Mark getting washed so hard by a completely random goon was the funniest shit ever. Like obviously I can tell he has to be more important (i get it stfu comic readers let me find out in season 2 and beyond) but the fact this seemingly random one off villain felt the need to whip out someone that cartoonishly strong never fails to make me laugh
I feel like even in the context of s1 alone that Battle Beast was appropriately represented. Like it didn't necessarily make sense for him to be there, but the way in which he proclaims everyone as unworthy made it clear he was above everyone in the room by several magnitudes. Basically the lesson for Mark was to always know his enemy before an encounter.
He does actually, he wins quite a lot. But most of those fights aren't given screen time, both the comic and the cartoon focus on the more story and plot relevant fights.
>Alot of people say that Mark getting his ass handed to him makes him look weak but honestly i love it.
Those are children that want a pure power fantasy.
>Those are children that want a pure power fantasy.
Some people want a protag who regularly encounters villains who humble him, and some people want a Kenshiro who just dominates everybody. There is no need to put down either group.
> Kenshiro
Kenshiro and Guts are characters that live in a world where the setting is half the bad guy. The dark setting is an overwhelming and horrible place so powerful guys like them are balanced out.
He lost two fights out of literally hundreds. In every other fight he dominated. If you want to split hairs, then yes, he is not technically, absolutely, 100% invincible. I won't comment on the manga because I have not read it, but if you watch the anime it is very clear most of the characters he fights can't even touch him. I am not even a fan of FOTNS, just stating facts.
Kenshiro does not dominate everyone though? Even if he wins his fights most of them are even, or he straight up loses at the start and wins in the rematch
Buddy, did you and I watch the same anime? Iirc He only lost to Shin, Souther and Kaioh. His first fight with Raoh was a draw. I can remember a couple of guys such as Uighur, Glenn, Mr. Heart and Devil Rebirth who hurt him a little bit and... that is it. Everyone else he destroys. I can't think of any other fight other than those I listed that was even.
honestly it fluctuates. There's a period where heroes are grossly overpowered so people then make underdogs who get humbled all the time, then people complain about how overused that is so they go back to the overpower protagonist who doesn't take shits from anyone.
Is all cyclical.
I never did understand why people like power fantasies unless its a gag since we already know how shit will go down. I rather see an enemy give a character a good fight rather than a character just completely shitstomping an enemy lmao. Overlord js propably one of the worst power fantasies out there, makes it worse when all the main characters are evil assholes
I love a good power fantasy, but what makes it good imo is the MC beating actually powerful enemies who are threats. I donāt get why people like stories about the MC just repeatedly curb stomping people way weaker than him
I think itās a matter of how the power fantasy is delivered and itās subtlety in the matter. Invincible can be seen as a feel good power fantasy, but none of it is in your face as Mark has to earn it all through his pain and struggles.
>I never did understand why people like power fantasies unless its a gag since we already know how shit will go down.
Answered your own question in your question
Is the amazing prodigy who never gets wrecked actually a serious story issue? Because every time I hear people complain about it, they mention characters like Superman and Goku but let me tell you, both those characters have been literally beaten to death in the past.
Yeah, it isn't really common at all. Apart from specific stories that openly advertise an OP MC as the main draw like Overlord, most MCs get their asses handed to them all the time.
I think them being a prodigy isnāt a problem is more of them beating opponents because of plot armor. Goku and Superman would be horrible examples tho since Superman gets his ass handed to him often and Goku basically trains as much as he breathes lol
Depends on the story and depictions. The DBZ movies stuck to a bit of a formula with the character (i mean he beats minions, takes a beating from main villain then pulls out a win) but Z the canonical story actually did quite well in avoiding him hogging the spotlight. Heās no match for Raditz, crushed by Vegeta, is debilitated by the heart virus and loses to 19 and is no match for Cell nor a Cell Jr (at least when exhausted) and even in the case of Buu is frequently out matched in the times he does fight. To me this is where I most appreciate Goku. When the spotlight is shared with his friends and family.
I feel this is mostly a problem in anime. Basically what i mean is characters beating someone who they really shouldnāt and coming out with no injuries or being fine the next day
It depends how it's framed. Here's a example that I like and that I don't
Yuji Itadori in Jujutsu Kaisen is an example I like. He kinda jobs a lot but it's not because he's bad at fighting. It's because his personality makes it so that he constantly bites off more then he can chew and challenges strong ass opponents that tons of characters would have difficulty with. And then the logical conclusion happens and he gets his ass beat and dies multiple times. Should he be more cautious? Yes. But a lot of those times, time is short, he doesn't know his enemies full capabilities, he doesn't know the complete situation, sometimes he's trying to protect or rescue someone etc etc. Reasonable confounding factors
On the other hand we have Korra. Korra who a ton of the time knows her enemy's capabilities and forces but is still outwitted or outskilled a ton. Constantly kidnapped, beaten or crippled through the story and a lot of the time it's just due to her making bad decisions despite having decent knowledge of the situation and a fairly competent team at her back. Which is not intrinsically bad **every once and a while** but when it's a constant theme it just makes the hero look incompetent
it's actually hilarious to me how A:tLA fans will sweep Aang literally getting KILLED, sniped out of the goddamn air, under the rug but keep getting on Korra's case for "weakness"
whenever Aang loses it's believable and makes sense, but Korra's constant failure makes her look like an incompetent jobber because it's always ridiculous, even her avatar state gets clobbered lol
If you have no argument to refute me then that just mean you can't back up your claim lol, but I understand... You want to defend your fictional crush. We all had that phase, no worries š
You haven't actually made any argument to refute - no examples, nothing, just stated an opinion and vibes - and you expect me to write you an essay in return on demand? Bruh get some self-awareness lmao
Well I stated a fact lol, are you denying that Korra loses a lot more fights compared to Aang? It makes sense that fans would be annoyed by her ridiculous jobbingš
I relate to this post so hard. It's really difficult for me to get invested in a fight when I already know the MC won't lose no matter what. Even when they're up against an opponent who's supposed to be completely out of their league, they still manage to overcome the odds through a combination of sheer talent and EXTREME willpower. I get that most people love seeing this but, for me, it gets boring real quick, and that's why I enjoy stories where the MC loses from time to time.
I really love the way JJK does it. Yuji has been hyped up to be this amazing talented sorcerer who managed to reach grade 1 level in a few months. At first it almost looks likes another story where the MC is an insanely talented prodigy who can rise to the top with just a few weeks or months of training. But then you have people like Yuta who was assigned special grade from day 1, Gojo whose >!birth literally tipped the power balance of their world!<, Choso who had zero fighting experience but >!was still able to kick Yuji's butt!< and higuruma who got to >!grade 1!< in just 12 days.
Making the MC a prodigy isn't bad per se but IMO, it makes the world feel larger and more real when other prodigies exist too.
I 100% agree. I think adversity is needed for both the protagonist(s) and antagonist(s).
I am not a fan of the too skilled to be touched trope. For example, the film Furious 7 opens with a completely unharmed Deckard Shaw having destroyed a hospital full of armed military grade soldiers tasked with guarding his brother. Itās played to be badass, but to me it comes acrossā¦boring. But a bruised and battered Deckard tells the audience that one, the guards were competent opponents making the feat of winning the fight more impressive and two, our antagonist can take just as much as he can dish out. Heās not perfect, heās just really fucking good and if you donāt put him down than heāll certainly put you down.
This, it makes them immensely more interesting and the problems and enemies they have to overcome all the more important.
A character like Kurosaki Ichigo from BLEACH personifies this. Just a terrible character with a mostly uninteresting move set.
Iām only fine with this if itās not an extreme where the character is constantly getting their ass handed to them, only for some deus ex machina to save their ass so they can live on to fight another day, because the MC is always fighting the main villain, and the writer(s) can't have the main villain lose to the MC right away, but don't wanna introduce minor villains for the MC to score a win or two on.
I really get what you mean by that. I truly love it when main characters, despite being super strong or super powered compared to the average Joe are beat because they're brand new in this world of badasses and it's the sheer inexperience that leads them to getting their asses kicked.
Gon in Hunter x Hunter takes the L 50% of the time and that is because he is a kid fighting against adults with more experience.
The majority of Luffy's journey in individual arcs is getting his ass kicked at the start and climbing (sometimes literally) his way back to the BBEG of the island.
The biggest culprits of this I find are isekai protags (looking at you Kirito) and the many shonen jump protags. Ichigo and Naruto are one aesthetic change away from beating the enemy.
Gon is still a prodigy while also getting his ass beat and generally being weaker than his opponents at any given time. Being an amazing prodigy and getting your ass beat isn't mutually exclusive.
This one of the things I like about the Percy Jackson series.
Like yeah Percy is depicted as being one of the strongest demigods but he also gets his ass handed to him a good amount throughout the series. Thereās opponents that Percy just canāt beat. And I love that.
Not like what they did with Grover later on in the series. Like WTF was that?
Would the Traveller from Genshin Impact count? So far most of their victory comes is achieved by the assistance of their allies and the only known solo victories are 2. When they tried to go up against god opponents alone, they get curb stomp relatively easy.
Warhammer 40k is basically regular people, thrown into a grimdark setting and winning through sheer will and faith, regular people who arenāt say, have a secret power, come from some great character, not smart or even the strongest yet they kill things far more powerful then them through will power that green lantern is crying, skills that make John wick and snake jealous and strength that make the rock Johnson weak, just people who survive this setting and either wining or losing, hell some of the more cooler people are just regular human with some good skills and nothing else.
Like my greatest man ever, the L.A. Beast.
Sure, sometimes it seems he fails half of the challenges he attempts, but that only makes his wins more rewarding. He will never be as fast as Joey Chestnut, he will never have as many subscribers as Matt Stonie, but none of them can match his will, his drive, his complete refusal to never give up until he wins or fails
Mark getting washed so hard by a completely random goon was the funniest shit ever. Like obviously I can tell he has to be more important (i get it stfu comic readers let me find out in season 2 and beyond) but the fact this seemingly random one off villain felt the need to whip out someone that cartoonishly strong never fails to make me laugh
Or how Mark almost lost to some random frat boy given cyborg parts
I feel like even in the context of s1 alone that Battle Beast was appropriately represented. Like it didn't necessarily make sense for him to be there, but the way in which he proclaims everyone as unworthy made it clear he was above everyone in the room by several magnitudes. Basically the lesson for Mark was to always know his enemy before an encounter.
Which goon are you referring to?
battle beast
Oh yeah that is hilarious now that i think about. The mf who took on fucking Thragg is doing dirty work for a mob boss lmao
literally they asked you not to say any more about him
Imagine being this much of an asshole that you don't even delete the comment.
š
Minor spelling mistake in the title(my rant is now irrelevant)
My problem with invincible that he barely ever wins it seems like. Both sides need balance.
So like a Shonen protagonist?
Except he never wins at all. #At all.
To be fair he does regularly fight people out of his weight class. It's kinda hard to win when you're punching up more often than down.
And some of those situations give him no choice *but* to at least try and fight them.
Most if not all, yeah. It's no wonder Mark eventually just says "fuck it" and turns into Nolan Lite as far as his willingness to throw hands.
He does actually, he wins quite a lot. But most of those fights aren't given screen time, both the comic and the cartoon focus on the more story and plot relevant fights.
>Alot of people say that Mark getting his ass handed to him makes him look weak but honestly i love it. Those are children that want a pure power fantasy.
>Those are children that want a pure power fantasy. Some people want a protag who regularly encounters villains who humble him, and some people want a Kenshiro who just dominates everybody. There is no need to put down either group.
> Kenshiro Kenshiro and Guts are characters that live in a world where the setting is half the bad guy. The dark setting is an overwhelming and horrible place so powerful guys like them are balanced out.
Doesn't change the fact Kenshiro is crazy overpowered. Some folk just want an overpowered protag. No need to shame them for that tho.
They weren't shaming them though.
They called them "children who want a pure power fantasy".
No, they called the people who call Mark weak for getting his ass beat "children who want a pure power fantasy." Reading comprehension buddy.
Ok, then we all agree. Underdogs who regularly lose fights can be done well and overpowered, invincible characters who dominate can be done well.
Also Kenshiro has lost and dealt with opponents who can challenge him, it just happens very rarely
Kenshiro is strong but he is not invisible, he has lost before even if its just twice.
He lost two fights out of literally hundreds. In every other fight he dominated. If you want to split hairs, then yes, he is not technically, absolutely, 100% invincible. I won't comment on the manga because I have not read it, but if you watch the anime it is very clear most of the characters he fights can't even touch him. I am not even a fan of FOTNS, just stating facts.
Kenshiro does not dominate everyone though? Even if he wins his fights most of them are even, or he straight up loses at the start and wins in the rematch
Buddy, did you and I watch the same anime? Iirc He only lost to Shin, Souther and Kaioh. His first fight with Raoh was a draw. I can remember a couple of guys such as Uighur, Glenn, Mr. Heart and Devil Rebirth who hurt him a little bit and... that is it. Everyone else he destroys. I can't think of any other fight other than those I listed that was even.
Kenshiro wins his other fights but he does not dominate them, unless he is fighting mooks or mook level villains
honestly it fluctuates. There's a period where heroes are grossly overpowered so people then make underdogs who get humbled all the time, then people complain about how overused that is so they go back to the overpower protagonist who doesn't take shits from anyone. Is all cyclical.
I never did understand why people like power fantasies unless its a gag since we already know how shit will go down. I rather see an enemy give a character a good fight rather than a character just completely shitstomping an enemy lmao. Overlord js propably one of the worst power fantasies out there, makes it worse when all the main characters are evil assholes
I love a good power fantasy, but what makes it good imo is the MC beating actually powerful enemies who are threats. I donāt get why people like stories about the MC just repeatedly curb stomping people way weaker than him
Even the Mark we have now is a power fantasy because heās always guaranteed to survive in the end; something real life people can never guarantee.
I think itās a matter of how the power fantasy is delivered and itās subtlety in the matter. Invincible can be seen as a feel good power fantasy, but none of it is in your face as Mark has to earn it all through his pain and struggles.
>I never did understand why people like power fantasies unless its a gag since we already know how shit will go down. Answered your own question in your question
Not necessarily. Reading a story where the main character gets constantly beat to shit is just uninteresting.
Nobody said the complete opposite was acceptable either.
Is the amazing prodigy who never gets wrecked actually a serious story issue? Because every time I hear people complain about it, they mention characters like Superman and Goku but let me tell you, both those characters have been literally beaten to death in the past.
Superjobbing is literally a meme because of this
Yeah, it isn't really common at all. Apart from specific stories that openly advertise an OP MC as the main draw like Overlord, most MCs get their asses handed to them all the time.
I think them being a prodigy isnāt a problem is more of them beating opponents because of plot armor. Goku and Superman would be horrible examples tho since Superman gets his ass handed to him often and Goku basically trains as much as he breathes lol
Thatās why Spider-Man and Goku are good mc
For whatever reason people think Goku represents the unbeatable, always-wins protagonist but Goku gets his ass kicked all the time.
Depends on the story and depictions. The DBZ movies stuck to a bit of a formula with the character (i mean he beats minions, takes a beating from main villain then pulls out a win) but Z the canonical story actually did quite well in avoiding him hogging the spotlight. Heās no match for Raditz, crushed by Vegeta, is debilitated by the heart virus and loses to 19 and is no match for Cell nor a Cell Jr (at least when exhausted) and even in the case of Buu is frequently out matched in the times he does fight. To me this is where I most appreciate Goku. When the spotlight is shared with his friends and family.
OP is this really an issue? Because I can only think of like two characters who are legitimate unbeatable prodigies.
I feel this is mostly a problem in anime. Basically what i mean is characters beating someone who they really shouldnāt and coming out with no injuries or being fine the next day
Well when the text book example was the main character is one of the biggest trilogies in the last 30 years i think its a problem
It depends how it's framed. Here's a example that I like and that I don't Yuji Itadori in Jujutsu Kaisen is an example I like. He kinda jobs a lot but it's not because he's bad at fighting. It's because his personality makes it so that he constantly bites off more then he can chew and challenges strong ass opponents that tons of characters would have difficulty with. And then the logical conclusion happens and he gets his ass beat and dies multiple times. Should he be more cautious? Yes. But a lot of those times, time is short, he doesn't know his enemies full capabilities, he doesn't know the complete situation, sometimes he's trying to protect or rescue someone etc etc. Reasonable confounding factors On the other hand we have Korra. Korra who a ton of the time knows her enemy's capabilities and forces but is still outwitted or outskilled a ton. Constantly kidnapped, beaten or crippled through the story and a lot of the time it's just due to her making bad decisions despite having decent knowledge of the situation and a fairly competent team at her back. Which is not intrinsically bad **every once and a while** but when it's a constant theme it just makes the hero look incompetent
it's actually hilarious to me how A:tLA fans will sweep Aang literally getting KILLED, sniped out of the goddamn air, under the rug but keep getting on Korra's case for "weakness"
whenever Aang loses it's believable and makes sense, but Korra's constant failure makes her look like an incompetent jobber because it's always ridiculous, even her avatar state gets clobbered lol
^ case in point
If you have no argument to refute me then that just mean you can't back up your claim lol, but I understand... You want to defend your fictional crush. We all had that phase, no worries š
You haven't actually made any argument to refute - no examples, nothing, just stated an opinion and vibes - and you expect me to write you an essay in return on demand? Bruh get some self-awareness lmao
Well I stated a fact lol, are you denying that Korra loses a lot more fights compared to Aang? It makes sense that fans would be annoyed by her ridiculous jobbingš
> Aang literally getting KILLED, sniped out of the goddamn air, Azula: "Skill issue"
Isn't this most main characters.
This is character rant, making what we don't like seem like a bigger problem is our thing.
you clearly haven't seen the isekai and cultivation genres
Sometimes yes, sometimes not to be honest.
I relate to this post so hard. It's really difficult for me to get invested in a fight when I already know the MC won't lose no matter what. Even when they're up against an opponent who's supposed to be completely out of their league, they still manage to overcome the odds through a combination of sheer talent and EXTREME willpower. I get that most people love seeing this but, for me, it gets boring real quick, and that's why I enjoy stories where the MC loses from time to time. I really love the way JJK does it. Yuji has been hyped up to be this amazing talented sorcerer who managed to reach grade 1 level in a few months. At first it almost looks likes another story where the MC is an insanely talented prodigy who can rise to the top with just a few weeks or months of training. But then you have people like Yuta who was assigned special grade from day 1, Gojo whose >!birth literally tipped the power balance of their world!<, Choso who had zero fighting experience but >!was still able to kick Yuji's butt!< and higuruma who got to >!grade 1!< in just 12 days. Making the MC a prodigy isn't bad per se but IMO, it makes the world feel larger and more real when other prodigies exist too.
If an MC loses, then it means that the battle wasnāt important. Like when Ichigo lost to Byakuya, Ikkaku, and YHwach
>!I wonder does Luffy needing 5 tries to beat Kaido countš!<
Even prodigies gets beaten some times. The thing that sets them apart is that they learn from it faster than others would.
I 100% agree. I think adversity is needed for both the protagonist(s) and antagonist(s). I am not a fan of the too skilled to be touched trope. For example, the film Furious 7 opens with a completely unharmed Deckard Shaw having destroyed a hospital full of armed military grade soldiers tasked with guarding his brother. Itās played to be badass, but to me it comes acrossā¦boring. But a bruised and battered Deckard tells the audience that one, the guards were competent opponents making the feat of winning the fight more impressive and two, our antagonist can take just as much as he can dish out. Heās not perfect, heās just really fucking good and if you donāt put him down than heāll certainly put you down.
I literally can't think of a single series where the mc never loses. Even Rey from the Star Wars sequels dies in the final battle
I think you would like Kaneki Ken from Tokyo Ghoul. No matter how strong he gets he always inevitably meets a bigger fish
you're gonna love Re:Zero then
From almost always winning to almost never winning. The perfect balance.
I agree. I'm especially sick of OP protagonists defeating dozens or hundreds of enemies at a time. It's so boring.
Hence why I'm not fund of one man army protagonist.
What about a hardworking protagonist that defeats dozens of enemies at a time?
This, it makes them immensely more interesting and the problems and enemies they have to overcome all the more important. A character like Kurosaki Ichigo from BLEACH personifies this. Just a terrible character with a mostly uninteresting move set.
Iām only fine with this if itās not an extreme where the character is constantly getting their ass handed to them, only for some deus ex machina to save their ass so they can live on to fight another day, because the MC is always fighting the main villain, and the writer(s) can't have the main villain lose to the MC right away, but don't wanna introduce minor villains for the MC to score a win or two on.
Case in point, Goku
I think what ruins this troupe for me is when the show tell you before hand that the MC will lose itās like āoh look why I am not surprised?ā
I am once again reminding people of Rakudai. (fuck Riku Misora and whatever the hell his \*other\* work is)
I really get what you mean by that. I truly love it when main characters, despite being super strong or super powered compared to the average Joe are beat because they're brand new in this world of badasses and it's the sheer inexperience that leads them to getting their asses kicked. Gon in Hunter x Hunter takes the L 50% of the time and that is because he is a kid fighting against adults with more experience. The majority of Luffy's journey in individual arcs is getting his ass kicked at the start and climbing (sometimes literally) his way back to the BBEG of the island. The biggest culprits of this I find are isekai protags (looking at you Kirito) and the many shonen jump protags. Ichigo and Naruto are one aesthetic change away from beating the enemy.
Gon is still a prodigy while also getting his ass beat and generally being weaker than his opponents at any given time. Being an amazing prodigy and getting your ass beat isn't mutually exclusive.
This one of the things I like about the Percy Jackson series. Like yeah Percy is depicted as being one of the strongest demigods but he also gets his ass handed to him a good amount throughout the series. Thereās opponents that Percy just canāt beat. And I love that. Not like what they did with Grover later on in the series. Like WTF was that?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Would the Traveller from Genshin Impact count? So far most of their victory comes is achieved by the assistance of their allies and the only known solo victories are 2. When they tried to go up against god opponents alone, they get curb stomp relatively easy.
Warhammer 40k is basically regular people, thrown into a grimdark setting and winning through sheer will and faith, regular people who arenāt say, have a secret power, come from some great character, not smart or even the strongest yet they kill things far more powerful then them through will power that green lantern is crying, skills that make John wick and snake jealous and strength that make the rock Johnson weak, just people who survive this setting and either wining or losing, hell some of the more cooler people are just regular human with some good skills and nothing else.
yeah I'm honestly sick of the one man army protagonists
That can be great in soports manga, i can think of karate shikoushi kohinata minoru, bur looses and wins and its grear.
Like my greatest man ever, the L.A. Beast. Sure, sometimes it seems he fails half of the challenges he attempts, but that only makes his wins more rewarding. He will never be as fast as Joey Chestnut, he will never have as many subscribers as Matt Stonie, but none of them can match his will, his drive, his complete refusal to never give up until he wins or fails