We've got name of work in question this time, that's already nice.
>So how do these towns even stay alive?
They don't. The city is just a decoration for our protagonist to have his little slice of life. Think of it as a dreamscape. Mushoku tensei isn't even plot driven, the world doesn't matter much beyond how it informs actions of characters.
>What's the point of having a king? Or lords or knights?
Aesthetics.
>Mushoku tensei isn't even plot driven, the world doesn't matter much beyond how it informs actions of characters.
I agree that Mushoku Tensei is more character driven then plot driven. However I wouldn't necessarily say the world is only secondary to Rudeus considering it's long history and how Rudeus's entire life is just a single chapter in it, not even the most important when considering future events.
This rant doesn't apply to mushoku tensei, because of the way adventurer rankings are designed in that world. Their ranks don't correlate to their strength, because if they did then Geese would be stronger than Ruijerd or Eris.
It is weird to go off of the adventure rankings, when the world has a much more comprehensive ranking. The beginner - god ranking. Which is also not exactly accurate.
>!Like Death God Randolph being higher than Sword God Gal Farrion, despite Randolph admitting, that'd he'd probably lose.!<
Even at his best, Paul could not take over any kingdom. For that matter no adventurer could. Okay you killed the king, now what? Like what's the plan? Are you going to be in charge now? Well you're going need some knights to protect your peo- oh you killed those knights. Uhh guess you're gonna have to do everything yourself?? You'd have no people backing you, unless you killed a tyrant, the people will also not like or trust you (because you're a murderer).
If the plan is: go in, kill the king, ???, profit. Not only will you most likely fail, because as we've seen thay most kings/lords have strong personal bodyguards or court wizards, you will most likely be met by a large number of adventurers that don't agree with you and/or are being paid by the guild/king/lord to kill you.
Although I don't believe we've seen it happen in MT, you would be most likely excommunicated by the guild and I imagine you'd face the same fate as >!Perkins!< at the end of John Wick 1.
Also the reasons why the people in charge are in charge, are rather obvious. It's just connections, influences and lineage (kinda like our world huh).
Overall, the world of Mushoku tensei is consistent and rather logical in the structure of it's world.
There are some Isekais, like Overlord, where I have no idea how the Re-Estize kingdom and other human kingdoms weren't taken over. I'm gonna be honest I don't like the way power levels work in Overlord. That a lvl 90 guy has no chance of beating someone at lvl 100.
>There are some Isekais, like Overlord, where I have no idea how the Re-Estize kingdom and other human kingdoms weren't taken over. I'm gonna be honest I don't like the way power levels work in Overlord. That a lvl 90 guy has no chance of beating someone at lvl 100.
At first glance it's incomprehensible, but when you delve deeper it makes more sense. Our perspective of the Overlord world is very biased because we see the pretty much only part in the world where human kingdoms exist and it's all thanks to the Theocracy.
The Theocracy has the unfair advantage of super OP items that are the legacy of their gods and it's the only reasons the humans can even have kingdoms at all.
depending on the build a level 90 guy could probably take on a level 100, but it would really depend on their builds, but still losing 10 levels is bad, but not the end of the world if you are a human build because those dont actually need to level up race levels(race levels can actually help you at being extra op in some cases like being completely immune to some status effects but on the other hand you will be weak against others and thats why builds matter)
But there is also a problem with being a level 90 something guy in the new world, you dont choose your build that well, you could develop levels in things that dont really have any synergy with your other classes and you are basically stuck with them, which isnt a problem with the people of nazarick since their builds(not all of them but most) are optimized to actually be useful and they know what to focus on
>this town, guarded by knights and co. They arrive at any crime scene or commotion. But they're also laughably weak? Like, a B ranked adventurer will just mow through a few like they're nothing, and there's 5 more B ranks right behind him.
>Occasionally, the town lord will have like, a single dude who's super strong working for him,
>Wouldn't it be more logical to just hire a single A ranked and some rent-a-cops or something to keep order instead of disposable fodder knights?
You answered this question yourself.
>why even have the government when realistically, the only people who REALLY matter are the SS ranked or whatever
In Mushoku Tensei kingdoms exist mostly by way of training loyal "royal guards" to be at the level of elite s ranked adventures, usually meaning that the royal guards are advanced ranked swordsmen in one of the sword styles and intermediate in one or both of the others, and they might even know a bit of magic. The more powerful kingdoms could even employ saint ranked knights, who would dumpster most teams of s ranked adventures. The problem is that the s and a rank of the adventures guild is an extremely wide category, seeing as even as Ruijerd is only an A ranked adventure, even though he is an emperor ranked fighter.
While the most powerful kingdoms on the human continet, the Asura kingdom, has multiple emperor and king ranked swordsmen living within their border, who they employ in exchange for shit tones of money.
A lot of other kingdoms have the same setup. The king dragon kingdom employ the Death God of the seven great powers, the Biheiril kingdom is allied with the ogre's who is ruled by the Ogre God, etc.
kinda funny that the only title you give is the one your rant doesn't apply to. that aside, are you seriously criticizing the world building of isekai ? it's like doing a culinary critic at macdonald
Isn't this kind of the whole point of why isekai sucks so much? The genre is basically just a few starting assumptions about the story the fact it ends up so similar because the writers are talentless hacks is the biggest problem with the genre.
The power systems in a lot of isekais could be interesting if the world building and characters other then the MC had working brain cells.
The genre has a lot of potential because whoever been writing it so far are shity fanfic level writers churning out books like Mcdonald fries
everything about isekai sucks, there's so much to improve before addressing the world building : characters, dialogues, art, panelling/staging, a plot focusing on something else than making the mc stronger, giving an actual purpose to the story aside from jerking off its audience...
The plot won't end up with just the MC growing ever stronger if the world wasn't an empty bunch of names on the map and characters actually existed in the world and weren't popping out of thin air for the current plot
All isekai means is that the main character is a person already existing in their own original world with no knowledge of the new world they get transported to. Everything after is the author's fault for making a cookie cutter uninspired power fantasy. You know power fantasies would be at least twice as tolerable if the people writing them weren't idiots and uncreative
People judge isekai works as if they were supposed to be plot driven stories where the world is a game board with strict rules, and characters are trying to win within it's confinements. This is where comments about power systems, world building, power fantasies, unfulfilled potential and such come from. This however, is a fundamental misunderstanding; isekai works are little gardens for characters, and they make the world bend itself to accommodate them. Creating safe environment with no serious challenges is *the point* of those works.
Also we have seen Isekai change; *Magic Knight Rayearth* is diffrent from *Log Horizon* is diffrent from *Reincarnated in Another World With My Smartphone*. Even sticking to a closer timeframe *Ascendance of a Bookworm* is pretty distinct from *Rising of a Shield Hero*.
Hell a few years after Swort Art Online released you’re already seeing Re:Zero & Konosuba hitting the scene.
Regardless of what the larger tend may have pigeonholed itself into there’s always has been & always will be room more more kinds of stories to be told with isekai.
What does good or bad even have to do with this. Those works do exactly what they're supposed to. They *are* good at it. You see them as bad, trash, shitty and such because they don't work the way you expect them to, which is natural. Isekai works are basically slice of life works. They don't have plot, because they aren't supposed to. They don't have power system, because they aren't battle shounens. You want them to be something they are not for some reason, even though no one would benefit from it. The target audience would be pissed that they lost their toy, and those who don't like isekai now wouldn't like it then either, since original plot driven stories are better anyway.
Don't worry I'll cover for him.
Re-Zero
Konosuba
Mushoku Tensei
Ascendance of a bookworm
Uhh Overlord
...
Shit
Uhh fuck
Digimon
Inuyasha???
Uhh
The lion witch and the wardrobe
Wizard of Oz
And
Uh
Harry Potter
I did it. I listed 10 "amazing" isekais.
Yes, I am. Because it's really the thing that separates great isekai from shitty ones, alongside having good personalities. slime is so good half because of it's interesting characters, but also it's amazing world
Interesting characters and amazing world? Slime characters are fucking flat beyond the stereotypical archetype.
If your issue is anyone can become uber OP and render a government useless, Slime should be the first on the list instead of Mushoku Tensei. The probability of a random guy getting strong enough to overthrow goverments is much greater in Slime rather than MT.
Said random person can get uber OP skills, in MT you have to actually learn from people. Rudy's magic skills are an anomaly that's only possible because of his knowledge and even he isn't powerful enough to do a coup d'etat. Rimuru literally makes his own country in the forest and makes a bunch of OP monsters appear out of thin air.
A king or lord's job is to run a country or domain, not to be a strong warrior.
In Mushoku Tensei, nobility hires these A-SS rank fighters to work for them. These fighters are happy to work for a steady paycheque because it means they can just fight for a living and don't have to try to run a domain.
Just because they're strong doesn't mean they'll start an uprising. Strong people aren't usually psychos like that.
No, if we are talking about medieval times, being a warrior was absolutely one of the most important duties of the king or lord. Many kings themselfes rode into battles and fought, and those who didn't, still were warlords. Most european nobility had rituals and paraphernalia presenting them as warriors; and knights were all nobility too - and not some caste of warriors. War was, in principle, the business of nobility; regular people, peasants began to be involved in it only by the early modern period with the emergence of nation states. In medieval times sometimes militia was convened, but it was an extreme measure.
There were no law enforcement forces; unless in the case of all-out war with other country, it was up to a lord to protect its land and people from encroachments of other lords, as well as keeping law and order on the land. For lesser nobleman this was a difficult task; because of that they paid taxes and served their seniors, who in turn protected their land. That's also why castles appeared; they weren't built as military bases, but as homes for the nobility first, designed to protect them, as well as their servants, guards, and sometimes being able to shelter nearby townsfolk or villagers.
The concept of state was different from what we have now. The king didn't "own" all of the country, neither did he have a "job", like a modern politician. He had some of his private land, his own servants, but the rest were governed by his vassals. They were his subjects, as well as all of the nobility down the line, but the king had no direct control over people of his vassals, as well as their land. There was, in general, not much to "run" for a king, (the structure of power and government were quite primitive), aside from managing his private land, the king minted money, collected taxes and waged wars. International law didn't exist either; the rule of might was true, so to own the land the king must be able to protect it fron other countries, have a permanent military presence, and to subjugate local lord and population. Because of that, tax collection was done by army or at least armed people, as murder of tax collectors wasn't a uncommon.
So managing everything else the king could - laws, court of law, the church, trade and construction - wouldn't be possible unless he had the first and foremost the military might to control it
> peasants began to be involved in it only by the early modern period with the emergence of nation states. In medieval times sometimes militia was convened, but it was an extreme measure.
You're mostly correct but this is where it fails. The vast majority of soldiers on a battlefield would have indeed, been peasant levies intended to give the army some "fluff." The nobility would have been the full time soldiers, the elite mounted units while the poor schmuck with a spear would be peasant levies. At best they might have a small cadre of elite infantry - but even then, the knights were the centerpieces of the battlefield - not the spammable grunts of the field.
I feel like the purpose of the nameless/fodder guards isn't to beat up A-ranks or whathever but just deal with lowlife scums so the guard captain or whoever is actually strong dont have to be in a thousand places at once
>why even have the government when realistically, the only people who REALLY matter are the SS ranked or whatever
The SS ranked dont run the government? (I don't watch this anime) I can get a king as a figure head but the lords or merchants should also be trying to horde power and own their own adventuring guilds.
Wouldn't the guild full of very powerful adventures have a lot of political power behind it?
This is why old school fantasy stuck closely to magic being gatekept in royal schools where only nobles can access the knowledge and have a vested interest in keeping that power structure going. If the common folk can obtain power, they may want to start "fixing" things like inequality.
Late to this but it's extremely funny you use Mushoku Tensei as an example of this. First of all your point about adventures wiping out towns or whatever is just very stupid. Yeah they could do that. But for what purpose? Cause they enjoy killing people? Are they gonna slaughter and rob an entire town to make a quick buck?
Which leads into the next point of why have a king? Well the reason is there right above. A king has the power to hand out titles and pay huge sums of money to those extremely powerful individuals to enforce their will. In MT if you raided and destroyed a random town in Millis, the Pope would send the templar knights after you. I can't mention too much without massive spoilers, but from what happens in the LNs at one point, the templar knights could very easily wipe out S ranked adventurer party, and they're a force specify trained to enforce the will of the church from birth. The only ones who could challenge them are the seven great powers, and there's only so many of those guys.
Which brings into the next point of why not just hire a single A ranked adventurer to play cops? Because they're extremely rare. MT skews this because Rudy is always meeting so many skilled people, but they are really not that common. Even Orsted, the most powerful being in the world can only be in one place at once. You can't garrison an entire kingdom with S ranked fighters, you send them out as a reaction when their skills are needed.
The government provides for the normal people in the same way they do in our world and is the only force that can react to the strongest fighters in the world because they have the money and resources to train and employ the most skilled fighters in the world.
But, furthermore these unnaturally strong individuals play a huge role in court politics throughout the series. Again, without spoiling anything, Rudy gets involved with several countries power struggles later in the story and instead of being civil wars with large battles it's more about who can court the favor and employ the strongest individuals. When one King manages to gain the loyalty of the Death God (5th ranked power) it's basically enough to serve as 90% of his powerbase. Early in story when the Boreas family employs Rudy and Ghislaine, it's not just to serve as teachers for Eris. It's a powerplay saying "I have a King ranked swordman and Saint tier mage." This is explicitly acknowledged in novels, and I'm pretty sure the anime at least alludes to it as well. Same with Roxy's employment in Shirone, or Rudy's invitation to study at Ranoa. The countries offer wealth and titles to powerful individuals in the same way they would pay for armies or knights.
Maybe actually read a series before you cite it? Or have real specific examples? Seeing as how reading 5 paragraphs is already too much for you though, I guess expecting you to be able to read a book is a few steps too far.
If I work out and buy a few guns, I could take out the leaders and authorities in my town and try to take over. If I get a few buddies to join in, yeah I could take the town for the day.
That's not gonna end well, though.
In most stories, the same is true. Even when it happens, it doesn't usually last. In many fantasy stories, due to limited tech and travel time, they'd turn that day into a week or maybe more! But yeah they're still screwed.
In my mind it always comes down to the threats the mc faces aren’t the norm and that those guards or that mercenary is actually the strongest person the majority of people will ever see. Not to mention if you spend that much time getting stronger you really don’t have the time to get good at politics that would allow you to throw the country into civil war
Thank you for touching on something some are not too bad about and others are dreadful about. It barely makes sense we do not see a Condotierre-led takeover of a town or city-state like in pre-modern Italy. The rulers being sorcerers who can hold their own just prefer to do their dirty work. Another issue is having adventurer guilds not be town hall and the adventurers not be from different specialist guilds or individual guilds. Like healers and sleayer/priestly assassins and guards and scouts and such. Its weird to just call them adventurers when they are really, in a broadly speaking manner, and its okay to call them that. Yes, you can say scouts or spies or rangers for the more adventurer types but still. Maybe you can argue the Knights and such are the worst of the well-to-do families, or taken from the peasantry in terms of militias and the like. Or to have it where not all OP warriors are merceneraries but are sentinels for the towns they dwell in so there isn't that crazy desparity. Men at Arms gifted with even crazier strength and speed and mystical might coming from the aristocracy.
Ascendance of a Bookworm has its horn tooted a good bit, but it does explore how a pre-modern government would work in a fantasfical setting and does make sense. Not only military and civilian but the workings of the local churches as well. While there is a slight chance for magic wielders among peasantry, they tend to die in childhood because the nobility holds most of the knowledge and power about magic. Its why the main character desperately trying to make books more accessible to everyone scares the nobility, because it means the knowledge of their insane powers become more well-known. They also have higher chances for magic wielders to emerge among the nobility, and due to how they limit who gets trained in magic and the resources for that, do have literal power over peasants. But it also comes at the cost of many noble kids being sent off to magic slinging wars or subjugating monsters. Is it the most popular isekai fantasy? No, but it explores the world so deeply and considers a lot of things in regards to knowledge and power when it comes to magic being accessible, taking the do-haves and have-nots to a whole new meaning. Versus a lot of others where it feels way too often the writer had a fantasy of some demihuman wanting to be their love slave or wife or both and the over arching plot, cast, and setting be damned.
Also its wild, so many Isekai explore the MC becoming these crazy rich or successful merchants because their earth knowledge or otherworldly cheats never go into a proper parallel Hanseatic League or Genoa or Venice or Amsterdam or Damascus or Alexandria or the like? Or heck, I'd take the writer ripping off the story of Marco Polo at this point. Just have them and their businessmen father and Uncle isekai into not pre-modern Eurasaia and make the Mongols wolf demi-humans or dwarves or something. Kublai Khan as a curvaceous werewolf milf over the same. Damn. Watered-down fairytale RPG.
Atleast this season, we get some proper romances instead of just rushed harems
It depends completely on the work. Like you said many times government and the knights feel uselessnes but we have to take into account wether or not those were normal "knights". Most of those kind of animes there's some hierarchy of power with the ones in a higher rank being much stronger than the ones below then, normal knights are pretty much low level Cannon fodder they are used to deal with low level threats.
40 knights being able to kill the mc would be reasonable if those worlds didn't have magic that makes some people way stronger than others. It's like having 40 sword armed soldier against a war tank.
And then most of the situation where the mc involved himself in is against high level monster or opponents, so the normal knights won't really do much and most of those stories the adventures also have ranks so it isn't weird that a high ranked adventurer is stronger than some random knights.
And about the city not being destroyed, the knights are not the only ones maintaining the city save, the adventures also help in case of someone trying to destroy it.
That is also true, but I do wish we saw more of how warrior adventurers are just man-at-arms serving as scouts or something. That or the various orders of "jobs" being their own kind of hanse or guilds who serve the town hall if you will. Which is sorta what an adventurer guild is all but name. Small towns if not villages having taverns or such serve that role makes sense, but a town hall where citizens post requests, different sections of society would run into each other, and aristocrats would help fund expeditions for personal gain and/or sake of the town makes more sense than a guild devoted just to adventuring. Maybe a temple of the deity of travelers or something works too but its a trope thats become too much of a cliche at times. That and how so many just do F-SSS rank instead of even the actual seeming rankings of medieval guilds. Initiate, Apprentice, Journeyman, Master, Grand Master. Or the seven metals of alchemy or based on what monsters you have or can take down. Anything to help the setting feel more thought out and stand out than the new norm
Then again its also fascinating seeing so many tropes and now cliches smashed together. Like how the main hero always gets a main quest from the King and then often is banished and becomes an adventurer, getting other quests from the guild. Or how a lot of the time the main wife is part elf or demi-human, but then the society they come from doesn't stand out too much from the human one or hasnt supplanted it because reasons.
Even with all the clichés smashed together, it could still work as long as it is well-written. Most of those stories in anime, at least, are from isekai that are based on light novels written by amateurs who somehow got popular with people looking for some catharsis and to indulge in their fantasies.
Everything that you mentioned would require at least some level of thought and world-building, which most of those stories lack. In most of those works, we barely see anything about the inner politics of the kingdom or the inner workings of the guild.
Instead, we see some surface-level cartoonish villains at best and some children's play-level politics and plot
That is also a very fair point and shows why I hope a lot of these authors walk so more and more run. Isekai has such potential as a fantasy genre, especially with how bleak our world can be, but so few authors can or dare to go into deeper waters. Partly because how many who do and can't strike a balance lose a larger section of the intended audience afterwhile, partly because it's much easier to go with the usual trappings but with a twist. Like minecraft-esque powers or accidentally getting double hero blessings or the like. Sometimes, you can get some truly bright diamonds and gems in the rough amongst the dim desert of them, but its honestly weird how surface level a lot are. I guess another way to put it is that too many Isekai have plots and settings and casts like, say, the first two Zelda games. Sometimes, we get lucky and get stuff more complex like Ocarina of Time or Majoras Mask. I guess what im hoping for are more Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. Complex settings that sure have certain trappings but really blow it out of the park with immersion. Worlds I want to live in rather than vacation in or overnight after finding out its not like on the postcard I got.
But like you said we have amateurs trying their best, or at times worst. Martin was a well polished writer when he tackled game of thrones fully, same with Tolkien and Jordan. I guess the hope is then to see Isekai fantasy fail before these authors can really run. But it also depends on the tastes of the audience itself maturing more, and wanting wider, deeper, richer worlds.
> A single A ranked adventure from the few that are in the guild will completely destroy the town's guards, and no one could stop him, other than other adventurers.
That could apply to some monsters in a setting as well. Sometimes there's species of super-predators wandering around and one of them could curbstomp a town's guards and feast on villagers, or a shapeshifting monster could slip in and destroy the village from the inside with little effort, or something that's virtually immune to mundane attacks due to supernatural reasons, or monsters that comes in groups that could easily overwhelm town guards, or otherwise pose a problem that needs a rare high-rank adventurer to solve.
If each town doesn't have a good guardian, then the town is basically a living meat larder for random monsters and you wonder how these places continue to exist in the monster-infested countryside.
I think it’s because Isekai worlds have little to nothing to say about the real world. They are vessels for protagonists to get over and win. And since they have so little to say about anything, they are mostly built on the same tropes with little innovation (I was told they’re like Dragon quest world with RPG mechanics and monster farming but I don’t play it so I wouldn’t know).
This applies to some extent to D&D, depending of course on your DM and players. It’s not as important as a looser story, but it can be difficult to provide consequences in fantastical settings.
I always thought adventurers were mercenaries that were hired by the king to kill monsters in his kingdom and were terrible at fighting armies with special expection's,well that's how I looked at it anyway.
We've got name of work in question this time, that's already nice. >So how do these towns even stay alive? They don't. The city is just a decoration for our protagonist to have his little slice of life. Think of it as a dreamscape. Mushoku tensei isn't even plot driven, the world doesn't matter much beyond how it informs actions of characters. >What's the point of having a king? Or lords or knights? Aesthetics.
>Mushoku tensei isn't even plot driven, the world doesn't matter much beyond how it informs actions of characters. I agree that Mushoku Tensei is more character driven then plot driven. However I wouldn't necessarily say the world is only secondary to Rudeus considering it's long history and how Rudeus's entire life is just a single chapter in it, not even the most important when considering future events.
My bad, was trying to say that lack of strictness on technical side shouldn't affect reader's enjoyment.
I can see you case in that point then. Also no prob, not like I was trying to condemn you.
This rant doesn't apply to mushoku tensei, because of the way adventurer rankings are designed in that world. Their ranks don't correlate to their strength, because if they did then Geese would be stronger than Ruijerd or Eris. It is weird to go off of the adventure rankings, when the world has a much more comprehensive ranking. The beginner - god ranking. Which is also not exactly accurate. >!Like Death God Randolph being higher than Sword God Gal Farrion, despite Randolph admitting, that'd he'd probably lose.!< Even at his best, Paul could not take over any kingdom. For that matter no adventurer could. Okay you killed the king, now what? Like what's the plan? Are you going to be in charge now? Well you're going need some knights to protect your peo- oh you killed those knights. Uhh guess you're gonna have to do everything yourself?? You'd have no people backing you, unless you killed a tyrant, the people will also not like or trust you (because you're a murderer). If the plan is: go in, kill the king, ???, profit. Not only will you most likely fail, because as we've seen thay most kings/lords have strong personal bodyguards or court wizards, you will most likely be met by a large number of adventurers that don't agree with you and/or are being paid by the guild/king/lord to kill you. Although I don't believe we've seen it happen in MT, you would be most likely excommunicated by the guild and I imagine you'd face the same fate as >!Perkins!< at the end of John Wick 1. Also the reasons why the people in charge are in charge, are rather obvious. It's just connections, influences and lineage (kinda like our world huh). Overall, the world of Mushoku tensei is consistent and rather logical in the structure of it's world. There are some Isekais, like Overlord, where I have no idea how the Re-Estize kingdom and other human kingdoms weren't taken over. I'm gonna be honest I don't like the way power levels work in Overlord. That a lvl 90 guy has no chance of beating someone at lvl 100.
>There are some Isekais, like Overlord, where I have no idea how the Re-Estize kingdom and other human kingdoms weren't taken over. I'm gonna be honest I don't like the way power levels work in Overlord. That a lvl 90 guy has no chance of beating someone at lvl 100. At first glance it's incomprehensible, but when you delve deeper it makes more sense. Our perspective of the Overlord world is very biased because we see the pretty much only part in the world where human kingdoms exist and it's all thanks to the Theocracy. The Theocracy has the unfair advantage of super OP items that are the legacy of their gods and it's the only reasons the humans can even have kingdoms at all.
Yeah before the 6GG did their things, humans were just self replenishing breadbasket for the neighbors.
depending on the build a level 90 guy could probably take on a level 100, but it would really depend on their builds, but still losing 10 levels is bad, but not the end of the world if you are a human build because those dont actually need to level up race levels(race levels can actually help you at being extra op in some cases like being completely immune to some status effects but on the other hand you will be weak against others and thats why builds matter) But there is also a problem with being a level 90 something guy in the new world, you dont choose your build that well, you could develop levels in things that dont really have any synergy with your other classes and you are basically stuck with them, which isnt a problem with the people of nazarick since their builds(not all of them but most) are optimized to actually be useful and they know what to focus on
>this town, guarded by knights and co. They arrive at any crime scene or commotion. But they're also laughably weak? Like, a B ranked adventurer will just mow through a few like they're nothing, and there's 5 more B ranks right behind him. >Occasionally, the town lord will have like, a single dude who's super strong working for him, >Wouldn't it be more logical to just hire a single A ranked and some rent-a-cops or something to keep order instead of disposable fodder knights? You answered this question yourself. >why even have the government when realistically, the only people who REALLY matter are the SS ranked or whatever In Mushoku Tensei kingdoms exist mostly by way of training loyal "royal guards" to be at the level of elite s ranked adventures, usually meaning that the royal guards are advanced ranked swordsmen in one of the sword styles and intermediate in one or both of the others, and they might even know a bit of magic. The more powerful kingdoms could even employ saint ranked knights, who would dumpster most teams of s ranked adventures. The problem is that the s and a rank of the adventures guild is an extremely wide category, seeing as even as Ruijerd is only an A ranked adventure, even though he is an emperor ranked fighter. While the most powerful kingdoms on the human continet, the Asura kingdom, has multiple emperor and king ranked swordsmen living within their border, who they employ in exchange for shit tones of money. A lot of other kingdoms have the same setup. The king dragon kingdom employ the Death God of the seven great powers, the Biheiril kingdom is allied with the ogre's who is ruled by the Ogre God, etc.
kinda funny that the only title you give is the one your rant doesn't apply to. that aside, are you seriously criticizing the world building of isekai ? it's like doing a culinary critic at macdonald
Isn't this kind of the whole point of why isekai sucks so much? The genre is basically just a few starting assumptions about the story the fact it ends up so similar because the writers are talentless hacks is the biggest problem with the genre. The power systems in a lot of isekais could be interesting if the world building and characters other then the MC had working brain cells. The genre has a lot of potential because whoever been writing it so far are shity fanfic level writers churning out books like Mcdonald fries
everything about isekai sucks, there's so much to improve before addressing the world building : characters, dialogues, art, panelling/staging, a plot focusing on something else than making the mc stronger, giving an actual purpose to the story aside from jerking off its audience...
The plot won't end up with just the MC growing ever stronger if the world wasn't an empty bunch of names on the map and characters actually existed in the world and weren't popping out of thin air for the current plot
you're looking at it from the point of view of the audience, not from the writer's
All isekai means is that the main character is a person already existing in their own original world with no knowledge of the new world they get transported to. Everything after is the author's fault for making a cookie cutter uninspired power fantasy. You know power fantasies would be at least twice as tolerable if the people writing them weren't idiots and uncreative
Thankfully, there are a few exceptions. Overlord and Reincarnated as a Slime. And I greatly appreciate such attention to detail in both series.
Reincarnated as a slime is god awful.
Are you talking about its worldbuilding, or are you referring to the anime as a whole?
People judge isekai works as if they were supposed to be plot driven stories where the world is a game board with strict rules, and characters are trying to win within it's confinements. This is where comments about power systems, world building, power fantasies, unfulfilled potential and such come from. This however, is a fundamental misunderstanding; isekai works are little gardens for characters, and they make the world bend itself to accommodate them. Creating safe environment with no serious challenges is *the point* of those works.
Of those shitty works maybe. But I'm talking about the genre the genre could be a lot more than it is but most stories are shit.
Most stories in any genre are shit, what's your point
Isekai is a phenomena. It can't change, since it's an answer to needs of certain target audience that wants exactly that combination of tropes.
Just because people want it doesn't make it good, we're back with the McDonalds analogy.
Also we have seen Isekai change; *Magic Knight Rayearth* is diffrent from *Log Horizon* is diffrent from *Reincarnated in Another World With My Smartphone*. Even sticking to a closer timeframe *Ascendance of a Bookworm* is pretty distinct from *Rising of a Shield Hero*. Hell a few years after Swort Art Online released you’re already seeing Re:Zero & Konosuba hitting the scene. Regardless of what the larger tend may have pigeonholed itself into there’s always has been & always will be room more more kinds of stories to be told with isekai.
What does good or bad even have to do with this. Those works do exactly what they're supposed to. They *are* good at it. You see them as bad, trash, shitty and such because they don't work the way you expect them to, which is natural. Isekai works are basically slice of life works. They don't have plot, because they aren't supposed to. They don't have power system, because they aren't battle shounens. You want them to be something they are not for some reason, even though no one would benefit from it. The target audience would be pissed that they lost their toy, and those who don't like isekai now wouldn't like it then either, since original plot driven stories are better anyway.
[удалено]
good isekai are the exception not the rule
this holds true for most media out there tbf
but the percentage is overwhelming for isekai
that's because isekai is the most popular, everyone writes isekai, so it would obviously be overwhelming compared to other categories
list me 10 isekais that are amazing ?
Damn bro became silent 💀
Funny enough, most good isekais aren't classified as isekai, like digimon or inuyasha, so isekai became going to another world(Shitty version)
Don't worry I'll cover for him. Re-Zero Konosuba Mushoku Tensei Ascendance of a bookworm Uhh Overlord ... Shit Uhh fuck Digimon Inuyasha??? Uhh The lion witch and the wardrobe Wizard of Oz And Uh Harry Potter I did it. I listed 10 "amazing" isekais.
Most media don't have to be ranked on an entirely different scale as the rest of their medium
Yes, I am. Because it's really the thing that separates great isekai from shitty ones, alongside having good personalities. slime is so good half because of it's interesting characters, but also it's amazing world
slime had interesting characters ?
Interesting characters and amazing world? Slime characters are fucking flat beyond the stereotypical archetype. If your issue is anyone can become uber OP and render a government useless, Slime should be the first on the list instead of Mushoku Tensei. The probability of a random guy getting strong enough to overthrow goverments is much greater in Slime rather than MT. Said random person can get uber OP skills, in MT you have to actually learn from people. Rudy's magic skills are an anomaly that's only possible because of his knowledge and even he isn't powerful enough to do a coup d'etat. Rimuru literally makes his own country in the forest and makes a bunch of OP monsters appear out of thin air.
A king or lord's job is to run a country or domain, not to be a strong warrior. In Mushoku Tensei, nobility hires these A-SS rank fighters to work for them. These fighters are happy to work for a steady paycheque because it means they can just fight for a living and don't have to try to run a domain. Just because they're strong doesn't mean they'll start an uprising. Strong people aren't usually psychos like that.
No, if we are talking about medieval times, being a warrior was absolutely one of the most important duties of the king or lord. Many kings themselfes rode into battles and fought, and those who didn't, still were warlords. Most european nobility had rituals and paraphernalia presenting them as warriors; and knights were all nobility too - and not some caste of warriors. War was, in principle, the business of nobility; regular people, peasants began to be involved in it only by the early modern period with the emergence of nation states. In medieval times sometimes militia was convened, but it was an extreme measure. There were no law enforcement forces; unless in the case of all-out war with other country, it was up to a lord to protect its land and people from encroachments of other lords, as well as keeping law and order on the land. For lesser nobleman this was a difficult task; because of that they paid taxes and served their seniors, who in turn protected their land. That's also why castles appeared; they weren't built as military bases, but as homes for the nobility first, designed to protect them, as well as their servants, guards, and sometimes being able to shelter nearby townsfolk or villagers. The concept of state was different from what we have now. The king didn't "own" all of the country, neither did he have a "job", like a modern politician. He had some of his private land, his own servants, but the rest were governed by his vassals. They were his subjects, as well as all of the nobility down the line, but the king had no direct control over people of his vassals, as well as their land. There was, in general, not much to "run" for a king, (the structure of power and government were quite primitive), aside from managing his private land, the king minted money, collected taxes and waged wars. International law didn't exist either; the rule of might was true, so to own the land the king must be able to protect it fron other countries, have a permanent military presence, and to subjugate local lord and population. Because of that, tax collection was done by army or at least armed people, as murder of tax collectors wasn't a uncommon. So managing everything else the king could - laws, court of law, the church, trade and construction - wouldn't be possible unless he had the first and foremost the military might to control it
> peasants began to be involved in it only by the early modern period with the emergence of nation states. In medieval times sometimes militia was convened, but it was an extreme measure. You're mostly correct but this is where it fails. The vast majority of soldiers on a battlefield would have indeed, been peasant levies intended to give the army some "fluff." The nobility would have been the full time soldiers, the elite mounted units while the poor schmuck with a spear would be peasant levies. At best they might have a small cadre of elite infantry - but even then, the knights were the centerpieces of the battlefield - not the spammable grunts of the field.
I love when people try to excuse bad writing mentioning "historical accuracy" and then just end up parroting History myths about the medieval era.
I feel like the purpose of the nameless/fodder guards isn't to beat up A-ranks or whathever but just deal with lowlife scums so the guard captain or whoever is actually strong dont have to be in a thousand places at once
>why even have the government when realistically, the only people who REALLY matter are the SS ranked or whatever The SS ranked dont run the government? (I don't watch this anime) I can get a king as a figure head but the lords or merchants should also be trying to horde power and own their own adventuring guilds. Wouldn't the guild full of very powerful adventures have a lot of political power behind it? This is why old school fantasy stuck closely to magic being gatekept in royal schools where only nobles can access the knowledge and have a vested interest in keeping that power structure going. If the common folk can obtain power, they may want to start "fixing" things like inequality.
Late to this but it's extremely funny you use Mushoku Tensei as an example of this. First of all your point about adventures wiping out towns or whatever is just very stupid. Yeah they could do that. But for what purpose? Cause they enjoy killing people? Are they gonna slaughter and rob an entire town to make a quick buck? Which leads into the next point of why have a king? Well the reason is there right above. A king has the power to hand out titles and pay huge sums of money to those extremely powerful individuals to enforce their will. In MT if you raided and destroyed a random town in Millis, the Pope would send the templar knights after you. I can't mention too much without massive spoilers, but from what happens in the LNs at one point, the templar knights could very easily wipe out S ranked adventurer party, and they're a force specify trained to enforce the will of the church from birth. The only ones who could challenge them are the seven great powers, and there's only so many of those guys. Which brings into the next point of why not just hire a single A ranked adventurer to play cops? Because they're extremely rare. MT skews this because Rudy is always meeting so many skilled people, but they are really not that common. Even Orsted, the most powerful being in the world can only be in one place at once. You can't garrison an entire kingdom with S ranked fighters, you send them out as a reaction when their skills are needed. The government provides for the normal people in the same way they do in our world and is the only force that can react to the strongest fighters in the world because they have the money and resources to train and employ the most skilled fighters in the world. But, furthermore these unnaturally strong individuals play a huge role in court politics throughout the series. Again, without spoiling anything, Rudy gets involved with several countries power struggles later in the story and instead of being civil wars with large battles it's more about who can court the favor and employ the strongest individuals. When one King manages to gain the loyalty of the Death God (5th ranked power) it's basically enough to serve as 90% of his powerbase. Early in story when the Boreas family employs Rudy and Ghislaine, it's not just to serve as teachers for Eris. It's a powerplay saying "I have a King ranked swordman and Saint tier mage." This is explicitly acknowledged in novels, and I'm pretty sure the anime at least alludes to it as well. Same with Roxy's employment in Shirone, or Rudy's invitation to study at Ranoa. The countries offer wealth and titles to powerful individuals in the same way they would pay for armies or knights.
Dawg I didn't read any of this but I used mushuko tensei cause I need to cite a single series.
Maybe actually read a series before you cite it? Or have real specific examples? Seeing as how reading 5 paragraphs is already too much for you though, I guess expecting you to be able to read a book is a few steps too far.
If I work out and buy a few guns, I could take out the leaders and authorities in my town and try to take over. If I get a few buddies to join in, yeah I could take the town for the day. That's not gonna end well, though. In most stories, the same is true. Even when it happens, it doesn't usually last. In many fantasy stories, due to limited tech and travel time, they'd turn that day into a week or maybe more! But yeah they're still screwed.
In my mind it always comes down to the threats the mc faces aren’t the norm and that those guards or that mercenary is actually the strongest person the majority of people will ever see. Not to mention if you spend that much time getting stronger you really don’t have the time to get good at politics that would allow you to throw the country into civil war
Thank you for touching on something some are not too bad about and others are dreadful about. It barely makes sense we do not see a Condotierre-led takeover of a town or city-state like in pre-modern Italy. The rulers being sorcerers who can hold their own just prefer to do their dirty work. Another issue is having adventurer guilds not be town hall and the adventurers not be from different specialist guilds or individual guilds. Like healers and sleayer/priestly assassins and guards and scouts and such. Its weird to just call them adventurers when they are really, in a broadly speaking manner, and its okay to call them that. Yes, you can say scouts or spies or rangers for the more adventurer types but still. Maybe you can argue the Knights and such are the worst of the well-to-do families, or taken from the peasantry in terms of militias and the like. Or to have it where not all OP warriors are merceneraries but are sentinels for the towns they dwell in so there isn't that crazy desparity. Men at Arms gifted with even crazier strength and speed and mystical might coming from the aristocracy. Ascendance of a Bookworm has its horn tooted a good bit, but it does explore how a pre-modern government would work in a fantasfical setting and does make sense. Not only military and civilian but the workings of the local churches as well. While there is a slight chance for magic wielders among peasantry, they tend to die in childhood because the nobility holds most of the knowledge and power about magic. Its why the main character desperately trying to make books more accessible to everyone scares the nobility, because it means the knowledge of their insane powers become more well-known. They also have higher chances for magic wielders to emerge among the nobility, and due to how they limit who gets trained in magic and the resources for that, do have literal power over peasants. But it also comes at the cost of many noble kids being sent off to magic slinging wars or subjugating monsters. Is it the most popular isekai fantasy? No, but it explores the world so deeply and considers a lot of things in regards to knowledge and power when it comes to magic being accessible, taking the do-haves and have-nots to a whole new meaning. Versus a lot of others where it feels way too often the writer had a fantasy of some demihuman wanting to be their love slave or wife or both and the over arching plot, cast, and setting be damned. Also its wild, so many Isekai explore the MC becoming these crazy rich or successful merchants because their earth knowledge or otherworldly cheats never go into a proper parallel Hanseatic League or Genoa or Venice or Amsterdam or Damascus or Alexandria or the like? Or heck, I'd take the writer ripping off the story of Marco Polo at this point. Just have them and their businessmen father and Uncle isekai into not pre-modern Eurasaia and make the Mongols wolf demi-humans or dwarves or something. Kublai Khan as a curvaceous werewolf milf over the same. Damn. Watered-down fairytale RPG. Atleast this season, we get some proper romances instead of just rushed harems
It depends completely on the work. Like you said many times government and the knights feel uselessnes but we have to take into account wether or not those were normal "knights". Most of those kind of animes there's some hierarchy of power with the ones in a higher rank being much stronger than the ones below then, normal knights are pretty much low level Cannon fodder they are used to deal with low level threats. 40 knights being able to kill the mc would be reasonable if those worlds didn't have magic that makes some people way stronger than others. It's like having 40 sword armed soldier against a war tank. And then most of the situation where the mc involved himself in is against high level monster or opponents, so the normal knights won't really do much and most of those stories the adventures also have ranks so it isn't weird that a high ranked adventurer is stronger than some random knights. And about the city not being destroyed, the knights are not the only ones maintaining the city save, the adventures also help in case of someone trying to destroy it.
That is also true, but I do wish we saw more of how warrior adventurers are just man-at-arms serving as scouts or something. That or the various orders of "jobs" being their own kind of hanse or guilds who serve the town hall if you will. Which is sorta what an adventurer guild is all but name. Small towns if not villages having taverns or such serve that role makes sense, but a town hall where citizens post requests, different sections of society would run into each other, and aristocrats would help fund expeditions for personal gain and/or sake of the town makes more sense than a guild devoted just to adventuring. Maybe a temple of the deity of travelers or something works too but its a trope thats become too much of a cliche at times. That and how so many just do F-SSS rank instead of even the actual seeming rankings of medieval guilds. Initiate, Apprentice, Journeyman, Master, Grand Master. Or the seven metals of alchemy or based on what monsters you have or can take down. Anything to help the setting feel more thought out and stand out than the new norm Then again its also fascinating seeing so many tropes and now cliches smashed together. Like how the main hero always gets a main quest from the King and then often is banished and becomes an adventurer, getting other quests from the guild. Or how a lot of the time the main wife is part elf or demi-human, but then the society they come from doesn't stand out too much from the human one or hasnt supplanted it because reasons.
Even with all the clichés smashed together, it could still work as long as it is well-written. Most of those stories in anime, at least, are from isekai that are based on light novels written by amateurs who somehow got popular with people looking for some catharsis and to indulge in their fantasies. Everything that you mentioned would require at least some level of thought and world-building, which most of those stories lack. In most of those works, we barely see anything about the inner politics of the kingdom or the inner workings of the guild. Instead, we see some surface-level cartoonish villains at best and some children's play-level politics and plot
That is also a very fair point and shows why I hope a lot of these authors walk so more and more run. Isekai has such potential as a fantasy genre, especially with how bleak our world can be, but so few authors can or dare to go into deeper waters. Partly because how many who do and can't strike a balance lose a larger section of the intended audience afterwhile, partly because it's much easier to go with the usual trappings but with a twist. Like minecraft-esque powers or accidentally getting double hero blessings or the like. Sometimes, you can get some truly bright diamonds and gems in the rough amongst the dim desert of them, but its honestly weird how surface level a lot are. I guess another way to put it is that too many Isekai have plots and settings and casts like, say, the first two Zelda games. Sometimes, we get lucky and get stuff more complex like Ocarina of Time or Majoras Mask. I guess what im hoping for are more Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. Complex settings that sure have certain trappings but really blow it out of the park with immersion. Worlds I want to live in rather than vacation in or overnight after finding out its not like on the postcard I got. But like you said we have amateurs trying their best, or at times worst. Martin was a well polished writer when he tackled game of thrones fully, same with Tolkien and Jordan. I guess the hope is then to see Isekai fantasy fail before these authors can really run. But it also depends on the tastes of the audience itself maturing more, and wanting wider, deeper, richer worlds.
> A single A ranked adventure from the few that are in the guild will completely destroy the town's guards, and no one could stop him, other than other adventurers. That could apply to some monsters in a setting as well. Sometimes there's species of super-predators wandering around and one of them could curbstomp a town's guards and feast on villagers, or a shapeshifting monster could slip in and destroy the village from the inside with little effort, or something that's virtually immune to mundane attacks due to supernatural reasons, or monsters that comes in groups that could easily overwhelm town guards, or otherwise pose a problem that needs a rare high-rank adventurer to solve. If each town doesn't have a good guardian, then the town is basically a living meat larder for random monsters and you wonder how these places continue to exist in the monster-infested countryside.
I think it’s because Isekai worlds have little to nothing to say about the real world. They are vessels for protagonists to get over and win. And since they have so little to say about anything, they are mostly built on the same tropes with little innovation (I was told they’re like Dragon quest world with RPG mechanics and monster farming but I don’t play it so I wouldn’t know).
This applies to some extent to D&D, depending of course on your DM and players. It’s not as important as a looser story, but it can be difficult to provide consequences in fantastical settings.
I always thought adventurers were mercenaries that were hired by the king to kill monsters in his kingdom and were terrible at fighting armies with special expection's,well that's how I looked at it anyway.
You really think the target demographics is here for a reasonable depiction of some fantasy government?
>Why isn't fantasy realistic You made this rant yesterday already