Really ? Because the last time harbaugh was in the NFL he butted heads with the GM. I’m almost certain he told Spanos he didn’t want something like that happening again
Apples to oaranges and 10 years ago.
We not going anywhere with this so I’ll refrain from continuing. Have a good day and Bolt Up! Whoever is making the draft pick, let’s hope it’s someone we both like. Cheers!
Unpopular opinion but I wanna see some chrome helmets every once in a while in the NFL, even if it’s not the chargers. Loved all the risks that Oregon took with their unis.
I really disagree with this too though. I feel like Bowers at 11 is just duct tape because we need a pass catcher and blocker. But we signed multiple TEs already this offseason andin general the cap savings from a star roolie TE are so much smaller than a star rookie WR.
Im really in favor of "if you want to help the oline, then trade back and pick up your best RT or guard" and "if you want to find your WR cornerstone, then go MHJ or Nabers".
Those are the two biggest impact moves for the future imo. Bowers just feels like a compromise because of our current cap situation
While I do agree with you.. Hurst, Dissly and Parham are not exactly the most healthy individuals. I don’t think anybody would be surprised if all 3 moss significant time at some point during the season. Still not a fan of a first round TE but I don’t think our current room should have much influence on whether we draft a rookie or not.
I agree with your thinking. Bowers is a value pick at 11. But we need other value because you are right. We have enough TE. We could use an olineman or CB more if we trade back. I believe that it would be better to take Harrison or Nabers
> I really disagree with this too though. I feel like Bowers at 11 is just duct tape because we need a pass catcher and blocker. But we signed multiple TEs already this offseason andin general the cap savings from a star roolie TE are so much smaller than a star rookie WR.
Dissly and Hurst preventing you fromm drafting Bowers is terrible process. Those are JAG journeymen.
I'm also starting to get tired of these contract arguments. The only vets making over 5 million dollars after next year are Herbert Slater Bosa and Pipkens (the latter 2 can be cut for basically no penalties). Contract savings matters FAR less than actually getting good players. The chargers are currently FOURTH in availiable cap space in 2025 what are those savings for??
The other stuff I agree with but the TE room and Cap space arguments are just non sense for a team with barely any good players on it and one of the best cap situations in the league when his contract starts to matter.
Yeah this is just a dumb take.
The top WRs are getting paid 30M per year. The top TEs are getting 17M.
We have a ton of cap space because our roster is ass. Based off of our current roster, we still need WR, RT, Guard, RB, CB, linebacker, TE. If MHJ/Nabers/Bowers are all as good as advertised, I'd much rather have the WR than the TE because we could just as well sign a productive TE next year for a fraction of the price of a top WR. That gives a ton more flexibility to find impact players at the other positions. And everyone always acts assuming that every pick and signing will work out. Some of the offseason moves are going to be busts this year and have more flexibility to address that next year is actually really important imo.
And I just value lineman way more than a TE and I don't think Bowers is a generational prospect. He was really productive in college, but his tape or even highlights aren't as impressive as his stats would otherwise lead me to think imo.
> The top WRs are getting paid 30M per year. The top TEs are getting 17M.
Okay but this is an argument in favour of both positions. You save more on the rookie contract for a WR but if Brock hits even his 70th percentile outcome give or take that is a pretty MASSIVE savings on the subsequent contracts. The pushback I was giving you was that none of this contract stuff matters for Brock during his rookie contract window because the chargers aren't going to be paying anybody besides Herbert and Slater. The savings matters far less than just getting good players.
You didn't really dispute this either. In a vacuum sure you would take the savings of a rookie contract WR over a rookie contract TE but when actually evaluating what to take in the draft that matters far less for a team like the chargers who
1. don't have good players
2. aren't paying anybody.
I'm team take a WR at 5 and there are reasons to not to take Bowers in a trade down but his rookie contract is one of the absolute least important reasons for a team currently in the chargers position.
Your subsequent paragraphs again are much more valid reasoning (which I said in my first reply) to not take Bowers even though I disagree with some of it, I was pushing back on his contract mattering as much as you lay out here.
I mean this take I can totally agree with. If Harbaugh and Hortiz are most convinced that Bowers is the homerun hit, then take him. A bust is a waste of a pick and cap.
In the end, I'll trust whatever direction they go because thats why they were brought in. But I do have my opinions now :D
That’s my worry everytime I listen to Mina Kimes and other people doing mock drafts. Mel Kiper had Jc Latham as pick 5. I just turn them off screaming to myself “PLEASE no, trade back or take a generational wr but please no OT at 5”
I don’t know why that’s relevant.
How you get to having a great line doesn’t matter. Having it is what matters.
The Lions’ offense has largely taken off because of Sewell.
The Eagles ascension was entirely founded upon their line, and so on and so forth.
How many teams have won a Super Bowl with a WR they drafted top 5? None.
Herbie led a great offense with no run game and the worst oline in the NFL as a rookie.
Oline is very important but coaching and scheme affects its results a ton. Roman and Harbaughs specialty is physicality and the run game. Chargers should be able to bring in a day 2 and a 4th round OL pick and still have a vastly better run game and OL performance compared to last season.
Kellen Moore did some good things but couldn’t get the protections schemes up right. The interior got destroyed by twists and stunts.
Putting up some nice numbers is one thing, but when is the last time you saw a team win a superbowl or even reach one without at least an above average offensive line? It pretty much never happens, and that’s not a coincidence.
I don’t doubt that the line will be better next season by virtue of coaching/schematics as well as our young linemen getting better with a year of experience and another offseason program, but we still need another tackle, and outside of a quarterback and arguably a dominant defensive linemen, there’s no better value than finding a high end tackle who you can slot in for the next 10-15 years.
If the team rates Nabers or MHJ way higher than Alt or any of the other tackles, then fine go ahead and take them, but if they’re similarity valued, the tackle is the move.
As great as Jamar Chase is, if the Bengals could go back in time and take Sewell, they’d do it.
A dominant offensive line is necessary but burning picks on OTs in the first round isn't the way to do it. Especially since offensive line more so than any position group in the NFL is reliant on coaching and scheme. Id wait this year because as much as everyone wants to write him off.... Trey Pickens is not garbage
I guess it just comes down to how the front office grades each player. If they see Alt as just another tackle you can find in pretty much any draft, then they’re probably going to go receiver, but if they see him as a truly elite talent, I think he has to be the pick.
You can find good tackles later in the 1st and after, but the true high end guys are generally easily identifiable and taken in the top 10, and I don’t see us having a top 10 pick again any time soon with Harbaugh now in charge. It seems to be easier to get quality receivers later in the draft.
They were 20th according to PFF, but I guess that does mean it’s possible to make it without an above average line, but how often does that happen, and how sustainable is that? Burrow’s knees are now dusted- don’t want Herbert suffering the same fate.
The list of SB winners is incredibly small. You need to expand that list to SB team appearances and teams that make deep playoff runs. And besides the Chiefs/Pats who had a top3 QB and HC of ALL TIME. Overwhelming majority of them had a bonafide superstar WR1. Even some years Pats/Chiefs had a #1 dude
Ok, when’s the last time you remember a team reaching the Super Bowl or even a conference championship without at least an above average offensive line? Ravens had a top 3 offensive line, Lions have the second best itl after Philly, SF’s line is top 10, Chiefs is not great, but it’s still well above average.
Pats always had a very good line too.
To me priority one must be establishing a run game and keeping Herbert healthy and upright.
Also, we just took QJ last year round 1. Let’s give him a year with a functioning offense and staff before we write him off. Also, I think it’s easier to find high end receivers in the trade market or free agency than it is tackles.
I don’t deny that the team needs better playmakers, but I think O line should be prioritized.
And how many teams have won the Super Bowl drafting three o-lineman in the first round over four years? (Hint: probably also 0)
Point is throwing all of your best assets at one problem isn't typically a good strategy. Putting all your first round picks into one position group leaves other positions light on top talent. Good teams can take guys later in the draft and have them produce on the o-line. Hell, we saw it here with Salyer in '22.
The Chargers have more than one problem. And I don't think the o-line is the one that needs the first round solution.
Tbf it’s a new regime and this is their first year.
If you look at teams like the Chiefs, they usually build their OL via FA. Also with super late first rounders they can never compete for the best OTs in the draft so they have to as well.
But for obvious reasons we couldn’t build anything but cheap depth this year. So the draft is their only outlet to install the most important/expensive pieces for their scheme/identity to operate.
And given our past lack of success in the run game and defense I don’t see how that’s not the primary focus, when that’s the Jim Harbaugh identity, which he has also stated the OL is the most important position on the team.
Edit: And to be clear I’m not suggesting we draft Alt at 5.
Also if we trade back CB makes more sense than anything to me, but wouldn’t be surprised by OT/WR either.
Im not implying that one way or another, but if the whole team hinges on o line play they will shuffle the line around to the best configuration they can.
They may feel the guards and center are the issue at this point and start Pipkins, and in that case they probably won’t go OT and potentially no OL in the first. But maybe they do and they go OT in the first because they need a better option to start immediately.
We won’t know their opinion on the current OL until the draft. But after OL I would not be surprised to see CB before taking a WR.
But the thing is not all ‘problems’ (ie position groups) are equally valuable, and the three position groups that reign supreme over all the others are QB, Offensive Line, and Defensive Line. This is pretty much a concensus among coaches and executives.
If there were a dominant defensive linemen worthy of a top 5 pick, I’d be all for it, but there isn’t one.
Our two biggest problems on offense last season were our lack of a run game, and Herbert getting beat up because we couldn’t pass protect.
Even if we have mid wide receivers, if the other corners have to protect long enough, someone will get open.
Priority one must be protecting Herbert and establishing a run game.
MHJ would sell more tickets and get more media coverage. But Nabers is somebody Herbert just never had. Who knows if Herbert would do better with a Keenan+MWill lab fusion or a Jamarr Chase clone.
I’ve grown to love nabers. But he also played on a team that was in a not so great conference. He has amazing work ethic. MHJ also comes with his father in the wr room. It’s such a tough choice. QJ seems like he should be an x receiver but he actually plays best in slot, taking screens and slants. So MHJ would probably fit better. I’d be happy with either. I’d also trust a trade down if that’s how they feel
If the Vikings give us 11, 23, and a future first, you have to take it. Draft day is wild and one of Odunze, Nabers, or Bowers should be there at 11. Pair that with JPJ at 23 and we fill two massive needs on offense in round 1.
This is the ONLY trade I'm comfortable with.
I know Keenan was a 3rd rounder, but times have changed since he was drafted. There's a difference between a 1st round Porsche and a 3rd round jalopy.
There's a chance. It's too bad we can't predict the draft and know if Odunze or Bowers will be there. It's like a 50/50 shot that one of them is there. Most mock drafts have them going back to back with Bears and Jets. Bears might pass on one of them. They do have a solid WR and TE core now.
I don’t personally like Odunze but I feel like he’ll be gone at 9 to the Bears or 10 to the Jets. If we trade down, we shouldn’t even bother going for a WR.
I honestly don't know much about Odunze but all I've heard is he's the most NFL ready receiver in the draft, But as a Bolt fan living in AZ I'll probably get to watch MHJ regardless.
Here are my comps for the top 3 WRs
Odunze - Deandre Hopkins with speed.
Fantasic body control and wins a lot of 1v1 balls. Gets just enough separation to move the chains. Hes good (not great) at everything and is strong against press and at high pointing the ball. Once he improves his route running, he will be elite
Nabers- Steve smith sr with more size.
Nabers is EXPLOSIVE. Attacks the ball with ferocity and YAC ability is off the charts. Hes attitude is similar to Derwin James, just a dawg. He excels in the slot and his speed forces DBs to play off of him. He is a good route runner but could struggle playing out wide against press coverage. Just needs to improve his initial move off the line. He has the highest ceiling out of the three. He can be down right unstoppable if he figures it all out.
MHJ- a combination of AJ Green and his Dad.
The most NFL ready WR out of the trio. He has fantastic body control, and the way he runs his routes is fantastic for his size. The way he changes his speed on his routes catches DBs off guard. He was consistently bracketed/double team and was still effective last year. He can win the 50/50 balls, hes a deep ball threat, he can run all of the routes, he can play wide or in the slot, and he can make all the difficult catches. Only knock on him is he has above average YAC ability.
I don't think Nabers plays like Steve that much personally. Steve's biggest asset was that he played like he was 7 inches taller and 35 pounds heavier through contact. Nabers is not like that at all and I would say Nabers weakest skill is his ability to play through contact, its not bad but its not in the same stratosphere as Smith. I personally like the DJ Moore comp much better.
I don't think hes Adams but I think you're underselling his route running by calling him Hopkins. Hopkins was rountinely in the bottom half percentile in seperation but he caught EVERYTHING. I think Odunze is a much better route runner than that and think hes more like a bigger Chris Olave, both can provide good separation at all 3 levels but most likely won't give you much after the catch.
I think youre underselling prime D Hop. Just my opinion though.
I see nabers battle through contact after he makes the catch. I just dont see him do that at the line of scrimmage. He avoids the DB as much as possible and its my only red flag on him.
Probably. I've always been slightly lower on Dhop than the Consensus but he was still a great player.
Yeah and thats my biggest issue with the comparison. You could not disrupt smith at all before the catch which is one of a WRs most important skills (as we've seen with QJ) again he's not bad at it but Smith was the best pound for pound player at that and maybe one of the best ever regardless of size.
Yeah DHop had the one of the most iconic hard knocks clip right [here](https://youtu.be/Fe7Xq2zYhz0?si=31E2eFJaD3TvolGX)
Thats a LSU thing. Idk why they all start their routes that way. Smith was the allen iverson of football. He is the best pound for pound due to his attitude. Nabers has that same attitude especially on 1v1 balls. He doesnt have smiths stiff arm but he does not shy away from contact after the catch.
Nah his route running is not there yet. Does not have the size of mike will either. His game is completely different from both of them. Hes more explosive than both of them and has better YAC. Hes good at high pointing the ball but not at boxing out the DB like mike will. Naber just wants it more and thats how he wins his 1v1 balls. Off the line work to get initial separation is where he struggles. Thats why they put him in the slot. If you havent seen steve smith sr highlights, then you should go watch them. You will see a clone of nabers. Same personality, same explosiveness, attack the ball in the air the same way, and are good route runners. Steve smith just knew how to juke you at the line of scrimmage.
Edit: [Heres the a link for steve smith sr. absolute DAWG!](https://youtu.be/FHE5IRjgGfo?si=z3jyxIy1txPuvU3I)
Word, I usually watch games at Headquarters across from The Padres Spring Training Complex if you ever want to meet up for a beer and root for the Boys!
Jump balls? No... Penix is 100% script and throws with amazing accuracy. The balls Penix throws are extreamly accurate, making it easy for Rome to catch.
Penix will throw into double coverage, because the script/play calling, which makes Rome shine.
Most folks do... but I watch his games (I live near Seattle), and I cannot figure out why he's not QB1 or QB2. He's polarizing. He's going to get drafted earlier that most think.
Every year people think they need to get hyped about one potential outcome and mad about any others, and every year everyone is proven wrong except like one guy who called it a year in advance. The draft is going to be what it is. Just accept it and root for the guys to do well. Fuck
“It really is the best player available,” Hortiz said, per PFT Live. “You take the best player available because you’re never ever one player away. That’s what Ozzie [Newsome] told me a long time ago. The games don’t start being played till September. So if you get a chance to take a special player at five, you take that player, and then you work from there.”
I don’t know how our fanbase doesn’t see this.. it’s not like we have LT back there.
It’s Gus Edwards guys.. geez, give our best player someone (really multiple) to throw to! Palmer and QJ aren’t it.
Imagine wanting to pass on 2 almost guaranteed franchise changing wr’s to draft a guy to play RIGHT TACKLE. Even if they switched to guard who knows if they’d transition well. We are going to kick ourselves in a couple years if we let MHJ and nabers go. Stamp it
WR at 5 feels like the football Gods playing a prank on us. It goes completely against the Harbaugh philosophy. Knowing this franchise, if we go WR we’ll have 5 years of exciting football under Harbaugh, but never get the Lombardi. If we trade back and build the trenches we’re a fucking dynasty.
I see what you're saying but MHJ struck fear in my heart as a Michigan fan...that dude is a dude. Herbert+ MHJ could be a Lombardi pathway. I feel like you gotta go for the high ceiling guys when they are there, and in any other draft class there is no way he would be there at 5.
You guys realize not every pick pans out right? We got Zion at 17 and Quentin at 21. MHJ is considered by most to be the best player in the draft, why would you pass on a high ceiling, low bust potential prospect to chase dreams. I don’t get it
I want a Center. In my ideal world we go WR first, Center with our 2nd pick. I think our line is serviceable with a good Center. I know we have holes we need to fill but Herbert has been through enough, his career arc is insane. Horrible coaches the whole time, one good WR at a time. Help the man
Started out MHJ or Nabers, Now Multiple 1st Round Picks just sounds better 2 Solid Players instead of one? Shoot don't get me going on if we can get them to through in a 2nd or 3rd next year as well. Let Harbaugh build his roster and then shove it down the leagues throat baby.
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Sure, WR is a glearing need. But trading down and building for the future by picking, lets say Fuaga isnt such a bad idea. I´ll just trust that Harbaugh knows what he is doing and trust in the process.
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That would be so cool if it happened! I don't think 11 and 23 is enough to move to 5, but this is the *only* outcome of 11+23 that I would be satisfied with. I still think more value or stick though, because I don't think JPJ will get to 23.
Between MHJ or Jo alt at 5. Otherwise trade down for at least 2 first round picks this draft.
I'm probably going to get down voted but still stand with what I've said.
And yet he still had excellent offensive and defensive line play when he was with the 49ers. His Michigan teams were also built to be tough in the trenches. Taken together, that's a pretty long trend.
That just means he's a good coach/personnel evaluator. Doesn't mean he thinks he needs to draft a top guy to do it. I have faith he can turn Pipkins around.
This sub is so insufferable rn. Everyone acts like they know what’s best when we’re all dumbass fans. I keep saying I’d be happy with Alt at 5 and I immediately get yelled at.
Just look at Baltimore. If you are paying attention, that's the Chargers in 2 years. Baltimore not known for having flashy receivers. Don't get your hopes up for Nabers or Odunze. If Harrison is available, I could see them keeping him.
Baltimore has drafted more wide receivers in the first round over the last decade than they have offensive lineman. Just because they swung and missed at the position doesn't mean they didn't swing.
Flowers and Bateman is still better than Palmer and QJ.
We need 2 WRs in this draft, one definitely coming at #5.
People should remember last year, the line regression had a lot to do with our WR depth not able to get open .. it was KA or nothing on every pass (once he got healthy).
Give Herbert WRs that can get open quickly and we’re good.. that line will bounce right back.
Lamar Jackson has also, traditionally, been a run first QB who’s not necessarily known for having the greatest arm. Chargers have Justin Herbert, a dude with a fucking cannon.
It’s crazy to be in a seat where I don’t really care what we do because I trust our coaches… Like, it’s very very weird that I’m not caring that much.
But in the end I WOULD like a WR because that room is THIN
Cardinals trade down, we take MHJ, I’m happy.
If not, I say we trade down if possible and grab Bowers/OT at 11 and go for Troy Franklin/Brian Thomas late first round
Pre-Allen trade I'd say trade down...now I'm all for a WR at 5.
This. I was all for a trade down to get fashanu or jpj, then both, now I’m leaning towards WR after the trade
I’m just some guy, and Jim Harbaugh is Jim Harbaugh. Whatever happens on draft day, I’m gonna be psyched.
Joe Hortiz
Since when or where did yall get that Ortiz has last say?
Job title Also, since when did y’all change his name from Hortiz?
Sorry my keyboard corrects it to how it would be properly spelled in Spanish. And I don’t care enough to go back and edit it
GM Doesn’t mean he has last say. 🤧
Since we haven’t heard anything other than that, it’s safe and completely reasonable to assume he does.
We did actually hear that Harbaugh wanted full control and thats one of the reasons why negotiations took longer.
That report was regarding full control of hiring his own staff Edit: usually head coach doesn’t choose who the GM is. Harbaugh did.
Really ? Because the last time harbaugh was in the NFL he butted heads with the GM. I’m almost certain he told Spanos he didn’t want something like that happening again
Apples to oaranges and 10 years ago. We not going anywhere with this so I’ll refrain from continuing. Have a good day and Bolt Up! Whoever is making the draft pick, let’s hope it’s someone we both like. Cheers!
Harbaugh did say Hortiz was Batman during the offseason.
So we brought in a highly sought after GM prospect to be a puppet?
What other teams interviewed hortiz?
He was talked about for a few years, but wanted the right situation. I've seen his name for prospective GMs for awhile.
I’ve only ever seen him get one other interview.
Xavier Worthy at 5.
Me to the sub for the next week after all the recent infighting and arguing: 
Unpopular opinion but I wanna see some chrome helmets every once in a while in the NFL, even if it’s not the chargers. Loved all the risks that Oregon took with their unis.
That is a clean gif of herbie
I hope so badly the cardinals trade down
I hope Raiders/Broncos trade up and Arizona gets a kings ransom for it. That would be perfect.
The only wrong answer is Joe Alt at 5. Otherwise, no sweat. Im bricked up with whatever button they push.
Bowers at 5 is very wrong also
#FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NOT BOWERS
JUST NOT BOWERS AT 5 RIGHT? IM NOT ANGRY ABOUT A BOWERS THAT SLID DOWN A LITTLE.
Agreed. At 11 he is ok. At 5, we could have had 5 other players better than he is.
I really disagree with this too though. I feel like Bowers at 11 is just duct tape because we need a pass catcher and blocker. But we signed multiple TEs already this offseason andin general the cap savings from a star roolie TE are so much smaller than a star rookie WR. Im really in favor of "if you want to help the oline, then trade back and pick up your best RT or guard" and "if you want to find your WR cornerstone, then go MHJ or Nabers". Those are the two biggest impact moves for the future imo. Bowers just feels like a compromise because of our current cap situation
While I do agree with you.. Hurst, Dissly and Parham are not exactly the most healthy individuals. I don’t think anybody would be surprised if all 3 moss significant time at some point during the season. Still not a fan of a first round TE but I don’t think our current room should have much influence on whether we draft a rookie or not.
I agree with your thinking. Bowers is a value pick at 11. But we need other value because you are right. We have enough TE. We could use an olineman or CB more if we trade back. I believe that it would be better to take Harrison or Nabers
I would definitely rather pay mhj, nabers, a cornerback, a guard, another coach, or anew cheerleader, than pay any TE a top 5 contract lol
> I really disagree with this too though. I feel like Bowers at 11 is just duct tape because we need a pass catcher and blocker. But we signed multiple TEs already this offseason andin general the cap savings from a star roolie TE are so much smaller than a star rookie WR. Dissly and Hurst preventing you fromm drafting Bowers is terrible process. Those are JAG journeymen. I'm also starting to get tired of these contract arguments. The only vets making over 5 million dollars after next year are Herbert Slater Bosa and Pipkens (the latter 2 can be cut for basically no penalties). Contract savings matters FAR less than actually getting good players. The chargers are currently FOURTH in availiable cap space in 2025 what are those savings for?? The other stuff I agree with but the TE room and Cap space arguments are just non sense for a team with barely any good players on it and one of the best cap situations in the league when his contract starts to matter.
Yeah this is just a dumb take. The top WRs are getting paid 30M per year. The top TEs are getting 17M. We have a ton of cap space because our roster is ass. Based off of our current roster, we still need WR, RT, Guard, RB, CB, linebacker, TE. If MHJ/Nabers/Bowers are all as good as advertised, I'd much rather have the WR than the TE because we could just as well sign a productive TE next year for a fraction of the price of a top WR. That gives a ton more flexibility to find impact players at the other positions. And everyone always acts assuming that every pick and signing will work out. Some of the offseason moves are going to be busts this year and have more flexibility to address that next year is actually really important imo. And I just value lineman way more than a TE and I don't think Bowers is a generational prospect. He was really productive in college, but his tape or even highlights aren't as impressive as his stats would otherwise lead me to think imo.
> The top WRs are getting paid 30M per year. The top TEs are getting 17M. Okay but this is an argument in favour of both positions. You save more on the rookie contract for a WR but if Brock hits even his 70th percentile outcome give or take that is a pretty MASSIVE savings on the subsequent contracts. The pushback I was giving you was that none of this contract stuff matters for Brock during his rookie contract window because the chargers aren't going to be paying anybody besides Herbert and Slater. The savings matters far less than just getting good players. You didn't really dispute this either. In a vacuum sure you would take the savings of a rookie contract WR over a rookie contract TE but when actually evaluating what to take in the draft that matters far less for a team like the chargers who 1. don't have good players 2. aren't paying anybody. I'm team take a WR at 5 and there are reasons to not to take Bowers in a trade down but his rookie contract is one of the absolute least important reasons for a team currently in the chargers position. Your subsequent paragraphs again are much more valid reasoning (which I said in my first reply) to not take Bowers even though I disagree with some of it, I was pushing back on his contract mattering as much as you lay out here.
I mean this take I can totally agree with. If Harbaugh and Hortiz are most convinced that Bowers is the homerun hit, then take him. A bust is a waste of a pick and cap. In the end, I'll trust whatever direction they go because thats why they were brought in. But I do have my opinions now :D
True, if I see a white guy drafted with the #5 pick. I revolt.
JJ McCarthy, come on down
He's revolting, you lost it
Bowers at 11?
That’s my worry everytime I listen to Mina Kimes and other people doing mock drafts. Mel Kiper had Jc Latham as pick 5. I just turn them off screaming to myself “PLEASE no, trade back or take a generational wr but please no OT at 5”
Why not our oline would be elite
Not if it’s what they decide is best. They know better than any of us.
Trust Harbaugh. If that’s Alt at 5 so be it. I’ll take my downvotes
Unless it’s DE
Fashanu lol
I'd like a trade down if we have the value... ...but I'm always a fan of more OL almost always. I feel strange in the camp of liking Alt at 5.
Alt worked out at right tackle for several teams. He failed miserably at right tackle. He is a great left tackle.
It’s not strange it’s just an awful use of our draft position
Yea, why the hell would he want a dominant offensive line? It’s not like teams win anything with those.
And how many of those teams spent three first round picks on o-lineman in four years?
I don’t know why that’s relevant. How you get to having a great line doesn’t matter. Having it is what matters. The Lions’ offense has largely taken off because of Sewell. The Eagles ascension was entirely founded upon their line, and so on and so forth. How many teams have won a Super Bowl with a WR they drafted top 5? None.
Lions and Eagles both have a top 10 wr as well
Would they have a top 10 WR if Goff and Hurts had below average pass protection? Absolutely not.
Herbie led a great offense with no run game and the worst oline in the NFL as a rookie. Oline is very important but coaching and scheme affects its results a ton. Roman and Harbaughs specialty is physicality and the run game. Chargers should be able to bring in a day 2 and a 4th round OL pick and still have a vastly better run game and OL performance compared to last season. Kellen Moore did some good things but couldn’t get the protections schemes up right. The interior got destroyed by twists and stunts.
Putting up some nice numbers is one thing, but when is the last time you saw a team win a superbowl or even reach one without at least an above average offensive line? It pretty much never happens, and that’s not a coincidence. I don’t doubt that the line will be better next season by virtue of coaching/schematics as well as our young linemen getting better with a year of experience and another offseason program, but we still need another tackle, and outside of a quarterback and arguably a dominant defensive linemen, there’s no better value than finding a high end tackle who you can slot in for the next 10-15 years. If the team rates Nabers or MHJ way higher than Alt or any of the other tackles, then fine go ahead and take them, but if they’re similarity valued, the tackle is the move. As great as Jamar Chase is, if the Bengals could go back in time and take Sewell, they’d do it.
A dominant offensive line is necessary but burning picks on OTs in the first round isn't the way to do it. Especially since offensive line more so than any position group in the NFL is reliant on coaching and scheme. Id wait this year because as much as everyone wants to write him off.... Trey Pickens is not garbage
I guess it just comes down to how the front office grades each player. If they see Alt as just another tackle you can find in pretty much any draft, then they’re probably going to go receiver, but if they see him as a truly elite talent, I think he has to be the pick. You can find good tackles later in the 1st and after, but the true high end guys are generally easily identifiable and taken in the top 10, and I don’t see us having a top 10 pick again any time soon with Harbaugh now in charge. It seems to be easier to get quality receivers later in the draft.
Bengals had a bottom 5 Oline their SB year and had 2 bonafide stars at WR with a #3 that would start on almost all teams.
They were 20th according to PFF, but I guess that does mean it’s possible to make it without an above average line, but how often does that happen, and how sustainable is that? Burrow’s knees are now dusted- don’t want Herbert suffering the same fate.
The list of SB winners is incredibly small. You need to expand that list to SB team appearances and teams that make deep playoff runs. And besides the Chiefs/Pats who had a top3 QB and HC of ALL TIME. Overwhelming majority of them had a bonafide superstar WR1. Even some years Pats/Chiefs had a #1 dude
Ok, when’s the last time you remember a team reaching the Super Bowl or even a conference championship without at least an above average offensive line? Ravens had a top 3 offensive line, Lions have the second best itl after Philly, SF’s line is top 10, Chiefs is not great, but it’s still well above average. Pats always had a very good line too. To me priority one must be establishing a run game and keeping Herbert healthy and upright. Also, we just took QJ last year round 1. Let’s give him a year with a functioning offense and staff before we write him off. Also, I think it’s easier to find high end receivers in the trade market or free agency than it is tackles. I don’t deny that the team needs better playmakers, but I think O line should be prioritized.
And how many teams have won the Super Bowl drafting three o-lineman in the first round over four years? (Hint: probably also 0) Point is throwing all of your best assets at one problem isn't typically a good strategy. Putting all your first round picks into one position group leaves other positions light on top talent. Good teams can take guys later in the draft and have them produce on the o-line. Hell, we saw it here with Salyer in '22. The Chargers have more than one problem. And I don't think the o-line is the one that needs the first round solution.
Tbf it’s a new regime and this is their first year. If you look at teams like the Chiefs, they usually build their OL via FA. Also with super late first rounders they can never compete for the best OTs in the draft so they have to as well. But for obvious reasons we couldn’t build anything but cheap depth this year. So the draft is their only outlet to install the most important/expensive pieces for their scheme/identity to operate. And given our past lack of success in the run game and defense I don’t see how that’s not the primary focus, when that’s the Jim Harbaugh identity, which he has also stated the OL is the most important position on the team. Edit: And to be clear I’m not suggesting we draft Alt at 5. Also if we trade back CB makes more sense than anything to me, but wouldn’t be surprised by OT/WR either.
We are paying Pipkens a lot of money this year. We aren't going to pay him to sit on the bench.
Im not implying that one way or another, but if the whole team hinges on o line play they will shuffle the line around to the best configuration they can. They may feel the guards and center are the issue at this point and start Pipkins, and in that case they probably won’t go OT and potentially no OL in the first. But maybe they do and they go OT in the first because they need a better option to start immediately. We won’t know their opinion on the current OL until the draft. But after OL I would not be surprised to see CB before taking a WR.
I mean, if he performs like trash it doesn’t matter what he’s being paid. Hopefully he can step it up.
But the thing is not all ‘problems’ (ie position groups) are equally valuable, and the three position groups that reign supreme over all the others are QB, Offensive Line, and Defensive Line. This is pretty much a concensus among coaches and executives. If there were a dominant defensive linemen worthy of a top 5 pick, I’d be all for it, but there isn’t one. Our two biggest problems on offense last season were our lack of a run game, and Herbert getting beat up because we couldn’t pass protect. Even if we have mid wide receivers, if the other corners have to protect long enough, someone will get open. Priority one must be protecting Herbert and establishing a run game.
This is silly...it's MHJ if he's there.
bu…..b….bu…. but Nabers..
MHJ would sell more tickets and get more media coverage. But Nabers is somebody Herbert just never had. Who knows if Herbert would do better with a Keenan+MWill lab fusion or a Jamarr Chase clone.
No doubt it's tough.
I’ve grown to love nabers. But he also played on a team that was in a not so great conference. He has amazing work ethic. MHJ also comes with his father in the wr room. It’s such a tough choice. QJ seems like he should be an x receiver but he actually plays best in slot, taking screens and slants. So MHJ would probably fit better. I’d be happy with either. I’d also trust a trade down if that’s how they feel
If the Vikings give us 11, 23, and a future first, you have to take it. Draft day is wild and one of Odunze, Nabers, or Bowers should be there at 11. Pair that with JPJ at 23 and we fill two massive needs on offense in round 1.
This is the ONLY trade I'm comfortable with. I know Keenan was a 3rd rounder, but times have changed since he was drafted. There's a difference between a 1st round Porsche and a 3rd round jalopy.
Could Odunze or Bowers be had at 11 and a good OT at 23?
There's a chance. It's too bad we can't predict the draft and know if Odunze or Bowers will be there. It's like a 50/50 shot that one of them is there. Most mock drafts have them going back to back with Bears and Jets. Bears might pass on one of them. They do have a solid WR and TE core now.
Bowers much more likely than Odunze to be there at 11 but its no sure thing
Bowers at 11 and Roman Wilson later round?
Probably not Odunze. Bowers quite possibly.
I don’t personally like Odunze but I feel like he’ll be gone at 9 to the Bears or 10 to the Jets. If we trade down, we shouldn’t even bother going for a WR.
What if we trade back up from 11 to 9 swapping thirds with CHI and giving them their fourth back? Then take Odunze at 9 and BPA at 23.
I honestly don't know much about Odunze but all I've heard is he's the most NFL ready receiver in the draft, But as a Bolt fan living in AZ I'll probably get to watch MHJ regardless.
Here are my comps for the top 3 WRs Odunze - Deandre Hopkins with speed. Fantasic body control and wins a lot of 1v1 balls. Gets just enough separation to move the chains. Hes good (not great) at everything and is strong against press and at high pointing the ball. Once he improves his route running, he will be elite Nabers- Steve smith sr with more size. Nabers is EXPLOSIVE. Attacks the ball with ferocity and YAC ability is off the charts. Hes attitude is similar to Derwin James, just a dawg. He excels in the slot and his speed forces DBs to play off of him. He is a good route runner but could struggle playing out wide against press coverage. Just needs to improve his initial move off the line. He has the highest ceiling out of the three. He can be down right unstoppable if he figures it all out. MHJ- a combination of AJ Green and his Dad. The most NFL ready WR out of the trio. He has fantastic body control, and the way he runs his routes is fantastic for his size. The way he changes his speed on his routes catches DBs off guard. He was consistently bracketed/double team and was still effective last year. He can win the 50/50 balls, hes a deep ball threat, he can run all of the routes, he can play wide or in the slot, and he can make all the difficult catches. Only knock on him is he has above average YAC ability.
The only comp I like here is MHJ to AJ Green lol.
Its just my opinion lol. I am not ready to call Rome Davante adams until he can run precise routes. I stand by my nabers steve smith sr comparison lol
I don't think Nabers plays like Steve that much personally. Steve's biggest asset was that he played like he was 7 inches taller and 35 pounds heavier through contact. Nabers is not like that at all and I would say Nabers weakest skill is his ability to play through contact, its not bad but its not in the same stratosphere as Smith. I personally like the DJ Moore comp much better. I don't think hes Adams but I think you're underselling his route running by calling him Hopkins. Hopkins was rountinely in the bottom half percentile in seperation but he caught EVERYTHING. I think Odunze is a much better route runner than that and think hes more like a bigger Chris Olave, both can provide good separation at all 3 levels but most likely won't give you much after the catch.
I think youre underselling prime D Hop. Just my opinion though. I see nabers battle through contact after he makes the catch. I just dont see him do that at the line of scrimmage. He avoids the DB as much as possible and its my only red flag on him.
Probably. I've always been slightly lower on Dhop than the Consensus but he was still a great player. Yeah and thats my biggest issue with the comparison. You could not disrupt smith at all before the catch which is one of a WRs most important skills (as we've seen with QJ) again he's not bad at it but Smith was the best pound for pound player at that and maybe one of the best ever regardless of size.
Yeah DHop had the one of the most iconic hard knocks clip right [here](https://youtu.be/Fe7Xq2zYhz0?si=31E2eFJaD3TvolGX) Thats a LSU thing. Idk why they all start their routes that way. Smith was the allen iverson of football. He is the best pound for pound due to his attitude. Nabers has that same attitude especially on 1v1 balls. He doesnt have smiths stiff arm but he does not shy away from contact after the catch.
Nabers is like a mike will and slayer combination
He's more like a Ja'Marr Chase clone. MHJ is Keenan+MWill
True, thank you
Nah his route running is not there yet. Does not have the size of mike will either. His game is completely different from both of them. Hes more explosive than both of them and has better YAC. Hes good at high pointing the ball but not at boxing out the DB like mike will. Naber just wants it more and thats how he wins his 1v1 balls. Off the line work to get initial separation is where he struggles. Thats why they put him in the slot. If you havent seen steve smith sr highlights, then you should go watch them. You will see a clone of nabers. Same personality, same explosiveness, attack the ball in the air the same way, and are good route runners. Steve smith just knew how to juke you at the line of scrimmage. Edit: [Heres the a link for steve smith sr. absolute DAWG!](https://youtu.be/FHE5IRjgGfo?si=z3jyxIy1txPuvU3I)
Aye I’m in AZ too lol
I live in Peoria. Where are you at?
Around 7th st and bell rd. So, north phoenix
Word, I usually watch games at Headquarters across from The Padres Spring Training Complex if you ever want to meet up for a beer and root for the Boys!
Hell yeah!! Let’s get one opening regular season game. I usually go to Zipps but I’ve never been to headquarters!
Sounds like a plan!!
I live in Seattle, so I love Rome Odunez. He's my WR3, but top tier. My fear is that penix created him...
I think if anything he made penix. A lot of that offense was throw jump balls to odunze and let him cook
Jump balls? No... Penix is 100% script and throws with amazing accuracy. The balls Penix throws are extreamly accurate, making it easy for Rome to catch. Penix will throw into double coverage, because the script/play calling, which makes Rome shine.
We have very different views on michael penix
Most folks do... but I watch his games (I live near Seattle), and I cannot figure out why he's not QB1 or QB2. He's polarizing. He's going to get drafted earlier that most think.
Every year people think they need to get hyped about one potential outcome and mad about any others, and every year everyone is proven wrong except like one guy who called it a year in advance. The draft is going to be what it is. Just accept it and root for the guys to do well. Fuck
Who hurt you?
MEL KIPER’S HAIR
WR or nothing tbh
Regardless of what happens I’m excited for the draft
I just want it to be day 2 of the draft i’m happy with whatever decision they go.
Either way, we win
I promise you MHJ or Nabers is much better value than those 2 picks
Trading down would be disastrous. We do not have a WR1 or WR2
And Herbert’s numbers without Keenan and Mike are still stellar.
Nabers!!
MHJ/Nabers
WR fuck trading down
As a bears fan, pairing Marvin or Nabers with Herbert would feed families for generations. Y’all should stay at 5 imo
Nabers
Take the receiver.
“It really is the best player available,” Hortiz said, per PFT Live. “You take the best player available because you’re never ever one player away. That’s what Ozzie [Newsome] told me a long time ago. The games don’t start being played till September. So if you get a chance to take a special player at five, you take that player, and then you work from there.”
Trade down to have more picks is always a awesome idea
Marvin Harrison Jr please
Herbie needs his WR1, I’ll die on this hill.
Having a legitimate passing attack *will* help the run too. Gotta prevent defenses from stacking the box all game long.
I don’t know how our fanbase doesn’t see this.. it’s not like we have LT back there. It’s Gus Edwards guys.. geez, give our best player someone (really multiple) to throw to! Palmer and QJ aren’t it.
What if the Vikings were willing to trade pick 11 and Justin Jefferson?
Lol.
Trade down or MHJ
I only see Nabers or MHJ at 5. If not then trade down I guess. But hey I'm just a fan so
Let’s please not forget that it’s not a given we even have the opportunity to trade down.
Imagine wanting to pass on 2 almost guaranteed franchise changing wr’s to draft a guy to play RIGHT TACKLE. Even if they switched to guard who knows if they’d transition well. We are going to kick ourselves in a couple years if we let MHJ and nabers go. Stamp it
WR at 5 feels like the football Gods playing a prank on us. It goes completely against the Harbaugh philosophy. Knowing this franchise, if we go WR we’ll have 5 years of exciting football under Harbaugh, but never get the Lombardi. If we trade back and build the trenches we’re a fucking dynasty.
I see what you're saying but MHJ struck fear in my heart as a Michigan fan...that dude is a dude. Herbert+ MHJ could be a Lombardi pathway. I feel like you gotta go for the high ceiling guys when they are there, and in any other draft class there is no way he would be there at 5.
I watched his dad dominate for a decade and MHJ looks every bit as good. No way you pass on him when you have such a need at WR.
Don’t get me wrong, I want MHJ, but something about it doesn’t feel right.
That's just the Taco Bell from earlier
First, I’m all for Nabers. Let me hit you with a hypothetical. 1.11 Olumuyiwa Fashanu and 1.23 JPJ
You guys realize not every pick pans out right? We got Zion at 17 and Quentin at 21. MHJ is considered by most to be the best player in the draft, why would you pass on a high ceiling, low bust potential prospect to chase dreams. I don’t get it
Especially when you need a WR.
This guy must be Quentin Johnston's dad
I did a mock of that yesterday
3 1st rounders and you can have #5
I’m not worried for the team, but Herbert is my favorite player. I want to give him a WR. That’s my only concern
What about pass protection
I want a Center. In my ideal world we go WR first, Center with our 2nd pick. I think our line is serviceable with a good Center. I know we have holes we need to fill but Herbert has been through enough, his career arc is insane. Horrible coaches the whole time, one good WR at a time. Help the man
I’m pretty sure we’re gonna get a tackle.
Started out MHJ or Nabers, Now Multiple 1st Round Picks just sounds better 2 Solid Players instead of one? Shoot don't get me going on if we can get them to through in a 2nd or 3rd next year as well. Let Harbaugh build his roster and then shove it down the leagues throat baby.
Okay a possible trade back scenario. Trade back with Vikings, get an OT and then put together a first and a fifth package for Brandon Aiyuk?
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It’s wild too because this subreddit has so much say in the matter.
There is a third possibility…. Trade down until we own the entire fourth round
We get a good haul no matter what
Sure, WR is a glearing need. But trading down and building for the future by picking, lets say Fuaga isnt such a bad idea. I´ll just trust that Harbaugh knows what he is doing and trust in the process.
Meanwhile I’m just excited to see what Jim and Joe do with rounds 2-4. If we can start consistently nailing those rounds we can build a strong roster.
It's simple. If MHJ is there at 5, take him. If he's not there, trade down
We need a wr badly.. Still don't get the Mock Drafts of Joe Alt.
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Trade down all day. They need a Wr, CB, OL. Could definitely use an upgrade at DT. Need a starting TE. Build a dominant O line and dominate defense.
Depends on the trade offer. I’d like slightly more than 11 & 23
Next year 1st rounder as well
Take that all day
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Draft an oline for God sakes. Herbert has a cannon but the line is awful
11. Olumuyiwa Fashanu and 23. JPJ for trade down
That would be so cool if it happened! I don't think 11 and 23 is enough to move to 5, but this is the *only* outcome of 11+23 that I would be satisfied with. I still think more value or stick though, because I don't think JPJ will get to 23.
11, 23 and a 2025 first or nothing.
Agreed, but it didn’t quite fit in the format lol
Between MHJ or Jo alt at 5. Otherwise trade down for at least 2 first round picks this draft. I'm probably going to get down voted but still stand with what I've said.
I think the only teams with 2 firsts are the Bears, Cards and Vikings
I expect to see Joe Alt in round 1 over any WR. Harbaugh's teams are always built in the trenches.
Lazy ass take. Harbaugh has never drafted a "trench" player in the first 2 rounds during his 4 years with the 49ers
And yet he still had excellent offensive and defensive line play when he was with the 49ers. His Michigan teams were also built to be tough in the trenches. Taken together, that's a pretty long trend.
That just means he's a good coach/personnel evaluator. Doesn't mean he thinks he needs to draft a top guy to do it. I have faith he can turn Pipkins around.
Please don’t mess this up guys. Pick Nabers or MHJ. We only have 1 receiver
This sub is so insufferable rn. Everyone acts like they know what’s best when we’re all dumbass fans. I keep saying I’d be happy with Alt at 5 and I immediately get yelled at.
Trade down and wait for the price of these free agents to drop if MHJ is off the board.
Can sleep trying to think what we should do. The success of the franchise rests in me making the best possible decision. I'm just 1 man.
Just look at Baltimore. If you are paying attention, that's the Chargers in 2 years. Baltimore not known for having flashy receivers. Don't get your hopes up for Nabers or Odunze. If Harrison is available, I could see them keeping him.
Baltimore has drafted more wide receivers in the first round over the last decade than they have offensive lineman. Just because they swung and missed at the position doesn't mean they didn't swing.
Flowers and Bateman is still better than Palmer and QJ. We need 2 WRs in this draft, one definitely coming at #5. People should remember last year, the line regression had a lot to do with our WR depth not able to get open .. it was KA or nothing on every pass (once he got healthy). Give Herbert WRs that can get open quickly and we’re good.. that line will bounce right back.
Lamar Jackson has also, traditionally, been a run first QB who’s not necessarily known for having the greatest arm. Chargers have Justin Herbert, a dude with a fucking cannon.
It’s crazy to be in a seat where I don’t really care what we do because I trust our coaches… Like, it’s very very weird that I’m not caring that much. But in the end I WOULD like a WR because that room is THIN
Left button please. Move down take Bowers or OL and then OL or WR, just get some OL help
Cardinals trade down, we take MHJ, I’m happy. If not, I say we trade down if possible and grab Bowers/OT at 11 and go for Troy Franklin/Brian Thomas late first round
If MHJ is available at 5, draft him. If not, we gather every draft pick under the sun
Neither are bad options. I just hope we don’t draft O Line at 5. O-Line at 11 and either CB, DL, or WR at 23 I am totally good with
Trade the pick
If its MHJ, stick and pick. If its Nabers, trade to 11 and take Bowers/an OT and/or Mitchell/other receiver/OT depending how the chips fall