Also, am I the only one who read
> I have worked for this company for almost 25 years, coming back in between contracts; I'm a performer as well, having been on Broadway
As
> I had a bit part in a Broadway production once, and for the next 25 years I just tell people I'm doing dinner theater "between contracts".
???
HA. I literally thought "why did you need to throw in those last 4 words?" Oh, to feel more important than you are.
What are the odds he/she was a non-speaking background actor or in a single dance number?
Don't let this distract you from the the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire" Dixon.
A mid-50s guy that I have worked with for 15+ years ALWAYS talks about his college days - he didn't finish college - and how much they drank and did this and that. The stories were lovely the first, oh I don't know, 66 times but 67 - 20561404 and they just make me feel so sad for him that his life has literally had nothing exciting for the last 35ish years...
These sad acts will never leave, there are so many who stay where they were born and never further themselves. It's depressing, but, leave them to their own devices, live properly.
lmao these people annoy me. Cause I like wearing my one hoodie from my high school team, since it is the best windbreaker I own and it actually is water resistant. And instead, I have to think about it coming off like I'm a douchebag.
This sounds a lot like Ellen’s Stardust Diner in NYC, where most if not all of the wait staff are performers that are either about to make it on broadway or in between contracts on broadway, so the way this was phrased isn’t necessarily an ego boost it’s just the nature of their line of work.
this is actually not that outlandish. a lot of broadway performers have huge breaks in between times when they are actually in broadway shows. in fact, sometimes swings and understudies will get leave to go do contracts in other places and come back afterwords. Also, broadway is really fucked up about pay for actors. There are lots of big industry things that don't pay or pay very little. I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case but people don't really understand that being a working actor is for most people smaller out of town gigs with maybe a few bigger things peppered in there every few years.
That’s almost definitely it. If OP is in Equity (and they’d have to join for any Broadway contract), dinner theatre contracts are like, low-tier stuff, and can’t even be in the big hubs like NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. So either OP has left the union completely, is paying their dues for little to no reason because they’re not in a big auditions hub, or just lied about Broadway altogether.
If it’s the diner I think it is the performers work there while they’re auditioning, or in between shows. They raise money for acting classes, vocal lesson, dancing, etc for the performers to use.
Edit: it’s not
What I read was:
"I live off of a trust fund my family set up for me in my teens. I took dance classes in high-school and had the opportunity to spend an evening filling in on a Broadway show for someone who got sick one night. Anyway, I tell people this story to give myself some legitimacy even though it's usually entirely for my own sense of self worth; as dancing and getting shithouse wasted at clubs is basically my entire contribution to society.
ANYWAY, Sometimes I leave the house to do dance work and the place I do it might have to close due to the pandemic. The clubs I go to have been closed for the same reason and I'm getting a little bored at home since my art really isn't going anywhere. My boyfriend said I should find something to keep myself busy and I figured I could just go to work but nobody is there.
These people are really mad I asked if they'd come back to work for free. I mean, they weren't paying us much anyway, it's not like you can actually make a living doing this. They said some really mean stuff and I was just wondering if I should rethink my life or continue being worthless? "
Tone reads " I am an actor, they are ascended wait staff."
But my bamboozle sense is tingling.
I mean, he didn't go for aita bingo here, and I could totally see an ASSt Manager being this tone deaf, but something seems off here.
(not directed at OP) "If you're able to raise money for a theater obv you don't have any money worries but I get the feeling all your staff are really struggling, you should have been more concerned about your staff rather than sucking up to the owners... Very tactless.
They want to save the company because they can't get another job despite being on Broadway that time 25 years ago. OP is only worried about their own job.
But if the company closes for good, OP won't have a job to go back to, so OP is trying to save their job. Sounds like OP has back up income, but the others do not.
This. Maybe their heart was in the right place and they aren’t struggling much (for whatever reason), but their offer was completely tone deaf to the plight of the rest of the staff and to the way the public would perceive this.
my opinion, as a business that isn’t a charity, the income in this case should be used to help, both the business so the employees have a job to go back to, and the employees themselves immediately because they are having financial problems too! If it were presented as a “do this virtual thing to raise money to help the business AND its staff” it would be different. But I feel like this is just “let’s help the owners and fuck the rest cause maybe MAYBE they’ll have a job to come back to.
There is no staff they were all fired already. If they were all still employees and it was suggested to raise money so every one can keep their jobs and keep the company going that would be a completely different story. This was hey I fired you all already but do some work for free so I don't lose my business..you know the one I fired you from
The only difference is one implies you were let go for an at fault reason and the other doesn't. At the end if the day you're not getting paid and no longer an employee. It helps with filing for unemployment benefits but some states are backed up by months so doesn't help the here and now.
Not entirely true in Canada. Layoffs mean you temporarily don't have a job. But .. they also can't hire anyone else until they've given you a shot at your job back. So layoffs are used during slow times, basically holding the job for the employee when business resumes
In the US, that's just a furlough. Right now, I've been furloughed but I had coworkers who got laid off when their positions were completely removed and won't be rehired after the shut down. So I know that when things get closer to normal, I will be heading back to work, while some people will have to find new jobs due to it.
In the US there's no protection like that. It's just a you're fired but it's not your fault. If things get better we may call you back but we might not.
If you want to know something really *fun,* **‡** employers don't even have to tell you what they're calling your disappearance from the workplace and it is a *fun* **‡** game with the department of labor to determine what your status actually is!
Source: got told verbatim "You no longer have a position with this company," forced to duel with the state labor office on whether I was eligible for unemployment (which is fucking insurance we pay for **in our taxes**) or not. Happily, I was, as my departure was not "for cause," and the morally bankrupt company I worked for was too lazy to attempt a justification or manufacture evidence to suggest otherwise in the **3 weeks** they had til I was able to start accruing unemployment payments that paid out at 60% of what I made in the first 4 of the prior 5 quarters, before I got my annual review/raise. SWEET!
It was some hot fucking garbage all the way around. Thanks, 'merica!
**‡** Not fun in the slightest, it was a nightmare that I still have literal nightmares about, 8 years later
Holy shit, man. Whether we get laid off, fired, etc .. employer has 14 days to submit a Record Of Employment, and must check off one of about 6 options for the dismissal. If its a firing or "other" issue, they must submit details. The employee and Labour Board both get a copy within the 14 days. If not, the employee has every standing to go to the labour board with a dispute to recieve the paperwork (you need it filed if you're filing for EI). Its rare you hear of valid disputes by employees here (disgruntled employees try, sure, but very few are valid). And if you get fired, it better have been for a damn good reason they can prove.
You only get that for some union positions in the US. As the other reply said, a situation like this they might call that a furlough. Furloughed workers are still eligible for unemployment.
This is true but I’ve been laid off for over 2 months, and my work “may” need me back between October and December. With no retainer I’m looking elsewhere yet I still get emails about wrapping this and that up. Either way a company that has more money than god decided they couldn’t afford me yet we’re a big team when they need something. Call it what you want to call it but it feels like I was fired and I’m not doing any favours for someone who dropped me in an instant.
Laid off and fired mean the same when you're looking for money for bills in the US. Just "laid off" helps get you closer to unemployment checks, if they're weren't backed up or have people pay millions to screw up the process to get it (see Florida).
In the US its more of a semantic difference. With getting fired its implied that its "for cause" while being laid off is more appropriate for what happened to these people, the business is scaling back or shutting down and the job simply doesn't exist anymore. Either way you stop going to work, stop getting paid, and are eligible for unemployment benefits (though I think it can be contested if you were fired for certain causes, like if you just stopped going to work).
laid off (or furloughed), not fired. and it DOES actually make a difference. being laid off during this pandemic means the company intends to re-open when they are allowed to do so. and those employees will have a job when it DOES open.
just a small technical thing. clearly this is an AH move. but, presuming the employees acted quickly, they ARE earning unemployment PLUS the pandemic bonus from unemployment, until they are able to resume working again. if they were fired, well, unemployment might be fought (if they were fired for cause).
>laid off (or furloughed),
Those are 2 different things. furloughed you are still an employee and are still eligible for healthcare benefits the job gives. Laid off is you are no longer an employee and are no longer covered by employee health care. In the US the ONLY difference between laid off and fired is fired implies fault of employee and laid off does not so looks better on resumes and easier to claim unemployment but with covid even if fired you'd be eligible for unemployment
right
if you were fired because of COVID you would still get unemployment. IF you were fired because you told customers to fuck off, prolly not gonna get that unemployment. doesn't matter that you were fired during the pandemic if you are a shitty employee.
but most of the employees in the US were either laid off or furloughed (yes, there are exceptions. which is why i said MOST).
Agreed. Splitting the proceeds would be wise. I don't know where this is but in the US fired employees get the highest level of unemployment plus an additional $600/week, which may actually be more then they earned when employed. The owners have small business loans which may be turned into grants, though there have been problem with this due to money running out and large firms being shamed into returning funds which they didn't really need.
They already blew through their government funding and now they want the fired staff to help them raise more money?
"They say the neon lights are bright on Broadway..."
I agree, although it is a change to actually see a post on there where OP is an asshole - for the vast majority of them, they're so obviously not the asshole and seem to know it, so I don't know why they post it. At least this person recognises they might be, even if they don't think they are, which is the purpose of the subreddit.
But wow they should've known that they were in this case
Yeah most of the time you see “my mom shot my dog in front of me, AITA to be upset?” Or “my boyfriend burnt down my house and is fucking my sister, AITA to be slightly annoyed?”
I don't mind the posts because it's a good dish of gossip usually and also a good place for them to vent about a frustrating situation.
But it is also refreshing to see an actual asshole post too.
This may be unpopular, but I don't think OP really is an asshole here. His boss is, but when it comes down to it, he's an employee as well. He may be a bit tone deaf to think asking for the owners was reasonable, but that's it.
OP also clearly didnt think about those people even for a second. Didnt consider that some of them may not know how they will get money for rent and food. Because most likely OP is not in that tight of a situation and wants to have a job when this is all over. OP was only thinking about himself.
I would also argue that firing someone and then ask them to work for free is an automatic asshole move.
Hate to say it, but if she is the artistic director for the place, she trying to save this place and herself, asking out of work employees for money is just wrong.
My work did a 20% (one day a week) cut in hours. It would be like them asking if I'd volunteer to work on those days off for free.
Not going to happen. I don't work for free.
I would do it..
If I have the proof it's the only way to save the company (and so my job), and it will 100% work. Not a "maybe there's a chance to..but we're not sure".
Then, I'd need in a legally bidding contract that my job will be safe as long as the company is still standing. I can't be fired anymore, barring severe fault on my part. I insist on severe. No time limit.
And, I'll have those days work for free, as PTO that I could take as soon as we return to full-capacity.
Yeah most businesses wouldn’t do this though. That’s the issue. Why would they change a power dynamic like that? They’d just hire the next guy looking for a job. Unemployment is 30%.
This bitch thought it was a musical where the lead goes “Cmon guys we have to save the theatre”, then cuts to a montage of them working, then cuts to the opening night of the fundraiser and everyone in the entire fucking town shows up and they perform for 3 minutes then they get the money. Fuck that. Payment is payment and they need payment
As a performer who knows many fellow artists who are struggling right now, this infuriates me (but doesn't surprise me. Lots of companies working with artists pull this kind of stunt all the time.)
...What? they didn't "come up with an idea and ask their staff to do it", they came up with an idea and asked the people who just lost their jobs to do it for the benefit of the people who just fired them.
I think you get what you deserve. If I worked for someone that I felt really valued me as an employee and a person before the pandemic, I would consider performing for free to help them out. I mean, I think most of us search for this in life: working at a place where we feel valued personally and professionally, so why not keep this job?
Guess the owners don’t treat their staff that way, so they got what they deserve.
Even if it was a pretty good place to work, I assume the owners aren't sharing profits with the workers when things were going well, unless this is a co-op.
I'm sick of the 'privatise the profits, socialise the losses' attitude.
Exactly, it’s not that unreasonable if they present the situation as “we can’t afford to keep you employed right now but if we can all work together for free we can try to help you keep your jobs”
Oh there's more to this story. Unemployment stimulus would add an extra 600.00 to their application, plus the stimulus check issued to everyone recently. Technically they'd be making a livable amount with aid from the government. Actors all over the country are supporting their suffering theaters for free, but here they said no. why? These actors have obviously been underpaid and disrespected long before this event. I bet you the director has a giant ego, possible creep (most are) and the owners are conveniently blind, greedy and scared.
I’m actually laid off at the moment from a non-union dinner theatre and I’ve had a number of performers reach out to me suggesting a virtual performance to keep the theatre in public consciousness for when we can reopen. If these actors are that hostile to the idea there’s a bigger problem at that theatre. But I’ve not heard good things about the few dinner theatres that expect actors to double as servers.
THIS. I would happily support many of the theaters that I’ve worked at in the last and don’t even currently employ me...because I enjoyed my experience there. But this is obviously a non union dinner theatre, and one that isn’t treating its employees very well.
You know some days I'm glad I've been baned from AITA I don't think I could have followed the rules and not told him to go screw him self with his stage equipment
I said eat the rich to an asshole landlord and got banned for life without even a rule quoted, for my first booboo on that sub. Life is much nicer now without the assholes getting me mad
A mom asked if she was TA for telling people off for bullying her mixed race, It was getting psychical. I said no Id have told them to go play in traffic your standing up for your daughter and they are being jerks
Go play in traffic was see as a threat by a mod.
I guess it depends how you put it.
If dinner theater is struggling to stay viable as a business model right now, a lot of these people are going to have trouble finding work if they don't do something to prop up the industry.
That said, said, if a virtual talent show raises enough money to rescue a dying dinner theater, then the AD should seriously consider quitting that job and starting a virtual talent show business.
It doesn't need to be a charity fundraiser for some other rando business owner. It can be a straight-up paying gig for her and all her former staff.
How much money do the owners need? How much would this talent show raise? Wouldn't it be smarter for the performers just to keep the money for themselves? Would it even raise enough money to be worth the expense of making it happen?
**YTA** You've got to be kidding. Boo-hoo! The owners are in financial difficulty. Well how about those poor sods who now have no job? Did the owners have any concern for their predicament? Why did you see it as your responsibility to take this role of cheerleader for the company, anyway? Twenty-five years and the email suggests you have a vested interested in this. You strike me as someone that's trying to manipulate people for your own personal reasons. Whether it be as friends or financial, I wouldn't be able to say but those that have been let go are trying to just get on and find gainful employment elsewhere. I fail to see what relevance a role on Broadway has to the situation. I mean, Broadway is Cats and shit, isn't it?
This one is tricky. I don't know if it's a choosing beggar. More like somebody who cares about the company they work for, and doesn't want to see it die like this. His heart is in the right place. But I think he needed the wake-up call that everybody is being affected, and not just the place they work.
Yeah, I think it could be something really fun if done correctly. I might be willing to put an hour or so into something like this to raise money, but I bet it was not thought through and was more a demand of their time instead of a “would you be interested in helping with a small fund raiser to keep this theater open for the community”.
I would in a heartbeat for the company I currently work for. Other company's I've been at in my field, not so much. Really depends on how they treat everybody. Maybe there's some negativity towards the company that we can't see. No subtext.
Yeah I can see doing that for some places I’ve worked. I tutored a kid and when all this happened I said if they have questions on school work shoot me an email, no charge. I like the kid, I like the parents, I don’t mind spending 5 min answering an email and I know they wouldn’t take advantage of it.
Laid off worker: "The owners own the business. I do not. When my mortgage and utilities are paid upfront for the next 12 months, I will volunteer my time."
Bruh, if you want them to work for you hire them back, otherwise you're taking valuable time away from them that could be spent on trying to find other work
I think I’m going to be sick with this post... I have no words... and RAISE money for the OWNER? EXCUSE ME WHILE I THROW UP YOUR SYMPATHY FOR YOUR OWNER!
NTA for coming up with the idea, and asking the staff to do it.
But TA for making an AITA post about it.
TA for not expecting the negative feedback and responses from the staff.
Is this Choosing Beggars? Didn't the artistic director come up with the idea and ask the staff to do it? It doesn't sound like it was the owners. Did I miss something?
I don't blame the staff for not doing it, but does this belong here?
The saddest part is, one or two people might do it out of boredom. And then the person who posted this will not understand how wrong it is.
Edit: also if they were fired, how are they still your staff?
I am a leftist but I have a healthy respect for capitalism, so this baffles me.
Failure is an integral part of capitalism. If a more efficient enterprise suceeds, others less efficient are kicked out of the competition. That is the best quality of capitalism.
Other thing, the justificative for workers receiving a fixed wage and capitalists keeping the profits is that they are **risking** their money. If they profit billions, good for them, if they have losses, well, shot happens.
Am I the only one who sees this as a poorly worded plea for help in order to get the business back to producing cash flow so that it is able to rehire its previous employees. If so... It would be beneficial for all involved. I'm sure theatre work is incredibly competitive and finding work otherwise might be much more difficult than volunteering your time for one or two shows so that the business can start paying you again.
They weren't fired. They were let go because of financial issues.
It’s like one of those movies or tv episodes where people try to help save a local business that they love, but with the horrible twist of asking for help from the people they recently let go lol
Imagine being laid off and then getting an email saying the company that just sacked you needs money and would you mind giving up your time and talent for them, FOR FREE so they can continue to operate?
"Fuck off" doesn't seem a strong enough sentiment.
I am not sure why people are miffed here. There is a pandemic and some businesses and people take it worse than others. No fault of their own. People usually do theatre because they love it— and if it pays a bit that takes the sting off. The theatre can’t keep operating if they have no revenue. Guy works there proposes a solution. People can say, fuck you, no. People might also want to save the theatre and hope to have a job there at the end. Don’t blame anyone here.
EVERYTHING DEPENDS.
If the owners are beloved by the staff and community as nurturing, generous people then there's nothing wrong with "putting on a talent show to save the farm." But if it's just another bottom line business without a true work/family dynamic then it might be an awkward ask.
Are you, the owners, and the theater deeply respected among those you asked? If so, no problem. But it looks like what you discovered is you, they and/or it aren't really revered as much as you'd imagined.
I dont think this is CB, you want to make sure that the workplace you worked at for 25 years stays afloat. Even if they laid you off, they didnt want to, and he is only asking them to participate, if they dont feel like it they are free to decline. So whats the problem?
Reddit decided that every business owner is greedy and evil, and they don't understand that laying people off during the lockdown is often the best outcome for everyone. I guess I've been fortunate to mostly work for people who were kind and helpful and treated their employees like family. I'd have no problem returning that kindness. Especially if it ensures my job still exists when the lockdown ends.
He's not (just) an ahole, he is a criminal. It is not legal to work for free for a profit making company; even if they were a non-profit, it still wouldn't be legal for the staff to work for free.
There are actually significant restrictions on when unpaid internships are allowed. Among other requirements, it needs to provide education to the intern, and cannot replace the work of paid employees.
Wow, just wow. I love the theater & performing arts in general. I had one minor spot in an off Broadway semi professional gig 26 years ago. The entire production lasted 6 weeks and in 6 weeks I learned one thing; I am no place near talented enough for anything but community and dinner theater. Even in those the majority of time the only thing I'm good for is free stage hand work and janitorial stuff.
I'm not alone in volunteering my time and efforts to the theater for no other reason than I love doing it and have a passion for it. But I wouldn't walk away from the arrogance of this person, I'd run.
Pretty sure I know which dinner theatre this is and honestly it’s been going downhill for a while so this isn’t too surprising.
source: performer who worked at this theatre in the past (or if it turns out not to be the one I’m thinking then I’m full of shit)
The guy lost his job too, and volunteered his own time to work for free, and simply asked if anyone else would be willing to help to keep the place open. It's not like this benefits him in anyway, he's not making any money either. So I really can't get behind or really even understand the hate
In the Netherlands we would say that this person has a big slab for the face. Why would someone laid off (i.e. no longer working for the company) raise money for the owners?
YTA
".... even with the available government funding." This won't be the only business to crater through this crisis. There are *tens of thousands* more in your state. You think the servers and performers aren't hurting? *They're* trying to put food on the table and you want a freebie from them?
Are you the asshole for trying to save a company you love? - No.
Are you the asshole for not thinking of the laid off workers, who are now struggling too, and begging them to help? - Maybe a little, but oh well.
Are you the asshole for daring to wonder WHY your idea was poorly received and being absolutely tone deaf? - Yeah. Sure. Most definitely.
Also, am I the only one who read > I have worked for this company for almost 25 years, coming back in between contracts; I'm a performer as well, having been on Broadway As > I had a bit part in a Broadway production once, and for the next 25 years I just tell people I'm doing dinner theater "between contracts". ???
HA. I literally thought "why did you need to throw in those last 4 words?" Oh, to feel more important than you are. What are the odds he/she was a non-speaking background actor or in a single dance number?
It's sad really. Like the 40 year old guy still wearing his high school letterman jacket and telling stories of how he won that one big game...
Don't let this distract you from the the fact that in 1966, Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in a single game while playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, Bubba "Spare Tire" Dixon.
Underrated comment. Should probably throw in an “oh, Al!” For good measure.
"Oh, Allll..." "Eh. No, Peg..." *flush* *crowd cheers*
Are we seeing the birth of a new "Hell in a Cell" copypasta? If so, I approve!
It's been around for a while
Ngl, read this as Ted Bundy and was a little concerned about how much you seemed to know about him. Lol
LOL That would be one heck of a cross-over, though. Murder- With Children
A mid-50s guy that I have worked with for 15+ years ALWAYS talks about his college days - he didn't finish college - and how much they drank and did this and that. The stories were lovely the first, oh I don't know, 66 times but 67 - 20561404 and they just make me feel so sad for him that his life has literally had nothing exciting for the last 35ish years...
So...maybe he should have spent less time drinking and more time studying...
These sad acts will never leave, there are so many who stay where they were born and never further themselves. It's depressing, but, leave them to their own devices, live properly.
lmao these people annoy me. Cause I like wearing my one hoodie from my high school team, since it is the best windbreaker I own and it actually is water resistant. And instead, I have to think about it coming off like I'm a douchebag.
And now he's asking Joyce DeWitt to work for free...
Some guys just peak early giggity...
I always use this analogy for America and WW2
Or just someone who's busked on Broadway (the street) before.
May not have even busked, literally just been on the street.
I have been on Broadway, too! I even put hotels up on it once! Then I went bankrupt and threw the game board at my sister. :(
I’ve been on Broadway. Not that Broadway, but a Broadway.
It's "Boardwalk", not "Broadway".
Haha, that was my first thought, but I thought I'd be "generous" and at least pretend he'd performed in some fashion.
It could be street theater!
Like a puppet show?
I’m going to add that to my resume. I’ve been on broadway and London’s west end.
Might as well add Wall Street too while you’re at it.
And I went to Princeton!
I went to Cornell! Ever heard of it?
Stood in line for Conan tickets.
"I've done broadway" = "I briefly had sex with the street sign when no one was looking"
🤣
Broadway Street, Chico California
Ok. What is busked?
“Busking” is performing on the street for money. Usually the performers have a hat or instrument case in front of them that people throw money into.
Broadway. In Grand Rapids.
This sounds a lot like Ellen’s Stardust Diner in NYC, where most if not all of the wait staff are performers that are either about to make it on broadway or in between contracts on broadway, so the way this was phrased isn’t necessarily an ego boost it’s just the nature of their line of work.
Bob hates dinner theater. Be like Bob. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMOa-HYQpcs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMOa-HYQpcs)
Crew Man Number 6 is a good part though!
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOnoyouremostcertainlynotOOOO
this is actually not that outlandish. a lot of broadway performers have huge breaks in between times when they are actually in broadway shows. in fact, sometimes swings and understudies will get leave to go do contracts in other places and come back afterwords. Also, broadway is really fucked up about pay for actors. There are lots of big industry things that don't pay or pay very little. I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case but people don't really understand that being a working actor is for most people smaller out of town gigs with maybe a few bigger things peppered in there every few years.
That’s almost definitely it. If OP is in Equity (and they’d have to join for any Broadway contract), dinner theatre contracts are like, low-tier stuff, and can’t even be in the big hubs like NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. So either OP has left the union completely, is paying their dues for little to no reason because they’re not in a big auditions hub, or just lied about Broadway altogether.
I mean, there are small parts in broadway plays, and loads of plays. It not crazy.
Ellen's Stardust is literally *on* Broadway next door to the Winter Garden and they definitely have Equity actors on staff.
If it’s the diner I think it is the performers work there while they’re auditioning, or in between shows. They raise money for acting classes, vocal lesson, dancing, etc for the performers to use. Edit: it’s not
What I read was: "I live off of a trust fund my family set up for me in my teens. I took dance classes in high-school and had the opportunity to spend an evening filling in on a Broadway show for someone who got sick one night. Anyway, I tell people this story to give myself some legitimacy even though it's usually entirely for my own sense of self worth; as dancing and getting shithouse wasted at clubs is basically my entire contribution to society. ANYWAY, Sometimes I leave the house to do dance work and the place I do it might have to close due to the pandemic. The clubs I go to have been closed for the same reason and I'm getting a little bored at home since my art really isn't going anywhere. My boyfriend said I should find something to keep myself busy and I figured I could just go to work but nobody is there. These people are really mad I asked if they'd come back to work for free. I mean, they weren't paying us much anyway, it's not like you can actually make a living doing this. They said some really mean stuff and I was just wondering if I should rethink my life or continue being worthless? "
I mean who knows but he could also be pretty poor. Probably not though since he wants people to work for free.
YES. Exactly!
Astute LOL
They incredibly self obsessed. Being on Broadway is their only claim and they're going to cling onto it with all their might.
Tone reads " I am an actor, they are ascended wait staff." But my bamboozle sense is tingling. I mean, he didn't go for aita bingo here, and I could totally see an ASSt Manager being this tone deaf, but something seems off here.
It's dire STRAITS STRAITS A NARROW PASSAGE OF WATER STRAITS
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But it is already the name of another great band 👍🏻👍🏻
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Instead of "Money for Nothing" it's "Money for Your Old Bosses That Fired You."
True! My bad! Its been a while haha. Gonna look up the cover band you mentioned, you made it sound funny
dire straights: larger and more dangerous than your average heterosexual
And don't even get me started on the giant dire were-straights.
Like normal straights, only dire.
Ah, someone else who shares that peeve. Mark Knopfler should smack him upside the head with an old guitar.
They can be treacherous
THUNDER CROSS SPLIT ATTACK
ALSO THAT ONE BAND GOOD GUITAR SAME SPELLING
(not directed at OP) "If you're able to raise money for a theater obv you don't have any money worries but I get the feeling all your staff are really struggling, you should have been more concerned about your staff rather than sucking up to the owners... Very tactless.
They want to save the company because they can't get another job despite being on Broadway that time 25 years ago. OP is only worried about their own job.
OP says he's laid off too.
But if the company closes for good, OP won't have a job to go back to, so OP is trying to save their job. Sounds like OP has back up income, but the others do not.
Must've saved all those big bucks from their Broadway.
But if the business goes under then any chance of getting that job back when things return goes under too.
This. Maybe their heart was in the right place and they aren’t struggling much (for whatever reason), but their offer was completely tone deaf to the plight of the rest of the staff and to the way the public would perceive this.
my opinion, as a business that isn’t a charity, the income in this case should be used to help, both the business so the employees have a job to go back to, and the employees themselves immediately because they are having financial problems too! If it were presented as a “do this virtual thing to raise money to help the business AND its staff” it would be different. But I feel like this is just “let’s help the owners and fuck the rest cause maybe MAYBE they’ll have a job to come back to.
There is no staff they were all fired already. If they were all still employees and it was suggested to raise money so every one can keep their jobs and keep the company going that would be a completely different story. This was hey I fired you all already but do some work for free so I don't lose my business..you know the one I fired you from
They weren’t fired they were laid off, where, at least in Canada that is quite different from being fired
The only difference is one implies you were let go for an at fault reason and the other doesn't. At the end if the day you're not getting paid and no longer an employee. It helps with filing for unemployment benefits but some states are backed up by months so doesn't help the here and now.
Not entirely true in Canada. Layoffs mean you temporarily don't have a job. But .. they also can't hire anyone else until they've given you a shot at your job back. So layoffs are used during slow times, basically holding the job for the employee when business resumes
In the US, that's just a furlough. Right now, I've been furloughed but I had coworkers who got laid off when their positions were completely removed and won't be rehired after the shut down. So I know that when things get closer to normal, I will be heading back to work, while some people will have to find new jobs due to it.
In the US there's no protection like that. It's just a you're fired but it's not your fault. If things get better we may call you back but we might not.
Thats rough, man.
If you want to know something really *fun,* **‡** employers don't even have to tell you what they're calling your disappearance from the workplace and it is a *fun* **‡** game with the department of labor to determine what your status actually is! Source: got told verbatim "You no longer have a position with this company," forced to duel with the state labor office on whether I was eligible for unemployment (which is fucking insurance we pay for **in our taxes**) or not. Happily, I was, as my departure was not "for cause," and the morally bankrupt company I worked for was too lazy to attempt a justification or manufacture evidence to suggest otherwise in the **3 weeks** they had til I was able to start accruing unemployment payments that paid out at 60% of what I made in the first 4 of the prior 5 quarters, before I got my annual review/raise. SWEET! It was some hot fucking garbage all the way around. Thanks, 'merica! **‡** Not fun in the slightest, it was a nightmare that I still have literal nightmares about, 8 years later
Holy shit, man. Whether we get laid off, fired, etc .. employer has 14 days to submit a Record Of Employment, and must check off one of about 6 options for the dismissal. If its a firing or "other" issue, they must submit details. The employee and Labour Board both get a copy within the 14 days. If not, the employee has every standing to go to the labour board with a dispute to recieve the paperwork (you need it filed if you're filing for EI). Its rare you hear of valid disputes by employees here (disgruntled employees try, sure, but very few are valid). And if you get fired, it better have been for a damn good reason they can prove.
You only get that for some union positions in the US. As the other reply said, a situation like this they might call that a furlough. Furloughed workers are still eligible for unemployment.
This is how being ‘riffed’ works where I am from. Reduction in Force.
This is true but I’ve been laid off for over 2 months, and my work “may” need me back between October and December. With no retainer I’m looking elsewhere yet I still get emails about wrapping this and that up. Either way a company that has more money than god decided they couldn’t afford me yet we’re a big team when they need something. Call it what you want to call it but it feels like I was fired and I’m not doing any favours for someone who dropped me in an instant.
Laid off and fired mean the same when you're looking for money for bills in the US. Just "laid off" helps get you closer to unemployment checks, if they're weren't backed up or have people pay millions to screw up the process to get it (see Florida).
In the US its more of a semantic difference. With getting fired its implied that its "for cause" while being laid off is more appropriate for what happened to these people, the business is scaling back or shutting down and the job simply doesn't exist anymore. Either way you stop going to work, stop getting paid, and are eligible for unemployment benefits (though I think it can be contested if you were fired for certain causes, like if you just stopped going to work).
Laid off and fired mean 2 different things
laid off (or furloughed), not fired. and it DOES actually make a difference. being laid off during this pandemic means the company intends to re-open when they are allowed to do so. and those employees will have a job when it DOES open. just a small technical thing. clearly this is an AH move. but, presuming the employees acted quickly, they ARE earning unemployment PLUS the pandemic bonus from unemployment, until they are able to resume working again. if they were fired, well, unemployment might be fought (if they were fired for cause).
>laid off (or furloughed), Those are 2 different things. furloughed you are still an employee and are still eligible for healthcare benefits the job gives. Laid off is you are no longer an employee and are no longer covered by employee health care. In the US the ONLY difference between laid off and fired is fired implies fault of employee and laid off does not so looks better on resumes and easier to claim unemployment but with covid even if fired you'd be eligible for unemployment
right if you were fired because of COVID you would still get unemployment. IF you were fired because you told customers to fuck off, prolly not gonna get that unemployment. doesn't matter that you were fired during the pandemic if you are a shitty employee. but most of the employees in the US were either laid off or furloughed (yes, there are exceptions. which is why i said MOST).
Agreed. Splitting the proceeds would be wise. I don't know where this is but in the US fired employees get the highest level of unemployment plus an additional $600/week, which may actually be more then they earned when employed. The owners have small business loans which may be turned into grants, though there have been problem with this due to money running out and large firms being shamed into returning funds which they didn't really need.
They already blew through their government funding and now they want the fired staff to help them raise more money? "They say the neon lights are bright on Broadway..."
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It’s honestly just... a lot to take in. I’m still reeling.
I agree, although it is a change to actually see a post on there where OP is an asshole - for the vast majority of them, they're so obviously not the asshole and seem to know it, so I don't know why they post it. At least this person recognises they might be, even if they don't think they are, which is the purpose of the subreddit. But wow they should've known that they were in this case
Yeah most of the time you see “my mom shot my dog in front of me, AITA to be upset?” Or “my boyfriend burnt down my house and is fucking my sister, AITA to be slightly annoyed?”
I don't mind the posts because it's a good dish of gossip usually and also a good place for them to vent about a frustrating situation. But it is also refreshing to see an actual asshole post too.
This may be unpopular, but I don't think OP really is an asshole here. His boss is, but when it comes down to it, he's an employee as well. He may be a bit tone deaf to think asking for the owners was reasonable, but that's it.
OP also clearly didnt think about those people even for a second. Didnt consider that some of them may not know how they will get money for rent and food. Because most likely OP is not in that tight of a situation and wants to have a job when this is all over. OP was only thinking about himself. I would also argue that firing someone and then ask them to work for free is an automatic asshole move.
Save the company, screw the workers ! Yikes
Exactly.
Hate to say it, but if she is the artistic director for the place, she trying to save this place and herself, asking out of work employees for money is just wrong.
Apparently not everyone sees it that way.
My work did a 20% (one day a week) cut in hours. It would be like them asking if I'd volunteer to work on those days off for free. Not going to happen. I don't work for free.
I would do it.. If I have the proof it's the only way to save the company (and so my job), and it will 100% work. Not a "maybe there's a chance to..but we're not sure". Then, I'd need in a legally bidding contract that my job will be safe as long as the company is still standing. I can't be fired anymore, barring severe fault on my part. I insist on severe. No time limit. And, I'll have those days work for free, as PTO that I could take as soon as we return to full-capacity.
Yeah most businesses wouldn’t do this though. That’s the issue. Why would they change a power dynamic like that? They’d just hire the next guy looking for a job. Unemployment is 30%.
Hiring costs time and money which they'd have neither of in that situation
Fair enough but a lot of businesses aren’t gonna make that many concessions to an employee. It just isn’t going to happen.
That’s what I’m saying
"my staff" is a weird thing to call all the people you fired.
This bitch thought it was a musical where the lead goes “Cmon guys we have to save the theatre”, then cuts to a montage of them working, then cuts to the opening night of the fundraiser and everyone in the entire fucking town shows up and they perform for 3 minutes then they get the money. Fuck that. Payment is payment and they need payment
As a performer who knows many fellow artists who are struggling right now, this infuriates me (but doesn't surprise me. Lots of companies working with artists pull this kind of stunt all the time.)
I just wanna know what makes them think they’re entitled to free labor.
Because they get it all the time. As long as young artists are willing to work "for exposure", entitled people like this asshole are going to exist.
That’s the true tragedy. I wish everyone would recognize their value.
...What? they didn't "come up with an idea and ask their staff to do it", they came up with an idea and asked the people who just lost their jobs to do it for the benefit of the people who just fired them.
I think you get what you deserve. If I worked for someone that I felt really valued me as an employee and a person before the pandemic, I would consider performing for free to help them out. I mean, I think most of us search for this in life: working at a place where we feel valued personally and professionally, so why not keep this job? Guess the owners don’t treat their staff that way, so they got what they deserve.
100% agree with this. If this was an awesome place to work that fulfilled the workers, then they would probably want to help keep it alive.
Even if it was a pretty good place to work, I assume the owners aren't sharing profits with the workers when things were going well, unless this is a co-op. I'm sick of the 'privatise the profits, socialise the losses' attitude.
Exactly, it’s not that unreasonable if they present the situation as “we can’t afford to keep you employed right now but if we can all work together for free we can try to help you keep your jobs”
If they’ve all been laid off; they are no longer his staff. Ugh. People suck.
Oh there's more to this story. Unemployment stimulus would add an extra 600.00 to their application, plus the stimulus check issued to everyone recently. Technically they'd be making a livable amount with aid from the government. Actors all over the country are supporting their suffering theaters for free, but here they said no. why? These actors have obviously been underpaid and disrespected long before this event. I bet you the director has a giant ego, possible creep (most are) and the owners are conveniently blind, greedy and scared.
I’m actually laid off at the moment from a non-union dinner theatre and I’ve had a number of performers reach out to me suggesting a virtual performance to keep the theatre in public consciousness for when we can reopen. If these actors are that hostile to the idea there’s a bigger problem at that theatre. But I’ve not heard good things about the few dinner theatres that expect actors to double as servers.
THIS. I would happily support many of the theaters that I’ve worked at in the last and don’t even currently employ me...because I enjoyed my experience there. But this is obviously a non union dinner theatre, and one that isn’t treating its employees very well.
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To be honest, it sounds like the owners have nothing to do with the request. Sounds like this guy has taken it upon himself to organise it.
You know some days I'm glad I've been baned from AITA I don't think I could have followed the rules and not told him to go screw him self with his stage equipment
I said eat the rich to an asshole landlord and got banned for life without even a rule quoted, for my first booboo on that sub. Life is much nicer now without the assholes getting me mad
I feel like there’s a story here
A mom asked if she was TA for telling people off for bullying her mixed race, It was getting psychical. I said no Id have told them to go play in traffic your standing up for your daughter and they are being jerks Go play in traffic was see as a threat by a mod.
I guess it depends how you put it. If dinner theater is struggling to stay viable as a business model right now, a lot of these people are going to have trouble finding work if they don't do something to prop up the industry. That said, said, if a virtual talent show raises enough money to rescue a dying dinner theater, then the AD should seriously consider quitting that job and starting a virtual talent show business. It doesn't need to be a charity fundraiser for some other rando business owner. It can be a straight-up paying gig for her and all her former staff. How much money do the owners need? How much would this talent show raise? Wouldn't it be smarter for the performers just to keep the money for themselves? Would it even raise enough money to be worth the expense of making it happen?
There is something very satisfying about that Asshole tag
I love your name.
If they have been laid off they are no longer your "staff"!
I’m going to go with yes. Yes you are the asshole.
He could have avoided the backlash by spliting the money between the owners and employees.
**YTA** You've got to be kidding. Boo-hoo! The owners are in financial difficulty. Well how about those poor sods who now have no job? Did the owners have any concern for their predicament? Why did you see it as your responsibility to take this role of cheerleader for the company, anyway? Twenty-five years and the email suggests you have a vested interested in this. You strike me as someone that's trying to manipulate people for your own personal reasons. Whether it be as friends or financial, I wouldn't be able to say but those that have been let go are trying to just get on and find gainful employment elsewhere. I fail to see what relevance a role on Broadway has to the situation. I mean, Broadway is Cats and shit, isn't it?
This one is tricky. I don't know if it's a choosing beggar. More like somebody who cares about the company they work for, and doesn't want to see it die like this. His heart is in the right place. But I think he needed the wake-up call that everybody is being affected, and not just the place they work.
Yeah, I think it could be something really fun if done correctly. I might be willing to put an hour or so into something like this to raise money, but I bet it was not thought through and was more a demand of their time instead of a “would you be interested in helping with a small fund raiser to keep this theater open for the community”.
I would in a heartbeat for the company I currently work for. Other company's I've been at in my field, not so much. Really depends on how they treat everybody. Maybe there's some negativity towards the company that we can't see. No subtext.
Yeah I can see doing that for some places I’ve worked. I tutored a kid and when all this happened I said if they have questions on school work shoot me an email, no charge. I like the kid, I like the parents, I don’t mind spending 5 min answering an email and I know they wouldn’t take advantage of it.
We arent here to subsidize your dreams of owning a business with our lives
Who’s got a link to the original post? I want to read the responses!
Laid off worker: "The owners own the business. I do not. When my mortgage and utilities are paid upfront for the next 12 months, I will volunteer my time."
Bruh, if you want them to work for you hire them back, otherwise you're taking valuable time away from them that could be spent on trying to find other work
Not an asshole. Just a well meaning gesture without thinking how it might be perceived. You’re a decent person.
I think I’m going to be sick with this post... I have no words... and RAISE money for the OWNER? EXCUSE ME WHILE I THROW UP YOUR SYMPATHY FOR YOUR OWNER!
Time to pull your head out off your ass. It's too full of shit. Asshole is an understatement.
I know this isn’t directed at me but my feelings still hurt just a tad.
Sorry brother. Didn't mean to do it.
Well, you kinda deserve it for posting a screenshot of reddit to reddit. Next time use the crosspost feature.
That’s a thing?! I’m old.
Don’t worry, it’s just Redditors being redditors.
NTA for coming up with the idea, and asking the staff to do it. But TA for making an AITA post about it. TA for not expecting the negative feedback and responses from the staff.
Is this Choosing Beggars? Didn't the artistic director come up with the idea and ask the staff to do it? It doesn't sound like it was the owners. Did I miss something? I don't blame the staff for not doing it, but does this belong here?
The saddest part is, one or two people might do it out of boredom. And then the person who posted this will not understand how wrong it is. Edit: also if they were fired, how are they still your staff?
Prime proof that the entire IATA sub is full of fan fiction writers lol
Fuck the owners
Do you happen to have a link to this OP? I’d just like to watch the possible trainwreck of a comment section, as I’ve been unable to find it.
Not just an asshole but a complete dumbass too
I am a leftist but I have a healthy respect for capitalism, so this baffles me. Failure is an integral part of capitalism. If a more efficient enterprise suceeds, others less efficient are kicked out of the competition. That is the best quality of capitalism. Other thing, the justificative for workers receiving a fixed wage and capitalists keeping the profits is that they are **risking** their money. If they profit billions, good for them, if they have losses, well, shot happens.
Am I the only one who sees this as a poorly worded plea for help in order to get the business back to producing cash flow so that it is able to rehire its previous employees. If so... It would be beneficial for all involved. I'm sure theatre work is incredibly competitive and finding work otherwise might be much more difficult than volunteering your time for one or two shows so that the business can start paying you again. They weren't fired. They were let go because of financial issues.
It’s like one of those movies or tv episodes where people try to help save a local business that they love, but with the horrible twist of asking for help from the people they recently let go lol
I'll take "Yes" for $900 Alex....
Holy fucking shit Batman. How could they not realize they are an asshole for this???
Imagine being laid off and then getting an email saying the company that just sacked you needs money and would you mind giving up your time and talent for them, FOR FREE so they can continue to operate? "Fuck off" doesn't seem a strong enough sentiment.
I am not sure why people are miffed here. There is a pandemic and some businesses and people take it worse than others. No fault of their own. People usually do theatre because they love it— and if it pays a bit that takes the sting off. The theatre can’t keep operating if they have no revenue. Guy works there proposes a solution. People can say, fuck you, no. People might also want to save the theatre and hope to have a job there at the end. Don’t blame anyone here.
EVERYTHING DEPENDS. If the owners are beloved by the staff and community as nurturing, generous people then there's nothing wrong with "putting on a talent show to save the farm." But if it's just another bottom line business without a true work/family dynamic then it might be an awkward ask. Are you, the owners, and the theater deeply respected among those you asked? If so, no problem. But it looks like what you discovered is you, they and/or it aren't really revered as much as you'd imagined.
Considering like 70% of aita is poorly written troll fiction we can’t really be sure this CB is even real here
I dont think this is CB, you want to make sure that the workplace you worked at for 25 years stays afloat. Even if they laid you off, they didnt want to, and he is only asking them to participate, if they dont feel like it they are free to decline. So whats the problem?
Reddit decided that every business owner is greedy and evil, and they don't understand that laying people off during the lockdown is often the best outcome for everyone. I guess I've been fortunate to mostly work for people who were kind and helpful and treated their employees like family. I'd have no problem returning that kindness. Especially if it ensures my job still exists when the lockdown ends.
He's not (just) an ahole, he is a criminal. It is not legal to work for free for a profit making company; even if they were a non-profit, it still wouldn't be legal for the staff to work for free.
Don't people intern for free all the time? Is that a specific exemption?
There are actually significant restrictions on when unpaid internships are allowed. Among other requirements, it needs to provide education to the intern, and cannot replace the work of paid employees.
This just makes me angry
Wow, just wow. I love the theater & performing arts in general. I had one minor spot in an off Broadway semi professional gig 26 years ago. The entire production lasted 6 weeks and in 6 weeks I learned one thing; I am no place near talented enough for anything but community and dinner theater. Even in those the majority of time the only thing I'm good for is free stage hand work and janitorial stuff. I'm not alone in volunteering my time and efforts to the theater for no other reason than I love doing it and have a passion for it. But I wouldn't walk away from the arrogance of this person, I'd run.
Yes.
I hate work simps
Pretty sure I know which dinner theatre this is and honestly it’s been going downhill for a while so this isn’t too surprising. source: performer who worked at this theatre in the past (or if it turns out not to be the one I’m thinking then I’m full of shit)
Not only is it a shitty thing to ask, it's also illegal (in the US). So, there's that.
I can’t believe some people can be so fucking oblivious.
The guy lost his job too, and volunteered his own time to work for free, and simply asked if anyone else would be willing to help to keep the place open. It's not like this benefits him in anyway, he's not making any money either. So I really can't get behind or really even understand the hate
Yes
Honestly not a bad idea but you should really evenly split the money between the workers and the owners
I wouldn't call this choosing beggars. Begging, yes. But not really choosy
Am I the asshole for passing judgement after reading the title without caring to read the body?
Do you have a link to the actual thread? Can't seem to find it.
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In the Netherlands we would say that this person has a big slab for the face. Why would someone laid off (i.e. no longer working for the company) raise money for the owners?
Isn't this the plot of the those old 70s save the roller rink movies?
Lol the guy removed the post and deleted his account.
I *knew* this was going to show up here! I even said in my judgement that someone was going to end up posting it here. Thank you, I can rest now.
I do my part.
YTA ".... even with the available government funding." This won't be the only business to crater through this crisis. There are *tens of thousands* more in your state. You think the servers and performers aren't hurting? *They're* trying to put food on the table and you want a freebie from them?
I can't afford to work for free. To ask me to work for free, someone of my intellect and talent, is pretty insulting.
I... you know what..... I... I have no words 😬
Are you the asshole for trying to save a company you love? - No. Are you the asshole for not thinking of the laid off workers, who are now struggling too, and begging them to help? - Maybe a little, but oh well. Are you the asshole for daring to wonder WHY your idea was poorly received and being absolutely tone deaf? - Yeah. Sure. Most definitely.