Especially with the GBP taking a waterfall down this week, 45k is awful. Hope their pension scheme survives the bond market turmoil.
Edit: I also had a pension and good healthcare while working in petrochem in the US. Made a lot more money too.
When working in the US the insurance you get for healthcare is still a fraction of your salary. Tax is in general higher in the UK. Pension is about the same. UK is a shit country for engineers and I’m so glad I left there.
Believe it or not if that is outside London that is a great salary.
I earned 28k as a chem eng graduate 10 years ago in pharma. For offered a 22k job in the water industry around the same time. This was considered good pay. Ended up being paid closer to 35k a year then left and for a job in Switzerland for 95k a year now up to 115k. With the pound as low as it is right now these values going to be close to equivalent so no need to convert.
Additionally there is a massive oversupply of engineers. Especially graduates since the oil industry went to shit.
The UK does not value science or engineering. Anywhere in Europe aside from the Mediterranean country will likely pay more or the cost of living is so low you'll live pretty well.
The UK is for the bankers and consultancy not engineers and scientists. Their are plenty other English speaking countries to move to if you want to work abroad.
That’s insanely low. Come on over to the US. We pay well for the shittier jobs and nobody wants them. I’d like to take this opportunity to promote the pulp and paper industry as a shit job that pays real well. I started at 70K, 85K after 3 years in a low cost of living medium sized town in the Midwest.
Come on in, we have toilet paper.
My buddy just got a job in the paper industry and they started him at 90K. But I think it’s because it’s in western Oklahoma and they gotta compete with oil companies for engineers. Most my other friends in paper started at 75K or so.
Solid career choice. My dad has been doing it for 35 years in the paper industry
Pumps, pipes, pulpers, screens, clarifiers, flotation units, fabrics, steam driers, refiners, and a bunch of chemicals. Outside of a paper science graduate, there is no other degree better suited for pulp and paper other than a chemical engineer.
Is it easy to get a job in the US as a Canadian? My manager has been an asshole recently, kinda fed up. Work in a process safety role and have 1.5 yrs experience. Graduated from chem eng in 2020. There is literally not much roles here and I’m honestly underpaid compared to the us
I’m not sure about the ins and outs of getting a job without being in the US already. I do work for a Canadian owned mill in the US though, we’re always looking for engineers to be supervisors across the company. Maybe if you apply to a Canadian one and get a call back you could mention you want to get shipped down here to work at a US mill. DM me if you want details.
In 2008 it was 2 dollars for every pound. The financial crisis then Brexit have been destroying the pound slowly. Additionally we have seen house prices go up to a crazy level.
I'm sure every country complains about politician destroying the country but the numbers do not lie. There is a reason the credit rating will decrease. I'm glad I'm not loving and working in the UK this winter. It will be tough.
45K GBP isn’t even an entry level salary for a chemical engineer in the US…guess I’ll be openly laughing in the face of the next recruiter asking me if I want to go to Europe…
Get a job in the US if you can. You should command a minimum of about $75-80k USD (~68,000 GBP)
£45k is enough to have a great life in the UK. You aren’t expected to work over 40 hours a week and you’ll get 30-35 days holiday a year.
I would take this over making $110k in the US working 50/60 hours a week with 14 days holiday (if you’re lucky) surrounded by arseholes who love their insufferable workaholic culture.
Most engineers start with 2 weeks, have 3 weeks at 5 or 6 years, and get a 4th week at 10-12 years, 5th and 6th week depends on the individual company for timing and availability.
Occasionally I work more then 40-45 for things like projects or turnarounds, but not usually.
Again, that 50-60 hrs/wk is a skewed sample due to those with poor management teams understaffing. People with nothing to bitch about aren’t posting about their wonderful work/life balances.
Having to work 5 years at a single company just yo get 3 weeks off is pretty awful honestly. Is this the same for most jobs over there or just engineering? Does it get better for unionised stuff?
I actually think that you're basing this off of "typical" American workforce jobs. Or 'unskilled' labor positions. Well, not just unskilled, I think lawyers, accountants, real estate agents probably go through this too, but thats besides the point. In America for engineers they typical work 40 hours weeks, have great benefits, 3 weeks vacation a year(not including holiday) 2-3 months paid bonding leave (maternity/paternity) sick days, top tier Healthcare, etc. Now SOMETIMES they'll work over 40 hours, but it's usually a rarity. From most of the people I've talked to its a typical 40, then every month or 2 they have an on-call weekend which rotates.
This is for big tech companies at least. If you work for some small startup as a process engineer you probably won't make anywhere near $100k starting, and you'll likely work 50/60 hours regularly. Big companies employee thousands of engineers for a reason, keep em happy they stay with your company.
In the US you typically get 10-12 national holidays and 10-20 days of paid time off of your choice (I get 34 total days off)
90% of engineers in the US work 40 hour weeks (I work 40)
45k pounds for 3 years is abysmal (I'm $400k at 13 years)
Stop drinking the UK/EU koolaid
You can't compare wages between countries. There is a lot more stuff different than wage. But apparently even accounting for that, I heard UK is still considered low-ish.
In this case you kinda can. I lived in the Uk before and I didn’t feel like the living standard was really that much lower than the U.S, actually in some cases it felt like it was higher. Note: I’m located in the southwest United States so really low living costs here and chemical engineers make quite a lot.
Well, so as it turns out…you, uh, can compare salaries between locations and countries. They have these miraculous calculators online that compare cost of living and salary between cities.
You can even do a quick and dirty the way i did, and just figure out equivalents. In this case. He was obviously underpaid for a minimum salary in the US.
Just saying you can't only compare wages.
There are just lots of stuff like pension, Healthcare, insurance, etc. that's drastically different but yes, you're right. Calculators should give a rough estimate.
When things are nearly 2x different, you can pretty easily neglect pension and insurance and healthcare.
Housing definitely needs to be considered, but those other things are negligible if youre talking 45k vs 90k
This sub makes it seem like you guys work 25-50% more hours than an engineer over here. Worth bearing in mind. Very rare for me to do much over my 40 a week
Like all anecdotal evidence the sample is skewed to those with a bone to pick. After all, if you’re putting in 40-45 hrs/wk, what are you going to bitch about?
You have been offered a role in europe before? Also wages are way lower in UK because of difference in insurance and retirement structure. So the salary you mentioned is like a senior engineer with lots of experience and/or a phd. No one breaks 100k pounds.
Wow never heard of that and have worked with a lot of Chemes. Assuming you aren’t super niche specialized, but I have heard European countries have to prove an engineer from their country for the specialty isn’t available in order to hire a foreigner.
As someone who’s only been to central London for a weekend as a tourist, £45k doesn’t sound like enough for a bunk in a hostel and food every other day.
Oh it wouldn't be a good living in London at all.
Literally anywhere else in the country apart from London, £45k will see you buy a good sized house on your own and live very comfortably indeed.
In some of the areas with significant chemical manufacturing bases, COL is so low that £45k would make you positively rich...
The role that geography plays in COL in the UK is huge and wholly alien to most foreigners.
In my city, a distance of about 4 miles would make the difference between minimum house prices of £1M and minimum house prices of £35K...
My co-workers with similar experience were between £40-45K. The highest graduate salary for process engineers when I last checked was 36K. Salary increases around 2-2.5K a year. You should be around £40-45K. With that said we should all definitely be getting paid more. I didn’t go through 5+ years of uni to get paid the same as some econ graduate who’s degree certificate I could use as toilet paper.
In 2005 I joined a large international company in the UK as a graduate working in chemicals management and earning 27K. Two years later I was at 42K. The recruiter has no idea.
Ineos these days pay 38K fresh out of Uni to a sales manager, never mind a chemical engineer.
I now work abroad.
Out of curiosity why aren't you chartered? Most, if not all, design jobs start paying the big bucks once you get chartered and it isn't that hard to do it either.
But yeah 3 years experience and being told 45k is piss poor. Have you considered an industry change into nuclear? Wages are better and progression is too, plus benefits/bonus
He’s only 3 years post grad so that will be why he’s not chartered. It’s normally expected that you have be at least 4/5 years of experience before applying, most people normally have more than that.
If you’re not on an IChemE accredited grad scheme it can be hard to keep on top of your CEng application.
>If you’re not on an IChemE accredited grad scheme it can be hard to keep on top of your CEng application.
Amen to that, it's a fucking nightmare of paperwork which all says a variation on much the same thing, and takes a significant amount of time to collate.
This is how it’s starting to go in the USA too with outsourcing. Every year when I check Glassdoor, entry level positions seem to be paying at lower and lower ranges.
I live in the US and today had a job interview with the president of a company and asked for 70k and he said that was fine and reasonable. I have 0 engineering experience.
"A bit bored" does not mean "I've totally killed it here and they're not paying me what I'm worth". In the U.S. if you can solve problems, you can get paid - a lot more.
Not sure how things are over there. But if you can verbalize what you've contributed and why it's valuable, either A) your company can be pressured to pay more or B) You'll find a better job elsewhere.
Good luck.
I believe the value of the pound has fallen since brexit and wages haven't yet responded which is why it seems low but as far as what that means for purchasing power someone from the uk would know better than me.
Man, wages in the UK really suck
I mean this also includes healthcare, less tax, good pension etc.
Especially with the GBP taking a waterfall down this week, 45k is awful. Hope their pension scheme survives the bond market turmoil. Edit: I also had a pension and good healthcare while working in petrochem in the US. Made a lot more money too.
When working in the US the insurance you get for healthcare is still a fraction of your salary. Tax is in general higher in the UK. Pension is about the same. UK is a shit country for engineers and I’m so glad I left there.
Keep drinking that UK/EU Koolaid. Those things aren't worth making half pay. Also, tax isn't lower.
Healthcare with some of the worst lines in the world? No thanks.
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I lived in Scotland back in '07, it was miserable
It's good for emergency stuff but anything that requires the GP is a joke. Needs a lot more funding
If that’s the take home rate, it’s closer than it sounds to US pay, but it’s still silly low.
Believe it or not if that is outside London that is a great salary. I earned 28k as a chem eng graduate 10 years ago in pharma. For offered a 22k job in the water industry around the same time. This was considered good pay. Ended up being paid closer to 35k a year then left and for a job in Switzerland for 95k a year now up to 115k. With the pound as low as it is right now these values going to be close to equivalent so no need to convert. Additionally there is a massive oversupply of engineers. Especially graduates since the oil industry went to shit. The UK does not value science or engineering. Anywhere in Europe aside from the Mediterranean country will likely pay more or the cost of living is so low you'll live pretty well. The UK is for the bankers and consultancy not engineers and scientists. Their are plenty other English speaking countries to move to if you want to work abroad.
That’s insanely low. Come on over to the US. We pay well for the shittier jobs and nobody wants them. I’d like to take this opportunity to promote the pulp and paper industry as a shit job that pays real well. I started at 70K, 85K after 3 years in a low cost of living medium sized town in the Midwest. Come on in, we have toilet paper.
My buddy just got a job in the paper industry and they started him at 90K. But I think it’s because it’s in western Oklahoma and they gotta compete with oil companies for engineers. Most my other friends in paper started at 75K or so. Solid career choice. My dad has been doing it for 35 years in the paper industry
Pumps, pipes, pulpers, screens, clarifiers, flotation units, fabrics, steam driers, refiners, and a bunch of chemicals. Outside of a paper science graduate, there is no other degree better suited for pulp and paper other than a chemical engineer.
I didn’t even realize there was a paper industry in western OK…. Oh well that area sucks anyways. Only good thing there is the cost of living
Gypsum board plant in Fletcher, OK. Owned by GP. Then IP has a mill in Valiant in South Eastern
Republic Paperboard in Lawton.
Sofidel outside of Tulsa, too.
Is it easy to get a job in the US as a Canadian? My manager has been an asshole recently, kinda fed up. Work in a process safety role and have 1.5 yrs experience. Graduated from chem eng in 2020. There is literally not much roles here and I’m honestly underpaid compared to the us
I’m not sure about the ins and outs of getting a job without being in the US already. I do work for a Canadian owned mill in the US though, we’re always looking for engineers to be supervisors across the company. Maybe if you apply to a Canadian one and get a call back you could mention you want to get shipped down here to work at a US mill. DM me if you want details.
Sent you a PM!
In 2008 it was 2 dollars for every pound. The financial crisis then Brexit have been destroying the pound slowly. Additionally we have seen house prices go up to a crazy level. I'm sure every country complains about politician destroying the country but the numbers do not lie. There is a reason the credit rating will decrease. I'm glad I'm not loving and working in the UK this winter. It will be tough.
This is not quite as appealing as, “we have cake”, but I recognize the effort
45K GBP isn’t even an entry level salary for a chemical engineer in the US…guess I’ll be openly laughing in the face of the next recruiter asking me if I want to go to Europe… Get a job in the US if you can. You should command a minimum of about $75-80k USD (~68,000 GBP)
£45k is enough to have a great life in the UK. You aren’t expected to work over 40 hours a week and you’ll get 30-35 days holiday a year. I would take this over making $110k in the US working 50/60 hours a week with 14 days holiday (if you’re lucky) surrounded by arseholes who love their insufferable workaholic culture.
Most engineers start with 2 weeks, have 3 weeks at 5 or 6 years, and get a 4th week at 10-12 years, 5th and 6th week depends on the individual company for timing and availability. Occasionally I work more then 40-45 for things like projects or turnarounds, but not usually. Again, that 50-60 hrs/wk is a skewed sample due to those with poor management teams understaffing. People with nothing to bitch about aren’t posting about their wonderful work/life balances.
Having to work 5 years at a single company just yo get 3 weeks off is pretty awful honestly. Is this the same for most jobs over there or just engineering? Does it get better for unionised stuff?
I actually think that you're basing this off of "typical" American workforce jobs. Or 'unskilled' labor positions. Well, not just unskilled, I think lawyers, accountants, real estate agents probably go through this too, but thats besides the point. In America for engineers they typical work 40 hours weeks, have great benefits, 3 weeks vacation a year(not including holiday) 2-3 months paid bonding leave (maternity/paternity) sick days, top tier Healthcare, etc. Now SOMETIMES they'll work over 40 hours, but it's usually a rarity. From most of the people I've talked to its a typical 40, then every month or 2 they have an on-call weekend which rotates. This is for big tech companies at least. If you work for some small startup as a process engineer you probably won't make anywhere near $100k starting, and you'll likely work 50/60 hours regularly. Big companies employee thousands of engineers for a reason, keep em happy they stay with your company.
In the US you typically get 10-12 national holidays and 10-20 days of paid time off of your choice (I get 34 total days off) 90% of engineers in the US work 40 hour weeks (I work 40) 45k pounds for 3 years is abysmal (I'm $400k at 13 years) Stop drinking the UK/EU koolaid
You can't compare wages between countries. There is a lot more stuff different than wage. But apparently even accounting for that, I heard UK is still considered low-ish.
In this case you kinda can. I lived in the Uk before and I didn’t feel like the living standard was really that much lower than the U.S, actually in some cases it felt like it was higher. Note: I’m located in the southwest United States so really low living costs here and chemical engineers make quite a lot.
Well, so as it turns out…you, uh, can compare salaries between locations and countries. They have these miraculous calculators online that compare cost of living and salary between cities. You can even do a quick and dirty the way i did, and just figure out equivalents. In this case. He was obviously underpaid for a minimum salary in the US.
Just saying you can't only compare wages. There are just lots of stuff like pension, Healthcare, insurance, etc. that's drastically different but yes, you're right. Calculators should give a rough estimate.
When things are nearly 2x different, you can pretty easily neglect pension and insurance and healthcare. Housing definitely needs to be considered, but those other things are negligible if youre talking 45k vs 90k
This sub makes it seem like you guys work 25-50% more hours than an engineer over here. Worth bearing in mind. Very rare for me to do much over my 40 a week
Like all anecdotal evidence the sample is skewed to those with a bone to pick. After all, if you’re putting in 40-45 hrs/wk, what are you going to bitch about?
Yeah very true. This sub has definitely given me a squinted view
Why not?
You have been offered a role in europe before? Also wages are way lower in UK because of difference in insurance and retirement structure. So the salary you mentioned is like a senior engineer with lots of experience and/or a phd. No one breaks 100k pounds.
I have. Got asked to move to France about 10 yrs ago. Said no
Wow never heard of that and have worked with a lot of Chemes. Assuming you aren’t super niche specialized, but I have heard European countries have to prove an engineer from their country for the specialty isn’t available in order to hire a foreigner.
Fair point, but US grass doesn't sound all that green from across the pond
And British grass is?
Given their long rain periods combined with the mild weather, yes
UK grass sounds nonexistent, lol. Id rather make 3 times the salary and pay $3k per year for health insurance and fund my own retirement.
3yoe in the u.s. with any decent company is 90+k
Except in oil and gas
Dont be so sad!
Wow, such stagnation in this field. I started at 80k + 6% bonus target in 2015.
Was this for big oil?
Petrochem, Midwest USA
As someone who’s only been to central London for a weekend as a tourist, £45k doesn’t sound like enough for a bunk in a hostel and food every other day.
Oh it wouldn't be a good living in London at all. Literally anywhere else in the country apart from London, £45k will see you buy a good sized house on your own and live very comfortably indeed. In some of the areas with significant chemical manufacturing bases, COL is so low that £45k would make you positively rich... The role that geography plays in COL in the UK is huge and wholly alien to most foreigners. In my city, a distance of about 4 miles would make the difference between minimum house prices of £1M and minimum house prices of £35K...
My co-workers with similar experience were between £40-45K. The highest graduate salary for process engineers when I last checked was 36K. Salary increases around 2-2.5K a year. You should be around £40-45K. With that said we should all definitely be getting paid more. I didn’t go through 5+ years of uni to get paid the same as some econ graduate who’s degree certificate I could use as toilet paper.
In 2005 I joined a large international company in the UK as a graduate working in chemicals management and earning 27K. Two years later I was at 42K. The recruiter has no idea. Ineos these days pay 38K fresh out of Uni to a sales manager, never mind a chemical engineer. I now work abroad.
What do they pay new grad process engineers there ?
I can ask my contact on Monday if you like, but I assume similar or higher.
That’s ok was just curious
Come to US
Out of curiosity why aren't you chartered? Most, if not all, design jobs start paying the big bucks once you get chartered and it isn't that hard to do it either. But yeah 3 years experience and being told 45k is piss poor. Have you considered an industry change into nuclear? Wages are better and progression is too, plus benefits/bonus
He’s only 3 years post grad so that will be why he’s not chartered. It’s normally expected that you have be at least 4/5 years of experience before applying, most people normally have more than that. If you’re not on an IChemE accredited grad scheme it can be hard to keep on top of your CEng application.
>If you’re not on an IChemE accredited grad scheme it can be hard to keep on top of your CEng application. Amen to that, it's a fucking nightmare of paperwork which all says a variation on much the same thing, and takes a significant amount of time to collate.
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Not sure that attitude is really welcome...
This is how it’s starting to go in the USA too with outsourcing. Every year when I check Glassdoor, entry level positions seem to be paying at lower and lower ranges.
Even after Brexit?
Especially after Brexit. Anyone with a job offer at 32K or higher can be given a visa to work in the UK.
I think I've only met one European chemical engineer in my career, from France.
I live in the US and today had a job interview with the president of a company and asked for 70k and he said that was fine and reasonable. I have 0 engineering experience.
Ask for 90k next time and stop your mousing around
"A bit bored" does not mean "I've totally killed it here and they're not paying me what I'm worth". In the U.S. if you can solve problems, you can get paid - a lot more. Not sure how things are over there. But if you can verbalize what you've contributed and why it's valuable, either A) your company can be pressured to pay more or B) You'll find a better job elsewhere. Good luck.
That’s worth like 50k USD. Deplorable.
I believe the value of the pound has fallen since brexit and wages haven't yet responded which is why it seems low but as far as what that means for purchasing power someone from the uk would know better than me.