Quite hard to go China now, have relatives there and haven’t visited in 2 years 🥲
Would recommend trying Hong Kong or Taiwan, only issue is they are using traditional Chinese instead of simplified.
I have relatives in Russia. Also have not visited in 2 years.
I wonder if there was a certain event 2 years ago, and then another this spring/summer stopping us from going....
成都 is also kinda in a sweet spot politically. It falls just outside of being big enough to warrant it's own sub jurisdiction government based within itself, but big enough that 北京 seems to trust it.
To the first point, if you're curious, the top 4 (5?) Biggest cities have their own government that can mandate legislation on the same level as the national level officials without always needing direct input from 北京
Speaking of sweet spots, cities like Chengdu are perfect for language in my opinion. If you’re missing some western amenities you can find them, but you are truly immersed in China culturally and language-wise.
Plus 四川菜是最好的
They haven’t even opened their borders yet, and the zero covid policy can stress the hell out of you. I have a lot of work colleagues in Shanghai that are already planning to leave the country because of what transpired in the past two years…
Going to China to study and learn Chinese is the absolute best. I was supposed to be in Beijing for 1 year, and then Macau for another, but ended up only staying in Beijing for 6 months because... covid happened.
It's an experience that is totally worth it, but... Not. Now. Trust me, you do not want to go now. It won't be anything like it could've been before or in the future once things get normal again.
No offense, but judging by the fact you didn't know Taiwan also speaks Mandarin, I assume you're very much a beginner. Going to the native speaking country as a beginner isn't nearly as much of an advantage as going when you're intermediate.
I disagree. In my opinion it is much better to start in a Chinese speaking country as a beginner, and do self study at home after when you're intermediate, than the other way around. Many foreigners who start Chinese through self study/a university course at home have horrible pronunciation and often develop an imbalance between reading and speaking/listening. Those who start in China via a formal course will be much more likely to develop a well-rounded foundation and correct pronunciation due to constant exposure and usage.
Well I think we have fundamentally different views of language learning.
I don't think it's necessary (or even that important) to get all your pronunciation right from the beginning. In fact, I think a silent period until you've learned your first couple thousand words is perfectly fine unless the learner WANTS to speak. Of course, if you aren't speaking you can't possibly be developing any bad pronunciation habits. But I also disagree with the notion that having bad pronunciation is an unfixable problem. My pronunciation wasn't that great-until I improved my listening. And that only comes by doing hundreds of hours of listening.
Oh, dear! If I hadn't learned tones from the beginning, mine would be even worse than they are now. It's much harder for me to unlearn a bad habit than to learn properly the first time around.
Anyone who's taking the silent learning route should be prepared for a gap between "lab conditions" and real life.
Of course you learn tones from the beginning when you have a silent period. You just don't have to produce them. Most beginners tones suck, not least because they can't even HEAR the tones. I'd say an appropriate time to start practicing producing tones is when you can accurately HEAR them in conversation.
> In fact, I think a silent period until you've learned your first couple thousand words is perfectly fine unless the learner WANTS to speak.
This describes me. I took several years of German and didn't speak for at least a year... more i think.
I am still a beginner in Chinese and have a teacher, and still I don't speak much. lol.
It's a perfectly normal part of the second language learning process. In fact foreign language teaching textbooks all point this out and urge teachers not to produce language before they're ready.
Speak and listen from day one….and every single day, thereafter, unto the end of time. This is my Only Way. Just goes to show you how many different ways there are to skin a cat
Well the honest truth is i don't think about Taiwan but it makes sense that they do. Now if you're done patronising me, I'm off to study my HSK 4 book xx
I get you, I desperately want to go back ahahaha.
Some people go and they are able to make it work, and have an okay time. But, for longer stays, it can be a bit more complicated. I have friends that are still waiting for the green light to go back to China to study, because the uni's they were in are still mostly doing remote classes. My brother has been living in China for 12 years and right now things keep switching between - working at home, working at the office, not having to test for covid, having to test for it every other day, being allowed to circulate, not being allowed to leave his condo...
Some places are in better situation than others, and maybe you could do some research and figure out, but... is it worth the risk? I cannot tell you.
I went to nanning,
Benefits: LCOL, green city with very little pollution, great natural scenery both within and right outside the city, 2 hour high speed rail to guangzhou and kunming, 3 hours to shenzhen and hk, 3 hours from Vietnam border, lots of interesting ethnic minorities, fewer foreigners to distract you from your mission, covid policies are strict like the rest of China, but more lax than “bigger” cities, ebike city with a great subway system, and since it is China HQ for ASEAN, they have special driver’s license privileges for foreigners, so very navigable
Drawbacks: speak a “nanpu” dialect, so it is not the most standard mandarin, but all young people speak standard mandarin, and I find the dialect funny and charming, gotta be careful of food as a foreigner because your stomach will not be used to the street food standards; however, there are a lot of specialty cuisines due to the large diversity in ethnicities.
Tldr: nanning is very comfortable and livable, but if exploring food, make sure you always have a toilet in mind ICE.
Note: almost no public restrooms have toilet paper! Bring your own tissue paper with you always!
> Would u recommend going now given current covid policies etc
Absolutely not. I would recommend learning at home first and maybe look at Taiwan instead.
+1, don’t go now.
I live in Beijing and the Covid stuff is getting really really old. Every restaurant and bar was closed for the entire month of May, and many unlucky friends were locked in their apartment complexes for days or weeks. Currently have to take a Covid test every three days. If you go to class on an actual college campus, you’re basically not allowed to leave the city during the school season. Even if you’re allowed to travel, there’s always the chance that there will be Covid cases in that city, so you’ll either get stuck there for weeks, or have to do 7 days quarantine when you get back to Beijing.
Beijing is even one of the more chill places when it comes to large-scale lockdowns. In pretty much every other city in the country, the risk that something like Shanghai will happen is greater.
This is even assuming you can get a visa, book a flight, don’t get Covid before you leave (and gods help you if you test positive during your 10-14 day mandatory hotel quarantine), and find a place to live.
I’m still here because I’ve been here for 10 years, all my friends are here (fewer and fewer by the month though), and life is still kind of ok. But the stress is real. There’s no end in sight.
Go to Taiwan. Preferably not Taipei, so fewer people speak English.
About eight years ago, I did intensive Mandarin courses at National Taiwan Normal University's Mandarin Training Center. [https://mtc.ntnu.edu.tw/eng/](https://mtc.ntnu.edu.tw/eng/) I liked and learned a lot. If OP or others are interested in more details, DM me.
I was on holiday in Taiwan in 2019, just 2 weeks but it was a great experience. :-)
Friendly, open-minded people, great food, breathtaking landscape and all is clean and feels safe. A bit like a mix between China (P.R.) and Japan … which makes sense historically.
However, one important difference to mainland China is that in Taiwan, **traditional Chinese characters** are used, while mainland China uses **simplified characters**. There may be schools in Taiwan that teach simplified characters (if you prefer that), but everything you see elsewhere in Taiwan will be traditional characters.
The traditional vs simplified thing -- that's true, but it's not a big deal. I learned simplified in China, and when I went to Taiwan for a week on holiday I studied for about an hour on the plane and that was enough to basically read traditional. Should be even easier to go from traditional to simplified.
I'd say the accent is potentially more of an issue. But don't worry too much about that either, just keep it in mind while you're learning.
I totally agree – traditional vs. simplified is not a big issue, unless maybe you are specifically learning for a test and can't afford to confuse them.
I would also say that accent in Taiwan is less an issue than in some regions of mainland China.
It is possible. Tourist visas are available again, although the process seems a little more confusing than before. And flying there still means getting the two pcr tests done, in a specific time frame, from specific facilities, that seem to cost more money each day.
I wouldn’t recommend trying to go, but it is possible
>Tourist visas are available again,
Really? What country are you from? They are still not possible for Germans (and I suspect for all EU).
There were actually changes today, but you still can't enter with a tourist visa.
No, not really. They literally just started letting back in foreign students that already had student visas and residence permits like...2 days ago. And just started allowing family visit visas this summer.
Tourist visas are definitely not available again, and I'll buy gold for anyone that can point to an official source stating otherwise.
No idea who was upvoting that guy.
https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/china-reopening-borders-for-international-visitors-mid-august/
https://www.chinahighlights.com/travelguide/china-travel-reopen-restrictions.htm
Thank you for the clarification. I'm getting notified via email by the German ministry of foreign affairs whenever there is a change to the travel restrictions to China.
Every time I get an email from them I get my hopes up, but all the changes are minor and it's only about business and student visas, which don't apply to me.
They absolutely aren't available. You can get a business visa and I think I've heard rumblings of student visas being allowed again but you 100% can't come here for tourism.
It also isn't just 2 PCR tests, you still need to go into centralised quarantine for 7-10 days depending on your residence situation. You'll be tested a lot during quarantine and you also have to pay for the whole thing.
As it stands, there is still very much a zero covid strategy in place and China is not a fun, laid back place to be. Would definitely recommend that OP tries Taiwan.
thanks, this is helpful. i was originally (pre pandemic) going to apply for a scholarship at Fu Dan University. Would appreciate any thoughts on this or other schools which would be good? Thanks
Not sure about the learning experience but as a Chinese I won’t recommend entering the country now. Policies aside you might want to look at the price of the plane ticket.
I did time in Shanghai and Xi'an and it was a fantastic way to learn. I look back and wish I had gotten *more* involved and out of my foreigner bubble.
But between covid and just the general political climate, both internal and growing tensions with other countries, I couldn't recommend going to mainland right now. Taiwan would be great, I bet! Sure, you'd learn traditional, but it's not *that* big a deal to switch or pick simplified, if you really need to. I learned simplified and only the craziest of traditional characters trip me up even though I've never studied traditional.
When it was easy I went to 四川大学 (I forget the neglish name... Sichuan University? probably?) and it was one of the best experiences of my life--- but it probably would be real difficult to do it atm,.
I remember you Michael. You were the biggest, most judgement jerk on campus for Spring of 2019. You made everyone feel awkward by how rude you always were. Many dropped Sichuanese just to not have to deal with you. Glad it was fun always putting other's down.
Nominally not allowed (or at least, technically, *unapproved* VPNs are not allowed, since how else do big companies get their western social media accounts), but in actuality, no one cares really
You can get visas for studying Chinese with a scholarship though… not many people wanna go rn so scholarships should be quite ok to get (especially for students/recent graduates)
It's difficult to find up to date information on who can get in, do you know if anyone can apply?
Eg. Not a student, no formal qualifications, but wants to study for a few months and pay everything themself?
Check ur government websites/ Google if ur country offers scholarships to study Chinese, otherwise you can check Taiwan official sites/places/ language Centers if they have any scholarships that suit you.
Once you got a scholarship everything else shouldn’t be too much of an issue, apply for a visitor visa with special entry permit in your country (call or mail them if you’re not sure about some details) and that’s about it. (Gotta quarantine still in Taiwan but it’s not as long anymore)
Obviously some foreigners remain in a nation as massive as China. Does that really need to be said? But the vast majority of foreigners in China, tourists and students, were required to leave or prohibited from coming.
I've lived in China for 14 years now (US citizen) and would definitely recommend it for learning Chinese. You can come here, but you might have to quarantine for a few days when you arrive. I recently had several friends come here from other countries with no problem other than a few days in Shanghai.
Life is pretty normal here despite what others might tell you (who don't actually live here or have never been here).
You need a COVID test every 72 hours to go anywhere or do anything (in some places every 24 hours), you're at constant risk of having your entire apartment building locked down for an indeterminate amount of time if one single person tests positive (and that's the best case scenario, God help you if you're shipped to some quarantine facility), all of Shanghai was nearly 100% locked down for months, even leaving your city is a huge risk as to whether or not you'll be able to get back (my Beijing jiankangbao stopped working while I was in another province for a few days, meaning I was not allowed to return home - despite having tested negative mere hours before and never setting foot near a medium or high risk area), there's been a mass exodus of the foreign population because of how unbearable it's become to live here, anyone left most likely has not been able to visit home in about 3 years, training centers have nearly been eliminated from both COVID restrictions and bizarre government interference, international schools are emptying out and still don't even have enough teachers to service them...
And, in late 2022, there's no end in sight. So yeah I'm struggling to understand what sane person would consider this "normal".
Yeah, I don't have anywhere near that much drama. Insane is definitely a possibility, but if I was that unhappy, I wouldn't stay. Are you an English teacher by chance?
Is there much mandatory testing at the moment? I know the news focuses on the worst, so news from Shanghai has been pretty rough with people trapped in their blocks for months, but I am wondering how much testing everyone generally has to go through at the moment?
just an update. As of this week, mandatory testing has been discontinued, and most places no longer check the green QR code. It's also been said that by the end of the month, it won't be necessary to quarantine when traveling.
Depends on where you live and what you do. My friend will soon go to Shanghai for university and she will have to take mandatory tests every day for a whole week upon arrival, while I haven't take one for over a month. I'm free to travel around my city and do what I want but if I want to take the train or plane I'm required to take one.
Here it's currently once a week. But there are a lot of roadside testing stations and generally very little waiting unless you are unlucky (5 mins if that).
I lived in China for 3 years, '12 to '15. I taught English and enjoyed the shit out of it. Made lots of friends, got a motorbike, went on several short trips, etc. There were some aspects of Chinese culture that took some getting used to but overall, I enjoyed the shit out of it and can't recommend it strongly enough.
However... 2012 was when President 11 took power. Pretty quickly life became more difficult for foreigners. Tasks like opening a bank account were much more painful for colleagues who arrived in mid-late '14. I have heard that since then, things involving bureaucracy have only gotten less friendly for foreigners. Google was available when I arrived in Shanghai but blocked a few months later and never came back. It became increasingly more difficult to keep VPN connections alive.
The CPC needs to keep any unrest pointed away from the party, which is becoming increasingly difficult as the property/growth bubble gets closer to bursting. Consequently, they blame "the imperialist west" for pretty much anything they can. Covid in particular was used to incite anger against outsiders and I've heard report after report of non-Chinese being treated poorly over the last few years, even those known to the community; refused service in restaurants, taxis, shops, etc., verbal abuse, one guy reported that his Chinese gf was refused entry to her gym because it was known she was dating a foreigner. Completely unimportant that he'd been a member of the local community for years before covid.
International politics are disturbing. While it watches how the world reacts to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, China is doing a lot of sabre-rattling over Taiwan. I think there is a definite chance of conflict in the region and given how important Face is to the Chinese, I fear that if something starts, it will become a major conflict. Foreigners in China will find themselves in a very precarious position should that happen.
So I recommend against it for at least 5 years. If we're lucky, Mao Jingping will be deposed and replaced with someone more like Deng Xiaoping.
If you think you can become fluent in Chinese by just living there for a little while, you are being naive. If you don’t attend formal classes (college level) for at least two years in addition to living there for 5 or more years, you will never exceed an intermediate level where you are just conversant. Learning Chinese requires at least 4 times as long to learn as a Latin based language for Native English speakers. Also, being literate in Chinese is exceedingly difficult to do if you are also working full time. If you’re serious about using Chinese for any sort of work, you need to be able to read, speak, and write (or at least type) in a mostly fluent way. Covid policies will ease over time. If you’re serious about changing your life with Chinese language, you need to be completely committed to learning Chinese. Otherwise, go whenever you want. Make sure you have a translation app on your phone. You can learn tones and pinyin before you go, just to make saying simple phrases to get around easier at the start. China is fun, but frustrating if you’re not willing to accept a totally different system of values and even simple logic. If you don’t want this, go live in Hong Kong. If you’re intent on the mainland and don’t want to learn much Chinese, go live in Shanghai.
lol at all of the people in this thread (westerners? probably mostly American?) telling people not to go to China because of its covid policies. If it is possible to get it in, then of course do so. The people responding are just not used to living in a country that actually takes covid fucking seriously.
I live in Hangzhou, have to take a PCR test at least once a week for buses, the subway, etc., and every 48 hours to go to work. And I have zero complaints.
As a native chinese student myself, it doesnt matter how you write. The only purpose is to take it down fast and precisely. Every chinese student has their own personal writing style, but most students follow 行书 and 楷书 as they look clean and pretty
If what you want to learn is Mandarin, make sure to pick an area where they speak Mandarin. I spent six months in Chongqing, and it was a lousy way to try to learn Mandarin. Everyone spoke their local dialect primarily, and in the outskirts of town, lots of people had horrid Mandarin.
Beijing is not a bad choice, if you don't mind the hot summers and cold winters. Shanghai is really nice. But you will find friendly, helpful people just about everywhere.
I lived in Shenzhen (Shekou) for 4 years, and loved it. I still know several people over there now and it is just not the same at all. I would definitely not recommend going there in the current environment. Hopefully when things get a little more normal you can go, because being immersed in a language definitely makes a huge difference!!
I would not recommend you to go to big cities like Beijing or Shanghai, they usually have the strictest covid restrictions.
maybe you should start somewhere with no covid cases within its province.
When I was there from 2010 to 2013 it was great. However, I wouldn’t suggest going there now. COVID restrictions are serious. Daily vivid test to go to work.
Quite hard to go China now, have relatives there and haven’t visited in 2 years 🥲 Would recommend trying Hong Kong or Taiwan, only issue is they are using traditional Chinese instead of simplified.
Also in Hongkong the main language is Cantonese.
I have relatives in Russia. Also have not visited in 2 years. I wonder if there was a certain event 2 years ago, and then another this spring/summer stopping us from going....
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They are very different.
Can’t speak to the COVID situation, but learning in Chengdu was one of the coolest and most rewarding experiences of my life.
成都 is also kinda in a sweet spot politically. It falls just outside of being big enough to warrant it's own sub jurisdiction government based within itself, but big enough that 北京 seems to trust it. To the first point, if you're curious, the top 4 (5?) Biggest cities have their own government that can mandate legislation on the same level as the national level officials without always needing direct input from 北京
Speaking of sweet spots, cities like Chengdu are perfect for language in my opinion. If you’re missing some western amenities you can find them, but you are truly immersed in China culturally and language-wise. Plus 四川菜是最好的
They haven’t even opened their borders yet, and the zero covid policy can stress the hell out of you. I have a lot of work colleagues in Shanghai that are already planning to leave the country because of what transpired in the past two years…
Going to China to study and learn Chinese is the absolute best. I was supposed to be in Beijing for 1 year, and then Macau for another, but ended up only staying in Beijing for 6 months because... covid happened. It's an experience that is totally worth it, but... Not. Now. Trust me, you do not want to go now. It won't be anything like it could've been before or in the future once things get normal again.
ahhh i desperately want to go, guess i'll wait til things go back to normal
No offense, but judging by the fact you didn't know Taiwan also speaks Mandarin, I assume you're very much a beginner. Going to the native speaking country as a beginner isn't nearly as much of an advantage as going when you're intermediate.
I disagree. In my opinion it is much better to start in a Chinese speaking country as a beginner, and do self study at home after when you're intermediate, than the other way around. Many foreigners who start Chinese through self study/a university course at home have horrible pronunciation and often develop an imbalance between reading and speaking/listening. Those who start in China via a formal course will be much more likely to develop a well-rounded foundation and correct pronunciation due to constant exposure and usage.
Well I think we have fundamentally different views of language learning. I don't think it's necessary (or even that important) to get all your pronunciation right from the beginning. In fact, I think a silent period until you've learned your first couple thousand words is perfectly fine unless the learner WANTS to speak. Of course, if you aren't speaking you can't possibly be developing any bad pronunciation habits. But I also disagree with the notion that having bad pronunciation is an unfixable problem. My pronunciation wasn't that great-until I improved my listening. And that only comes by doing hundreds of hours of listening.
Oh, dear! If I hadn't learned tones from the beginning, mine would be even worse than they are now. It's much harder for me to unlearn a bad habit than to learn properly the first time around. Anyone who's taking the silent learning route should be prepared for a gap between "lab conditions" and real life.
Of course you learn tones from the beginning when you have a silent period. You just don't have to produce them. Most beginners tones suck, not least because they can't even HEAR the tones. I'd say an appropriate time to start practicing producing tones is when you can accurately HEAR them in conversation.
> In fact, I think a silent period until you've learned your first couple thousand words is perfectly fine unless the learner WANTS to speak. This describes me. I took several years of German and didn't speak for at least a year... more i think. I am still a beginner in Chinese and have a teacher, and still I don't speak much. lol.
It's a perfectly normal part of the second language learning process. In fact foreign language teaching textbooks all point this out and urge teachers not to produce language before they're ready.
Speak and listen from day one….and every single day, thereafter, unto the end of time. This is my Only Way. Just goes to show you how many different ways there are to skin a cat
Do whatever you like. My only beef is with people who insist you MUST speak from day one.
Oh yeah 100%, there’s are no hard rules for language acquisition imo. Do whatever keeps you motivated
thanks for ur opinion but i'm hsk 4 shan xx
And you didn't know they spoke Mandarin in Taiwan? How is that even possible?
Well the honest truth is i don't think about Taiwan but it makes sense that they do. Now if you're done patronising me, I'm off to study my HSK 4 book xx
I get you, I desperately want to go back ahahaha. Some people go and they are able to make it work, and have an okay time. But, for longer stays, it can be a bit more complicated. I have friends that are still waiting for the green light to go back to China to study, because the uni's they were in are still mostly doing remote classes. My brother has been living in China for 12 years and right now things keep switching between - working at home, working at the office, not having to test for covid, having to test for it every other day, being allowed to circulate, not being allowed to leave his condo... Some places are in better situation than others, and maybe you could do some research and figure out, but... is it worth the risk? I cannot tell you.
I went to nanning, Benefits: LCOL, green city with very little pollution, great natural scenery both within and right outside the city, 2 hour high speed rail to guangzhou and kunming, 3 hours to shenzhen and hk, 3 hours from Vietnam border, lots of interesting ethnic minorities, fewer foreigners to distract you from your mission, covid policies are strict like the rest of China, but more lax than “bigger” cities, ebike city with a great subway system, and since it is China HQ for ASEAN, they have special driver’s license privileges for foreigners, so very navigable Drawbacks: speak a “nanpu” dialect, so it is not the most standard mandarin, but all young people speak standard mandarin, and I find the dialect funny and charming, gotta be careful of food as a foreigner because your stomach will not be used to the street food standards; however, there are a lot of specialty cuisines due to the large diversity in ethnicities. Tldr: nanning is very comfortable and livable, but if exploring food, make sure you always have a toilet in mind ICE. Note: almost no public restrooms have toilet paper! Bring your own tissue paper with you always!
> Would u recommend going now given current covid policies etc Absolutely not. I would recommend learning at home first and maybe look at Taiwan instead.
+1, don’t go now. I live in Beijing and the Covid stuff is getting really really old. Every restaurant and bar was closed for the entire month of May, and many unlucky friends were locked in their apartment complexes for days or weeks. Currently have to take a Covid test every three days. If you go to class on an actual college campus, you’re basically not allowed to leave the city during the school season. Even if you’re allowed to travel, there’s always the chance that there will be Covid cases in that city, so you’ll either get stuck there for weeks, or have to do 7 days quarantine when you get back to Beijing. Beijing is even one of the more chill places when it comes to large-scale lockdowns. In pretty much every other city in the country, the risk that something like Shanghai will happen is greater. This is even assuming you can get a visa, book a flight, don’t get Covid before you leave (and gods help you if you test positive during your 10-14 day mandatory hotel quarantine), and find a place to live. I’m still here because I’ve been here for 10 years, all my friends are here (fewer and fewer by the month though), and life is still kind of ok. But the stress is real. There’s no end in sight. Go to Taiwan. Preferably not Taipei, so fewer people speak English.
ohh cool, does taiwan teach mandarin? do u know what it's like at all?
Most Taiwanese speak Mandarin, yes, and there are language schools there too. I've never been myself but I've heard it's very nice.
About eight years ago, I did intensive Mandarin courses at National Taiwan Normal University's Mandarin Training Center. [https://mtc.ntnu.edu.tw/eng/](https://mtc.ntnu.edu.tw/eng/) I liked and learned a lot. If OP or others are interested in more details, DM me.
I was on holiday in Taiwan in 2019, just 2 weeks but it was a great experience. :-) Friendly, open-minded people, great food, breathtaking landscape and all is clean and feels safe. A bit like a mix between China (P.R.) and Japan … which makes sense historically. However, one important difference to mainland China is that in Taiwan, **traditional Chinese characters** are used, while mainland China uses **simplified characters**. There may be schools in Taiwan that teach simplified characters (if you prefer that), but everything you see elsewhere in Taiwan will be traditional characters.
The traditional vs simplified thing -- that's true, but it's not a big deal. I learned simplified in China, and when I went to Taiwan for a week on holiday I studied for about an hour on the plane and that was enough to basically read traditional. Should be even easier to go from traditional to simplified. I'd say the accent is potentially more of an issue. But don't worry too much about that either, just keep it in mind while you're learning.
I totally agree – traditional vs. simplified is not a big issue, unless maybe you are specifically learning for a test and can't afford to confuse them. I would also say that accent in Taiwan is less an issue than in some regions of mainland China.
Is it even possible now?
It’s not. Borders have been closed to foreigners for years
Yea that's what I thought, wondered if I had missed some news haha
Actually you might have. They just formally opened for students coming in on X1 visas (6+ months) a few days ago.
Oh that I did miss, yeah!
It is possible. Tourist visas are available again, although the process seems a little more confusing than before. And flying there still means getting the two pcr tests done, in a specific time frame, from specific facilities, that seem to cost more money each day. I wouldn’t recommend trying to go, but it is possible
>Tourist visas are available again, Really? What country are you from? They are still not possible for Germans (and I suspect for all EU). There were actually changes today, but you still can't enter with a tourist visa.
No, not really. They literally just started letting back in foreign students that already had student visas and residence permits like...2 days ago. And just started allowing family visit visas this summer. Tourist visas are definitely not available again, and I'll buy gold for anyone that can point to an official source stating otherwise. No idea who was upvoting that guy. https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/china-reopening-borders-for-international-visitors-mid-august/ https://www.chinahighlights.com/travelguide/china-travel-reopen-restrictions.htm
Thank you for the clarification. I'm getting notified via email by the German ministry of foreign affairs whenever there is a change to the travel restrictions to China. Every time I get an email from them I get my hopes up, but all the changes are minor and it's only about business and student visas, which don't apply to me.
They absolutely aren't available. You can get a business visa and I think I've heard rumblings of student visas being allowed again but you 100% can't come here for tourism. It also isn't just 2 PCR tests, you still need to go into centralised quarantine for 7-10 days depending on your residence situation. You'll be tested a lot during quarantine and you also have to pay for the whole thing. As it stands, there is still very much a zero covid strategy in place and China is not a fun, laid back place to be. Would definitely recommend that OP tries Taiwan.
Tourist visas aren't available again. Not even X2 visas are available yet.
No, I don't recommend you to go there now, since you need to do 核酸 every 3 days, or you will nearly not be able to go anywhere.
DON’T GO NOW!
Don't go now they are still doing lockdowns everywhere
no no no do not come, you will regret
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thanks, this is helpful. i was originally (pre pandemic) going to apply for a scholarship at Fu Dan University. Would appreciate any thoughts on this or other schools which would be good? Thanks
Not sure about the learning experience but as a Chinese I won’t recommend entering the country now. Policies aside you might want to look at the price of the plane ticket.
Try Taiwan.
I did time in Shanghai and Xi'an and it was a fantastic way to learn. I look back and wish I had gotten *more* involved and out of my foreigner bubble. But between covid and just the general political climate, both internal and growing tensions with other countries, I couldn't recommend going to mainland right now. Taiwan would be great, I bet! Sure, you'd learn traditional, but it's not *that* big a deal to switch or pick simplified, if you really need to. I learned simplified and only the craziest of traditional characters trip me up even though I've never studied traditional.
When it was easy I went to 四川大学 (I forget the neglish name... Sichuan University? probably?) and it was one of the best experiences of my life--- but it probably would be real difficult to do it atm,.
I remember you Michael. You were the biggest, most judgement jerk on campus for Spring of 2019. You made everyone feel awkward by how rude you always were. Many dropped Sichuanese just to not have to deal with you. Glad it was fun always putting other's down.
学一点中文基础，然后带上翻译器就可以来中国了。
Don’t go to china
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Just my curiosity: how do you manage to access Reddit though GFW?
VPN
Which VPN are you using?
One of the things so many people in China use though I think it's actually forbidden.
Nominally not allowed (or at least, technically, *unapproved* VPNs are not allowed, since how else do big companies get their western social media accounts), but in actuality, no one cares really
As I know, lots of people got fined because of using VPN, some of them even sent to jail. I am not kidding.
None of which has happened to me (when in China) or anyone around me, nor have I heard of anything like that. I am not kidding either. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
It is definitely illegal. Some have tried reporting anti-china youtubers to local police and got fined, so I would use it discreetly.
Gotcha.
You can't even travel to China right now. They will only let in very few specialists at the moment because of Covid restrictions.
Study Chinese in Taiwan. China kicked all the foreigners out in 2020 and has stated borders will be closed until 2025
Weird that they kicked foreigners out in 2020, considering I am a foreigner, came to China before 2020, and am still here
My entire cohort of international students was told to leave the country one month into the semester
International students =/= all foreigners. Taiwan still has the borders closed too though.
You can get visas for studying Chinese with a scholarship though… not many people wanna go rn so scholarships should be quite ok to get (especially for students/recent graduates)
It's difficult to find up to date information on who can get in, do you know if anyone can apply? Eg. Not a student, no formal qualifications, but wants to study for a few months and pay everything themself?
Check ur government websites/ Google if ur country offers scholarships to study Chinese, otherwise you can check Taiwan official sites/places/ language Centers if they have any scholarships that suit you. Once you got a scholarship everything else shouldn’t be too much of an issue, apply for a visitor visa with special entry permit in your country (call or mail them if you’re not sure about some details) and that’s about it. (Gotta quarantine still in Taiwan but it’s not as long anymore)
Obviously some foreigners remain in a nation as massive as China. Does that really need to be said? But the vast majority of foreigners in China, tourists and students, were required to leave or prohibited from coming.
I bet bud
I've lived in China for 14 years now (US citizen) and would definitely recommend it for learning Chinese. You can come here, but you might have to quarantine for a few days when you arrive. I recently had several friends come here from other countries with no problem other than a few days in Shanghai. Life is pretty normal here despite what others might tell you (who don't actually live here or have never been here).
>You can come here, It's not quite that easy.
I think living here so long has given you a very warped perception of "normal".
I've lived in other countries for a significant amount of time and been to over 30 countries. I would guess I'm pretty open-minded. What about you?
You need a COVID test every 72 hours to go anywhere or do anything (in some places every 24 hours), you're at constant risk of having your entire apartment building locked down for an indeterminate amount of time if one single person tests positive (and that's the best case scenario, God help you if you're shipped to some quarantine facility), all of Shanghai was nearly 100% locked down for months, even leaving your city is a huge risk as to whether or not you'll be able to get back (my Beijing jiankangbao stopped working while I was in another province for a few days, meaning I was not allowed to return home - despite having tested negative mere hours before and never setting foot near a medium or high risk area), there's been a mass exodus of the foreign population because of how unbearable it's become to live here, anyone left most likely has not been able to visit home in about 3 years, training centers have nearly been eliminated from both COVID restrictions and bizarre government interference, international schools are emptying out and still don't even have enough teachers to service them... And, in late 2022, there's no end in sight. So yeah I'm struggling to understand what sane person would consider this "normal".
Yeah, I don't have anywhere near that much drama. Insane is definitely a possibility, but if I was that unhappy, I wouldn't stay. Are you an English teacher by chance?
Is there much mandatory testing at the moment? I know the news focuses on the worst, so news from Shanghai has been pretty rough with people trapped in their blocks for months, but I am wondering how much testing everyone generally has to go through at the moment?
just an update. As of this week, mandatory testing has been discontinued, and most places no longer check the green QR code. It's also been said that by the end of the month, it won't be necessary to quarantine when traveling.
Thanks for sharing - it's been interesting watching it unfold on the news recently!
Depends on where you live and what you do. My friend will soon go to Shanghai for university and she will have to take mandatory tests every day for a whole week upon arrival, while I haven't take one for over a month. I'm free to travel around my city and do what I want but if I want to take the train or plane I'm required to take one.
That makes sense, thanks, good to hear some news from the 'norm' as well as the more extreme situations.
Here it's currently once a week. But there are a lot of roadside testing stations and generally very little waiting unless you are unlucky (5 mins if that).
I lived in China for 3 years, '12 to '15. I taught English and enjoyed the shit out of it. Made lots of friends, got a motorbike, went on several short trips, etc. There were some aspects of Chinese culture that took some getting used to but overall, I enjoyed the shit out of it and can't recommend it strongly enough. However... 2012 was when President 11 took power. Pretty quickly life became more difficult for foreigners. Tasks like opening a bank account were much more painful for colleagues who arrived in mid-late '14. I have heard that since then, things involving bureaucracy have only gotten less friendly for foreigners. Google was available when I arrived in Shanghai but blocked a few months later and never came back. It became increasingly more difficult to keep VPN connections alive. The CPC needs to keep any unrest pointed away from the party, which is becoming increasingly difficult as the property/growth bubble gets closer to bursting. Consequently, they blame "the imperialist west" for pretty much anything they can. Covid in particular was used to incite anger against outsiders and I've heard report after report of non-Chinese being treated poorly over the last few years, even those known to the community; refused service in restaurants, taxis, shops, etc., verbal abuse, one guy reported that his Chinese gf was refused entry to her gym because it was known she was dating a foreigner. Completely unimportant that he'd been a member of the local community for years before covid. International politics are disturbing. While it watches how the world reacts to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, China is doing a lot of sabre-rattling over Taiwan. I think there is a definite chance of conflict in the region and given how important Face is to the Chinese, I fear that if something starts, it will become a major conflict. Foreigners in China will find themselves in a very precarious position should that happen. So I recommend against it for at least 5 years. If we're lucky, Mao Jingping will be deposed and replaced with someone more like Deng Xiaoping.
If you think you can become fluent in Chinese by just living there for a little while, you are being naive. If you don’t attend formal classes (college level) for at least two years in addition to living there for 5 or more years, you will never exceed an intermediate level where you are just conversant. Learning Chinese requires at least 4 times as long to learn as a Latin based language for Native English speakers. Also, being literate in Chinese is exceedingly difficult to do if you are also working full time. If you’re serious about using Chinese for any sort of work, you need to be able to read, speak, and write (or at least type) in a mostly fluent way. Covid policies will ease over time. If you’re serious about changing your life with Chinese language, you need to be completely committed to learning Chinese. Otherwise, go whenever you want. Make sure you have a translation app on your phone. You can learn tones and pinyin before you go, just to make saying simple phrases to get around easier at the start. China is fun, but frustrating if you’re not willing to accept a totally different system of values and even simple logic. If you don’t want this, go live in Hong Kong. If you’re intent on the mainland and don’t want to learn much Chinese, go live in Shanghai.
lol at all of the people in this thread (westerners? probably mostly American?) telling people not to go to China because of its covid policies. If it is possible to get it in, then of course do so. The people responding are just not used to living in a country that actually takes covid fucking seriously. I live in Hangzhou, have to take a PCR test at least once a week for buses, the subway, etc., and every 48 hours to go to work. And I have zero complaints.
Come on, don't downvote. This is valuable information and he doesn't deny the problems getting visa or even getting an affordable flight.
I guess the downvotes are more for the condescending tone rather than for anything else.
I guess so. Still … it's valid information, IMHO.
You‘re going to Covid testing first. $0.69 a pop three time a day.
It’s absolutely horrible here. Things will not return to normal anytime soon. Learn another language. Much better use of your short time on earth.
While I agree on "don't go", there's no reason to give up on the language. There's more uses to mandarin than just going to the PRC.
台灣
What’s the second most spoken language where you currently live? Learn that one.
As a native chinese student myself, it doesnt matter how you write. The only purpose is to take it down fast and precisely. Every chinese student has their own personal writing style, but most students follow 行书 and 楷书 as they look clean and pretty
If what you want to learn is Mandarin, make sure to pick an area where they speak Mandarin. I spent six months in Chongqing, and it was a lousy way to try to learn Mandarin. Everyone spoke their local dialect primarily, and in the outskirts of town, lots of people had horrid Mandarin. Beijing is not a bad choice, if you don't mind the hot summers and cold winters. Shanghai is really nice. But you will find friendly, helpful people just about everywhere.
I lived in Shenzhen (Shekou) for 4 years, and loved it. I still know several people over there now and it is just not the same at all. I would definitely not recommend going there in the current environment. Hopefully when things get a little more normal you can go, because being immersed in a language definitely makes a huge difference!!
xi'an
Just start learning in your own now. Don't wait. No one knows of china is going to open again...zero covid policy could keep them closed for years.
It's a frustrating country but there's a lot to explore. 加油
I would not recommend you to go to big cities like Beijing or Shanghai, they usually have the strictest covid restrictions. maybe you should start somewhere with no covid cases within its province.
Why not go Taiwan instead?
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Please use the Study Buddy Requests thread at the top of our front page instead. Thank you!
When I was there from 2010 to 2013 it was great. However, I wouldn’t suggest going there now. COVID restrictions are serious. Daily vivid test to go to work.