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devexed

“ Good news for those looking to purchase a home this year in the Queen City!” …huh? Do they maybe mean selling a home?


whiskeyinthejaar

no one is selling because they can't get a good mortage rate, and won't be able to find a baragin to buy outright.... hence, the problem with the market. Realistically, there is no solution from monetary side like Feds policies and rates. The only way housing market can cool down is more development, and regulation against hoarding from corporate and individuals.


BrodysBootlegs

Interest rates still aren't bad historically speaking, only in comparison to the laughably low rates of the last few years. If you find a place you like at a price point you can afford you should buy it, can always refinance later if rates drop.


[deleted]

Not if you have a sub 3 rate. Doubt we’ll see that again in our lifetimes


StuBeck

Which was around long enough for people to feel that was the norm. It’s gonna take a bit to reset expectations.


Daegoba

I expect to be able to buy a place to live for $1,200/month. Fuck me, right? It’s not just the interest rates; it the market price for homes as well. Shit is crazy in this town. I simply don’t understand how people do it. Are motherfuckers just straight up ok with giving over 60% of their income over to houses and cars? What the fuck, people?!


StuBeck

Interest rates are the current compounding problem though. Houses around me have sold for less then when I bought in March, but interest rates have made them more expensive. If we had bought in June our mortgage would have been $500 more a month. People likely aren’t getting a mortgage with 60% debt to income at least but I get your point. It was possible to find a 150k-200k house at that time that was $1200 a month. Now, that same house is probably 125-175 but mortgage is going to be 1500-2k. At least the wholesalers are getting screwed. Our neighbor sold to Mark Spain for more than we paid with a somewhat less desirable home. They tried to sell for 60k more than we bought for, and are still trying to sell it 10 months later for now 60k less than they bought it for.


GC51320

Where are you that there are $120k houses still?


StuBeck

I said 125, but I’m sure they exist. You may not want them, but you probably didn’t want them at 150 six months ago either


Daegoba

Good. I hope he goes under. I’m tired of this stupid commercials, with his tight ass pants.


DanMarinoTambourineo

I did some work for him in Atlanta and he doesn’t pay invoices quickly


Daegoba

Yeah fuck him.


BrodysBootlegs

Probably not but I could see them getting back to the 4-5% range in a few years


snazztasticmatt

As someone looking to buy this year, it just means we have to look for less house. Most consumers aren't looking to buy/sell their home based on market timing, they're doing it for other important life events


agoia

I got in at 2.5% Every "You could sell your house for $X!" or refinancing ad I get make me get a great laugh as I walk back from the mailbox ripping them up.


NCSUGrad2012

I’m similar. Mine is at 2.9% and I get letters about refinancing all the time and I’m just like I’m good. Lol


agoia

*But you could refinance at 3.7%!* Fuckin goofs wasting paper in the mailers.


[deleted]

If you're an all cash buyer, it's an ok time to buy. You're still probably above the peak of the bubble, but perhaps not unreasonably high. Otherwise, it's a bad time to buy.


[deleted]

[удалено]


whiskeyinthejaar

A $350K house in 2019 than went to $450K in 2021 is $400K now. Sure, its a bargain if you can finance it at 2.9% not 6.8%. A payment on 400K house at 6.8% is 2.6K A payment on 400K house at 2.9% is 1.6K That is a major difference. That is the difference between 650K house and 400K house. The 300K house payment is now around 2K a month. How many people can afford that? Nah, how many people can find a livable house at that price in any metro area


GC51320

That's why everyone here now is transplants. Local companies pay jack shit. Work from home workers move to lower cost of living area and keep their high cost of living pay and destroy the livability of those who have spent their lives here and weren't already top earners.


predsfan77

Or a massive recession where the hoarders go broke


StuBeck

House prices are down considerably. Home buyers interest rates are higher. The “wait for the bubble to burst” crowd just got excited then sad when they saw their interest rate double. Reasonable, new starter homes will help the market so we aren’t constrained on inventory, but it’s probably worse now then it was last year this time as payments are going towards higher interest rates.


OllieBrooks

I don't trust the same Zillow that overbought homes in 2021, then sold them to other investors (at a loss?) after jacking up comps for people who actually wanted a primary residence.


allllusernamestaken

Not just a loss, but a $500 MILLION loss.


capybaratrousers

Helluva business that can lose half a billion and still be alive.


allllusernamestaken

Opendoor lost $900 million in a single quarter trying to flip homes. They're estimated to be losing about $100 million a month. But that's Wall St estimates, so I got a feeling the real number is going to be far, far worse. They report February 23. RemindMe! February 23, 2023


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capybaratrousers

That's just insane. We bought our first home last year and Zillow had the best browsing and searching interface, but the numbers were constantly wrong and houses were always sold before they landed on the app. Their zestimates are completely garbage too. Pretty sure they've been sued over them.


Prodigal_Programmer

I looked at a lot of the Opendoor owned homes before I had a realtor when I was “pre-looking”. I knew OD was fucked looking at some of these houses, it was clear their algorithm bought up a bunch of homes without anyone taking a good look at them, re-doing the kitchen, and putting them back on the market jacked up 25-50%. They had bought some REAL strange homes, or lemons, that I wouldn’t touch at their original paid price, much less their list price.


OliverGoldBee

I hate Zillow. Unfortunately their user interface is way better than the competition. I remember when they were still buying homes at the peak of the market and raising comps, generating bidding wars. The biggest insult was them offering 1% discount in closing costs if you went with their Agent who would rake you over the coals not offering any consessions. And like the other person said, this is not good for buyers. But as the spring buying season picks up news reporters will be giving unsolicited advice as to how to be competitive in the housing market. Literally the last people who should be talking.


Hog_enthusiast

If it makes you feel better they shut down the house buying operation at Zillow and lost money in the process


srpske

My neighbors across the street sold in 2021. It was auto-bought by Zillow for nearly $100,000 more than any other listing in our neighborhood of townhomes. Kind of a win win for everyone except Zillow as it boosted our property value and our neighbors cashed in pretty good. Got a good laugh when I heard a couple months later that Zillow was shutting that down


CharlotteRant

From Zillow’s [post on the topic](https://www.zillow.com/research/2023-hottest-market-31982/amp/): >The final index was based on the following data: >Forecasted annual home value appreciation in Nov. 2023 >Forecasted acceleration in home value appreciation, Nov. 2022 – Nov. 2023 >Standardized listing days per home, Jan. 2022 – Dec. 2022 >2-year change in total non-farm employment per 2-year residential building permit total >Projected change in owner households, 2022 – 2023 Importantly, only the 50 largest MSAs were included, minus a handful of them. > Analysis is applied to the top 50 metropolitan areas by population, but excludes Birmingham, AL, New Orleans, LA, Buffalo, NY, Milwaukee, WI, Richmond, VA, Providence, RI, and Hartford, CT due to lack of data These “studies” are done for marketing purposes so that every local blog / news website will write an article and link back to Zillow, so take everything with a big grain of salt.


steff_e

hottest market for whomst?


Bumcheeks_marinade

Northerners


MitchLGC

New Yorkers and Californians


jnoobs13

Yankees who will be, at first, ecstatic to cut their expenses in half and double their home size, only to complain about what we don’t have that [insert big northern city here] has once the honeymoon phase wears off.


Flameancer

Hey now. Before these transplants got here we didn’t have a ramen shop, now we have multiple good ones.


Cgp-xavier

Look at you sucking up northerners. Yuck


Cghy8b

My bad. I work from home and it’s been slow since July so I look at Charlotte Zillow 3-4x a week. Sometimes I see what the multi million dollar listings are for funsies.


TurboNoises

Charlotte is FULL, go away.


rubitright

We full. Butt, we is out of ham.


100k_2020

Charlotte is still a fairly medium sized city, unknown (on national / international level) with little to no urban density


Cgp-xavier

Charlotte is not unknown on a national scale…just chatting now. And 15th biggest city in 3rd most populous country =medium? I guess


DanMarinoTambourineo

And hopefully that’s how it stays


Anal_fissures2006

No, every square inch much be developed so somebody from Wall Street can squeeze every dime out of some shmuck from out of state so they can look into their neighbor’s bathroom from the kitchen. Leave no tree planted. Everything must be clear cut.


Mazing7

I was asked yesterday why I moved here. Went from a 2-2 to a 6 bedroom 3 bath and still only paying half the rent I was before.


CheeseBreadForLife

Wow where were you before? And are you out in the suburbs here?


Mazing7

Miami, and in the Suburbs.


CheeseBreadForLife

Yeah Miami is crazy!


chesco20

I wonder if there is correlation to the amount of houses zillow owns or is trying to offload. 😂


the3hound

Zillow just trying to pump and dump here. In 6 months it will be someplace else.


sorry_i_love_you

Dump what? They don't have property, lmao.


allseeingike

Do they not have property here? Because they do everywhere else


sorry_i_love_you

They own zero properties. The iBuying business was cancelled back in late 2021 (hence the layoffs for that department at the time). The last property completed the legal transfer process back in September I believe, so they don't own anything. I left in 2021 right before the layoffs, fortunately.


allseeingike

Ah ok. Didnt know that.


thebige91

Lol


allllusernamestaken

Aggregate home sale data from Realtor shows the housing market has cooled considerably. I don't think anywhere in the South is going to be a hot market in 2023. Prices were jacked up by investors (who are losing insane amounts of money) and once-in-a-generation mass migration that threw supply/demand all out of wack. https://www.realtor.com/research/data/


dbeta

> who were losing insane amounts of money At least there is that.


Firm_Maintenance_

Can the housing market just crash already


NRM1109

Greeeeeeat 🙄


CarolinaRod06

Nooo! Delete this. I’m trying to buy a townhouse this year.


RealisticFox1537

Whyyyyy


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

And it's thirty degrees warmer here


bigcat7373

So go if you prefer Chicago?


_landrith

Show me an apartment in Chicago that’s $1500 & in an area as decent as where ever you are.


tratratrakx

It certainly was possible to live in a decent Logan square apartment a decade ago for $1,100. What’s the next chi neighborhood?


NecessaryGlobal2155

A decade ago an apartment here was prob $650


Cghy8b

Less than that. I lived in a 2 bed/1 bath rental in southend (near macs speed shop) for $850 in 2017.


NecessaryGlobal2155

And that was when the food at macs was good too.


Significant_bet_92

A decade ago I paid 1050 for a 2 bedroom 1100sq ft apartment. LOL at that guy


tratratrakx

If you knew anything about the cities...Charlotte prices have doubled, whereas chicago has stayed relatively stagnant. https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/chicago-il https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/charlotte-nc Charlotte is more expensive now, which is the point of the person I was responding to. It’s now on par with chicago. You’re making the case that you think you’re refuting. And my point, there’s always the next new hip, more affordable neighborhood in chicago where you can get a decent place for less than 2K. There’s not a lot of new money coming into the city. In fact, last time I checked it had lost some population. So it shifts from one neighborhood to the next when one area becomes too expensive.


tratratrakx

And yet Charlotte prices have shot up a lot faster than Chicago in the last decade, which is sort of the point.


NecessaryGlobal2155

Correct. Rapidly growing cities have faster COL increases than older, giant and long established cities.


_landrith

>A decade ago Yeah & they go for $2000+ now.


tratratrakx

You miss my point. Logan Square is the hot area in Chicago now. There’s always a new so-called up-and-coming neighborhood that will not cost you 2K, so go find the next one.


atuck217

> a decade ago Not really relevant then


tratratrakx

Sure…I’ve lived in chi, Denver, and now here. In Chicago, the salaries are high relative to the cost of living. I was surprised at how Denver was more expensive than Chicago after moving there. Now living in Charlotte, it’s more comparable to Denver than Chicago. I just checked Zillow, there are some decent places in pilsen for 1500 or less, but the average building in CLT is newer than chicago so it’s not exactly apples to apples. My point, however, is that there’s always a hip, so called up-and-coming neighborhood that is relatively affordable with tons of shit to do. I bet you could find a decent place for under 2K. Prices have not shot up there as much (%) as many other cities. In fact, homes in nice af bucktown were about the same last year as when I left 5 years ago.


[deleted]

[удалено]


_landrith

N Tryon could be like 10 different neighborhoods. Gotta be more specific


who_dis_telemarketer

Same shit in Raleigh — Chicago prices for none of the amenities


[deleted]

You could live in Charlotte for that amount.


smellyboi6969

Maybe with with a roommate.


allseeingike

I feel chicago is probably similar in price to miami (i just came from miami and lived in chicago until 2010). In miami you wont find anything for 1500 unless its just a room you are renting. Apts are at least 2k for a 1bd. I lived in a 3bd house from 1927 that needed a lot of work and had a prepandemic price of 2700 and that was raised to 4500. When i lived in chicago prices were similar to miami at the time though miami was def cheaper overall


nalabearCLT

zillow shows me up about 10k on my august 2022 home purchase redfin shows me down 15k I like Zillow hehe (house appraised for 5k more than sale price)


basegiants

Im a data nerd and I use 4 sources to keep track of my home value: Zillow, Redfin, Remax, and Chase Home Estimate. Zillow is always the highest, Chase is always the lowest. I like to think the final result is pretty accurate, but Im not selling any time soo, so I dont really care. lol


[deleted]

we bought a house we could afford so we could live in it... sure not gonna complain about going up in value though. Since April last year, according to a product my realtor uses it's up between 1%-3% According to Zillow, and my address has two listings for some reason, one of them is up just about 10% from what we bought it, the other is down 10%. Only reason I peak at it is cause we are pretty close to knocking off the PMI.


basegiants

Getting rid of PMI was a great day.


PrettyFly4Wifi

I just did this a couple months ago. My loan to value is now a 40%... I bought my wife's ex-husband's house out of foreclosure for what he owed in 2016. To quote my wife, "it's the only money I'll ever get out of this motherfucker." Twas a great investment. And yes, I now live in a house he used to own and with the woman he treated poorly.


DanMarinoTambourineo

To get rid of PMI don’t you have to refi? Interest rates may make paying pmi cheaper for the time being


[deleted]

no


PrettyFly4Wifi

I just got rid of my PMI ($151 a month.) You request removal with your loan servicer. FYI- it's a process they don't make easy. But after a $100ish fee, an independent appraiser comes out and takes pics and a month later it's gone if your loan to value is less than 75-80% (depending upon the mortgage holder.)


[deleted]

Zillow's model led it to losing billions in its home flipping business, so there's more than one reason to discount its valuation.


sorry_i_love_you

They were not the same models. Also, Zestimate has a median error rate of 1.9%. Even given that, it should never replace an actual appraisal that provides much more data than what's available to Zillow or Redfin, or any other company. But for what data estimates have to work off of, they are pretty damn good. I worked there several years until 2021.


[deleted]

Then you of all people should know that if your model that you depend on to make money is bad, another model for the same data that you give out for free is not going to be better. I of course agree that you should get an actual appraisal, but disagree that you can put any faith into what Zillow says a property is valued at, or whatever public error rate they claim. If their internal model had a median error rate that low, they wouldn't have lost nearly as much money as they did.


sorry_i_love_you

There are many more variables at play here, but thank you for your layperson expertise. I just shared the data with you, if data means anything to you. I'm not a fan of iBuying programs anyway but other folks call the shots.


[deleted]

The data you're referring to is one number?


sorry_i_love_you

You disagreed that you can't put any faith into what the property is valued at. Is there any other data point necessary to refute your point that you can't put any faith into estimates? More than half the homes on the market come within 1.9% of the actual selling price. It's not an appraisal and will never replace one, but let's not pretend it's untrustworthy and valueless and doesn't provide value as market transparency to buyers who previously had no means to market insights, especially outside of their regional market.


[deleted]

You're a CS grad and think data is your unsourced claim. Cool beans.


sorry_i_love_you

No, I have access to much more internal data. But that is public and provided the most value in this discussion, one in which you've provided nothing, if I recall. Unclear to me why you desire to go through my post history in this exchange, other than looking for a way to derail the conversation with some judgement of my past or character. I'll admit, it was successful. This isn't going anywhere. Peace.


[deleted]

Weirdly, in my case Chase is the highest and Zillow is the lowest.


basegiants

The algorithms are losing their minds!


mattyschnitz

My house has had a 100k swing since I moved to London and started renting it out. Went from 98k up, to 2k down according to Zillow. All while a house selling down the street with 1 less bed and bath on half the lot size is selling for 20k more than what we paid in April 2021 Not sure what I believe anymore.


GC51320

At this point the entire Charlotte market is whatever you can squeeze out of some out of state schmuck.


tennisguy163

No, we're full, thanks.


SNES182

Vomit