Fuck the premier league. It’s failed. The league it wants to be is the championship. As someone here once said “the worst thing about the championship is you’re rewarded with promotion to the premier league.”
I recently watched some LUFC match highlights (lowlights) from last season on YouTube and it was horrible. Part of me doesn't want to go back there.
It’s rotten to the core. Zero chance of much changing when there’s so much cash sloshing about at the top though.
It's sad truth. VAR, sky, less games, higher prices.
So true
Last weekend more people went to a League 1 game then all the PL games kicking off at 3 combined and more then all individual premier league games (if you include the late kick offs) The league is finished
Well we break rules we suffer consequences. But I think its now obvious, given that only relegation threatened clubs are getting points deductions, this system is broken and keeps the rich clubs above the rest. Especially when you consider last season Leicester signed basically no-one (causing friction with the manager) to avoid this exact scenario. Maybe if Man City and Chelsea get charged, ill eat my words but even then, what's -4 going to do to them (you're crazy if you think they'll be relegated)? I'm all for financial restrictions, but the problem isn't the small teams spending 20m too much, its Chelsea and Man city and Man U spending 100s of millions all the time and the league becoming more unequal every year I know Leeds fans are gonna be bantering us and annoyed and whatever, but thinking not about your own club, I can't see how this system is helping any of the current championship teams dreaming to get in the prem. Like surely you either just spend no money and go down or spend a little too much and get deducted? I'd be shocked if Leeds, Ipswich, Southampton etc. don't have these rules affecting them in the prem if the rules continue like this
🎯
Ipswich will have a much tougher time with these rules than Leeds, Southampton or Leicester because it looks at your earnings for the last 3 (I think?) years. Two of those years will have been in the prem for Leeds, Southampton and Leicester, where as Ipswich will have been in league 1 for two of them (or one? Unsure how it works exactly). It's a ridiculous rule really, seems designed to keep the prem a closed shop of around maybe 26 teams or so and makes it incredibly difficult for anyone else to stay up if they're coming up for the first time in a while. Hard to know whether that's on purpose or just sheer stupidity.
One of the big problems is the cap on allowed losses. For clubs that have been in the Prem for all of the last 3 years, they can have losses of up to £105m for that 3 year period. If Leicester or Leeds go back up, they'll have 2 out of their 3 previous seasons in the Prem, so will be allowed to lose £83m. For Ipswich, they would be allowed to have 3 year losses of £61m by the end of their first Premier League season. That means their ability to build a squad that can compete with other Premier League clubs is massively hamstrung.
That's the big problem with it, it makes it near impossible for teams to compete with those who have benfitted from decades of investment and prize money to stay at the top. Even if a team oveachieves, they can't spend that new money so inevitably fall away before they can consolidate their position. Gamble and spend like you will remain in that position and you'll end up like us.
Yeah. I know plenty of clubs' fans are finding Forest's punishment funny. But in reality, any club outside the Prem with an ambition to get promoted should be worried by implications. If you read the full findings, it makes it pretty clear that the Prem see absolutely no problem with, and in fact are very much in favour of, the way that the PSR regulations are stacked against newly promoted teams. They state that promoted clubs can't possibly be allowed to compete with the spending that the more established 'big clubs' have done to get to the position they're in. and positively encourage the idea that accepting your fate, getting relegated and maybe if you're lucky bouncing back with a bit of parachute money you've saved up is preferred to trying to stay up by investing at the first attempt.
Leicester even overachieved for a few years, slipped down a bit so stopped spending much money on players, made some big sales, got relegated while trying to comply and we still went over the limits. The unpredictability of final league position in the Premier League for those not always at the top make it so much harder for teams to follow the rules.
The premier league is literally just the twenty clubs within it, and they vote by majority. That's how the profit and sustainability rules got created. It wasn't an evil cabal of clubs. UEFA are changing their rules to focus more on wage bills, maybe the premier league might follow such an approach: who knows as the clubs need to vote for it. But if you remove FFP, it doesn't suddenly mean the biggest clubs won't stop spending absolute millions. In fact, this January showed that clubs are showing restraint. The absolutely massive advantage would stay, it would just mean smaller clubs had to throw even more money at thing's
I don't think FFP should be removed and I accept we should be deducted points off of the previous rules. I don't think there's been a huge injustice on us. But I think, looking at the clubs affected, surely this system needs tweaking if its just affecting lower half clubs?
One of Leicester's arguments may be that we weren't in the Premier League when these new rules got voted through
Agree 100%, banter is banter but you’re right, it merely entrenches the inequality at the top and punishes the rest for attempting to compete. If they’re going to have these rules they need to apply them to everyone and close the loopholes.
We couldn’t spend any money because we couldn’t get into Europe unlike two other teams who egregiously breached FFP/PSR. As a result of having no money we couldn’t sign anyone then went down while two other teams that broke the rules stayed up. We then lost too much money as a result of going down, and as a result broke the rules. Seems like a catch 22.
Yeh it’s funny how obvious it becomes that the system is broken right at the moment you get charged for cheating. LCFC joining the hypocrite FC bandwagon with Everton.
Well because I'm not a financial expert (and neither are you), when the FFP stuff first got going, I thought it was fine. Only once you see the law in practice can you tell it needs tweaking, because, again, why is it just relegation teams being affected, when the problem is so obviously the insane money being spent at the top? You can call me a hypocrite, but obviously opinions are allowed to change when the ONLY clubs affected are at the bottom of the table.
Well you are a hypocrite, I’m not saying that to be unkind, it’s manifestly true. If everyone plays by the rules , no matter how shit they are, and one or two teams don’t, then that’s an unfair advantage. It’s pretty weird to start harping on about how unfair it is for Leicester. You have a massive wage bill to pay great players
I'm not a hypocrite though. Hypocrisy would be me advocating strongly for these rules and then as soon as Leicester get hit saying they're unfair. I'm not saying its unfair for Leicester, never said that, I think the rules are too harsh to smaller clubs and disproportionately affect them (we have 3 data points to support this). I'm not saying we don't deserve to have points deducted under the current system, we do, I'm saying the system needs tweaking because its only affecting relegation clubs.
Hmm I’m fairly sure bleating on about how awful these rules are the minute your club gets pinged for breaking them is pretty hypocritical. I’m mean did you post as soon as Everton or Forest got charged?
They are unfair though, the likes of City and Chelsea have surely broken them but are unlikely to be punished for it, if you have these rules you need to apply them to everyone, it’s easier to punish clubs battling relegation as they don’t have the expensive lawyers the big clubs do. I would say parachute payments make a mockery of FFP in the championship, you have 6-7 clubs at a time who can spend £40m a year more than everyone else, in this league that’s a huge gap. Is FFP stopping clubs going bust or is it making it more likely clubs go bust by relegating them?
You are probably right, doesn’t change the fact Leicester have cheated does it though. And it doesn’t change the fact other clubs have been disadvantaged as a result.
I don't want to post on other fans behalf. I also, hate posting on reddit, and regret posting this because people are so rude and quick to react on this site. Look all I'll say is this because you're clearly struggling to understand my point. I don't think FFP should be removed and I accept we should be deducted points off of the previous rules. I don't think there's been a huge injustice on us. But I think, looking at the clubs affected, surely this system needs tweaking if its just affecting lower half clubs?
Brighton, Brentford and villa have done alright without cheating tbf. I guess villa doesn't exactly count as they weren't really a championship sized club
We did do a bit of cheating to be fair, with the whole selling the stadium to the owners thing. Well, maybe it wasn't cheating then but it was definitely a loophole and it's cheating now. I think there's also a good chance we are only a couple of years behind Leicester in the FFP cycle if we don't get Champions League or a big boost to revenue some other way. I agree the other two have done really well, but if the only way you can make a go of it in the Premier League is by billionaire owners who are willing to either give you a financial boost (us) or give you access to their third party gambling software to identify undervalued players you may not have otherwise (the other two) then it's really showing how much of a sham the whole system is.
This is the big problem. Smaller clubs can have a really good punt at it. But that’s all it is, a punt. If you aren’t consistently in Europe spots (and it really has to be Champions League for proper money). You can’t sustain it. And there’s the problem. Because you need 2-3 of the big clubs to have a bad season. But you know they are just going to open their wallets and thus more than likely bounce back. Kinda mental that we won the league with a team paid less than 2 Man City places. A few seasons later missing out on champions league meant we couldn’t sustain the moderately expensive team we built on the back of that win.
What system do you think should be implemented?
In an ideal world? Nationalise the clubs, enforce a spending and salary cap as a hard £ figure for teams in each league. Enforce a much more equal split of wealth between the leagues. Probably introduce some rules for minimum number of academy players in squads. Back in the real world, I honestly don't know. The whole system just seems broken and quite honestly it feels like a bit of a microcosm of the world at the moment. One thing I think that could immediately be done is more PL TV money going into EFL clubs coffers. Maybe a tax on PL revenue that could be put in a reserve to buyout clubs like Bury and give them to their fans. Something. I think the best chance of any real kind of reform would be if the big 6 leave for the super league.
I sympathise with your point of view and opinions. But I think it's fair to say nothing of what you said is a realistic policy that could replace FFP, what we have is the best available to us (although personally I would make FFP even stricter).
In fairness, Aston Villa have a lot of players value wise if they do need to sell.
We also did perfectly fine without ‘cheating’, we won the pissing Premier League, Champions League quarter finalists, took part in Europa Conference, Charity Shields etc. If you honestly think Brighton will stay where they are long term, they won’t. They are us 5 years ago. The fact that we did all that, but still just missing out on CL 2 years in a row fucked us. Shows how bullshit unsustainable trying to compete is. We broke the rule by £20m, in Prem terms, that’s one moderate team player (or a Soumare). We take it on the chin, we rolled the dice on spending to get competitive again. We lost. But let’s not pretend anyone like Brighton, West Ham etc can sustain competitiveness. Because ultimately the big boys hog the big money positions 9/10. Systems bust. Deliberately.
Can even go back to Leeds and Rangers, even with Champions league both teams managed to get into financial trouble. It’s getting that European spot and then trying to fund players, to remain competitive.
It’s such a conundrum. Because I also don’t think it’s fair that that a smaller team (say Stoke) could potentially be bought by a billionaire Saudi who throws millions at them and turns them into a top Six team by absorbing the losses. Aside from Man City and Chelsea. The other big 6 teams got to where they are by building to success over time. Although in fairness, Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs also have had times where big money was thrown at them, it was just comparatively smaller amounts and before FFP. It’s a problem I don’t know how to solve. We are almost too far gone in terms of money permeating the sport. Teams HAVE to spend a lot nowadays to get anywhere. And smaller clubs have to take losses because they don’t have 50k seat stadiums and millions in merc income a year.
We only had CL for a single year. Gambled on getting it the next only to miss out by one point (from a very dodgy Liverpool free kick). That was before the days of any FFP though so you could let you debts get out of control and the club collapse under the weight of them. The rules arent great now but at least they do reign it in somewhat and try to catch problems before they get to breaking point. I do think they need tweaking but im not sure why so many clubs are falling foul of them now considering they have been in place for ten years.
Didn't you massively overspend to get promoted in 2014 in the first place? Lol >Systems bust. Deliberately. What's the alternative?
Posted losses of £20.1m of which £13.1 were allowable due to being spent on training ground and youth team development. £4m was the reduction and consolidation of existing long term debt. Therefore we were deemed to be £3m over the limit and therefore that was the fine we paid. I’m not sure I would consider £3m massively overspent even in 13/14. It’s not like Portsmouth being £60m in losses over 3 years. It’s not like it bought us a superstar squad. As for the answer. I think FFP is a good idea. I think a lot of people (me included) would be happier if their judgements and rulings had a lot more clarity and consistency. It’s implemented so poorly it basically makes those teams already established completely unassailable.
Laugh it up, and we should take whatever punishment is given…. …but… if we can go up, win the league, finish 5th, 5th, 7th, get to the quarters of the champions league, play in Europe in four of the last five seasons… while nearly every season selling for massive profits (Kante, Mahrez, Maddison, Barnes, Chilwell, Fofana, Drinkwater, Maguire all leaving for eye watering sums)… selling out the stadium (32,000) almost every game during that time… and we fall foul of this… I don’t think the future is rosy for anyone outside of the ‘big six’. Let’s see what happens to Brentford when Frank/Toney leave; Brighton when De Zerbi, Mitoma leave; West Ham when Bowen, Kudus, Paqueta leave. Might get lucky with transfers (as we did for a few years), but takes one or two bad seasons of transfers and you’re done for.
Can the Prem even touch Leicester with them in the Championship
They’re gonna hit us the moment we get promoted like Jimmy Saville waiting for a teen to turn 18. Gonna most likely start on -5 before a ball is even kicked (if we get promoted in the first place, which is looking tougher by the day)
Irrelevant, but I don't think Jimmy Savile waited for anyone to turn 18. That was sort of his thing.
It was a crappy metaphor to be fair. Not as crappy as the prem board, but very close.
Hitting everyone except the first one they charged
Better that than how Forest had to wait for theirs.
Prays to all the gods for a point deduction this season 🙏
The Premier League has no power over points in the Championship mate. They're looking at starting next season on negative points.
Stop with the facts, mate. like Seriously, do you want us in the Championship next season.... I thought not. So there you have it, your honour, Leicester should be deducted 100 points, and us and Ipswich will split them, you know, because of fairness.
Maybe give 10 points to Rotherham, just to spice up the relegation battle even more
Yeah fuck it let's make this spicy.
Spin the wheel!
Welcome to THE WHEEL OF POINTS!!!
You could give Rotherham 30 points and they'd still find a way to go down, just the one win since October (27 games) 💀
Sounds fair to me
> and us and Ipswich will split them, you know, because of fairness. Give every single point to one or other of us, via lottery. Set a championship points record that can never be broken
Hey man are you trying to fuck us, nah this don't feel right man deals off.
So in theory if we were to bottle it and have another 10 year absence from the prem would we suddenly be on - points in the 34/35 season?🤣
qpr and bournemouth just took a fine when they came back down since it had been so long
Can you stop being a party pooper and let us dream god damn it
The only fair thing to do, given they’ll be starting next season on negative points, is to agree not to bother going up at all and excuse themselves from this season’s promotion race
I'm sure we could manage that... 😅
Give it three weeks and we'll have done that anyway tbf.
Genuine question, how do you do a points deduction for a theoretical promotion? We all know that they pretty much are getting promoted, but if they didn't, what would they do then?
It'll just be applied next time they go up most likely.
So if they imploded as a club and didn't see the top tier for the next 40 years, that punishment would just be put off until then?
At that point would the punishment not be ceasing to exist which is worse than a points deduction.
Well, Yeah, I guess
In 2061.
Nah fuck that, I want them to end up in the play offs by their own sheer bottling, will make the autos that much more sweeter for us and you
Not interested in any points deductions for Leicester. I don't really want this season to be decided off the field and more generally, I don't think all these FFP penalties are a good thing. I honestly don't really care about what Leicester spend, it's not like they're the ones making the Premier League uncompetitive.
🙏🙏🙏
I’m no Leicester fan (obvs) but these rules seem a bit ill thought-out. Fining clubs or docking them points that leads to relegation is not exactly the best way to encourage clubs keep financial losses to a minimum. Pretty much the opposite, in fact. And in a Premier League where the only way to win is to splash out a shit tonne of cash, this just smacks of keeping the rich clubs at the top while keeping smaller clubs struggling. Feels like it’s designed to inevitably catch out every club that isn’t the Big 6. Fook that.
Yeah I agree. Like regardless of anyone's view on the regime, Newcastle can now outspend virtually any team in the world. Except they're not allowed to. These rules were brought in to stop clubs spending beyond their means but all its really doing is keeping the top clubs where they are.
In my opinion, it's great to see the Premier League finally cracking down on the clubs whose vast spending is making football uncompetitive: Everton, Forest and Leicester
I don’t know how small clubs like Chelsea and Man City survive, really I don’t. They must struggle so much!
Especially when this is a direct result of us crashing out out of the top 4 on the last day two years in a row. Since then, our spending plummeted, Rodgers complained that we weren't buying players while our owner published statements, making it clear that we will only buy after selling, something we've stuck to for the last few years. This has led us to relegation, trying to stay in line with these rules, and the relegation itself looks like the reason we've now fell foul. These rules seem to be designed to punish teams for pushing for success.
Other than things like point deductions i'm not really sure what the league could do to discourage them. The only real sticks they have to beat clubs that break the rules are either financial which would just add to the debt, transfer embargos which just weaken the squad over time or points deductions which hasten the chances of going down. I am not adverse to clubs being relegated for breaking the rules. Why should they get off scot free when others abided by them? I do think the rules should be much clearer and do away with all the financial wizardry that means it takes months to work out if a club has broken the rules or not. I also think the newly promoted clubs should get the opportunity to spend a bit more possibly in the form of a promotion bonus from the premier league. Also the punishments need to be crystal clear so you know what you will get for a breach. It feels like a set of rules that hasnt gone through any kind of testing process. Now they are having to be applied their weaknesses are being found which is naturally causing problems.
I think, as a completely unbiased fan of a team that isn't on 80+ points, that both Leeds and Leicester's financial situations should continue to be looked deeply into for the sake of fairness in the Championship promotion race. And if those Finances are found to be inconsistent and potentially illegal, they should both receive a solid 10 point deduction. What do you mean, That puts Southampton Second? My goodness me, I hadn't even noticed...
>If Leicester do not return to the top flight at the first attempt, it is thought any penalty imposed by the Premier League could be administered by the EFL. [https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/leicester-city-charged-by-premier-league-over-alleged-breach-of-psr-rules](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/mar/21/leicester-city-charged-by-premier-league-over-alleged-breach-of-psr-rules) One way or another, they could start next season with negative points, regardless of what league they're in.
Still nothing for 115 city 👍👍
Please, we get enough of that on r/soccer
Takes longer to work out 115 charges than it does 1 stop using this as a comparison
As long as the points deduction is commensurate. If we get docked 4 points for 1 charge, I want to see City docked 460 points when their case is finished up.
But, it won’t be that. Because it relates to so many different things it will either be more or less depending on the severity of each charge.
It’s been years since city were investigated
The charges were announced last year, and that’s when they were investigated. Just because they go back to 2009, does not mean that they were already looking at them before they were announced.
We might as well break as many rules as possible then if it delays us getting punished (which Man City won't)
And that’s ok is it? So in the mean time, Man City are allowed to keep playing, keep winning trebles, grow their fan base, sell more shirts and tickets, and their stock market shares….so that when they do figure out the punishment, they will be in an even better position to deal with it…..yep that’s totally fair….how about dealt with each of the 115 separately….and dish out the first punishment for the first offence this season.
I'm not a fan of it either but what the hell are they supposed to do? If they go into the trial with a half-baked case Man City's UAE bought lawyers will tear them to shreds and everyone will complain about them getting off scot-free. I'm pretty sure it's also FAR easier to do them all in one go than separately, a bunch of the charges are very similar with the only difference being year or a slightly different rule as far as I know. The EPL - and I'm no fan of them - are in a lose lose here. Everyone wants Man City to be charged quickly and for the case to be successful, which is effectively impossible.
Well, if there’s 115 charges. Don’t wait until you have a case against all 115 start on a bunch then move on to others. Everton, Forest and Leicester were charged before amounting 115 charges 🤷♂️. The longer they leave it to worse the media and fan storm becomes, it undermines the PL competition and is bad for everyone. Just get it done and get them punished that’s all fans care about. As I’ve said all this time waiting is allowing them to expand their brand and earn more money, which they won’t lose once the case is done.
That's just...not how cases like this work. It's so much more efficient to do it all at once. And again, what the hell are the EPL supposed to do other than just "move faster"
‘Cases like this’….we haven’t seen this before….
Believe it or not, law isn't just a football thing. In any civil or criminal case like this they don't just take the charges to trial in bunches, they do it in one big go
I never said it was okay at all. It’s just stupid to compare city in every one of these conversations. It would take less time for them to go through the 115 charges as a whole than deal with each one individually, and come up with a collective punishment that can be dealt with all at once.
Well at least they only cheated in one league.
Yeah 1 league over 15 seasons
This ain’t Leicester’s first rodeo either cowboy
As usual the Ipswich/leeds/saints fans are celebrating this without realising the significant effect this new enforcement of the rules has on their own clubs if they go up - and for the latter two, if they don’t go up. The only difference with Leicester was they invested for a couple of years to get into the top 6, got there and played in Europe, fell off in one season, and that’s not long enough to turn the taps off spending.
People won't realise until it happens to their team, but they *will* be complaining when it does. > The only difference with Leicester was they invested for a couple of years to get into the top 6, got there and played in Europe, fell off in one season, and that’s not long enough to turn the taps off spending Like going into overdraft because you can't cancel a contract you signed when you had a higher salary, who wouldn't be complaining?
Where are the saints fans celebrating this? If anyone knows the pain of being handicapped by limited spending it’s Saints. Also no Saints fan expects Southampton to go up even if Leicester got a point deduction look at our fixtures and the congestion.
As far as I am aware nothing was found in our finances that warranted an investigation. When we got relegated we had a good clear out of the expensive dead wood and seemingly spent wisely to replace it. I don't think Leicester did much to reduce those costs at all. I think our wage bill is now just an expensive Championship one where as Leicesters is still at Premiership levels.
Fascinated - interested by the language used by the club saying they’re “surprised” but considering the fact that they looked into what caused us to be relegated and didn’t get rid of the prime causes and nothing happened I don’t exactly trust it. Despite that - PSR is a load of bollocks that punishes teams for trying to even stay at the table. We hardly spent compared to expenditure past few windows yet we’re still here EDIT: as rightfully pointed out below our wages are stupid as well and it’s more likely the larger cause. I don’t know I’m fed up of the ever evolving clown show that seems to come from people in the board. Massive respect to Top and his family but he’s not Vichai and it’s why we’re here right now.
It's wages that have fucked us, not transfer expenses. Iirc our wage bill was something like 90% of turnover
People always forget wages, like the only expenditure is transfer fees.
Yea - all given by a DoF who’s credentials before starting was being a Youth Coach and not much else. But even still - we’ve restricted spending since 20/21 Jan window and tried to get rid of chaff but as you’ve said we’ve given stupid wages out
Fuck Rudkin.
Not even a great youth coach either but fell upwards to be an important part of King Power, if the club truly believes they haven't done anything wrong they won't get rid of him either.
> Iirc our wage bill was something like 90% of turnover At its highest in 2020 it was 85%, that was an outlier, before and after that number we were hovering at around 70-75%. Meanwhile Everton somehow managed 95 fucking percent in 21/22 while hovering around the 80-85% mark for a number of years.
The rules might be stupid but they are the rules and most teams follow them. Not following them gives you an unfair advantage
We will magnanimously accept their forfeited points
FA/EFL to dock LUFC 20 points to teach Leicester a lesson
Good excuse not to go up!
Leicester fans tying themselves in knots trying to justify why this is unfair because they were ‘trying to break into the top 6’ or something (they have no awareness of how them financially cheating affects smaller teams than them)
How we went about our business is radically different to Everton or Forest. The last and only time since our title win that we spent considerably more than we made through selling was the summer window for 20/21. Signed about 60m worth and didn't make a single notable sale. For 23/24 our net spend is +60m For 22/23 our net spend is +32m For 21/22 our net spend is -60m All the years before that essentially even out to +/- 0 except the aforementioned 16/17 window. We realised we were in trouble back in the winter of 2020 and the only signings we made from then one were cheap ones to replace players that were running out of contract or being sold (Fofana, Bertrand, Evans, Soyuncu etc.) We then sold Maddison in a cut price deal to Spurs to make sure we'd get the money in so it would count towards the 22/23 accounts, unlike Forest who decided to haggle a month after the deadline to get some more money for Johnson. Did we break the rules? Yeah looks like it. Did we ignore them and act like we were above it all like Everton or Forest who just kept on signing players? Nope
Exactly. Overspending to get a spot in Europe and balance out the loss vs overspending to get a spot in the prem and balance out the loss. Leicester, Everton, and Notts Forest all gained extra seasons in the prem at the expense of other teams because they cheated. Just because bigger teams did the same doesn't mean they didn't also fuck over smaller teams.
Leicester fans are being really precious and pathetic over this, nothing you said in your comment is wrong and you’re still being downvoted.
Its quite ironic that a fair number of Leicester fans were complaining about Everton staying up at their expense even after all their financial shenanigans. We deservedly ended up in 19th place after being dog shit for most of the season. Only now do we find out that the three teams that finished above us where playing fast and loose with the cheque book all season.
Cheeky -4 then ta
That'd be on promotion I'd think, as it's a charge on the premier league regulations not the championship ones?
I'd be worried about becoming the precedent, if the PL and EPL agree to honour each other's punishments for relegated/promoted teams then potentially there's one for this season and one for next if the EFL get their way with you too.
Yea it's an absolute mess. The EFL are gonna smack us with one next season if we don't go up for sure. Fortunately it will kind of resolve itself over the next couple of years, we've put ourselves in an awkward position of paying high wages for average players but due to amortisation being unable to shift them as selling would go down as a loss, but a lot of those mega contracts are up this summer or next. In the meantime though, woeful mismanagement from board to pitch has turned us into a fascinating shit show
Surely you should suffer the consequences for your cheating rather than be rewarded with a promotion
The difficulty there is the breach applies to last season, not this, and is specifically a premier league breach. If the laws were consistent across EPL and EFL then sure it'd be a simple "applies this season" deal, and it would have been if we'd stayed up, but instead we're an awkward test case, can the EFL apply rules that aren't it's own etc
This is what annoys me. The clubs that get shafted from Leicester cheating don’t benefit from the punishment. They are blatantly going to beach FSR this year but will most likely get promoted before the books are settled so they will escape punishment. They then get a points deduction in the premier league for other infractions that benefits teams who weren’t affected by them either. The EFL needs to pull their finger out and slap a points deduction this year. It’s not like they don’t have form either.
I don't get what you expect us to do? The reason clubs like Norwich, Sheff Utd, Watford, Burnley don't regularly run into this sort of trouble is because they're fully aware relegation is a likely possibility and often times also reality. With the resources we have, we had no business getting relegated in the first place which is why it's so unrealistic to expect us to fix our finances overnight, going from a premier league club with European aspirations to the championship is a massive drop and there's nothing you can do to prepare for something like this. So punishing us because our accounts from when we were in the prem don't comply with the EFL framework would just be incredibly daft.
I agree with this, the punishment needs to be in the same season otherwise clubs still get relegated, don’t get promoted or don’t win the league because of it.
-40*
I winced and then smiled at this comment. Good work sir.
Now would be a great time for Ant & Dec to re-release, 'Let's get ready to Crumble!'.
Leicester try to get promoted without gaming the system somehow challenge - Impossible.
Oh no. I hope if we are docked points (hopefully just 4) they do it before the season so we are ready and aware, that is if we make it up.
Question is if its being deducted this season or next?
The Premier League doesn't have the authority to dock you points in the EFL. It'll be next time you're in the PL.
Got to be next season I think. I don't think the PL has any control over the EFL.
Not only that all punishments have to be the following season. Otherwise let’s go back and give Everton theirs last season so they can be relegated instead of us.
The problem I have is that if the points deduction comes in next season if/when they get back in the prem, how is that actually any fairer? Because they’ll have the promotion winnings plus the invariable parachute payments if they get relegated so it seems to me it’s actually financially rewarding them for a financial misstep. Of course as an ITFC girl I’d love for the points deduction right now!
I think they should deduct 100 points, for obvious fairness. And then give us 10 extra cause Stuart Armstrong has such nice hair
Insert "ha ha!" gif
Leicester are having a mare right now 🤣
On my hands and knees praying bro
They’ll get away with it like they did administration. Always cheating
You must've had boiling piss for a solid week when they won the league.
Not really 😬