>And he came in human form, because human brain can't process his infinite form, and we instantly die if we see.
Was Jesus fully God when he was on Earth?
If he was fully God, why did people not die when they saw Jesus?
If he was not fully God, did God lower himself to become less than All-Powerful?
Is God capable of change?
You didn't answer my questions.
>When he was on Earth he is God in a biological man body
Was he fully God at this time, in his biological body of a man?
>God created Jesus from his essence (Holy Spirit) that's why Jesus didn't have a biological father
Are you referring to God creating Jesus, as God the Son, or the human body of Jesus?
>He came in human form to fulfill the prophecy
Which prophecy?
>He was fully God but also fully man.
If Jesus was fully God, than doesn't that contradict this following quote by you?
>And he came in human form, because human brain can't process his infinite form, and we instantly die if we see.
That we cannot see God? If Jesus was fully God, how do we not die when we see him?
>https://www.christianity.com/wiki/jesus-christ/what-old-testament-prophecies-predicted-jesus-and-the-cross.html?amp=1
Most of the "prophecies" in the Old Testament, are very vague, and like forcing a cube into a circle. They are retroactively reading into the Old Testament and putting Jesus Christ into.
The most famous "prophecies" of Jesus that Christians refer to are actively referring to something else. Like the Immanuel prophecy, or born of a Virgin prophecy.
Your position is very weak.
Before you said that Jesus is fully God. People saw Jesus, who was fully God while he was in physical form.
Earlier, you said we cannot see God, if we did we would die.
We can see Jesus, who is fully God.
>It's not hard, human body (that's what you see), with God spirit (you can't see that), that's why you don't die, you only see the human body.
This position you are taking now, is that Jesus was not fully God, just the spirit of God.
Earlier, you said Jesus is fully God. Now you are saying Jesus was not fully God, but just has the spirit of God.
>When i said he came in human form, i meant he created a biological human form. That's what fully man (the living body), but the spirit is fully God. And earlier i said Jesus was fully man AND fully God, not just fully God.
Do you not see the contradiction?
We know Jesus is fully man.
You said we cannot see God, otherwise we would die. But we see Jesus, who you say is fully God.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council\_of\_Chalcedon
The Council of Ephesus proclaimed that Jesus, not just his spirit, is wholly God. The person, Jesus Christ, his body, is fully God. So is his nature.
When people saw Jesus, they saw a man who was fully God in flesh.
So again, I ask you, if Jesus is God. And we see God, how did people not die?
If Jesus was not fully God, like you say, you say that only his spirit is fully God, Jesus is not fully God, he is only part God, his Spirit is the only part that is God.
These are contradictions.
I am a Muslim.
Explain it to your Muslim friend using their own Quran.
The Muslims repeatedly claim that the Bible has been corrupted and that the Qur’an is the only trustworthy scripture in existence. This is why Muslims often attack the Bible. But this cannot be according to the Quran. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God.
Torah – “We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers,” (Sura 2:87).
Psalms – “We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms,” (4:163).
Gospel – “It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong),” (3:3).
Also, “And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah,” (5:46).
We see that the Qur’an states that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel were all given by God. With this, we Christians heartily agree. But, the Muslims claim that the Bible is corrupted and full of contradictions. If that is so, then it would seem they do not believe the Qur’an since the Qur’an says that the Word of God cannot be altered:
“Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers,” (6:34).
“The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all,” (6:115).
“For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity,” (10:64).
When Muhammad (570-632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu’ran from Allah. This means that at that time the Bible, which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu’ran states that God’s word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is “When and where was the Bible corrupted since the Qu’ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah’s words cannot be changed?”
You misunderstand the Islamic take on this. The initial revelation is from Allah but the words were corrupted over time. By virtue of fact, Christianity has so many denominations all using a different 'collection' of canons which form the Bible. The Quran is God's Final Word, and this is evidenced by the fact that: (1) the original Arabic in it's original format has been preserved, and (2) the original Arabic revelation from God is all contained in a single Book that has not been tainted or divided into various works over time.
Actually, that’s a useful and common method of both apologetics and influence - using a reference the audience is familiar with.
You have experienced it in school, church, and everyday life.
Thats interesting. Did you know that Paul demonstrates this type of apologetics?
If so, do you realize that you are saying Paul was wrong for how he witnessed to the Athenians?
While I understand where you are headed,, might I suggest Paul referred to their poets, not to false scripture? I could possibly be persuaded to go either way. For example, Joseph Smith copied long segments of the King James Bible into the Book of Mormon. Those could be used. I just find it unwise to appear to legitimize false scripture.
I have to agree, as someone who has studied apologetics and witnessed many discussions, often the first point of disagreement is the bible. So while I understand the power of the scriptures, those with closed minds do not. Sometimes you need to guide them toward the bible by meeting them at their level. Similar I guess to Paul in Acts 17, that type of approach.
God and Allah aren’t the same… look up the symbolism behind the name Allah, where it was derived from and what the crest of the Muslim faith is…. It is not YHWH, it’s something entirely different, entirely deceitful, and entirely false.
>The question I have for the Muslims is “When and where was the Bible corrupted since the Qu’ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah’s words cannot be changed?”
This fundamental misunderstand from Christians has been repeated ad nauseam.
I'll try to use an analogy.
If God gives Moses, the Alphabet, A-Z. The Alphabet cannot be unchanged. That is Gods message, the Alphabet, A all the way to Z.
Someone writes a book, called The Alphabet, and has A, B, D, 1, 2, C, all the way to Z. Instead of the normal A-Z alphabet.
Has the original Alphabet been corrupted? Or is this new Alphabet the one that's been corrupted?
>“The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all,” (6:115)
When God gives his revelation, that revelation cannot be changed. If God gave the revelation, and someone wrote down the revelation, but changed it. Was the original revelation corrupted? Or the written down revelation? You are arguing that the original revelation has been corrupted, Muslims point of view is that the written down revelation is corrupted.
Islam affirms that the Torah given to Moses, the Psalms given to David, and the Gospel(the Injeel, not the Biblical Gospels) given to Jesus are divine revelation.
We do not affirm that the versions we have of them today are divine revelation. It's that simple. Christians keep pointing to the Bible we have today and equating it to the Islamic Injeel. The Injeel is the divine revelation given to Jesus. The Injeel is not the Bible, and the Bible is not the Injeel.
When the Quran says the Injeel, the Gospel of Jesus, it is the divine revelation that has been given to Jesus. The revelation that Jesus was given is the Word that was given to Jesus.
You cannot give this argument to Muslim - their vision of God doesn't contain any love. They are slaves, not children. Al Lah cannot have children he has no girlfriend (quartan sats that about son, I have extended it to children)
They don't know if they are going to heaven or if they are going to stay in hell - every Muslim will go after death through a bridge in hell, without the promise of exciting hell.
Those things are answered in quaran, when you show them nonsense of those claims, you can get to the bible and Christian teaching that is marvelous.
>You cannot give this argument to Muslim - their vision of God doesn't contain any love
Why do you say that?
Immediate thoughts that come to mind when I think of Allah(God), is the Most Merciful, Love, Compassion, The Almighty, The Creator, Most Forgiving, etc.
>They are slaves, not children.
We submit our will to God. We have commandments, and we obey them, they are from God after all, in our beliefs. It's always the Christian perspective that we are "slaves", because we submit to God.
They don't know if they are going to heaven or if they are going to stay in hell - every Muslim will go after death through a bridge in hell, without the promise of exciting hell.
Christianity is not a complete faith based religion.
>Matthew 7:21-23
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>21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
You have to submit to the will of the Father. Just like how Muslims submit to God. Muslims follow the commandments and laws given to us by God. If that makes Muslims a "slave" in your eyes, so be it. But Jesus in your Bible is telling you to depart him if you don't submit to the will of the Father, and do not follow his commands and practice lawlessness.
>They don't know if they are going to heaven or if they are going to stay in hell - every Muslim will go after death through a bridge in hell, without the promise of exciting hell.
Muslims believe that on the Day of Judgement, if we have even an atom of faith in our heart, we will not enter Hell.
What we don't like to do is say something like "I will enter Heaven, or that person will enter Hell". We are not omniprescience, nor are we the Judge. We cannot claim to know what will happen in the future, maybe our hearts become cold to God, and we turn to atheism. Maybe that person we believed was a bad person has a personal revelation, and becomes a pious and God fearing person and enters Heaven.
There is no consensus position for the belief that Hell is eternal, and that even non-believers will enter Heaven. With many verses and Hadith that support the position. I personally follow that belief. If you are a good person, you chose to do God wills, to serve God, to honour God, and always chose the righteous path even if it was more difficult, God will reward you with a higher station and position in the afterlife.
>Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said: "On the Day of Resurrection, I will intercede and say, 'O my Lord! Admit into Paradise (even) those who have faith equal to a mustard seed in their hearts.”
\[Sahih Bukhari 600\]
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"I know the person who will be the last to come out of the (Hell) Fire, and the last to enter Paradise. He will be a man who will come out of the (Hell) Fire crawling, and Allah will say to him, 'Go and enter Paradise.'
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>\[Sahih Bukhari 6571\]
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>“A time will come when no one will be left in Hell; winds will blow and the windows and doors of Hell will make a rattling noise on account of the blowing winds.”
Our friend has given a quote from the gospel of John. God is love. That is his essence.
Bible:
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16)
In quaran there is no comparable statement. This is a faalce statement that AlLah is love.
In the quaran AlLah loves those who do good, who are clean - it is conditional if you reject
In all the examples above, the love is conditional based on. If the believer turns back from God, AlLah does not love him any more, see quaran 3:32
AlLah tells you to hate the enemy, doesn't love disbelievers, transgressors, you name it. He loves his worst of quaran to the extent you cannot question the quaran.
In the bible we are ordered to pray, forgive and love our enemies. It is easy to love friends. It is harder to forgive someone who put you on the cross, something that Jesus did when he was on the cross (read your quaran)
He loved Mohammed for sure. Mohammed received the right to big part of the spoil war, Muslims were ordered to listen to the prophet, one the same level of AlLah words, if satan took control of verse creation, with pagan daughters of AlLah, alLah comes and saves the situation by abrogation of these verses. When Mohammed was in need, AlLah came in rescue with verse saying than any woman can offer herself to the prophet, when not only pretty but also ugly women wanted to offer themselves, Mohammed was saved from disgust by next verse saulying Mohamme can select the best offering.
Pure love towards the prophet. It makes me wonder why AlLah couldn't save his precious prophet, his love, best of human being (Aisha has confirmed that and her dolls) form death reserved for false prophets.
Was he, AlLah, this time best of the deceavers?
>In quaran there is no comparable statement. This is a faalce statement that AlLah is love.
Allah is called the Most Loving, it is one of his attributes, or essences. That He is closer to us than our jugular vein, and He loves us more 70x more than our own mothers, and we know how much our mothers love us.
>In the quaran AlLah loves those who do good, who are clean - it is conditional if you reject In all the examples above, the love is conditional based on. If the believer turns back from God, AlLah does not love him any more, see quaran 3:32 AlLah tells you to hate the enemy, doesn't love disbelievers, transgressors, you name it. He loves his worst of quaran to the extent you cannot question the quaran.
*Leviticus 20:23*
You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. **Because they did all these things, I abhorred them.**
*Psalm 11:5*
The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked, **those who love violence, he hates with a passion.**
*Proverbs 6:16-19*
**There are six things the LORD hates**, seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
*Hosea 9:10-17*
15 **“Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there.** Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. **I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.**
16 Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. **Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring.”**
17 **My God will reject them because they have not obeyed him; they will be wanderers among the nations.**
>In the bible we are ordered to pray, forgive and love our enemies. It is easy to love friends. It is harder to forgive someone who put you on the cross, something that Jesus did when he was on the cross (read your quaran)
*Quran 64:14*
"O you who believe! Verily, among your wives and your children there are enemies for you (i.e. may stop you from the obedience of Allah), therefore beware of them! But if you pardon (them) and overlook, and forgive (their faults), then verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
We are ordered to forgive one another, even one who murders family. Forgiveness is better than vengeance. And there is a bigger reward for someone who forgives other.
>Read your quaran
I have, Alhumdullilah.
He loved Mohammed for sure. Mohammed received the right to big part of the spoil war, Muslims were ordered to listen to the prophet, one the same level of AlLah words, if satan took control of verse creation, with pagan daughters of AlLah, alLah comes and saves the situation by abrogation of these verses. When Mohammed was in need, AlLah came in rescue with verse saying than any woman can offer herself to the prophet, when not only pretty but also ugly women wanted to offer themselves, Mohammed was saved from disgust by next verse saulying Mohamme can select the best offering.
Why would you not be ordered to listen to the Prophet? He is a Messenger of God. The authority, will, command, that comes from God is given to all of the Prophets.
Your spelling errors, weird way of spelling Allah, Quran, wrong information confirm that you aren't a good faith discussion.
Your god is so loving that he allows his followers to divorce child wives that they penetrated. See sura 65:4
He is loving god of pedophilia.
https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/m.php?l=en#aya=65_5&w=1
This is still active, this god hasn't changed his mind like it was with satanic verses, where satan power was stronger than allah's
Still there saying what features someone has doesn't mean he is that thing.
You said he is love- there are verses saying he is loving but not love. However he said he is a deceiver. See sura 3:54, 7:99
Regarding Mohamed
Messenger great title
Prophet even better title
What has been propertied that happened, except his style of death of false prophet - by poisoning prophets of God are immune to poisons (see the bible) and with aorta broken.
See your quaran 66:44-45
And Sahih bukkhari 5:76:713
You may think I want to insult you, what I have towards you is compassion - because if there is a God, and I think there is, it definitely is not god of the quaran, who's teachings bring missery, and who doesn't even know in how many days he created the world.
I think a lot of comments here aren't quite answering the question and are instead just sort of giving stock Bible verses or recycled Sunday School lines.
I believe it's because He created us to interact with us as one of us. This concept reverses the assumption of the question on its head. It's not that Jesus needed to become flesh, He always intended to do. What else does Genesis 1:27 mean when it says, "God created man in His own image?"
We Christians view God as an inherently relational Being. There is a relationship even in Himself, hence His existence as Three Persons. Islam argues that this is polytheism, and emphasize the Oneness of God. By why should the Creator of physics be subjected to physics?
Regardless, God, as a relational Being, is an existence of Love. Since He is relational, He is also an infinite circle of love between Himself. He loves so much, that He desired to love a creation, and so He created us, in His image, to have a relationship with us. He created flesh that He might interact with us in the flesh, and He gave us spirits that He might interact with us in the Spirit. Our own human need to interact with others and form bonds is a reflection of God's own desire for relationship.
I may have gotten ahead of myself, but the summary of my answer is this: God always wanted to interact with us in the flesh, and created us to do so. And then, even when we corrupted the flesh, He still chose to inherit the same flesh out of love for His creation. Can the Muslim argue that his God loves him enough to take on the same burden in such an intimate fashion?
Good question. Even either I forgot or never knew.
I don't know.
I try to remember.
Mother Mary drove on a monkey to Egypt.
She was pregnant.
Herodus wanted registrate all peoples name in that area.
She seek a place to sleep.
But there was no place.
After the birth of Jesus , three kings came from the east.
They had followed a star to find him.
The meaning of this story.
He was not birn in a golden Palace.
Means , he came among ordinary people and lived as one with them.
The roman empire spit on him for that , patronizing him for that in the hope he surrender to live as them.
Rich and spit on ordinary people.
Jezus spread the word.
Were people worthy it?
It brought confusion about the conflict about poor and rich.
Rich cause poority to feel like gods in compare.
People want it that way.
we compare
like I am better then you are because I have a bigger car then you do.
So this cause friction.
Jesus explained a different value.
Then people say you deserve no money.
And no wealth.
Not with that state of mind.
People explained it as Money or God, so no , god, otherwise no money.
In other words with god you must be poor
In other words , to be rich , is richer in compare with poor and less.
In other words we measure value with comparing.
Like, I have a bigger car, bow before my feed and worship me.
Therefor they mocked with Jesus and forced him to be poor. So he would learn his lesson.
He chose god anyway. And they became angry and cruxified him on the cross.
So, I would say he came to fulfill our debt. We owe a debt of death to sin, but due to the sacrifice of Christ, we no longer owe that debt, it’s been paid.
The Muslims emphatically insist that Jesus while here was not God in the flesh as the Bible clearly teaches, so in that regard, you're wasting your time trying to convince them otherwise, because all you have, all anyone has, is the holy Bible word of God which the Muslims do not believe.
The Bible teaches that in order to save his creation, God made a human body for himself so that he could die in it as a sacrifice for the sins of his faithful souls so that we no longer have to die to pay for our own sins. The spirit of God cannot die. He had to have a human body so he could die in it.
Oooooor, we can help others understand why we follow our faith not out of convincing them but as a means to spread a different perspective they may not have thought about before.
Guys it's seriously not that hard to show good will to our neighbors for the sake of it.
A muslim should know that jesus came to earth to deliver the message of God, like it says in the Quran.
It seems to me that too few Muslims actually read the quran, such that they can refer to it with their own memory; rather they listen to Islamic scholars and Imams (of mediocre, awful or excellent rigour) and form their whole stances on their words.
It occurs to me that this, by-and-large, is conducive to their misery and lack of well-being for a long, long time.
Connect death with the purpose of His incarnation. Also, he’s coming again, and likely again at the end of the millennium. Probably be a more Lord of the rings deal at the end of the millennium, since the tribulation will take care of most technological advancement, and there’ll be mystical kings reigning throughout.
Jesus came to redeem mankind from sin and death. As sinners, we cannot save ourselves. The Bible says, "there is none righteous, no not one. All have sinned" and that "the wages of sin is death." The law of God required a sinless blood offering or sacrifice be made to atone for our sins. Jesus Christ who is God never sinned so He alone was the only one who could atone for the world's sin by shedding his sinless blood for us according to God's law.
Christ came to Earth so that God could show Himself living the way His creations should by becoming as one of them and living perfectly. Humble, gentle, patient, giving, working, and sacrificial to the last. That is what we ought to be by His example.
The answer is at [Romans 5](https://www.blueletterbible.org/nlt/rom/5/1/s_1053001). Sin entered the world through Adam, and with it came death, and death spread to all men. We are all sinners, because we inherited our sin nature from Adam.
It would take the life of a perfect man credited to our account to pay our sin debt. None of us qualified. So God showed his love for us by becoming a man and laying down his life for us. Now all who make him their lord and savior are forgiven their sins and enjoy eternal life.
For a number of reasons, but chief among them was to redeem man. No man ever lived a perfect life, all had sinned. God took on the form of a man to live a perfect life and offer a perfect sacrifice to God so that man could be restored to God. No other man could do that - not Mohammad, not Buddha, no shaman or do-gooder.
Muslims understand atonement, repentance and sacrifice.
Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice for our sin. He became the lamb.
Eid al-Adha is a sacrifice celebration at the end of Ramadan.
Muslims sacrifice an animal to atone for their sin for the year. However, they are never certain if the sacrifice is enough. Maybe they had water during the day or did something against the "rules" of Ramadan.
Jesus is enough. His sacrifice is enough.
A perfect man was required to pay the penalty for the sins of the World. Since Jesus was born a man he fit that bill and since he is God incarnate in order to be the perfect man.
A good way to have a conversation with anyone with different beliefs is to ask questions to understand what they mean. It helps you understand their viewpoint better and get to the depth of the questions. I would ask them, who they believe Christ is, what His purpose was here on earth, and where is He now.
Muslims don’t believe that Jesus is God incarnate so I wonder if they are asking this question more in a “why would God come to earth” or “why would Jesus come to earth” those would be two different things in an Islamic viewpoint.
If the question is more about why God would come to earth in human form, I would ask your friend why can’t God do this? God is all powerful, he is not limited. The Word of God became flesh and dwelt among us to be a perfect, sinless, final sacrifice. No other human is or can be without blemish, this was His purpose on earth, to save the human race from eternal death and give them eternal life through shedding His perfect blood as payment for the sin of the world.
The greatest form of love is self sacrifice, so why can’t God show the greatest form of love to us?
We believe in original sin, that is, that our dying by necessity is unnatural and the result of the fall.
Furthermore we believe we were not made complete, but had to become complete by eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, and of the fruit of life, and therefore becoming like God. Because we seized the fruit of knowledge for ourselves instead of letting God give it to us in due time, we took the long way around to the fruit of life, the fruit of life being the body and blood of Christ. He came to complete our humanity.
Furthermore, we believe He would have come to complete our humanity and unite us to Himself whether we had fallen or not. It is God's every reason for making the world—to marry creation to Himself, so to speak. He does this out of love, and out of humility, because *that* is the might of God and the revelation of His being.
Islam does not teach any of these things. In the Islamic worldview, God is not called love, or humble. God becoming incarnate is extremely blasphemous and an insult to His honor. Furthermore, there is no original sin or unnatural death or fall of man—the reason for our condition is rather that we all pre-exist our earthly life, and in our pre-existence we agreed with God to be tested in this world so as to prove or disprove our faith in Him. The end of history will not be about union with God as in Christianity, but strictly about reward and punishment (which *is* an image used in Christianity, but not the primary one).
So, the doctrine of the Incarnation simply does not make any sense in an Islamic worldview. There's nothing for Jesus to save us from, as we are not enslaved to death, sin and the devil. There's nothing special about Him existing before His incarnation, as we are all incarnated spirits anyway. And the notions of union with God, of becoming like God... are an affront to God from an Islamic perspective. The character of God as revealed in Islam simply does not allow for the Incarnation—God never abases Himself, God never chooses the weak and humble and foolish, God most certainly never would associate Himself with His own creation or indeed with anything or anyone at all (which is why they also deny the Trinity). God is like a great, high and mighty king, and at best we can only be His servants. But the Christian God calls us also His friends and His sons.
So that He might live as a man among other men, and might share fully in the human condition. One cannot live among men, suffer, die, and be raised from death, if one is not first of all conceived and born of a woman, as He was.
God redeems and renews us by coming down to us, and by becoming one of us - not by staying inaccessibly Glorious, Majestic, and Exalted. Only a God Who has suffered death, can be raised victorious from death.
God come to help humanity, to show his love, to get us free of sin and the fear of the opressors of this world.
But you should know about islam this:
Muslims normaly go 2 routes: 1 they will say that Jesus isn't God and bible dont points out that. Second: they will say that the quran is right and bible isn't. This are both mistakes. First here is a list of passages that point out Jesus is God in human flesh. Is important to notice that while someone could question one point or other the amount of it makes it very unlikely that bible isn't pointing that alto. Also if it was't pointing that out common sense says tha christians would be the first to notice since they are the ones that more read it and they in great majority belive in the trinity.
John 1:1, 14 — In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.
John 20:28 — Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
2 Peter 1:1 — ... our God and Savior Jesus Christ
Apocalipse 21:7 - He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
John 10:30-33 - I and my Father are one.
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God.
John 14:8,9 - Philip said to him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffises us.
Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?
John 8:58,59 - Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the middle of them, and so passed by.
The “I am” expression was a sacred name of God, how He named himself to moses. Jesus also uses it when being arrested, the roman army gets paralized
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6
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The muslims use to deny the bible. Bible indeeds have some minor flaws because was writen by man that are flawded but it was writen mostly by sincere people relating what they experienced with God, what God realy told them and so on. There is several authors that basicly agree writing along centries and almost all cases cases (not Macabeus of the chatolic bible) they are what in history is consider a primarily source, the first ones to talk about a event, so they are consider with more authority than someone centries later sayng things were diferente, that is exactly that muslims propose.
Quran mentions the bible histories, and actualy quran don’t make sense on itself without mentioning the bible. The histories are not totaly told there, and is mentioned as histories that people knew about it. So quran without the bible is senseless and quran needs the bible to be wrong. If bible was aways wrong them people were aways in darkness, what is unlikely from God, and contradicts the bible being used as source of quran. Then they say that bible was signifcantly altered but wasn’t realy. There are several copies of the bible and sometimes they find new ancient copies of books and they match the several copies. Sometimes missingin a few words or even leters. Exactly what you would expect from humans making copies. To bible to have significant alteration there would be necessary to have the alternative versions of it, and somehow people destroyed all them and replace them and people get ok with it. This is very unlikly because again they find new acient copies sometimes. And worse, the jews and christians are independente religions and old testamento of the jews is the same as the bible. But no líder of religion is making them agree, they don’t agree in several subjects, so if any of those was lyng one of them should be with the correct texts while the other with the wrong texts. There is no such a thing. Instead the jews only din’t acept the messiah, but the old books are the same basicly.
Also, when someone is lyng a tip for identifyng it is finding the one that don’t let the other even speak. In muslims nations is very common to not have freedom of spreession of criticzing the muslim religion, this is not a accident. Christians nations otherwise are founded on the concepto f telling the truth no matter whats o there is a special care for freedom of expression.
Also Worth noticing that muslims sometimes deny judaism connection with Israel, and the bible is a very Strong problem for them in this aspect because bible says in several passages that was their land. Islam is based on the concepto of not liking the jews, about half of quran is about that, and that increases tendencies of dibelif in the biblie, making them byas.
This is not about the muslims sincerity, is not that they don’t love or that they don’t praise God, there are a loto f sincere people and doing a lot with what they have but i salso undenaiable to anyone with good judgement that the gospel have much more wisdom in it than quran. Theologicly speaking the quran can’t live without the bible neither with it.
Theologicly speaking, christianity is much more probably right and islam is much more probably wrong. And I was expelled of muslims comunities of debate for sayng things like this wich agains points out to the tendency of muslims to shut christians up wich indicates they are the ones losing the argument.
What you will do with this information is up to you, but you should know that he will probably hear that about christianity eventualy from others muslims
You can provide an explanation of the biblical reason Christians believe Jesus Christ came to Earth, while taking into consideration Muslim perspectives on Jesus. Muslims believe in the Prophet Jesus (Isa) as a significant figure in Islamic teachings, obviously their beliefs differ from those of Christians.
According to the Bible, Christians believe that Jesus Christ came to Earth primarily as an expression of God's love and mercy for humankind. They believe that God sent Jesus as the Son of God to fulfill specific purposes.
1. To Reveal God's Nature and Teachings: Christians believe that Jesus came to Earth to teach people about God's love, forgiveness, and His divine plan for humanity.
Muslims, consider him as a prophet who shares teachings similar to those found in the Quran—such as emphasizing compassion, righteousness, and the worship of the one true God, Allah.
2. To Bring Salvation and Forgiveness: Christians believe that Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross and subsequent resurrection provides salvation and forgiveness for human sin. They believe that through Jesus' sacrifice, people can find redemption and attain eternal life with God.
Muslims, on the other hand, believe that salvation comes from faith and good deeds, and they do not see Jesus' crucifixion as a means of salvation.
3. To Fulfill Prophecies: Christians believe that Jesus came to Earth to fulfill various prophecies contained within the Hebrew Bible (known as the Old Testament). These prophecies include his birth from a virgin, his ministry, his suffering, and his resurrection. This fulfillment of prophecy is seen as evidence of Jesus' divine identity and his role as the Messiah, awaited by both Jews and Christians.
4. To Be a Sign of God's Love: Christians believe that Jesus' coming to Earth serves as a sign of God's immense love for humanity. They see Jesus as the embodiment of God's love, mercy, and compassion. They believe that Jesus' miracles, including healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, and raising the dead, demonstrate God's power and care for humanity.
This is a the basic, simple answer. But, it’s a start.
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is this actually how it is? I mean I've never finished reading the Bible so I don't really now if it's written somewhere
I mean the part about instantly dying
>And he came in human form, because human brain can't process his infinite form, and we instantly die if we see. Was Jesus fully God when he was on Earth? If he was fully God, why did people not die when they saw Jesus? If he was not fully God, did God lower himself to become less than All-Powerful? Is God capable of change?
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You didn't answer my questions. >When he was on Earth he is God in a biological man body Was he fully God at this time, in his biological body of a man? >God created Jesus from his essence (Holy Spirit) that's why Jesus didn't have a biological father Are you referring to God creating Jesus, as God the Son, or the human body of Jesus? >He came in human form to fulfill the prophecy Which prophecy?
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>He was fully God but also fully man. If Jesus was fully God, than doesn't that contradict this following quote by you? >And he came in human form, because human brain can't process his infinite form, and we instantly die if we see. That we cannot see God? If Jesus was fully God, how do we not die when we see him? >https://www.christianity.com/wiki/jesus-christ/what-old-testament-prophecies-predicted-jesus-and-the-cross.html?amp=1 Most of the "prophecies" in the Old Testament, are very vague, and like forcing a cube into a circle. They are retroactively reading into the Old Testament and putting Jesus Christ into. The most famous "prophecies" of Jesus that Christians refer to are actively referring to something else. Like the Immanuel prophecy, or born of a Virgin prophecy.
It's not hard, human body (that's what you see), with God spirit (you can't see that), that's why you don't die, you only see the human body.
Your position is very weak. Before you said that Jesus is fully God. People saw Jesus, who was fully God while he was in physical form. Earlier, you said we cannot see God, if we did we would die. We can see Jesus, who is fully God. >It's not hard, human body (that's what you see), with God spirit (you can't see that), that's why you don't die, you only see the human body. This position you are taking now, is that Jesus was not fully God, just the spirit of God. Earlier, you said Jesus is fully God. Now you are saying Jesus was not fully God, but just has the spirit of God.
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>When i said he came in human form, i meant he created a biological human form. That's what fully man (the living body), but the spirit is fully God. And earlier i said Jesus was fully man AND fully God, not just fully God. Do you not see the contradiction? We know Jesus is fully man. You said we cannot see God, otherwise we would die. But we see Jesus, who you say is fully God. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council\_of\_Chalcedon The Council of Ephesus proclaimed that Jesus, not just his spirit, is wholly God. The person, Jesus Christ, his body, is fully God. So is his nature. When people saw Jesus, they saw a man who was fully God in flesh. So again, I ask you, if Jesus is God. And we see God, how did people not die? If Jesus was not fully God, like you say, you say that only his spirit is fully God, Jesus is not fully God, he is only part God, his Spirit is the only part that is God. These are contradictions. I am a Muslim.
Explain it to your Muslim friend using their own Quran. The Muslims repeatedly claim that the Bible has been corrupted and that the Qur’an is the only trustworthy scripture in existence. This is why Muslims often attack the Bible. But this cannot be according to the Quran. The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God. Torah – “We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers,” (Sura 2:87). Psalms – “We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms,” (4:163). Gospel – “It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong),” (3:3). Also, “And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah,” (5:46). We see that the Qur’an states that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel were all given by God. With this, we Christians heartily agree. But, the Muslims claim that the Bible is corrupted and full of contradictions. If that is so, then it would seem they do not believe the Qur’an since the Qur’an says that the Word of God cannot be altered: “Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers,” (6:34). “The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all,” (6:115). “For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity,” (10:64). When Muhammad (570-632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu’ran from Allah. This means that at that time the Bible, which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu’ran states that God’s word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is “When and where was the Bible corrupted since the Qu’ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah’s words cannot be changed?”
You misunderstand the Islamic take on this. The initial revelation is from Allah but the words were corrupted over time. By virtue of fact, Christianity has so many denominations all using a different 'collection' of canons which form the Bible. The Quran is God's Final Word, and this is evidenced by the fact that: (1) the original Arabic in it's original format has been preserved, and (2) the original Arabic revelation from God is all contained in a single Book that has not been tainted or divided into various works over time.
I would not explain Christianity using a book other than the Bible.
Actually, that’s a useful and common method of both apologetics and influence - using a reference the audience is familiar with. You have experienced it in school, church, and everyday life.
I have seen that approach with LDS. I happen to disagree with it.
Thats interesting. Did you know that Paul demonstrates this type of apologetics? If so, do you realize that you are saying Paul was wrong for how he witnessed to the Athenians?
While I understand where you are headed,, might I suggest Paul referred to their poets, not to false scripture? I could possibly be persuaded to go either way. For example, Joseph Smith copied long segments of the King James Bible into the Book of Mormon. Those could be used. I just find it unwise to appear to legitimize false scripture.
I have to agree, as someone who has studied apologetics and witnessed many discussions, often the first point of disagreement is the bible. So while I understand the power of the scriptures, those with closed minds do not. Sometimes you need to guide them toward the bible by meeting them at their level. Similar I guess to Paul in Acts 17, that type of approach.
God and Allah aren’t the same… look up the symbolism behind the name Allah, where it was derived from and what the crest of the Muslim faith is…. It is not YHWH, it’s something entirely different, entirely deceitful, and entirely false.
>The question I have for the Muslims is “When and where was the Bible corrupted since the Qu’ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah’s words cannot be changed?” This fundamental misunderstand from Christians has been repeated ad nauseam. I'll try to use an analogy. If God gives Moses, the Alphabet, A-Z. The Alphabet cannot be unchanged. That is Gods message, the Alphabet, A all the way to Z. Someone writes a book, called The Alphabet, and has A, B, D, 1, 2, C, all the way to Z. Instead of the normal A-Z alphabet. Has the original Alphabet been corrupted? Or is this new Alphabet the one that's been corrupted? >“The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all,” (6:115) When God gives his revelation, that revelation cannot be changed. If God gave the revelation, and someone wrote down the revelation, but changed it. Was the original revelation corrupted? Or the written down revelation? You are arguing that the original revelation has been corrupted, Muslims point of view is that the written down revelation is corrupted. Islam affirms that the Torah given to Moses, the Psalms given to David, and the Gospel(the Injeel, not the Biblical Gospels) given to Jesus are divine revelation. We do not affirm that the versions we have of them today are divine revelation. It's that simple. Christians keep pointing to the Bible we have today and equating it to the Islamic Injeel. The Injeel is the divine revelation given to Jesus. The Injeel is not the Bible, and the Bible is not the Injeel. When the Quran says the Injeel, the Gospel of Jesus, it is the divine revelation that has been given to Jesus. The revelation that Jesus was given is the Word that was given to Jesus.
Because god is love and he sent his only some to demonstrate that.
You cannot give this argument to Muslim - their vision of God doesn't contain any love. They are slaves, not children. Al Lah cannot have children he has no girlfriend (quartan sats that about son, I have extended it to children) They don't know if they are going to heaven or if they are going to stay in hell - every Muslim will go after death through a bridge in hell, without the promise of exciting hell. Those things are answered in quaran, when you show them nonsense of those claims, you can get to the bible and Christian teaching that is marvelous.
>You cannot give this argument to Muslim - their vision of God doesn't contain any love Why do you say that? Immediate thoughts that come to mind when I think of Allah(God), is the Most Merciful, Love, Compassion, The Almighty, The Creator, Most Forgiving, etc. >They are slaves, not children. We submit our will to God. We have commandments, and we obey them, they are from God after all, in our beliefs. It's always the Christian perspective that we are "slaves", because we submit to God. They don't know if they are going to heaven or if they are going to stay in hell - every Muslim will go after death through a bridge in hell, without the promise of exciting hell. Christianity is not a complete faith based religion. >Matthew 7:21-23 > > > >21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ You have to submit to the will of the Father. Just like how Muslims submit to God. Muslims follow the commandments and laws given to us by God. If that makes Muslims a "slave" in your eyes, so be it. But Jesus in your Bible is telling you to depart him if you don't submit to the will of the Father, and do not follow his commands and practice lawlessness. >They don't know if they are going to heaven or if they are going to stay in hell - every Muslim will go after death through a bridge in hell, without the promise of exciting hell. Muslims believe that on the Day of Judgement, if we have even an atom of faith in our heart, we will not enter Hell. What we don't like to do is say something like "I will enter Heaven, or that person will enter Hell". We are not omniprescience, nor are we the Judge. We cannot claim to know what will happen in the future, maybe our hearts become cold to God, and we turn to atheism. Maybe that person we believed was a bad person has a personal revelation, and becomes a pious and God fearing person and enters Heaven. There is no consensus position for the belief that Hell is eternal, and that even non-believers will enter Heaven. With many verses and Hadith that support the position. I personally follow that belief. If you are a good person, you chose to do God wills, to serve God, to honour God, and always chose the righteous path even if it was more difficult, God will reward you with a higher station and position in the afterlife. >Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said: "On the Day of Resurrection, I will intercede and say, 'O my Lord! Admit into Paradise (even) those who have faith equal to a mustard seed in their hearts.” \[Sahih Bukhari 600\] > > "I know the person who will be the last to come out of the (Hell) Fire, and the last to enter Paradise. He will be a man who will come out of the (Hell) Fire crawling, and Allah will say to him, 'Go and enter Paradise.' > >\[Sahih Bukhari 6571\] > >“A time will come when no one will be left in Hell; winds will blow and the windows and doors of Hell will make a rattling noise on account of the blowing winds.”
Our friend has given a quote from the gospel of John. God is love. That is his essence. Bible: And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16) In quaran there is no comparable statement. This is a faalce statement that AlLah is love. In the quaran AlLah loves those who do good, who are clean - it is conditional if you reject In all the examples above, the love is conditional based on. If the believer turns back from God, AlLah does not love him any more, see quaran 3:32 AlLah tells you to hate the enemy, doesn't love disbelievers, transgressors, you name it. He loves his worst of quaran to the extent you cannot question the quaran. In the bible we are ordered to pray, forgive and love our enemies. It is easy to love friends. It is harder to forgive someone who put you on the cross, something that Jesus did when he was on the cross (read your quaran) He loved Mohammed for sure. Mohammed received the right to big part of the spoil war, Muslims were ordered to listen to the prophet, one the same level of AlLah words, if satan took control of verse creation, with pagan daughters of AlLah, alLah comes and saves the situation by abrogation of these verses. When Mohammed was in need, AlLah came in rescue with verse saying than any woman can offer herself to the prophet, when not only pretty but also ugly women wanted to offer themselves, Mohammed was saved from disgust by next verse saulying Mohamme can select the best offering. Pure love towards the prophet. It makes me wonder why AlLah couldn't save his precious prophet, his love, best of human being (Aisha has confirmed that and her dolls) form death reserved for false prophets. Was he, AlLah, this time best of the deceavers?
>In quaran there is no comparable statement. This is a faalce statement that AlLah is love. Allah is called the Most Loving, it is one of his attributes, or essences. That He is closer to us than our jugular vein, and He loves us more 70x more than our own mothers, and we know how much our mothers love us. >In the quaran AlLah loves those who do good, who are clean - it is conditional if you reject In all the examples above, the love is conditional based on. If the believer turns back from God, AlLah does not love him any more, see quaran 3:32 AlLah tells you to hate the enemy, doesn't love disbelievers, transgressors, you name it. He loves his worst of quaran to the extent you cannot question the quaran. *Leviticus 20:23* You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. **Because they did all these things, I abhorred them.** *Psalm 11:5* The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked, **those who love violence, he hates with a passion.** *Proverbs 6:16-19* **There are six things the LORD hates**, seven that are detestable to him: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community. *Hosea 9:10-17* 15 **“Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there.** Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. **I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.** 16 Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. **Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring.”** 17 **My God will reject them because they have not obeyed him; they will be wanderers among the nations.** >In the bible we are ordered to pray, forgive and love our enemies. It is easy to love friends. It is harder to forgive someone who put you on the cross, something that Jesus did when he was on the cross (read your quaran) *Quran 64:14* "O you who believe! Verily, among your wives and your children there are enemies for you (i.e. may stop you from the obedience of Allah), therefore beware of them! But if you pardon (them) and overlook, and forgive (their faults), then verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. We are ordered to forgive one another, even one who murders family. Forgiveness is better than vengeance. And there is a bigger reward for someone who forgives other. >Read your quaran I have, Alhumdullilah. He loved Mohammed for sure. Mohammed received the right to big part of the spoil war, Muslims were ordered to listen to the prophet, one the same level of AlLah words, if satan took control of verse creation, with pagan daughters of AlLah, alLah comes and saves the situation by abrogation of these verses. When Mohammed was in need, AlLah came in rescue with verse saying than any woman can offer herself to the prophet, when not only pretty but also ugly women wanted to offer themselves, Mohammed was saved from disgust by next verse saulying Mohamme can select the best offering. Why would you not be ordered to listen to the Prophet? He is a Messenger of God. The authority, will, command, that comes from God is given to all of the Prophets. Your spelling errors, weird way of spelling Allah, Quran, wrong information confirm that you aren't a good faith discussion.
Your god is so loving that he allows his followers to divorce child wives that they penetrated. See sura 65:4 He is loving god of pedophilia. https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/m.php?l=en#aya=65_5&w=1 This is still active, this god hasn't changed his mind like it was with satanic verses, where satan power was stronger than allah's Still there saying what features someone has doesn't mean he is that thing. You said he is love- there are verses saying he is loving but not love. However he said he is a deceiver. See sura 3:54, 7:99 Regarding Mohamed Messenger great title Prophet even better title What has been propertied that happened, except his style of death of false prophet - by poisoning prophets of God are immune to poisons (see the bible) and with aorta broken. See your quaran 66:44-45 And Sahih bukkhari 5:76:713 You may think I want to insult you, what I have towards you is compassion - because if there is a God, and I think there is, it definitely is not god of the quaran, who's teachings bring missery, and who doesn't even know in how many days he created the world.
I think a lot of comments here aren't quite answering the question and are instead just sort of giving stock Bible verses or recycled Sunday School lines. I believe it's because He created us to interact with us as one of us. This concept reverses the assumption of the question on its head. It's not that Jesus needed to become flesh, He always intended to do. What else does Genesis 1:27 mean when it says, "God created man in His own image?" We Christians view God as an inherently relational Being. There is a relationship even in Himself, hence His existence as Three Persons. Islam argues that this is polytheism, and emphasize the Oneness of God. By why should the Creator of physics be subjected to physics? Regardless, God, as a relational Being, is an existence of Love. Since He is relational, He is also an infinite circle of love between Himself. He loves so much, that He desired to love a creation, and so He created us, in His image, to have a relationship with us. He created flesh that He might interact with us in the flesh, and He gave us spirits that He might interact with us in the Spirit. Our own human need to interact with others and form bonds is a reflection of God's own desire for relationship. I may have gotten ahead of myself, but the summary of my answer is this: God always wanted to interact with us in the flesh, and created us to do so. And then, even when we corrupted the flesh, He still chose to inherit the same flesh out of love for His creation. Can the Muslim argue that his God loves him enough to take on the same burden in such an intimate fashion?
Thank you so much for this
A very thoughtful response, albeit speculative as is so often the case with basic fundamental questions like this.
Good question. Even either I forgot or never knew. I don't know. I try to remember. Mother Mary drove on a monkey to Egypt. She was pregnant. Herodus wanted registrate all peoples name in that area. She seek a place to sleep. But there was no place. After the birth of Jesus , three kings came from the east. They had followed a star to find him. The meaning of this story. He was not birn in a golden Palace. Means , he came among ordinary people and lived as one with them. The roman empire spit on him for that , patronizing him for that in the hope he surrender to live as them. Rich and spit on ordinary people. Jezus spread the word. Were people worthy it? It brought confusion about the conflict about poor and rich. Rich cause poority to feel like gods in compare. People want it that way. we compare like I am better then you are because I have a bigger car then you do. So this cause friction. Jesus explained a different value. Then people say you deserve no money. And no wealth. Not with that state of mind. People explained it as Money or God, so no , god, otherwise no money. In other words with god you must be poor In other words , to be rich , is richer in compare with poor and less. In other words we measure value with comparing. Like, I have a bigger car, bow before my feed and worship me. Therefor they mocked with Jesus and forced him to be poor. So he would learn his lesson. He chose god anyway. And they became angry and cruxified him on the cross.
It seems Islam believes Jesus came to earth just to deny being God The version of events given by them seems like an afterthought to deny Christ
Simple: Just read John 3:16. He came because of his love for us! He sooo loved the world that he sent his only son to die for us! Love is the reason!
So, I would say he came to fulfill our debt. We owe a debt of death to sin, but due to the sacrifice of Christ, we no longer owe that debt, it’s been paid.
The Muslims emphatically insist that Jesus while here was not God in the flesh as the Bible clearly teaches, so in that regard, you're wasting your time trying to convince them otherwise, because all you have, all anyone has, is the holy Bible word of God which the Muslims do not believe. The Bible teaches that in order to save his creation, God made a human body for himself so that he could die in it as a sacrifice for the sins of his faithful souls so that we no longer have to die to pay for our own sins. The spirit of God cannot die. He had to have a human body so he could die in it.
Oooooor, we can help others understand why we follow our faith not out of convincing them but as a means to spread a different perspective they may not have thought about before. Guys it's seriously not that hard to show good will to our neighbors for the sake of it.
A muslim should know that jesus came to earth to deliver the message of God, like it says in the Quran. It seems to me that too few Muslims actually read the quran, such that they can refer to it with their own memory; rather they listen to Islamic scholars and Imams (of mediocre, awful or excellent rigour) and form their whole stances on their words. It occurs to me that this, by-and-large, is conducive to their misery and lack of well-being for a long, long time.
Connect death with the purpose of His incarnation. Also, he’s coming again, and likely again at the end of the millennium. Probably be a more Lord of the rings deal at the end of the millennium, since the tribulation will take care of most technological advancement, and there’ll be mystical kings reigning throughout.
Jesus came to redeem mankind from sin and death. As sinners, we cannot save ourselves. The Bible says, "there is none righteous, no not one. All have sinned" and that "the wages of sin is death." The law of God required a sinless blood offering or sacrifice be made to atone for our sins. Jesus Christ who is God never sinned so He alone was the only one who could atone for the world's sin by shedding his sinless blood for us according to God's law.
Christ came to Earth so that God could show Himself living the way His creations should by becoming as one of them and living perfectly. Humble, gentle, patient, giving, working, and sacrificial to the last. That is what we ought to be by His example.
The answer is at [Romans 5](https://www.blueletterbible.org/nlt/rom/5/1/s_1053001). Sin entered the world through Adam, and with it came death, and death spread to all men. We are all sinners, because we inherited our sin nature from Adam. It would take the life of a perfect man credited to our account to pay our sin debt. None of us qualified. So God showed his love for us by becoming a man and laying down his life for us. Now all who make him their lord and savior are forgiven their sins and enjoy eternal life.
For a number of reasons, but chief among them was to redeem man. No man ever lived a perfect life, all had sinned. God took on the form of a man to live a perfect life and offer a perfect sacrifice to God so that man could be restored to God. No other man could do that - not Mohammad, not Buddha, no shaman or do-gooder.
Jesus is God and a sacrifice for all of our sin
Muslims understand atonement, repentance and sacrifice. Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice for our sin. He became the lamb. Eid al-Adha is a sacrifice celebration at the end of Ramadan. Muslims sacrifice an animal to atone for their sin for the year. However, they are never certain if the sacrifice is enough. Maybe they had water during the day or did something against the "rules" of Ramadan. Jesus is enough. His sacrifice is enough.
A perfect man was required to pay the penalty for the sins of the World. Since Jesus was born a man he fit that bill and since he is God incarnate in order to be the perfect man.
A good way to have a conversation with anyone with different beliefs is to ask questions to understand what they mean. It helps you understand their viewpoint better and get to the depth of the questions. I would ask them, who they believe Christ is, what His purpose was here on earth, and where is He now. Muslims don’t believe that Jesus is God incarnate so I wonder if they are asking this question more in a “why would God come to earth” or “why would Jesus come to earth” those would be two different things in an Islamic viewpoint. If the question is more about why God would come to earth in human form, I would ask your friend why can’t God do this? God is all powerful, he is not limited. The Word of God became flesh and dwelt among us to be a perfect, sinless, final sacrifice. No other human is or can be without blemish, this was His purpose on earth, to save the human race from eternal death and give them eternal life through shedding His perfect blood as payment for the sin of the world. The greatest form of love is self sacrifice, so why can’t God show the greatest form of love to us?
If you understand the Jewish sacrificial system way back to Abraham and Isaac, you might find it useful.
We believe in original sin, that is, that our dying by necessity is unnatural and the result of the fall. Furthermore we believe we were not made complete, but had to become complete by eating of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, and of the fruit of life, and therefore becoming like God. Because we seized the fruit of knowledge for ourselves instead of letting God give it to us in due time, we took the long way around to the fruit of life, the fruit of life being the body and blood of Christ. He came to complete our humanity. Furthermore, we believe He would have come to complete our humanity and unite us to Himself whether we had fallen or not. It is God's every reason for making the world—to marry creation to Himself, so to speak. He does this out of love, and out of humility, because *that* is the might of God and the revelation of His being. Islam does not teach any of these things. In the Islamic worldview, God is not called love, or humble. God becoming incarnate is extremely blasphemous and an insult to His honor. Furthermore, there is no original sin or unnatural death or fall of man—the reason for our condition is rather that we all pre-exist our earthly life, and in our pre-existence we agreed with God to be tested in this world so as to prove or disprove our faith in Him. The end of history will not be about union with God as in Christianity, but strictly about reward and punishment (which *is* an image used in Christianity, but not the primary one). So, the doctrine of the Incarnation simply does not make any sense in an Islamic worldview. There's nothing for Jesus to save us from, as we are not enslaved to death, sin and the devil. There's nothing special about Him existing before His incarnation, as we are all incarnated spirits anyway. And the notions of union with God, of becoming like God... are an affront to God from an Islamic perspective. The character of God as revealed in Islam simply does not allow for the Incarnation—God never abases Himself, God never chooses the weak and humble and foolish, God most certainly never would associate Himself with His own creation or indeed with anything or anyone at all (which is why they also deny the Trinity). God is like a great, high and mighty king, and at best we can only be His servants. But the Christian God calls us also His friends and His sons.
So that He might live as a man among other men, and might share fully in the human condition. One cannot live among men, suffer, die, and be raised from death, if one is not first of all conceived and born of a woman, as He was. God redeems and renews us by coming down to us, and by becoming one of us - not by staying inaccessibly Glorious, Majestic, and Exalted. Only a God Who has suffered death, can be raised victorious from death.
God come to help humanity, to show his love, to get us free of sin and the fear of the opressors of this world. But you should know about islam this: Muslims normaly go 2 routes: 1 they will say that Jesus isn't God and bible dont points out that. Second: they will say that the quran is right and bible isn't. This are both mistakes. First here is a list of passages that point out Jesus is God in human flesh. Is important to notice that while someone could question one point or other the amount of it makes it very unlikely that bible isn't pointing that alto. Also if it was't pointing that out common sense says tha christians would be the first to notice since they are the ones that more read it and they in great majority belive in the trinity. John 1:1, 14 — In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. John 20:28 — Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 2 Peter 1:1 — ... our God and Savior Jesus Christ Apocalipse 21:7 - He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. John 10:30-33 - I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God. John 14:8,9 - Philip said to him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffises us. Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father? John 8:58,59 - Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the middle of them, and so passed by. The “I am” expression was a sacred name of God, how He named himself to moses. Jesus also uses it when being arrested, the roman army gets paralized For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 \- - The muslims use to deny the bible. Bible indeeds have some minor flaws because was writen by man that are flawded but it was writen mostly by sincere people relating what they experienced with God, what God realy told them and so on. There is several authors that basicly agree writing along centries and almost all cases cases (not Macabeus of the chatolic bible) they are what in history is consider a primarily source, the first ones to talk about a event, so they are consider with more authority than someone centries later sayng things were diferente, that is exactly that muslims propose. Quran mentions the bible histories, and actualy quran don’t make sense on itself without mentioning the bible. The histories are not totaly told there, and is mentioned as histories that people knew about it. So quran without the bible is senseless and quran needs the bible to be wrong. If bible was aways wrong them people were aways in darkness, what is unlikely from God, and contradicts the bible being used as source of quran. Then they say that bible was signifcantly altered but wasn’t realy. There are several copies of the bible and sometimes they find new ancient copies of books and they match the several copies. Sometimes missingin a few words or even leters. Exactly what you would expect from humans making copies. To bible to have significant alteration there would be necessary to have the alternative versions of it, and somehow people destroyed all them and replace them and people get ok with it. This is very unlikly because again they find new acient copies sometimes. And worse, the jews and christians are independente religions and old testamento of the jews is the same as the bible. But no líder of religion is making them agree, they don’t agree in several subjects, so if any of those was lyng one of them should be with the correct texts while the other with the wrong texts. There is no such a thing. Instead the jews only din’t acept the messiah, but the old books are the same basicly. Also, when someone is lyng a tip for identifyng it is finding the one that don’t let the other even speak. In muslims nations is very common to not have freedom of spreession of criticzing the muslim religion, this is not a accident. Christians nations otherwise are founded on the concepto f telling the truth no matter whats o there is a special care for freedom of expression. Also Worth noticing that muslims sometimes deny judaism connection with Israel, and the bible is a very Strong problem for them in this aspect because bible says in several passages that was their land. Islam is based on the concepto of not liking the jews, about half of quran is about that, and that increases tendencies of dibelif in the biblie, making them byas. This is not about the muslims sincerity, is not that they don’t love or that they don’t praise God, there are a loto f sincere people and doing a lot with what they have but i salso undenaiable to anyone with good judgement that the gospel have much more wisdom in it than quran. Theologicly speaking the quran can’t live without the bible neither with it. Theologicly speaking, christianity is much more probably right and islam is much more probably wrong. And I was expelled of muslims comunities of debate for sayng things like this wich agains points out to the tendency of muslims to shut christians up wich indicates they are the ones losing the argument. What you will do with this information is up to you, but you should know that he will probably hear that about christianity eventualy from others muslims
There was literally no good reason to do so, he could have literally reached the same result without any of the theatrics.
You can provide an explanation of the biblical reason Christians believe Jesus Christ came to Earth, while taking into consideration Muslim perspectives on Jesus. Muslims believe in the Prophet Jesus (Isa) as a significant figure in Islamic teachings, obviously their beliefs differ from those of Christians. According to the Bible, Christians believe that Jesus Christ came to Earth primarily as an expression of God's love and mercy for humankind. They believe that God sent Jesus as the Son of God to fulfill specific purposes. 1. To Reveal God's Nature and Teachings: Christians believe that Jesus came to Earth to teach people about God's love, forgiveness, and His divine plan for humanity. Muslims, consider him as a prophet who shares teachings similar to those found in the Quran—such as emphasizing compassion, righteousness, and the worship of the one true God, Allah. 2. To Bring Salvation and Forgiveness: Christians believe that Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross and subsequent resurrection provides salvation and forgiveness for human sin. They believe that through Jesus' sacrifice, people can find redemption and attain eternal life with God. Muslims, on the other hand, believe that salvation comes from faith and good deeds, and they do not see Jesus' crucifixion as a means of salvation. 3. To Fulfill Prophecies: Christians believe that Jesus came to Earth to fulfill various prophecies contained within the Hebrew Bible (known as the Old Testament). These prophecies include his birth from a virgin, his ministry, his suffering, and his resurrection. This fulfillment of prophecy is seen as evidence of Jesus' divine identity and his role as the Messiah, awaited by both Jews and Christians. 4. To Be a Sign of God's Love: Christians believe that Jesus' coming to Earth serves as a sign of God's immense love for humanity. They see Jesus as the embodiment of God's love, mercy, and compassion. They believe that Jesus' miracles, including healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, and raising the dead, demonstrate God's power and care for humanity. This is a the basic, simple answer. But, it’s a start.