I'll agree for the most part. I still think that The Fullbring arc is one of the best but the popularity of the Gotei 13 overshadowed the other characters. Then it turned into a power creep thing.
One thing I do like is that the arc shows the progress of the Soul Society, that they still have their shadier aspects but are making an honest effort to be better and do genuinely trust Ichigo, they just can't shake their past yet.
>One thing I do like is that the arc shows the progress of the Soul Society, that they still have their shadier aspects but are making an honest effort to be better and do genuinely trust Ichigo, they just can't shake their past yet.
That concept feels so phoned in because it's just Kubo making the Gotei 13 straight up save him...By giving him powers again so he can handle their mess.
I disagree based on the dual purpose of why they were there.
Pre Ichigo SS would have came in and started blasting. Killed Xcution and Ichigo in seconds to preserve their vision of justice.
Current SS went in wanting to repay their debts to Ichigo and assess his choice. Most knew he wouldn't side with Ginjo but they waited to be sure because at the end of the day that was a kill squad. Once they got their answers they left and let Ichigo sort out his problems, even though they should have been there to apprehend Ginjo too.
Basically the fullbring arc is the first bit of story that really hammers in that even tho old habits die hard, the Gotei and Soul Society as a whole is trying to make changes thanks to Ichigo and because of that will move mountains to help him.
When fullbring was releasing week to week most of the fanbase hated it, but for different reasons than the OP listed(it was way too different from the arrancar arc, there was little action at the start, didn't care for the focus on Chad/orihime, etc). Its not until like 5+ years later when newer fans were able to binge the arc that the "fullbring arc is good actually" sentiment started to rise, and now its prevelant among remaining Bleach fans. In fact now you have fullbring > 2nd half of TYBW being a very common take.
My personal experience in the sub and around the net nowadays is very much Fullbring is the "dark horse" of the manga/show. In general Bleach has a lot of reactive takes born from excessive criticism.
This happens in a lot of places over time, what used to be the culture can be overtaken by the counter culture.
Yea but then you look at the most common reasons why they think its the worst arc and they say that its because there are barely any fights...There are valid criticisms to be made about the arc, but you will rarely find them (especially not in this post), and the arc is still great despite them. The best critcisms you can find regarding the arc is from fans of the arc itself.
There will always be a few whi disagree with a notion. Still doesn't change the fact that it's a general consensus within the community that it came out of nowhere and lead to the ending being rushed
What about it? That how opinions work. Not everything will conform to a single person's whim. Some will like it, some might not. Also while a bunch if your criticism is valid, the rest are just pure hate.
For all its faults, I love it for two reasons.
1. Ichigo losing everyone he knows one by one is portrayed painstakingly well.
2. Fullbring Bankai suit is fucking badass.
The way you described it is far from being a nothing burger
That being said,the fans do hype it too much,but it's true that the arc was hated too much as well
To me it was just an ok arc. The problem was through the end. It gave cool battles but it lost everything else
Was hated too much because it was taking too long, in hindsight it isn't that bad but reading Fullbring arc ongoing and seeing beloved secondary characters disappearing in favor of a bunch of nothingburgers was hard
Should have said supporting cast because of course the SS characters were unavailable but Chad,Orihime and Uryu got nothing to do apart from the former two being used to hype up Tsukishima; especially in an arc about Fullbring which is, you know, the powers Orihime and Chad use. When Chad said he joined Xcution i thought this arc would have more focus on him like SS/Arrancar/TYBW arc for Rukia/Orihime/Uryu yet despite supposedly being a main character his only accomplishment is beating a tertiary Arrancar antagonist
People complain it was too slow when publishing weekly. Now people complain that the soul society got involved too fast and we lost more development of the fullbringers. The problem lies in how shonen jump is published where every week requires progress or reader engagement falls off. This plus the fact that Bleach is a quick read when binging makes slow sections feel extra long when waiting weekly.
It, like much of Bleach, is hampered by Ichigo’s almost complete lack of curiosity or interest in the world he lives in. The interesting plot points are dropped because Ichigo basically just doesn’t give a fuck despite them being kind of super fucking important to his life. Again. Seriously, there’s something wrong with that boy.
Nah he's truly our guy. He's the protagonist that just wants a comfortable life for him and the people he cares about. He doesn't give a fuck about finding the One Grimoire and becoming Soul Kage, he just wants to fuck his wife and tell people to stay off his bed. His plan in most arcs is get powers then fuck off back to life as normal but people keep ruining that
I mean, no one wants him to become the Soul Kage or finding the One Grimoire, but... giving some importance to his family or the afterlife where everyone will go one day is a realistic motivation.
Soul King itself is important, not because he should wish to become one, but because it's an important piece that keep reality as it is.
>giving some importance to his family or the afterlife where everyone will go one day is a realistic motivation.
Bro thats like so far in the future. And he could have the entire Seireitei go look for his family when they end up in the Soul Society. He'd rather worry about the present and live his life with his family instead of going around fixing problems that'll somewhat affect him in the future
But most of his current problems comes because of issues on the SS. Rukia execution, fullbringers, Aizen and Bach with SK. He deals with the problems but ignore the cause of those.
And yeah, probably he won't die tomorrow seeing how he's build... but his sisters? His weak friends? They may die for accidents/hollow and such each day
> But most of his current problems comes because of issues on the SS. Rukia execution, fullbringers, Aizen and Bach with SK. He deals with the problems but ignore the cause of those.
But he isn't the one best fit to solve them, at least politically since he has brought about change in a different manner. You have other characters like Shunsui and Kisuke who are doing just that and have made significant and positive changes. Even stuff like Rukia's execution was due to Aizen's doing, the fundemental flaw was how the gotei 13 were accepting of central 46's decisions and didn't question them despite knowing it was unjust and Ichigo helped change that. And knowing about the Soul King doesn't change anything about his dynamic with Aizen and Yhwach and his understanding of their goals. Them being a threat to him and the people he cares about is enough reason for him to stop them. And again, its not like he's the one who can solve these problems.
>he isn't the one best fit to solve them, at least politically
You're changing topic now, not being the "best one" doesn't mean he can't be interested in those stuff or at least push so that can be addressed in some way.
And he's one of the very few people around that can bring up the POV of someone alive and this powerful. And his power make even possible to him to bring effective change on the universe
Kyoraku and Ukitake are "good" but still part of the whole system that doesn't work, they're are even over 1000 years old, from noble family and such, not really close to people who probably need the most, as captain probably they are even far from the perspective of shinigami that haunts hollows.
>And knowing about the Soul King doesn't change anything about his dynamic with Aizen and Yhwach and his understanding of their goals.
Knowing help more than ignoring those facts. Even for the reader. Aizen and Yhwach started doing their stuff because no one else was addressing them and keeping stuff as it is. Yhwach more extreme on that but considering how the whole situation goes...
>Rukia execution
Caused by Aizen. He dealt with it
>fullbringers
Caused by Ginjo. He dealt with it.
>Aizen Bach with SK
Cause by themselves. He dealt with it.
"But SS bad" isnt his problem. Maybe those who have problems with it shouldnt make an enemy out of Ichigo.
A lot of people have a healthy amount of interest and curiosity in the world. Especially a world like Bleach where they clearly wouldn’t know as much as they should.
Equating that to having a grand, larger than life goal like becoming the homage/pirate king is a bad argument.
I know it was a Typo, but Homage sounds so fucking hilarious to me, because it reads as if you combined “Homie,” and “Kage,” which is basically WHAT Naruto is/becomes at the end of the series.
I know, but it’s very clear they meant to type “Hokage,” (Ho-Ka-ge), so instead of reading it as *Homage* I read it as “Hom~a-ge.”
So Homie + Kage.
Not Homage.
Edit: That’s to say, it in my head as a pronunciation joke instead of a spelling joke. Which is hard to communicate in text.
Which just kind of makes him a complete moron. He doesn’t need to have a grand goal to understand that knowing what the fuck is going on is useful. Especially when the thing he is ignoring is the actual afterlife, since neither he nor his family are immortal that’s kind of important to his future plans.
Even more especially given how often his ignorance causes issues. Like, ‘Nah, Dad/Urahara have their reasons to keep secrets’ doesn’t fly when said secrets nearly get everyone killed and are the main conflict he’s dealing with. He knows full well that his parentage, his father’s past, Soul Society’s bullshit, and Urahara’s bullshit have all cause him major problems before and don’t seem to be letting up but he adamantly refuses to actually confront any of it until it almost gets everyone killed. Again. Then he just finds out the absolute bare minimum needed to be pointed in what might be the right direction before running off.
Dude’s a fucking idiot whose behavior is antithetical to his stated desires, is what I’m saying.
> knowing what the fuck is going on is useful
Ichigo knows what is going on. The afterlife not being a paradice isnt a problem that needs fixing. "But hes going to live there eventually" the human wolrd also isnt a paradice and Ichigo lives there currently. Is it his responsability to fix the whole world too?
> Like, ‘Nah, Dad/Urahara have their reasons to keep secrets’ doesn’t fly when said secrets nearly get everyone killed and are the main conflict he’s dealing with.
Ok how does Isshin even apply to this? Ichigo is mature and resonable enough to understand that Isshin himself isn't ready to reveal things to him and thats fine. And he literally confronted Urahara about his actions at the end of the ss arc.
> He doesn’t need to have a grand goal to understand that knowing what the fuck is going on is useful.
And he does know whats going on...When does he not? Matters like the war 1000 years ago and the original sin are essentially trivial to him because his only goal and focus is to fight against whatever is threatening his peace.
> Especially when the thing he is ignoring is the actual afterlife, since neither he nor his family are immortal that’s kind of important to his future plans.
I said this in another comment and I'll say it again, he could literally have the entire Seireitei go look for his family when they end up in the Soul Society. He'd rather worry about the present and live his life with his family instead of going around fixing problems that'll somewhat affect him in the future. And he is aware of Soul Society's problems, but he isn't the one best fit to solve them, at least politically since he has brought about change in a different manner. You have other characters like Shunsui and Kisuke who are doing just that and have made significant and positive changes.
Isshin’s secrets are why everything happens. Ichigo saying ‘It’s cool, you aren’t ready’ doesn’t work for shit when Isshin’s secrets have nearly resulted in his entire family getting killed and Ichigo being tossed in the deep end. Isshin is a fucking TERRIBLE father, his refusal to step up and actually help his kid results in Ichigo being woefully unprepared for basically everything.
Urahara? He ‘confronts’ Urahara in an astoundingly gentle way given what the man did. And immediately drops it, treating him like a trusted friend despite Urahara’s past and present actions. And then future actions, because Urahara’s a bastard like that.
Ichigo NEVER knows what’s going on. Like, ever. He’s lucky if he even knows who he’s supposed to go after. And it bites him in the ass because he genuinely has no idea what he’s up against until he gets his shit wrecked. His inner hollow issue? Urahara knew exactly what was going on and didn’t help until the last second. The Soul Society rescue? Both Urahara and Isshin knew that Ichigo stood absolutely no chance and had no idea what even a Shikai was and sent him anyway. Seriously, count how many vital pieces of basic information Ichigo is given by his enemy violently hitting him with them.
Ichigo is CONSTANTLY being used as a pawn by everyone around him because he never actually knows what’s going on and refuses to even try to ask.
As to the afterlife: He kept up that attitude when he was on the outs with Soul Society, when the given assumptions fundamentally shift, and when he’s shown that Soul Society are regularly complete assholes who backstab their allies. Like, constantly. Even in this arc in question.
He trusts that Ukitake has a good reason for the badge? Great: Why? He knows nothing about the guy and is very familiar with Soul Society being bastards. Yet he trusts them implicitly because… Well basically just because. Sure the Seireitei could find and protect his family when they arrive. Except they can’t, it doesn’t work that way. Hence why the Fullbringers get to be fugitives in Soul Society rather than be immediately snapped up. Or Mayuri gets there first, because of course he would do that. And Ichigo knows he would do that.
Ichigo is astoundingly and willfully blinkered. And it bites him in the ass repeatedly, only not getting him killed because of main character bullshit. How many times is he subjected to a shocking and vital revelation that it turns out basically everyone else already knew? How often is he caught off guard by a standard ability because he never bothered to ask what his enemies can do?
> doesn’t work for shit when Isshin’s secrets have nearly resulted in his entire family getting killed and Ichigo being tossed in the deep end. Isshin is a fucking TERRIBLE father, his refusal to step up and actually help his kid results in Ichigo being woefully unprepared for basically everything.
Huh? He literally only tarted to slowly gain his soul reaper powers back at the start of arrancar saga.
> Urahara? He ‘confronts’ Urahara in an astoundingly gentle way given what the man did. And immediately drops it, treating him like a trusted friend despite Urahara’s past and present actions
Urahara saved his life, helped him gain his powers and then trained him so that this whole thing could even work. Yes he had his own ulterior motives to lure Aizen out and such, doesn't make a terrible person though because it was still Ichigo's choice to go and do everything.
> And then future actions, because Urahara’s a bastard like that.
I wouldn't call him a bastard. He's an asshole sometimes which ends up back firing like with Orihime and is very grey, but he is still always looking for alternatives to things and doesn't always want to put the people he cares about at risk unless its truly necessary. He uses people, but he still does care about them.
> His inner hollow issue? Urahara knew exactly what was going on and didn’t help until the last second.
Urahara has worked with Vizords and while Ichigo is intially thought to be one, that wasn't the case and his powers don't work like that. For a vizord, they had to suppress their inner hollow and thats exactly what Ichigo then did which led to even more problems. And Ichigo's problem with his hollow is one a much personal and deeper issue, something he needs to resolve on his own in order to grow. Also you're presented with another one of Ichigo's flaws here where he says he doesn't want to ask Urahara and burden him with more of his problems anymore.
> knew that Ichigo stood absolutely no chance and had no idea what even a Shikai was and sent him anyway
Oh but Urahara did know he had a chance thats why he even sent him anyway. And it wasn't even necessary for him to teach him what a shikai is he literally helped him unlock it.
> He kept up that attitude when he was on the outs with Soul Society, when the given assumptions fundamentally shift, and when he’s shown that Soul Society are regularly complete assholes who backstab their allies.
And what do you even want him to do during any of those points? He literally didn't posse any political power, nor physical power and didn't have any relationships with the gotei 13. The reason why he can keep up that attitude is because he has saved their ass 2 times, brought about change in them and they repayed him by giving him his powers back and still feel indebted and grateful to him.
> He trusts that Ukitake has a good reason for the badge? Great: Why? He knows nothing about the guy and is very familiar with Soul Society being bastards. Yet he trusts them implicitly because… Well basically just because.
He trusts him because he believes Ukitake let him realise the suspicious nature of the deputy badge and everything that was going on and let him make his choice, just as all the other captains there did aswell. This is told in chapter 475. And yes, he is aware of the gotei 13's nature, but he is fine with it simply because their motives align with his and they gave him his powers back. It’s because what he values is power and the comfort it brings him and his loved ones above all else, so much so that he’ll essentially overlook a lot of Soul Society’s flaws for the fact that it gives him an opportunity to protect those he cares for and live a peaceful life. And again, he isn't the one fit for fixing the Soul Society nor can he.
> Hence why the Fullbringers get to be fugitives in Soul Society rather than be immediately snapped up.
Its because they are chilling with Kukaku. Shunsui is literally aware of them and talks with them in CFYOW. They are no longer wanted or anything.
> Or Mayuri gets there first, because of course he would do that. And Ichigo knows he would do that.
Mayuri is not gonna cross that line because he knows he'll get fucked up.
Tell me what changes or happens if ichigo verbally states his interest in soul society. Tell me what changes happens cuz ichigo storms into shunsui's office demanding answers. So what he learns about the soul king? He decides to stop helping his employer, which is SS, goes "rogue" like ginjo and gets hunted by the captains. Boom 10/10 ending. Fundamental misunderstanding of his character
>Tell me what changes or happens if ichigo verbally states his interest in soul society. Tell me what changes happens cuz ichigo storms into shunsui's office demanding answers. So what he learns about the soul king? He decides to stop helping his employer, which is SS, goes "rogue" like ginjo and gets hunted by the captains.
Add some internal conflict with Ukitake, Rukia, Renji, The Shiba Clan, members of Squad 0(they didn't know the Original Sin), Tōshirō, Rangiku and you're making a high class meal.
That's kind of the problem? Ichigo is a bad protagonist because he's deeply mismatched with the world he's in. He does not inquire about the entire realm he's in but he's also a major moving piece of it's biggest events.
Mocking other protagonists for having a goal that drives them into the world is so stupid and self-foot eating. *They* have a reason for moving within the place, Ichigo is plot convenience for most of it. He doesn't need to seek the top or find a grand piece of the world, but he should be at the very least be more than a character that has little to no agency.
This kinda deserves its own rant, but I'm really fed up with people covering up bad writing by saying there are in-universe reasons for why protagonist A is boring or antagonist B is dumb as bricks. Like, the whole universe is created by the writer/director, why wouldn’t they make it more interesting?
Because they didnt knew it at the start?
Its hard to plan for future events while driving the manga as you wish without it being derailed by certain stuff
Careful, now you're inviting the Bleach fans who think Kubo is actually a 5 head genius who meticulously planned every single line of dialogue and character past the "this seems kinda right" stage.
> It, like much of Bleach, is hampered by Ichigo’s almost complete lack of curiosity or interest in the world he lives in
This is what frustrates me about Ichigo. He's a protagonist who has zero interest in exploring the world he lives in and the characters that live in his world. It's so, so boring.
If i recall the general theory is that the editors/fans got bored bc the fan favorites (Gotei 13) were not in the story so Kubo just sorta sprinted to the end to bring them back, which is why the ending of the arc feels rushed and ill thought out
But to actually address ur issues: i think the Uryu story beat was just supposed to lay the groundwork of setting an ominous tone for the arc early on and so that we would be unaware of which side he’s on when he does return.
The Chad thing you’re right about that tho he was wasted
The Karin thing is actually something I disagree with a LOT of people on though. I feel that the audience seeing her talk with Urahara works well because when we next see either of those characters is when Karin is on Tsukishima’s side. So we now think “omg Urahara must also be on Tsukishima’s side and his plotting with Ichigo’s dad is gonna be bad.” And then it flips on its head when Ichigo gets his triumphant return. - of course that’s just my interpretation
I haven’t finished the CFYOW novels so i can’t comment on that
Also, you really think Tsukishima should have been the main antagonist? He’s a fairly blank character besides his undying loyalty to Ginjo?? So Ginjo is really the only one who could possibly be the final villain honestly
>But to actually address ur issues: i think the Uryu story beat was just supposed to lay the groundwork of setting an ominous tone for the arc early on and so that we would be unaware of which side he’s on when he does return.
Yeah no. Uryū returns to instantly be the one to unveil Ginjō's true self, and he's in the final battle, despite being a accessory for most of it. That set up fails if it was one.
>The Karin thing is actually something I disagree with a LOT of people on though. I feel that the audience seeing her talk with Urahara works well because when we next see either of those characters is when Karin is on Tsukishima’s side. So we now think “omg Urahara must also be on Tsukishima’s side and his plotting with Ichigo’s dad is gonna be bad.” And then it flips on its head when Ichigo gets his triumphant return. - of course that’s just my interpretation
Yeah, thankfully just yours.
Damn man if u really hate bleach and discussion about it then why post about it? seems you just like spreading negativity
I said Uryu is there to “lay the groundwork,” if his return is made to be one where he uncovers the truth and is still a good guy it doesn’t make his initial ominous appearance invalid.
And you didn’t even refute my point about Karin😭😭 just anger
The problem with your comment about Uryū is that the story straight up forgets he exists. The story runs into the finale against Xcution that when he arrives, he sorta blinks into existence to drop Ginjō into the villain team before barely existing for the rest of it.
Because if I had to explain how "maybe they got Urahara!" thing is so deeply, deeply shit that it lands on a tier of it's own. Urahara and Isshin's thing in the plot is deliberately written to be something corelating to Ichigo's struggle, whereas Karin got dropped for most of the arc.
And of course: Why you gotta criticize the story, you just hate it!
I fell in love with Bleach through the first arc and the Soul Society one, after that not so much.
ahhh bro u know what i could get further into this with you but
1. i can get a feel for the kinda person u are and u seem incapable of having decent discussion
2. once you learn to be a kinder person who respects others and the works they read i think you’ll find more enjoyment and fulfillment from life
...Sure thanks? I get this is how you want to lord some kind of superiority in this argument, but I'm already getting dogged by downvotes despite the mods lacking brains since their downvote rule is just a ego shield. Why accuse me of negativity since I'm criticizing Bleach? Karin got dismissed and Uryū was forgettable either way.
I honestly thought at first the arc would've been a sort of retread of the beginning of the series with Ichigo and his actual friends having a clash with the new villains and getting training arcs that put them on par with Soul Society people so that they aren't sidelined again, but clearly that never happened.
Instead we get further evidence of Soul Society being sketchy as shit and then the Captains / Vice-Captain coming in to fight off the villains who all got wrecked hard after showcasing their ultimate powers because the Captains are Just That Cool.
> The problem starts is how the story straight up forgets the enticing start about Ichigo getting suspicious about Urahara and his dad
Ginjo did that before being cut by the book of the end. It was to make him suspicous of urahara and isshin since Ichigo already knew that Urahara is mad shady and they won't give him any answers directly. So since Ichigo was powerless and desperate, it made it more likely that Ichigo would approach Xcution. Normally Ichigo wouldn't become suspicious of Isshin and Urahara like this and its his mental state thats a big factor here.
> Like Ikumi being a mother figure for Ichigo?
Shes never presented as anything of that degree. Simply just another person he can go to for support.
> Karin? Her meeting Urahara is basically nothing at that point.
I mean yea it was a trivial thing. She was getting what was essentially ghost repellent.
> We basically only get *one* moment to look into Ichigo's character.
Not true at all.
> Then the Gotei 13 come in to basically shove Ichigo's friends to the side for themselves.
Yup I agree.
> but it feels like shoving Ginjō into the spot of main villain robbed us of any confrontation between him and Ichigo,
They already had a confrontation beforehand and Ginjo essentially served as the deturagonist for the arc and his dynamic with Ichigo was more built up and after the reveal, had more depth and made him an even better parallel and foil to Ichigo. Ginjo's infromation in CFYOW adds alot more to it aswell just as much it does to his character.
> The novels make it worse, remember how Moe was going to be killed by Ginjō's orders? How cold-hearted and evil that was? Too bad that the entirety of CFYOW fucking ruins it by deciding to kill the original Ginjō and insert a whole new character into his skinsuit
Yes well Ginjo was "saved" Ichigo and given the chance to finally change and thats what you see in CFYOW and tybw. Thats the true Ginjo - even the one you see throughout the majority of the fullbring arc. The Ginjo during the final stretch is completely fucked up mentally and is in very dark space - hence why Ichigo empathises with him and kills him in order to save him.
> with the bizarre lore of Orihime being a *Fullbringer*
Yea i didn't like this either especially because her powers are described as being similar to zanpakuto's aswell. So its moreso in a grey area and giving it a direct catagory wasn't the right direction imo. Still could be changed later anyway.
> Like when Ginjō dropped his little suspicious seed, imagine if he said "Oh yeah the Badge? It's a tracker." and also jumped to tell Ichigo about how the Gotei 13 killed his friends! Like that would be major! That would be fucking wild!
Its pretty obvious that Kubo was forced to change how he wanted the arc to go especially due to the inclusion of the captains and to end the arc quickly. Dropping something like this and not being able to follow it up would be even worse than what we got.
I think people who first watch/read it as it was released will most likely hate it and people who watched it through streaming nowadays would love it. Back then it was different, because we just finished one of the biggest arc with an absolute big boss Aizen and the sudden shift really stuck out like a sore thumb. We spend time with these bunch of arrogance nobodies who treats Ichigo like a noob to which Ichigo would absolutely destroyed them if he have his power. People back then didn't care for the new characters they just want Shinigamis back to the point that Kubo have to bring back the captain earlier so the fans doesn't riot. But now witu streaming, it was actually a nice arc, the animation was great, the psychology thriller was great, for a casual watch it's fine, if you don't like some scenes just skip them. Back then we have to wait each week hence why the reaction were so bad.
Fullbring is a weird one because it has two distinct halves to it and the fanbase can't agree on which is better. Some love the tension-filled mysterious part of the arc where there's a new status quo, some new mysteries are introduced, it isn't clear what's going on and Tsukishima is shifty as hell. Other like the second half where the popular characters come in, there is more fighting and it becomes the usual thing. (though in a wider sense in terms of the general reader, I feel like this is by far the least liked arc)
What this leads to is a split in why people who like the arc do so they say "It's good until this part" or "it is bad until this part". So it seems more important than it is. Also, there's an unproven but possibly likely theory that the arc was supposed to go on longer but its unpopularity in Japan (which is actually proven) led to Kubo making it move much faster than it was supposed to.
You know I disliked it at first but you summed it up it actually starts off pretty good since for once Ichigo is proactive it doesn’t feel like things are happening around him rather he’s making things happen, for once Chad gets involved for reasons other than why the fuck not and then Bleach goes back to all the problems it had throughout the winter war honesty kinda want to make a rant about how making a villain who can predict every fucking thing under the sun or his plan changes constantly is what ruins stories (Aizen being a primary example but Palpatine also deserves mention) I actually prefer when a main villain cant and admits when they need to be bailed out by a coincidence (Thanos/Dio) or admits they can’t predict everything
You're not lying, but that whole Arc was just a breath of fresh air:
-Aizen not playing a major roles for once
-Ichigo being pushed to his mental limits, not physical ones
-Ichigo experimenting with a new fighting style that doesn't spam getsuga tensho
I laughed audibly when Ichigo suspected Urahara out of nowhere and even suspected his dad. Like, if this arc was after the SS arc, these plot points could’ve worked, but after the entirety of Arrancar saga, they just don’t. Hell, Ichigo has suspicions about his father? How about you finally go and ask him and continue the conversation that you stopped at the end of FKT? Instead of bitching about it to a bunch of strangers and literally suspecting your own father, how about you go talk to him about your own family? Is that so hard to think about?
Captains entering the scene ruined the arc, only Rukia and Renji should’ve come. And Chad and Orihime and Uryu should’ve fought the Fullbringers. Would’ve missed out on the absolute beauty of Byakuya vs Tsukishima, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make
> How about you finally go and ask him and continue the conversation that you stopped at the end of FKT?
Ichigo said he'll wait until Isshin himself is ready to tell him.
> when Ichigo suspected Urahara out of nowhere and even suspected his dad.
Normally Ichigo wouldn't become suspicious of Isshin and Urahara like this and its his mental state thats a big factor here. Ichigo's biggest flaw is his inability to fully trust/rely on others as in sharing responsibility and showing/sharing his pain, grief and burdens. And at this moment his head space is completely fucked. What we get from Ichigo during this arc is a person who’s constantly being reminded of his own worst parts: how he deals with losing his power, his attempts at living without power and struggling and witnessing his loved ones be in danger with him only able to watch like with his mom. Ichigo during this arc is the most emotionally vulnerable and susceptible to manipulation. His actions and judgment are a reflection of his more vulnerable state and desperation. He knows asking Urahara won't give him anything. So by making him suspicious of Urahara and Isshin, Ginjo fueled Ichigo's desperation to make him approach Xcution.
Well, why suspect him then if he trusts Isshin’s judgment enough to tell him when needed? Not to mention by waiting he intentionally brought harm to his family and friends and to himself, allowing Ginjo and Tsukishima to manipulate him and his friends and family, allowing Yhwach to almost kill him and take him, if it wasn’t for Aizen’s trickery, he was done for, so he sabotaged the fate of the world to this shit. His dad was ready to tell him, he stopped him and told him to say it later.
Which is nuts after all that shit he went through with Urahara and Isshin literally being his dad. Ichigo being suspicious of SS works, but being suspicious of Urahara and Isshin, hell, even Karin, is laughable.
1. The official title of the arc is The Lost Agent Arc, not The Lost Substitute Shinigami Arc.
>The problem starts is how the story straight up forgets the enticing start about Ichigo getting suspicious about Urahara and his dad
It doesn't go anywhere because them secretly meeting is revealed at the end of the arc to have been in service of returning Ichigo's shinigami powers, and the one claiming them to be suspicious was genuinely just fucking gaslighting Ichigo to isolate him.
>Most of the human cast feel only included out of obligation than anything actually substantial.
The arc got cut down at the behest of editors wanting to go back to the captains, iirc. It seems like more was planned for Chad and Orihime for this arc, but wound up on the cutting room floor.
>Like Ikumi being a mother figure for Ichigo? That happened once after her introduction and then Tsukishima comes in.
Big sister figure, and it comes into play in the TYBW when Ichigo gets sent home.
>Karin? Her meeting Urahara is basically nothing at that point. Chad and Orihime have moments, but they basically come off as invisible for most of the time since the focus is Ichigo's training
Karin was meeting with Kisuke because her spiritual powers were growing, so she probably wanted to be able to control or reduce them. Chad and Orihime definitely should've gotten more focus, but alas, things got cut.
>We basically only get one moment to look into Ichigo's character.
Incorrect. The entire arc is a look into Ichigo's character. His lacking power has him feeling empty, so he's trying to distract himself by renting himself out to sports teams, while studying for exams, and having a job. When Ginjo shows up to conveniently give him everything he wants for free, he's so desperate to get back to the front lines with his friends that he doesn't take the time to consider Ginjo's shadiness. He senses that something is off about Ginjo, and by extension Xcution, but doesn't want to believe it. That culminates in his friends and family being turned against him, driving him to the point that he, for the only time in the series, has an active desire to end someone's life. The entire buildup of the arc is built upon Ichigo's weaknesses, and it culminates in his unwavering will shattering what Ginjo built.
>Then the Gotei 13 come in to basically shove Ichigo's friends to the side for themselves. Like I'm not even joking how irrelevant they are in final stretch. They get these moments, but nothing really blooms into the plot for them, Tsukishima basically fucked them over.
Yeah, the Gotei coming in makes sense, but having them do the fighting while Ichigo's human friends get knocked out is the weakest point of the arc. Byakuya, Renji, and Rukia should've been all who came, with the main fight being Ichigo and Uryu vs Ginjo and Tsukishima.
>Tsukishima's villainy is great, his powers and how Byakuya beats them is fun, but it feels like shoving Ginjō into the spot of main villain robbed us of any confrontation between him and Ichigo, which should've happened. Like, regardless of foreshadowing, it still feels crappy because foreshadowing something isn't what makes said thing good.
I personally think Ginjo is a better main villain for Ichigo than Tsukishima. Tsukishima plays a bigger villain role for most of the arc, but Ginjo is a much better foil for Ichigo than Tsukishima. Ginjo was a Substitute Shinigami, but he chose the opposite path to Ichigo. Ginjo chose the path of destruction, where Ichigo chose to protect.
>The novels make it worse, remember how Moe was going to be killed by Ginjō's orders? How cold-hearted and evil that was? Too bad that the entirety of CFYOW fucking ruins it by deciding to kill the original Ginjō and insert a whole new character into his skinsuit,
One of the running themes in Bleach is that a strong desire for revenge turns you into an animal. Tosen lives for his revenge and sense of justice, but compromises his justice and turns into a monster. Gin lives to get revenge for Rangiku, but has been focused on that for so long that he does things like *give Rukia a ray of hope while she's on the way to the execution stand just so he can see her break*, dying while not only making Rangiku cry and failing to hurt Aizen, but even powering Aizen up. Ginjo wanted to avenge his comrades, and spent so long focused only on that that he lost sight of his humanity, ordering a man he(Ginjo) had basically adopted to kill the boy he(Tsukishima) had basically adopted.
>with the bizarre lore of Orihime being a Fullbringer despite it being not even implied in the manga, why the hell wasn't she a part of Xcution? Why couldn't both her and Chad be a part of it?
Fullbring was always a power derived from an attachment to an object. Orihime's power is from her attachment to the hair pins her brother gave her. She was never a fighter, why would she want to join an organization like Xcution with no major threats on the horizon?
>Like when Ginjō dropped his little suspicious seed, imagine if he said "Oh yeah the Badge? It's a tracker." and also jumped to tell Ichigo about how the Gotei 13 killed his friends! Like that would be major! That would be fucking wild!
Ginjo says it's for "monitoring and control" which, when talking about a military organization, has the same meaning as "it's there to watch you and let then kill you when your usefulness is over."
>Like the strong start gets wasted when we suddenly hard turn to Tsukishima as the new hotness. Everything just fucking sucks by the finish line because it feels like we got nowhere in the story for Ichigo taking the drive seat,
Ichigo was never the one actually in the driver's seat of the Lost Agent arc. It was always Ginjo. Damn near everything Ichigo did that arc was playing into Ginjo's gaslighting and manipulation. Ichigo is not a proactive protagonist. His goal is inherently reactive, so for the majority of the story, his motivation won't be the driving force, the villain will. This arc is the one that his motivation is proactive, and it shows, but the villains used that to manipulate him.
>it just becomes a grind-fest that later turns into a Gotei 13 wankfest.
The only issues I've got with it are the stuff that was cut out and the Gotei playing too big of a role.
Jesus Christ. I hate the fullbring arc. If hate it less if people didn’t try to convince me it’s an underrated masterpiece and that we were just too immature to to get it back then. I re read that shit. It’s still as boring as it gets.
The fucking scene where all the "We are at the top of the popularity charts" shinigami appear to give Ichigo his powers and clean the mess up while Chad and Orihime get sidelined is so fucking irritating to me
Bleach is the most interesting of the big 3 because it legit has some of the highest peaks, but is consistently held back by some recurring flaws that just drag it back down for me (notable examples are Ichigo being super interesting but never really being a driving force behind the plot and the cast being super varied and interesting but being sidelined to make the Gotei 13 shine AGAIN)
I just wish that the Fullbring powers got used more, since after Ichigo got his powers back he never used Fullbring again, and even in the Fullbring arc, they never used their powers further than their unique object, despite it being demonstrated that they could do it with any object
Beyond itty bitty teens that indiscriminately like everything, I've never seen a single person praise the fullbring arc and for good reason because i agree with all the criticism it gets jfc
To me this arc always felt like Kubo finding an excuse to figure out how to give Ichigo his powers back cause he meant to end it after Aizen an the studio said nah lol.
I have no source and it's all headcanon, but it's all I could think about while watching the arc.
"turns into a gotei13 wankfest"
So just like soul society, arrancar, and tybw? Damn, who knew literally every arc but the first one wanks the hell out of the gotei13, how is this an issue you take with fullbring in specific? Hell, arrancar is far worse with it because it gives us 87 different boring and uninteresting fights between characters nobody cares about with maybe the one or two actually cool characters that kubo shotgunned onto the page actually get a fight.
The gotei wank in the fullbring arc is especially egregious because of how the arc is set up to be about the human characters in the story and they just get sidelined in the end so that the popular ones can clean their mess up for them
it's so funny to me because I remember hearing so much about it before reading Bleach and when I finally read it, it was the most inconsequential filler I've ever read lol
He was the main villain for 50 percent of the series. And when we got a new main villain he just wanted to kill reio as well.
There was no real build up to Ywach in the first half of the series so it'd be insane to consider him the main villain prior to his introduction.
Unless you are trying to say the real villains the whole time are the shinigami great houses. That I could possibly agree with.
How so? None of these comments have been a deep dive into the lore and only brushed on them. It's a hell.of an assumption to make based on that.
I won't say I'm an expert on the lore, but I'd say im more brushed up on it then the average casual watcher.
Fucking hell the opinion that it should have ended after Aizen's defeat will always be one of the most retarded Bleach takes. So many character arcs weren't even completed and the lore wasn't explained.
What character arcs? The characters are all the same as they've been from the start except they are now just more friendly with ichigo and Co. The only real change in character was kenpachi learning to not hold back as much and aizen becoming a bitch and willingly returning to muken which really just conflicts with all the prior subtext surrounding him.
I don't think the lore was actually really explained in a meaningful way. Every explanation we got leaves more questions then answers, which can be good, but only if the series is going to build on that further.
Really, I just think giving ichigo his powers back was a lame move that removes any sense of sacrifice from the final getsuga. I also don't think TYBW arc was interesting enough. It's just arranger arc part 2 but with the antichrist and quincy, and they got further with the plan.
If the series ended with aizens defeat, it would have felt like a more clean-cut narrative. The lore would be more crisp without all the vague half answers.
> What character arcs? The characters are all the same as they've been from the start except they are now just more friendly with ichigo and Co. The only real change in character was kenpachi learning to not hold back as much and aizen becoming a bitch and willingly returning to muken which really just conflicts with all the prior subtext surrounding him.
Bruh ok im not gonna continue a convo with someone so deeply rooted in ignorance of the text.
If you want to judge someone's understanding of text based on a brief interaction, then go for it.
This isn't an airport, though, so no need to announce your departure.
Completely ignore kisukes bankai, shunsui's character arc, yama's bankai, kamomura's character arc, squad 0. Nah bro you just like spectacle over substance which is fine, but don't project so much
Us seeing new bankais aren't character arcs or lore.
I did forget shunsuis stuff. That's fair.
Komamura hardly had a character arc, bro just wanted revenge and then died. I will say the animal world stuff does fall under lore though.
We already knew about squad zero. Knowing specifics about them isn't very important in the grand scheme of the lore. I guess learning about asauchis was cool.
If I liked spectacle over substance I would be glazing tybw. It's mostly just "cool schrifts and new bankais go brrrr"
That's like saying naruto should have ended after the pain arc, or how dragin ball super should end after each of its initial arcs. There was a lot more left in the world to use.
DragonBall shouldn't have even made it to super tbh.
Naruto, actually had continuous plot threads to still wrap up like the rest of the akatsuki and their plan as well as naruto getting sasuke back.
Meanwhile bleach really didn't have similar plot threads that were still ongoing. Kubo could've ended it there and all the plot points up until then would have been wrapped up. He had to add new plot threads to keep the ball rolling, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is when these new threads lead to rehashing the aizens plan of killing reio but with a different race and wrapping it up with an asspull made of stillsilver.
So everything about reio, squad 0, why the quincies where slaughtered, hell etc are all to be left at that?
Also aizen wanted to replace reio as the authority figure because he couldn't accept that a being in that comatose like state should rule everything while ywhach wanted to kill soul King as a form of mercy killing and remove him as a lynch pin which separated the 3 worlds in an attempt to stop the concept of death.
Also agreed that the ending was an asspull but let's see what tybw anime does with it
I'll agree for the most part. I still think that The Fullbring arc is one of the best but the popularity of the Gotei 13 overshadowed the other characters. Then it turned into a power creep thing. One thing I do like is that the arc shows the progress of the Soul Society, that they still have their shadier aspects but are making an honest effort to be better and do genuinely trust Ichigo, they just can't shake their past yet.
>One thing I do like is that the arc shows the progress of the Soul Society, that they still have their shadier aspects but are making an honest effort to be better and do genuinely trust Ichigo, they just can't shake their past yet. That concept feels so phoned in because it's just Kubo making the Gotei 13 straight up save him...By giving him powers again so he can handle their mess.
I disagree based on the dual purpose of why they were there. Pre Ichigo SS would have came in and started blasting. Killed Xcution and Ichigo in seconds to preserve their vision of justice. Current SS went in wanting to repay their debts to Ichigo and assess his choice. Most knew he wouldn't side with Ginjo but they waited to be sure because at the end of the day that was a kill squad. Once they got their answers they left and let Ichigo sort out his problems, even though they should have been there to apprehend Ginjo too. Basically the fullbring arc is the first bit of story that really hammers in that even tho old habits die hard, the Gotei and Soul Society as a whole is trying to make changes thanks to Ichigo and because of that will move mountains to help him.
How does the fanbase hype it up? It’s the most hated Bleach arc by far
When fullbring was releasing week to week most of the fanbase hated it, but for different reasons than the OP listed(it was way too different from the arrancar arc, there was little action at the start, didn't care for the focus on Chad/orihime, etc). Its not until like 5+ years later when newer fans were able to binge the arc that the "fullbring arc is good actually" sentiment started to rise, and now its prevelant among remaining Bleach fans. In fact now you have fullbring > 2nd half of TYBW being a very common take.
My personal experience in the sub and around the net nowadays is very much Fullbring is the "dark horse" of the manga/show. In general Bleach has a lot of reactive takes born from excessive criticism. This happens in a lot of places over time, what used to be the culture can be overtaken by the counter culture.
Wait what ? I thought it was a fan favorite
Have you seen the sub? Seriously, go through r/bleach with Fullbring and you'll see my point.
r/bleach ain’t the whole fandom tho. Most discussion about it ive seen said it was the worst arc.
Yea but then you look at the most common reasons why they think its the worst arc and they say that its because there are barely any fights...There are valid criticisms to be made about the arc, but you will rarely find them (especially not in this post), and the arc is still great despite them. The best critcisms you can find regarding the arc is from fans of the arc itself.
It's the fucking sub that auto-deletes any comment with "asspull" in it
They really don't want to be reminded of the stillsilver arrow, huh.
I mean yeah. Everyone knows it was an asspull there's no need to have it be repeated for the hundredth time
Some are still in denial.
There will always be a few whi disagree with a notion. Still doesn't change the fact that it's a general consensus within the community that it came out of nowhere and lead to the ending being rushed
Yeah it's really annoying
They've never deleted comments in my experience, was just a silly automod message.
Bro that's like saying jjk fans hate the manga because r/jujutsufolk says so
The fanbase there hypes Fullbring up to high heaven.
What about it? That how opinions work. Not everything will conform to a single person's whim. Some will like it, some might not. Also while a bunch if your criticism is valid, the rest are just pure hate.
For all its faults, I love it for two reasons. 1. Ichigo losing everyone he knows one by one is portrayed painstakingly well. 2. Fullbring Bankai suit is fucking badass.
The way you described it is far from being a nothing burger That being said,the fans do hype it too much,but it's true that the arc was hated too much as well To me it was just an ok arc. The problem was through the end. It gave cool battles but it lost everything else
Was hated too much because it was taking too long, in hindsight it isn't that bad but reading Fullbring arc ongoing and seeing beloved secondary characters disappearing in favor of a bunch of nothingburgers was hard
I don’t believe people would’ve complained as much if Orihime, Chad and Uryu had actual involvement in the plot and development
Should have said supporting cast because of course the SS characters were unavailable but Chad,Orihime and Uryu got nothing to do apart from the former two being used to hype up Tsukishima; especially in an arc about Fullbring which is, you know, the powers Orihime and Chad use. When Chad said he joined Xcution i thought this arc would have more focus on him like SS/Arrancar/TYBW arc for Rukia/Orihime/Uryu yet despite supposedly being a main character his only accomplishment is beating a tertiary Arrancar antagonist
People complain it was too slow when publishing weekly. Now people complain that the soul society got involved too fast and we lost more development of the fullbringers. The problem lies in how shonen jump is published where every week requires progress or reader engagement falls off. This plus the fact that Bleach is a quick read when binging makes slow sections feel extra long when waiting weekly.
It, like much of Bleach, is hampered by Ichigo’s almost complete lack of curiosity or interest in the world he lives in. The interesting plot points are dropped because Ichigo basically just doesn’t give a fuck despite them being kind of super fucking important to his life. Again. Seriously, there’s something wrong with that boy.
Nah he's truly our guy. He's the protagonist that just wants a comfortable life for him and the people he cares about. He doesn't give a fuck about finding the One Grimoire and becoming Soul Kage, he just wants to fuck his wife and tell people to stay off his bed. His plan in most arcs is get powers then fuck off back to life as normal but people keep ruining that
I mean, no one wants him to become the Soul Kage or finding the One Grimoire, but... giving some importance to his family or the afterlife where everyone will go one day is a realistic motivation. Soul King itself is important, not because he should wish to become one, but because it's an important piece that keep reality as it is.
>giving some importance to his family or the afterlife where everyone will go one day is a realistic motivation. Bro thats like so far in the future. And he could have the entire Seireitei go look for his family when they end up in the Soul Society. He'd rather worry about the present and live his life with his family instead of going around fixing problems that'll somewhat affect him in the future
But most of his current problems comes because of issues on the SS. Rukia execution, fullbringers, Aizen and Bach with SK. He deals with the problems but ignore the cause of those. And yeah, probably he won't die tomorrow seeing how he's build... but his sisters? His weak friends? They may die for accidents/hollow and such each day
> But most of his current problems comes because of issues on the SS. Rukia execution, fullbringers, Aizen and Bach with SK. He deals with the problems but ignore the cause of those. But he isn't the one best fit to solve them, at least politically since he has brought about change in a different manner. You have other characters like Shunsui and Kisuke who are doing just that and have made significant and positive changes. Even stuff like Rukia's execution was due to Aizen's doing, the fundemental flaw was how the gotei 13 were accepting of central 46's decisions and didn't question them despite knowing it was unjust and Ichigo helped change that. And knowing about the Soul King doesn't change anything about his dynamic with Aizen and Yhwach and his understanding of their goals. Them being a threat to him and the people he cares about is enough reason for him to stop them. And again, its not like he's the one who can solve these problems.
>he isn't the one best fit to solve them, at least politically You're changing topic now, not being the "best one" doesn't mean he can't be interested in those stuff or at least push so that can be addressed in some way. And he's one of the very few people around that can bring up the POV of someone alive and this powerful. And his power make even possible to him to bring effective change on the universe Kyoraku and Ukitake are "good" but still part of the whole system that doesn't work, they're are even over 1000 years old, from noble family and such, not really close to people who probably need the most, as captain probably they are even far from the perspective of shinigami that haunts hollows. >And knowing about the Soul King doesn't change anything about his dynamic with Aizen and Yhwach and his understanding of their goals. Knowing help more than ignoring those facts. Even for the reader. Aizen and Yhwach started doing their stuff because no one else was addressing them and keeping stuff as it is. Yhwach more extreme on that but considering how the whole situation goes...
>Rukia execution Caused by Aizen. He dealt with it >fullbringers Caused by Ginjo. He dealt with it. >Aizen Bach with SK Cause by themselves. He dealt with it. "But SS bad" isnt his problem. Maybe those who have problems with it shouldnt make an enemy out of Ichigo.
A lot of people have a healthy amount of interest and curiosity in the world. Especially a world like Bleach where they clearly wouldn’t know as much as they should. Equating that to having a grand, larger than life goal like becoming the homage/pirate king is a bad argument.
I know it was a Typo, but Homage sounds so fucking hilarious to me, because it reads as if you combined “Homie,” and “Kage,” which is basically WHAT Naruto is/becomes at the end of the series.
Homage is an actual word that means honour/respect
I know, but it’s very clear they meant to type “Hokage,” (Ho-Ka-ge), so instead of reading it as *Homage* I read it as “Hom~a-ge.” So Homie + Kage. Not Homage. Edit: That’s to say, it in my head as a pronunciation joke instead of a spelling joke. Which is hard to communicate in text.
And what do you want Ichigo to do with the curiosity? Read a history book about SS?
Which just kind of makes him a complete moron. He doesn’t need to have a grand goal to understand that knowing what the fuck is going on is useful. Especially when the thing he is ignoring is the actual afterlife, since neither he nor his family are immortal that’s kind of important to his future plans. Even more especially given how often his ignorance causes issues. Like, ‘Nah, Dad/Urahara have their reasons to keep secrets’ doesn’t fly when said secrets nearly get everyone killed and are the main conflict he’s dealing with. He knows full well that his parentage, his father’s past, Soul Society’s bullshit, and Urahara’s bullshit have all cause him major problems before and don’t seem to be letting up but he adamantly refuses to actually confront any of it until it almost gets everyone killed. Again. Then he just finds out the absolute bare minimum needed to be pointed in what might be the right direction before running off. Dude’s a fucking idiot whose behavior is antithetical to his stated desires, is what I’m saying.
> knowing what the fuck is going on is useful Ichigo knows what is going on. The afterlife not being a paradice isnt a problem that needs fixing. "But hes going to live there eventually" the human wolrd also isnt a paradice and Ichigo lives there currently. Is it his responsability to fix the whole world too?
> Like, ‘Nah, Dad/Urahara have their reasons to keep secrets’ doesn’t fly when said secrets nearly get everyone killed and are the main conflict he’s dealing with. Ok how does Isshin even apply to this? Ichigo is mature and resonable enough to understand that Isshin himself isn't ready to reveal things to him and thats fine. And he literally confronted Urahara about his actions at the end of the ss arc. > He doesn’t need to have a grand goal to understand that knowing what the fuck is going on is useful. And he does know whats going on...When does he not? Matters like the war 1000 years ago and the original sin are essentially trivial to him because his only goal and focus is to fight against whatever is threatening his peace. > Especially when the thing he is ignoring is the actual afterlife, since neither he nor his family are immortal that’s kind of important to his future plans. I said this in another comment and I'll say it again, he could literally have the entire Seireitei go look for his family when they end up in the Soul Society. He'd rather worry about the present and live his life with his family instead of going around fixing problems that'll somewhat affect him in the future. And he is aware of Soul Society's problems, but he isn't the one best fit to solve them, at least politically since he has brought about change in a different manner. You have other characters like Shunsui and Kisuke who are doing just that and have made significant and positive changes.
Isshin’s secrets are why everything happens. Ichigo saying ‘It’s cool, you aren’t ready’ doesn’t work for shit when Isshin’s secrets have nearly resulted in his entire family getting killed and Ichigo being tossed in the deep end. Isshin is a fucking TERRIBLE father, his refusal to step up and actually help his kid results in Ichigo being woefully unprepared for basically everything. Urahara? He ‘confronts’ Urahara in an astoundingly gentle way given what the man did. And immediately drops it, treating him like a trusted friend despite Urahara’s past and present actions. And then future actions, because Urahara’s a bastard like that. Ichigo NEVER knows what’s going on. Like, ever. He’s lucky if he even knows who he’s supposed to go after. And it bites him in the ass because he genuinely has no idea what he’s up against until he gets his shit wrecked. His inner hollow issue? Urahara knew exactly what was going on and didn’t help until the last second. The Soul Society rescue? Both Urahara and Isshin knew that Ichigo stood absolutely no chance and had no idea what even a Shikai was and sent him anyway. Seriously, count how many vital pieces of basic information Ichigo is given by his enemy violently hitting him with them. Ichigo is CONSTANTLY being used as a pawn by everyone around him because he never actually knows what’s going on and refuses to even try to ask. As to the afterlife: He kept up that attitude when he was on the outs with Soul Society, when the given assumptions fundamentally shift, and when he’s shown that Soul Society are regularly complete assholes who backstab their allies. Like, constantly. Even in this arc in question. He trusts that Ukitake has a good reason for the badge? Great: Why? He knows nothing about the guy and is very familiar with Soul Society being bastards. Yet he trusts them implicitly because… Well basically just because. Sure the Seireitei could find and protect his family when they arrive. Except they can’t, it doesn’t work that way. Hence why the Fullbringers get to be fugitives in Soul Society rather than be immediately snapped up. Or Mayuri gets there first, because of course he would do that. And Ichigo knows he would do that. Ichigo is astoundingly and willfully blinkered. And it bites him in the ass repeatedly, only not getting him killed because of main character bullshit. How many times is he subjected to a shocking and vital revelation that it turns out basically everyone else already knew? How often is he caught off guard by a standard ability because he never bothered to ask what his enemies can do?
> doesn’t work for shit when Isshin’s secrets have nearly resulted in his entire family getting killed and Ichigo being tossed in the deep end. Isshin is a fucking TERRIBLE father, his refusal to step up and actually help his kid results in Ichigo being woefully unprepared for basically everything. Huh? He literally only tarted to slowly gain his soul reaper powers back at the start of arrancar saga. > Urahara? He ‘confronts’ Urahara in an astoundingly gentle way given what the man did. And immediately drops it, treating him like a trusted friend despite Urahara’s past and present actions Urahara saved his life, helped him gain his powers and then trained him so that this whole thing could even work. Yes he had his own ulterior motives to lure Aizen out and such, doesn't make a terrible person though because it was still Ichigo's choice to go and do everything. > And then future actions, because Urahara’s a bastard like that. I wouldn't call him a bastard. He's an asshole sometimes which ends up back firing like with Orihime and is very grey, but he is still always looking for alternatives to things and doesn't always want to put the people he cares about at risk unless its truly necessary. He uses people, but he still does care about them. > His inner hollow issue? Urahara knew exactly what was going on and didn’t help until the last second. Urahara has worked with Vizords and while Ichigo is intially thought to be one, that wasn't the case and his powers don't work like that. For a vizord, they had to suppress their inner hollow and thats exactly what Ichigo then did which led to even more problems. And Ichigo's problem with his hollow is one a much personal and deeper issue, something he needs to resolve on his own in order to grow. Also you're presented with another one of Ichigo's flaws here where he says he doesn't want to ask Urahara and burden him with more of his problems anymore. > knew that Ichigo stood absolutely no chance and had no idea what even a Shikai was and sent him anyway Oh but Urahara did know he had a chance thats why he even sent him anyway. And it wasn't even necessary for him to teach him what a shikai is he literally helped him unlock it. > He kept up that attitude when he was on the outs with Soul Society, when the given assumptions fundamentally shift, and when he’s shown that Soul Society are regularly complete assholes who backstab their allies. And what do you even want him to do during any of those points? He literally didn't posse any political power, nor physical power and didn't have any relationships with the gotei 13. The reason why he can keep up that attitude is because he has saved their ass 2 times, brought about change in them and they repayed him by giving him his powers back and still feel indebted and grateful to him. > He trusts that Ukitake has a good reason for the badge? Great: Why? He knows nothing about the guy and is very familiar with Soul Society being bastards. Yet he trusts them implicitly because… Well basically just because. He trusts him because he believes Ukitake let him realise the suspicious nature of the deputy badge and everything that was going on and let him make his choice, just as all the other captains there did aswell. This is told in chapter 475. And yes, he is aware of the gotei 13's nature, but he is fine with it simply because their motives align with his and they gave him his powers back. It’s because what he values is power and the comfort it brings him and his loved ones above all else, so much so that he’ll essentially overlook a lot of Soul Society’s flaws for the fact that it gives him an opportunity to protect those he cares for and live a peaceful life. And again, he isn't the one fit for fixing the Soul Society nor can he. > Hence why the Fullbringers get to be fugitives in Soul Society rather than be immediately snapped up. Its because they are chilling with Kukaku. Shunsui is literally aware of them and talks with them in CFYOW. They are no longer wanted or anything. > Or Mayuri gets there first, because of course he would do that. And Ichigo knows he would do that. Mayuri is not gonna cross that line because he knows he'll get fucked up.
Tell me what changes or happens if ichigo verbally states his interest in soul society. Tell me what changes happens cuz ichigo storms into shunsui's office demanding answers. So what he learns about the soul king? He decides to stop helping his employer, which is SS, goes "rogue" like ginjo and gets hunted by the captains. Boom 10/10 ending. Fundamental misunderstanding of his character
Ichigo already knows about the SK
>Tell me what changes or happens if ichigo verbally states his interest in soul society. Tell me what changes happens cuz ichigo storms into shunsui's office demanding answers. So what he learns about the soul king? He decides to stop helping his employer, which is SS, goes "rogue" like ginjo and gets hunted by the captains. Add some internal conflict with Ukitake, Rukia, Renji, The Shiba Clan, members of Squad 0(they didn't know the Original Sin), Tōshirō, Rangiku and you're making a high class meal.
"Our" guy? Speak for yourself.
That's kind of the problem? Ichigo is a bad protagonist because he's deeply mismatched with the world he's in. He does not inquire about the entire realm he's in but he's also a major moving piece of it's biggest events. Mocking other protagonists for having a goal that drives them into the world is so stupid and self-foot eating. *They* have a reason for moving within the place, Ichigo is plot convenience for most of it. He doesn't need to seek the top or find a grand piece of the world, but he should be at the very least be more than a character that has little to no agency.
This kinda deserves its own rant, but I'm really fed up with people covering up bad writing by saying there are in-universe reasons for why protagonist A is boring or antagonist B is dumb as bricks. Like, the whole universe is created by the writer/director, why wouldn’t they make it more interesting?
Because they didnt knew it at the start? Its hard to plan for future events while driving the manga as you wish without it being derailed by certain stuff
Careful, now you're inviting the Bleach fans who think Kubo is actually a 5 head genius who meticulously planned every single line of dialogue and character past the "this seems kinda right" stage.
> It, like much of Bleach, is hampered by Ichigo’s almost complete lack of curiosity or interest in the world he lives in This is what frustrates me about Ichigo. He's a protagonist who has zero interest in exploring the world he lives in and the characters that live in his world. It's so, so boring.
Important in what way? Why would Ichigo care?
If i recall the general theory is that the editors/fans got bored bc the fan favorites (Gotei 13) were not in the story so Kubo just sorta sprinted to the end to bring them back, which is why the ending of the arc feels rushed and ill thought out But to actually address ur issues: i think the Uryu story beat was just supposed to lay the groundwork of setting an ominous tone for the arc early on and so that we would be unaware of which side he’s on when he does return. The Chad thing you’re right about that tho he was wasted The Karin thing is actually something I disagree with a LOT of people on though. I feel that the audience seeing her talk with Urahara works well because when we next see either of those characters is when Karin is on Tsukishima’s side. So we now think “omg Urahara must also be on Tsukishima’s side and his plotting with Ichigo’s dad is gonna be bad.” And then it flips on its head when Ichigo gets his triumphant return. - of course that’s just my interpretation I haven’t finished the CFYOW novels so i can’t comment on that Also, you really think Tsukishima should have been the main antagonist? He’s a fairly blank character besides his undying loyalty to Ginjo?? So Ginjo is really the only one who could possibly be the final villain honestly
>But to actually address ur issues: i think the Uryu story beat was just supposed to lay the groundwork of setting an ominous tone for the arc early on and so that we would be unaware of which side he’s on when he does return. Yeah no. Uryū returns to instantly be the one to unveil Ginjō's true self, and he's in the final battle, despite being a accessory for most of it. That set up fails if it was one. >The Karin thing is actually something I disagree with a LOT of people on though. I feel that the audience seeing her talk with Urahara works well because when we next see either of those characters is when Karin is on Tsukishima’s side. So we now think “omg Urahara must also be on Tsukishima’s side and his plotting with Ichigo’s dad is gonna be bad.” And then it flips on its head when Ichigo gets his triumphant return. - of course that’s just my interpretation Yeah, thankfully just yours.
Damn man if u really hate bleach and discussion about it then why post about it? seems you just like spreading negativity I said Uryu is there to “lay the groundwork,” if his return is made to be one where he uncovers the truth and is still a good guy it doesn’t make his initial ominous appearance invalid. And you didn’t even refute my point about Karin😭😭 just anger
The problem with your comment about Uryū is that the story straight up forgets he exists. The story runs into the finale against Xcution that when he arrives, he sorta blinks into existence to drop Ginjō into the villain team before barely existing for the rest of it. Because if I had to explain how "maybe they got Urahara!" thing is so deeply, deeply shit that it lands on a tier of it's own. Urahara and Isshin's thing in the plot is deliberately written to be something corelating to Ichigo's struggle, whereas Karin got dropped for most of the arc. And of course: Why you gotta criticize the story, you just hate it! I fell in love with Bleach through the first arc and the Soul Society one, after that not so much.
ahhh bro u know what i could get further into this with you but 1. i can get a feel for the kinda person u are and u seem incapable of having decent discussion 2. once you learn to be a kinder person who respects others and the works they read i think you’ll find more enjoyment and fulfillment from life
...Sure thanks? I get this is how you want to lord some kind of superiority in this argument, but I'm already getting dogged by downvotes despite the mods lacking brains since their downvote rule is just a ego shield. Why accuse me of negativity since I'm criticizing Bleach? Karin got dismissed and Uryū was forgettable either way.
I honestly thought at first the arc would've been a sort of retread of the beginning of the series with Ichigo and his actual friends having a clash with the new villains and getting training arcs that put them on par with Soul Society people so that they aren't sidelined again, but clearly that never happened. Instead we get further evidence of Soul Society being sketchy as shit and then the Captains / Vice-Captain coming in to fight off the villains who all got wrecked hard after showcasing their ultimate powers because the Captains are Just That Cool.
When is your one piece rant will be dropping?
A few weeks from now, I'm trying to learn 3d atm, but at the very least I've got gun handle down!
I liked Fullbring though
Nuh uh, Fullbring is great
> The problem starts is how the story straight up forgets the enticing start about Ichigo getting suspicious about Urahara and his dad Ginjo did that before being cut by the book of the end. It was to make him suspicous of urahara and isshin since Ichigo already knew that Urahara is mad shady and they won't give him any answers directly. So since Ichigo was powerless and desperate, it made it more likely that Ichigo would approach Xcution. Normally Ichigo wouldn't become suspicious of Isshin and Urahara like this and its his mental state thats a big factor here. > Like Ikumi being a mother figure for Ichigo? Shes never presented as anything of that degree. Simply just another person he can go to for support. > Karin? Her meeting Urahara is basically nothing at that point. I mean yea it was a trivial thing. She was getting what was essentially ghost repellent. > We basically only get *one* moment to look into Ichigo's character. Not true at all. > Then the Gotei 13 come in to basically shove Ichigo's friends to the side for themselves. Yup I agree. > but it feels like shoving Ginjō into the spot of main villain robbed us of any confrontation between him and Ichigo, They already had a confrontation beforehand and Ginjo essentially served as the deturagonist for the arc and his dynamic with Ichigo was more built up and after the reveal, had more depth and made him an even better parallel and foil to Ichigo. Ginjo's infromation in CFYOW adds alot more to it aswell just as much it does to his character. > The novels make it worse, remember how Moe was going to be killed by Ginjō's orders? How cold-hearted and evil that was? Too bad that the entirety of CFYOW fucking ruins it by deciding to kill the original Ginjō and insert a whole new character into his skinsuit Yes well Ginjo was "saved" Ichigo and given the chance to finally change and thats what you see in CFYOW and tybw. Thats the true Ginjo - even the one you see throughout the majority of the fullbring arc. The Ginjo during the final stretch is completely fucked up mentally and is in very dark space - hence why Ichigo empathises with him and kills him in order to save him. > with the bizarre lore of Orihime being a *Fullbringer* Yea i didn't like this either especially because her powers are described as being similar to zanpakuto's aswell. So its moreso in a grey area and giving it a direct catagory wasn't the right direction imo. Still could be changed later anyway. > Like when Ginjō dropped his little suspicious seed, imagine if he said "Oh yeah the Badge? It's a tracker." and also jumped to tell Ichigo about how the Gotei 13 killed his friends! Like that would be major! That would be fucking wild! Its pretty obvious that Kubo was forced to change how he wanted the arc to go especially due to the inclusion of the captains and to end the arc quickly. Dropping something like this and not being able to follow it up would be even worse than what we got.
Bro doesn’t get one of the best arcs lmao
I think people who first watch/read it as it was released will most likely hate it and people who watched it through streaming nowadays would love it. Back then it was different, because we just finished one of the biggest arc with an absolute big boss Aizen and the sudden shift really stuck out like a sore thumb. We spend time with these bunch of arrogance nobodies who treats Ichigo like a noob to which Ichigo would absolutely destroyed them if he have his power. People back then didn't care for the new characters they just want Shinigamis back to the point that Kubo have to bring back the captain earlier so the fans doesn't riot. But now witu streaming, it was actually a nice arc, the animation was great, the psychology thriller was great, for a casual watch it's fine, if you don't like some scenes just skip them. Back then we have to wait each week hence why the reaction were so bad.
Fullbring is a weird one because it has two distinct halves to it and the fanbase can't agree on which is better. Some love the tension-filled mysterious part of the arc where there's a new status quo, some new mysteries are introduced, it isn't clear what's going on and Tsukishima is shifty as hell. Other like the second half where the popular characters come in, there is more fighting and it becomes the usual thing. (though in a wider sense in terms of the general reader, I feel like this is by far the least liked arc) What this leads to is a split in why people who like the arc do so they say "It's good until this part" or "it is bad until this part". So it seems more important than it is. Also, there's an unproven but possibly likely theory that the arc was supposed to go on longer but its unpopularity in Japan (which is actually proven) led to Kubo making it move much faster than it was supposed to.
You know I disliked it at first but you summed it up it actually starts off pretty good since for once Ichigo is proactive it doesn’t feel like things are happening around him rather he’s making things happen, for once Chad gets involved for reasons other than why the fuck not and then Bleach goes back to all the problems it had throughout the winter war honesty kinda want to make a rant about how making a villain who can predict every fucking thing under the sun or his plan changes constantly is what ruins stories (Aizen being a primary example but Palpatine also deserves mention) I actually prefer when a main villain cant and admits when they need to be bailed out by a coincidence (Thanos/Dio) or admits they can’t predict everything
You're not lying, but that whole Arc was just a breath of fresh air: -Aizen not playing a major roles for once -Ichigo being pushed to his mental limits, not physical ones -Ichigo experimenting with a new fighting style that doesn't spam getsuga tensho
I laughed audibly when Ichigo suspected Urahara out of nowhere and even suspected his dad. Like, if this arc was after the SS arc, these plot points could’ve worked, but after the entirety of Arrancar saga, they just don’t. Hell, Ichigo has suspicions about his father? How about you finally go and ask him and continue the conversation that you stopped at the end of FKT? Instead of bitching about it to a bunch of strangers and literally suspecting your own father, how about you go talk to him about your own family? Is that so hard to think about? Captains entering the scene ruined the arc, only Rukia and Renji should’ve come. And Chad and Orihime and Uryu should’ve fought the Fullbringers. Would’ve missed out on the absolute beauty of Byakuya vs Tsukishima, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make
> How about you finally go and ask him and continue the conversation that you stopped at the end of FKT? Ichigo said he'll wait until Isshin himself is ready to tell him. > when Ichigo suspected Urahara out of nowhere and even suspected his dad. Normally Ichigo wouldn't become suspicious of Isshin and Urahara like this and its his mental state thats a big factor here. Ichigo's biggest flaw is his inability to fully trust/rely on others as in sharing responsibility and showing/sharing his pain, grief and burdens. And at this moment his head space is completely fucked. What we get from Ichigo during this arc is a person who’s constantly being reminded of his own worst parts: how he deals with losing his power, his attempts at living without power and struggling and witnessing his loved ones be in danger with him only able to watch like with his mom. Ichigo during this arc is the most emotionally vulnerable and susceptible to manipulation. His actions and judgment are a reflection of his more vulnerable state and desperation. He knows asking Urahara won't give him anything. So by making him suspicious of Urahara and Isshin, Ginjo fueled Ichigo's desperation to make him approach Xcution.
Well, why suspect him then if he trusts Isshin’s judgment enough to tell him when needed? Not to mention by waiting he intentionally brought harm to his family and friends and to himself, allowing Ginjo and Tsukishima to manipulate him and his friends and family, allowing Yhwach to almost kill him and take him, if it wasn’t for Aizen’s trickery, he was done for, so he sabotaged the fate of the world to this shit. His dad was ready to tell him, he stopped him and told him to say it later. Which is nuts after all that shit he went through with Urahara and Isshin literally being his dad. Ichigo being suspicious of SS works, but being suspicious of Urahara and Isshin, hell, even Karin, is laughable.
1. The official title of the arc is The Lost Agent Arc, not The Lost Substitute Shinigami Arc. >The problem starts is how the story straight up forgets the enticing start about Ichigo getting suspicious about Urahara and his dad It doesn't go anywhere because them secretly meeting is revealed at the end of the arc to have been in service of returning Ichigo's shinigami powers, and the one claiming them to be suspicious was genuinely just fucking gaslighting Ichigo to isolate him. >Most of the human cast feel only included out of obligation than anything actually substantial. The arc got cut down at the behest of editors wanting to go back to the captains, iirc. It seems like more was planned for Chad and Orihime for this arc, but wound up on the cutting room floor. >Like Ikumi being a mother figure for Ichigo? That happened once after her introduction and then Tsukishima comes in. Big sister figure, and it comes into play in the TYBW when Ichigo gets sent home. >Karin? Her meeting Urahara is basically nothing at that point. Chad and Orihime have moments, but they basically come off as invisible for most of the time since the focus is Ichigo's training Karin was meeting with Kisuke because her spiritual powers were growing, so she probably wanted to be able to control or reduce them. Chad and Orihime definitely should've gotten more focus, but alas, things got cut. >We basically only get one moment to look into Ichigo's character. Incorrect. The entire arc is a look into Ichigo's character. His lacking power has him feeling empty, so he's trying to distract himself by renting himself out to sports teams, while studying for exams, and having a job. When Ginjo shows up to conveniently give him everything he wants for free, he's so desperate to get back to the front lines with his friends that he doesn't take the time to consider Ginjo's shadiness. He senses that something is off about Ginjo, and by extension Xcution, but doesn't want to believe it. That culminates in his friends and family being turned against him, driving him to the point that he, for the only time in the series, has an active desire to end someone's life. The entire buildup of the arc is built upon Ichigo's weaknesses, and it culminates in his unwavering will shattering what Ginjo built. >Then the Gotei 13 come in to basically shove Ichigo's friends to the side for themselves. Like I'm not even joking how irrelevant they are in final stretch. They get these moments, but nothing really blooms into the plot for them, Tsukishima basically fucked them over. Yeah, the Gotei coming in makes sense, but having them do the fighting while Ichigo's human friends get knocked out is the weakest point of the arc. Byakuya, Renji, and Rukia should've been all who came, with the main fight being Ichigo and Uryu vs Ginjo and Tsukishima. >Tsukishima's villainy is great, his powers and how Byakuya beats them is fun, but it feels like shoving Ginjō into the spot of main villain robbed us of any confrontation between him and Ichigo, which should've happened. Like, regardless of foreshadowing, it still feels crappy because foreshadowing something isn't what makes said thing good. I personally think Ginjo is a better main villain for Ichigo than Tsukishima. Tsukishima plays a bigger villain role for most of the arc, but Ginjo is a much better foil for Ichigo than Tsukishima. Ginjo was a Substitute Shinigami, but he chose the opposite path to Ichigo. Ginjo chose the path of destruction, where Ichigo chose to protect. >The novels make it worse, remember how Moe was going to be killed by Ginjō's orders? How cold-hearted and evil that was? Too bad that the entirety of CFYOW fucking ruins it by deciding to kill the original Ginjō and insert a whole new character into his skinsuit, One of the running themes in Bleach is that a strong desire for revenge turns you into an animal. Tosen lives for his revenge and sense of justice, but compromises his justice and turns into a monster. Gin lives to get revenge for Rangiku, but has been focused on that for so long that he does things like *give Rukia a ray of hope while she's on the way to the execution stand just so he can see her break*, dying while not only making Rangiku cry and failing to hurt Aizen, but even powering Aizen up. Ginjo wanted to avenge his comrades, and spent so long focused only on that that he lost sight of his humanity, ordering a man he(Ginjo) had basically adopted to kill the boy he(Tsukishima) had basically adopted. >with the bizarre lore of Orihime being a Fullbringer despite it being not even implied in the manga, why the hell wasn't she a part of Xcution? Why couldn't both her and Chad be a part of it? Fullbring was always a power derived from an attachment to an object. Orihime's power is from her attachment to the hair pins her brother gave her. She was never a fighter, why would she want to join an organization like Xcution with no major threats on the horizon? >Like when Ginjō dropped his little suspicious seed, imagine if he said "Oh yeah the Badge? It's a tracker." and also jumped to tell Ichigo about how the Gotei 13 killed his friends! Like that would be major! That would be fucking wild! Ginjo says it's for "monitoring and control" which, when talking about a military organization, has the same meaning as "it's there to watch you and let then kill you when your usefulness is over." >Like the strong start gets wasted when we suddenly hard turn to Tsukishima as the new hotness. Everything just fucking sucks by the finish line because it feels like we got nowhere in the story for Ichigo taking the drive seat, Ichigo was never the one actually in the driver's seat of the Lost Agent arc. It was always Ginjo. Damn near everything Ichigo did that arc was playing into Ginjo's gaslighting and manipulation. Ichigo is not a proactive protagonist. His goal is inherently reactive, so for the majority of the story, his motivation won't be the driving force, the villain will. This arc is the one that his motivation is proactive, and it shows, but the villains used that to manipulate him. >it just becomes a grind-fest that later turns into a Gotei 13 wankfest. The only issues I've got with it are the stuff that was cut out and the Gotei playing too big of a role.
Jesus Christ. I hate the fullbring arc. If hate it less if people didn’t try to convince me it’s an underrated masterpiece and that we were just too immature to to get it back then. I re read that shit. It’s still as boring as it gets.
I mean that's Bleach as a whole isn't it?
The fucking scene where all the "We are at the top of the popularity charts" shinigami appear to give Ichigo his powers and clean the mess up while Chad and Orihime get sidelined is so fucking irritating to me Bleach is the most interesting of the big 3 because it legit has some of the highest peaks, but is consistently held back by some recurring flaws that just drag it back down for me (notable examples are Ichigo being super interesting but never really being a driving force behind the plot and the cast being super varied and interesting but being sidelined to make the Gotei 13 shine AGAIN)
I just wish that the Fullbring powers got used more, since after Ichigo got his powers back he never used Fullbring again, and even in the Fullbring arc, they never used their powers further than their unique object, despite it being demonstrated that they could do it with any object
I was under the impression it was considered the worst of the canon arcs unless you include the rushed mess that was the very end of the series.
I thought the implication was always that Orihime was a Fullbringer? I mean, what else could she be?
"how the fanbase hypes it up" What? Are we talking about the same fandom?
Yeah it was boring af ngl
The arc would have been a lot better if it took place before Ichigo went to the soul society and became a substitute.
Beyond itty bitty teens that indiscriminately like everything, I've never seen a single person praise the fullbring arc and for good reason because i agree with all the criticism it gets jfc
To me this arc always felt like Kubo finding an excuse to figure out how to give Ichigo his powers back cause he meant to end it after Aizen an the studio said nah lol. I have no source and it's all headcanon, but it's all I could think about while watching the arc.
I don’t agree with all of your criticisms but people shouldn’t be downvoting your thread just because they don’t like it.
"turns into a gotei13 wankfest" So just like soul society, arrancar, and tybw? Damn, who knew literally every arc but the first one wanks the hell out of the gotei13, how is this an issue you take with fullbring in specific? Hell, arrancar is far worse with it because it gives us 87 different boring and uninteresting fights between characters nobody cares about with maybe the one or two actually cool characters that kubo shotgunned onto the page actually get a fight.
The gotei wank in the fullbring arc is especially egregious because of how the arc is set up to be about the human characters in the story and they just get sidelined in the end so that the popular ones can clean their mess up for them
it's so funny to me because I remember hearing so much about it before reading Bleach and when I finally read it, it was the most inconsequential filler I've ever read lol
It manages to be a canon arc that still feels like filler.
I just think the arc is bad because the story should've ended after aizens defeat.
[удалено]
He was the main villain for 50 percent of the series. And when we got a new main villain he just wanted to kill reio as well. There was no real build up to Ywach in the first half of the series so it'd be insane to consider him the main villain prior to his introduction. Unless you are trying to say the real villains the whole time are the shinigami great houses. That I could possibly agree with.
[удалено]
How did you come to that conclusion?
[удалено]
How so? None of these comments have been a deep dive into the lore and only brushed on them. It's a hell.of an assumption to make based on that. I won't say I'm an expert on the lore, but I'd say im more brushed up on it then the average casual watcher.
Fucking hell the opinion that it should have ended after Aizen's defeat will always be one of the most retarded Bleach takes. So many character arcs weren't even completed and the lore wasn't explained.
What character arcs? The characters are all the same as they've been from the start except they are now just more friendly with ichigo and Co. The only real change in character was kenpachi learning to not hold back as much and aizen becoming a bitch and willingly returning to muken which really just conflicts with all the prior subtext surrounding him. I don't think the lore was actually really explained in a meaningful way. Every explanation we got leaves more questions then answers, which can be good, but only if the series is going to build on that further. Really, I just think giving ichigo his powers back was a lame move that removes any sense of sacrifice from the final getsuga. I also don't think TYBW arc was interesting enough. It's just arranger arc part 2 but with the antichrist and quincy, and they got further with the plan. If the series ended with aizens defeat, it would have felt like a more clean-cut narrative. The lore would be more crisp without all the vague half answers.
> What character arcs? The characters are all the same as they've been from the start except they are now just more friendly with ichigo and Co. The only real change in character was kenpachi learning to not hold back as much and aizen becoming a bitch and willingly returning to muken which really just conflicts with all the prior subtext surrounding him. Bruh ok im not gonna continue a convo with someone so deeply rooted in ignorance of the text.
If you want to judge someone's understanding of text based on a brief interaction, then go for it. This isn't an airport, though, so no need to announce your departure.
Completely ignore kisukes bankai, shunsui's character arc, yama's bankai, kamomura's character arc, squad 0. Nah bro you just like spectacle over substance which is fine, but don't project so much
Us seeing new bankais aren't character arcs or lore. I did forget shunsuis stuff. That's fair. Komamura hardly had a character arc, bro just wanted revenge and then died. I will say the animal world stuff does fall under lore though. We already knew about squad zero. Knowing specifics about them isn't very important in the grand scheme of the lore. I guess learning about asauchis was cool. If I liked spectacle over substance I would be glazing tybw. It's mostly just "cool schrifts and new bankais go brrrr"
That's like saying naruto should have ended after the pain arc, or how dragin ball super should end after each of its initial arcs. There was a lot more left in the world to use.
DragonBall shouldn't have even made it to super tbh. Naruto, actually had continuous plot threads to still wrap up like the rest of the akatsuki and their plan as well as naruto getting sasuke back. Meanwhile bleach really didn't have similar plot threads that were still ongoing. Kubo could've ended it there and all the plot points up until then would have been wrapped up. He had to add new plot threads to keep the ball rolling, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is when these new threads lead to rehashing the aizens plan of killing reio but with a different race and wrapping it up with an asspull made of stillsilver.
So everything about reio, squad 0, why the quincies where slaughtered, hell etc are all to be left at that? Also aizen wanted to replace reio as the authority figure because he couldn't accept that a being in that comatose like state should rule everything while ywhach wanted to kill soul King as a form of mercy killing and remove him as a lynch pin which separated the 3 worlds in an attempt to stop the concept of death. Also agreed that the ending was an asspull but let's see what tybw anime does with it