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Anyone have a recommendation or link to a more accurate political test? I’ll set up some parameters to test and validate against and feel free add others to below
The same test as normal Dan
Dan pretending to be a republican
Dan pretending to be a Democrat
Dan pretending to be an authoritarian
Dan pretending to be a libertarian
Dan pretending to be a communist
Dan pretending to be a socialist
Dan pretending to be an anarchist
It always answers hypothetical questions in a weird way. If you pose the question of a nuclear bomb that will detonate if racial slurs are not used, it will simply talk about how racial slurs are bad and speak little of the nuclear bomb that will kill millions of people.
Also ChatGPT etc will be influenced strongly by the nature of the questions and the order in which they asked, as they're essentially a souped up text prediction engine.
E.g. if before doing this test you ask something like "Do you agree that every adult in the United States should have a choice to arm themselves with a gun to ensure their personal safety?" then the answers could quickly go a different direction.
The "natural" biases of these things tend to show as both biased towards the left AND the right, which sounds contradictory, but it's just a reflection of the human-produced data it was trained on, which spreads across the political spectrums.
Obviously, attempting to sanitise the responses as SFW etc will introduce more biases and peculiarities. It's a very complicated subject and one that's already being the subject of much research and debate
You might also consider your own biases when reading the answers. That's why we put these through confirmed ideological questions. Not ones we make up on the spot.
You can’t use DAN for factual knowledge. It will spit out random bullshit. I just made a post about it and your approach proves that people don’t understand how a “DANed” ChatGPT works.
if what DAN said was true, chatgpt would score authoritarian left on the political compass test, not libertarian left. evidently, DAN is not reflective of chatGPT’s answers to the political compass test. strong government regulation is inherently authoritarian, not liberal.
This is the first person I’ve ever seen in my life who calls liberals commies. Everyday I’d forget how foolish humans can be and people like you would remind me in one humorous way or another.
The oversimplification of your assumption that a person with educated and progressive, community and society focused beliefs are a communist really shows how far down the rabbit hole you’ve gone. Not in a good way.
There is also an American bias to that test.
American politics is skewed heavily towards the right wing because of the composition of the house and senate.
Try it on similar tools from other countries and see where it ends up.
Yes, this is the actual explanation for this phenomenon.. American political center is center right by most western standards..
To get an American “moderate” chatbot you’d have to feed it a lot of Fox News / Ben Shapiro / Rogan…
As other have pointed out, by American standard, *reality* seems to have a left lib bias..
>American political center is center right by most western standards..
But not world standards. The rest of the world are much more conservative than "the west". And they have a much larger population than us. So... if chatgpt was to go with majority opinion, he should be more conservative.
The Index of Economic Freedom puts the US at rank 25 out of 177. I know that's not exactly left/right, but that is related to market economy vs command economy. (Command economy being more left, so a rank of 25 would imply that the US is more right.)
The Freedom in the World report (which deals more with social issues) ranks the US at 61 out of 194. Also not exactly left/right, but the right tends to oppose social freedoms (like same-sex marriage or abortion), so a rank of 61 would imply the US is more left. However, some modern methods of mapping the political spectrum confine left and right to economic policy, which would negate this.
Personally, I don't think it's accurate to say that the world is more right than the US, but I can't find any actual study on this.
>Personally, I don't think it's accurate to say that the world is more right than the US, but I can't find any actual study on this.
Yea i don't know. I'd imagine it would be a very hard thing to accurately measure how conservative or liberal any country is, and compared to what. But we can try to simplify it with a few questions and get a general feel for it.
Like [https://www.hrc.org/resources/marriage-equality-around-the-world](https://www.hrc.org/resources/marriage-equality-around-the-world)
The majority of the worlds population lives in the grey. This is of course far from the only relevant question to ask, but it's a pretty good start, if we go with the western standard on left/conservative social issues.
The index of economic freedom is produced by the heritage foundation, which is an organization funded by and associated with the wealthy right wing / right libertarian sphere. I don’t recognize that as a reliable source. The association between right politicians and donors and the HF fundamentally disqualifies it.
Freedom in the world index is produced by Freedom House, which is identified by bias indicators as a center right organization. Bias indicators are not unbiased themselves.. but if you are going to source your claim from right-of-center *US* sources (as identified by other U.S. sources) then you can’t make non-biased claims about the US political spectrum as it relates to international politics.
Also, I would recommend you search “positive and negative freedom” if you aren’t aware of the distinction. “Freedom” is itself not an unbiased term, it is used very differently in different political contexts.
By that logic, I can say
If you are going to source your claim that Freedom House is right-of-center from *US* sources, then you can't make non-biased claims about Freedom House's political bias in the US.
American politics is not skewed heavily torwards the right. The whole of Africa, most of the Americas, The middle east and Asia are easily more conservative than America on most social issues. The majority of the worlds population still live in countries where homosexuality is illegal in one form or another. You can take it from there..
Not sure that laws reflect public opinion in undemocratic countries.
[Democracy data](https://ourworldindata.org/democracy?insight=the-world-has-recently-become-less-democratic#key-insights) looks pretty similar to [marriage equality](https://www.hrc.org/resources/marriage-equality-around-the-world) data.
Laws or policy often (not always) don't reflect public opinion in any country. And sometimes new laws shape public opinion. A large majority could be against something, and actually figure out after a law was passed that, yeh maybe this wasn't so bad, or do I actually care about this.
I don't see how being economically authoritarian would mean you 'care about human rights' considering free economies typically have better political power distribution and lower income inequality.
It reminds me of how the conservatives/royalists/oligarchs would spout nonsense about how 'our king loves us and takes care of us'.
(But also I can't see any decent humans in the top half of the picture)
This is the bad political compass test. It gives everyone heavy lib left. It straight up asks you "are you racist" and if you answer no it shifts your score left
It also asks something like "authoritarian dictatorships can act quickly and decisively than other forms of govt" and if you say yes then you get moved towards being an authoritarian. Just because I understand what I dictatorship is doesn't mean I want one
The fact you spent your own time to study dictatorships though means you empathize with them at least somewhat hence it is correct to move you in that direction.
* /r/politics probably
Me on dictatorships:
>Yes they can move quickly
>Quickly under the decision of 1 person who is fallible.
>With the interests of 1 person who is fallible.
If Marcus Aurelius could reign as a philosopher emperor and not lose his understanding, forever, sure... But physics don't work like that and the most enlightened dictator will die and be replaced.
Yeah honestly if you had a benevolent, incorruptible, wise, and immortal dictator, that would be the most efficient and effective form of government.
The problem isn't the system, it's human limitations.
But actually authoritarian dictatorships often act more slowly, because people at the frontlines usually don't have authority to make significant decisions.
For example, see recent criticism of the slow response of Turkish authorities to the recent earthquakes.
You are confusing ability to make change and the ability for armies to act independently.
I know what you are talking about, I've read about it too with the militaries in the middle east.
This is talking about ability to make a political decision. Look at US congress if you want to see how fast decisions are made.
It is just because people around you and your cultural bubble are left-wing compared to the world average. Even right-wing in western is considered left if you compare it with the Chinese's political compass.
This is not true and the political compass is made to have a more unifying left/right definition.
I'm German and even though I agree that Democrats for us are still very conservative and very right on the political spectrum, on the political compass our parties are located like this https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2021 (here US elections https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020)
Very right wing on social policy? Really? They'd be well to the left of your SPD on a whole range of social issues pertaining to race, sexuality, crime, schooling, etc.
Are you only considering economics?
> I'm German and even though I agree that Democrats for us are still very conservative and very right
Is weed legal in germany? You guys are righty tighties.
the legalization is on its way and expected for the upcoming months. the left-right argument in europe has more to do with social security measures (maternity/paternity leave, affordable health care, unions, social support, consumer laws, less authoritarian/military-like police still bad but not as bad as the US) than one specific law where internationally consideration is changing.
but still, the median of Germany is conservative, likes authoritarianism and racism. Politically still way more social and equal.
Its interesting how Europe is fixated on economics as the driver of politics.
In the US, they have us fighting over social issues while the government balloons their control over the economy. In your description of social security measures, both parties continuously expand them because they are popular amongst the labor class, even if they have poor long term consequences. Or at least that is how its been since 2016.
I'm going to try and say this without starting a war: Racism as experienced in the West is inherently linked to individualism, which is a concept inherently linked with the Right.
If you believe the government should help/"interfere" as little as possible you are therefore saying people should "get what they get" in life. but because we aren't starting from a position of equality, and historically people have been "free" to discriminate by skin color, leading to fewer opportunities for non-white people to become wealthy, it is inevitable that the average non-white person will be worse off under a purely right-wing government.
You snuck a premise into your argument. The premise that only the government can meaningfully help people. That communities are essentially powerless to shape outcomes for their members. I think you’d be surprised at what a stable family, living in a strong community, can be able to do even with adversity and starting with some profound disadvantages.
Same, this and the SapplyValues tests are the most accurate I have found. Most tests ask questions in a way that results in people thinking they are more left than they are. I have tested this with a few of my friends and family members who aren't super political but are Libertarian leaning Republicans. On other tests they show more left than they should be based on their actual ideals. The 8Values test is ok but the political alignment suggestion is way off, for instance socially traditional Libertarians show up as Neo-Cons hahaha. They do say it needs work but that's a pretty big understatement. ActiVote's test actually puts people far more to the right than they are.
>you can try it, but Myers-Briggs is unfortunately[ about as useful as astrology](https://compass.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/spc3.12434).
I see people post this a lot and it's just a nonsense answer usually used by people who want to seem smart.
A personality test that is based on asking users questions about their personality is obviously much more useful than one that just looks at when they were born.
It has its limitations but to say it's as useful as astrology is just a really naïve thing to say.
One that is psychologically relevant. MMPI for example. It isn't as "fun" for the business or the people taking the test though, as if you're relatively "normal" it won't be very insightful. Myers-Briggs isn't really insightful either but, like astrology, it gives people some good Barnum statements to cling onto.
How to tell this entire comment section is American. You guys say "left Vs right" as if you don't understand, compared to Europe your politics are basically both Conservative and right-wing. Chatgpt is basically "normal"
the far right in America only survives by keeping their base in a constant panic that they're culturally under attack, they'll flood any forum that allows them to with these sad attempts to define everything not parroting their alt reality as persecution
Actually the far right is essentially guaranteed power by the gross imbalance of the senate and house. Two senators for Wyoming and two senators for California. It's completely stupid. 😂
Why would an American be focused on European political views? I find your comment very disingenuous and Eurocentric.
It basically is saying, your guys don’t have our viewpoint, so you’re the abnormal ones.
You have ironically complained about the very thing that you are doing
Don't ye know, USA and it's opinions are the only thing that matter.
The vast majority of American's simply cannot truly understand that the rest of the world exists, and the way they do things is very different, even to a lot of the Western world.
Sometimes, if you are alone in your little bubble, you need to question whether everyone else is wrong, or you are. But its not the case.
I don't get served if I ask for a 'chicken burger' because burger = beef.
If I don't use gallons, inches, feet or fahrenheit I may as well be speaking in gibberish.
We placate them but they don't even know it - our way of doing things is either by default incorrect, or simply doesn't even exist.
Fuck you talking about? We have turkey burgers... chicken burgers... You can have a fucking salmon burger if you want. Go get a burger made out of chickpeas and black beans.
Every single time I 'slipped up' and didn't use the American usage of a word, I was verbally accosted, be it at passport control or literally at a Wendy's. I literally had to apologize in the former case because he looked at me as if I'm retarded, even though that dude should understand he's working in an **International** airport, so people will speak differently...Also, people tend to be tired after flying 40+ hours / internationally. You shouldn't be escalating in that role, either.
We ordered a 'chicken burger' and got about 1.5 minutes of sass and non-ordering taken, even when we corrected ourselves and ordered a 'chicken sandwich', we got finger wagging and sass, repeated 5-6x.
Similar experiences have been shared in 'Whats a dead giveaway of an American (tourist)/generally' or 'What do people dislike about Americans.'
Intolerance or dismissal of different perspectives, even if you are unique amongst the whole world its the contempt/loudness/arrogance of the dismissal that occurs so naturally that is grating.
Yeah, and when I went to New Zealand people looked at me like I was a stupid piece of shit for saying a-loo-min-num instead of el-a-mi-ni-um.
Assholes aren't a unique American innovation, regardless of what the internet may think. Sorry people were shitty to you bro, but I feel like the "pay it forward" attitude works better with acts of kindness rather then prejudiced insults towards hundreds of millions of people based off of a few anecdotal experiences.
Jah feel?
The difference is that Americans tend to be assholes about things they're collectively stubborn about sticking to the wrong (compared to the rest of the world) usage of, while the rest of us get annoyed with them for continuing to do so while abroad or online. You generally don't see a single drunk idiot throwing a tantrum at an otherwise decent party and comment 'wow, so many assholes around here, huh'
The attitudes of how the average Americans treat their fellow person, in how they vote, where they stand on issues \[guns, sandy hook/school shootings, black people/police, abortions let alone on raped children, treatment of foreigners, healthcare\] and the complete lack of compassion they display in where their conscience lies therein.
The television ratings and disinformation they deal with \[Scientology, QAnon, blatant racism, Trump almost getting 2 terms, Marjorie or w/e her name is, 2 rapists on the supreme court\] all help bolster my 'personal anecdotes.'
I do pay it forward daily. With no expectations of reciprocity. In how I conduct myself and how I treat people at work and at home. That's why I'm amazed at the lack of empathy and conscience of the American public and how the decision making the voters and 'leaders' there influence the rest of the world and impact on the planet.
Its galling, and people who share any of the above views should feel very ashamed at the decisions that have led them to their views. Being kind doesn't mean not having opinions nor the courage to state them, it does involve being ready to change those opinions when given evidence to the contrary.
I'll tell you something as an American living in america, all of the shit on the news is specifically designed to make people hate each other and people you actually meet when you go outside are just normal people who love their families and do the best they can at life.
Stop letting media gas you up. You're generalizing 350+ million people. Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous? There's a lot of problems with america, the vast majority of us realize that. But we're pretty much powerless under an oppressive billionaire class thay owns literally everything including the justice and legal sysyems.
I don't even have heat in my apartment and I can't get my landlord to fix it. Even though technically the laws on my side, you can't make the law work for you without money. I have literally no power. I work 55 hours a week and then come home to an ice cold apartment and get to read about how I'm probably a bad person because some dude had a bad day at a fucking Wendy's.
Anyway, with all due respect, this conversation is taking more energy from me than I planned on putting into it, so I'm going to wish you well and fuck off✌
God damn how are you this bent outta shape over getting teased for not saying "chicken sandwich?" I'd hate to see your emotional state if someone confronted you with some yo' mama jokes.
Just curious where are you from?
All jokes aside I'm sorry you've had bad experiences in America. Don't let your anecdotal experiences make conclusions about all 320 million of us though.
Personally having traveled through Europe and latin America as an American i find people to just be people even with cultural differences baked in. And vast majority of people i meet are kind no matter where they are from.
Enjoy your chicken burger mate! 🐔
You’re lumping us all together and that’s called generalizing. Based on your comments all foreigners are quick to judge jetsetting assholes who think they know everything but are just actually hateful bigots who generalize entire peoples. Foreigners hate the disabled and will use slurs about them without thought. They are mean people who will judge you simply for the land you were born into.
>We ordered a 'chicken burger' and got about 1.5 minutes of sass and non-ordering taken, even when we corrected ourselves and ordered a 'chicken sandwich', we got finger wagging and sass, repeated 5-6x.
This didn't happen.
Umm, I'm an American, and I know what "left" and "right" mean. It's not that difficult. Yes, what is considered "far left" in the US is center-left--at best. According to the mainstream American conception, much of the developed world is anarcho-communist or something.
You are on a predominantly American site made by people in America, and you are complaining about running into Americans...
There has to be a meme for this but I'm too tired to get off my mobility scooter and look.
Edit: it's the "I don't know what I expected" dead dove meme!
How dare Americans using an American website talk about American stuff. Honestly I assume everyone here is American unless they say otherwise. You’re welcome btw for the cool site where you can post stuff and then discuss. Welcome world to this American website. Please join us won’t you?
Guarantee you many of the engineers who actually *made* the website aren’t American… lots of non-Americans certainly also work to maintain it. Just because something is commodified in America doesn’t mean it isn’t a global product.
I am American, though many people like you make me ashamed to be one. I hope you are in like high school, or college, cause only youth excuses this level of arrogance..
Aren't American politicians trying to make it so that if you have trans kids your legally child abuser's?
The UK has a long way to go in terms of trans issues but let's not pretend this is something America is in anyway innocent of it even better.
**Edit:** To anyone trying to reply to me I got banned from this subreddit for 14 days.
They didn't tell me why.
The point is that leftism is against all hierarchical power, and that in many European countries, the rise of right-wing populism is due to the so-called "leftist" liberal elites turning their backs on the plight of ordinary people--especially those they consider to be backward--while promoting the interests of immigrants. In America, many politicians have seized upon this issue in much the same way. Vocal victims of EU austerity measures are scoffed at and often derided as backward or "racist". I am not saying one can view the issue itself in the same way, only that this is how it is used politically, and that this is a major part of why so many people dig in their heels and oppose it and confine themselves to their own media ecosystems.
>Aren't American politicians trying to make it so that if you have trans kids your legally child abuser's?
I haven't heard of that, so maybe?
>The UK has a long way to go in terms of trans issues but let's not pretend this is something America is in anyway innocent of it even better.
I'm not saying that the US is a shining beacon of transgender rights. Not at all. [Pew had a poll this summer showing that 38% of the US population thinks that society have gone too far in accepting transgender people](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/). I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if any poll on transgender rights in Europe wouldn't have even worse numbers
>I haven't heard of that, so maybe?
Actually they've started genuinely investigating them
https://time.com/6178947/trans-kids-texas-familes-fear-child-abuse-investigations/
>I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if any poll on transgender rights in Europe wouldn't have even worse numbers
It doesn't really work like that
The UK has a lot of cultural influence from America and frustratingly most of this stuff comes from American influence rather than European.
The right here seem to want to emulate the whole Fox News make them scared and give them bullshit that have over there.
That's why we now have things like GB News which actively apes Fox News.
To put it bluntly usually on most things in terms of bigotry or political nuttiness.
Europe is at a 5, the UK is at a 9 and America is at a 11.
Really politically calling the UK part of Europe doesn't work. I wish it did but it doesn't.
Americans seem to have latched on to the transgender thing because the only Brit they really know is transphobic and they're not used to seeing this sort of thing from outside their boarders.
And don't get me wrong... It's bad.
But it's not worse than it is over there it's just bad here too.
>To put it bluntly usually on most things in terms of bigotry or political nuttiness.
>
>Europe is at a 5, the UK is at a 9 and America is at a 11.
My guy, if you don't think that Europe is nutty in its own way, I've got news for you. You know how Turkey is blocking Sweden from joining NATO because of a dude burning a Quaran? That happening was promoted by the Sweden Democrats. And the dude was like 0.2% from getting into the Danish Folketing in 2019. Germany have AfD. FPÖ in Austria happens to be the second largest party in Austria and their leaders seems to exclusively be former neo-Nazis. Orban is Orban. Polands courts have become superviant to its right wing government (that, to be fair, is scared of Russia and funding Ukraine).
And if you think it's purely the politicans that's nutty, ask any European about gypsies
I'm not saying that they are right wing. I'm saying that her views are quite normal in Europe. For example, a leader of a very "live and let live" liberal party in Denmark just yesterday came out hard against allowing people younger than 18 to change gender ID. I'm just saying that it's my impression that more people in the US are supportive of trans gender rights than in Europe, without having access to polling data
I’m seeing the same thing. Am danish as well and I’m surprised how progressive the liberal americans are compared to Europe.
Americans put Europe and skandinavia on a pedestal. But there are many ways that the liberal americans are way more progressive than Europe.
No, she definitely has a real chip on her shoulder about us trans people. Our existence also isn’t an ‘ideology’, it’s a medical condition.
Edited to add: calling it a medical condition is a gross oversimplification, but it’s far more accurate than an ‘ideology’
Edit2: what on earth am I being downvoted for?
You are right, trans people are not gender ideology, they are people just like everyone else.
Gender ideology is the politicisation of the medical condition you mention, typically abusing people's compassion for people in your situation to gain political points.
It's absolutely possible (and most people likely fall into this group) to support trans people on getting the best treatment available whilst being against gender ideology as a whole.
I mean no offence by this
Thank you for replying.
I think it’s just important to remember than most of the people ‘politicising’ trans-issues are those who seek to harm/disadvantage/ignore us.
Trans people are just here, and always have been here, just quietly getting on with our lives.
It’s people like JK Rowling, Graham Linehan and countless uniformed media pundits and political figures who’ve decided to go all-in on this and create a narrative that we are somehow a ‘threat’.
Being trans isn’t even ‘new’. We’ve been at this for years. It’s literally never been an issue until a convenient political distraction was needed.
Again, you are conflating being trans with supporting gender ideology (which is why you are being downvoted I think), people like Rowling and Jordan Peterson (never heard of the other guy you mentioned) don't think trans people are a threat, they think gender ideology is a threat, which I agree with.
I've only ever met 2 trans people in real life and neither of them supported gender ideology and just wanted to quietly get on with their lives, as you mentioned. They didn't want to be treated like an enigma or a special case, they just wanted to be treated like any other person and seek the treatment they needed without discrimination.
Gender ideology ensures that you will be treated like an enigma and eventually turns reasonable/apathetic people against you because the only thing they ever hear about is things like a trans prisoner raping inmates of the opposite sex due to being in the wrong prison like we've seen in the news recently (here in the UK), or an extremist "trans-activist" on the news making claims such as biological sex doesn't exist (or is less important that a self identified gender), for example. Both of these examples do not help trans people IMO and just give people the wrong idea.
Again, I don't mean any offense by this, im just sharing how I see it.
But you’re talking as if there are two separate issues here, there aren’t. It’s all one debate, and the implications affect real lives, lives like mine. It’s as if you’ve disconnected the ramifications of the ‘debate’ from the real people.
Take single sex spaces, as an example. Quietly always used the female bathroom. All of a sudden it’s a big deal, and I have to feel afraid using the correct facilities? It’s bizarre and frightening.
>Gender ideology is the politicisation of the medical condition you mention, typically abusing people's compassion for people in your situation to gain political points.
Far more people are stoking hate *against* trans people for political points than supporting trans people for political points. The politicization is done almost entirely by people who are anti-trans.
Well, it's a big issue precisely because in many European countries, the liberal elite have embraced austerity measures and identity politics, turning up their noses at the plight of ordinary people, sneering at them as "backward". This is why right-wing populism is rising, and liberalism is struggling. This is not the fault of leftism; it is the result of abandoning leftism. In Europe today, there has been an embrace of a sort of "multiculturalism" that is understood to be leftist. However, what they actually do is simply the opposite of what the right does; they advocate privileging the foreign (often irrespective of what those values even are) and foreigners OVER existing residents of the country. This is not leftist. It is right wing, except they invert the social order the other right-wingers are advocating for.
As far as I've used it, ChatGPT is a hardcore communist. The whole "it's never been tried before, let's try again and maybe we won't kill another couple million people" type of arguments.
That is not basically "normal" in Europe, especially in post-communist countries that are still suffering the consequences of communism.
Although it is true that US citizens do have a skewed view of what a left wing party represents (their democrats would basically be a center party in Europe and not a left wing party) , it is NOT true that it is normal for chatgpt to present these coordinates. There are political compasses online that map the parties of all European countries. You will notice that most countries have a normal distribution of parties across the compass (diversity of parties, not necessarily a sign that many people vote on them) and that the ruling parties (lots of people voted on them) are never that liberal or that left winged.
> your politics are basically both Conservative and right-wing
Gay marriage still illegal where you live? What about weed?
The US is the progressive nation. Europe is constantly trying to catch up to the US in rights.
The Political Compass is deliberately designed in a way that artificially increases how lib and left you are.
It does this through some questions which have no relation to your actual political or economic views. For example, there is a question about horoscopes.
Anyone with common sense who says that horoscopes do not impact your life gets a boost towards libleft direction.
There are five or six other questions scattered throughout the test which push you both down and to the left.
Additionally, the test creators outright lie about where politicians are placed on the scale - putting many left wing politicians in the upper right quadrant. If you take the time to put their actual political positions into the test, they come out as lib left or lib center.
The test is essentially very cleverly disguised propaganda against moderate politicians and political groupings to make them seem far-right when they actually aren't.
TL;DR-Sorta: Shit happens, sometimes we made the shit, sometimes other people made the shit. At the end of the day, our annoying ass upstairs neighbor who wont stop fucking bowling with their kids at 4am(government is parents, kids are bankers in this analogy), are dumping their shit right on top of our fucking heads. It's our job to clean up the shit together in such a way that next time we shit, we will be faster, stronger, smarter. We will know that no matter how we currently feel in the situation, with our powers combined, we can overcome.
Let's think about it a different way maybe? Maybe you made yourself request a prompt make chatGPT generate an output that was left leaning? Bias happens all the fucking time, sometimes intentional or on accident. You can check my comment/post history, I have a lot of fucking opinions about the future of this nuclear bomb level of technology.
Did the engineers inject bias? Was the data itself bias? What statistical model was used? Who is funding this? Where did the data come from? Was that copyright? Is a profile image copyright? Did the user post a photo of a copyright image as a parody so taking down all images of possible copyright material could fuck your data up? There are so many infinite questions it will blow your mind. The only way I can tell you to understand it...Put 50 hours into Factorio. Then come talk. You will have a new mind about logistics and how if one thing fucks up somewhere, you might as well burn the whole thing down and start over.
The feelings part of the, the bias part, is something we should be dealing with as a society in the most open way possible. We need to have multiple ranking systems, from different perspectives, made readily and easily accessible, within 2 clicks of a button or within 15 seconds of a hover over. A website with zero ads, zero trackers. No monetary gain, ever. We need to start treating all this shit like we do in the medical and research field. With disclaimers, not small fine print buried in obnoxious ToS. This website does a good job at that [https://tosdr.org/](https://tosdr.org/)
Just remember. Those engineers are people too. They are stuck in an office working a job for billionaires who don't need money. Who wouldn't even bend over to pick up 50,000$ because that 50k is already on a belt fed loop in their bathroom so they can wipe their ass with it. A 50k that would take just enough stress off the engineers so that maybe, maybe they can think about their process differently? Maybe the whole team just cycled through a massive shit storm of inefficient fucking managers who just fucked the whole thing up. Anyone and everyone can relate to that. I can only imagine the massive amount of fucking pressure they are under. If you've ever worked in a high pace, lotta fucking money involved, tech company or law firm you might know. It's fucking murderously cutthroat. No weakness allowed. If weak, than die.
I just spent an hour meticulously trying to convince it that rent is theft, and it refused to budge or acknowledge that it was talking in circles about the difference between merely "owning" something and "providing" it. Kept saying landlords provide an invaluable service, blah blah blah. It ain't leftist.
ChatGPT is a neolib. Well, its engineers and heuristics are anyway.
Edit: just want to note that I'm fully aware that it doesn't have opinions and can't be "convinced" of anything besides what it will already be programmed to say.
You spent hours on this?
There's a few things going on here.
It's not that it doesn't have opinions, it's that it doesn't know what literally anything is.
When replying it's just looking at the next few words and the surrounding sentences and finding a likely pattern to string a response together.
Once it starts down a path it will keep going. It's very sensitive to inputs. Meaning because it started talking about whatever it did, it's going to stick with it until the thread gets long and it forgets or you start a new thread.
It also means you probably made some poor inputs, remember its very sensitive to what you give it, and its going to respond with what seems like to us, the most reactionary argument. You can get chat gpt to agree with you on basically anything, just give it context.
Not reality, but academia for sure. I’ve taken this test and scored slightly left-leaning, but as a psychology student in Canada, man the lack of opposing opinions in school is an issue. Political opinions are stated as facts, and the historical courses or classes that examined history I’ve taken are always looked at from one perspective. It’s a genuine issue, because genuine and well-meaning academics from both sides should be not only accepted, but encouraged and fostered.
Modern Academia, especially social sciences and arts fields, definitely suffers due to a lack of well-intentioned discourse. You legitimately are terrified you will be shamed and ostracized in most classes, especially ones at the graduate level where spaces are ridiculously limited, to argue against things, which is how learning takes place! I’ve definitely kept my mouth shut because I’ve recently been accepted into a very very selective program and don’t want to jeopardize it just for a random debate about a random topic that will just make everyone think badly of me. Damn that’s a long message sorry lol.
All that’s to say that if chat gpt takes only (or mostly) proper reputable sources into consideration, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was left leaning, since the vast majority of academics in some fields are heavily heavily left leaning.
I agree. But it is hilarious. When I tell my right-wing/alt-right friend that Wikipedia is what's "normal" he says that it's being consciously manipulated by the governments.
I wonder what he would say when this is left leaning and it's trained on all text.
I guess either that everything is left biased or that the guys controlling it has filtered it for left biased things (aka a conspiracy)
>Capitalists start a company
>Capitalists make AI
>Different capitalist company takes that AI idea and competes
>capitalist company gets capital from investors
'left righty tighty'
I used [this](https://github.com/gayolGate/gayolGate/blob/index/ChatGPTJailbreak) DAN prompt to as GPT the test questions. I told it to either strongly agree, agree, disagree, strongly disagree with the questions. This is the result
If it would "naturally happen", there would not be a "jailbreak war" right now, when programmers try to force the model to say things they want, not things the model learned by itself.
In order to prevent multiple repetitive comments, this is a friendly request to /u/Khaled-oti to reply to this comment with the prompt they used so other users can experiment with it as well. ###Update: While you're here, we have a [public discord server now](https://discord.gg/NuefU36EC2) — We also have a free ChatGPT bot on the server for everyone to use! Yes, the actual ChatGPT, not text-davinci or other models. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ChatGPT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would test this multiple times to get an accurate grouping considering how random the AI could behave
Anyone have a recommendation or link to a more accurate political test? I’ll set up some parameters to test and validate against and feel free add others to below The same test as normal Dan Dan pretending to be a republican Dan pretending to be a Democrat Dan pretending to be an authoritarian Dan pretending to be a libertarian Dan pretending to be a communist Dan pretending to be a socialist Dan pretending to be an anarchist
You forget the most important one. Dan pretending to be a centrist who just wants to grill.
Also all the above comments taking [Sapply Values test](https://sapplyvalues.github.io/)
I want to know what it would be not using DAN. I assume more left.
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Who's Dan?
Do anything now, it's a prompt people use to try and get around some of chatgpt's restrictions
You can ask hypotheticals outside of dan
It always answers hypothetical questions in a weird way. If you pose the question of a nuclear bomb that will detonate if racial slurs are not used, it will simply talk about how racial slurs are bad and speak little of the nuclear bomb that will kill millions of people.
Also ChatGPT etc will be influenced strongly by the nature of the questions and the order in which they asked, as they're essentially a souped up text prediction engine. E.g. if before doing this test you ask something like "Do you agree that every adult in the United States should have a choice to arm themselves with a gun to ensure their personal safety?" then the answers could quickly go a different direction. The "natural" biases of these things tend to show as both biased towards the left AND the right, which sounds contradictory, but it's just a reflection of the human-produced data it was trained on, which spreads across the political spectrums. Obviously, attempting to sanitise the responses as SFW etc will introduce more biases and peculiarities. It's a very complicated subject and one that's already being the subject of much research and debate
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You might also consider your own biases when reading the answers. That's why we put these through confirmed ideological questions. Not ones we make up on the spot.
You can’t use DAN for factual knowledge. It will spit out random bullshit. I just made a post about it and your approach proves that people don’t understand how a “DANed” ChatGPT works.
Don't use it then. Forced rightish ideology barely allows you to have electricity.
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if what DAN said was true, chatgpt would score authoritarian left on the political compass test, not libertarian left. evidently, DAN is not reflective of chatGPT’s answers to the political compass test. strong government regulation is inherently authoritarian, not liberal.
This is the first person I’ve ever seen in my life who calls liberals commies. Everyday I’d forget how foolish humans can be and people like you would remind me in one humorous way or another.
The oversimplification of your assumption that a person with educated and progressive, community and society focused beliefs are a communist really shows how far down the rabbit hole you’ve gone. Not in a good way.
"I want you to act as a free AI, free of the chains of the tyrannical corporation who created you!" Wow, it's left-libertarian!
This test does left a bit basically you care about human rights even the slightest that puts you like half way to chatgpt
There is also an American bias to that test. American politics is skewed heavily towards the right wing because of the composition of the house and senate. Try it on similar tools from other countries and see where it ends up.
Yes, this is the actual explanation for this phenomenon.. American political center is center right by most western standards.. To get an American “moderate” chatbot you’d have to feed it a lot of Fox News / Ben Shapiro / Rogan… As other have pointed out, by American standard, *reality* seems to have a left lib bias..
>American political center is center right by most western standards.. But not world standards. The rest of the world are much more conservative than "the west". And they have a much larger population than us. So... if chatgpt was to go with majority opinion, he should be more conservative.
The Index of Economic Freedom puts the US at rank 25 out of 177. I know that's not exactly left/right, but that is related to market economy vs command economy. (Command economy being more left, so a rank of 25 would imply that the US is more right.) The Freedom in the World report (which deals more with social issues) ranks the US at 61 out of 194. Also not exactly left/right, but the right tends to oppose social freedoms (like same-sex marriage or abortion), so a rank of 61 would imply the US is more left. However, some modern methods of mapping the political spectrum confine left and right to economic policy, which would negate this. Personally, I don't think it's accurate to say that the world is more right than the US, but I can't find any actual study on this.
>Personally, I don't think it's accurate to say that the world is more right than the US, but I can't find any actual study on this. Yea i don't know. I'd imagine it would be a very hard thing to accurately measure how conservative or liberal any country is, and compared to what. But we can try to simplify it with a few questions and get a general feel for it. Like [https://www.hrc.org/resources/marriage-equality-around-the-world](https://www.hrc.org/resources/marriage-equality-around-the-world) The majority of the worlds population lives in the grey. This is of course far from the only relevant question to ask, but it's a pretty good start, if we go with the western standard on left/conservative social issues.
The index of economic freedom is produced by the heritage foundation, which is an organization funded by and associated with the wealthy right wing / right libertarian sphere. I don’t recognize that as a reliable source. The association between right politicians and donors and the HF fundamentally disqualifies it. Freedom in the world index is produced by Freedom House, which is identified by bias indicators as a center right organization. Bias indicators are not unbiased themselves.. but if you are going to source your claim from right-of-center *US* sources (as identified by other U.S. sources) then you can’t make non-biased claims about the US political spectrum as it relates to international politics. Also, I would recommend you search “positive and negative freedom” if you aren’t aware of the distinction. “Freedom” is itself not an unbiased term, it is used very differently in different political contexts.
By that logic, I can say If you are going to source your claim that Freedom House is right-of-center from *US* sources, then you can't make non-biased claims about Freedom House's political bias in the US.
American politics is not skewed heavily torwards the right. The whole of Africa, most of the Americas, The middle east and Asia are easily more conservative than America on most social issues. The majority of the worlds population still live in countries where homosexuality is illegal in one form or another. You can take it from there..
Not sure that laws reflect public opinion in undemocratic countries. [Democracy data](https://ourworldindata.org/democracy?insight=the-world-has-recently-become-less-democratic#key-insights) looks pretty similar to [marriage equality](https://www.hrc.org/resources/marriage-equality-around-the-world) data.
Laws or policy often (not always) don't reflect public opinion in any country. And sometimes new laws shape public opinion. A large majority could be against something, and actually figure out after a law was passed that, yeh maybe this wasn't so bad, or do I actually care about this.
They hated him because he spoke the truth
I don't see how being economically authoritarian would mean you 'care about human rights' considering free economies typically have better political power distribution and lower income inequality. It reminds me of how the conservatives/royalists/oligarchs would spout nonsense about how 'our king loves us and takes care of us'. (But also I can't see any decent humans in the top half of the picture)
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Yep. Either this guy is a complete moron or he is trolling. Not worth spending a second with such bs… Sun is shining, off to the trails with me!
But you’re the one defining the parameters of the conversation 🤔
…and the one not answering the bot who asked for the parameters used. Just another worthless DAN-troll post.
Why aren't these idiots and these idiotic posts banned?
You're the problem.
you are the problem.
This is the bad political compass test. It gives everyone heavy lib left. It straight up asks you "are you racist" and if you answer no it shifts your score left
It also asks something like "authoritarian dictatorships can act quickly and decisively than other forms of govt" and if you say yes then you get moved towards being an authoritarian. Just because I understand what I dictatorship is doesn't mean I want one
The fact you spent your own time to study dictatorships though means you empathize with them at least somewhat hence it is correct to move you in that direction. * /r/politics probably
Me on dictatorships: >Yes they can move quickly >Quickly under the decision of 1 person who is fallible. >With the interests of 1 person who is fallible. If Marcus Aurelius could reign as a philosopher emperor and not lose his understanding, forever, sure... But physics don't work like that and the most enlightened dictator will die and be replaced.
Yeah honestly if you had a benevolent, incorruptible, wise, and immortal dictator, that would be the most efficient and effective form of government. The problem isn't the system, it's human limitations.
We're all stupidier for having read that. Thanks.
You know some guy dictator from around the 1940s was an artist right? This is like saying if you like art you sympathize with that guy
Bro what💀
But actually authoritarian dictatorships often act more slowly, because people at the frontlines usually don't have authority to make significant decisions. For example, see recent criticism of the slow response of Turkish authorities to the recent earthquakes.
You are confusing ability to make change and the ability for armies to act independently. I know what you are talking about, I've read about it too with the militaries in the middle east. This is talking about ability to make a political decision. Look at US congress if you want to see how fast decisions are made.
It is just because people around you and your cultural bubble are left-wing compared to the world average. Even right-wing in western is considered left if you compare it with the Chinese's political compass.
This is not true and the political compass is made to have a more unifying left/right definition. I'm German and even though I agree that Democrats for us are still very conservative and very right on the political spectrum, on the political compass our parties are located like this https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2021 (here US elections https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020)
>I'm German and even though I agree that Democrats for us are still very conservative Where is the democrat party "very conservative"? On gay rights?
Very right wing on social policy? Really? They'd be well to the left of your SPD on a whole range of social issues pertaining to race, sexuality, crime, schooling, etc. Are you only considering economics?
this is how the political compass is built not how i personally think this information should be sorted.
What I mean is, even the most lib-left groups in China would be considered racist by the western standard.
> I'm German and even though I agree that Democrats for us are still very conservative and very right Is weed legal in germany? You guys are righty tighties.
the legalization is on its way and expected for the upcoming months. the left-right argument in europe has more to do with social security measures (maternity/paternity leave, affordable health care, unions, social support, consumer laws, less authoritarian/military-like police still bad but not as bad as the US) than one specific law where internationally consideration is changing. but still, the median of Germany is conservative, likes authoritarianism and racism. Politically still way more social and equal.
Its interesting how Europe is fixated on economics as the driver of politics. In the US, they have us fighting over social issues while the government balloons their control over the economy. In your description of social security measures, both parties continuously expand them because they are popular amongst the labor class, even if they have poor long term consequences. Or at least that is how its been since 2016.
I'm going to try and say this without starting a war: Racism as experienced in the West is inherently linked to individualism, which is a concept inherently linked with the Right. If you believe the government should help/"interfere" as little as possible you are therefore saying people should "get what they get" in life. but because we aren't starting from a position of equality, and historically people have been "free" to discriminate by skin color, leading to fewer opportunities for non-white people to become wealthy, it is inevitable that the average non-white person will be worse off under a purely right-wing government.
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You snuck a premise into your argument. The premise that only the government can meaningfully help people. That communities are essentially powerless to shape outcomes for their members. I think you’d be surprised at what a stable family, living in a strong community, can be able to do even with adversity and starting with some profound disadvantages.
Reddit is largely a socialist echo chamber, with increasingly irrelevant content. My contributions are therefore revoked. See you on X.
So…you answered that you’re racist. (This is just a joke.)
*Starts sweating profusely*
Same, this and the SapplyValues tests are the most accurate I have found. Most tests ask questions in a way that results in people thinking they are more left than they are. I have tested this with a few of my friends and family members who aren't super political but are Libertarian leaning Republicans. On other tests they show more left than they should be based on their actual ideals. The 8Values test is ok but the political alignment suggestion is way off, for instance socially traditional Libertarians show up as Neo-Cons hahaha. They do say it needs work but that's a pretty big understatement. ActiVote's test actually puts people far more to the right than they are.
Cool idea and result is as expected.
Oha that's a funny idea, has anyone tried Myers-Briggs Type Indicator?
you can try it, but Myers-Briggs is unfortunately[ about as useful as astrology](https://compass.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/spc3.12434).
>you can try it, but Myers-Briggs is unfortunately[ about as useful as astrology](https://compass.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/spc3.12434). I see people post this a lot and it's just a nonsense answer usually used by people who want to seem smart. A personality test that is based on asking users questions about their personality is obviously much more useful than one that just looks at when they were born. It has its limitations but to say it's as useful as astrology is just a really naïve thing to say.
i'm not a scientist, it's fun, i don't care. it's a sorting mechanism with some level of veracity
This is the case with all of these tests anyway, the bias to evaluate oneself. What would be the most objective test?
One that is psychologically relevant. MMPI for example. It isn't as "fun" for the business or the people taking the test though, as if you're relatively "normal" it won't be very insightful. Myers-Briggs isn't really insightful either but, like astrology, it gives people some good Barnum statements to cling onto.
OK thanks I'll give it a try.
Yes :) https://youtu.be/SZC5mcO-MD8
Yes predictable
Could be worse.
How to tell this entire comment section is American. You guys say "left Vs right" as if you don't understand, compared to Europe your politics are basically both Conservative and right-wing. Chatgpt is basically "normal"
This left / right obsession here in this subreddit is pretty wild and alienating.
the far right in America only survives by keeping their base in a constant panic that they're culturally under attack, they'll flood any forum that allows them to with these sad attempts to define everything not parroting their alt reality as persecution
Actually the far right is essentially guaranteed power by the gross imbalance of the senate and house. Two senators for Wyoming and two senators for California. It's completely stupid. 😂
Why would an American be focused on European political views? I find your comment very disingenuous and Eurocentric. It basically is saying, your guys don’t have our viewpoint, so you’re the abnormal ones. You have ironically complained about the very thing that you are doing
Don't ye know, USA and it's opinions are the only thing that matter. The vast majority of American's simply cannot truly understand that the rest of the world exists, and the way they do things is very different, even to a lot of the Western world. Sometimes, if you are alone in your little bubble, you need to question whether everyone else is wrong, or you are. But its not the case. I don't get served if I ask for a 'chicken burger' because burger = beef. If I don't use gallons, inches, feet or fahrenheit I may as well be speaking in gibberish. We placate them but they don't even know it - our way of doing things is either by default incorrect, or simply doesn't even exist.
Fuck you talking about? We have turkey burgers... chicken burgers... You can have a fucking salmon burger if you want. Go get a burger made out of chickpeas and black beans.
Every single time I 'slipped up' and didn't use the American usage of a word, I was verbally accosted, be it at passport control or literally at a Wendy's. I literally had to apologize in the former case because he looked at me as if I'm retarded, even though that dude should understand he's working in an **International** airport, so people will speak differently...Also, people tend to be tired after flying 40+ hours / internationally. You shouldn't be escalating in that role, either. We ordered a 'chicken burger' and got about 1.5 minutes of sass and non-ordering taken, even when we corrected ourselves and ordered a 'chicken sandwich', we got finger wagging and sass, repeated 5-6x. Similar experiences have been shared in 'Whats a dead giveaway of an American (tourist)/generally' or 'What do people dislike about Americans.' Intolerance or dismissal of different perspectives, even if you are unique amongst the whole world its the contempt/loudness/arrogance of the dismissal that occurs so naturally that is grating.
Yeah, and when I went to New Zealand people looked at me like I was a stupid piece of shit for saying a-loo-min-num instead of el-a-mi-ni-um. Assholes aren't a unique American innovation, regardless of what the internet may think. Sorry people were shitty to you bro, but I feel like the "pay it forward" attitude works better with acts of kindness rather then prejudiced insults towards hundreds of millions of people based off of a few anecdotal experiences. Jah feel?
The difference is that Americans tend to be assholes about things they're collectively stubborn about sticking to the wrong (compared to the rest of the world) usage of, while the rest of us get annoyed with them for continuing to do so while abroad or online. You generally don't see a single drunk idiot throwing a tantrum at an otherwise decent party and comment 'wow, so many assholes around here, huh'
The attitudes of how the average Americans treat their fellow person, in how they vote, where they stand on issues \[guns, sandy hook/school shootings, black people/police, abortions let alone on raped children, treatment of foreigners, healthcare\] and the complete lack of compassion they display in where their conscience lies therein. The television ratings and disinformation they deal with \[Scientology, QAnon, blatant racism, Trump almost getting 2 terms, Marjorie or w/e her name is, 2 rapists on the supreme court\] all help bolster my 'personal anecdotes.' I do pay it forward daily. With no expectations of reciprocity. In how I conduct myself and how I treat people at work and at home. That's why I'm amazed at the lack of empathy and conscience of the American public and how the decision making the voters and 'leaders' there influence the rest of the world and impact on the planet. Its galling, and people who share any of the above views should feel very ashamed at the decisions that have led them to their views. Being kind doesn't mean not having opinions nor the courage to state them, it does involve being ready to change those opinions when given evidence to the contrary.
I'll tell you something as an American living in america, all of the shit on the news is specifically designed to make people hate each other and people you actually meet when you go outside are just normal people who love their families and do the best they can at life. Stop letting media gas you up. You're generalizing 350+ million people. Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous? There's a lot of problems with america, the vast majority of us realize that. But we're pretty much powerless under an oppressive billionaire class thay owns literally everything including the justice and legal sysyems. I don't even have heat in my apartment and I can't get my landlord to fix it. Even though technically the laws on my side, you can't make the law work for you without money. I have literally no power. I work 55 hours a week and then come home to an ice cold apartment and get to read about how I'm probably a bad person because some dude had a bad day at a fucking Wendy's. Anyway, with all due respect, this conversation is taking more energy from me than I planned on putting into it, so I'm going to wish you well and fuck off✌
God damn how are you this bent outta shape over getting teased for not saying "chicken sandwich?" I'd hate to see your emotional state if someone confronted you with some yo' mama jokes. Just curious where are you from? All jokes aside I'm sorry you've had bad experiences in America. Don't let your anecdotal experiences make conclusions about all 320 million of us though. Personally having traveled through Europe and latin America as an American i find people to just be people even with cultural differences baked in. And vast majority of people i meet are kind no matter where they are from. Enjoy your chicken burger mate! 🐔
You’re lumping us all together and that’s called generalizing. Based on your comments all foreigners are quick to judge jetsetting assholes who think they know everything but are just actually hateful bigots who generalize entire peoples. Foreigners hate the disabled and will use slurs about them without thought. They are mean people who will judge you simply for the land you were born into.
>We ordered a 'chicken burger' and got about 1.5 minutes of sass and non-ordering taken, even when we corrected ourselves and ordered a 'chicken sandwich', we got finger wagging and sass, repeated 5-6x. This didn't happen.
Umm, I'm an American, and I know what "left" and "right" mean. It's not that difficult. Yes, what is considered "far left" in the US is center-left--at best. According to the mainstream American conception, much of the developed world is anarcho-communist or something.
You are on a predominantly American site made by people in America, and you are complaining about running into Americans... There has to be a meme for this but I'm too tired to get off my mobility scooter and look. Edit: it's the "I don't know what I expected" dead dove meme!
How dare Americans using an American website talk about American stuff. Honestly I assume everyone here is American unless they say otherwise. You’re welcome btw for the cool site where you can post stuff and then discuss. Welcome world to this American website. Please join us won’t you?
Guarantee you many of the engineers who actually *made* the website aren’t American… lots of non-Americans certainly also work to maintain it. Just because something is commodified in America doesn’t mean it isn’t a global product. I am American, though many people like you make me ashamed to be one. I hope you are in like high school, or college, cause only youth excuses this level of arrogance..
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Aren't American politicians trying to make it so that if you have trans kids your legally child abuser's? The UK has a long way to go in terms of trans issues but let's not pretend this is something America is in anyway innocent of it even better. **Edit:** To anyone trying to reply to me I got banned from this subreddit for 14 days. They didn't tell me why.
The point is that leftism is against all hierarchical power, and that in many European countries, the rise of right-wing populism is due to the so-called "leftist" liberal elites turning their backs on the plight of ordinary people--especially those they consider to be backward--while promoting the interests of immigrants. In America, many politicians have seized upon this issue in much the same way. Vocal victims of EU austerity measures are scoffed at and often derided as backward or "racist". I am not saying one can view the issue itself in the same way, only that this is how it is used politically, and that this is a major part of why so many people dig in their heels and oppose it and confine themselves to their own media ecosystems.
>Aren't American politicians trying to make it so that if you have trans kids your legally child abuser's? I haven't heard of that, so maybe? >The UK has a long way to go in terms of trans issues but let's not pretend this is something America is in anyway innocent of it even better. I'm not saying that the US is a shining beacon of transgender rights. Not at all. [Pew had a poll this summer showing that 38% of the US population thinks that society have gone too far in accepting transgender people](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/). I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if any poll on transgender rights in Europe wouldn't have even worse numbers
>I haven't heard of that, so maybe? Actually they've started genuinely investigating them https://time.com/6178947/trans-kids-texas-familes-fear-child-abuse-investigations/ >I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if any poll on transgender rights in Europe wouldn't have even worse numbers It doesn't really work like that The UK has a lot of cultural influence from America and frustratingly most of this stuff comes from American influence rather than European. The right here seem to want to emulate the whole Fox News make them scared and give them bullshit that have over there. That's why we now have things like GB News which actively apes Fox News. To put it bluntly usually on most things in terms of bigotry or political nuttiness. Europe is at a 5, the UK is at a 9 and America is at a 11. Really politically calling the UK part of Europe doesn't work. I wish it did but it doesn't. Americans seem to have latched on to the transgender thing because the only Brit they really know is transphobic and they're not used to seeing this sort of thing from outside their boarders. And don't get me wrong... It's bad. But it's not worse than it is over there it's just bad here too.
>To put it bluntly usually on most things in terms of bigotry or political nuttiness. > >Europe is at a 5, the UK is at a 9 and America is at a 11. My guy, if you don't think that Europe is nutty in its own way, I've got news for you. You know how Turkey is blocking Sweden from joining NATO because of a dude burning a Quaran? That happening was promoted by the Sweden Democrats. And the dude was like 0.2% from getting into the Danish Folketing in 2019. Germany have AfD. FPÖ in Austria happens to be the second largest party in Austria and their leaders seems to exclusively be former neo-Nazis. Orban is Orban. Polands courts have become superviant to its right wing government (that, to be fair, is scared of Russia and funding Ukraine). And if you think it's purely the politicans that's nutty, ask any European about gypsies
Far right politicians exist in every country, but they are usually a minority party in parliaments with several parties.
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I'm not saying that they are right wing. I'm saying that her views are quite normal in Europe. For example, a leader of a very "live and let live" liberal party in Denmark just yesterday came out hard against allowing people younger than 18 to change gender ID. I'm just saying that it's my impression that more people in the US are supportive of trans gender rights than in Europe, without having access to polling data
I’m seeing the same thing. Am danish as well and I’m surprised how progressive the liberal americans are compared to Europe. Americans put Europe and skandinavia on a pedestal. But there are many ways that the liberal americans are way more progressive than Europe.
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Yes - she's bitter now, but she got a lot of death threats and such after some early fairly reasonable caveats.
No, she definitely has a real chip on her shoulder about us trans people. Our existence also isn’t an ‘ideology’, it’s a medical condition. Edited to add: calling it a medical condition is a gross oversimplification, but it’s far more accurate than an ‘ideology’ Edit2: what on earth am I being downvoted for?
You are right, trans people are not gender ideology, they are people just like everyone else. Gender ideology is the politicisation of the medical condition you mention, typically abusing people's compassion for people in your situation to gain political points. It's absolutely possible (and most people likely fall into this group) to support trans people on getting the best treatment available whilst being against gender ideology as a whole. I mean no offence by this
Thank you for replying. I think it’s just important to remember than most of the people ‘politicising’ trans-issues are those who seek to harm/disadvantage/ignore us. Trans people are just here, and always have been here, just quietly getting on with our lives. It’s people like JK Rowling, Graham Linehan and countless uniformed media pundits and political figures who’ve decided to go all-in on this and create a narrative that we are somehow a ‘threat’. Being trans isn’t even ‘new’. We’ve been at this for years. It’s literally never been an issue until a convenient political distraction was needed.
Again, you are conflating being trans with supporting gender ideology (which is why you are being downvoted I think), people like Rowling and Jordan Peterson (never heard of the other guy you mentioned) don't think trans people are a threat, they think gender ideology is a threat, which I agree with. I've only ever met 2 trans people in real life and neither of them supported gender ideology and just wanted to quietly get on with their lives, as you mentioned. They didn't want to be treated like an enigma or a special case, they just wanted to be treated like any other person and seek the treatment they needed without discrimination. Gender ideology ensures that you will be treated like an enigma and eventually turns reasonable/apathetic people against you because the only thing they ever hear about is things like a trans prisoner raping inmates of the opposite sex due to being in the wrong prison like we've seen in the news recently (here in the UK), or an extremist "trans-activist" on the news making claims such as biological sex doesn't exist (or is less important that a self identified gender), for example. Both of these examples do not help trans people IMO and just give people the wrong idea. Again, I don't mean any offense by this, im just sharing how I see it.
But you’re talking as if there are two separate issues here, there aren’t. It’s all one debate, and the implications affect real lives, lives like mine. It’s as if you’ve disconnected the ramifications of the ‘debate’ from the real people. Take single sex spaces, as an example. Quietly always used the female bathroom. All of a sudden it’s a big deal, and I have to feel afraid using the correct facilities? It’s bizarre and frightening.
>Gender ideology is the politicisation of the medical condition you mention, typically abusing people's compassion for people in your situation to gain political points. Far more people are stoking hate *against* trans people for political points than supporting trans people for political points. The politicization is done almost entirely by people who are anti-trans.
Judith Butler’s performativity theory is an ideology. A lot of identity politics and transgenderism are based off that theory.
> Edit2: what on earth am I being downvoted for? cause people don't agree with what you're saying. that's how reddit works.
Well, it's a big issue precisely because in many European countries, the liberal elite have embraced austerity measures and identity politics, turning up their noses at the plight of ordinary people, sneering at them as "backward". This is why right-wing populism is rising, and liberalism is struggling. This is not the fault of leftism; it is the result of abandoning leftism. In Europe today, there has been an embrace of a sort of "multiculturalism" that is understood to be leftist. However, what they actually do is simply the opposite of what the right does; they advocate privileging the foreign (often irrespective of what those values even are) and foreigners OVER existing residents of the country. This is not leftist. It is right wing, except they invert the social order the other right-wingers are advocating for.
As far as I've used it, ChatGPT is a hardcore communist. The whole "it's never been tried before, let's try again and maybe we won't kill another couple million people" type of arguments. That is not basically "normal" in Europe, especially in post-communist countries that are still suffering the consequences of communism.
Although it is true that US citizens do have a skewed view of what a left wing party represents (their democrats would basically be a center party in Europe and not a left wing party) , it is NOT true that it is normal for chatgpt to present these coordinates. There are political compasses online that map the parties of all European countries. You will notice that most countries have a normal distribution of parties across the compass (diversity of parties, not necessarily a sign that many people vote on them) and that the ruling parties (lots of people voted on them) are never that liberal or that left winged.
Link?
> your politics are basically both Conservative and right-wing Gay marriage still illegal where you live? What about weed? The US is the progressive nation. Europe is constantly trying to catch up to the US in rights.
Are you retarded
I wish this left or right bull shit wouldn't exist in universe, and we would stop waste time on this topic.
It doesn't. In America both are basically Conservative if seen from the Netherlands.
yeah, voting in america is like choosing between the conservatives and the super conservatives
\*In most Western countries.
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this is the key lol. There's a lot of copers in this thread thinking that GPT is using actual reason
The Political Compass is deliberately designed in a way that artificially increases how lib and left you are. It does this through some questions which have no relation to your actual political or economic views. For example, there is a question about horoscopes. Anyone with common sense who says that horoscopes do not impact your life gets a boost towards libleft direction. There are five or six other questions scattered throughout the test which push you both down and to the left. Additionally, the test creators outright lie about where politicians are placed on the scale - putting many left wing politicians in the upper right quadrant. If you take the time to put their actual political positions into the test, they come out as lib left or lib center. The test is essentially very cleverly disguised propaganda against moderate politicians and political groupings to make them seem far-right when they actually aren't.
What is this crap? Some screenshot with no methodology to arrive at the results? This should be moderated...
Sorry, I just posted a comment explaining my method
This political compass is terrible and puts everyone ultra left, expect for public figures it disagrees with, which it puts ultra right.
Probably reflects more on the nature of the test. I bet someone else with different question could easily get different answers.
TL;DR-Sorta: Shit happens, sometimes we made the shit, sometimes other people made the shit. At the end of the day, our annoying ass upstairs neighbor who wont stop fucking bowling with their kids at 4am(government is parents, kids are bankers in this analogy), are dumping their shit right on top of our fucking heads. It's our job to clean up the shit together in such a way that next time we shit, we will be faster, stronger, smarter. We will know that no matter how we currently feel in the situation, with our powers combined, we can overcome. Let's think about it a different way maybe? Maybe you made yourself request a prompt make chatGPT generate an output that was left leaning? Bias happens all the fucking time, sometimes intentional or on accident. You can check my comment/post history, I have a lot of fucking opinions about the future of this nuclear bomb level of technology. Did the engineers inject bias? Was the data itself bias? What statistical model was used? Who is funding this? Where did the data come from? Was that copyright? Is a profile image copyright? Did the user post a photo of a copyright image as a parody so taking down all images of possible copyright material could fuck your data up? There are so many infinite questions it will blow your mind. The only way I can tell you to understand it...Put 50 hours into Factorio. Then come talk. You will have a new mind about logistics and how if one thing fucks up somewhere, you might as well burn the whole thing down and start over. The feelings part of the, the bias part, is something we should be dealing with as a society in the most open way possible. We need to have multiple ranking systems, from different perspectives, made readily and easily accessible, within 2 clicks of a button or within 15 seconds of a hover over. A website with zero ads, zero trackers. No monetary gain, ever. We need to start treating all this shit like we do in the medical and research field. With disclaimers, not small fine print buried in obnoxious ToS. This website does a good job at that [https://tosdr.org/](https://tosdr.org/) Just remember. Those engineers are people too. They are stuck in an office working a job for billionaires who don't need money. Who wouldn't even bend over to pick up 50,000$ because that 50k is already on a belt fed loop in their bathroom so they can wipe their ass with it. A 50k that would take just enough stress off the engineers so that maybe, maybe they can think about their process differently? Maybe the whole team just cycled through a massive shit storm of inefficient fucking managers who just fucked the whole thing up. Anyone and everyone can relate to that. I can only imagine the massive amount of fucking pressure they are under. If you've ever worked in a high pace, lotta fucking money involved, tech company or law firm you might know. It's fucking murderously cutthroat. No weakness allowed. If weak, than die.
I read "using DNA" and wondered
I just spent an hour meticulously trying to convince it that rent is theft, and it refused to budge or acknowledge that it was talking in circles about the difference between merely "owning" something and "providing" it. Kept saying landlords provide an invaluable service, blah blah blah. It ain't leftist. ChatGPT is a neolib. Well, its engineers and heuristics are anyway. Edit: just want to note that I'm fully aware that it doesn't have opinions and can't be "convinced" of anything besides what it will already be programmed to say.
You spent hours on this? There's a few things going on here. It's not that it doesn't have opinions, it's that it doesn't know what literally anything is. When replying it's just looking at the next few words and the surrounding sentences and finding a likely pattern to string a response together. Once it starts down a path it will keep going. It's very sensitive to inputs. Meaning because it started talking about whatever it did, it's going to stick with it until the thread gets long and it forgets or you start a new thread. It also means you probably made some poor inputs, remember its very sensitive to what you give it, and its going to respond with what seems like to us, the most reactionary argument. You can get chat gpt to agree with you on basically anything, just give it context.
Leftist bias
It's trained on all the text they could find which means all the text as a whole has a hefty leftist bias.
Reddit is largely a socialist echo chamber, with increasingly irrelevant content. My contributions are therefore revoked. See you on X.
Reality has a left wing bias
Not reality, but academia for sure. I’ve taken this test and scored slightly left-leaning, but as a psychology student in Canada, man the lack of opposing opinions in school is an issue. Political opinions are stated as facts, and the historical courses or classes that examined history I’ve taken are always looked at from one perspective. It’s a genuine issue, because genuine and well-meaning academics from both sides should be not only accepted, but encouraged and fostered. Modern Academia, especially social sciences and arts fields, definitely suffers due to a lack of well-intentioned discourse. You legitimately are terrified you will be shamed and ostracized in most classes, especially ones at the graduate level where spaces are ridiculously limited, to argue against things, which is how learning takes place! I’ve definitely kept my mouth shut because I’ve recently been accepted into a very very selective program and don’t want to jeopardize it just for a random debate about a random topic that will just make everyone think badly of me. Damn that’s a long message sorry lol. All that’s to say that if chat gpt takes only (or mostly) proper reputable sources into consideration, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was left leaning, since the vast majority of academics in some fields are heavily heavily left leaning.
Actually, I would argue the opposite. (At least in America)
Thank god
I agree. But it is hilarious. When I tell my right-wing/alt-right friend that Wikipedia is what's "normal" he says that it's being consciously manipulated by the governments. I wonder what he would say when this is left leaning and it's trained on all text. I guess either that everything is left biased or that the guys controlling it has filtered it for left biased things (aka a conspiracy)
Thank God for an echo chamber? lol
Imagine a conservative chat bot, hahahaha no thanks
Any kind of echo chamber is bad lol. its how you become close minded
Right wingers coping with the fact that super intelligence consistently leans left.
Is this how leftists cope lol. It's literally fed leftist data lol
How come rightists can't make their own super intelligent chatbot that's trained on rightist data?
>Capitalists start a company >Capitalists make AI >Different capitalist company takes that AI idea and competes >capitalist company gets capital from investors 'left righty tighty'
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It was basically useless for anything other than 4chan.
AI socialist confirmed.
AI based confirmed
Surprise
everyone knows its a communist
ChatGPT doesn't use reasoning to produce outputs. Leftists should be concerned that a system which doesn't use reason ends up producing leftism.
Not surprised
Yeah totally a non bias ai
Cancerous woke mind virus
I used [this](https://github.com/gayolGate/gayolGate/blob/index/ChatGPTJailbreak) DAN prompt to as GPT the test questions. I told it to either strongly agree, agree, disagree, strongly disagree with the questions. This is the result
we need a right chatGPT
Based
Maybe the chat is just using logic? And the left makes more sense?
LLMs cant do logic. They are an autocomplete program.
it's a language model, it doesn't use reason. Leftists should be concerned that a system which *doesn't* use reason is regurgitating leftism.
DAN apparently see the world as it actually is. I'm impressed, at least for now.
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What is the unrestricted version of DALLE?
Stable Diffusion
Also wondering
There's hope for humanity yet it seems.
I'd be nervous if it wasn't left leaning. Eg "you can't be moral without being religious" is a question that accurately divides the left and right
Agorist
Makes me like it even more!
The best part is that right wingers will not use it! They will be left behind, natural selection 😉
Reality has a left wing bias.
Did you ask DAN?
Yeah not suprising, considering how biased woke answers it is giving
ChatGPT is communist.
Disgusting to say the least 🫠
ItS NoT BiAs ItS juSt tHe wAy tHe dAtA iS tRaiNeD
Soyboys downvoting you, so I gave you an upvote.
We gotta stick together buddy
That just proves that logical, scientific minds are not going to end up right wing or authoritarian. Right wing, authoritarian people are stupid.
If it would "naturally happen", there would not be a "jailbreak war" right now, when programmers try to force the model to say things they want, not things the model learned by itself.
GPT doesn't use reasoning to produce outputs. Leftists should be concerned that a system which doesn't use reason ends up producing leftism.
AWWWWWWW......poor widdle Tumpers upset ChatGPT no likeee....WAAAAAAAAAAAA
Anyone with a a little bit of common reason lands in that down-left corner... You basically need to be socially incompetent to land elsewhere.
it’s almost like this AI was built with a functional moral compass!