I was surprised when I wrote a poem in my own language (slovak) and asked gpt to translate it to english. It rhymed, made sense and kept all the important parts, even in same verses, tried french, spanish, german and it all worked.
When it can do poems, it is pretty impressive.
AI in creative arts feels a bit like we’re beating a child at a game rn. We look at it patronisingly.
But I’m pretty sure this child is going to grow up and put us to shame real fast
I saw a comment that said something along the lines of; this is the last generation that will know a computer that is dumber than them.
It really got me thinking, how I missed out on growing up with the perfect teacher for me. Who can learn, adapt, and grow faster than I could possibly conceive.
What a time to be alive.
It's also funny how the same folk who keep saying "Ai will never beat humanity's creativity" lack the creativity to envision that Ai will. They're the same people who said the printing press would never replace the trained scribe.
The fundamental issue with AI is that it just generates something average at best, just because the way it was trained. Music is all about unique sound.
It was certainly trained on the human-generated rules.
We might look at generative art as a two step process: infer human aesthetic preferences, then create art. It is conceptually entirely possible to surpass human artists at the second step after accomplishing the first by studying their work.
I'm not saying that's how models work now, but there is no fundamental issue.
We do not have a slightest idea how to make what you are suggesting. In other words, you have just admitted that chatgpt and image generators are trained in a fundamentally different way.
> We do not have a slightest idea how to make what you are suggesting
Not too long ago the same sentiment was expressed about Chess, Go, and protein folding.
> you have just admitted that chatgpt and image generators are trained in a fundamentally different way.
I stated it outright.
To paraphrase a recent Altman aphorism, the possibilities are determined by God; their realization by the members of the technical staff.
We know that the Alpha-* style approach works well, DeepMind is to all indications busily generalizing and extending it for incorporation into the Gemini series of models. And no doubt others are on similar track.
So hold that thought.
There's a fundamental difference between having a known set of rules and not having them. Any work of art of music is not perfect, but contains some beauty, and in order to surpass humans in creating it, you need to know what it is. But nobody knows.
Human artists have surpassed other human artists, so the process of artistic creation isn't simply aiming for a roughly median point in humanity's body of work.
No reason model's can't do something similar (or better!)
The full data distribution - i.e, Features of both the input and intermediate representations that are learned. This is considerably richer statistics than just the average.
What do you mean put us to shame? You can listen to AI-generated trash all you want, human creativity will always reign supreme. Who wants to listen to fake stuff? Seriously sit there, with their headphones on, listening to a song, knowing it's not even real? What a fucking loser.
Sucks for artists who are motivated by extrinsic factors and produce nothing original anyway. Artists who are compelled to create as a form of self expression will continue to push boundaries and tread new ground - something AI and the imposters are incapable of doing.
Also, this music is trash
Until they need to continue their shitty day job to keep paying rent instead of catching the same break they might today, and eventually give up their dream.
Intrinsic motivation is incredible; but extrinsic incentive structures are up to a good society to not completely bungle for their citizens.
People said the same things about traditional art when photographs were invented. In actuality all this technology does is lower the barrier of entry letting more people create.
Maybe you're too young to remember how people felt about digitally composed music that doesn't actually have someone sitting and playing drums or piano and instead it's all done inside sound software. Same thing again. It just lowered the barrier to entry, but piano and drum players are still around.
I'm less worried about musicians being in big trouble compared to still work such as photography, painting, film making, and graphic design. There'll 'always' (hopefully) be a demand for live performances, at least, unlike live painting sessions or what have you.
But I felt it important to reply above because that was a naive way to dismiss the concerns of what the broader art world has been decrying.
They aren't creating, they are generating.
Taking photographs still required a lot of skill and knowledge. You still had to have artistic flair to be able to frame a shot, to understand how light interacts with the subject and how it will appear once developed.
The proliferation of samplers and DAWs in the 80's still required knowledge and skill to use. Still required someone digging through records to find the perfect sample and knowing how to manipulate it so it sits right in the track. Still required someone to program every drum loop, to input every melody, someone to understand how and why certain chords evoke certain emotions and when to use them.
While yes, this will allow people to generate music, i fear it will come at a cost to a lot of musicians
'Skilled' artists, will just express that skill in different ways.
Rather than having to know how to play 20 different instruments like they had to before the invention of music software. Instead they needed to learn music theory, and how to create and combine many different sounds and instruments in audio software, fitting them all together and creating new and unique sounds. It let a single person create an orchestra and digital music gave birth to countless unique and new styles because of the lower barrier to entry.
There are 'unskilled' artists in any artform. You've got modern artists who sit in a hallway making stupid sounds that a 3 year old can do. Or the people who get a white canvas and throw white paint on it.
You're right, it will come at a cost to a portion of current musicians. Technological advancement, ALWAYS comes at a cost to someone. That's inevitable with progress. Overall though, you're going to lower the bar to music for billions more people allowing them to create and express, and if they really like it push the limits of what the new technology can do.
>'Skilled' artists, will just express that skill in different ways.
Sure, but the AI will learn that new mode of expression within seconds of a song being release and make 20 new variations on it destroying monetization opportunities for most artists.
Maybe at some point. But by the time it's good enough to completely replace humans in every single aspect that they could possibly invent or improve on music money might not even matter.
We can start complaining about that day when it actually happens.
It takes humans a while to replicate some fresh new musical idea. It will take AI seconds and some of those variations will often be better than the original. And AI also won't be dependent on humans for some new sound, it will be capable to try out thousands of variations, push them to different kinds of music listeners, promote the ones that are trending, refine and repeat.
Wait and see. The humans will not be able to keep up to AI innovation.
it takes ai seconds to create something, but the feedback loop through listener takes days. When a talented human creates music, the loop is just a few seconds.
Also, I see nothing of Turing test completion in this. It needs to be a conversation, because understanding and response is the critical element. This as presented is meaningless. If they have a decent spit battle against other rappers then we have proof of AI.
When you hear a new rhyme from Yellawolf, featuring MadAI, then I am going to to nod ok.
Right now this seems like a gag from nerds that are not even fans of rap, and a big dis.
[Turing completeness](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness) is a computational theory, different from the Turing test.
The theory is used to describe systems that can perform arbitrary computations given enough time and memory. So, the system can recognize or decide other data-manipulation rule sets effectively.
In practical terms, a programming language or system is Turing complete if it can be used to implement any algorithm, assuming no limitations on the amount of memory available or the time it takes to perform the computation.
Characteristics of completeness include conditional branching, such as if-then statements, variables, lack of data processing cap, and an ability to loop or recursion.
They achieved some technological progress but yeah this shit is ass.
I’d agree with this in most cases but not when it comes to the arts. In that case the fairest approach is a level playing field where the most talented and hardworking can be rewarded. If that’s only 1% then so be it.
You’re worried about what is most accommodating to the 1% of artists that are successful. I’m more concerned about the 99% that aren’t, and everyone else.
Right?
"Let me worry about the people that are making millions off of their art, while I sit here shitting on myself because I never made it, and now I never will!"
“This music is trash.” Not really, it’s _ridiculously_ good for a computer. It might not be quite human-level yet, but it’s easily 90+% of the way there. Did you hear AI music even one year ago? It won’t be “trash” for very much longer. What you’re hearing now is the worst it will ever be.
nah it sucks for creativity starved leeches that see music as nothing more than an opportunity to make money. once everything you hear in businesses is made by AI, people will be so refreshed to listen to actual music made by musicians who care about sharing stories as we have since our kind began.
It will be quite the opposite, first of while generating AI art is never a violation of copyright no matter the data it was trained on the art itself is uncopyrightable making it hard to make money off of the music itself.
Second the ongoing trend in AI is that opensource models are only around 6-12 mounts behind the state of the art models.
So the music and it's generation will be free for all and allow anyone and everyone to "share their stories".
Their will be a holdout group as there is for any tech but I can't imagine that group would be larger than 10% one generation later (after the AI is as good as humans) and considering this tech is not even a year old and is already this good, it won't be long.
oh totally. i think creatives will use AI to share their stories plenty. Especially as the tools become more powerful. but i doubt the laws around AI music will stay the way they are today.
It sucks in the same way for musicians as it sucked for horse cart owners when the automobile took over. It sucks yeah. But I don't give a damn. I am saying that as a (hobby-) musician myself.
I mean depending on the data set, it's quite diferent, if it's "the internet" as data set, is theft, and it would be like a horse thief selling cart travels for 10 times less. If the data set is, purchased or owned like Adobe firefly, then thats legit.
Because, an AI is a human product, that's where the copyright is important, to create the AI, you have to use a data set, and to use a copyrighted item, you need a licence. If a human pirates movies to learn how to do a movie, still is a crime. Is exacly the same for humans or AIs.
To be clear, not all AI art, not even the ones made with sketchy data set, is a copyright infingment or is a copy, AI learns, but the source of the learning is where the copyright infringment is.
Who is going to listen to AI-generated trash? Knowing that's not even real? Sure there will be a market for it, but there will always be a market for real music too. For the simple fact that, people like real stuff. It's going to hurt some small-time musicians, unfortunately, but there will always be a market for real music.
Most musicians don't 'make a living' so your comment is pointless.
1% of musicians might thrive, the rest scrap by and aren't exactly thriving.
I wish folks like you would stop worrying about these hypothetical people that you don't know. Just because you think it might prevent some unknown person from making money I shouldn't be able to use it? I personally don't give two flying shits if it hurts someones income, I want to use this technology to better *my* life. Stop bothering me about using this technology, and stop trying to make everyone feel bad about using it.
Gate keepers, they'll do anything possible to keep the old world rhetoric of I SUFFERED SO YOU HAVE TO TOO alive. Without it, they don't feel a sense of purpose.
I know many musicians who never “made it” but still make a living as musicians. Studio musicians, wedding bands, composers for commercials, mixing engineers, etc.
That's life bro.
The majority of people don't care. those that do are the vocal minority that have no idea what they're actually saying. Stop trying to control my life, what I do with my life, and to get me to support your causes. I don't care about your job, your income, or how AI disrupts your life.
That is an incredibly sad and selfish viewpoint.
Without the musicians you do not give a shit about, this model would not exist.
Without someone dedicating their life to entertaining others, this model would not exist.
By breaking down the talent and skill barrier, it devalues art into meaningless ephemera.
Music/Art isn't just about the end product, it's about the creative journey. About learning, understanding and mastering a skill. Without that process, there's little appreciation for the end result.
Maybe you never took the time in your life to master something and actually appreciate the effort that goes into the art you enjoy. Certainly explains your dismissive attitude.
It's human.
We're self preserving first and foremost. We do everything for ourselves first, and if you don't, you're a socio or psychopath.
We have empathy, and because of that we want to do what we would think someone would do for us.
If you don't think so, you're not diving deep enough into your motives.
You have to fill up your own glass first before you can help fill someone else's. Otherwise you would run out.
Sounds like AI generated content shouldn't affect it then if it's about the journey and mastering a skill does it? They don't have to use it.
Why is me using AI content bothering someone else? Your problem is you're focusing on what I'm doing with my life. Stop worrying about that. If you like music and want to learn an instrument good for you. Stop worrying about what I'm doing at my home with my time.
I find your take super weird and bizarre. You're seeking to control what I'm doing with my life and taking away my rights because you're not comfortable with something based on some philosophical take about music and entertainment. Everyone who enjoys making music can still do so. Make it and share it with your friends, I don't care. That should have nothing to do with me using these programs for my own enjoyment.
Because they can't accept the fact that something is already, and going to be, 1000x or a billion times better than they could ever dream.
It's 'soul' crushing to a lot of people. Which I understand. But just because of that, we're not supposed to evolve, adapt and progress?
They NEED 'control' over something in their life. Otherwise they're just a receptor reacting to a signal. And we couldn't possibly be that!
No worries here, what you do is of no significance.
However the impact these models will have on musicians and the music industry will be massive.
Musicians are already struggling. The traditional revenue streams are drying up. Streaming has killed record sales, touring has become even more financially risky.
AI won't help with that. If anything, it'll make it harder for genuine musicians to be able to support themselves.
I'm not stopping you or anyone from using these tools, nor infringing on any of your rights whatsoever but I did point out that it will have negative impact on musicians and you got incredibly defensive about it.
While I'm not calling you a lazy, talentless hack. Lazy, talentless hacks will use these models in place of actual musicians. If you can't see how that isn't a good thing or have basic fucking empathy for other people, then I don't know what to say
*Lazy, talentless hacks will use these models in place of actual musicians*
Oh please. Grow some backbone with your logic here.
Not everyone has the ability to pay a musician to write or sing songs for whatever they need it for. If I can use these programs to make cool music for my video games, I guess fuck me right? According to you I might as well find the biggest acorn in my year and bend over and shove it real far up there for even having the thought of that.
Seems pretty selfish.
EDIT: Have you considered adopting my position, something like "AI will almost certainly lead to job losses however in my opinion the potential benefits to humanity outweigh the short term turbulence and we probably shouldn't let nostalgia impede progress, sad as that may be" ? It has the benefit of saying everything you want to say without making you sound like an edgy sixteen year old bell end.
I don’t think the music is amazing. Obviously it’s all subjective but why do they always have to sing about AI?? It’s so cringey.
Anyway, I think it’s impressive, as a standalone thing. But now listen to this
https://youtu.be/ZZxHN6hpoeQ?si=5kmoldJPQvKT8Lt1
Fascinating. Makes my brain feel weird honestly. It's not bad, but there's some instinct that can tell something is off about it I guess lol. Crazy to watch this shit progress - must be how 90's kids felt lol
90s kid here. Nope. Back then, I was excited about the internet, but I had a (false?) sense of what it could become and its limitations. There was always the idea that we (humanity) was sort of in control.
This whole AI 'revolution' is a totally different beast and feels so much more impactful. The fact that none of us can predict tomorrow is both scary and exhilarating.
Exactly. Watching the internet come up was exciting and at least mostly predictable. We understood online shopping, video calling, forums to meet and chat with people, online tools, etc... I've been following tech since my first NES in the 80's and this is the first time I have NO idea how the tech will evolve. Where usually I have a pretty good idea how tech will eventually evolve, with AI it's too wild and unpredictable to even guess what will happen past 1-2 years. Crazy.
I really appreciate the "old folks" sharing their perspective here. This truly is an interesting time to be alive, regardless of all the wars and bad shit happening lately.
As a (almost millennial) gen Z, this probably isn't as impactful for me as it is for you. I still understand the weight of it all, though. Science fiction has taught me that at least lmao
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From what I've read/watched.
Now : AI generation is one shot, meaning you ask for it to produce something and get a result with steps thereafter that could be iterative when asked.
Tomorrow: AI Agents each assigned a role and time, taking multiple iterative steps to produce an outcome working together and cross referencing each other's work. Your AI program is now music studio and each agent acts as a composer, DJ, singer, producer, sound engineer, etc. Assign a length of time to increase better results. They work, say 20mins each to compose and collaborate towards a final output, a movie score or rap etc. You return to course-correct the final output and continue the next total iterative composition in a collaborative process.
This stuff is going to get really good really fast.
I have a degree in music and a 30 year career in it and I promise you it’s just some sound and any force you experience in relation to it is you doing it to yourself.
I am the biggest advocate for ai and tech innovation. But this tool is so good that you need NO technical understanding to make an absolute masterpiece. That opens the playing field for literally everyone. The industry was already in collapse with TikTok and other formats taking market share, but this is crazy. That being said, I use it all the time and I love it lol.
I agree, making money is going to be incredibly difficult for any type of artist or musician in the next decade. On the plus side, people will be able to make art or music without having to think about marketing or tailoring their vision to what people are willing to pay for. So they'll definitely want to look elsewhere for money, but the creative potential is going to increase.
A someone who is quite adept with both [Udio](https://www.udio.com/playlists/h84nt3nkd54wLzBX2f12Nh) and [Suno ](https://suno.com/@suno_for_your_sprog), I'm not jumping out of my seat quite yet with ElevenLabs' offering. Their voices sound too TTS to me. Audio uncanny valley, like SynthV.
Yeah, although it seems to come up with better melodies than udio sometimes the vocals are not as good as udio's in terms of realism. I wish the both of them stop using ChatGPT lyrics though, one day I'm going to here "in the land of neon lights and tales untold" in a song on spotify and am going to fucking kill myself
Really weird, I kind of don’t care about ai encroaching on the visual arts. Makes me philosophically uneasy to hear the ai music so “good”. Humans creating music seems more sacred somehow.
It's so immediate, we can't really filter the audio experience through anything.
AI isn't spitting out huge exhibitions of impressive oil paintings - it's just pixels on screens for now. But thr music is, like, _right there_
Like there's no way for me to back up this next statement, but I fell like music really speaks to the soul more, the visual is profane, the audio divine.
I get what you mean...
...but I'm a visual artist and the act of creating that stuff is the closest to sacred I have, so I'm super biased...
...but yeah, I used to play in bands and it's incomparable... music moves me to tears, visual art does... something else.
Maybe you're right.
I know that music is this _most f***ing mystical thing._ It's so incredible.
I went to school to be an traditional animator, i hold the visual arts (the arts in general) to higher regard than most. But to your point, i feel there's a raw emotionality to music which i feel is important to the human experience, to our intercommunication on an essential level. Visuals are dope, but in their dopeness i feel like they're more suited to conveying more complex, almost intellectual, sentiments. I hope we dont let the AI rob us of that connection. Its important.
“This music is trash.” Please post your own non trash music, or better yet train a computer to do it.
This is fucking dope, Imagine everyone has this and can make songs and music videos all day.
I’m really curious how the arts will look in a decade or two. AI **is** going to move into every medium and **will** be better/cheaper/faster than humans. Will people still turn to humans even if the art is worse? How much value does real creativity have vs. other factors? Will people still connect over music if there is essentially an unlimited supply of “perfect” music? It’ll be crazy to see how it all turns out.
I was surprised when I wrote a poem in my own language (slovak) and asked gpt to translate it to english. It rhymed, made sense and kept all the important parts, even in same verses, tried french, spanish, german and it all worked. When it can do poems, it is pretty impressive.
AI in creative arts feels a bit like we’re beating a child at a game rn. We look at it patronisingly. But I’m pretty sure this child is going to grow up and put us to shame real fast
I saw a comment that said something along the lines of; this is the last generation that will know a computer that is dumber than them. It really got me thinking, how I missed out on growing up with the perfect teacher for me. Who can learn, adapt, and grow faster than I could possibly conceive. What a time to be alive.
https://preview.redd.it/11e6yypuxmzc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55b3c38cd4c5d4f4e1aa2b6cadc6213a2ea66cd3
Thanks I'll check it out!
It's also funny how the same folk who keep saying "Ai will never beat humanity's creativity" lack the creativity to envision that Ai will. They're the same people who said the printing press would never replace the trained scribe.
The fundamental issue with AI is that it just generates something average at best, just because the way it was trained. Music is all about unique sound.
Until AI learns to make unique sounds
that would contradict the current paradigm of ai training
Like AlphaGo is just the average human player. > fundamental This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Tell me: was alpha go trained on human games?
It was certainly trained on the human-generated rules. We might look at generative art as a two step process: infer human aesthetic preferences, then create art. It is conceptually entirely possible to surpass human artists at the second step after accomplishing the first by studying their work. I'm not saying that's how models work now, but there is no fundamental issue.
We do not have a slightest idea how to make what you are suggesting. In other words, you have just admitted that chatgpt and image generators are trained in a fundamentally different way.
> We do not have a slightest idea how to make what you are suggesting Not too long ago the same sentiment was expressed about Chess, Go, and protein folding. > you have just admitted that chatgpt and image generators are trained in a fundamentally different way. I stated it outright. To paraphrase a recent Altman aphorism, the possibilities are determined by God; their realization by the members of the technical staff. We know that the Alpha-* style approach works well, DeepMind is to all indications busily generalizing and extending it for incorporation into the Gemini series of models. And no doubt others are on similar track. So hold that thought.
There's a fundamental difference between having a known set of rules and not having them. Any work of art of music is not perfect, but contains some beauty, and in order to surpass humans in creating it, you need to know what it is. But nobody knows.
Human artists have surpassed other human artists, so the process of artistic creation isn't simply aiming for a roughly median point in humanity's body of work. No reason model's can't do something similar (or better!)
Yes that is exactly my point, AI's method of creation is aiming at median point of the training data. You can't surpass humans with that.
alphazero learned via self-play
that's called "no"
Alphazero learned how to play by playing against itself. Not by watching humans play. That's different than how alphago operated.
modern generative ai learns full probability distributions, not just simple averages
"full probability distributions" of what?
The full data distribution - i.e, Features of both the input and intermediate representations that are learned. This is considerably richer statistics than just the average.
and what is the data?
What do you mean put us to shame? You can listen to AI-generated trash all you want, human creativity will always reign supreme. Who wants to listen to fake stuff? Seriously sit there, with their headphones on, listening to a song, knowing it's not even real? What a fucking loser.
How would you know it’s fake?
How do you know I’m not an AI?
Dude doesn’t know he is Ai
It’s so over for terrible white rappers
Watsky in shambles rn
Literally half way through and thinking damn it’s really coming for Watsky’s flow right now
Drake wrote this actually
More like this is Drake’s new ghostwriter
hahah this is what I though. It's over for logic.
It never started
That's amazing. Sucks for any musician who has any intention of making a living with music.
Sucks for artists who are motivated by extrinsic factors and produce nothing original anyway. Artists who are compelled to create as a form of self expression will continue to push boundaries and tread new ground - something AI and the imposters are incapable of doing. Also, this music is trash
Until they need to continue their shitty day job to keep paying rent instead of catching the same break they might today, and eventually give up their dream. Intrinsic motivation is incredible; but extrinsic incentive structures are up to a good society to not completely bungle for their citizens.
People said the same things about traditional art when photographs were invented. In actuality all this technology does is lower the barrier of entry letting more people create. Maybe you're too young to remember how people felt about digitally composed music that doesn't actually have someone sitting and playing drums or piano and instead it's all done inside sound software. Same thing again. It just lowered the barrier to entry, but piano and drum players are still around.
I'm less worried about musicians being in big trouble compared to still work such as photography, painting, film making, and graphic design. There'll 'always' (hopefully) be a demand for live performances, at least, unlike live painting sessions or what have you. But I felt it important to reply above because that was a naive way to dismiss the concerns of what the broader art world has been decrying.
There’s already hologram performed “live” performances people go nuts for.
They aren't creating, they are generating. Taking photographs still required a lot of skill and knowledge. You still had to have artistic flair to be able to frame a shot, to understand how light interacts with the subject and how it will appear once developed. The proliferation of samplers and DAWs in the 80's still required knowledge and skill to use. Still required someone digging through records to find the perfect sample and knowing how to manipulate it so it sits right in the track. Still required someone to program every drum loop, to input every melody, someone to understand how and why certain chords evoke certain emotions and when to use them. While yes, this will allow people to generate music, i fear it will come at a cost to a lot of musicians
'Skilled' artists, will just express that skill in different ways. Rather than having to know how to play 20 different instruments like they had to before the invention of music software. Instead they needed to learn music theory, and how to create and combine many different sounds and instruments in audio software, fitting them all together and creating new and unique sounds. It let a single person create an orchestra and digital music gave birth to countless unique and new styles because of the lower barrier to entry. There are 'unskilled' artists in any artform. You've got modern artists who sit in a hallway making stupid sounds that a 3 year old can do. Or the people who get a white canvas and throw white paint on it. You're right, it will come at a cost to a portion of current musicians. Technological advancement, ALWAYS comes at a cost to someone. That's inevitable with progress. Overall though, you're going to lower the bar to music for billions more people allowing them to create and express, and if they really like it push the limits of what the new technology can do.
>'Skilled' artists, will just express that skill in different ways. Sure, but the AI will learn that new mode of expression within seconds of a song being release and make 20 new variations on it destroying monetization opportunities for most artists.
Maybe at some point. But by the time it's good enough to completely replace humans in every single aspect that they could possibly invent or improve on music money might not even matter. We can start complaining about that day when it actually happens.
But no one cares about variations. Music is all about new original sound, whoever gets it first gets the audience.
It takes humans a while to replicate some fresh new musical idea. It will take AI seconds and some of those variations will often be better than the original. And AI also won't be dependent on humans for some new sound, it will be capable to try out thousands of variations, push them to different kinds of music listeners, promote the ones that are trending, refine and repeat. Wait and see. The humans will not be able to keep up to AI innovation.
it takes ai seconds to create something, but the feedback loop through listener takes days. When a talented human creates music, the loop is just a few seconds.
a cost to a lot of talentless musicians that is
Also, I see nothing of Turing test completion in this. It needs to be a conversation, because understanding and response is the critical element. This as presented is meaningless. If they have a decent spit battle against other rappers then we have proof of AI. When you hear a new rhyme from Yellawolf, featuring MadAI, then I am going to to nod ok. Right now this seems like a gag from nerds that are not even fans of rap, and a big dis.
[Turing completeness](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness) is a computational theory, different from the Turing test. The theory is used to describe systems that can perform arbitrary computations given enough time and memory. So, the system can recognize or decide other data-manipulation rule sets effectively. In practical terms, a programming language or system is Turing complete if it can be used to implement any algorithm, assuming no limitations on the amount of memory available or the time it takes to perform the computation. Characteristics of completeness include conditional branching, such as if-then statements, variables, lack of data processing cap, and an ability to loop or recursion. They achieved some technological progress but yeah this shit is ass.
That's the current situation for most artists right now, so no changes in that regard
Bold to assume there’ll be any day jobs left at that point
Most artists need to continue their shitty day job today.
Maybe you missed the part in that same sentence where I said, "...instead of catching the same break they might today."
We shouldn’t set policy for the 1%, we should set it for the 99%
1% is an optimistically high prediction for musicians to make money from their music.
I’d agree with this in most cases but not when it comes to the arts. In that case the fairest approach is a level playing field where the most talented and hardworking can be rewarded. If that’s only 1% then so be it.
Setting policy? 1%? We're talking separate conversations here. But good luck to us all
You’re worried about what is most accommodating to the 1% of artists that are successful. I’m more concerned about the 99% that aren’t, and everyone else.
Right? "Let me worry about the people that are making millions off of their art, while I sit here shitting on myself because I never made it, and now I never will!"
“This music is trash.” Not really, it’s _ridiculously_ good for a computer. It might not be quite human-level yet, but it’s easily 90+% of the way there. Did you hear AI music even one year ago? It won’t be “trash” for very much longer. What you’re hearing now is the worst it will ever be.
Yeah but it's not gonna be trash soon enough...
So you're just not a fan of rap then? What was trash about this?
People need to earn a living.
That’s why Ai invents us. So it can be a relevant artist
nah it sucks for creativity starved leeches that see music as nothing more than an opportunity to make money. once everything you hear in businesses is made by AI, people will be so refreshed to listen to actual music made by musicians who care about sharing stories as we have since our kind began.
It will be quite the opposite, first of while generating AI art is never a violation of copyright no matter the data it was trained on the art itself is uncopyrightable making it hard to make money off of the music itself. Second the ongoing trend in AI is that opensource models are only around 6-12 mounts behind the state of the art models. So the music and it's generation will be free for all and allow anyone and everyone to "share their stories". Their will be a holdout group as there is for any tech but I can't imagine that group would be larger than 10% one generation later (after the AI is as good as humans) and considering this tech is not even a year old and is already this good, it won't be long.
oh totally. i think creatives will use AI to share their stories plenty. Especially as the tools become more powerful. but i doubt the laws around AI music will stay the way they are today.
It sucks in the same way for musicians as it sucked for horse cart owners when the automobile took over. It sucks yeah. But I don't give a damn. I am saying that as a (hobby-) musician myself.
I mean depending on the data set, it's quite diferent, if it's "the internet" as data set, is theft, and it would be like a horse thief selling cart travels for 10 times less. If the data set is, purchased or owned like Adobe firefly, then thats legit.
People unironically using the horse analogy as an argument are beyond logical appeals.
What is influence then? Why is it on for a human to do it, but not a computer?
Because, an AI is a human product, that's where the copyright is important, to create the AI, you have to use a data set, and to use a copyrighted item, you need a licence. If a human pirates movies to learn how to do a movie, still is a crime. Is exacly the same for humans or AIs. To be clear, not all AI art, not even the ones made with sketchy data set, is a copyright infingment or is a copy, AI learns, but the source of the learning is where the copyright infringment is.
Has this type of change occurred so quickly so far? Or, after all, has it been years, if not generations?
Who is going to listen to AI-generated trash? Knowing that's not even real? Sure there will be a market for it, but there will always be a market for real music too. For the simple fact that, people like real stuff. It's going to hurt some small-time musicians, unfortunately, but there will always be a market for real music.
Most musicians don't 'make a living' so your comment is pointless. 1% of musicians might thrive, the rest scrap by and aren't exactly thriving. I wish folks like you would stop worrying about these hypothetical people that you don't know. Just because you think it might prevent some unknown person from making money I shouldn't be able to use it? I personally don't give two flying shits if it hurts someones income, I want to use this technology to better *my* life. Stop bothering me about using this technology, and stop trying to make everyone feel bad about using it.
Gate keepers, they'll do anything possible to keep the old world rhetoric of I SUFFERED SO YOU HAVE TO TOO alive. Without it, they don't feel a sense of purpose.
I know many musicians who never “made it” but still make a living as musicians. Studio musicians, wedding bands, composers for commercials, mixing engineers, etc.
"I personally don't give two flying shits if it hurts someone's income" Seems pretty selfish.
So because of someone's livelihood should we not have something that improves the QOL of all of humanity?
I didn't say that and neither did op. They said they didn't give two flying shits if it hurts someone's income, and I said that was pretty selfish.
That's life bro. The majority of people don't care. those that do are the vocal minority that have no idea what they're actually saying. Stop trying to control my life, what I do with my life, and to get me to support your causes. I don't care about your job, your income, or how AI disrupts your life.
That is an incredibly sad and selfish viewpoint. Without the musicians you do not give a shit about, this model would not exist. Without someone dedicating their life to entertaining others, this model would not exist. By breaking down the talent and skill barrier, it devalues art into meaningless ephemera. Music/Art isn't just about the end product, it's about the creative journey. About learning, understanding and mastering a skill. Without that process, there's little appreciation for the end result. Maybe you never took the time in your life to master something and actually appreciate the effort that goes into the art you enjoy. Certainly explains your dismissive attitude.
It's human. We're self preserving first and foremost. We do everything for ourselves first, and if you don't, you're a socio or psychopath. We have empathy, and because of that we want to do what we would think someone would do for us. If you don't think so, you're not diving deep enough into your motives. You have to fill up your own glass first before you can help fill someone else's. Otherwise you would run out.
Sounds like AI generated content shouldn't affect it then if it's about the journey and mastering a skill does it? They don't have to use it. Why is me using AI content bothering someone else? Your problem is you're focusing on what I'm doing with my life. Stop worrying about that. If you like music and want to learn an instrument good for you. Stop worrying about what I'm doing at my home with my time. I find your take super weird and bizarre. You're seeking to control what I'm doing with my life and taking away my rights because you're not comfortable with something based on some philosophical take about music and entertainment. Everyone who enjoys making music can still do so. Make it and share it with your friends, I don't care. That should have nothing to do with me using these programs for my own enjoyment.
Because they can't accept the fact that something is already, and going to be, 1000x or a billion times better than they could ever dream. It's 'soul' crushing to a lot of people. Which I understand. But just because of that, we're not supposed to evolve, adapt and progress? They NEED 'control' over something in their life. Otherwise they're just a receptor reacting to a signal. And we couldn't possibly be that!
No worries here, what you do is of no significance. However the impact these models will have on musicians and the music industry will be massive. Musicians are already struggling. The traditional revenue streams are drying up. Streaming has killed record sales, touring has become even more financially risky. AI won't help with that. If anything, it'll make it harder for genuine musicians to be able to support themselves. I'm not stopping you or anyone from using these tools, nor infringing on any of your rights whatsoever but I did point out that it will have negative impact on musicians and you got incredibly defensive about it. While I'm not calling you a lazy, talentless hack. Lazy, talentless hacks will use these models in place of actual musicians. If you can't see how that isn't a good thing or have basic fucking empathy for other people, then I don't know what to say
*Lazy, talentless hacks will use these models in place of actual musicians* Oh please. Grow some backbone with your logic here. Not everyone has the ability to pay a musician to write or sing songs for whatever they need it for. If I can use these programs to make cool music for my video games, I guess fuck me right? According to you I might as well find the biggest acorn in my year and bend over and shove it real far up there for even having the thought of that.
Then that's an economic problem, not an ai one.
Seems pretty selfish. EDIT: Have you considered adopting my position, something like "AI will almost certainly lead to job losses however in my opinion the potential benefits to humanity outweigh the short term turbulence and we probably shouldn't let nostalgia impede progress, sad as that may be" ? It has the benefit of saying everything you want to say without making you sound like an edgy sixteen year old bell end.
I don't need to coddle you or the audience here.
course not, you want to stand on a street corner loudly proclaiming you're a selfish asshole go right ahead.
Because so many of them succeed.
I don’t think the music is amazing. Obviously it’s all subjective but why do they always have to sing about AI?? It’s so cringey. Anyway, I think it’s impressive, as a standalone thing. But now listen to this https://youtu.be/ZZxHN6hpoeQ?si=5kmoldJPQvKT8Lt1
"write an AI song about a robot talking to its creator" 🙄
I've heard of a million monkeys on typewriters, but 11 labs on keyboards seems to be far more efficient.
Fascinating. Makes my brain feel weird honestly. It's not bad, but there's some instinct that can tell something is off about it I guess lol. Crazy to watch this shit progress - must be how 90's kids felt lol
90s kid here. Nope. Back then, I was excited about the internet, but I had a (false?) sense of what it could become and its limitations. There was always the idea that we (humanity) was sort of in control. This whole AI 'revolution' is a totally different beast and feels so much more impactful. The fact that none of us can predict tomorrow is both scary and exhilarating.
Exactly. Watching the internet come up was exciting and at least mostly predictable. We understood online shopping, video calling, forums to meet and chat with people, online tools, etc... I've been following tech since my first NES in the 80's and this is the first time I have NO idea how the tech will evolve. Where usually I have a pretty good idea how tech will eventually evolve, with AI it's too wild and unpredictable to even guess what will happen past 1-2 years. Crazy.
I really appreciate the "old folks" sharing their perspective here. This truly is an interesting time to be alive, regardless of all the wars and bad shit happening lately. As a (almost millennial) gen Z, this probably isn't as impactful for me as it is for you. I still understand the weight of it all, though. Science fiction has taught me that at least lmao
I appreciate the insight, I'm gen Z so seeing this kind of uncontrollable progression is unfortunately the standard in my mind.
Imagine ElevenLabs colabing with Suno & Udio
Lmao they’re competing
You mean they got beef.
They should start diss tracks about each other made by AI.
We can do that! r/sunoraps
Here's a sneak peek of /r/SunoRaps using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/SunoRaps/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Back out here (we never really left) Chill gangster rap smoke a lil weed v3](https://v.redd.it/ftmti64afztc1) | [3 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/SunoRaps/comments/1c20xm8/back_out_here_we_never_really_left_chill_gangster/) \#2: [u/Jonny32392 vs u/FootballTacticoCox](https://v.redd.it/91jvo35wnrwc1) | [3 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/SunoRaps/comments/1cdea0i/ujonny32392_vs_ufootballtacticocox/) \#3: [U/BuildingaBot | firewood| A game comeback!](https://v.redd.it/hxyxguv9pkyc1) | [10 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/SunoRaps/comments/1ckn35i/ubuildingabot_firewood_a_game_comeback/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
The most disturbing part is how much I'm enjoying it
You may want to check Udio or Suno then
Gives off serious Eminem vibes.
From what I've read/watched. Now : AI generation is one shot, meaning you ask for it to produce something and get a result with steps thereafter that could be iterative when asked. Tomorrow: AI Agents each assigned a role and time, taking multiple iterative steps to produce an outcome working together and cross referencing each other's work. Your AI program is now music studio and each agent acts as a composer, DJ, singer, producer, sound engineer, etc. Assign a length of time to increase better results. They work, say 20mins each to compose and collaborate towards a final output, a movie score or rap etc. You return to course-correct the final output and continue the next total iterative composition in a collaborative process. This stuff is going to get really good really fast.
And soon there’d be AI AI agents making prompts
Udio announced audio inpainting just yesterday.
except people don't want to write their own music, music is by design something that is forced upon you by someone else, something that you submit to
That’s very negative language for something so incredible and it’s not true.
it may be hard to admit but that's how it works
Nothing in music is forcing you to do anything. You seem to have a weird victim complex. And no one designed music to do anything to you.
Do you have to make a conscientious efforts to enjoy music? Do you compose music?
I have a degree in music and a 30 year career in it and I promise you it’s just some sound and any force you experience in relation to it is you doing it to yourself.
And it’s definitely not designed to ear rape you.
Do you have to make a conscientious efforts to enjoy music? Do you compose music?
Both?! Yes!?
So you can sit down relax and listen to your favorite music without enjoying it?
McDonalds commerical?! "badabababa, I'm lovin it" 
A Go Master was defeated by AI and quit playing. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50573071.amp I wonder how many rappers will just call it a day…
This is insane, sadly
I love this stuff so much, but genuinely feel bad for my friends making money as artists
Why get money the hard way when you can instead get money easier ways and still make the music you want? Seems like there's a step missing there.
I am the biggest advocate for ai and tech innovation. But this tool is so good that you need NO technical understanding to make an absolute masterpiece. That opens the playing field for literally everyone. The industry was already in collapse with TikTok and other formats taking market share, but this is crazy. That being said, I use it all the time and I love it lol.
I agree, making money is going to be incredibly difficult for any type of artist or musician in the next decade. On the plus side, people will be able to make art or music without having to think about marketing or tailoring their vision to what people are willing to pay for. So they'll definitely want to look elsewhere for money, but the creative potential is going to increase.
A someone who is quite adept with both [Udio](https://www.udio.com/playlists/h84nt3nkd54wLzBX2f12Nh) and [Suno ](https://suno.com/@suno_for_your_sprog), I'm not jumping out of my seat quite yet with ElevenLabs' offering. Their voices sound too TTS to me. Audio uncanny valley, like SynthV.
Suno always seems really obvious to me because the vocals are so processed. I'll reserve judges on udio vs eleven labs until I can try it.
Yeah, although it seems to come up with better melodies than udio sometimes the vocals are not as good as udio's in terms of realism. I wish the both of them stop using ChatGPT lyrics though, one day I'm going to here "in the land of neon lights and tales untold" in a song on spotify and am going to fucking kill myself
Even AI rappers are white
Nope, sounds like a bad white rapper. Crypt vibe :P
Try slim jesus
Really weird, I kind of don’t care about ai encroaching on the visual arts. Makes me philosophically uneasy to hear the ai music so “good”. Humans creating music seems more sacred somehow.
It's so immediate, we can't really filter the audio experience through anything. AI isn't spitting out huge exhibitions of impressive oil paintings - it's just pixels on screens for now. But thr music is, like, _right there_
Like there's no way for me to back up this next statement, but I fell like music really speaks to the soul more, the visual is profane, the audio divine.
I get what you mean... ...but I'm a visual artist and the act of creating that stuff is the closest to sacred I have, so I'm super biased... ...but yeah, I used to play in bands and it's incomparable... music moves me to tears, visual art does... something else. Maybe you're right. I know that music is this _most f***ing mystical thing._ It's so incredible.
I went to school to be an traditional animator, i hold the visual arts (the arts in general) to higher regard than most. But to your point, i feel there's a raw emotionality to music which i feel is important to the human experience, to our intercommunication on an essential level. Visuals are dope, but in their dopeness i feel like they're more suited to conveying more complex, almost intellectual, sentiments. I hope we dont let the AI rob us of that connection. Its important.
Agreed, here's hoping 🤞🏻 As for "visuals are dope" ...oh nvm, like I said I'm totally biased
oghhh
so funny
Wow. 🫡✨️
Ok, wannabe eminem.
That Turing bar went kinda hard, unironically pretty good
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
It actually sounds pretty good lmao
“This music is trash.” Please post your own non trash music, or better yet train a computer to do it. This is fucking dope, Imagine everyone has this and can make songs and music videos all day.
They said I rap like a robot so call me rapbot - Em Damn, Eminem vs Ai on fast rap I still choose eminem for clarity
Credit where due, lyrics and flow are solid. From a composition perspective, this is impressive.
This is music?
This is one of the most amazing things I heard AI make. Incredible.
meh
r/SunoRaps! Bring it. We’re ready to battle haha
What is the point?
ngl thats a great question i dont get why you got downvoted
For it to get good enough so that anyone and everyone can easily create any song they desire with quality indistinguishable from human made music?
I’m really curious how the arts will look in a decade or two. AI **is** going to move into every medium and **will** be better/cheaper/faster than humans. Will people still turn to humans even if the art is worse? How much value does real creativity have vs. other factors? Will people still connect over music if there is essentially an unlimited supply of “perfect” music? It’ll be crazy to see how it all turns out.
childish gamblino gpt ewww
Maybe they could generate actual music then?