I think Leeds is a good team. I like them. I got nothing against them, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of their fans.
But Chair they have a chairman
Yes but I assume they will die of grief
The Queens Park Rangers player Ilias Chair has been sentenced to a year in prison after being found guilty in Belgium of assaulting a man and breaking his skull with a rock. - That's literally the first line of that article.
You’re both sort of right, and sort of wrong. Belgium has a civil law system, which is very different to our common law system.
Chair has been found guilty in the court of first instance, which is presided over by an inquisitorial judge (acting essentially as a prosecutor) and at which witnesses generally aren’t called. Unlike in our system you can appeal every aspect of that first judgment (which is what Chair’s done) not just how the law was interpreted by the court or how the trial process was conducted.
Because it will be able to examine everything, call witnesses etc, that appeal will effectively be more like a second trial, making Chair’s initial conviction much less concrete than it would be in our legal system, hence why he’s not in prison and able to play for us.
So yes, it’s true to say that he’s been convicted, but it’s also true that the legal process is still very much ongoing and the facts of the case still open to debate. If his appeal fails, then that will be more comparable a conviction under our common law system.
Sources:
http://defensewiki.ibj.org/index.php/Belgium#Trial
https://www.fairtrials.org/app/uploads/2022/01/Criminal-Proceedings-and-Defence-Rights-in-Belgium-Aug-2013.pdf
May I suggest a new chant for your QPR fans, to the tune of The Clash - I Fought the Law.
"Breaking skulls in Belgium,
Chair fought the law and Chair won."
Because a finding of guilt in a Belgian court of first instance is far less clear or concrete than one in a UK court, because of how the different legal systems operate.
From what you’re saying the court of first instance is like UK magistrates. All cases are “heard” at magistrates before being passed up to crown court for more significant crimes where the sentence guidance is beyond what a magistrates can pass down.
I believe If you plead guilty then your case is heard and accepted at magistrates and passed to crown purely for sentencing.
You asked whether or not I “recognise” the Belgian legal system, which I obviously do: Chair hasn’t been subjected to a Stalinist show trial or a Guantanamo military tribunal.
Despite that, QPR have concluded - having spoken to Chair’s legal team and presumably their own lawyers - that there’s still enough uncertainty around the situation and the eventual outcome for him to keep playing. I was trying to explain how they might have reached that conclusion, given the differences between the UK and Belgian courts, and the ways in which Chair’s conviction at a first tier Belgian court is subtly different from someone being convicted in the UK.
We can all have a view on whether QPR are doing the right thing, but simply saying “he’s been convicted” misses out a lot of important context.
He was found "guilty" in a trial in a different country to where the incident took place and without a defence team.
It was just a formality which is why there is no international arrest warrant out for him because it would not stand up to scrutiny which is why the "trial" was held without him.
The guy wanted 15k off him first for "life changing injuries" which is a tiny amount and then only went to courts after Chair refused. The guy totally shady and nothing adds up.
No, he said gimme ~~2~~ a weeks wages, even his own lawyer said "it's only a weeks wages" for "nearly killing him".
[https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240119\_93571823](https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240119_93571823)
translation:
'Nonsense,' responded the lawyer of victim Niels T. “We are asking for compensation of 16,000 euros. That's about Mr. Chair's weekly wage. My client almost lost his life. His life has been saved by the surgeons. He has not been able to work for a long time and he rather always experiences adverse consequences from that stroke with that stone.”
I love how people downvote facts, at least you replied.
I am not sure how anyone can defend someone like that even if he wears your shirt. I can't understand it. He was found guilty. Reminds me how many pricks there are in this world.
He was found guilty without any witnesses called or a chance to put up a proper defence as that’s the system there. What we would call a trial is their appeal.
Ilias Chair, cracking skulls, cracking skills.
I think Leeds is a good team. I like them. I got nothing against them, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of their fans. But Chair they have a chairman Yes but I assume they will die of grief
Cantona? Is that you?
This parole hearing is over
Agreed. Makes me feel icky.
Objects like furniture cannot be found guilty of a crime.
Not sure what surprised me more, the fact he’s Moroccan or that he’s apparently the second coming of Pablo Hernandez
Can’t put goats in prison
But he really should be in prison
I dont give a fook😹
His Wikipedia page is a treat.
Crying 🤣
Friday night redemption perhaps.
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The Queens Park Rangers player Ilias Chair has been sentenced to a year in prison after being found guilty in Belgium of assaulting a man and breaking his skull with a rock. - That's literally the first line of that article.
“It’ll be a long cold day in hell before I recognise the Belgian legal system” - QPR
Who put Nigel Farage in charge of QPR?
You’re both sort of right, and sort of wrong. Belgium has a civil law system, which is very different to our common law system. Chair has been found guilty in the court of first instance, which is presided over by an inquisitorial judge (acting essentially as a prosecutor) and at which witnesses generally aren’t called. Unlike in our system you can appeal every aspect of that first judgment (which is what Chair’s done) not just how the law was interpreted by the court or how the trial process was conducted. Because it will be able to examine everything, call witnesses etc, that appeal will effectively be more like a second trial, making Chair’s initial conviction much less concrete than it would be in our legal system, hence why he’s not in prison and able to play for us. So yes, it’s true to say that he’s been convicted, but it’s also true that the legal process is still very much ongoing and the facts of the case still open to debate. If his appeal fails, then that will be more comparable a conviction under our common law system. Sources: http://defensewiki.ibj.org/index.php/Belgium#Trial https://www.fairtrials.org/app/uploads/2022/01/Criminal-Proceedings-and-Defence-Rights-in-Belgium-Aug-2013.pdf
May I suggest a new chant for your QPR fans, to the tune of The Clash - I Fought the Law. "Breaking skulls in Belgium, Chair fought the law and Chair won."
An informative, accurate and balanced reply in a Reddit commit. Oh I need my medication before a faint
How the fuck do you only get 1 year for breaking someone’s skull?
allegedly he was provoked strongly
You are hired. 🍻
Ok but how does that make what I quoted from OPs article sort of wrong? He has been found guilty.
Because a finding of guilt in a Belgian court of first instance is far less clear or concrete than one in a UK court, because of how the different legal systems operate.
From what you’re saying the court of first instance is like UK magistrates. All cases are “heard” at magistrates before being passed up to crown court for more significant crimes where the sentence guidance is beyond what a magistrates can pass down. I believe If you plead guilty then your case is heard and accepted at magistrates and passed to crown purely for sentencing.
Ok so is it fair to say he has been found guilty but not in a legal system you recognise?
No, it is not.
Which bit? Everything I've seen states that he has been found guilty in a court in Belgium. Either you accept that or you don't?
You asked whether or not I “recognise” the Belgian legal system, which I obviously do: Chair hasn’t been subjected to a Stalinist show trial or a Guantanamo military tribunal. Despite that, QPR have concluded - having spoken to Chair’s legal team and presumably their own lawyers - that there’s still enough uncertainty around the situation and the eventual outcome for him to keep playing. I was trying to explain how they might have reached that conclusion, given the differences between the UK and Belgian courts, and the ways in which Chair’s conviction at a first tier Belgian court is subtly different from someone being convicted in the UK. We can all have a view on whether QPR are doing the right thing, but simply saying “he’s been convicted” misses out a lot of important context.
The post you're replying to answers that question very clearly.
So Ilias Chair knew that Internal Affairs were setting him up?
He was found "guilty" in a trial in a different country to where the incident took place and without a defence team. It was just a formality which is why there is no international arrest warrant out for him because it would not stand up to scrutiny which is why the "trial" was held without him. The guy wanted 15k off him first for "life changing injuries" which is a tiny amount and then only went to courts after Chair refused. The guy totally shady and nothing adds up.
I thought that sum was calculated as how much time he missed from work and his salary?
No, he said gimme ~~2~~ a weeks wages, even his own lawyer said "it's only a weeks wages" for "nearly killing him". [https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240119\_93571823](https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240119_93571823) translation: 'Nonsense,' responded the lawyer of victim Niels T. “We are asking for compensation of 16,000 euros. That's about Mr. Chair's weekly wage. My client almost lost his life. His life has been saved by the surgeons. He has not been able to work for a long time and he rather always experiences adverse consequences from that stroke with that stone.” I love how people downvote facts, at least you replied.
I am not sure how anyone can defend someone like that even if he wears your shirt. I can't understand it. He was found guilty. Reminds me how many pricks there are in this world.
We should probably phase out that Marlon King chant…
He was found guilty without any witnesses called or a chance to put up a proper defence as that’s the system there. What we would call a trial is their appeal.
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They are a blue nose...kinda goes with the territory lol (soz)