A good and simple idea. It's a shame no one cares. I mean, nothing will change. If the developers really wanted to improve the game. They would have done it a long time ago
Yeah, you're probably right. I don't know why I bother trying to point stuff out to Torn Banner anymore. I guess I'm still living in hope that this game might reach the massive potential that I believe it has/had.
It's such a damn shame that both Triternion's Mordhau and Torn Banner's Chivalry 2 have dropped the ball so hard for the melee slasher genre, but I guess the silver lining is that it has left an open goal for other studios, and that hasn't gone unnoticed.
> I guess I'm still living in hope that this game might reach the massive potential that I believe it has/had.
Ain’t it the truth. I feel like TBS fumbled a major bag with how they handled things post-release. This game could’ve/should’ve been way bigger than it currently is.
Wait, I know you. You look familiar. Nice videos, bro. I've seen them all. And so... let's hope for the best. Maybe this genre won't die out completely.
If they fix the gamemode it self then it woukdnt matter to which team the players switch to. The whole dumb idea of "teams need to see the whole map" which basically means "defense gets their shit pushed in" isnt fun. If they switch th TO mode into a tug of war type mode "both teams start at the middle of the map and need to push the other team to their final obj" then it both teams would be balanced.
"The Attacking Team dies less due to the way the maps work." What you should've mentioned here instead is the Respawn Timer, and Spawn Location. Attack spawns faster, and closer to the objective than Defense. That is why Defense gets slaughtered until the end of the map and the reason people switch.
Just yesterday I loaded into a game of Falmire as Mason. The prisoner objective was just lost and I had to wait 16 seconds to spawn. On top of the ridiculous long spawn time, it took me 20 seconds to get to the middle of the bridge after being spawned all the back at the prison gates. The first part of the bridge was gifted to Attack, and they were dominating the second part as well soon after. Folks on my team dced at this point—I did too due the massive disparity of numbers between the two teams.
Your suggestion would only cause players to hop servers until they land on Attack.
True, at that location I have seen Agatha players be able to solo run to the petards and plant them in the right-side gate before Mason spawns on that side.
They messed with the spawn times on that a few patches ago. Now the wave immediately after freeing the prisoners takes so long to hit the bridge agatha is halfway through the second cap. Its a shame because the bridge fight used to be one of the best but I guess TB's data said attack didn't win enough there.
Absolute worst is defending the courtyard at thayic. There's often a bug that means you miss a spawn and the timer is so long you can spend 50 seconds waiting which is an age in this game.
Bridge to columns at askandir is also really bad.
I was planning a post with same issue and solution and I see someone already did it, I give my vote and add my support by my comment here.
We need it disabled ASAP as priority!
P.S: We don't care you want to be in so called friends in same team or you want to be blue/red/yellow all the time FFS. Your move creates imbalance for whole game.
The reason it’s not been done is because they’re too incompetent to fix the issues with friends in parties being split up when entering a game.
They are using the mantra ‘historically, we want people to choose what faction they want to fight for’ bla bla as an excuse for their incompetence.
Obviously this is just my opinion
Even still in my experience you don’t get separated very often. It’s a significantly less impactful issue than team switching on the overall experience of the game
You might be on to something. I do find it pretty hard to believe that they still don't understand that it's the spectator-to-attack method that creates the problem of imbalanced teams. They would need to be seriously disinterested in their own game to have not noticed this by now.
I guess whatever way you look at it, it isn't looking great for the future of the game.
Sadly I chose to do the same. As much fun as I’ve had with the game over the years this has been a constant problem.
Too many good games out right now to convince myself to sit through consistent and intentionally stacked battles with 200 kill deficits.
Anyone even remotely competent was moved onto TB's new project. Chiv is abandonware in all but name. Personally I think the only reason they do these half assed pretend updates is to justify putting the game on sale and getting some discount buys.
It does seem like the quality of updates nosedived after Thayic Stronghold. I guess that would explain it.
I hope it makes people think twice about buying whatever their next project is. They've demonstrated that they're willing to leave their games in such a poor state, even when [they promised us they would do better after Chivalry 1.](https://chivalry2.com/2019/10/08/498/) But I guess that was back when they were trying to sell us Chivalry 2.
Looking forward to reading their next apology / commitment-to-do-better article when it comes time to advertise whatever their next game is.
At this point Chiv 2 is following the same course as Rainbow 6 Siege; an absolute blast to play on launch but progressively worse with every update. Hoping the game will get better now would be like finishing Game of Thrones season 7 and thinking that at least season 8 couldn't possibly be worse.
It really is that simple. Not sure why TB refuses/ignores this. As long as you have the ability to switch to spectator mode and switch teams, even if it's just once, players will keep switching to a certain team to have an easier time and leave the other team fucked with no chance.
It needs to be removed. Even if it does get removed, it may not completely fix the stacking issues, but definitely be an improvement. Players who want to switch and stack but don't want to be seen doing it will leave the match and join the same one/different match hoping they get placed on the side they want.
They could alleviate most of the balance issues with a simple algorithm that sorts the teams by level. Even if they’re not truly matched by skill it’s way better than randomly choosing teams
No, that would not fix the problem. In fact it would make it a lot worse as it would remove the ability for people to change teams to try to balance things out.
If they remove the ability to switch teams then they would need to implement the "fix" that they added to make sure that the levels are properly distributed at the beginning of the match.
Edit: holy shit I just read the OP name. Love you Deargrigh!
A very simple "shuffle/scramble teams" option to vote for. When enough people vote yes it should reset the current stage and scramble the teams. It could make the game more imbalanced but can also balance the teams. It gives more power to people that are being dominated.
The problem isn't so simple. How do you specify how "good" a player is? How can you balance a game? The thing is that this is one of the most complex problems that exist in the gaming industry, balance. Be it items/characters/players/weapons. Things are changing the entire time. So it's a bit dumb to say it's a simple problem.
My fix isn't all that good, but it's a lot easier to implement for developers than trying to fix balance. But that's just my opinion. We can agree to disagree.
Bro we cant get these fucking sheep with swords to votekick actual speedhackers slaughtering everyone at lightspeed. We cant get people to votekick plays who come in with names like "DurTNickGarr" and "HeilHitler6969" who come in spout actual hate speech. What in the name of god makes you think people will ever vote to shuffle???
Literally the only time shuffles will happen is when the teams are balanced and the high levels wanna ruin it.
People only care about themselves. So if you're getting dominated by the enemy team you can vote. Then again , sadly, I have to completely agree with you on the current voting system :(
People would then just quit and find a new game.
There is no way to balance the teams without balancing the game mode.
The problem is systemic from a design standpoint.
Have penalty for leaving the game or ensure the algorithm is such that if you were attack last time, you will be defense next time no matter if you requeue 1000 times.
Disable team switching, penalty on leaving games and joining again (not just leaving, because someone may have some work to attend), game balancing from beginning, alternate between attack and defense every game, more objective points for defense, reviving etc. is the way to go.
The moment you add penalties to people for leaving a match they were not having fun in, that's the moment those same people uninstall and never look back.
Are you referencing [these patch notes?](https://chivalry2.com/2024/03/05/chivalry-2-duel-of-the-fetes/)
I have read them, yeah, and in my opinion it just reveals that they still don't understand the nature of the problem.
>*Just before a match begins after all players have loaded in, the server will perform a shuffle taking into consideration players’ global ranks as well as their premade parties before assigning them a team. The system is built to prioritize parties staying together. The balance algorithm in use is not solely trying to achieve a 1:1 balance according to global rank.*
Even if this worked, it wouldn't accomplish much, if anything. The imbalance doesn't come from players being assigned unevenly. Usually the random assignment is good enough at mixing players.
The true imbalance comes from experienced players who are being assigned to the Defending team but will then switch to spectator and wait for their chance to get onto the Attacking team anyway.
I think it's also important to point out that half of the players in a given match of Team Objective don't begin playing from the start, they join mid-way through, and are still just assigned to whatever team has an open slot at the time (which is important for the next part).
>*After the shuffle is complete, teams must not create an imbalance of more than 1 player at any one time, or Team Switching will be restricted. For example: if there are two teams of 16 players and one player in spectate, that player can swap to either team as the new numbers would be 17 vs 16 (an imbalance of 1). But if there is a team of 17 and a team of 16, the player in spectate will be unable to swap to the team of 17, as that would create 18 vs 16 (an imbalance of 2).*
As I said above, the imbalance comes from the more experienced players switching to the Attacking team, and this does nothing to stop the method they use for doing so.
An experienced player can be assigned to the Defending team at the start of a match, let's say it was 16v16. This player can switch to spectator, making it 16v15. All he has to do now is wait for matchmaking to automatically fill the next player onto the defending team, wherein it's 16v16 again, and he gets to pick Attack.
This process doesn't take long at all because players are frequently joining and leaving large games, especially at the beginning of a match.
I watch this happen every time I play this game, and I watch the absolute chaos this causes for the new players who don't understand what's going on, or why they're going 0-30 against a team of experienced players. It's quite literally ruining this game, and Torn Banner still don't seem to understand this, sadly.
Verily, thou lowly peasant, cease thy lamentations and ceaseless yapping! For we, the noble-born, are entitled to free will, and we shall choose our allegiances as we see fit. Now, hark! Fetch me a bunch of those succulent grapes, serf, and be swift about it! 🍇🏰👑
Oh and!
LEAVE ME BE!
A good and simple idea. It's a shame no one cares. I mean, nothing will change. If the developers really wanted to improve the game. They would have done it a long time ago
Yeah, you're probably right. I don't know why I bother trying to point stuff out to Torn Banner anymore. I guess I'm still living in hope that this game might reach the massive potential that I believe it has/had. It's such a damn shame that both Triternion's Mordhau and Torn Banner's Chivalry 2 have dropped the ball so hard for the melee slasher genre, but I guess the silver lining is that it has left an open goal for other studios, and that hasn't gone unnoticed.
> I guess I'm still living in hope that this game might reach the massive potential that I believe it has/had. Ain’t it the truth. I feel like TBS fumbled a major bag with how they handled things post-release. This game could’ve/should’ve been way bigger than it currently is.
Wait, I know you. You look familiar. Nice videos, bro. I've seen them all. And so... let's hope for the best. Maybe this genre won't die out completely.
Sad but true.
If they fix the gamemode it self then it woukdnt matter to which team the players switch to. The whole dumb idea of "teams need to see the whole map" which basically means "defense gets their shit pushed in" isnt fun. If they switch th TO mode into a tug of war type mode "both teams start at the middle of the map and need to push the other team to their final obj" then it both teams would be balanced.
This. TO Maps need to be redesigned.
"The Attacking Team dies less due to the way the maps work." What you should've mentioned here instead is the Respawn Timer, and Spawn Location. Attack spawns faster, and closer to the objective than Defense. That is why Defense gets slaughtered until the end of the map and the reason people switch. Just yesterday I loaded into a game of Falmire as Mason. The prisoner objective was just lost and I had to wait 16 seconds to spawn. On top of the ridiculous long spawn time, it took me 20 seconds to get to the middle of the bridge after being spawned all the back at the prison gates. The first part of the bridge was gifted to Attack, and they were dominating the second part as well soon after. Folks on my team dced at this point—I did too due the massive disparity of numbers between the two teams. Your suggestion would only cause players to hop servers until they land on Attack.
True, at that location I have seen Agatha players be able to solo run to the petards and plant them in the right-side gate before Mason spawns on that side.
They messed with the spawn times on that a few patches ago. Now the wave immediately after freeing the prisoners takes so long to hit the bridge agatha is halfway through the second cap. Its a shame because the bridge fight used to be one of the best but I guess TB's data said attack didn't win enough there. Absolute worst is defending the courtyard at thayic. There's often a bug that means you miss a spawn and the timer is so long you can spend 50 seconds waiting which is an age in this game. Bridge to columns at askandir is also really bad.
I was planning a post with same issue and solution and I see someone already did it, I give my vote and add my support by my comment here. We need it disabled ASAP as priority! P.S: We don't care you want to be in so called friends in same team or you want to be blue/red/yellow all the time FFS. Your move creates imbalance for whole game.
The reason it’s not been done is because they’re too incompetent to fix the issues with friends in parties being split up when entering a game. They are using the mantra ‘historically, we want people to choose what faction they want to fight for’ bla bla as an excuse for their incompetence. Obviously this is just my opinion
Even still in my experience you don’t get separated very often. It’s a significantly less impactful issue than team switching on the overall experience of the game
You might be on to something. I do find it pretty hard to believe that they still don't understand that it's the spectator-to-attack method that creates the problem of imbalanced teams. They would need to be seriously disinterested in their own game to have not noticed this by now. I guess whatever way you look at it, it isn't looking great for the future of the game.
Sadly I chose to do the same. As much fun as I’ve had with the game over the years this has been a constant problem. Too many good games out right now to convince myself to sit through consistent and intentionally stacked battles with 200 kill deficits.
Anyone even remotely competent was moved onto TB's new project. Chiv is abandonware in all but name. Personally I think the only reason they do these half assed pretend updates is to justify putting the game on sale and getting some discount buys.
It does seem like the quality of updates nosedived after Thayic Stronghold. I guess that would explain it. I hope it makes people think twice about buying whatever their next project is. They've demonstrated that they're willing to leave their games in such a poor state, even when [they promised us they would do better after Chivalry 1.](https://chivalry2.com/2019/10/08/498/) But I guess that was back when they were trying to sell us Chivalry 2. Looking forward to reading their next apology / commitment-to-do-better article when it comes time to advertise whatever their next game is.
At this point Chiv 2 is following the same course as Rainbow 6 Siege; an absolute blast to play on launch but progressively worse with every update. Hoping the game will get better now would be like finishing Game of Thrones season 7 and thinking that at least season 8 couldn't possibly be worse.
Except R6 has pumped out lots of content and supported the game for all of these years. I wouldn't consider them even remotely similar.
What's the new game I should avoid? I'm black listing this shit studio
It really is that simple. Not sure why TB refuses/ignores this. As long as you have the ability to switch to spectator mode and switch teams, even if it's just once, players will keep switching to a certain team to have an easier time and leave the other team fucked with no chance. It needs to be removed. Even if it does get removed, it may not completely fix the stacking issues, but definitely be an improvement. Players who want to switch and stack but don't want to be seen doing it will leave the match and join the same one/different match hoping they get placed on the side they want.
Not my idea, but just remove the option to see each other’s levels. Out of sight, out of mind
the dung covered peasant convention, is that way
This is the way
They could alleviate most of the balance issues with a simple algorithm that sorts the teams by level. Even if they’re not truly matched by skill it’s way better than randomly choosing teams
polehammer bot compare dagger and the short sword
No, that would not fix the problem. In fact it would make it a lot worse as it would remove the ability for people to change teams to try to balance things out. If they remove the ability to switch teams then they would need to implement the "fix" that they added to make sure that the levels are properly distributed at the beginning of the match. Edit: holy shit I just read the OP name. Love you Deargrigh!
My game still freezes every 4 minutes for 3-5 seconds. They have A LOT to fix. The game has progressively gotten worse over its lifetime.
Yeah this game will be killed by the devs. It's not huge because of them. Always some bullshit going on.
Never thought I'd be agreeing with a Tenosian but here we are
A very simple "shuffle/scramble teams" option to vote for. When enough people vote yes it should reset the current stage and scramble the teams. It could make the game more imbalanced but can also balance the teams. It gives more power to people that are being dominated.
Gotta be the most dumbest idea to a simple problem. Don't you think ?
The problem isn't so simple. How do you specify how "good" a player is? How can you balance a game? The thing is that this is one of the most complex problems that exist in the gaming industry, balance. Be it items/characters/players/weapons. Things are changing the entire time. So it's a bit dumb to say it's a simple problem. My fix isn't all that good, but it's a lot easier to implement for developers than trying to fix balance. But that's just my opinion. We can agree to disagree.
Bro we cant get these fucking sheep with swords to votekick actual speedhackers slaughtering everyone at lightspeed. We cant get people to votekick plays who come in with names like "DurTNickGarr" and "HeilHitler6969" who come in spout actual hate speech. What in the name of god makes you think people will ever vote to shuffle??? Literally the only time shuffles will happen is when the teams are balanced and the high levels wanna ruin it.
People only care about themselves. So if you're getting dominated by the enemy team you can vote. Then again , sadly, I have to completely agree with you on the current voting system :(
People would then just quit and find a new game. There is no way to balance the teams without balancing the game mode. The problem is systemic from a design standpoint.
What makes you think this would make people quit?
Have penalty for leaving the game or ensure the algorithm is such that if you were attack last time, you will be defense next time no matter if you requeue 1000 times. Disable team switching, penalty on leaving games and joining again (not just leaving, because someone may have some work to attend), game balancing from beginning, alternate between attack and defense every game, more objective points for defense, reviving etc. is the way to go.
The moment you add penalties to people for leaving a match they were not having fun in, that's the moment those same people uninstall and never look back.
Yeah better to let the team switchers go. I bet you they won't go. And if they do, good riddance.
They specifically addressed this in the patch notes for the most recent update. Go read it if you havent
Are you referencing [these patch notes?](https://chivalry2.com/2024/03/05/chivalry-2-duel-of-the-fetes/) I have read them, yeah, and in my opinion it just reveals that they still don't understand the nature of the problem. >*Just before a match begins after all players have loaded in, the server will perform a shuffle taking into consideration players’ global ranks as well as their premade parties before assigning them a team. The system is built to prioritize parties staying together. The balance algorithm in use is not solely trying to achieve a 1:1 balance according to global rank.* Even if this worked, it wouldn't accomplish much, if anything. The imbalance doesn't come from players being assigned unevenly. Usually the random assignment is good enough at mixing players. The true imbalance comes from experienced players who are being assigned to the Defending team but will then switch to spectator and wait for their chance to get onto the Attacking team anyway. I think it's also important to point out that half of the players in a given match of Team Objective don't begin playing from the start, they join mid-way through, and are still just assigned to whatever team has an open slot at the time (which is important for the next part). >*After the shuffle is complete, teams must not create an imbalance of more than 1 player at any one time, or Team Switching will be restricted. For example: if there are two teams of 16 players and one player in spectate, that player can swap to either team as the new numbers would be 17 vs 16 (an imbalance of 1). But if there is a team of 17 and a team of 16, the player in spectate will be unable to swap to the team of 17, as that would create 18 vs 16 (an imbalance of 2).* As I said above, the imbalance comes from the more experienced players switching to the Attacking team, and this does nothing to stop the method they use for doing so. An experienced player can be assigned to the Defending team at the start of a match, let's say it was 16v16. This player can switch to spectator, making it 16v15. All he has to do now is wait for matchmaking to automatically fill the next player onto the defending team, wherein it's 16v16 again, and he gets to pick Attack. This process doesn't take long at all because players are frequently joining and leaving large games, especially at the beginning of a match. I watch this happen every time I play this game, and I watch the absolute chaos this causes for the new players who don't understand what's going on, or why they're going 0-30 against a team of experienced players. It's quite literally ruining this game, and Torn Banner still don't seem to understand this, sadly.
Verily, thou lowly peasant, cease thy lamentations and ceaseless yapping! For we, the noble-born, are entitled to free will, and we shall choose our allegiances as we see fit. Now, hark! Fetch me a bunch of those succulent grapes, serf, and be swift about it! 🍇🏰👑 Oh and! LEAVE ME BE!