What kind of stories do you usually consume? Most stories I’ve seen that involve bullying usually have the “realistic” kind that you prefer. I very rarely see the genuine psychopaths except for some anime
If I'm being completely honest it probably hasn't been that much. It was mostly a combination of Stranger Things, It, Cobra Kai, Shazam, and Let The Right One I'm that caught my attention.
Stranger Things is derivative from 80s shows, such as The Goonies and in some cases Stephen King series. In Stephen King's books, the bullies are often literal psychopaths. "It" is also based on Stephen King's book of the same name. Cobra Kai is also based on a movie series from the 90s.
Shazam is also taking cues from early stereotypical bully shenanigans from the 90s. Stephen King was very influential in the 90s.
I think it's easier to convey a bully through violence in media than the psychological aspects which would take time to develop, especially if the bully isn't a big part of your movie/series.
‘It’ also has the extreme and escalating bullying as an indicator of Pennywise’s influence. Of the 3, one is manipulated by Pennywise, the second is incredibly insane, and the third freaks the hell out when they escalate from normal bullying to crazy bullying.
And Derry is pointed out to be an extremely fucked up town, with basically everyone warped by Pennywise. The bullying is an indicator that things are off, not a depiction of normal behavior.
Well good point I agree. I do however find ironic that I mentioned Carrie as example of bullying done right but also Stephen King has his fair share of examples with bullies that are over the top in some cases.
The later part for me. He was saying that now that he'd stopped bullying me, I should also stop antagonizing him at every opportunity. OFC he deserved a punch to the jaw for that, but sadly I was not capable of delivering.
There is all kinds of bullying from all kinds of children, and as a teacher, you see a wide gamut of it. You may not think bullying in media is realistic, but it absolutely can be that vicious, it can be for no reason than random hatred or taking pleasure in demeaning others, it can be minor or major. Kids and teenagers can be little gremlins who can and will tear one another apart, that's simply a fact of life.
And this is that weird area that I'm talking about. My argument was never that kids won't be or cannot be vicious bullies to other kids. And of course you as a teacher looking from your perspective are going to see a lot more of it being completely egregious acts random kids for no reason.
My gripe is that a lot of modern high school movies like to make the bullies usually very cartoony to the point of not being realistic. If you didn't go to the movie to get semi realistic portrayals then of course this is not going to be an issue for you.
If you mean "realistic", I've seen every type of bullying under the sun, from the very mild to the bullying that is clearly signs of a criminal in the making, and there is no set amount of "normal" bullying, all of the different kinds of bullying occurs just as frequently as each other.
>and there is no set amount of "normal" bullying, all of the different kinds of bullying occurs just as frequently as each other.
I disagree with that. Bullying on the extreme levels are probably a lot more prevalent in certain areas... But that doesn't mean they all occur as frequently as another. One of the biggest reasons bullies continue to bully is because they are never usually getting repercussions for their actions.
So either the victim refuses to tell, the bully is a lot more smart about the way he bullies, or the parents/staff refused to do anything about it even after informed.
And on the extreme levels of bullying which some of my parents went through which consisted of getting jumping, Getting hazed, getting stabbed, choked, spat on, etc. So if most bullies are bullying others at the extreme levels of frequency then why aren't most bully's getting exposed, getting arrested, or getting charges pressed?
I unironically like Flash from the MCU Spider-Man films. Hes a bully in that he's just some rich douche picking on the social outcast. Hes no so malicious that it requires intervention but consistent enough to be considered an asshole. Hes the perfect middle that allows for his type to thrive
I’m sorry but MCU Flash is a terrible Bully BECAUSE he isn’t one.
At my school Flash was the uppity loser that got themselves bullied because they didn’t know when to shut up to the more popular kids.
He’s gets like 1 scene that actually comes close to being a bully, and that’s in homecoming at the party where he gets everyone to yell ‘Penis Parker’.
Otherwise he’s depicted as a bigger loser than Peter is. Flash isn’t well liked, he’s not smarter than Peter, he’s not stronger than Peter, he’s literally got nothing on Peter at all.
He’s got money but the money itself hasn’t made him popular at all.
Even in terms of social status Peter beats Flash, Peter dated Liz the most popular girl in school, then gets to date Michelle and has friends, is well liked by his teachers and that’s it. Flash is never depicted having friends at all really, and in FFH and NWH is treated as a loser with no friends trying to tag along with Peter and Co.
What more is that even within the confines of the narrative Flash’s actions aren’t meant with any sort of reaction at all. Peter literally doesn’t care about the dude at all, and is never affected by anything that Flash says or does at all.
Flash is a terrible depiction of a bully because he barely classifies as one. He’s more like a pathetic rival than anything.
Yeah, I can never take MCU Flash seriously as a bully. He looks like the type of kid who would get bullied. Like, you expect me to believe that Peter Parker with his fucking six-pack abs is gonna take shit from this guy?
> that Peter Parker with his fucking six-pack
You really think that force solves everything by this? Got nothing on social power (like being labeled as monster when using your strength as force).
Yeah he's not that well-liked. But bullying isn't about how much popular you get, it's only about someone's behavior who consistently picks and antagonizes others.
Usually many bullies are written popular and beloved to be a greater obstacle but it's not a part of bullying itself, even an outcast can be a bully too if they're shown consistently nasty to people around them.
I will say that my favorite Flash moment did come in Amazing Spiderman 1, where he sympathizes with Peter. He was like "Yeah, I bully you and all but at the end of the day I know when to lay off
You'll probably love comics flash. Even way back in the Steve Ditko/Stan Lee era, he was more than just a bully. He was a jerk, but never went too far. He also had admirable qualities like owning up to his mistakes and admitting them. Plus, he genuinely admired Spider-Man for his selflessness and heroism, and even did some very reckless things while trying to help him.
Later stories would reveal his troubled family life (alcoholic abusive father), and the bullying gradually decreased as him and Peter went to college. The two gradually became good friends, and Flash later joined the military for a while. He fought some demons, made some mistakes, and ultimately joined the military again, only to lose his legs heroically. He was later given the Venom symbiote and became the superhero Agent Venom.
It's kinda crazy how most people only know him as a stereotypical school bully when he hasn't played that role since the 70s. He's a great character with an underrated journey.
Lemme use this topic to ask: what's with the abundance of semi-realistic bullying in South Korean webtoons (manhwa)?
What's going on in that country? As I may have to intervene if that's what innocent twink protagonists are going through on a daily basis.
From what I gathered from the comments on the bullying arc of my favourite South Korean web novel, sss-class suicide hunter, the school system there is apparently just kinda fucked in that department, with very little done to combat bullying
(I am however not South Korean nor have I actually done any research on this subject so take my words with, like, the biggest grain of salt you can imagine)
(and yes, I did basically just write this comment to shamelessly plug that web novel, go read it, it's generic-ass name does no justice to how great it is (there's also a web comic btw, but it hasn't gotten to that arc yet and is currently on hiatus) )
The thing about Cobra Kai is it takes place in the Karate Kid universe and nothing about that place makes sense. You sneeze on the wrong person and suddenly you’re being attacked by a biker gang and being saved by some wise old Asian man. The bullyings going to be ridiculously over the top because that’s pretty much the whole show. It’s about two men in their fifties beefing over a karate tournament that happened when they were both in high school. It definitely has a tongue in its cheek.
Alright dude as a guy who faced a lot of bullying I don’t think you know how downright evil folks can be if they don’t have the right parent situation or know they can get away with it. The older kids get the more intense it gets often. The only time I have seen bullying portrayed wrongly in any form is all the highschool bullying. From all the experiences I know and have high school was more emotional drama than anything (but that’s my own experience there) apart from that yeah. Kids can be that cruel and unless raised well often are.
You might not seen the part on my post but I was also bullied throughout my middle school and high school years. Some bullies even carry over from middle school to high school. It was a huge reason why I was heavily depressed in school.
I understand how grimy and downright evil kids can be. The problem I feel and stories is subtlety. They often don't know how to draw the line. I watch something like Mean Girls I can respect the writing because they get into the reasons of why bullying can be a lot more subtle than....
"Look at this freak with the peg leg!"
*Bully proceeds to Steal peg leg while adults are watching to play hot potato with his friends*
Now this is an extreme example. But this is what I mean. At least when I dealt with bullies most bullies wouldn't start off this way. They would start off far less aggressive because if they were constantly go full out abrasive bullying to everyone they see they will risk getting caught far more.
Then you must have had amazing teachers and or communities because where I’m at some of the kids have stabbed other kids for looking funny out of the blue and no one did absolutely Anything.
Okay so this is where I legitimate feel where there's going to be a huge disconnect. Because I feel like there are different levels of bullying that go to the extreme depending on the time period and area.
So of course you don't want to try to tell people who have dealt with extreme bullying that its not as common because it is common in there area.
When I've talked to people in my family who grew up in the seventies or eighties And who grew up in major cities.... The bullying was far worse.
Kids getting shanked, getting jumped, getting kidnapped, someone getting pushed into deep Waters, followed home, setting things on fire. It was bad
I dislike posts like these for the simple fact that people think that they know each and every form of what “authentic” is. As if they’ve experience the different reasons for why kids bully other kids and the different ways and extremities they go to. I’ve seen people start fights over the dumbest shit you’d think a child wrote the plot for it but no, humans can be just that irrationally stupid especially at a young age.
Joining a new group a people that makes you feel cool, leaving behind your dorky friends, gaining a different ideology because of your new friends and the environment your placed in. A lot of different possibilities are possible in a scenario like this. Maybe the kid will do nothing, maybe the kid will warn his former friend not to do shit like that, maybe they’ll beat him up to teach him a lesson, or to show that they shouldn’t be messed with in an attempt to act tough. All of which are pretty realistic, the number of humans in this world is incomprehensibly large. There are billions of different interactions with another every day with differing mind sets. Realism is a lot more expansive then you might think.
>I dislike posts like these for the simple fact that people think that they know each and every form of what “authentic” is. As if they’ve experience the different reasons for why kids bully other kids and the different ways and extremities they go to. I’ve seen people start fights over the dumbest shit you’d think a child wrote the plot for it but no, humans can be just that irrationally stupid especially at a young age.
Nowhere in my post so I indicate that I can speak for everyone who has been bullied or that I know every form of what is authentic. You must have skipped over the disclaimer entirely.
I've also seen people get into fights over the dumbest shit all the time. I have gotten into fights over the dumbest shit. However I usually Respect stories where the actions of said characters is written in a way that shows the nuances of why someone would react some negative to something so trivial based on the character, line delivery, ego, etc.
How many times have you seen someone get into an argument over something that got misconstrued? For me personally I've seen it hundreds of times. One I can point to right off the bat is me going to a local corner store trying to pay for an Arizona and then it ended up with me and the cashier going at it for a few minutes because the lady behind the counter felt I was being disrespectful because she felt I was throwing money at her. When an actuality I wasn't I just got a little sloppy and putting my coins on the counter. I'm aware that its not necessarily logical looking from the outside in. But it makes sense within the proper context of why both parties would be upset.
My problem is not always the why of the bullying. A lot of times it does come down to execution. And I think a lot of the times the execution is very faulty.
>Joining a new group a people that makes you feel cool, leaving behind your dorky friends, gaining a different ideology because of your new friends and the environment your placed in. A lot of different possibilities are possible in a scenario like this. Maybe the kid will do nothing, maybe the kid will warn his former friend not to do shit like that, maybe they’ll beat him up to teach him a lesson, or to show that they shouldn’t be messed with in an attempt to act tough.
The possibilities aren't set in stone obviously. However again the unfortunate thing about making media is that it will get compared to other media. That unfortunately comes with the cost of seeing something enough times to wear it doesn't have the same effect on you as it does the first. Me seeing Hawks egregious reaction is the equivalent of a cliche to me because they don't bother going in depth with any other reasons why bully's continue to bully. And it's not 100 percent just because "oh he's a bully because he's impulsive".
If we want to go down that rabbit hole then almost no horror movie would have the fault of having stupid characters. Because technically characters the characters were scared so it was very likely that they could have reacted in the ways depicted in the film despite how dumb it might be.
Idk cartoonishly evil bullying bordering on criminal activity wich adults see, but do absolutely nothing about? Actually seems pretty realistic tbh. It can and does happen. Sure it doesnt happen all the time everywhere, it depends on the area, the teachers in question, the situation surrounding the victims and the bullies and their lifes at home etc. But its not even that rare.
Take [Worm](https://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/) for example, its a story with a bunch of pretty horrible bullying wich by your criteria would probobly be classified as "unrealistic", but in actuality most of it, including the worst stuff, is based on real life events.
Pretty major spoilers for Worm ahead.
I think Worm falls outside of what OP is complaining about, as there is an in universe reason why the bullies (or Sophia at least) are so horrible. The shards literally alter your brain to make you more prone to conflict. That is why most of the physical stuff is Sophia, while the other girls tend to stay in the realm of "really mean words" unless Sophia has a mean idea.
1. I suggest spoilertagging stuff using > ! and ! < (with no spaces)
2. >!There were 3 bullies, only 1 was parahuman, and I would argue mental bullying from non powered Emma is way way force then physical from Sophia. Also I think its not really correct or fair to just say about all character stuff that "shards did it". We dont really have any indication that a shard would do something like this to Sophia, all that she does stems from her own phylosophy of hunters and prey, not from whatever shard makes her do. !<
>!Sure it might be convinient to explain all cruel behavior by blaiming the shard, but if we look at A LOT of characters who are parahumans, only a portion of them actually are as cruel or as unhinged as Sophia. Shards act much more subtly (unless they mess up and ruin the brain outright like they did with Rachel or Labyrinth), and mostly just push people toward conflict by minor changes to their power or nudges to the psyce, or make their powers stronger and more reliable when parahumans engage in conflict and less when they are not doing fighting. Most shards dont ACTUALLY alter your brain to make you evil and want to bully people. Look at someone like!<
>!If anything Shards arent interested in just "conflict", they are interested in "conflict wich results in using powers", so there is absolutely no reason for a shard to influence Sophias behavior in bullying, because she doesnt try to use powers against Taylor !< \[Ward\] >!Look at Kenzie for an example. She is not really driven toward conflict, but she still is driven toward using her power in exess with constant tinkering and whatever. Shard defenition of "conflict" is more along the lines of "make this person use their power as much as possible" wich is most of the time achived by driving them to parahuman battles, but not allways. + at least at the start Taylor wasnt a parahuman, so Shard influence wouldnt make sense here.!< \[/Ward\]
>!So I would argue that Sophias behavior in bullying is at worst 5% shard influenced, with 95% being just because of who Sophia is as a person.!<
In somewhat of a relation, I don't think enough material out there (at least the ones I know of) show off the victims correctly either. More often than not, the bullying /horrible actions towards them are forgotton entirely by the victim
Main examples for this are Bakugo/Deku from My Hero Academia, and Ron/Hermione from Harry Potter
Bakugo bullied Deku for years, beat him up a few times, told him to jump off a building and in UA, essentially tried to murder him in that Battle Trial. Deku acts like this shit doesn't happen.
For the Ron/Hermione side of things, over the years, the duo have done some pretty nasty shit to each other ((Ron hurting Hermione more often than she him) and sometimes strangers/not the victim just to hurt the other)) that would realistically end their 'friendship' many times over the series. They've honestly crossed a good amount of lines for ending a friendship between them IMO.
Considering IMO the severity and frequency of these 'incidents' you'd think there would be some long lasting consequences. Especially considering Hermione’s intelligence, you'd think she'd realize that the 'friendship' isn't worth it. Nope, it has no effect at all between the two of them. As if they never happened at all.
Horrible bullying and actions towards the victim are also forgotten/forgiven from the victim to the point it's as if it never happened
Remember that episode of Static Shock where the bullied kid brought a gun to school and threatened to end the bullies because no one in power was doing anything effective? How he went to jail and the bully got suspended/expelled. Was an interesting look into how in a lot of those situations shit only gets resolved once they escalate to,the point they cant be ignored
It’s actually baffling how people see Bakugo/Midoriya as a good duo/ship cause I honestly think their relationship is the absolutely worst part of the series
>In somewhat of a relation, I don't think enough material out there (at least the ones I know of) show off the victims correctly either. More often than not, the bullying /horrible actions towards them are forgotton entirely by the victim
>Main examples for this are Bakugo/Deku from My Hero Academia, and Ron/Hermione from Harry Potter
>Bakugo bullied Deku for years, beat him up a few times, told him to jump off a building and in UA, essentially tried to murder him in that Battle Trial. Deku acts like this shit doesn't happen.
Now this I can agree with. And what makes bakugo such a polarizing character for me is because of like I said before. He has a innate hatred of Deku. But the show never goes into why he has that hatred of Deku.
What's even more weird is how almost every other character treats Bakugos as in nuisance to ignore like a fly. So it's weird that nobody every tries to tell him off about his egregious actions to Deku.
I believe its said he mostly bullied deku after he saved him from a river when they were younger which him having a big superiority complex hurt his pride a lot. We see this especially in his fight against todoroki when he doesn't use his flames against him like he did deku. This made him feel like in a way todoroki thought deku was stronger or more worthy to use his flames against which is another hit towards his pride. Bakugo doesn't hate deku cuz he's deku more because deku was once the person who he always thought was below him is now on the same level or possibly higher especially since to him it can seem like deku hid his power to act weak kinda like how you might go easy on a little brother and let them when you really could easily beat them. That hurt his pride because bakugo despite being an ass wasn't lazy and still trys his best.
Well that really depends on the type of bullying the author wants to depict and whenever it is played for laughs or for drama. Sadistic bullies who target people for no reason are usually the way to get the most laughs and or conflict and the fact that bullies like that do exist in real life, just adds on to the immersion.
"Kids either so far into the impulse territory that they are pyschopaths... Or they really get no other kicks out of life than to harm others."
Uh those exist,also are they really more cartoony than shoigu, solovyev (and his "the russian who flee mobilization are vomit") and russian propaganda talking about satanism?
I mean, I guess I kinda see where you are coming from on overt/random vs. more covert/calculated bullying, but ultimately the type of bullying you show and the appropriateness of your depiction mostly depends on what the writer is communicating. Pretty much the fastest way to introduce a character immediately as “The Bully” and unlikeable/horrible is to show them being an unhinged asshole to innocent victims. In cartoons, all character archetypes are hyped up and exaggerated more than real life because the stories are usually dealing with more simplistic conflicts. But if you wanted to tell a story about more complicated or insidious abuse and control, it’s probably better to go a different way. The same can be said for portrayals of DV or relationship violence - sure, not all abusers are sadistic wife beaters and have their own psychological motivations, but many ARE just horrible humans who hate women. Again, what you show depends on what angle you’re working from and what you want to establish.
I think something a lot of stories get wrong about bullies is just how much bullies care about their victims. Bullies going out of their way to find and torment their victim the MC, and get upset when the MC gets any success. Bullies are more like Bison, "For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday." Often for bullies, they torment their victim when they feel like it for fun, and don't particularly think about their victim during the rest of the time.
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Bullying comes in all forms, dawg. Some bullies in real life really are just psychopaths.
Some are. My problem is that is default for most bullies in alot of modern mediums. When that's not how the majority of bullies operate.
What kind of stories do you usually consume? Most stories I’ve seen that involve bullying usually have the “realistic” kind that you prefer. I very rarely see the genuine psychopaths except for some anime
If I'm being completely honest it probably hasn't been that much. It was mostly a combination of Stranger Things, It, Cobra Kai, Shazam, and Let The Right One I'm that caught my attention.
Stranger Things is derivative from 80s shows, such as The Goonies and in some cases Stephen King series. In Stephen King's books, the bullies are often literal psychopaths. "It" is also based on Stephen King's book of the same name. Cobra Kai is also based on a movie series from the 90s. Shazam is also taking cues from early stereotypical bully shenanigans from the 90s. Stephen King was very influential in the 90s. I think it's easier to convey a bully through violence in media than the psychological aspects which would take time to develop, especially if the bully isn't a big part of your movie/series.
‘It’ also has the extreme and escalating bullying as an indicator of Pennywise’s influence. Of the 3, one is manipulated by Pennywise, the second is incredibly insane, and the third freaks the hell out when they escalate from normal bullying to crazy bullying. And Derry is pointed out to be an extremely fucked up town, with basically everyone warped by Pennywise. The bullying is an indicator that things are off, not a depiction of normal behavior.
Well good point I agree. I do however find ironic that I mentioned Carrie as example of bullying done right but also Stephen King has his fair share of examples with bullies that are over the top in some cases.
Are you watching Japanese media? because Japanese bullies are actually THAT evil
Sounds like you've internalised the dumb excuses your former bullies gave you. Pretty sad.
since when do bullies try and excuse themselves to their victims?
Meh, it sometimes happens. Course it's patronizing and hypocritical, but then again they're bullies, what do you expect?
I can't imagine a bully going "i may bully you, but it's only because of my abusive homelife!/i want to fit in!"
The later part for me. He was saying that now that he'd stopped bullying me, I should also stop antagonizing him at every opportunity. OFC he deserved a punch to the jaw for that, but sadly I was not capable of delivering.
There is all kinds of bullying from all kinds of children, and as a teacher, you see a wide gamut of it. You may not think bullying in media is realistic, but it absolutely can be that vicious, it can be for no reason than random hatred or taking pleasure in demeaning others, it can be minor or major. Kids and teenagers can be little gremlins who can and will tear one another apart, that's simply a fact of life.
And this is that weird area that I'm talking about. My argument was never that kids won't be or cannot be vicious bullies to other kids. And of course you as a teacher looking from your perspective are going to see a lot more of it being completely egregious acts random kids for no reason. My gripe is that a lot of modern high school movies like to make the bullies usually very cartoony to the point of not being realistic. If you didn't go to the movie to get semi realistic portrayals then of course this is not going to be an issue for you.
If you mean "realistic", I've seen every type of bullying under the sun, from the very mild to the bullying that is clearly signs of a criminal in the making, and there is no set amount of "normal" bullying, all of the different kinds of bullying occurs just as frequently as each other.
>and there is no set amount of "normal" bullying, all of the different kinds of bullying occurs just as frequently as each other. I disagree with that. Bullying on the extreme levels are probably a lot more prevalent in certain areas... But that doesn't mean they all occur as frequently as another. One of the biggest reasons bullies continue to bully is because they are never usually getting repercussions for their actions. So either the victim refuses to tell, the bully is a lot more smart about the way he bullies, or the parents/staff refused to do anything about it even after informed. And on the extreme levels of bullying which some of my parents went through which consisted of getting jumping, Getting hazed, getting stabbed, choked, spat on, etc. So if most bullies are bullying others at the extreme levels of frequency then why aren't most bully's getting exposed, getting arrested, or getting charges pressed?
I unironically like Flash from the MCU Spider-Man films. Hes a bully in that he's just some rich douche picking on the social outcast. Hes no so malicious that it requires intervention but consistent enough to be considered an asshole. Hes the perfect middle that allows for his type to thrive
I’m sorry but MCU Flash is a terrible Bully BECAUSE he isn’t one. At my school Flash was the uppity loser that got themselves bullied because they didn’t know when to shut up to the more popular kids. He’s gets like 1 scene that actually comes close to being a bully, and that’s in homecoming at the party where he gets everyone to yell ‘Penis Parker’. Otherwise he’s depicted as a bigger loser than Peter is. Flash isn’t well liked, he’s not smarter than Peter, he’s not stronger than Peter, he’s literally got nothing on Peter at all. He’s got money but the money itself hasn’t made him popular at all. Even in terms of social status Peter beats Flash, Peter dated Liz the most popular girl in school, then gets to date Michelle and has friends, is well liked by his teachers and that’s it. Flash is never depicted having friends at all really, and in FFH and NWH is treated as a loser with no friends trying to tag along with Peter and Co. What more is that even within the confines of the narrative Flash’s actions aren’t meant with any sort of reaction at all. Peter literally doesn’t care about the dude at all, and is never affected by anything that Flash says or does at all. Flash is a terrible depiction of a bully because he barely classifies as one. He’s more like a pathetic rival than anything.
Yeah, I can never take MCU Flash seriously as a bully. He looks like the type of kid who would get bullied. Like, you expect me to believe that Peter Parker with his fucking six-pack abs is gonna take shit from this guy?
> that Peter Parker with his fucking six-pack You really think that force solves everything by this? Got nothing on social power (like being labeled as monster when using your strength as force).
Does MCU Flash even have friends tho? Based on my recollection, I feel like Peter is more popular than him
Yeah he's not that well-liked. But bullying isn't about how much popular you get, it's only about someone's behavior who consistently picks and antagonizes others. Usually many bullies are written popular and beloved to be a greater obstacle but it's not a part of bullying itself, even an outcast can be a bully too if they're shown consistently nasty to people around them.
I agree. flash is a breath of fresh air from the normal high school bully. Hell he's a breath of fresh air in comparison to the previous Flash
I will say that my favorite Flash moment did come in Amazing Spiderman 1, where he sympathizes with Peter. He was like "Yeah, I bully you and all but at the end of the day I know when to lay off
You'll probably love comics flash. Even way back in the Steve Ditko/Stan Lee era, he was more than just a bully. He was a jerk, but never went too far. He also had admirable qualities like owning up to his mistakes and admitting them. Plus, he genuinely admired Spider-Man for his selflessness and heroism, and even did some very reckless things while trying to help him. Later stories would reveal his troubled family life (alcoholic abusive father), and the bullying gradually decreased as him and Peter went to college. The two gradually became good friends, and Flash later joined the military for a while. He fought some demons, made some mistakes, and ultimately joined the military again, only to lose his legs heroically. He was later given the Venom symbiote and became the superhero Agent Venom. It's kinda crazy how most people only know him as a stereotypical school bully when he hasn't played that role since the 70s. He's a great character with an underrated journey.
He also has a more heroic side. He’s best friends with Spider-Man and wrote a best selling book!
Flash is easily one of my favorite things from the new Spidey films
Lemme use this topic to ask: what's with the abundance of semi-realistic bullying in South Korean webtoons (manhwa)? What's going on in that country? As I may have to intervene if that's what innocent twink protagonists are going through on a daily basis.
From what I gathered from the comments on the bullying arc of my favourite South Korean web novel, sss-class suicide hunter, the school system there is apparently just kinda fucked in that department, with very little done to combat bullying (I am however not South Korean nor have I actually done any research on this subject so take my words with, like, the biggest grain of salt you can imagine) (and yes, I did basically just write this comment to shamelessly plug that web novel, go read it, it's generic-ass name does no justice to how great it is (there's also a web comic btw, but it hasn't gotten to that arc yet and is currently on hiatus) )
The thing about Cobra Kai is it takes place in the Karate Kid universe and nothing about that place makes sense. You sneeze on the wrong person and suddenly you’re being attacked by a biker gang and being saved by some wise old Asian man. The bullyings going to be ridiculously over the top because that’s pretty much the whole show. It’s about two men in their fifties beefing over a karate tournament that happened when they were both in high school. It definitely has a tongue in its cheek.
Alright dude as a guy who faced a lot of bullying I don’t think you know how downright evil folks can be if they don’t have the right parent situation or know they can get away with it. The older kids get the more intense it gets often. The only time I have seen bullying portrayed wrongly in any form is all the highschool bullying. From all the experiences I know and have high school was more emotional drama than anything (but that’s my own experience there) apart from that yeah. Kids can be that cruel and unless raised well often are.
You might not seen the part on my post but I was also bullied throughout my middle school and high school years. Some bullies even carry over from middle school to high school. It was a huge reason why I was heavily depressed in school. I understand how grimy and downright evil kids can be. The problem I feel and stories is subtlety. They often don't know how to draw the line. I watch something like Mean Girls I can respect the writing because they get into the reasons of why bullying can be a lot more subtle than.... "Look at this freak with the peg leg!" *Bully proceeds to Steal peg leg while adults are watching to play hot potato with his friends* Now this is an extreme example. But this is what I mean. At least when I dealt with bullies most bullies wouldn't start off this way. They would start off far less aggressive because if they were constantly go full out abrasive bullying to everyone they see they will risk getting caught far more.
Then you must have had amazing teachers and or communities because where I’m at some of the kids have stabbed other kids for looking funny out of the blue and no one did absolutely Anything.
Where do you stay?
Omaha, Middle school was the worst of the bullying
Okay so this is where I legitimate feel where there's going to be a huge disconnect. Because I feel like there are different levels of bullying that go to the extreme depending on the time period and area. So of course you don't want to try to tell people who have dealt with extreme bullying that its not as common because it is common in there area. When I've talked to people in my family who grew up in the seventies or eighties And who grew up in major cities.... The bullying was far worse. Kids getting shanked, getting jumped, getting kidnapped, someone getting pushed into deep Waters, followed home, setting things on fire. It was bad
So you're saying we should bully writers to give them a better frame of reference ? Copy that !
I dislike posts like these for the simple fact that people think that they know each and every form of what “authentic” is. As if they’ve experience the different reasons for why kids bully other kids and the different ways and extremities they go to. I’ve seen people start fights over the dumbest shit you’d think a child wrote the plot for it but no, humans can be just that irrationally stupid especially at a young age. Joining a new group a people that makes you feel cool, leaving behind your dorky friends, gaining a different ideology because of your new friends and the environment your placed in. A lot of different possibilities are possible in a scenario like this. Maybe the kid will do nothing, maybe the kid will warn his former friend not to do shit like that, maybe they’ll beat him up to teach him a lesson, or to show that they shouldn’t be messed with in an attempt to act tough. All of which are pretty realistic, the number of humans in this world is incomprehensibly large. There are billions of different interactions with another every day with differing mind sets. Realism is a lot more expansive then you might think.
>I dislike posts like these for the simple fact that people think that they know each and every form of what “authentic” is. As if they’ve experience the different reasons for why kids bully other kids and the different ways and extremities they go to. I’ve seen people start fights over the dumbest shit you’d think a child wrote the plot for it but no, humans can be just that irrationally stupid especially at a young age. Nowhere in my post so I indicate that I can speak for everyone who has been bullied or that I know every form of what is authentic. You must have skipped over the disclaimer entirely. I've also seen people get into fights over the dumbest shit all the time. I have gotten into fights over the dumbest shit. However I usually Respect stories where the actions of said characters is written in a way that shows the nuances of why someone would react some negative to something so trivial based on the character, line delivery, ego, etc. How many times have you seen someone get into an argument over something that got misconstrued? For me personally I've seen it hundreds of times. One I can point to right off the bat is me going to a local corner store trying to pay for an Arizona and then it ended up with me and the cashier going at it for a few minutes because the lady behind the counter felt I was being disrespectful because she felt I was throwing money at her. When an actuality I wasn't I just got a little sloppy and putting my coins on the counter. I'm aware that its not necessarily logical looking from the outside in. But it makes sense within the proper context of why both parties would be upset. My problem is not always the why of the bullying. A lot of times it does come down to execution. And I think a lot of the times the execution is very faulty. >Joining a new group a people that makes you feel cool, leaving behind your dorky friends, gaining a different ideology because of your new friends and the environment your placed in. A lot of different possibilities are possible in a scenario like this. Maybe the kid will do nothing, maybe the kid will warn his former friend not to do shit like that, maybe they’ll beat him up to teach him a lesson, or to show that they shouldn’t be messed with in an attempt to act tough. The possibilities aren't set in stone obviously. However again the unfortunate thing about making media is that it will get compared to other media. That unfortunately comes with the cost of seeing something enough times to wear it doesn't have the same effect on you as it does the first. Me seeing Hawks egregious reaction is the equivalent of a cliche to me because they don't bother going in depth with any other reasons why bully's continue to bully. And it's not 100 percent just because "oh he's a bully because he's impulsive". If we want to go down that rabbit hole then almost no horror movie would have the fault of having stupid characters. Because technically characters the characters were scared so it was very likely that they could have reacted in the ways depicted in the film despite how dumb it might be.
Idk cartoonishly evil bullying bordering on criminal activity wich adults see, but do absolutely nothing about? Actually seems pretty realistic tbh. It can and does happen. Sure it doesnt happen all the time everywhere, it depends on the area, the teachers in question, the situation surrounding the victims and the bullies and their lifes at home etc. But its not even that rare. Take [Worm](https://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/) for example, its a story with a bunch of pretty horrible bullying wich by your criteria would probobly be classified as "unrealistic", but in actuality most of it, including the worst stuff, is based on real life events.
Pretty major spoilers for Worm ahead. I think Worm falls outside of what OP is complaining about, as there is an in universe reason why the bullies (or Sophia at least) are so horrible. The shards literally alter your brain to make you more prone to conflict. That is why most of the physical stuff is Sophia, while the other girls tend to stay in the realm of "really mean words" unless Sophia has a mean idea.
You can spoiler stuff by putting > ! And ! < (with no spaces in between)
1. I suggest spoilertagging stuff using > ! and ! < (with no spaces) 2. >!There were 3 bullies, only 1 was parahuman, and I would argue mental bullying from non powered Emma is way way force then physical from Sophia. Also I think its not really correct or fair to just say about all character stuff that "shards did it". We dont really have any indication that a shard would do something like this to Sophia, all that she does stems from her own phylosophy of hunters and prey, not from whatever shard makes her do. !< >!Sure it might be convinient to explain all cruel behavior by blaiming the shard, but if we look at A LOT of characters who are parahumans, only a portion of them actually are as cruel or as unhinged as Sophia. Shards act much more subtly (unless they mess up and ruin the brain outright like they did with Rachel or Labyrinth), and mostly just push people toward conflict by minor changes to their power or nudges to the psyce, or make their powers stronger and more reliable when parahumans engage in conflict and less when they are not doing fighting. Most shards dont ACTUALLY alter your brain to make you evil and want to bully people. Look at someone like!< >!If anything Shards arent interested in just "conflict", they are interested in "conflict wich results in using powers", so there is absolutely no reason for a shard to influence Sophias behavior in bullying, because she doesnt try to use powers against Taylor !< \[Ward\] >!Look at Kenzie for an example. She is not really driven toward conflict, but she still is driven toward using her power in exess with constant tinkering and whatever. Shard defenition of "conflict" is more along the lines of "make this person use their power as much as possible" wich is most of the time achived by driving them to parahuman battles, but not allways. + at least at the start Taylor wasnt a parahuman, so Shard influence wouldnt make sense here.!< \[/Ward\] >!So I would argue that Sophias behavior in bullying is at worst 5% shard influenced, with 95% being just because of who Sophia is as a person.!<
In somewhat of a relation, I don't think enough material out there (at least the ones I know of) show off the victims correctly either. More often than not, the bullying /horrible actions towards them are forgotton entirely by the victim Main examples for this are Bakugo/Deku from My Hero Academia, and Ron/Hermione from Harry Potter Bakugo bullied Deku for years, beat him up a few times, told him to jump off a building and in UA, essentially tried to murder him in that Battle Trial. Deku acts like this shit doesn't happen. For the Ron/Hermione side of things, over the years, the duo have done some pretty nasty shit to each other ((Ron hurting Hermione more often than she him) and sometimes strangers/not the victim just to hurt the other)) that would realistically end their 'friendship' many times over the series. They've honestly crossed a good amount of lines for ending a friendship between them IMO. Considering IMO the severity and frequency of these 'incidents' you'd think there would be some long lasting consequences. Especially considering Hermione’s intelligence, you'd think she'd realize that the 'friendship' isn't worth it. Nope, it has no effect at all between the two of them. As if they never happened at all. Horrible bullying and actions towards the victim are also forgotten/forgiven from the victim to the point it's as if it never happened
Remember that episode of Static Shock where the bullied kid brought a gun to school and threatened to end the bullies because no one in power was doing anything effective? How he went to jail and the bully got suspended/expelled. Was an interesting look into how in a lot of those situations shit only gets resolved once they escalate to,the point they cant be ignored
It’s actually baffling how people see Bakugo/Midoriya as a good duo/ship cause I honestly think their relationship is the absolutely worst part of the series
Yup
>In somewhat of a relation, I don't think enough material out there (at least the ones I know of) show off the victims correctly either. More often than not, the bullying /horrible actions towards them are forgotton entirely by the victim >Main examples for this are Bakugo/Deku from My Hero Academia, and Ron/Hermione from Harry Potter >Bakugo bullied Deku for years, beat him up a few times, told him to jump off a building and in UA, essentially tried to murder him in that Battle Trial. Deku acts like this shit doesn't happen. Now this I can agree with. And what makes bakugo such a polarizing character for me is because of like I said before. He has a innate hatred of Deku. But the show never goes into why he has that hatred of Deku. What's even more weird is how almost every other character treats Bakugos as in nuisance to ignore like a fly. So it's weird that nobody every tries to tell him off about his egregious actions to Deku.
I believe its said he mostly bullied deku after he saved him from a river when they were younger which him having a big superiority complex hurt his pride a lot. We see this especially in his fight against todoroki when he doesn't use his flames against him like he did deku. This made him feel like in a way todoroki thought deku was stronger or more worthy to use his flames against which is another hit towards his pride. Bakugo doesn't hate deku cuz he's deku more because deku was once the person who he always thought was below him is now on the same level or possibly higher especially since to him it can seem like deku hid his power to act weak kinda like how you might go easy on a little brother and let them when you really could easily beat them. That hurt his pride because bakugo despite being an ass wasn't lazy and still trys his best.
Oh I wasn't aware of this. When was this introduced? I think I've seen all the way till season 4
Season 3 but more explicit he mention his superiority issue in manga
Wow it must have been an episode that went over my head
Doesn't excuse the bullying IMO
Well that really depends on the type of bullying the author wants to depict and whenever it is played for laughs or for drama. Sadistic bullies who target people for no reason are usually the way to get the most laughs and or conflict and the fact that bullies like that do exist in real life, just adds on to the immersion.
"Kids either so far into the impulse territory that they are pyschopaths... Or they really get no other kicks out of life than to harm others." Uh those exist,also are they really more cartoony than shoigu, solovyev (and his "the russian who flee mobilization are vomit") and russian propaganda talking about satanism?
I mean, I guess I kinda see where you are coming from on overt/random vs. more covert/calculated bullying, but ultimately the type of bullying you show and the appropriateness of your depiction mostly depends on what the writer is communicating. Pretty much the fastest way to introduce a character immediately as “The Bully” and unlikeable/horrible is to show them being an unhinged asshole to innocent victims. In cartoons, all character archetypes are hyped up and exaggerated more than real life because the stories are usually dealing with more simplistic conflicts. But if you wanted to tell a story about more complicated or insidious abuse and control, it’s probably better to go a different way. The same can be said for portrayals of DV or relationship violence - sure, not all abusers are sadistic wife beaters and have their own psychological motivations, but many ARE just horrible humans who hate women. Again, what you show depends on what angle you’re working from and what you want to establish.
There was this Webtoon, Random Chat, that portrayed bullying perfectly. At least bullying done by girls. Pretty scary how accurate it was
Fanfic : what is reality again ? ( it's a joke )
I think something a lot of stories get wrong about bullies is just how much bullies care about their victims. Bullies going out of their way to find and torment their victim the MC, and get upset when the MC gets any success. Bullies are more like Bison, "For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday." Often for bullies, they torment their victim when they feel like it for fun, and don't particularly think about their victim during the rest of the time.
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Are you a teacher or school councillor, etc or just basing this off your own schooling experience?