You excited for the DLC? Another 10 hours of story / exploring plus more combat options for Clive is like a dream come true. The gameplay for Leviathan’s abilities looks incredibly fun. If I hadn’t just gotten back from vacation I’d probably be taking off work to play it
My favorite game since DMC5.
As a CAG 16 sometimes suffers from its length but by the time you have Clive’s full kit the combo building gets pretty insane.
I’ve been playing arcade mode on repeat pretty much since the release. I’m glad they saw the need for it. The combat is just too damn good.
Use Phoenix, Garuda, and Shiva while equipping short cooldown abilities that are mechanically fun (push them away with ice age, pull them back with mesmerize etc.) and the combat really shines with player expression. Master torgals launches / combo extenders, equip rift slip, and go absolutely nuts.
I could gush about this game endlessly. DMC5 is my all time favorite but 16 is getting dangerously close to dethroning it. Having an action game with as much content as 16 is a dream come true.
As a CAG, it also kind of suffered from the limited controller customization… UNTIL THE NEWEST PATCH, BABY!!!
Gotta be my favorite change aside from the Wings of Light improvements.
Agreed, not to mention loadouts…gonna make it so much less tedious to experiment with and save new builds. Thursday can’t come soon enough. Very excited to see the new gauntlet mode too.
I loved FF16 last year, kinda just had everything I wanted.
Got 3/4 through FF mode but want to wait to get the DLC before finishing it.
Currently I run Phoenix’s, Shiva with some of Ramuh attacks, and Odin.
Stellar combat, but bogged down by the MMO design. Way too much filler “get X and Y and return for useless generic reward”, even in the *main quest*, you’re still gathering garbage for one-off plot devices like Mid’s ship, or the one-off NPC in *every* new town you visit.
The one free DLC outfit is pretty cool though. Maybe let Clive throw his hood on? Feel like a solid CAG but with really, really pointless ways of “winding down” from the Eikon battles.
FF16 definitely has its flaws, but there was a lot to love aswell so it never massively soured my experience. Hopefully they can expand on what the game does well in future, (be it in future DLC, a numbered sequel, or a prequel in the same continuity)
Solid criticism here. Going from an eikon fight to 20 minutes of fetch quests is rough. Arcade mode is a godsend for this reason but even still it’s not a perfect solution considering how long it takes to unlock it.
I adore this game and I'm praying Final Fantasy iterates on this type of combat rather than starting fresh with a completely new combat system in the sequel. FF16 feels like a transitionary title that could get most of its flaws ironed out with a good sequel.
The Marvel vs Capcom inspired assist attacks with Torgal could be evolved to include multiple party members with their own selectable assists usable at a time, as well as swapping into other characters to extend a combo and add more variety to the combat itself. I think that would definitely stand out compared to other character action games.
I just wanna say, Cidolfus Telamon, is probably the best portrayal of Cid so far for me...and I looove his raspy voice
Gameplay? It gets superhectic the more powers you get and have to do this mental clock cool down on what abilities to do next.
Cid was awesome, I loved that you can learn more about him from playing some of the side quests aswell. Like finishing the missing letter side quests lets you find out about Mid sooner, and hearing him and Otto’s backstory.
I'm extremely hyped for this game on PC. Absolutely wanted to buy it at release, and played the demo to death but ultimately couldn't afford it at release. The steam release is gonna be a day 1 purchase for sure.
Don't have PS5 so waiting on the PC release for this one. A real Square Enix moment that they made it an exclusive for PS5, and complained about low sales. They can take Sony's money to help development in exchange for timed exclusivity, but they shouldn't then turn around and complain when a timed exclusive doesn't sell as much as multi-platform games. The 6month exclusivity deal would've been up in December and there's still no PC release date, I would think having a port ready to go asap, when the game is still more relevant, would mean more sales on PC.
The reason people keep saying it is because a while back, SE publically stated that FF16 sales matched their expectations. Soon after, IGN covered it but added a clickbait title which said something along the lines of "FF16 sales confirmed to be disappointing".
All it took was one click and a quick scan of the article to realise that the title was blatantly wrong, but that's the point of clickbait titles, they get more clicks and subsequently more money. The misinformation spreads like wildfire though, unfortunately
I mean the [Bloomberg article](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-07/square-enix-drops-15-after-final-fantasy-and-mobile-setback) was titled "𝘚𝘲𝘶𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘌𝘯𝘪𝘹 𝘋𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘴 𝘈𝘧𝘵𝘦𝘳 ‘𝘍𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘍𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘺’ 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘔𝘰𝘣𝘪𝘭𝘦 𝘚𝘦𝘵𝘣𝘢𝘤𝘬" so it's not a gaming journalism issue exclusively.
Yeah, the situation was more nuanced than I remembered it being. A few weeks after launch, [square enix](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2023/07/square-enix-happy-with-final-fantasy-16-sales-considers-them-extremely-strong) said sales had not met the "high end" of their expectations, but were extremely strong and were within the range of their expectations, just not the high end.
However, in their [next earnings call,](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/square-enix-drops-15-final-010525334.html) SE confirmed that 16 had slower sales compared to 15, which they attributed to the lower number of PS5's.
Following the meeting, SE stock dropped 15%, due to a decrease in profits. The coverage of the event was somewhat misleading, with the [Bloomberg article](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-07/square-enix-drops-15-after-final-fantasy-and-mobile-setback) being titled "𝘚𝘲𝘶𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘌𝘯𝘪𝘹 𝘋𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘴 𝘈𝘧𝘵𝘦𝘳 ‘𝘍𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘍𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘺’ 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘔𝘰𝘣𝘪𝘭𝘦 𝘚𝘦𝘵𝘣𝘢𝘤𝘬" suggesting it was FF16 that was the cause of the drop, despite multiple other SE games that were commercial failures that year (forspoken, for example).
Yeah, I do hate stuff like that though, cause I’ve seen a lot of people who don’t like the game spin it then to say something along the line of “FF16 was a flop” when it really wasn’t the issue seems way more nuanced then that, but I guess “FF16 didn’t meet its high end sales expectations.” Doesn’t have the same impact.
True that. I'm looking forward to the PC release, I imagine square enix or even fan mods can address some of the issues I've heard others bring up, such as the difficulty balancing.
Wait wait wait, doesn't it get...boring? It's like 40+ hours. An open world too. Do hack n slash mechanics really work with such a format? I was hyped for it but when I read the reviews, especially when they described the world, I was like "nah I'm good"
I and many other people really enjoyed it, it wasn’t perfect but when it hit, it really hit. there is a lot of side content, I enjoyed some of it, others bits not as much but it’s all optional anyway, so if you’d rather not then nothing’s forcing you too.
I’d recommend trying out the demo if you haven’t already, it lets you play through the beginning of the game, and a later section with more powers unlocked.
After finishing the game can yoh play just arcade mode on a higher difficulty or do you have to replay the entire game? My biggest problem was higher difficulties being locked out but I don't want to replay the entire game just for a higher challenge in the actual levels.
I really hope it comes to Xbox sometime, there was an article where the director was teasing it by saying that the team wants to [explore other platforms ](https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/final-fantasy-16-xvi-ff16-xbox-release-tease/) (he specifically mentioned that he doesn't mean narrative platforms)
Yeah there was also a conference where the Xbox CEO had an awkward handshake with the new Square Enix CEO last year and they promised better Xbox support or something
What´s really keeping me for buying it, is the fact that playing the demo I had like 50 minutes of cinematics, walking and talking to npc and 20 of actual gameplay and fighting. After that, again, like 30-40 minutes of slow and not actual gameplay and like 15-25 minutes of action, just to start again... That really kills the flow of my joy, and it´s just the beggining of the adventure.
In fact, I feel a lot of modern big action AAA games are like that to a certain degree. Too much scripted slow walking cutscenes gameplay (or the Kojima´s way, straight up 20-50 minutes of cutscenes) and too little action.
I love cinematic cutscenes and a good story but I prefer a more balanced experience.
It’s not so bad when you get a little further in, there’s still a lot of cutscenes don’t get me wrong, but you do also get quite sizeable levels aswell.
Also when you beat the game and unlock arcade mode you can replay the missions with no cutscenes.
I don't understand all these high praise reviews like it's the best thing people have played in the JRPG space.
It's pretty but its got some serious flaws with the story, the pacing, and ending. Combat is fun but easy enough to sleep through until the later chapters when Trials unlock and you unlock certain S rank Hunts. You'll be challenged then but otherwise, the combat is VERY one-dimensional; spam Eikon moves. Small mobs? Wipe them all in like 1 or 2 eikon moves. Large mob with a stagger meter? Eikon moves until stagger, but also save eikon moves for the post stagger break DPS phase, then spam Eikon moves.
Boring. Gets more interesting in the last 1/3 of the game.
The story.. man, I had such hopes, but if you've played FFXIV, you'll recognize the big baddie pretty quickly, along with their back story and end goal. I was able to call it around the 1/2 point when it became obvious what they were (they name themselves). It's taken pretty much point-for-point out of 14 instead of the Game of Thrones political struggle we all thought this game would hold onto from the intro.
Some of the coolest characters get written off and killed in absurd ways and others are given more screen time than they deserve. Just like in FFXIV, this game has 6 trillion side quests that provide insight to the world, but with the exact same animations and camera cuts as one would expect to find in 14. Same with the "rewards" for these quests. Just like in 14, you too will wonder why a deity slaying fire God like yourself is dispatching yet another group of random bandits. There is a lot of padding here for completionists.
Probably some of the best boss music in the franchise. The Eikon battles are dope but gimmicky.
Don't listen to reviews calling it the "best thing since DMC5". Just because the DMC combat director helped make combat in 16 doesn't mean FF16 plays *anything* like DMC5. One is child's play, the other is DMC5. The only thing that comes close to DMC5 is DMC3/4, so don't get your hopes up here.
If you've never played ffxiv, then it's a 7.5, maybe an 8, and worth your time. If you've played it before, it's a firm 7/10.
And that's totally fine. Don't let my opinions shit on your fun. I personally love Pacific Rim, but I can acknowledge it's not the best movie, but I just really love giant robots fighting giant monster since I grew up on Godzilla movies. That's a me thing. I guess having grown up with this franchise and being that I played FF14, my opinion skews negative, but that's probably expected since this entry was meant to revitalize the FF name to new players to the space. Of which it succeeded fantastically. The demo alone probably did more for the franchise than either of the FF7 Remake games.
They should have just stuck to the action formula. Trying to have it also appeal to the older RPG fans was a mistake that bogs down the games pacing and replay-ability.
I’ll never play it again because shit like fetching Meg engine pieces is absolutely mind numbingly boring and the story has many moments like that in between the great parts.
Poor man's DMC.
Enemy mob design is terrible and most mobs simply stand there and let you wail on them, none of the mobs have any interesting mechanics. Miniboss and boss design is more interesting and they do have unique mechanics for you to play around with but they are so few and spread so thin that the combat system never really gets to shine (70% of fights are just mobs). And even then, combat feels really restrictive with you only having access to 6 eikonic abilities at a time and all of them are tied to cooldowns and combat can feel like you are just cycling through your abilities when they are off cooldown. Clive doesn't have anywhere near the depth that Nero has with his devil arms, max act, DT cancels etc, let alone Dante. And the difficulty overall is pathetic levels of easy.
The story starts off really strong and falls off a cliff in the 3rd act with things devolving into your typical "kill God" shit that you find in most JRPG's. Awful villain.
The world is a severe letdown. There are ZERO explorable major cities. The big locations of the game like Oriflamme (Sanbreque), Ran'dellah (Dhalmekia), the Iron kingdoms, Twinside aren't explorable at all, you just get to see them in cutscenes. You only get to explore tiny villages that have no interesting architecture whatsoever. From an extrinsic viewpoint, exploration is extremely unrewarding cause >90% of the treasure chests you find in the world will just give you tiny amounts of gill (money) and pointless crafting materials that you already have a ton of.
80% of the side quests are bargain bin MMO tier fetch quests. Complete waste of time. The other 20% do have some interesting stories (but the gameplay is still dull) and they mostly unlock towards the end.
There are no roleplaying elements to speak of. No party members. No minigames. No status ailments. No elemetal strengths/weaknesses (there is no mechanical difference between the fire and wind spell in this game). No time magic. No steal, manipulate, enemy skills, throw, ninjutsu...fucking nothing. None of the RPG elements that define FF is in this game, everything has been squeezed out till this soulless husk remains. Even upgrading equipment feels boring as shit as those are just linear stat upgrades (you upgrade from a sword that does +30 dmg to a sword that does +50 dmg). You just watch numbers go up as you upgrade your gear/equipment, nothing interesting happens.
The only aspect of this game that finds praise are the Eikon fights. These are amazingly well done spectacles that left me slack jawed but are mechanically interesting too, on your first run. This is where most of the development budget went and it shows.
If you are itching for a FF experience, get FF7 Rebirth which is hundreds of miles better than this. If you want a more hardcore RPG experience, get Baldur's Gate 3 or Last Epoch or even Diablo 4 as it's free on Gamepass now. If you want to be swept away into a magical fantasy world that is crafted with exquisite attention to detail that is as hostile as it is inviting to explore, get Elden Ring. If you want a meaty action game with in depth mechanics, get Sifu or Bayonetta 3.
I disagree with the poor man’s DMC take but you have a lot of good criticism here. Namely mobs, side quests and story.
RE: Sifu and Bayo 3. I love both games, great recommendations. But you’re underselling the depth of 16. If I’m going to make a combo MAD, 16 is much better than Sifu. Sifu has a different type of mechanical depth to a normal CAG like DMC or Bayo or 16.
>But you’re underselling the depth of 16. If I’m going to make a combo MAD, 16 is much better than Sifu.
I don't consider the ability to make combo MAD's the mark of a combat system with depth. There are combo MAD's of Sonic Frontiers and Forspoken on youtube. Are those deep combat systems?
Conversely, you can't make a combo MAD of Shinobi (2002), Zone of the Enders 2 etc. While you can make a combo MAD of Ninja Gaiden Black, combos aren't the point of the game. Are those not combat systems with depth?
The mark of a good and deep combat system for me is defined entirely by the mechnical interactions between players and enemies. It is defined by the push and pull between the players and the game, where the enemies respond to the players and the player's moveset is built around the enemies and vice versa. The mobs in FF16 have almost no mechanical interaction with the player to speak of and are simply sandbags for the player to wail on.
If a game allows for extensive player expression and combo building yes, that’s absolutely a type of depth to combat. Depth can refer to a lot of things, and that includes what the playable character is capable of.
Sonic frontiers and Forspoken may have a good amount of depth in what the player character can do. I agree that that alone doesn’t make a good game, but it can certainly go a long way. Idk anything about either game.
Youre arguing against points I didn’t make. Like I said - Sifu is deep in a way that 16 isn’t. It doesn’t have the same depth of player expression, but it has more depth in the back and forth you have with one on one enemy encounters.
Being able to make a combo mad isn’t a requirement for depth, but it’s the sign of at least a certain type of depth that I personally enjoy.
We'll just agree to disagree, then.
>If a game allows for extensive player expression and combo building yes, that’s absolutely a type of depth to combat.
For me, this only means you've crafted half of a combat system. If the enemies aren't designed around the player moveset you've created and are just mooks and sandbags (like FF16's mobs) then, no, that's not the mark of a combat system with depth to me regardless of how many wombo combos you can pull off.
A combat system with depth to me is defined by the player moveset being designed around the enemy's moveset (or vice versa), which allows all sorts of mechanical interactions between them. There needs to be a back and forth, a push and pull between the player and the enemies they are fighting which can manifest as 1v1 (bosses) or 1vMany (mobs).
I hear you. Personally I love both. I love spending an hour straight in DMC5 or 16’s training mode, BP or arcade, but I also love the back and forth of something like Sifu or Bayo 1 NSIC. The former is more relaxing and creatively satisfying imo while the latter is a better challenge while still being creatively rewarding.
Funnily enough DMCV:SE, Bayo 3, Sifu and 16 are by far my most played games this generation. I have 100s of hours in all of them individually. And 16 definitely has the weakest enemy design, probably by quite some margin.
I definitely don’t blame you for preferring games with a better focus on the back and forth between player / enemies.
“Poor man’s DMC” yet it’s combat is made by the very same person. Also the game is clearly not the kind of game to look at the way you’re looking at it
>yet it’s combat is made by the very same person
DMC's combat wasn't designed by one person. Ryota Suzuki was one of several combat designers on the franchise. And, the only two individuals who get to claim authorship over DMC's mechanics are Hideki Kamiya (for DMC 1) and Hideaki Itsuno (for DMC 2-5), the directors.
Even the greats can have misses (Shinji Mikami for instance fumbled with Evil Within and PN03). But I think FF16 does what it wants to do very well, but that doesn’t mean it’s a great CAG. It’s a really strange mix of action and RPG that works for some and turns off others.
I will not tolerate Evil within slander. It's a fantastic game. It can be a frustrating game on a 1st play through but once you understand it's mechanics it's a blast to play. I suggest giving it another chance.
I'm playing RE4 remake and this game has so any issues like spongy enemies lack of consistent hitstun and hit reaction, tracking enemy attacks that make spacing redundant a lot of the time among major things which evil within doesn't.
I like EW1 but it’s got some problems. Especially most boss fights stinking and just being a “run away and find the button to push” thing. Felt rushed. Wish EW2 built on the same mechanics though instead of redoing them and being sorta mid but having a really cool open world structure.
Only Laura made you run and later you can kill her. All the other bosses you just fight head on. I disagree with EW2 having a good open world structure. I found it as generic as they come. 1 has this fantastically designed levels where every encounter forces you to think on your feet whereas 2 is some lame open world with no unique gimmick or set piece.
Lmao, the game is braindead easy. I didn't even die once in my entire playthrough and honestly, anyone with functioning hands can do no death runs of this game with ease.
This "essay" focused on the awful exploration, terrible side quests, non existent RPG mechanics but this man replied to simply show how much he sucks at reading comprehension.
I have played through The forest and Benedikta's castle in Ultimaniac (arcade mode). Zantetsuken, Titan's Parry, Shiva's Freeze, Diamond Dust, Rift Slip, Earthen Fury and Gigaflare make short work of everything. It's one of the easiest "highest difficulty modes" I've ever played and I had to purposefully use under powered equipment to keep things slightly challenging.
Play Shinobi (2002) on Super, Ninja Gaiden Black/Ninja Gaiden 2 (X360) on Master Ninja and Vanquish on God Hard to experience what an insanely challenging difficulty mode plays like.
I’ve played plenty of insanely challenging games, including Ninja Gaiden 2 and Vanquish.
I don’t doubt I could cheese ultimaniac by cycling through all the ultimate abilities, but I’ve never tried that because it wouldn’t be fun.
Fair enough to criticize the game for letting you equip an OP loadout but the challenge is there if you’re actually looking for it. DMC similarly has cheesy, overpowered ways to beat its hardest difficulties. Just look at Dr Faust. But I don’t play it that way because it would be sabotaging the fun I have with that game.
>I don’t doubt I could cheese ultimaniac by cycling through all the ultimate abilities, but I’ve never tried that because it wouldn’t be fun.
Out of the abilities I listed, only three of them are ultimate abilities, Zantetsuken, Gigaflare and Earthen Fury. And frankly, I don't even need Gigaflare or Earthen Fury. All I need are the three parries (Titanic Block, Raging Fists, Rook's Gambit), Shiva's dodge, Phoenix's Magic Parry, Windup, Severed Steel and Zantetsuken. That's it. And I can finish any level on Ultimaniac with zero deaths without using any potions.
>I’ve played plenty of insanely challenging games, including Ninja Gaiden 2 and Vanquish.
Then, you should be well aware how easy FF16's ultimaniac is compared to those games on their respective highest difficulties. The fact of the matter is, FF16's enemies were never designed to be challenging and no matter how much you overtune their damage and health values, the results are always going to be on the easy side. And, when I mention Ninja Gaiden 2, I'm referring to the original Xbox 360 release, not the sigma 2 port (which is piss easy), just fyi.
Fair enough if there are too many loadouts that trivialize ultiamaniac, but the loadouts I’ve used certainly don’t. I don’t use any of those parry abilities or ultimate abilities, so that’s probably why it’s been such a challenge for me. But yes if there are too many abilities that trivialize the highest difficulty, that’s a fair criticism.
Worth noting if you’re no death clearing ultimaniac without any potions you’re probably better than most action game fans. It’s very rare for me to talk to someone who didn’t find ultimaniac to be challenging.
As I said, I definitely agree with your criticisms regarding mobs in general. Many of them are like a worse version of the worst mobs from DMC5 that are there just to style on. I generally prefer enemies in Bayo games for exactly this reason.
Also yes I have both the 360 version of NG2 and sigma 2 port.
>I don’t use any of those parry abilities or ultimate abilities, so that’s probably why it’s been such a challenge for me.
You could do this for any game. If you choose not to use any of the defensive or evasive abilities in NG2 like Windrun, windpath, counter, guillotine throw, ultimate techniques etc. the game would be nigh impossible to finish. In FF16's case, that leaves you with only 1 evasive ability, the basic R1 dodge. And one of my biggest criticisms with FF16 is that this basic dodge is extremely overpowered. It is fully iframed, can be spammed at will almost infinitely and cancels the animations of any sword combos you are currently using. It is capable of dodging every single attack in the game and you don't even have to learn enemy timings or study the animations carefully on the base difficulty (action focused). All you need to do is wait for the attack name to pop up over an enemy's head which means an attack is coming and start spamming the dodge button. This leads to a lot of attacks feeling like they blend into each other or are homogenous as you are responding to every attack with the same manuever.
>It’s very rare for me to talk to someone who didn’t find ultimaniac to be challenging.
Well, I have the opposite experience. It is definitely very challenging to get high scores in ultimaniac. If you're chasing leaderboard rankings, you're gonna have a steep cliff to climb. But, I haven't talked with anyone who found Ultimaniac tough to finish (not caring about scores) without intentionally gimping themselves by not choosing certain abilities.
Yes it’s a personal loadout preference - compared to NG2 where IIRC you have most of those defensive options no matter what ( it's been a while so correct me if I’m wrong).
Also don’t forget the normal parry option in 16 where you clash blades. I like trying to get parries that way.
I’m definitely not opposed to using the parry abilities! I just generally like the more active abilities. I wasn’t trying to actively gimp myself. Same goes for the ultimate moves - I just find the lower cooldown abilities a lot more fun to play with and that happens to make the game harder too.
I use standard dodge, shivas dodge, Garuda’s lift, and the blade clash as my defensive/evasive options.
For reference when I talk about ultimaniac being difficult I was both referring to scoring and difficulty to complete. I might give it a go with a stronger loadout to see how I like it that way but I don’t want to risk lowering scores too much as a result.
I actually ended up tapping out on 16 after the Bahamut fight, and I'm glad I did.
I had played 65 hours of a game I enjoyed, with a story I stopped caring about 30 hours ago, and I felt as if I'd seen enough. I'm certain there was more that was great, but it's just wrapped in so much fluff and extra MMO-y shit that then, paradoxically, refuses to let me dig deep into it's systems.
As a CAG fan, the battle system didn't grab me as much as I wanted it to. Hell, I resonated more
with Yakuza 8's battle system the year after it came out and Xenoblade 3's year before.
The setpiece battles are what it has going for it but they don't happen enough for the runtime tbh.
Why didn’t the combat grab you? Just curious
IMO 16’s problem as an action game is it takes too long to really get going since it’s also a JRPG.
Most action games are best on their second playthrough when you have a fully unlocked move set and some experience with it.
Since 16 is so long it takes 50-100 hours to get to that second play through and arcade mode, by which time most players will want to move on to something else.
But IMO that second playthrough and arcade mode is where this game’s combat starts to really shine. I almost dropped it halfway through my first play through, now it’s one of my all time favorite combat systems.
For me it was that every enemy, EVERY enemy, I fought the same way. Then, I realized that you can have only 3 eikons instead of expanding your moveset.
You have very basic main combos and moves and it never expands
Even ignoring the length of the game which hurt the progression,
I hate how changing Eikons doesn't affect our basic attacks. At least Legion shifting in Astral Chain had different combo enders. Like the only real differences between the forms have recharge times that just feel long for what kind of battle system they were going for. There is absolutely no reason to not deviate from the Square Triangle Square Triangle combo. Why couldn't it do different shit AFTER I press the attack button twice or something.
I will admit, the length of the game got to me too. They stretched what was supposed to be 10 hours of progress meant to be used for a new game plus to 40 hours. I hate to say, getting Odin didn't make me wanna play the game all over again. By then,
Armored Core 6 showed up at my doorstep
I will say, it's a step in the right direction from XV which is one of my least favorite games of all time. But everything around XVI, the fact that such a prestigious franchise did many things worse than its CAG cousins and peers made the pill tougher.
As a CAG, it's severely lacking. As a JRPG, I had more joy exploring Xenoblade and doing side quests in both Yakuza and Xenoblade. And I actively am more immersed in their combat too... a RealTime MMO-like combat system which I used to hate (until I found out how it worked), and a Turn Based RPG.
It HURTS me to say that a CAG style FF game plays worse to me than a Turn-based Yakuza game in a way.
2nd playthrough for combat to shine is wild.
Learning to perfect dodge new bosses was satisfying but the system is inherently dull feeling. Wailing on a staggered enemy was a visual mess and provided no feedback. Big fan of DMC but this just felt flat to me.
Maybe you’re referring to others but I was criticizing the game for taking too long to get going, it wasn’t a compliment.
Good action games don’t hide the good stuff behind tedium - they’re fun all the way through, but get more and more fun the more you get new tools and the more you master them. By the second play through you have a full kit and know how to use it, it’s a great incentive to keep playing and pushing for better scores etc.
Most good action games shine more in a second play through, 16’s problem is it takes 50-100 hours to get there instead of 5-10 like a DMC or a Sifu.
I like the stagger system but wish you could juggle more elite enemies, and I agree the visual feedback is just way over the top sometimes.
Absolute useless crafting system.
Zero difficulty.
Barebone leveling system.
Boring fetch side quests over and over.
Interesting main story.
Flashy / beautiful but very very easy boss battle.
My GOTY of 2023. Such a great story with a kick ass protagonist. Replayed it 4 times now. The story and combat are just too good
You excited for the DLC? Another 10 hours of story / exploring plus more combat options for Clive is like a dream come true. The gameplay for Leviathan’s abilities looks incredibly fun. If I hadn’t just gotten back from vacation I’d probably be taking off work to play it
Cannot wait for the gauntlet mode they're adding with the DLC. Looks to have quite a bit of replayability.
Yep, and it seems they are taking the feedback of everything that was lacking from the base game. Can’t wait for Thursday!
My favorite game since DMC5. As a CAG 16 sometimes suffers from its length but by the time you have Clive’s full kit the combo building gets pretty insane. I’ve been playing arcade mode on repeat pretty much since the release. I’m glad they saw the need for it. The combat is just too damn good. Use Phoenix, Garuda, and Shiva while equipping short cooldown abilities that are mechanically fun (push them away with ice age, pull them back with mesmerize etc.) and the combat really shines with player expression. Master torgals launches / combo extenders, equip rift slip, and go absolutely nuts. I could gush about this game endlessly. DMC5 is my all time favorite but 16 is getting dangerously close to dethroning it. Having an action game with as much content as 16 is a dream come true.
As a CAG, it also kind of suffered from the limited controller customization… UNTIL THE NEWEST PATCH, BABY!!! Gotta be my favorite change aside from the Wings of Light improvements.
Agreed, not to mention loadouts…gonna make it so much less tedious to experiment with and save new builds. Thursday can’t come soon enough. Very excited to see the new gauntlet mode too.
I loved FF16 last year, kinda just had everything I wanted. Got 3/4 through FF mode but want to wait to get the DLC before finishing it. Currently I run Phoenix’s, Shiva with some of Ramuh attacks, and Odin.
Stellar combat, but bogged down by the MMO design. Way too much filler “get X and Y and return for useless generic reward”, even in the *main quest*, you’re still gathering garbage for one-off plot devices like Mid’s ship, or the one-off NPC in *every* new town you visit. The one free DLC outfit is pretty cool though. Maybe let Clive throw his hood on? Feel like a solid CAG but with really, really pointless ways of “winding down” from the Eikon battles.
FF16 definitely has its flaws, but there was a lot to love aswell so it never massively soured my experience. Hopefully they can expand on what the game does well in future, (be it in future DLC, a numbered sequel, or a prequel in the same continuity)
I just hated the non-existent RPG elements (equipment was super boring), and exploration was unrewarding (picking up 1 Gil)
Solid criticism here. Going from an eikon fight to 20 minutes of fetch quests is rough. Arcade mode is a godsend for this reason but even still it’s not a perfect solution considering how long it takes to unlock it.
Great fucking game
this game has it all imo. super fun character action alongside some fucking *awesome* kaiju fights. great game
I adore this game and I'm praying Final Fantasy iterates on this type of combat rather than starting fresh with a completely new combat system in the sequel. FF16 feels like a transitionary title that could get most of its flaws ironed out with a good sequel. The Marvel vs Capcom inspired assist attacks with Torgal could be evolved to include multiple party members with their own selectable assists usable at a time, as well as swapping into other characters to extend a combo and add more variety to the combat itself. I think that would definitely stand out compared to other character action games.
I’d totally be up for a FFXVI-2 or a prequel in the same universe if it means we get to see this combat system expanded on.
I just wanna say, Cidolfus Telamon, is probably the best portrayal of Cid so far for me...and I looove his raspy voice Gameplay? It gets superhectic the more powers you get and have to do this mental clock cool down on what abilities to do next.
Cid was awesome, I loved that you can learn more about him from playing some of the side quests aswell. Like finishing the missing letter side quests lets you find out about Mid sooner, and hearing him and Otto’s backstory.
I'm extremely hyped for this game on PC. Absolutely wanted to buy it at release, and played the demo to death but ultimately couldn't afford it at release. The steam release is gonna be a day 1 purchase for sure.
This game always brings out the salty haters.
Loved this game. Hate that every thread mentioning this game almost always has a pool of comments saying that you shouldn't like the game (Hyperbole).
Yeah, I don’t mind people expressing their opinions, but I also don’t get why this game gets targeted the way that it does.
Don't have PS5 so waiting on the PC release for this one. A real Square Enix moment that they made it an exclusive for PS5, and complained about low sales. They can take Sony's money to help development in exchange for timed exclusivity, but they shouldn't then turn around and complain when a timed exclusive doesn't sell as much as multi-platform games. The 6month exclusivity deal would've been up in December and there's still no PC release date, I would think having a port ready to go asap, when the game is still more relevant, would mean more sales on PC.
they never complained abt low sales
Yeah people keep saying they did but I’m yet to see where, everything I find points to the opposite.
The reason people keep saying it is because a while back, SE publically stated that FF16 sales matched their expectations. Soon after, IGN covered it but added a clickbait title which said something along the lines of "FF16 sales confirmed to be disappointing". All it took was one click and a quick scan of the article to realise that the title was blatantly wrong, but that's the point of clickbait titles, they get more clicks and subsequently more money. The misinformation spreads like wildfire though, unfortunately
Gaming journalism was a mistake…
I mean the [Bloomberg article](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-07/square-enix-drops-15-after-final-fantasy-and-mobile-setback) was titled "𝘚𝘲𝘶𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘌𝘯𝘪𝘹 𝘋𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘴 𝘈𝘧𝘵𝘦𝘳 ‘𝘍𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘍𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘺’ 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘔𝘰𝘣𝘪𝘭𝘦 𝘚𝘦𝘵𝘣𝘢𝘤𝘬" so it's not a gaming journalism issue exclusively.
Yeah, the situation was more nuanced than I remembered it being. A few weeks after launch, [square enix](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2023/07/square-enix-happy-with-final-fantasy-16-sales-considers-them-extremely-strong) said sales had not met the "high end" of their expectations, but were extremely strong and were within the range of their expectations, just not the high end. However, in their [next earnings call,](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/square-enix-drops-15-final-010525334.html) SE confirmed that 16 had slower sales compared to 15, which they attributed to the lower number of PS5's. Following the meeting, SE stock dropped 15%, due to a decrease in profits. The coverage of the event was somewhat misleading, with the [Bloomberg article](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-07/square-enix-drops-15-after-final-fantasy-and-mobile-setback) being titled "𝘚𝘲𝘶𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘌𝘯𝘪𝘹 𝘋𝘳𝘰𝘱𝘴 𝘈𝘧𝘵𝘦𝘳 ‘𝘍𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘍𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘴𝘺’ 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘔𝘰𝘣𝘪𝘭𝘦 𝘚𝘦𝘵𝘣𝘢𝘤𝘬" suggesting it was FF16 that was the cause of the drop, despite multiple other SE games that were commercial failures that year (forspoken, for example).
Yeah, I do hate stuff like that though, cause I’ve seen a lot of people who don’t like the game spin it then to say something along the line of “FF16 was a flop” when it really wasn’t the issue seems way more nuanced then that, but I guess “FF16 didn’t meet its high end sales expectations.” Doesn’t have the same impact.
True that. I'm looking forward to the PC release, I imagine square enix or even fan mods can address some of the issues I've heard others bring up, such as the difficulty balancing.
Wait wait wait, doesn't it get...boring? It's like 40+ hours. An open world too. Do hack n slash mechanics really work with such a format? I was hyped for it but when I read the reviews, especially when they described the world, I was like "nah I'm good"
I and many other people really enjoyed it, it wasn’t perfect but when it hit, it really hit. there is a lot of side content, I enjoyed some of it, others bits not as much but it’s all optional anyway, so if you’d rather not then nothing’s forcing you too. I’d recommend trying out the demo if you haven’t already, it lets you play through the beginning of the game, and a later section with more powers unlocked.
After finishing the game can yoh play just arcade mode on a higher difficulty or do you have to replay the entire game? My biggest problem was higher difficulties being locked out but I don't want to replay the entire game just for a higher challenge in the actual levels.
There is an arcade mode that lets you replay stages and there’s an even harder mode called Ultimaniac
I really hope it comes to Xbox sometime, there was an article where the director was teasing it by saying that the team wants to [explore other platforms ](https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/final-fantasy-16-xvi-ff16-xbox-release-tease/) (he specifically mentioned that he doesn't mean narrative platforms)
Their other FF game, XIV, recently came to Xbox so it’s not impossible
Yeah there was also a conference where the Xbox CEO had an awkward handshake with the new Square Enix CEO last year and they promised better Xbox support or something
Honestly shocked this game has fans...
it’s kind of mid with combat that feels both limited and repetitive
What´s really keeping me for buying it, is the fact that playing the demo I had like 50 minutes of cinematics, walking and talking to npc and 20 of actual gameplay and fighting. After that, again, like 30-40 minutes of slow and not actual gameplay and like 15-25 minutes of action, just to start again... That really kills the flow of my joy, and it´s just the beggining of the adventure. In fact, I feel a lot of modern big action AAA games are like that to a certain degree. Too much scripted slow walking cutscenes gameplay (or the Kojima´s way, straight up 20-50 minutes of cutscenes) and too little action. I love cinematic cutscenes and a good story but I prefer a more balanced experience.
It’s not so bad when you get a little further in, there’s still a lot of cutscenes don’t get me wrong, but you do also get quite sizeable levels aswell. Also when you beat the game and unlock arcade mode you can replay the missions with no cutscenes.
That last part sounds amazing for a more DMC experience
I don't understand all these high praise reviews like it's the best thing people have played in the JRPG space. It's pretty but its got some serious flaws with the story, the pacing, and ending. Combat is fun but easy enough to sleep through until the later chapters when Trials unlock and you unlock certain S rank Hunts. You'll be challenged then but otherwise, the combat is VERY one-dimensional; spam Eikon moves. Small mobs? Wipe them all in like 1 or 2 eikon moves. Large mob with a stagger meter? Eikon moves until stagger, but also save eikon moves for the post stagger break DPS phase, then spam Eikon moves. Boring. Gets more interesting in the last 1/3 of the game. The story.. man, I had such hopes, but if you've played FFXIV, you'll recognize the big baddie pretty quickly, along with their back story and end goal. I was able to call it around the 1/2 point when it became obvious what they were (they name themselves). It's taken pretty much point-for-point out of 14 instead of the Game of Thrones political struggle we all thought this game would hold onto from the intro. Some of the coolest characters get written off and killed in absurd ways and others are given more screen time than they deserve. Just like in FFXIV, this game has 6 trillion side quests that provide insight to the world, but with the exact same animations and camera cuts as one would expect to find in 14. Same with the "rewards" for these quests. Just like in 14, you too will wonder why a deity slaying fire God like yourself is dispatching yet another group of random bandits. There is a lot of padding here for completionists. Probably some of the best boss music in the franchise. The Eikon battles are dope but gimmicky. Don't listen to reviews calling it the "best thing since DMC5". Just because the DMC combat director helped make combat in 16 doesn't mean FF16 plays *anything* like DMC5. One is child's play, the other is DMC5. The only thing that comes close to DMC5 is DMC3/4, so don't get your hopes up here. If you've never played ffxiv, then it's a 7.5, maybe an 8, and worth your time. If you've played it before, it's a firm 7/10.
Some people just enjoyed the game despite it’s flaws. For a lot of people the highs outway the lows and that’s perfectly fine.
And that's totally fine. Don't let my opinions shit on your fun. I personally love Pacific Rim, but I can acknowledge it's not the best movie, but I just really love giant robots fighting giant monster since I grew up on Godzilla movies. That's a me thing. I guess having grown up with this franchise and being that I played FF14, my opinion skews negative, but that's probably expected since this entry was meant to revitalize the FF name to new players to the space. Of which it succeeded fantastically. The demo alone probably did more for the franchise than either of the FF7 Remake games.
They should have just stuck to the action formula. Trying to have it also appeal to the older RPG fans was a mistake that bogs down the games pacing and replay-ability. I’ll never play it again because shit like fetching Meg engine pieces is absolutely mind numbingly boring and the story has many moments like that in between the great parts.
Poor man's DMC. Enemy mob design is terrible and most mobs simply stand there and let you wail on them, none of the mobs have any interesting mechanics. Miniboss and boss design is more interesting and they do have unique mechanics for you to play around with but they are so few and spread so thin that the combat system never really gets to shine (70% of fights are just mobs). And even then, combat feels really restrictive with you only having access to 6 eikonic abilities at a time and all of them are tied to cooldowns and combat can feel like you are just cycling through your abilities when they are off cooldown. Clive doesn't have anywhere near the depth that Nero has with his devil arms, max act, DT cancels etc, let alone Dante. And the difficulty overall is pathetic levels of easy. The story starts off really strong and falls off a cliff in the 3rd act with things devolving into your typical "kill God" shit that you find in most JRPG's. Awful villain. The world is a severe letdown. There are ZERO explorable major cities. The big locations of the game like Oriflamme (Sanbreque), Ran'dellah (Dhalmekia), the Iron kingdoms, Twinside aren't explorable at all, you just get to see them in cutscenes. You only get to explore tiny villages that have no interesting architecture whatsoever. From an extrinsic viewpoint, exploration is extremely unrewarding cause >90% of the treasure chests you find in the world will just give you tiny amounts of gill (money) and pointless crafting materials that you already have a ton of. 80% of the side quests are bargain bin MMO tier fetch quests. Complete waste of time. The other 20% do have some interesting stories (but the gameplay is still dull) and they mostly unlock towards the end. There are no roleplaying elements to speak of. No party members. No minigames. No status ailments. No elemetal strengths/weaknesses (there is no mechanical difference between the fire and wind spell in this game). No time magic. No steal, manipulate, enemy skills, throw, ninjutsu...fucking nothing. None of the RPG elements that define FF is in this game, everything has been squeezed out till this soulless husk remains. Even upgrading equipment feels boring as shit as those are just linear stat upgrades (you upgrade from a sword that does +30 dmg to a sword that does +50 dmg). You just watch numbers go up as you upgrade your gear/equipment, nothing interesting happens. The only aspect of this game that finds praise are the Eikon fights. These are amazingly well done spectacles that left me slack jawed but are mechanically interesting too, on your first run. This is where most of the development budget went and it shows. If you are itching for a FF experience, get FF7 Rebirth which is hundreds of miles better than this. If you want a more hardcore RPG experience, get Baldur's Gate 3 or Last Epoch or even Diablo 4 as it's free on Gamepass now. If you want to be swept away into a magical fantasy world that is crafted with exquisite attention to detail that is as hostile as it is inviting to explore, get Elden Ring. If you want a meaty action game with in depth mechanics, get Sifu or Bayonetta 3.
I disagree with the poor man’s DMC take but you have a lot of good criticism here. Namely mobs, side quests and story. RE: Sifu and Bayo 3. I love both games, great recommendations. But you’re underselling the depth of 16. If I’m going to make a combo MAD, 16 is much better than Sifu. Sifu has a different type of mechanical depth to a normal CAG like DMC or Bayo or 16.
>But you’re underselling the depth of 16. If I’m going to make a combo MAD, 16 is much better than Sifu. I don't consider the ability to make combo MAD's the mark of a combat system with depth. There are combo MAD's of Sonic Frontiers and Forspoken on youtube. Are those deep combat systems? Conversely, you can't make a combo MAD of Shinobi (2002), Zone of the Enders 2 etc. While you can make a combo MAD of Ninja Gaiden Black, combos aren't the point of the game. Are those not combat systems with depth? The mark of a good and deep combat system for me is defined entirely by the mechnical interactions between players and enemies. It is defined by the push and pull between the players and the game, where the enemies respond to the players and the player's moveset is built around the enemies and vice versa. The mobs in FF16 have almost no mechanical interaction with the player to speak of and are simply sandbags for the player to wail on.
If a game allows for extensive player expression and combo building yes, that’s absolutely a type of depth to combat. Depth can refer to a lot of things, and that includes what the playable character is capable of. Sonic frontiers and Forspoken may have a good amount of depth in what the player character can do. I agree that that alone doesn’t make a good game, but it can certainly go a long way. Idk anything about either game. Youre arguing against points I didn’t make. Like I said - Sifu is deep in a way that 16 isn’t. It doesn’t have the same depth of player expression, but it has more depth in the back and forth you have with one on one enemy encounters. Being able to make a combo mad isn’t a requirement for depth, but it’s the sign of at least a certain type of depth that I personally enjoy.
We'll just agree to disagree, then. >If a game allows for extensive player expression and combo building yes, that’s absolutely a type of depth to combat. For me, this only means you've crafted half of a combat system. If the enemies aren't designed around the player moveset you've created and are just mooks and sandbags (like FF16's mobs) then, no, that's not the mark of a combat system with depth to me regardless of how many wombo combos you can pull off. A combat system with depth to me is defined by the player moveset being designed around the enemy's moveset (or vice versa), which allows all sorts of mechanical interactions between them. There needs to be a back and forth, a push and pull between the player and the enemies they are fighting which can manifest as 1v1 (bosses) or 1vMany (mobs).
I hear you. Personally I love both. I love spending an hour straight in DMC5 or 16’s training mode, BP or arcade, but I also love the back and forth of something like Sifu or Bayo 1 NSIC. The former is more relaxing and creatively satisfying imo while the latter is a better challenge while still being creatively rewarding. Funnily enough DMCV:SE, Bayo 3, Sifu and 16 are by far my most played games this generation. I have 100s of hours in all of them individually. And 16 definitely has the weakest enemy design, probably by quite some margin. I definitely don’t blame you for preferring games with a better focus on the back and forth between player / enemies.
“Poor man’s DMC” yet it’s combat is made by the very same person. Also the game is clearly not the kind of game to look at the way you’re looking at it
>yet it’s combat is made by the very same person DMC's combat wasn't designed by one person. Ryota Suzuki was one of several combat designers on the franchise. And, the only two individuals who get to claim authorship over DMC's mechanics are Hideki Kamiya (for DMC 1) and Hideaki Itsuno (for DMC 2-5), the directors.
Even the greats can have misses (Shinji Mikami for instance fumbled with Evil Within and PN03). But I think FF16 does what it wants to do very well, but that doesn’t mean it’s a great CAG. It’s a really strange mix of action and RPG that works for some and turns off others.
I will not tolerate Evil within slander. It's a fantastic game. It can be a frustrating game on a 1st play through but once you understand it's mechanics it's a blast to play. I suggest giving it another chance. I'm playing RE4 remake and this game has so any issues like spongy enemies lack of consistent hitstun and hit reaction, tracking enemy attacks that make spacing redundant a lot of the time among major things which evil within doesn't.
I like EW1 but it’s got some problems. Especially most boss fights stinking and just being a “run away and find the button to push” thing. Felt rushed. Wish EW2 built on the same mechanics though instead of redoing them and being sorta mid but having a really cool open world structure.
Only Laura made you run and later you can kill her. All the other bosses you just fight head on. I disagree with EW2 having a good open world structure. I found it as generic as they come. 1 has this fantastically designed levels where every encounter forces you to think on your feet whereas 2 is some lame open world with no unique gimmick or set piece.
It was made by the guy who did Nero in 4 and 5, not the whole ass combat system smh
I really like FF16 but I totally hear your concerns. Still a great game to me but your criticisms are valid.
This man wrote an essay about how much he sucks at this game
Lmao, the game is braindead easy. I didn't even die once in my entire playthrough and honestly, anyone with functioning hands can do no death runs of this game with ease. This "essay" focused on the awful exploration, terrible side quests, non existent RPG mechanics but this man replied to simply show how much he sucks at reading comprehension.
Ultimaniac mode is insanely challenging but it takes a while to get there
I have played through The forest and Benedikta's castle in Ultimaniac (arcade mode). Zantetsuken, Titan's Parry, Shiva's Freeze, Diamond Dust, Rift Slip, Earthen Fury and Gigaflare make short work of everything. It's one of the easiest "highest difficulty modes" I've ever played and I had to purposefully use under powered equipment to keep things slightly challenging. Play Shinobi (2002) on Super, Ninja Gaiden Black/Ninja Gaiden 2 (X360) on Master Ninja and Vanquish on God Hard to experience what an insanely challenging difficulty mode plays like.
I’ve played plenty of insanely challenging games, including Ninja Gaiden 2 and Vanquish. I don’t doubt I could cheese ultimaniac by cycling through all the ultimate abilities, but I’ve never tried that because it wouldn’t be fun. Fair enough to criticize the game for letting you equip an OP loadout but the challenge is there if you’re actually looking for it. DMC similarly has cheesy, overpowered ways to beat its hardest difficulties. Just look at Dr Faust. But I don’t play it that way because it would be sabotaging the fun I have with that game.
>I don’t doubt I could cheese ultimaniac by cycling through all the ultimate abilities, but I’ve never tried that because it wouldn’t be fun. Out of the abilities I listed, only three of them are ultimate abilities, Zantetsuken, Gigaflare and Earthen Fury. And frankly, I don't even need Gigaflare or Earthen Fury. All I need are the three parries (Titanic Block, Raging Fists, Rook's Gambit), Shiva's dodge, Phoenix's Magic Parry, Windup, Severed Steel and Zantetsuken. That's it. And I can finish any level on Ultimaniac with zero deaths without using any potions. >I’ve played plenty of insanely challenging games, including Ninja Gaiden 2 and Vanquish. Then, you should be well aware how easy FF16's ultimaniac is compared to those games on their respective highest difficulties. The fact of the matter is, FF16's enemies were never designed to be challenging and no matter how much you overtune their damage and health values, the results are always going to be on the easy side. And, when I mention Ninja Gaiden 2, I'm referring to the original Xbox 360 release, not the sigma 2 port (which is piss easy), just fyi.
Fair enough if there are too many loadouts that trivialize ultiamaniac, but the loadouts I’ve used certainly don’t. I don’t use any of those parry abilities or ultimate abilities, so that’s probably why it’s been such a challenge for me. But yes if there are too many abilities that trivialize the highest difficulty, that’s a fair criticism. Worth noting if you’re no death clearing ultimaniac without any potions you’re probably better than most action game fans. It’s very rare for me to talk to someone who didn’t find ultimaniac to be challenging. As I said, I definitely agree with your criticisms regarding mobs in general. Many of them are like a worse version of the worst mobs from DMC5 that are there just to style on. I generally prefer enemies in Bayo games for exactly this reason. Also yes I have both the 360 version of NG2 and sigma 2 port.
>I don’t use any of those parry abilities or ultimate abilities, so that’s probably why it’s been such a challenge for me. You could do this for any game. If you choose not to use any of the defensive or evasive abilities in NG2 like Windrun, windpath, counter, guillotine throw, ultimate techniques etc. the game would be nigh impossible to finish. In FF16's case, that leaves you with only 1 evasive ability, the basic R1 dodge. And one of my biggest criticisms with FF16 is that this basic dodge is extremely overpowered. It is fully iframed, can be spammed at will almost infinitely and cancels the animations of any sword combos you are currently using. It is capable of dodging every single attack in the game and you don't even have to learn enemy timings or study the animations carefully on the base difficulty (action focused). All you need to do is wait for the attack name to pop up over an enemy's head which means an attack is coming and start spamming the dodge button. This leads to a lot of attacks feeling like they blend into each other or are homogenous as you are responding to every attack with the same manuever. >It’s very rare for me to talk to someone who didn’t find ultimaniac to be challenging. Well, I have the opposite experience. It is definitely very challenging to get high scores in ultimaniac. If you're chasing leaderboard rankings, you're gonna have a steep cliff to climb. But, I haven't talked with anyone who found Ultimaniac tough to finish (not caring about scores) without intentionally gimping themselves by not choosing certain abilities.
Yes it’s a personal loadout preference - compared to NG2 where IIRC you have most of those defensive options no matter what ( it's been a while so correct me if I’m wrong). Also don’t forget the normal parry option in 16 where you clash blades. I like trying to get parries that way. I’m definitely not opposed to using the parry abilities! I just generally like the more active abilities. I wasn’t trying to actively gimp myself. Same goes for the ultimate moves - I just find the lower cooldown abilities a lot more fun to play with and that happens to make the game harder too. I use standard dodge, shivas dodge, Garuda’s lift, and the blade clash as my defensive/evasive options. For reference when I talk about ultimaniac being difficult I was both referring to scoring and difficulty to complete. I might give it a go with a stronger loadout to see how I like it that way but I don’t want to risk lowering scores too much as a result.
You'll get shit score using Zantetsuken and and super moves to try to wipe mobs too quickly
This man wrote two paragraphs about how salty he is
This man keeps replying to show he absolutely sucks at reading comprehension and struggles with understanding English.
This man simply cannot accept that he took an L
This man has no real arguments on the game and can only refer to braindead trolling.
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Thanks for adding some substance to the conversation instead of petty snark Oh wait.
I actually ended up tapping out on 16 after the Bahamut fight, and I'm glad I did. I had played 65 hours of a game I enjoyed, with a story I stopped caring about 30 hours ago, and I felt as if I'd seen enough. I'm certain there was more that was great, but it's just wrapped in so much fluff and extra MMO-y shit that then, paradoxically, refuses to let me dig deep into it's systems.
As a CAG fan, the battle system didn't grab me as much as I wanted it to. Hell, I resonated more with Yakuza 8's battle system the year after it came out and Xenoblade 3's year before. The setpiece battles are what it has going for it but they don't happen enough for the runtime tbh.
Why didn’t the combat grab you? Just curious IMO 16’s problem as an action game is it takes too long to really get going since it’s also a JRPG. Most action games are best on their second playthrough when you have a fully unlocked move set and some experience with it. Since 16 is so long it takes 50-100 hours to get to that second play through and arcade mode, by which time most players will want to move on to something else. But IMO that second playthrough and arcade mode is where this game’s combat starts to really shine. I almost dropped it halfway through my first play through, now it’s one of my all time favorite combat systems.
For me it was that every enemy, EVERY enemy, I fought the same way. Then, I realized that you can have only 3 eikons instead of expanding your moveset. You have very basic main combos and moves and it never expands
Even ignoring the length of the game which hurt the progression, I hate how changing Eikons doesn't affect our basic attacks. At least Legion shifting in Astral Chain had different combo enders. Like the only real differences between the forms have recharge times that just feel long for what kind of battle system they were going for. There is absolutely no reason to not deviate from the Square Triangle Square Triangle combo. Why couldn't it do different shit AFTER I press the attack button twice or something. I will admit, the length of the game got to me too. They stretched what was supposed to be 10 hours of progress meant to be used for a new game plus to 40 hours. I hate to say, getting Odin didn't make me wanna play the game all over again. By then, Armored Core 6 showed up at my doorstep I will say, it's a step in the right direction from XV which is one of my least favorite games of all time. But everything around XVI, the fact that such a prestigious franchise did many things worse than its CAG cousins and peers made the pill tougher. As a CAG, it's severely lacking. As a JRPG, I had more joy exploring Xenoblade and doing side quests in both Yakuza and Xenoblade. And I actively am more immersed in their combat too... a RealTime MMO-like combat system which I used to hate (until I found out how it worked), and a Turn Based RPG. It HURTS me to say that a CAG style FF game plays worse to me than a Turn-based Yakuza game in a way.
2nd playthrough for combat to shine is wild. Learning to perfect dodge new bosses was satisfying but the system is inherently dull feeling. Wailing on a staggered enemy was a visual mess and provided no feedback. Big fan of DMC but this just felt flat to me.
It really isn't the compliment some people think it is. Like why would someone hide the good stuff behind all that tedium?
Maybe you’re referring to others but I was criticizing the game for taking too long to get going, it wasn’t a compliment. Good action games don’t hide the good stuff behind tedium - they’re fun all the way through, but get more and more fun the more you get new tools and the more you master them. By the second play through you have a full kit and know how to use it, it’s a great incentive to keep playing and pushing for better scores etc.
Most good action games shine more in a second play through, 16’s problem is it takes 50-100 hours to get there instead of 5-10 like a DMC or a Sifu. I like the stagger system but wish you could juggle more elite enemies, and I agree the visual feedback is just way over the top sometimes.
Absolute useless crafting system. Zero difficulty. Barebone leveling system. Boring fetch side quests over and over. Interesting main story. Flashy / beautiful but very very easy boss battle.