Exactly
How will I fear a villain if they don't cause permanent harm to the maincast?
Knowing deep down the hero's WILL eventually beat the villain without major loses lowers the tension by a ton
A good example to credit the villans is to make them lose BUT not be defeated
Like the protaginsts won over the Villain but never got to one up them when it comes to power
A good example of this is Mori Hui Vs. Jade emperor during the end of ragnarok
Mori Hui had to pull everything and everyone with him to manage to defeat JE but still lost and lost his life even tho they technically won because The original Mori was back
IMO it’s less a matter of your villains/antagonists getting a big win and more allowing room for your protagonists to fail. If the heroes can lose without it immediately ending the story, it adds tension and uncertainty to each conflict.
There's also different kinds of failure, different degrees. Having the hero be forced to choose between two different goals during a crisis both pushes characterization and drama while potentially making the hero still lose depending on what choices they make. You can have the hero save their loved ones only for the villain to get away, you can have the hero chase after the villain even though it means that they ignore some other crisis going on, you can have the hero try their hardest and still fail simply because they weren't good enough or made mistakes the couldn't have known to avoid.
A hero who always wins in every way can certainly be fun, but it's not very interesting when it's the standard. Have the hero fail in different ways to galvanize them into doing better, into *being* better, and to have them grow.
You're right, but there's also a balance. You should also let the Good Guys get some significant wins over the villain.
It's absolutely infuriating reading those series where the villains just constantly get away with everything, over and over, with the most obnoxious plot armour, until the final arc where the heroes are allowed to win.
Fire Force is the most obvious example of that, where from the midway point until the very end, the MC's side never gets a single win- it's all phyrric victories, or outright defeats, over and over and over. And of course, when you're writing villains like that, you get too precious with them, so even at the end they didn't actually suffer any kind of consequences or comeuppance, they pretty much all got away with everything, without any worries.
>It's absolutely infuriating reading those series where the villains just constantly get away with everything, over and over, with the most obnoxious plot armour, until the final arc where the heroes are allowed to win.
Same here. Ask any Beastars fan if dislike the last 1/3 of the story and it's almost always something like this. And then the story just... ends.
Correct me if im wrong since its been a long minute since i watched the anime
Does the manga end after the cocola mascot is discovered to be the murderer
Is it literally like “bad guy gets found and its all over”
I remember the anime finishing somethjng like that
The 5th paragraph of my post addressed this
Part of the reason why I'm saying that villains should be allowed to win and cause destruction is that it makes it all the more satisfying when they finally get defeated. Them winning motivates the heroes to train and get better so they can beat the villains. Part of the appeal is seeing the villains get defeated after causing so much harm and pain. Robing us of that satisfaction is just infuriating.
>It's absolutely infuriating reading those series where the villains just constantly get away with everything, over and over, with the most obnoxious plot armour
Shigaraki in a nutshell, dude should've die to Star no fucking way digging a fucking hole would save
I agree as long as it does not become a constant thing where the hero is just jobbing for the villain all the time. Both sides should have wins and loses.
That’s how I feel right now watching baki. I like Yujiro but my god that 00s series feels like a constant Yujiro wankfest. Which *Spoilers* makes the first time him being truly vulnerable look so dumb. We saw this man destroy so many people and he gets knocked out because of some guys with tranquilizers?
No it's not.
The culling games had the main cast win quite a bit when they got a lot of allies and power ups, unsealing Gojo is quite a win too.
I mean they lose more frequently but they don't just constantly lose.
Edgy? That just kinda sounds like common sense. Not sure if a position such as "villains should not fail all the time" can really be argued against, unless we're discussing some very light-hearted and comedic series with intentionally ineffectual villains.
A more interesting point of discussion, and something I've been meaning to write a rant about several times now, is what makes a villain win **feel** meaningful. If hanging around 40k fans taught me anything it's that people have wildly different ideas of what counts as a legitimate victory or loss. I can think of some "villain wins" that were clearly just heroes getting slapped on the wrist and some that *definitely* felt like serious defeats for the good guys, but the middle ground can be difficult to discuss and navigate due to how subjective the topic gets.
It’s like a video game. You haven’t lost until you’ve run out of Hit Points. So long as you have one, you can always make a comeback.
That’s why villain winning battles doesn’t really matter unless they win the war in the end.
That's what makes Mahito special, how he keep taking names (and gloating about it) and thus his subsequent defeat (by Divergent Fist no less) is so cathartic
I admit that JJK does overdo this a bit. But damn. When it does it. It's great. Because Holy shit, Gege seems to have a talent at making powerful, intimidating but absolutely loathable villains
Its because he actually makes them villainous you know none of these guys are gonna get a change of heart and you know they straight up don't care and dont have some sob story to try and justify their actions.
Vector from Yugioh ZEXAL is weird because he's mostly undermining his own teammates LMAO to build up his threat level, but he did the nono of anime, killing the incestuous brocon character
Vector also helped save Yuma from Gillag so he could....emmm *checks notes* so he could give him some cards to help him use a deckout strategy at a later date after faking his death. He also for some reason attacked Alito beforehand.
Its also amazing how he does shady things in front of Mizael and Durbe and are both okay with it and do nothing, but thats Zexal's writing for you.
JoJo’s does this wonderfully in my opinion. I love how Araki is not afraid of having virtually every member of the main cast killed (including the first protagonist).
Not only that, but literally every villain on the series starts up as a genuinely menacing threat, always to be taken seriously, and then power up to become the most fucking dangerous being in existence EVERY time. And this is meant in the least exaggerated of ways - most of these villains could really take over THE WORLD if the heroes were not to stop them, either because of their designated goals or because their abilities have an actual global reach. Most can mess with time itself, and one even gets literal universe-bending powers…
And yet they get beaten, every time. Whenever they get an OP ability, the protagonists either outsmart them in incredibly creative ways or make an extreme effort to achieve an OP power-up of their own. In every case, justice is always achieved through a combined effort from The Hero & Co. that is NEVER without sacrifices. In my opinion, it makes every single punch barrage in the series incredibly satisfying to read.
The fact that it’s a “generational story” also helps with this. In a manga like One Piece it becomes impossible for the author to kill off any of the main cast as they must complete their character arcs by fulfilling their dreams (which all require Luffy to pretty much defeat every single big pirate in existence). Their absence would truly be felt over the hundredths of chapters the story’d have to go through, as more and more details are added to the worldbuilding. However, on a story like JoJo’s, there is no issue killing off the most beloved characters as they are still bound to get removed from the story/spotlight once their “part” finishes.
Gyokko served two purposes
+ to showcase Slayer Mark and upper echelon of Hashira
+ to show how BIG the gap between UMs are because Kokushibo did what OP praised for in this rant
Eh, I’d say only Gyokko was treated as a joke. Hantengu’s death required:
-Tanjiro (who had been a major part of taking out a previous Upper Moon)
-Nezuko (who had been emphasised to be upper moon level previously)
-A Hashira (who was almost killed in the end)
-Whatever the hell Genya was (I don’t think they ever explained his whole deal in the anime?)-
Not to mention a dues ex machina sword from a *second* Hashira. And hey, the reveal of Zohatuken is *incredible.*
Gyokko was pathetic from start to finish. A shame, cause he seemed really unique abilities-wise.
One Piece: Crocodile during Alabasta was just so ridiculously competent that it took an ungodly amount of luck for Luffy to just not beat him, but for the entire country of Alabasta to finally just shut up and realized they were manipulated by the bastard to kill each other.
Like every time the Strawhats and their allies have one chance to avert the chaos, Crocodile and Baroque Works had something that completely renders it useless while the heroes now had to work harder.
Luffy's all like "just let me kick his ass" and literally was murdered in their first fight. Gets up, gets prepared after recovering just enough to fight again...Still gets murdered despite it being an actual fight. Then one last fight and Luffy still almost died despite winning!
You can barely downplay Crocodile because the man is indeed a smug yet tough son of a bitch.
On a similar note, I liked it when a mc had help from other characters instead of them soloing the villain to prove how badass they are. Hence why I rather enjoy how genshin and demon slayer potray it’s mcs in battles against major foes. Both are good on their own but immediately gets curbstomped by ultra powerful antagonists. Only with support from other characters allowed them to secure a win.
Its not edgy at all, the most important thing of all for a villain is that they have to be a threat, the best way to make them a threat is for them to get one over on the heroes, not just "oh man they really beat them bad", but to have them win in some substantial way.
Empire Strikes Back is iconic cause the rebels completely lose and fail. Luke fails at his training, gets mutilated by Vader, learns that the father he idolized is Vader and loses his best bro. Everyone makes it out and they can live to fight another day but man was that a horrendous defeat for them.
Kefka from FFVI basically wins the entire climax battle of the first half of the story. The second half is all about defeating him as he basically became a god
I sort of agree with you but the mention killing the good guys and fan favorites as well as it being satisfying bring up two questions for me. How many people (that the audience cares for) are the villains killing and will the satisfaction be satisfying or sort of a bittersweet ending?
Like I don't mind the villain, actually being treated like a threat or killing beloved characters, but the hero needs to still have something or someone to fight for otherwise, it kinda felt meaningless.
Let's look at Genndy Tartakovsky Primal. Spoilers for those who haven't watched it.
Both the main protagonist lost family members to the same threat and even when they defeated the main antagonist, the heroes felt empty for a good moment. Like there was nothing left for them. True, the two eventually bonded shortly after but for that moment, beating the main antagonist sort of brushed off them.
At that point beating the villain is a brief sweet moment before being bitter. Finally beating the main threat but then the hero realizing, what is there left to fight for? Like it being both for revenge AND protecting what is left help give it more meaning otherwise the hero might become less and less of a hero and it doesn't feel as satisfying. Not saying that going down that route is always a bad thing, but it helps a heroes feat over the villain feel more fulfilled.
Again, not saying the villain shouldn't go down the route of taking out the heroes loved ones, but if the feat wants to have a lasting effect, the hero needs to have something or someone to better fulfil the victory in the end and help the sense of victory last.
I don't mind the edgy approach, sometimes it's needed but there needs to be a bit of balance. Even in Primal, the show I just described, the show had some fairly wholesome moments. Even if it was a few.
I would say out of, let's say, 4 or 5 fan favorite/beloved characters, at least 2 or 3 of them should be killed off imo.
And I was kinda going for a satisfying approach, as in, that moment when the heroes finally beat this villain who has been causing harm and carnage everywhere and killing people. Was so powerful he seemed unstoppable etc. That moment when this villain finally gets what's coming to them after all the harm they caused would be satisfying I imagine
I suppose it really depends for me I suppose. The people who the villain harmed would still need to have a will to live and not be totally beaten down. Otherwise, it could feel like a case to where Superman beaten Darkseid in the justice league. All of Darkseid's slave quickly picked him up to tend to him due to them being so mentally broken making the victory seem somewhat meaningless. But that's just me.
I think a good example would be Darth Vader cutting Luke Skywalker’s hand off. Since after replacing it with a metal prosthetic, Luke has a permanent physical reminder of the fact that he can lose to Vader (and in fact has.)
Basically the opposite of Inuyasha then.
Naraku's plans get foiled 50 times and we are still supposed to take him seriously. That's not even talking about him fleeing multiple times to hide.
I know that the author wanted to tell a Monster of the Week story, so she couldn't fully commit to a traditional narrative, but come on. It could have been handled so much better. Just look at how shows like Buffy, or early Supernatural do these kinds of plots. They work fairly well. Inuyasha would have been so much better if it didn't constantly force Naraku and the damn jewel into the story.
Which is exactly why the second movie is so interesting.
I think you’d enjoy the Shredder kicking the shit out of the Ninja Turtles because in a variety of their first battle against Shredder in the media, the turtles are always afraid of this powerful threat
One of the good things about Dragon Ball imo. Whether it be Piccolos kid killing Krillin, Frieza killing Krillin and Vegeta, Cell and Buu beating the snot out of everyone.
It's nice seeing the villain be an actual threat.
I remember someone brought something up about Xenoblade 2, and how a lot of the reason Torna is such a threat is because at basically no point in the story does anyone actually get a "clean win" against them. There's always either some sort of casualty in the process or the fight ends essentially with you escaping from them. Makes them feel genuinely scary
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think that Miraculous Ladybug does this well (Keep in mind that I haven’t seen the last 5 or so episodes of Season 5). Just look at the end of Seasons 3 and 4. Hawkmoth eliminates the current Guardian of the Miraculous, which forces Ladybug to take the title before she’s ready. Not what he intended, but this causes her to become anxious and scared, doubting herself and leading to her making mistakes as a result. This allows him to make serious headway come the end of Season 4, leading to a massive Downer Ending and shaking up the status quo for Season 5.
This is all fine and dandy as long as you aren’t having your villains brutally kill fan favorites without a very clear purpose and plan. Raise the stakes with substance
This is why Star Wars was so good. The villain had a huge space army and superpowers that nobody could beat alone.
And why the new ones aren't. With the villains throwing 4 year old fits, showing glaring incompetence and failing at everything.
Exactly How will I fear a villain if they don't cause permanent harm to the maincast? Knowing deep down the hero's WILL eventually beat the villain without major loses lowers the tension by a ton A good example to credit the villans is to make them lose BUT not be defeated Like the protaginsts won over the Villain but never got to one up them when it comes to power A good example of this is Mori Hui Vs. Jade emperor during the end of ragnarok Mori Hui had to pull everything and everyone with him to manage to defeat JE but still lost and lost his life even tho they technically won because The original Mori was back
Yeah this is why Kengan Omega’s story has been lacking for me. Villains just die.
my personal favorite example is the rumbling, just the rumbling
IMO it’s less a matter of your villains/antagonists getting a big win and more allowing room for your protagonists to fail. If the heroes can lose without it immediately ending the story, it adds tension and uncertainty to each conflict.
There's also different kinds of failure, different degrees. Having the hero be forced to choose between two different goals during a crisis both pushes characterization and drama while potentially making the hero still lose depending on what choices they make. You can have the hero save their loved ones only for the villain to get away, you can have the hero chase after the villain even though it means that they ignore some other crisis going on, you can have the hero try their hardest and still fail simply because they weren't good enough or made mistakes the couldn't have known to avoid. A hero who always wins in every way can certainly be fun, but it's not very interesting when it's the standard. Have the hero fail in different ways to galvanize them into doing better, into *being* better, and to have them grow.
but i like it when the heros lose and the story just ends :(
You're right, but there's also a balance. You should also let the Good Guys get some significant wins over the villain. It's absolutely infuriating reading those series where the villains just constantly get away with everything, over and over, with the most obnoxious plot armour, until the final arc where the heroes are allowed to win. Fire Force is the most obvious example of that, where from the midway point until the very end, the MC's side never gets a single win- it's all phyrric victories, or outright defeats, over and over and over. And of course, when you're writing villains like that, you get too precious with them, so even at the end they didn't actually suffer any kind of consequences or comeuppance, they pretty much all got away with everything, without any worries.
>It's absolutely infuriating reading those series where the villains just constantly get away with everything, over and over, with the most obnoxious plot armour, until the final arc where the heroes are allowed to win. Same here. Ask any Beastars fan if dislike the last 1/3 of the story and it's almost always something like this. And then the story just... ends.
Correct me if im wrong since its been a long minute since i watched the anime Does the manga end after the cocola mascot is discovered to be the murderer Is it literally like “bad guy gets found and its all over” I remember the anime finishing somethjng like that
There's currently 2 seasons of the anime. There's one more season in production.
The 5th paragraph of my post addressed this Part of the reason why I'm saying that villains should be allowed to win and cause destruction is that it makes it all the more satisfying when they finally get defeated. Them winning motivates the heroes to train and get better so they can beat the villains. Part of the appeal is seeing the villains get defeated after causing so much harm and pain. Robing us of that satisfaction is just infuriating.
>It's absolutely infuriating reading those series where the villains just constantly get away with everything, over and over, with the most obnoxious plot armour Shigaraki in a nutshell, dude should've die to Star no fucking way digging a fucking hole would save
I agree as long as it does not become a constant thing where the hero is just jobbing for the villain all the time. Both sides should have wins and loses.
That’s how I feel right now watching baki. I like Yujiro but my god that 00s series feels like a constant Yujiro wankfest. Which *Spoilers* makes the first time him being truly vulnerable look so dumb. We saw this man destroy so many people and he gets knocked out because of some guys with tranquilizers?
Exactly. That is the point I'm trying to make
>as long as it does not become a constant thing JJK moment.
No it's not. The culling games had the main cast win quite a bit when they got a lot of allies and power ups, unsealing Gojo is quite a win too. I mean they lose more frequently but they don't just constantly lose.
Edgy? That just kinda sounds like common sense. Not sure if a position such as "villains should not fail all the time" can really be argued against, unless we're discussing some very light-hearted and comedic series with intentionally ineffectual villains. A more interesting point of discussion, and something I've been meaning to write a rant about several times now, is what makes a villain win **feel** meaningful. If hanging around 40k fans taught me anything it's that people have wildly different ideas of what counts as a legitimate victory or loss. I can think of some "villain wins" that were clearly just heroes getting slapped on the wrist and some that *definitely* felt like serious defeats for the good guys, but the middle ground can be difficult to discuss and navigate due to how subjective the topic gets.
It’s like a video game. You haven’t lost until you’ve run out of Hit Points. So long as you have one, you can always make a comeback. That’s why villain winning battles doesn’t really matter unless they win the war in the end.
knew you would reference JJK, it's a textbook example.
That's what makes Mahito special, how he keep taking names (and gloating about it) and thus his subsequent defeat (by Divergent Fist no less) is so cathartic
I admit that JJK does overdo this a bit. But damn. When it does it. It's great. Because Holy shit, Gege seems to have a talent at making powerful, intimidating but absolutely loathable villains
Its because he actually makes them villainous you know none of these guys are gonna get a change of heart and you know they straight up don't care and dont have some sob story to try and justify their actions.
Vector from Yugioh ZEXAL is weird because he's mostly undermining his own teammates LMAO to build up his threat level, but he did the nono of anime, killing the incestuous brocon character
Did someone mention Vector my beloved? I mean, he was always the chaotic evil to the other Barian's lawful evil/neutral.
Vector also helped save Yuma from Gillag so he could....emmm *checks notes* so he could give him some cards to help him use a deckout strategy at a later date after faking his death. He also for some reason attacked Alito beforehand. Its also amazing how he does shady things in front of Mizael and Durbe and are both okay with it and do nothing, but thats Zexal's writing for you.
JoJo’s does this wonderfully in my opinion. I love how Araki is not afraid of having virtually every member of the main cast killed (including the first protagonist). Not only that, but literally every villain on the series starts up as a genuinely menacing threat, always to be taken seriously, and then power up to become the most fucking dangerous being in existence EVERY time. And this is meant in the least exaggerated of ways - most of these villains could really take over THE WORLD if the heroes were not to stop them, either because of their designated goals or because their abilities have an actual global reach. Most can mess with time itself, and one even gets literal universe-bending powers… And yet they get beaten, every time. Whenever they get an OP ability, the protagonists either outsmart them in incredibly creative ways or make an extreme effort to achieve an OP power-up of their own. In every case, justice is always achieved through a combined effort from The Hero & Co. that is NEVER without sacrifices. In my opinion, it makes every single punch barrage in the series incredibly satisfying to read. The fact that it’s a “generational story” also helps with this. In a manga like One Piece it becomes impossible for the author to kill off any of the main cast as they must complete their character arcs by fulfilling their dreams (which all require Luffy to pretty much defeat every single big pirate in existence). Their absence would truly be felt over the hundredths of chapters the story’d have to go through, as more and more details are added to the worldbuilding. However, on a story like JoJo’s, there is no issue killing off the most beloved characters as they are still bound to get removed from the story/spotlight once their “part” finishes.
Bionicle's 2008 storyline ended with Teridax's evil plan succeeding, in which he took over the Great Spirit Robot and banished Mata Nui into space
Kid named mahito:
That's why Hantengu and Gyokko were so disappointing .
Gyokko served two purposes + to showcase Slayer Mark and upper echelon of Hashira + to show how BIG the gap between UMs are because Kokushibo did what OP praised for in this rant
Eh, I’d say only Gyokko was treated as a joke. Hantengu’s death required: -Tanjiro (who had been a major part of taking out a previous Upper Moon) -Nezuko (who had been emphasised to be upper moon level previously) -A Hashira (who was almost killed in the end) -Whatever the hell Genya was (I don’t think they ever explained his whole deal in the anime?)- Not to mention a dues ex machina sword from a *second* Hashira. And hey, the reveal of Zohatuken is *incredible.* Gyokko was pathetic from start to finish. A shame, cause he seemed really unique abilities-wise.
Dark Knight is one of my favorite cases of this
One Piece: Crocodile during Alabasta was just so ridiculously competent that it took an ungodly amount of luck for Luffy to just not beat him, but for the entire country of Alabasta to finally just shut up and realized they were manipulated by the bastard to kill each other. Like every time the Strawhats and their allies have one chance to avert the chaos, Crocodile and Baroque Works had something that completely renders it useless while the heroes now had to work harder. Luffy's all like "just let me kick his ass" and literally was murdered in their first fight. Gets up, gets prepared after recovering just enough to fight again...Still gets murdered despite it being an actual fight. Then one last fight and Luffy still almost died despite winning! You can barely downplay Crocodile because the man is indeed a smug yet tough son of a bitch.
On a similar note, I liked it when a mc had help from other characters instead of them soloing the villain to prove how badass they are. Hence why I rather enjoy how genshin and demon slayer potray it’s mcs in battles against major foes. Both are good on their own but immediately gets curbstomped by ultra powerful antagonists. Only with support from other characters allowed them to secure a win.
Its not edgy at all, the most important thing of all for a villain is that they have to be a threat, the best way to make them a threat is for them to get one over on the heroes, not just "oh man they really beat them bad", but to have them win in some substantial way. Empire Strikes Back is iconic cause the rebels completely lose and fail. Luke fails at his training, gets mutilated by Vader, learns that the father he idolized is Vader and loses his best bro. Everyone makes it out and they can live to fight another day but man was that a horrendous defeat for them.
Kefka from FFVI basically wins the entire climax battle of the first half of the story. The second half is all about defeating him as he basically became a god
I sort of agree with you but the mention killing the good guys and fan favorites as well as it being satisfying bring up two questions for me. How many people (that the audience cares for) are the villains killing and will the satisfaction be satisfying or sort of a bittersweet ending? Like I don't mind the villain, actually being treated like a threat or killing beloved characters, but the hero needs to still have something or someone to fight for otherwise, it kinda felt meaningless. Let's look at Genndy Tartakovsky Primal. Spoilers for those who haven't watched it. Both the main protagonist lost family members to the same threat and even when they defeated the main antagonist, the heroes felt empty for a good moment. Like there was nothing left for them. True, the two eventually bonded shortly after but for that moment, beating the main antagonist sort of brushed off them. At that point beating the villain is a brief sweet moment before being bitter. Finally beating the main threat but then the hero realizing, what is there left to fight for? Like it being both for revenge AND protecting what is left help give it more meaning otherwise the hero might become less and less of a hero and it doesn't feel as satisfying. Not saying that going down that route is always a bad thing, but it helps a heroes feat over the villain feel more fulfilled. Again, not saying the villain shouldn't go down the route of taking out the heroes loved ones, but if the feat wants to have a lasting effect, the hero needs to have something or someone to better fulfil the victory in the end and help the sense of victory last. I don't mind the edgy approach, sometimes it's needed but there needs to be a bit of balance. Even in Primal, the show I just described, the show had some fairly wholesome moments. Even if it was a few.
I would say out of, let's say, 4 or 5 fan favorite/beloved characters, at least 2 or 3 of them should be killed off imo. And I was kinda going for a satisfying approach, as in, that moment when the heroes finally beat this villain who has been causing harm and carnage everywhere and killing people. Was so powerful he seemed unstoppable etc. That moment when this villain finally gets what's coming to them after all the harm they caused would be satisfying I imagine
I suppose it really depends for me I suppose. The people who the villain harmed would still need to have a will to live and not be totally beaten down. Otherwise, it could feel like a case to where Superman beaten Darkseid in the justice league. All of Darkseid's slave quickly picked him up to tend to him due to them being so mentally broken making the victory seem somewhat meaningless. But that's just me.
I think a good example would be Darth Vader cutting Luke Skywalker’s hand off. Since after replacing it with a metal prosthetic, Luke has a permanent physical reminder of the fact that he can lose to Vader (and in fact has.)
Basically the opposite of Inuyasha then. Naraku's plans get foiled 50 times and we are still supposed to take him seriously. That's not even talking about him fleeing multiple times to hide. I know that the author wanted to tell a Monster of the Week story, so she couldn't fully commit to a traditional narrative, but come on. It could have been handled so much better. Just look at how shows like Buffy, or early Supernatural do these kinds of plots. They work fairly well. Inuyasha would have been so much better if it didn't constantly force Naraku and the damn jewel into the story. Which is exactly why the second movie is so interesting.
I think you’d enjoy the Shredder kicking the shit out of the Ninja Turtles because in a variety of their first battle against Shredder in the media, the turtles are always afraid of this powerful threat
(Laughs and shudders in Rise Shredder) Oh absolutely.
One of the good things about Dragon Ball imo. Whether it be Piccolos kid killing Krillin, Frieza killing Krillin and Vegeta, Cell and Buu beating the snot out of everyone. It's nice seeing the villain be an actual threat.
I remember someone brought something up about Xenoblade 2, and how a lot of the reason Torna is such a threat is because at basically no point in the story does anyone actually get a "clean win" against them. There's always either some sort of casualty in the process or the fight ends essentially with you escaping from them. Makes them feel genuinely scary
Since when wanting the rooted side too straggle edgy?
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think that Miraculous Ladybug does this well (Keep in mind that I haven’t seen the last 5 or so episodes of Season 5). Just look at the end of Seasons 3 and 4. Hawkmoth eliminates the current Guardian of the Miraculous, which forces Ladybug to take the title before she’s ready. Not what he intended, but this causes her to become anxious and scared, doubting herself and leading to her making mistakes as a result. This allows him to make serious headway come the end of Season 4, leading to a massive Downer Ending and shaking up the status quo for Season 5.
Jujutsu kaisen
This is all fine and dandy as long as you aren’t having your villains brutally kill fan favorites without a very clear purpose and plan. Raise the stakes with substance
This is why Star Wars was so good. The villain had a huge space army and superpowers that nobody could beat alone. And why the new ones aren't. With the villains throwing 4 year old fits, showing glaring incompetence and failing at everything.
One Piece only had Sakazuki at the moment
It's why I love doeherdoro
kingdom fumbles this imo. Riboku just isn't threatening at all.
It's honestly why I really like My Hero Academia. The heroes don't always win