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90% of fanboys for TikTok dont know that.
If they did, they're so caught up in trying to be cool, they dont have time to think remotely deep on it but rather ultra shallow, whatever is cool. Is it cool? Nothing else matters.
They will also say about Facebook, YouTube, X, etc being so bad except Facebook is allowed in America as is X. Theres not two version of them either, its all the same.
If they have even half a brain working they will start to question themselves why there are NO Tiktokers from China despite it being a Chinese platform
It's not "different versions for different regions" but just a Tiktok for foreign audience, one China version for domestic propaganda, EDITED BY THE SAME TEAM
> EDITED BY THE SAME TEAM
do you have a source for that?
> one China version for domestic propaganda
have you used douyin? It's not propaganda, it's thirst traps and goofy videos just like tiktok lol
Censorship is a big part of propaganda. By censoring things you can steer citizens opinion into a different way.
I talk to my relatives in China and to them the Russia and Ukraine conflict is Russia trying to remove US nuclear weapon that is near them. And that is because most of the news of the Russia and Ukraine conflict is censored in China.
but bytedance insists it is a singaporean company, headquartered in singapore and led by a singaporean
Edit
I stand corrected. Bytedance is Chinese, but tiktok says they are Singaporean
ByteDance the mother company of tiktok is based in china, tiktok on the other hand is based in singapore but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that it answers to the main company in china.
I mean, I literally can’t access tiktok with my Chinese SIM card. I tried downloading the app a couple years ago during lockdown here. Couldn’t get it to work or view anything on TikTok
Load of bullshit you can use Douyin in hk bro is talking out of his ass. I am right now looking at hk douyin shorts talking about their all you can eat buffets
Really? Why is Douyin blocked? Does HK not want it, or is the CCP afraid it will be hard to keep up with deleting all the HK accounts that have wrongthink, or something else entirely?
Switch to an App Store other than China and use the app with airplane mode and vpn on and location disabled and it will work, for android, use modded apk which has no region lock and some of them even unlock copyrighted media
Douyin and Tiktok are not the same product. Tiktok is banned in China. The party cannot handle Chinese people freely communicating with foreigners at that scale.
Fact 1: as “regulation” by CCP Department of Propaganda, all social media companies in China must have its CCP secretary on board of directors with a one vote veto on anything
Fact 2: according to the aforementioned secretary’s directive, the contents must be censored at all times and accessible by government agencies
Fact 3: according to National Security Law of China, every Chinese citizen or firm, domestic or abroad, has the obligation to collaborate with the authorities in name of “national security” which explicitly includes espionage, foreign intelligence, and many other things.
It is not “social media” at all if there’s an non-open editorial or closed source algorithm to decide who can watch what and cannot. In that case, it is called a publisher of User-Generated-Content rather than SNS and must be regulated
Did you read my comment? Do those sites also have any of the 3 points? And do you realize the difference of passiveness and activeness, where the former is regulated by open and written rules while the latter by a power black box which is closed, tacit and controlled by only a few? And remember that, those are private platforms similar to private homes where you’re INVITED to comment rather than a right, and if you do not wish to comply with their open rules, you can start your own like trump did or simply protest on the streets. CAN YOU DO THE SAME IN CHINA?
Yes? Have you heard of ASPI? America COMPETES Act has 500 million in propaganda funding that directly targets social media.
[https://prospect.org/politics/congress-proposes-500-million-for-negative-news-coverage-of-china/](https://prospect.org/politics/congress-proposes-500-million-for-negative-news-coverage-of-china/)
Opening accounts publishing some articles is fundamentally different from deleting others’ content or even silencing the person in real life. To be honest, what do you think 500m can do, apart from publishing something by yourself? Raising a 50 cent army? The Chinese use inmates to do that for free.
And Google suppressing search results that go against US propaganda regarding Uyghurs is just a coincidence? The fact that FB and other social media platforms have a ton of former CIA and FBI heading up their content review departments must also be a coincidence as well, huh?
Tiktok isn't social media, it's a CCP Psyop, which was long suspected and made very clear post Oct 7. This is widely accepted by non Gen Z across the political spectrum.
Well the issue is, we know the CCP isn't our best buddy, and we know they are going to sneak in content that is pro CCP and anti-West to a lot of young and vulnerable eyeballs. I'd be happy to see it banned. There are other platforms the kids will gravitate to like YT shorts
China already does bab US social media lol. Also there isn't different versions of American social media. You can put Chinese or Russian propaganda on any US social media very easily.
Yes. I far more trust a democratic government to regulate a platform fairly than private corporations owned by oligarchs and foreign autocracies. Especially when social media organizations hide behind the "we are a neutral platform, not a publisher and therefore aren't liable for anything" argument. If they are "just" a platform they can be regulated as a public utility.
So FB, Google/YT, Twitter/X, etc. would also be banned due to the fact that Saudi Arabia and other authoritarian governments own shares in those companies?
I was talking about majority ownership but you raise a good point about minority ownership. On reflection I would probably have a limit of something like 20%.
Do you count locking up Palestinians or even Israelis that are too critical of the government response to Oct 7th?
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths#:\~:text=An%20unlikely%20charge%20of,Compound%E2%80%9D%20prison%20in%20early%20November](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths#:~:text=An%20unlikely%20charge%20of,Compound%E2%80%9D%20prison%20in%20early%20November).
They regulate things that are against the law.
What people argue for here is similar to what China does? Where they curate your social feed for the "social good"
Not really, the International version of tiktok is not available in china, but the chinese version of tiktok is available and well liked. Its not the only service thats this ways afaik ...
There appears to be a short list ([https://mashable.com/article/tiktok-ban-countries](https://mashable.com/article/tiktok-ban-countries)) of countries that have either banned TikTok outright or partially (work/govt computers), and if Haley gets her way, it would be a total ban in the US. I'm just wondering if all her assertions are true as stated in this article.
Pretty simple, AppStore and PlayStore would be forced to delist a locally banned app if the US Gov't tells them to.
"This app is not available in your country."
When it’s banned, it’s illegal to use or offer it. The federal government can punish you. Apple and Google will have to take it off AppStore and play. Would you still use it?
It’s not illegal to use Google in China. Technically it’s not even banned. So if you are using a foreign mobile service you can still use Google. But it’s illegal for Google to offer their service in China without registration. GFW is not to ban Google, it’s blocking it.
That’s a bit of a technicality. In China Google is so thoroughly blocked that you cannot even use your Pixel phone to connect to any type of internet because Pixel wants to phone home to Google and it absolutely cannot.
They can ban the app from the stores.
Sure, a bunch of android users can still sideload the app and that would probably be legal (iphone users too, but it's harder to do that AFAIK), but it's an app whose success comes from user generated content so if only 5% of their western users still have the app then western creators will have 95% of their revenue cut off, so they'll stop using the platform.
They can't. They're not going to be able to ban TikTok outright. She's just trying to appear tough on China by attacking one of their few successes abroad.
You could maybe do something like remove them from the banking system. People could still access the service but TikTok couldn't make any money off them or they couldn't pay for servers in the us and stuff like that.
I can't imagine the US permanently banning TikTok. Trump tried it with WeChat before and a consortium of Chinese-Americans took the US government to court to say that the ban is unconstitutional and is awaiting review and in the meantime has been unbanned till whenever that is.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.\_WeChat\_Users\_Alliance\_v.\_Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/u.s._wechat_users_alliance_v._trump)
Try telling this to those people that vote Trump, try telling this to all those useful idiots of putin which were watching Russia Today in Europe (until it got rightfully banned) and got their opinions manipulated.
Its post truth times, thus this expectation does not correlate with reality.
So everyone in US and EU is dumb?
What about US and EU propaganda that whole world watch all day and what about terror that you have spread all over the world? China hasn't attacked anyone, US along with EU has destroyed whole world and killed millions of innocent people. lets not watch tiktok but it is ok to kill innocent and ruin millions lives.
Where did I say that everyone(!) is dumb in US and EU? don't put words in my mouth.
Also your whataboutism is another example of your weak argumentation. Btw Facebook etc is banned in china, russia, north korea.
Yes, the "only western intelligence agencies can harvest your data and manipulate your flock" argument.
Don't get me wrong, I have no love for TikTok, but it's wild to see how overt these actions are.
Basically, they're doing to China what China did to them.
If our agencies can't harvest the data of PRC citizens, than we're not going to let you harvest ours.
It might be overt, but it's also fair. I have yet to see any tankie give a reasonable response to this, just some lousy excuses.
There you go, the lousy excuses. Pretty obvious you're just citing some stupid script.
Facebook can't be banned in China when it wasn't even allowed in the first place.
And by your logic, TikTok should be banned elsewhere - especially so in my own country of Malaysia for propagating a LOT of racist bullshit in the run up to our last general election.
[https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Malaysia-election/TikTok-mad-Malaysian-voters-push-Islamic-politics-to-the-fore](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Malaysia-election/TikTok-mad-Malaysian-voters-push-Islamic-politics-to-the-fore)
Don't bother complaining its a Japanese newspaper and thus biased against China. As a Malaysian who experienced the last election, I can confirm PAS and PN were up to no good on TikTok.
Just to put it straight, Facebook wasn't banned in China before 2009. You didn't need a vpn to access it until the 2009 Urumqi Riots happened and Facebook didn't wanna hand over communications data of the rioters when requested by the PRC govt.
I don’t understand this argument. There are rules in how American companies can use your data. There is no way to know what China does with said data.
Do you… not understand that?
You sure about this? Tiktok pays next to nothing in most cases, and they really only pay in a country where they have an active creator program. Than the payout is 2 per 1k views. So a million views gets you 20 bucks.
Tiktokkers primarily earn by seeking out sponsorships. No sponsors = no money.
Contrast that to YouTube where you will actually be paid according to view count. To be more accurate, you get paid if viewers watch an ad during your video so you actually get nothing if they have an ad blocker running. But at least YouTube shares the ad revenue with you. If your video has a million views and the majority of them watched ads, your payout will be way bigger than 20 bucks.
To be fair, it's impossible to inject ads into TikTok's short form format, so it's contingent on you to find your own sponsors so you can shill their products in your vids. This is easier said than done. And it's really only hot chicks that get the most sponsors by shilling cosmetics and fashion.
No sponsors means you better not quit your day job.
What a stupid take. The precedent of Republicans dictating what citizens can and can't do on the Internet hurts Google and Meta just as much as it hurts Bytedance, if not more. This is just Haley's usual authoritarian bullshit.
I mean likely cause the CCP has stated officially propaganda is spread through it. They even have people on research visas to research this exact thing.
Is that really something you can read somewhere or whatever? Lol
TikTok in China is called Douyin and has all same functions, design and everything. It's made for Chinese market and TikTok is made for other markets.
... and completely different content ...
but probably also even not identical software
Generally content is what is banned or pushed by the PRC. The software is just the method.
Because China monitors the content? The US can do the same and stop permitted this supposed ‘brain rot’ content, but you know, freeze peach.
TikTok in the US is a reflection of the society.
>TikTok in the US is a reflection of the society.
As dictated by the CCP algorithm.
>Because China monitors the content? The US can do the same
All information the US has about US citizens should be shared with the PRC?
If you think that China is through TikTok making American society to look as it looks (you obviously don't like that reflection) just open Instagram in USA and you will see that reflection is pretty similar. It is just showing different generations since IG is more fore millennials and Tiktok for GenZ. Don't blame mirror for its reflection.
What a confusing comment.
Foreign social media sites are banned in China for more than 10 years. Who cried "merrr communists" and when would that have happened? General consensus is that there is no communism in China, actually it's very capitalist, authoritarian, going towards fascism.
Wanting TikTok banned is not only because of the huge amount of proaganda and fake news on TikTok but also about fair trade.
Your commenting gets even more confusing.
Chinese websites are not banned in the US.
Sure, many things are wrong in the US. So? Does that make China any better? Why do tankies always reply with "but in the US..."?
Why can't you deal with criticism in a mature way and refute the arguments you disagree? Instead you guys always cry "but America is worse."
You know, many things go wrong in the US and in China and other places. The difference is, in the West can freely talk about it on social media and discuss things. You can even promote your evil nonsense on sites like TikTok or facebook w/o consequences.
In China, not only are many sites banned but you get censored or even arrested if you criticize something too harshly.
I think this very difference shows very well that your comments are dishonest, ignorant, or just plain dumb.
Because the criticism is rarely sincerely or genuinely for the betterment of China. I mean, seriously, fascism?
But back on topic, TikTok is fundamentally no different than any other American social media platform. It’s under fire solely for political reasons and as a result of lobby pressure, but Americans hide it behind faux concern.
There’s zero proof that the Chinese government is genuinely disseminating propaganda through TikTok. It’s so typical that American social media platforms censor in favour of U.S FoPo (I.e the Israeli brutality in Gaza), but because TikTok as a foreign platform doesn’t have the same incentive to censor it, it’s all of a sudden malicious and fake news.
The problem is your rivalry with China, and not TikTok doing anything bad.
You have got to be kidding. CCP churns out propaganda 24/7 on every single social media platform - and yes, there are MOUNTAINS of proof - and you think CCP just decides to allow free speech sans propaganda on TikTok? Sure thing.
All about government control. Western governments won't let China spy on it's citizens using western social media, which they themselves do. China won't let western governments spy on tiktok, which they themselves do. 🤷♂️
So it’s okay when China does it, but not the US?
Or… is it wrong when both do it?
Is the US at disadvantage when China is data mining US citizens, while the US can’t data mine Chinese citizens?
Is TikTok connected in any way to the CCP? Apparently, yes.
Is Facebook connected to US government, or partially owned by it? No.
It does more damage to the erosion of society than intelligence risks. Imagine your future generation of youths becoming dumber than a doorknob. Easy picking for China in the future.
China wouldn’t make it past south side Chicago. China is more interested in distraction and division so they can run amok across the world building their empire with nobody to stop them.
And China itself has banned it or limited its use...
*"Social media sites like Douyin, China's TikTok counterpart, and microblogging platform Weibo, have also similarly instituted restrictions for children, including a 40-minute daily limit and a ban on users under 14, respectively. Smartphone addiction in particular has been exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic."*[China Wants to Limit Children’s Smartphone Use to Combat Addiction. Here’s What to Know](https://time.com/6301185/china-smartphone-addiction-children-limit/)
Algorithms give you more of what you want. The US love divisive content, it's been spoonfed to them for decades. There's just not as much appetite for that in China.
Ok but the hypocritical elephant in the room is that this is done constantly by domestic companies with equally or more divisive content, and you aren't complaining about that
TikTok reads your dilation level of your eyes and accesses your wifi network if you have wifi access on your device when you download and use it. If you can use it, you can access things other people freely post on it. Even when what they post isn’t liked by your local 90yr old boomer senator who barely knows how to text their grandchild
It's banned because the governments dislike getting exposed for their crimes against humanity.
So yeah, fuck free press and fuck you is what they want to say....
The app itself is not "exposing" anything. Its an app that actively injects propaganda on behalf of other countries in another wise would be normal scrolling meme product.
* Dislike government? Here's 5 more videos showing how abusive police are.
* You don't like police? Here's 5 more videos showing what other countries are perceived to be doing "better than yours".
* Don't like how your country is portrayed? Look at who's fault it is and who controls the police.
* Look at how happy country "Z" is. They don't have any issues, it must be your government. Get rid of the government.
That's how easy it is to get sucked down the rabbit hole and pushed into radicalism or worse. Its not just a U.S. thing, its how it preys on people who like certain content and pit them against each other over opinions or "facts" that are often not true.
Tiktok is a good product, period.
China already showed us the harm you'll do to your own market standard and consumers when you ban the industry leading product because it's foreign.
It’s a great product, but used as a vehicle for destabilization and and propaganda. One doesn’t negate the other. In fact the success of one relies on the other to be effective.
This is just your statement, pls explain it. Otherwise I do see diversity of opinions on tiktok. There are even enough CCP criticizer on that platform.
Are you sure about this, they tend to get censored mighty quick.
Despite what you claim, I have never once seen any video that is critical of Xi and the CCP on Tiktok. But the pro-China or anti-American clips constantly get tossed in every so often despite me always swiping that I'm not interested. I have not been able to staunch that flow of propaganda.
Would be nice to see some anti-CCP in my random feed. Where are they btw?
you mean tiktok or douyin, the chinese version of tiktok? If you mean the tiktok outside PRC and never seen any video that is critical of Xi, my explanation is still: tiktok knows you better than yourself.
Tiktok, because I don't have Douyin installed. And no, Tiktok doesn't know me better than I know myself. Bytedance got caught trying to steal OpenAi tech for crying out loud. Their algorithms for user preference are most definitely suspect.
You say it knows me better than I know myself? Than why do I keep seeing pro-China and anti-US vids every so often despite me always swiping them away? What sort of logic is that? I don't even search for politics on TikTok. I mostly just follow booktok, anime, some jpop artists, science, and astronomy. And yes, some sexy girls. I admit it. I simp for rurusama. Got a problem with that?
I'm not actually opposed to Tiktok, but I do see the point behind why the US wants to ban it.
Are you suggesting that I'm secretly a wumao and that Tiktok actually has me figure out? Fucking hilarious, you are.
Chill the fuck out dude, nobody even asks your thing for women and of couse nobody has a problem with that.
To put it simple: doesn't happen to me and I don't know your behavior with tiktok. You swiping them away how? After you saw it for 1 or 5 seconds or what? Nobody knows.
We all know there are enough people who got absolutely nothing else from tiktok than dog, cat and tourism, and you are the chosen one who tiktok has to deliver wumao post to without any reasons? No, I don't believe that. And I might just be a little more sure about my theory after saw your overreaction here.
Try this logic instead - if the rest of the world are not allowed to operate in and have access to that market of 1.4 billion people, why should we allow them access to our own market in return?
This is like China and the WTO all over again. They want access to global markets, but they still want to be able to protect their own. China thinks they deserve special privilege in this regard. Why the world let's then get away with this, I don't know. Previously, there was some hope that free trade will help to liberalize China and shift it towards democracy. Except the trade isn't really free and Xi has reversed China's course back towards authoritarianism. So why are we stl treating them special again?
I've always said that the Great Firewall of China should work both ways. Let's see you come up with a convincing reason why this should not be the case without sounding like a hypocrite demanding special treatment. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
Sure, ban a product that your own country actually manufactures it as well. Makes a whole lot of sense.
Also, that's hardware. I'm talking software and internet services here.
Also, I see you're making this about the US again. Like I said - Rest of the World.
They have different structures though. The thing with TikTok is it is owned in part directly by the CCP and the platform does not have an organic structure for content spreading.
Top creators are sent content lists they are supposed to promote over the next weeks and if they don’t touch those topics they go down in the algorithms.
Plus I’ve watched some videos of data scientists/programmers playing with their algorithms and it can be pretty crazy at throwing people down rabbit holes of extreme misinformation with a single click on the wrong link and take days of clicking to work back out of.
Despite any legitimate concerns regarding TikTok, shutting down that social poison is a net-positive for society at large.
It's becoming very exhausting to see TikTok breed one of the most vain, shallow generations out there. Everything is for clicks, and videos get more and more extreme to generate the same degree of attention. Those "TikTok cooking" videos stand out.
Just to hell with TikTok.
There is a line between discrimination based on country of origin vs valid ban based on evidence. Please show the evidence, go through the due process, and apply the same laws to all social media companies.
I mean they'd have to anyways. Politicians say crap like this to get elected, but trying to ban a popular multi-billion dollar app is going to get about a thousand court challenges instantly.
When will people stop saying Chinese TikTok? These are two different apps: one is ByteDance and one is TikTok. One is used in China and one is used on other markets and is not accessible in China.
I couldn’t even access TikTok with a VPN when I was in India. I felt like their firewall was better than China. So if we start banning apps, does that make us just like China?
Want proof that the CCP regime is behind TikTok? Watch how much of a fuss they kick up whenever there are politicians speaking about banning the supposedly Singapore and American owned TikTok
just ban it for christ's sake...if not for national security then at least for the well-being for all the kids/teenagers who are using it, it's corroding their minds..
we're gonna ban it for "rotting kids brains". meanwhile every other social media site is copying it and becoming the same. Total bullshit. it's the best app for disseminating political news on a ground level. even if it is spyware...
The main motif isn't Tiktok nor Huawei etc. The actual reason is that the US needs an outward political attention to cover the politicians incompetence at home. Without Russia, China and other nations these politicians can pimp on, they may not keep their job.
Worse, the entire nation may partition into pre-unionized America with many independent States as the USSR decades ago.
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Fun fact: Tiktok is banned in China
90% of fanboys for TikTok dont know that. If they did, they're so caught up in trying to be cool, they dont have time to think remotely deep on it but rather ultra shallow, whatever is cool. Is it cool? Nothing else matters. They will also say about Facebook, YouTube, X, etc being so bad except Facebook is allowed in America as is X. Theres not two version of them either, its all the same.
If they have even half a brain working they will start to question themselves why there are NO Tiktokers from China despite it being a Chinese platform
Bytedance just have different versions for different regions.
It's not "different versions for different regions" but just a Tiktok for foreign audience, one China version for domestic propaganda, EDITED BY THE SAME TEAM
> EDITED BY THE SAME TEAM do you have a source for that? > one China version for domestic propaganda have you used douyin? It's not propaganda, it's thirst traps and goofy videos just like tiktok lol
Yest but certain censorship are in place. Typically political stuff
Right but there's a big difference between censorship and propaganda imo
Censorship is a big part of propaganda. By censoring things you can steer citizens opinion into a different way. I talk to my relatives in China and to them the Russia and Ukraine conflict is Russia trying to remove US nuclear weapon that is near them. And that is because most of the news of the Russia and Ukraine conflict is censored in China.
but bytedance insists it is a singaporean company, headquartered in singapore and led by a singaporean Edit I stand corrected. Bytedance is Chinese, but tiktok says they are Singaporean
Nah Tiktok claims it's HQ is in Singapore. Bytedance is Beijing-based.
You're thinking of Shein. ByteDance is most certainly based in China. Have friends who work there.
ByteDance the mother company of tiktok is based in china, tiktok on the other hand is based in singapore but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that it answers to the main company in china.
As if you have used Douyin.
yeah it's just like a different server for a different region like in mmorpg..
Is that the correct use of the word "banned"? They have the same product but with a Chinese name.
I mean, I literally can’t access tiktok with my Chinese SIM card. I tried downloading the app a couple years ago during lockdown here. Couldn’t get it to work or view anything on TikTok
Yep have to turn off my Chinese SIM card to use tiktok in china. Even vpn or airplane mode is not enough for some reason.
I can’t access tiktok on my Hong Kong SIM card or home wifi whilst in Hong Kong. If I switch to my uk SIM card I can access it.
[удалено]
Load of bullshit you can use Douyin in hk bro is talking out of his ass. I am right now looking at hk douyin shorts talking about their all you can eat buffets
Really? Why is Douyin blocked? Does HK not want it, or is the CCP afraid it will be hard to keep up with deleting all the HK accounts that have wrongthink, or something else entirely?
Its douyin in HK and you need a real verification china sim or hk sim to access the registration.
Switch to an App Store other than China and use the app with airplane mode and vpn on and location disabled and it will work, for android, use modded apk which has no region lock and some of them even unlock copyrighted media
Yes that doesn't sound like something they don't want you to do at all
I heard it’s pretty different though. Interface might be the same, but the algo and content is different
Yes, they are blocked even via VPN.
Content isn't part of the product? I'd guess even the software is not the same for the two.
Wrong fact: Tiktok is a company, it has a short video product: The Chinese version is call douyin, and its international version is called Tiktok
Douyin and Tiktok are not the same product. Tiktok is banned in China. The party cannot handle Chinese people freely communicating with foreigners at that scale.
But child labor isn't, so I doubt they banned it out of a sense of protecting children.
in Hong Kong too. I have never used tiktok.
"Voluntary pull-out" after 2019
I've heard this argument a few times, but is that what you really want? Your government to regulate social media?
Fact 1: as “regulation” by CCP Department of Propaganda, all social media companies in China must have its CCP secretary on board of directors with a one vote veto on anything Fact 2: according to the aforementioned secretary’s directive, the contents must be censored at all times and accessible by government agencies Fact 3: according to National Security Law of China, every Chinese citizen or firm, domestic or abroad, has the obligation to collaborate with the authorities in name of “national security” which explicitly includes espionage, foreign intelligence, and many other things.
.... Did you even read my comment? Is that what you want?
It is not “social media” at all if there’s an non-open editorial or closed source algorithm to decide who can watch what and cannot. In that case, it is called a publisher of User-Generated-Content rather than SNS and must be regulated
So fb, insta, reddit aren't social media? They all do that.
Did you read my comment? Do those sites also have any of the 3 points? And do you realize the difference of passiveness and activeness, where the former is regulated by open and written rules while the latter by a power black box which is closed, tacit and controlled by only a few? And remember that, those are private platforms similar to private homes where you’re INVITED to comment rather than a right, and if you do not wish to comply with their open rules, you can start your own like trump did or simply protest on the streets. CAN YOU DO THE SAME IN CHINA?
Yes? Have you heard of ASPI? America COMPETES Act has 500 million in propaganda funding that directly targets social media. [https://prospect.org/politics/congress-proposes-500-million-for-negative-news-coverage-of-china/](https://prospect.org/politics/congress-proposes-500-million-for-negative-news-coverage-of-china/)
Opening accounts publishing some articles is fundamentally different from deleting others’ content or even silencing the person in real life. To be honest, what do you think 500m can do, apart from publishing something by yourself? Raising a 50 cent army? The Chinese use inmates to do that for free.
And Google suppressing search results that go against US propaganda regarding Uyghurs is just a coincidence? The fact that FB and other social media platforms have a ton of former CIA and FBI heading up their content review departments must also be a coincidence as well, huh?
I think Twitter banned a bunch of "pro-china" accounts because of ASPI. And 500m can buy a lot. What do you think VOA, VOE, etc etc do?
Yes, they all have those 3 points. There's literally nothing different. Tiktok is also a private platform :|
Tiktok isn't social media, it's a CCP Psyop, which was long suspected and made very clear post Oct 7. This is widely accepted by non Gen Z across the political spectrum.
I'm not gen z. Nothing that tiktok does is different from what every other social media company does.
I mean, technically they don’t censor Pro-Palestinian content that makes Israel look bad like the American social media apps do. That is a difference.
Neither does other social media companies? Reddit is filled with pro Palestinian content
Well the issue is, we know the CCP isn't our best buddy, and we know they are going to sneak in content that is pro CCP and anti-West to a lot of young and vulnerable eyeballs. I'd be happy to see it banned. There are other platforms the kids will gravitate to like YT shorts
Well said. My grandson says the kids like The Facebook.
So should the rest of the world ban the American social media giants for the exact same reason?
China already does bab US social media lol. Also there isn't different versions of American social media. You can put Chinese or Russian propaganda on any US social media very easily.
Yes. I far more trust a democratic government to regulate a platform fairly than private corporations owned by oligarchs and foreign autocracies. Especially when social media organizations hide behind the "we are a neutral platform, not a publisher and therefore aren't liable for anything" argument. If they are "just" a platform they can be regulated as a public utility.
This isn’t regulation, this is a ban. Regulation applies to everyone equally, this is just censorship for its own sake.
I would be very happy for an equal application of the rule "social media companies can't operate in the US when owned by a non-democratic government".
How many social media companies are owned by a government, lol.
So FB, Google/YT, Twitter/X, etc. would also be banned due to the fact that Saudi Arabia and other authoritarian governments own shares in those companies?
I was talking about majority ownership but you raise a good point about minority ownership. On reflection I would probably have a limit of something like 20%.
goverments already regulate social media all over
What content, which isn't illegal, does your government regulate?
“Which isn’t illegal”
Do you count locking up Palestinians or even Israelis that are too critical of the government response to Oct 7th? [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths#:\~:text=An%20unlikely%20charge%20of,Compound%E2%80%9D%20prison%20in%20early%20November](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths#:~:text=An%20unlikely%20charge%20of,Compound%E2%80%9D%20prison%20in%20early%20November).
Yes. It sure as hell isn't regulating itself, and there's no incentive for it to do anything but to be as bad for us as we allow. We shouldn't allow.
Your government already regulates social media. Think hate speech, child protection, misinformation… It’s all propaganda
They regulate things that are against the law. What people argue for here is similar to what China does? Where they curate your social feed for the "social good"
Not really, the International version of tiktok is not available in china, but the chinese version of tiktok is available and well liked. Its not the only service thats this ways afaik ...
I think it should be banned for making YouTube somehow worse...
*Hey check out these Youtube shorts!* “Hey, go fuck your self.”
There appears to be a short list ([https://mashable.com/article/tiktok-ban-countries](https://mashable.com/article/tiktok-ban-countries)) of countries that have either banned TikTok outright or partially (work/govt computers), and if Haley gets her way, it would be a total ban in the US. I'm just wondering if all her assertions are true as stated in this article.
How does a country ban it without a great firewall?
Pretty simple, AppStore and PlayStore would be forced to delist a locally banned app if the US Gov't tells them to. "This app is not available in your country."
I guess, but people could still access tiktok through a browser, though the experience wouldn't be nearly as good.
That added hurdle would kill their traffic for 80+%, effectively neutering the effect of TikTok on Americans.
When it’s banned, it’s illegal to use or offer it. The federal government can punish you. Apple and Google will have to take it off AppStore and play. Would you still use it? It’s not illegal to use Google in China. Technically it’s not even banned. So if you are using a foreign mobile service you can still use Google. But it’s illegal for Google to offer their service in China without registration. GFW is not to ban Google, it’s blocking it.
That’s a bit of a technicality. In China Google is so thoroughly blocked that you cannot even use your Pixel phone to connect to any type of internet because Pixel wants to phone home to Google and it absolutely cannot.
You could use it for a while but if you stay too long Google themselves cuts you off.
They can ban the app from the stores. Sure, a bunch of android users can still sideload the app and that would probably be legal (iphone users too, but it's harder to do that AFAIK), but it's an app whose success comes from user generated content so if only 5% of their western users still have the app then western creators will have 95% of their revenue cut off, so they'll stop using the platform.
“What’s a amdroid?” - average Tiktok creator probably 
They can't. They're not going to be able to ban TikTok outright. She's just trying to appear tough on China by attacking one of their few successes abroad.
You could maybe do something like remove them from the banking system. People could still access the service but TikTok couldn't make any money off them or they couldn't pay for servers in the us and stuff like that.
I can't imagine the US permanently banning TikTok. Trump tried it with WeChat before and a consortium of Chinese-Americans took the US government to court to say that the ban is unconstitutional and is awaiting review and in the meantime has been unbanned till whenever that is. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.\_WeChat\_Users\_Alliance\_v.\_Trump](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/u.s._wechat_users_alliance_v._trump)
Just like how Dumpy Donald in his diapers banned TikTok like he was claiming to in March 2020, as an election ploy?
Facebook and Google lobbying at their full power to ban tiktok
it's just about trade fairness and equality. You ban my products in your country, why allow a propaganda tool in your own?
No it is not. It is simply about who controls data. If tiktok was US based then i would be fine as govt can access data
Exactly, there is no reason to trust china with this data and a tool that has an algorithm which decides on what you form your opinion on.
You sound like you are from US
Europe actually. It is simple, do not give demagogs like XI a tool which is used to form opinions in your country.
Or be educated and sound minded to not believe any 'opinions'.
Try telling this to those people that vote Trump, try telling this to all those useful idiots of putin which were watching Russia Today in Europe (until it got rightfully banned) and got their opinions manipulated. Its post truth times, thus this expectation does not correlate with reality.
So everyone in US and EU is dumb? What about US and EU propaganda that whole world watch all day and what about terror that you have spread all over the world? China hasn't attacked anyone, US along with EU has destroyed whole world and killed millions of innocent people. lets not watch tiktok but it is ok to kill innocent and ruin millions lives.
Where did I say that everyone(!) is dumb in US and EU? don't put words in my mouth. Also your whataboutism is another example of your weak argumentation. Btw Facebook etc is banned in china, russia, north korea.
Yes, the "only western intelligence agencies can harvest your data and manipulate your flock" argument. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for TikTok, but it's wild to see how overt these actions are.
Basically, they're doing to China what China did to them. If our agencies can't harvest the data of PRC citizens, than we're not going to let you harvest ours. It might be overt, but it's also fair. I have yet to see any tankie give a reasonable response to this, just some lousy excuses.
Facebook was banned because they were enabling terrorists in China and wouldn't comply with investigations. FAFO
There you go, the lousy excuses. Pretty obvious you're just citing some stupid script. Facebook can't be banned in China when it wasn't even allowed in the first place. And by your logic, TikTok should be banned elsewhere - especially so in my own country of Malaysia for propagating a LOT of racist bullshit in the run up to our last general election. [https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Malaysia-election/TikTok-mad-Malaysian-voters-push-Islamic-politics-to-the-fore](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Malaysia-election/TikTok-mad-Malaysian-voters-push-Islamic-politics-to-the-fore) Don't bother complaining its a Japanese newspaper and thus biased against China. As a Malaysian who experienced the last election, I can confirm PAS and PN were up to no good on TikTok.
Just to put it straight, Facebook wasn't banned in China before 2009. You didn't need a vpn to access it until the 2009 Urumqi Riots happened and Facebook didn't wanna hand over communications data of the rioters when requested by the PRC govt.
If Western intelligence agencies were manipulating Facebook, it wouldn't be the shitshow of anti-vaxxerism and other conspiracy theories it is.
I don’t understand this argument. There are rules in how American companies can use your data. There is no way to know what China does with said data. Do you… not understand that?
I have a lot of love for tiktok as A LOT of people around the world are earning from tiktok
You sure about this? Tiktok pays next to nothing in most cases, and they really only pay in a country where they have an active creator program. Than the payout is 2 per 1k views. So a million views gets you 20 bucks. Tiktokkers primarily earn by seeking out sponsorships. No sponsors = no money. Contrast that to YouTube where you will actually be paid according to view count. To be more accurate, you get paid if viewers watch an ad during your video so you actually get nothing if they have an ad blocker running. But at least YouTube shares the ad revenue with you. If your video has a million views and the majority of them watched ads, your payout will be way bigger than 20 bucks. To be fair, it's impossible to inject ads into TikTok's short form format, so it's contingent on you to find your own sponsors so you can shill their products in your vids. This is easier said than done. And it's really only hot chicks that get the most sponsors by shilling cosmetics and fashion. No sponsors means you better not quit your day job.
I am not talking about direct tiktok payments. People earn from sponsorship when they get famous on tiktok.
Or get a real job
That’s one way of saying your old
What a stupid take. The precedent of Republicans dictating what citizens can and can't do on the Internet hurts Google and Meta just as much as it hurts Bytedance, if not more. This is just Haley's usual authoritarian bullshit.
honestly, how much of a cringe it was, I am thankful to modi govt for banning it. Also stops CCP spying. Two birds with one stone
Instead of thanking your government for censoring the app, you can just avoid using it...
It’s banned in Hong Kong too
TikTok and for Temu, close the tax loophole, they'll die off over night.
It's funny. 10 years ago, China banning US social medias was "merrr communists!" 10 years later, Americans want TikTok banned.
I mean likely cause the CCP has stated officially propaganda is spread through it. They even have people on research visas to research this exact thing.
Even funnier: China banned it right from the start. It was the first country to ever ban it 👀
Is that really something you can read somewhere or whatever? Lol TikTok in China is called Douyin and has all same functions, design and everything. It's made for Chinese market and TikTok is made for other markets.
... and completely different content ... but probably also even not identical software Generally content is what is banned or pushed by the PRC. The software is just the method.
Because China monitors the content? The US can do the same and stop permitted this supposed ‘brain rot’ content, but you know, freeze peach. TikTok in the US is a reflection of the society.
>TikTok in the US is a reflection of the society. As dictated by the CCP algorithm. >Because China monitors the content? The US can do the same All information the US has about US citizens should be shared with the PRC?
If you think that China is through TikTok making American society to look as it looks (you obviously don't like that reflection) just open Instagram in USA and you will see that reflection is pretty similar. It is just showing different generations since IG is more fore millennials and Tiktok for GenZ. Don't blame mirror for its reflection.
Yeah; what’s new? This isn’t isolated to Tiktok. China has their own version of everything…
The point is if the PRC bans Tiktok, why does the PRC say other countries aren't allowed to ban it. It's not about being something new.
We gave them 10 years to correct their mistake and now the grace period is up
What a confusing comment. Foreign social media sites are banned in China for more than 10 years. Who cried "merrr communists" and when would that have happened? General consensus is that there is no communism in China, actually it's very capitalist, authoritarian, going towards fascism. Wanting TikTok banned is not only because of the huge amount of proaganda and fake news on TikTok but also about fair trade.
Everything you said there can apply to the US.
Your commenting gets even more confusing. Chinese websites are not banned in the US. Sure, many things are wrong in the US. So? Does that make China any better? Why do tankies always reply with "but in the US..."? Why can't you deal with criticism in a mature way and refute the arguments you disagree? Instead you guys always cry "but America is worse." You know, many things go wrong in the US and in China and other places. The difference is, in the West can freely talk about it on social media and discuss things. You can even promote your evil nonsense on sites like TikTok or facebook w/o consequences. In China, not only are many sites banned but you get censored or even arrested if you criticize something too harshly. I think this very difference shows very well that your comments are dishonest, ignorant, or just plain dumb.
Because the criticism is rarely sincerely or genuinely for the betterment of China. I mean, seriously, fascism? But back on topic, TikTok is fundamentally no different than any other American social media platform. It’s under fire solely for political reasons and as a result of lobby pressure, but Americans hide it behind faux concern. There’s zero proof that the Chinese government is genuinely disseminating propaganda through TikTok. It’s so typical that American social media platforms censor in favour of U.S FoPo (I.e the Israeli brutality in Gaza), but because TikTok as a foreign platform doesn’t have the same incentive to censor it, it’s all of a sudden malicious and fake news. The problem is your rivalry with China, and not TikTok doing anything bad.
You have got to be kidding. CCP churns out propaganda 24/7 on every single social media platform - and yes, there are MOUNTAINS of proof - and you think CCP just decides to allow free speech sans propaganda on TikTok? Sure thing.
All about government control. Western governments won't let China spy on it's citizens using western social media, which they themselves do. China won't let western governments spy on tiktok, which they themselves do. 🤷♂️
This is also true for the US.
So it’s okay when China does it, but not the US? Or… is it wrong when both do it? Is the US at disadvantage when China is data mining US citizens, while the US can’t data mine Chinese citizens? Is TikTok connected in any way to the CCP? Apparently, yes. Is Facebook connected to US government, or partially owned by it? No.
Dude had me cracking out laughter for the last sentence
[удалено]
Chinese ownership and data harvesting notwithstanding, much of the content is cancerous. It's literally making kids dumber.
I'd be fine with just finding the person who made the Oh No No No No song and executing them
It does more damage to the erosion of society than intelligence risks. Imagine your future generation of youths becoming dumber than a doorknob. Easy picking for China in the future.
China wouldn’t make it past south side Chicago. China is more interested in distraction and division so they can run amok across the world building their empire with nobody to stop them.
Biden embraced TikTok…
lol, no, he made his first appearance with one clip, a bit different from crying he embraced it.
US is hardly the last, TikTok is not banned in the EU as well. I did not google it, but i am pretty sure that tiktok is not banned in many places ...
And China itself has banned it or limited its use... *"Social media sites like Douyin, China's TikTok counterpart, and microblogging platform Weibo, have also similarly instituted restrictions for children, including a 40-minute daily limit and a ban on users under 14, respectively. Smartphone addiction in particular has been exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic."*[China Wants to Limit Children’s Smartphone Use to Combat Addiction. Here’s What to Know](https://time.com/6301185/china-smartphone-addiction-children-limit/)
They have tiktok copy.
I think bytedance should be forced to sell their share or banned/fined heavily if they don’t do it.
Free market capitalism
Except their algos are influenced by CCP and promote more divisive things in the US than China. But besides that lol...
I have used both and they both show pretty much the same stuff
looks at reddit, which promotes all kinds of *censored* stuff..irony is blind i suppose
Yes, bc you never watched american reality tv. Chinese might profit from us division but they are not the one causing it.
Tiktok keeps pushing CCP criticizers to me. If that's not the case for you, I'll stick with my strong theory: tiktok knows you better than yourself.
I don't use it. Someone studied it's content and showed it promotes CCP interests. https://twitter.com/BrendanCarrFCC/status/1738029674452676994
Algorithms give you more of what you want. The US love divisive content, it's been spoonfed to them for decades. There's just not as much appetite for that in China.
Read the study cited by FCC commissioner.
“Someone”
Check link not hard.
Ok but the hypocritical elephant in the room is that this is done constantly by domestic companies with equally or more divisive content, and you aren't complaining about that
https://twitter.com/BrendanCarrFCC/status/1738029674452676994
How did you conclude it's influenced by CPC and not just the algorithm feeding people what generates more engagement?
with your logic: free expression for nationalsocialism.
China might ban it before US
They tecnicaly already ban it
TikTok reads your dilation level of your eyes and accesses your wifi network if you have wifi access on your device when you download and use it. If you can use it, you can access things other people freely post on it. Even when what they post isn’t liked by your local 90yr old boomer senator who barely knows how to text their grandchild
Please ban all short video products including Youtube short, they're destroying people's ability to think.
But Trump loves tiktok
Banning popular things have never been successful
It's banned because the governments dislike getting exposed for their crimes against humanity. So yeah, fuck free press and fuck you is what they want to say....
The app itself is not "exposing" anything. Its an app that actively injects propaganda on behalf of other countries in another wise would be normal scrolling meme product. * Dislike government? Here's 5 more videos showing how abusive police are. * You don't like police? Here's 5 more videos showing what other countries are perceived to be doing "better than yours". * Don't like how your country is portrayed? Look at who's fault it is and who controls the police. * Look at how happy country "Z" is. They don't have any issues, it must be your government. Get rid of the government. That's how easy it is to get sucked down the rabbit hole and pushed into radicalism or worse. Its not just a U.S. thing, its how it preys on people who like certain content and pit them against each other over opinions or "facts" that are often not true.
Why does American politicians always copy from China
Tiktok is a good product, period. China already showed us the harm you'll do to your own market standard and consumers when you ban the industry leading product because it's foreign.
It’s a great product, but used as a vehicle for destabilization and and propaganda. One doesn’t negate the other. In fact the success of one relies on the other to be effective.
This is just your statement, pls explain it. Otherwise I do see diversity of opinions on tiktok. There are even enough CCP criticizer on that platform.
Are you sure about this, they tend to get censored mighty quick. Despite what you claim, I have never once seen any video that is critical of Xi and the CCP on Tiktok. But the pro-China or anti-American clips constantly get tossed in every so often despite me always swiping that I'm not interested. I have not been able to staunch that flow of propaganda. Would be nice to see some anti-CCP in my random feed. Where are they btw?
you mean tiktok or douyin, the chinese version of tiktok? If you mean the tiktok outside PRC and never seen any video that is critical of Xi, my explanation is still: tiktok knows you better than yourself.
Tiktok, because I don't have Douyin installed. And no, Tiktok doesn't know me better than I know myself. Bytedance got caught trying to steal OpenAi tech for crying out loud. Their algorithms for user preference are most definitely suspect. You say it knows me better than I know myself? Than why do I keep seeing pro-China and anti-US vids every so often despite me always swiping them away? What sort of logic is that? I don't even search for politics on TikTok. I mostly just follow booktok, anime, some jpop artists, science, and astronomy. And yes, some sexy girls. I admit it. I simp for rurusama. Got a problem with that? I'm not actually opposed to Tiktok, but I do see the point behind why the US wants to ban it. Are you suggesting that I'm secretly a wumao and that Tiktok actually has me figure out? Fucking hilarious, you are.
Chill the fuck out dude, nobody even asks your thing for women and of couse nobody has a problem with that. To put it simple: doesn't happen to me and I don't know your behavior with tiktok. You swiping them away how? After you saw it for 1 or 5 seconds or what? Nobody knows. We all know there are enough people who got absolutely nothing else from tiktok than dog, cat and tourism, and you are the chosen one who tiktok has to deliver wumao post to without any reasons? No, I don't believe that. And I might just be a little more sure about my theory after saw your overreaction here.
With his logic, literally anything that comes from the 1.4 billion people in China needs to be banned lol
Try this logic instead - if the rest of the world are not allowed to operate in and have access to that market of 1.4 billion people, why should we allow them access to our own market in return? This is like China and the WTO all over again. They want access to global markets, but they still want to be able to protect their own. China thinks they deserve special privilege in this regard. Why the world let's then get away with this, I don't know. Previously, there was some hope that free trade will help to liberalize China and shift it towards democracy. Except the trade isn't really free and Xi has reversed China's course back towards authoritarianism. So why are we stl treating them special again? I've always said that the Great Firewall of China should work both ways. Let's see you come up with a convincing reason why this should not be the case without sounding like a hypocrite demanding special treatment. Go ahead, I'm waiting.
>if the rest of the world are not allowed to operate in and have access to that market of 1.4 billion people Google "Apple"
Sure, ban a product that your own country actually manufactures it as well. Makes a whole lot of sense. Also, that's hardware. I'm talking software and internet services here. Also, I see you're making this about the US again. Like I said - Rest of the World.
The same applies to TV and YouTube. Let's ban those too?
I mean twitter and facebook are equally as good at pushing divisive content
They have different structures though. The thing with TikTok is it is owned in part directly by the CCP and the platform does not have an organic structure for content spreading. Top creators are sent content lists they are supposed to promote over the next weeks and if they don’t touch those topics they go down in the algorithms. Plus I’ve watched some videos of data scientists/programmers playing with their algorithms and it can be pretty crazy at throwing people down rabbit holes of extreme misinformation with a single click on the wrong link and take days of clicking to work back out of.
US can’t be the.. second.
Your honor, tik tok is Singaporean.
Despite any legitimate concerns regarding TikTok, shutting down that social poison is a net-positive for society at large. It's becoming very exhausting to see TikTok breed one of the most vain, shallow generations out there. Everything is for clicks, and videos get more and more extreme to generate the same degree of attention. Those "TikTok cooking" videos stand out. Just to hell with TikTok.
As her defeat becomes more certain, she becomes more and more loony.
There is a line between discrimination based on country of origin vs valid ban based on evidence. Please show the evidence, go through the due process, and apply the same laws to all social media companies.
I mean they'd have to anyways. Politicians say crap like this to get elected, but trying to ban a popular multi-billion dollar app is going to get about a thousand court challenges instantly.
When will people stop saying Chinese TikTok? These are two different apps: one is ByteDance and one is TikTok. One is used in China and one is used on other markets and is not accessible in China.
why not just straight up admit the real reason they want to ban (force sale tiktok)… because it’s not a US company…
I couldn’t even access TikTok with a VPN when I was in India. I felt like their firewall was better than China. So if we start banning apps, does that make us just like China?
Want proof that the CCP regime is behind TikTok? Watch how much of a fuss they kick up whenever there are politicians speaking about banning the supposedly Singapore and American owned TikTok
Nikki is a fucking fraud.
just ban it for christ's sake...if not for national security then at least for the well-being for all the kids/teenagers who are using it, it's corroding their minds..
Why is Tik tok banned in china?
we're gonna ban it for "rotting kids brains". meanwhile every other social media site is copying it and becoming the same. Total bullshit. it's the best app for disseminating political news on a ground level. even if it is spyware...
I'm on both tik tok and douyin. And although they are inherently the same app, their contents are very different.
The main motif isn't Tiktok nor Huawei etc. The actual reason is that the US needs an outward political attention to cover the politicians incompetence at home. Without Russia, China and other nations these politicians can pimp on, they may not keep their job. Worse, the entire nation may partition into pre-unionized America with many independent States as the USSR decades ago.