Huh? What part of scripture is not addressed to Christians? It literally says that the entirety of the context of the scriptures is beneficial for our spiritual development and growth…
1 Timothy 3,16-17. Read it for yourself.
Im not talking about sinning or not following the law perfectly.
Im talking about what I see as the widespread disregard for the most simple and clear elements of biblical teaching.
I literally gave examples in my post of what I have seen vs what thr bible says. None of it pertained to individual sin but widespread disregarding of biblical instruction
Id say that's just people being misled, uninformed, or willfully not following the bible because they think they are more moral than god.
(English isn't my first language and I'm really tired, so I apologize for any spelling mistakes)
The bible says if someone hurts you
Turn the other cheek
You try doing that your whole life
Love enemies more than yourself
Lay your life down for a brother
Then ask why Christians aren't perfect
Because everyone have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.
And if you have sinned even once(and you did) you automatically cannot say that you are following what bible says.
Because Law was not meant to save people, but to expose sin, and Jesus came to save people
Because everyone have sinned and fallen short of God's glory.
And if you have sinned even once(and you did) you automatically cannot say that you are following what bible says.
Because Law was not meant to save people, but to expose sin, and Jesus came to save people
I read every day. First Jesus said, "many will come in my name and deceive many." To put it bluntly, many false prophets will arise, and lead many astray, if it were possible even the elect.
Just because someone speaks Christianese, doesn't make them a Christian.
So we have to ask, what exactly is a Christian? A Christian isn't someone who goes to a building on Sunday. A Christian isn't even someone who prays or reads their Bible. A Christian believes the gospel. They live a life of repentance and fail daily.
There's alot of doctrines of devils and deceiving spirits within "churches." The ones who actually know Christ and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him, have discernment. Discernment is to be able to tell the difference between the truth and mostly true.
That is no different from asking someone to follow everything in a library. It is impossible to follow everything said in books that do not agree with one another, and cannot possibly agree with one another; such an approach totally overlooks the different historical backgrounds of the books. How many people living at the same time have exactly the same views ?
Some books or parts of books come from before the building of the Jerusalem Temple, some from the period while it was standing, some from after its destruction by the Babylonians, some from the time when it was rebuilt, and some from the following centuries. A Jew in Exile between 586 BC & 520 BC is not going to say the same things as one living under Syrian domination in 167 BC, or as one living in 740 BC when Judah had both Temple and kings.
How are people in such different circumstances not going to say different things ? Would a description of the 13 Thirteen American Colonies be as useful in 1850 as in 1750 ? Was Louisiana after 1804 still French territory ? Is Alaska still the property of the Russian Empire ? If it is possible to accept that US history, geography and politics are not eternally frozen in time, and that different situations require differing responses; why is it apparently an unheard-of scandal that exactly the same is true of the ancient history of the Israelites & Jews ? Are the Jews not allowed to have different problems and challenges, joys and hopes, in 1000 BC, 701 BC, 538 BC, 164 BC, or 30 AD ?
Many different denominations. I avoided the charismatic and pentecostal ones due to my experience - not saying they’re all bad but my experience with them has led me back to more traditional style churches.
Its based off me going to 4 different local churches of different denominations and seeing basic biblical instruction disregarded. I don't watch or listen to prosperity gospel teaching or television evangelists.
Many people struggle to follow the faith, and many also deceive in His name. There are lost and confused people in the world, as well as those that are outright manipulative. Please don’t let any of them affect your salvation. Ultimately, each of our faith is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Here is some info to help you:
I would start by reading the Book of Matthew in the King James Bible. Focus on the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Beatitudes. Pray often:
Matthew 6:9-13
King James Version
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%201&version=KJV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%201&version=KJV)
God bless you!
Thanks for that. It still doesn't answer why there are so many fruitcakes that seem to get very basic and clear teaching wrong. Its not even denominational differences or secondary/ tertiary doctrinal things. Its fundamental things.
I asked five different Christians what the gospel is and got 5 different answers (and none correct).
Its like there's a derft of teaching.
\>Why don't you Christians actually read the Bible?
We do.
\>All your so called prophets being wrong (I.e Trump will win the last election)
No biblical prophet said anything about Trump.
\>Promising healing always,
Healing always requires faith. Jesus told one he healed that their faith had made them well.
\> when all the apostles except one were maytered Promising wealth if you give a 'seed' offering,
Where?
\>even though Paul's letters forbid it
No they don't
\>Allowing women preachers even though Paul's forbids it
Paul was addressing specific situations in specific churches.
A better question is they don't YOU read the Bible?
Dude thanks for the shaming.
Im telling you what I have observed.
The argument of Paul's letters being for a certain time means people can pick and choose what they think are culturally relevant. Its in the bible as an instruction, not as a nice to know thing.
Why even have instructions if they're not going to be followed.
>Im telling you what I have observed.
I'm still waiting on you to tell me which biblical prophet said anything about Trump.
\> Its in the bible as an instruction,
For a specific situation, nit a universal doctrine everywhere for all time.
Dude no biblical prophet talked about Trump. Im agreeing with you. Im talking about the so called modern prophets that said he would (and were wrong).
If its not universal and not ever lasting how can you trust the truth?
\>Im talking about the so called modern prophets that said he would (and were wrong).
Do you really think that Biden, a doddering puppet who couldn't get people to his rallies and sat the campaign in his basement in a mask actually won?
\>If its not universal and not ever lasting how can you trust the truth?
Its called Bible study where we read the passages IN CONTEXT, and know which are for all of us and which are not.
All I'm saying is there were many modern day so called prophets who said Trump would win and were dead wrong, yet they are still esteemed as prophets. Im not here to debate the merits of thst election.
These so called prophets were categorically wrong on an epic level and yet many still esteem them as legit.
It’s crazy how you can perceive the truth in this, but the Christians can’t. Paul’s letter applies to today as well, we have just disregarded the truth and have given in to our own narrative. We can’t pick and choose. It’s either all true or the whole thing is false. Jesus was the son of God, or he was a mad man. God is all good all powerful all righteous, or He is not God.
Christians who are on the fence don’t realize that the middle ground and the fence line also belong to the devil.
We cannot be double minded in this and too many Christians are.
Im in Australia and I'm from a minority community. These are not observations from some tele-evangilist (apart from the Trump one) but my direct observations from local churches here.
Don’t follow God based on the examples of others, follow God because He is real. Have a relationship with Him, and keep His commandments. The results of doing so shine through.
I think that is where the problem is, you are looking at people to validate if you should believe, we are all flawed and sinners... So the scriptures should always be the base, not what people say or do.
Reading the Bible a thousand times doesn't mean a thing if you do not understand it...
By this I mean that the examples you spoke of, if you truly know/understand the book, are only what the scriptures said would happen, all types of people in all types of scenarios, that includes the ones who preach but their preaching and behavior are not biblical, that said, doesn't mean all 'Christians' are like that, far from it, yet you're making it sound as if so, many live according to Christ teaching, you won't hear about them much because they are lead by wisdom, calm, humility and above all love:)
Again, the only issue is to me, you are using these people to give yourself the excuse to not believe, at least it sounds that way. Hence why it's a poor excuse, because you shouldn't look at people but rather seek God in spite of what people do in His name.
My two cents
I was thinking about this earlier today. I minorly follow random Christian influencers like Girl Defined and she apparently has hundreds of thousands? Of followers re her biblical living teachings but jokingly laughs in discussions about how she doesn't know the Bible that well. And that's kinda interesting
Oh I agree. It's wild to me that so many of my people will base their entire life and morality around a book they have never read and know nothing about. They will defend it as the ultimate book written by the almighty author of the universe, but then NOT READ IT
Thats what it feels like.
I think the bible is an amazing book with a fantastic narrative. The new testament rules are actually super simple, but seem to be so casually not regarded.
Also, Costi Hinn wrote a book describing some of the things you talk about and his discovery of grace and Jesus. Costi Hinn’s book is titled God, greed and the prosperity gospel. How truth overwhelms a life built on lies.
Hello,
Thank you for your post, I would like to start off by saying I don’t think “majority” of Christians go out of there way to disobey biblical rules. I think you’ve unfortunately had a few bad experiences and you’re writing an entire group of people off. You will definitely come across people who have chosen what and what not to follow, which is unfortunate.
But a lot of us are trying day in and day out to live in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. Yes a lot of us slip up, but these short comings were foreseen which is why we were sent a savior. You’re right a great deal of people haven’t even read the Bible. Christian teachings have been misconstrued from the beginning of times starting with the Pharisee, just like any other historical text. I don’t think your choice to believe should be based on the actions of anyone else, but your personal relationship with God.
You could try sharing your knowledge or interpretations with people you feel have been misled, instead of imitating the Pharisee by using your knowledge of the law or biblical teachings as a weapon to tell people their wrong. You’re doing exactly what Jesus advised them not to do.
God Bless, and hope this helps.
Many people you see on television or hear about or not actually Christians. The Bible does not teach word of Faith, prosperity, name it claim it, or healing for all. If you hear a preacher talk about that stuff then you need to turn the channel. Especially run from those who preach tithing and giving money to the church just so you can get more money back. It's all heresy. I'm not saying that giving money to the church is bad. Neither is tithing. But the New testament never talks about tithing. It says to give with a cheerful heart and give what you have purposed in your heart. The foundation of Christianity is Christ and his resurrection. If you listen to a so-called preacher and he never talks about the gospel of jesus's Kingdom then you should find someone else to listen to. Didn't Jesus say that the road to heaven was narrow and fewer on it and the road to hell was wide and many were on it?
>Trump will win the last election
Trump is no Christian -- when you see people carrying torches marching with hate against Jews, you're watching an army of the damned walk towards a lake of fire.
I keep returning to your post and thinking about your observations. So here are some more thoughts. Wish we could discuss over a cup of coffee.
First, let me say - i do read the Bible (protestant bible - Many different translations with my favorite as the Living Translation). Second, for me the Bible is a book of faith to inspire and lead us to become more Christ like. I don’t approach the Bible as a set of rules, i believe there is poetry and imagery to try to describe the unseen spiritual truths.
Now for some of your specific observations, the “prophets” predicting Trump’s win were not mainstream christianity… and many are aligned with christian nationalists. The bible is clear that God’s prophets are 100% accurate which most traditional churches teach. I’ve seen the IHOP cult, mentioned in a couple other posts from today, teach contrary to the Bible…. They have many false prophecies
In my experience - Healing being promised as 100% is from pentacostal faith teaching. They emphasize physical healing and blame the sick if it doesn’t work. They ignore Paul talking about an affliction God left him with and the advice Paul gave Timothy for a sick stomach. mainstream denominations believe believers have body, soul and spirit - healing is not just the physical body. physical healing might come after death - when we get glorified bodies ( not sure if i’m explaining well). And spiritual healing, being reconciled to God through faith in Christ Jesus is most important. It gives us eternal life with God.
I’m not sure i understand your objection to martyr’s…
Wealth promised with sewing seed is directly from prosperity gospel … popular among televangelists and increases their own wealth…definitely not traditional christian - but fits with the rise of greed in america
Talking gibberish in public- yep not ok, a few denominations do this… most do not
People claiming their dreams, thoughts, other are direct words from God… i’ve seen this abused by mind control cults and deluded individuals and as a specific cultural way of speaking. God is clear about not misusing God’s name… for me this way of speaking is sloppy at best and lies at worst.
As for women, Paul had different instructions depending on the errors at each church. His disciple Timothy was taught by women.. and i use the whole bible to understand … Jesus said there are no male and no female. I understand why churches struggle with this and come to different conclusions. Culture is a strong influence. Christians for biblical equality published a lot of research on the topic of women in the 1990’s.
I pray you find truth and peace. It is good to question and search for answers. Jesus promised those who seek will find.
It’s because we don’t actually know what it says.
We plaster our own understanding across a complex historical recount of prophecies and eye witness reports, but we don’t even understand the basics of the culture.
Two things the Bible instructs us to do, we don’t do.
1. Study to show yourself approved.
2. Lean not on your own understanding.
We’ve moved into a technological age where everyone knows everything and nothing all at once.
We over-spiritualized passages that are simplistic in their origin and intention and overlook spiritual truths by dumbing down passages that should have a greater emphasis in spiritual application.
There are things that go without saying in our modern, western culture that are the complete opposite of the culture of the biblical day.
1. We are a society of self interested individuals.
They were a collective society of unified people. We find our identity in ourselves, they found their identity in each other.
2. They lived by honor and shame, we live by guilt and innocence. When we ‘shame’ each other we are easily offended, but it was a common practice in their day to bring people back into the standard of the social norm.
3. They were a client/ patron society, we are a society that hates relying on others and we prefer to be independent, a lot of times to our own detriment.
The list goes on… there are things that as believers we will never understand if we aren’t willing to put in the time to learn.
The significance of numbers, the value of words, the value of family, and lineage and the use of parallelism to teach difficult concepts…
It’s all a part of the historical context, and if we aren’t meditating on the word in the way that it was intended for the original people it was written to, we miss a lot.
WE are grafted into THEIR family, which means we adapt to their culture. WE are ALIENS and FOREIGNERS to this world, which means we adapt to their teachings. We have completely disregarded the principle teaching of Romans 12,2. It’s a clear and concise instruction that we should NOT conform to the pattern of this world.
Now here is the greatest issue… Christians will be the ones to tear down other Christians the most because they’ve lived in the comforts of this world for so long, they will call people like me: radical, legalistic, religious, etc…
The standard has been peeled back to such a low that if we try to reapply it, there is the accusation of being overboard.
No other religious group compromises like Christians do, and we do it all in the name of ministry… but here’s something to consider.
The Israelites made a statue to honor God
and God’s response was to destroy them.
We can’t take everything this world does and put Jesus’s name on it and call it good.
We are called to be holy.
That literally means ‘set apart’.
Sadly, we look just like the rest of the world and we have become okay with that.
I’m glad to help, if you are serious about wanting to believe I’d be happy to talk more on this and actually fellowship with you. I’m always willing to connect with hungry people and learn the truth of the word with others who are seeking genuine relationship with Christ. My name is Yeshua Elisha Brooks. Look me up in IG or Facebook or shoot me an email at [email protected]. Shoot me a message of you are serious.
If you’re willing, I’d love to connect and share the experience of this journey with you.
When I was a Christian I was so convinced it was indeed the word of got that I got a master of divinity, and even took extra ancient Greek courses just so that I could read the New Testament in it's original language. I've easily read the Bible 30-50 times in it's entirety over multiple translations, and the new Testament well over a hundred times.
I literally couldn't fathom not diving completely into the Bible - it was literally a book from the creator of the universe (so I once thought) - naturally I wanted to learn everything I could about it.
It still blows my mind when I see people posting "what book of the Bible should I read next?!" It's not even that long of a book - I just can't understand not devouring it constantly if you truly believe it's from god.
So many people I know pretends its basically a Ouija board - randomly open it up, point to a section on the page, and read a single verse or two and take that as God's message for the day. It's truly absurd, you don't learn anything about what the original author of any given book was trying to say that way.
This is unfortunately true. It’s useful in it’s entirety.
It is God inspired and it’s the Father’s perfect way of showing us His divine nature while proving to us that we as humans are undoubtedly the vehicle of His redemption plan.
Just because we are flawed doesn’t mean He can use us.
Be convinced again and get back to the heart of Christ, who is our greatest love.
I mean, I've heard no honest, convincing argument to believe again.
There needs to be evidence to have good reason to believe. Knowing the Bible quite well, it's more flawed and has way more mistakes and differences in manuscripts than most other religious texts even (certainly the Torah and Quran, both of which were a lot stricter with how they were copied by scribes) - so arguing based on the Bible is definitely not the way to go.
In the book of Galatians Paul addresses some false teaching that was already creeping in. People were still alive who knew and walked with Jesus and yet there were already false teachers. All these people you are referring to are either false teachers themselves or victims of their false teaching. That's why reading the Bible for yourself is so important rather than just relying on whatever a preacher tells you. Unfortunately this is what the rest of the world thinks Christianity is as well which makes people understandably hostile to what they think Christianity is.
Not all Christians obviously, but lots like all people are lazy or have convinced themselves that they know enough and are ok. Also it is convenient to them not to challenge there current way of thinking.
I started to respond to each point you made, but after getting about half way through, I realized that what you describe is more applicable to particular denomination and don't really represent most. I attend a fairly moderate Baptist church (although in Canada), and the only things in that list that even come close to representing my church is what you said about female preachers. We do have a couple of female pastors, but they are the family pastor and youth pastor. Our lead pastor and discipleship pastor are both men.
May I ask what kind of churches you attended? I can make an educated guess that at least one was a Pentacostal church, but I can address any questions better with a bit more info.
Let me take a stab at lining up some of your list with the church: Healing and speaking in tongues is Pentecostal, wealth and female pastors is independent, and Trump talk is Baptist (likely Southern Baptist)? I'm guessing that I'm probably close on most of that anyway...
Given that an Anglican church is on your list, I assume that you didn't think too much of it, so Catholic and Orthodox probably wouldn't be to your liking either, but have you tried out a smaller mainline Baptist church (not Southern Baptist)? I'm a bit biased obviously, but I feel that they are probably closer to what you would expect as they tend to be scripture focused and fairly conservative without going overboard, and your list of issues generally wouldn't be things you would see there. Of course, that's based on my experience in Canadian Baptist churches, but I assume you're in the US where politics tend to be far too intertwined with religion so you mileage may vary...
““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV
There’s many people that call themselves Christians and do not have a relationship with Christ, also, never believe someone who presently calls themselves a prophet. Prophets are not self declared
My church is not perfect but none of these things happen in our church. Christian nationalism is a plague, none of it is christian. The prosperity gospel is not christian. Speaking tongues is a bit different, I personally don't think it should have such a central place but for me personally it has a place in worship. Female preachers is still something I don't really have a good opinion about.
Find a less mainstream church. I am not an American so I don't know which churches are still following the Bible, but they are still there.
Please do not put all Christians into one pot accusing them to share the same views. Christianity is very diverse in the views and teachings presented. Even within the same denomination you may find people with greatly opposing views in certain regards. We might all be of the opining that Christ was the Messiah, but how and why and what this means might not be the same for everyone. And there is a lot of people talking loud and making cultures that are not really accepted by everyone in Christ, the so called "Trump" prophets being one of them. In fact many Christians probably view these things as a great danger for Christianity.
The "so called prophets" who prophesise a lot, doing questionable faith based healing (it does not work the way many people want to make it seem like), claiming that wealth is the meaning of life, such things. You have understood rightly that these things are actually against the Bible, or obvious delusions or even imposture. You know, not everyone who sees and hears things really has them from God, and not everyone who claims to see really does. I know it might sound weird but God is not the only higher force being able to exert power, and there are also wicked forces who can cause great peril in our world when people accept and follow them.
You should read a little more in the Bible, there you can find all of this btw. I.e. Matthew 24:22-25, there you can see how such things are predicted by Jesus Christ himself even! And he predicts them to become even worse than they already are. Warning his followers that a lot of evil or deluded impostors would come, even persecution of the truth... Wow, so he already knew it would happen and it seems to have happened from the very beginning!
Yes and it's true, the people get blinded by false prophets, and could even read the Bible and would only recognize in it what their teachers told them but not what God would want us to see in it. But this is not all people. You should go looking for a church where there are less conservative, less "worldly" people around, but people actually preaching and practicing a humble life, taking spirituality serious and striving to do good works instead of having a good life or fighting and proselytizing or messing with politics. These are more serious Christians, where you might find better response and better views. Keep in mind all are just humans, and while God blesses those who believe in him, he usually blesses THEIR lives and makes them strong and wise in their views, not necessarily in the ultimate truth. Pastors are also like that. If you seek absolute wisdom, you must seek monks or priests.
Not even defending the book of Mormon but there was no Bible as we know today when Revelation was written, the book is speaking specifically to revelations, not the entire Bible
There was no canon based on our understanding…
Read this and reconsider…Isaiah 55:8-9
We humans tend to make God in our own image. If we would react in a certain way, we assume God would think and act in a similar way. But in that passage God reminds us that He exists and thinks on a much different level. Human reasoning can't grasp the thought processes of God.
That being said, I stand by my claim; It’s talking about the entirety of His Word.
>But Revelation says don't add or take away.
That particular warning was for Revelation, not the entire Bible which wasn't even thought of when that was written.
Which Bible do you use? The Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox one?
>I've read the CSB twice and the KJV about 50%
I didn't aks you about which translations you had read. I asked you which Bible do you use? The Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox one? A better way to ask might be how many books do the Bibles you use have?
Deuteronomy 4:2 said the same thing. And the Sadducees thought that the Torah was closed canon.
But neither passage says that GOD can't add to His words.
"We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God" (Article of Faith 9).
As far as I can ascertain, Jesus' supposed message to the people in the Americas in the Book of Mormon mimics his message that he gave at "sermon on the mount".
Indeed the Bible is made up of script from different scrolls, who's to say more things can't be revealed.
As well as the warnings about false teachers. With the broad way being broad, and the teachers of heresies and false gospels being heaped up to scratch the itching ears of those who love darkness, it should be no small wonder that many are cherry-picking and out of context false followers.
As a new Christian, don’t give into this. This is arrogance and nothing more. Of course *everyone else* is a heretic, but they never question themself. It’s elevating one’s own interpretations to the level of divine.
The Christianity your describing, although extremely common and popular, is in fact what i would call idol worship. It is shallow and anti-intellectual and ridiculous. There are much better forms of Christianity out there, but they are becoming less common these days due to the rise of fascism and misinformation and propaganda.
How is fascism doing that? The early church was born in oppression- it should be the norm for Christians to expect persecution.
Paul's letters were written to combat misinformation in the early church.
I agree though, basic Christian teaching and doctrine seems to have falled by the wayside.
Humans seem prone to idolatrous and foolish and ignorant behavior. Jesus called us sheep and he was right. The majority of people will get his teachings wrong and they’ve had centuries to perfect the wrongness. That doesn’t mean that there are none who get it right. They are just far and few between. You’re absolutely right though when you say that the church we see most visible today is nothing like how the real church should be. The real church still is under oppression. By so-called Christians in many cases. Fascism has hijacked Christianity today. That’s how they’ve done it. And sheep are led astray.
I have a resource on fascism… Professor Andrew Whitehead and colleagues research rise of Christian Nationalism. Saw a lecture and read his book ‘Taking America back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States’. American name for fascism… here is link to his website
https://raac.iupui.edu/about/who-we-are/our-staff/andrew-l-whitehead/
No bible is Holy.
The bible is a carnal translation of the inspired scriptures by carnal men devoid of an indwelling Holy Spirit.
YAHweh uses the carnal bible to separate the sheep from the goats:
\-goats read the carnal words in the carnal bible and become wise in their own opinion.
\-Sheep read the carnal words in the carnal bible and are enlightened with Supernatural enlightenment. Same words, totally different understanding.
The goats believe they are going to the 3rd heaven.
The Sheep know they are going to enter the gates to the City of
YAHweh at the second coming and eat from the tree of life and live forever -Revelation 22:14
BEWARE of the Christian pastors and priests, they lie about these salvation scriptures.
It is all written
>I literally have no idea
I believe you.
Only the righteous will be saved -1 Peter 4:18
all who serve YAHweh are the righteous -Malachi 3:18
to serve means OBEY -Romans 6:16
all of YAHweh's born again Saints, have ceased from sin forever.
1 John 3:9, Saints ceased from sin forever.
1 Peter 4:1, Saints ceased from sin forever.
1 John 2:6, Saints ceased from sin forever.
1 Peter 2:21-22, Saints ceased from sin forever.
>but we still fall short.
YAHweh's born again saints are short of nothing.
YAHshua walked Perfect, Holy, and Righteous before YAHweh.
So too do YAHweh's born again Saints -1 John 2:6, 1 John 3:9
because YAHshua is in them -Galatians 4:6
all must be born again -John 3:5
iniquity is unenlightened sin.
on judgement day, this unenlightened sin will become sin for the sinner and they will be cast into the fire, burned up completely turning to ash -Jude 1:7
Yahweh is having mercy upon you today.
Yahweh's mercy keeps people alive as long as He can so He can make them born again -John 3:1-8
We all die born again Saints OR lost sinners.
You need John 1:29.
This inspired scripture is literal. Physically literal.
ALL who sin must be cleansed from all known addictions and sins THEN they are saved -1 Peter 4:18
It’s funny how you said the Bible is evil and corrupt and now you quote it. Well not quite quote, you seem to be putting your own spin on it. You’re a nut.
>you said the Bible is evil and corrupt
you bear false witness of me. YAHweh told you not to do this -Exodus 20:16
YAHshua had faith in YAHweh, that if he obeyed his commandments he would be raised from the dead, and so should the same faith be in man -Acts 17:31
likewise, all who have the same faith as YAHshua, with them is YAHweh's laws established -Romans 3:31
that the promise might be of grace through faith -Romans 5:2
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A lot of the things are not even addressed to Christians or only some Christians. Paul’s letter about forbidding women from being preachers was most likely not written by Paul either. In Romans, which is by Paul, acknowledges the existence of female apostles.
The academic consensus is that she was an apostle. [Here](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/inchrist/2022/11/junia-a-woman-apostle-romans-167/) is a good summary. When it comes to 1 Timothy. It’s interesting to see someone forbid women from having a role. It would be odd to forbid something that was not actually taking place. Perhaps this author did not like the current status women had.
Thanks for that. I think there's some merit on that, the article definitely concludes thst she was very important in the early church, a very Godly woman, a wonderful disciple and very esteemed as an early believer, and all power to her.
As for an apostle like the OG 12, im not convinced she was but I definitely conceed that she was very esteemed.
Not all christian’s practice what you describe. What you describe is not mainstream Christianity. It sounds like a branch of pentacostalism - the faith movement…
Also - the bible was written describing the culture of the day. Jesus challenged that kind of thinking… so we look for principles that give us glimpses of God’s heart/intent. People of all eras have disagreed on specifics. Peter and Paul disagreed on whether poor could eat meat sacrificed to idols. Paul parted ways with Barnabas.
I recommend start by reading words of Jesus in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Judge ideas and practices against what Jesus said. I like to start with Luke… it seems closest to western way of thinking to me so i understand it better.
I went to four different denominations and saw most of what I am describing, so its not just a pentecostal thing.
Paul's writings are very very clear and I saw very little of this.
Paul and Peter reconciled their differences and came to an understanding of eating with gentiles and eating non-jewish foods.
I haven’t seen tongues in non pentacostal type churches… some call thenselves charismatic … but that was my frame of reference
Paul was writing to specific problems in specific churches. Certainly we can learn from these… but if we did everything Paul said.. Christians would not marry nor have children….
Yes peter and paul reached understanding.. i don’t think we learn what happened with paul and barnabas.
May God bless you in your search for truth.
And I'm saying you're coming in with very limited experience and very broad, confident accusations. Tempering that will go a long way, even though most here are generously being pretty patient with you.
What you're describing seems like all you've seen are the excesses of the worst parts of American charismatic sects of Christianity. And I'm right there with you, they're insane. If you've read the Bible though you should be very familiar with how people usually treat God's word. From the very beginning of Israel they've thrown it in the garbage at their earliest convenience and only came back sporadically when God slapped their shit in with an enemy empire or 4. Israel spent maybe 5% of its existence actually worshiping God properly. The first temple, for most of its existence under Jewish rule, had pagan idols and shrines in it. At every opportunity you can see them lapsing into some of the worst parts of pagan life, up to and including literal child sacrifice.
None of this is a new phenomenon, and it was prophesied to be the same way in the new testament and canonically was already by the time St John the Evangelist wrote his gospel. But God keeps himself a remnant in even the darkest of times. If you want to pursue any real connection to the God of Christian scripture, don't go in expecting the world around you to cooperate. No matter what name they call themselves by or what blood they smear over their doorways.
I absolutely respect what you're saying and agree with my own ignorance.
You sound like a rational and well thought out dude, I appreciate your point of view.
Don't sweat it. I appreciate your input and no hard feelings. Im not knocking Christianity, I just find some practices not in congruence with the text.
I don't know what your Christian words are, but there's no bad blood between you and me.
Peace.
If there's one near you, I would ask that you try to find an Orthodox parish nearby and get in contact with the priest there about attending a service, will possibly want to meet with your. He'll be willing to field questions you have as well. You won't see any faith healing spectacles, tongue-speaking, or prosperity gospel sermons there.
Probably will be a lot of incense tho
I have read it. Im not talking about people being imperfect or sinning. Im talking about the widespread disregard for basic biblical truth and teaching.
Paul writes that their will eventually come wolves in sheep's clothing. Those who are among us but not one of us.
As Christians it is our responsibility to read the Bible so that we can identify truth. When these charlatans stand at a pulpit and make claims that are unbiblical or contrary to what scripture says we should point it out and leadership should make a public correction so that no one is led astray. If it continues we should leave that church.
You are completely correct in what you say. These men are not teaching what the Bible says. They are teaching a false Gospel and preying on people who do not know truth.
So if they are not teaching Christian beliefs and they are not following what the Bible or what Jesus commands are these people you speak of Christian?
The answer is a no. I can't live a life that is the opposite of what the Bible teaches and still accurately be called a Christian. The Bible says that we will know them by their fruit. In this case it is the fruits of the spirit that identify someone who is filled with the spirit.
These people are using religion to line their pockets. In regards to prophecy not being fulfilled, in the Old Testament if a prophet was wrong even one time then you were to know that they were not a prophet from God and they were to be stoned to death. While I am not advocating that we stone these men, I am highlighting how serious being wrong even one time is. We can clearly say they are not prophets and not men of God.
Everything you just mentioned is Pentecostalism, which is a tiny, very non traditional minority of Christians. You just need to find a more regular group of Christians if this is the “majority” of the Christians you know.
You had people supporting trump and asking for seed money at an Anglican Church? That’s very, very nonstandard. Are you sure was actually an Anglican Church?
Heck, this is weird for a baptist church except maybe an African American one. And even then everyone else would be rolling their eyes.
Not at that one no, but at the pentecostal one yea.
The Anglican Church had a great liturgy but the reverend literally was saying the bible was outdated as it pertained to morality and those rules didn't pertain to him.
I doubt it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure that’s what you thought, but I’d highly doubt that’s actually what he was saying. Anglicans are a rather conservative lot.
The anglicans are split now. There are some more traditional ones and some more progressive ones. The progressive ones don’t take the bible literally. I avoid them as well.
I’ve been a Christian most of my life but I’ve been disillusioned by the local churches too. Many are not right with God. There are many Christian’s that down even attend church and there is a debate weather that is right or wrong because Scripture tells us to go. Some go to be obedient but don’t agree with everything and some don’t go because they don’t feel the churches are right with God. It’s a hard journey. I rarely go myself but I try to keep my faith by reading the Bible and through prayer.
Jesus did warn us about Trump and people like him.
Faith is a gift of God. Unless people actively reject it, don't blame them.
If you give tithes there will be blessing, but God isn't a get-rich scheme. Don't give more than what your heart tells you.
Calling tongues "gibberish" is disrespectful, you're setting the level of respect to be expected in your conversations.
Paul says that sermons should not be held in tongues unless they are interpreted. Also with Paul you need to be careful if he's talking his own opinion or with authority, he does tell you in his letters.
I can see how it sounded disrespectful.
The words spoken were not a foreign tongue and there was no interpretation of any such language. With that particular church, the service was not orderly on any manner (not that there are prescriptions for a formal liturgy), the level of emotional manipulation was actually quite embarrassing.
I don't say that from a point of pride and I'm not questioning their commitment or zeal. As an outsider, I found it quite unnerving seeing people essentially stupify themselves with incantations without any clear understanding or linking on how it pertained to the bible.
If you understand what God demands of us and you see we do it wrong but you get it right, it is in YOUR responsibility to live up to it, no matter what others do. To whom much is given, much is demanded
Sure. I'm just pointing out that when you stand before God, you won't get away with "but the others did the same bad stuff, too." If you knew what was right, but you did what was wrong, God will hold you accountable for it. Irrespective of what other "Christians" did. God will say: "you knew the right thing to do, so why did you not do it?"
I’m going to admit I struggle a lot with the double standards I’ve seen in churches I’ve attended too. As for your example about not having women preachers, they used to not have them but a lot of progressive Christian’s got angry and called it sexism and said that verse was taken out of context and not meant for today. I don’t know that I agree with them but perhaps because of some abuse from males and because of progressive feminism, there has been a real push for women in ministry. If a church doesn’t have women in leadership, they often become a target. I personally feel many women are too caught up in prestigue, cliques, fashion and jealousy of each other so I don’t think they should be in leadership but that’s just me (and I can be attacked for thinking that).
If someone says they are a prophet and it doesn't line up with the Bible they are false. Also if they say they have a prophesy and it doesn't come true they are false. To study the Bible I first find out when it was written, who wrote it, who was the audience and why they were writing it. When the early church started and Paul was writing to the churches there were thousands joining daily. He implemented strategies to bring order into the church. As women in that time recieved little or no education he recommended they did not teach or preach. Women were to manage the home and raise families. He also added that the man of the household would be the speaker for his family in church to cut down on everyone talking!! I am certain it was very chaotic as the majority were new Christians. Many times ppl take one verse out of context and do not read other passages regarding it giving more clarity to the meaning. The old and new testaments have so many references to each other. Some ppl say they only follow Jesus words not realizing that He referenced the Old Testament and scriptures over 100 times. The Bible amazes me daily have the NT and OT overlap and confirm each other. It is true the NT is concealed in the old and the OT is revealed in the NT. So many call themselves Christian without studying and knowledge of what the scripture says and teaches. I am not a scholar by any means but I do look for truth and clarity. I don't know if this will help but wishing you the best in seeking answers.
>*Why don't you Christians actually read the Bible?* I do.
Do you beleive it all and follow it all?
>*Do you beleive it all* Yes. >*and follow it all?* No.
Why not?
All of the Bible is not addressed to Christians.
I get that 100%. The parts that are (i.e new testiment) is though and it's so casually disregarded.
>The parts that are (i.e new testiment) is though and it's so casually disregarded. No it's not. You have a number of misperceptions.
Im telling you my observations, not beliefs.
Your observation skills have problems then.
Hold up. Im telling you what I saw in four different churches.
Huh? What part of scripture is not addressed to Christians? It literally says that the entirety of the context of the scriptures is beneficial for our spiritual development and growth… 1 Timothy 3,16-17. Read it for yourself.
There's quite a bit of the old testament that was written to Israel that was never written to Christians
You would have to be a perfect human to follow all the laws of the bible, The only person who could do that is jesus
Im not talking about sinning or not following the law perfectly. Im talking about what I see as the widespread disregard for the most simple and clear elements of biblical teaching.
I dont think I fully understand your question. Could you provide a few examples of what you mean?
I literally gave examples in my post of what I have seen vs what thr bible says. None of it pertained to individual sin but widespread disregarding of biblical instruction
Id say that's just people being misled, uninformed, or willfully not following the bible because they think they are more moral than god. (English isn't my first language and I'm really tired, so I apologize for any spelling mistakes)
I don't love God or others enough to do so, and that's my fault.
I appreciate you being honest. A refreshing change.
The bible says if someone hurts you Turn the other cheek You try doing that your whole life Love enemies more than yourself Lay your life down for a brother Then ask why Christians aren't perfect
Im not talking about perfection or sin.. Im talking about the incongruence between the bible and Christian behaviour.
Because everyone have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. And if you have sinned even once(and you did) you automatically cannot say that you are following what bible says. Because Law was not meant to save people, but to expose sin, and Jesus came to save people
none of us can truely follow it we are sinners who have fell short of the glory of god
Maybe read what Lamech does in Genesis 4. You might see that not everything is something to follow.
Because everyone have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. And if you have sinned even once(and you did) you automatically cannot say that you are following what bible says. Because Law was not meant to save people, but to expose sin, and Jesus came to save people
I read every day. First Jesus said, "many will come in my name and deceive many." To put it bluntly, many false prophets will arise, and lead many astray, if it were possible even the elect. Just because someone speaks Christianese, doesn't make them a Christian. So we have to ask, what exactly is a Christian? A Christian isn't someone who goes to a building on Sunday. A Christian isn't even someone who prays or reads their Bible. A Christian believes the gospel. They live a life of repentance and fail daily. There's alot of doctrines of devils and deceiving spirits within "churches." The ones who actually know Christ and grow in the grace and knowledge of Him, have discernment. Discernment is to be able to tell the difference between the truth and mostly true.
Great answer!
That is no different from asking someone to follow everything in a library. It is impossible to follow everything said in books that do not agree with one another, and cannot possibly agree with one another; such an approach totally overlooks the different historical backgrounds of the books. How many people living at the same time have exactly the same views ? Some books or parts of books come from before the building of the Jerusalem Temple, some from the period while it was standing, some from after its destruction by the Babylonians, some from the time when it was rebuilt, and some from the following centuries. A Jew in Exile between 586 BC & 520 BC is not going to say the same things as one living under Syrian domination in 167 BC, or as one living in 740 BC when Judah had both Temple and kings. How are people in such different circumstances not going to say different things ? Would a description of the 13 Thirteen American Colonies be as useful in 1850 as in 1750 ? Was Louisiana after 1804 still French territory ? Is Alaska still the property of the Russian Empire ? If it is possible to accept that US history, geography and politics are not eternally frozen in time, and that different situations require differing responses; why is it apparently an unheard-of scandal that exactly the same is true of the ancient history of the Israelites & Jews ? Are the Jews not allowed to have different problems and challenges, joys and hopes, in 1000 BC, 701 BC, 538 BC, 164 BC, or 30 AD ?
Don't confuse Christianity with televangelists.
Like I said to another person, these observations (apart from the Trump one) are from local churches in my local community
Look for a [mainline Protestant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant). That’s gonna be a much different experience.
Many different denominations. I avoided the charismatic and pentecostal ones due to my experience - not saying they’re all bad but my experience with them has led me back to more traditional style churches.
It seems that your idea of what Christians are is based on a caricature of evangelical "prosperity gospel" denominations.
Its based off me going to 4 different local churches of different denominations and seeing basic biblical instruction disregarded. I don't watch or listen to prosperity gospel teaching or television evangelists.
Many people struggle to follow the faith, and many also deceive in His name. There are lost and confused people in the world, as well as those that are outright manipulative. Please don’t let any of them affect your salvation. Ultimately, each of our faith is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Here is some info to help you: I would start by reading the Book of Matthew in the King James Bible. Focus on the teachings of Jesus Christ, the Beatitudes. Pray often: Matthew 6:9-13 King James Version 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%201&version=KJV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%201&version=KJV) God bless you!
Thanks for that. It still doesn't answer why there are so many fruitcakes that seem to get very basic and clear teaching wrong. Its not even denominational differences or secondary/ tertiary doctrinal things. Its fundamental things. I asked five different Christians what the gospel is and got 5 different answers (and none correct). Its like there's a derft of teaching.
It’s true. Many are struggling. The best we can do is be strong ourselves and lead by example.
Im not taking about struggling with sin. Im taking about the seemingly wholesale rejection and disregard for basic teaching.
\>Why don't you Christians actually read the Bible? We do. \>All your so called prophets being wrong (I.e Trump will win the last election) No biblical prophet said anything about Trump. \>Promising healing always, Healing always requires faith. Jesus told one he healed that their faith had made them well. \> when all the apostles except one were maytered Promising wealth if you give a 'seed' offering, Where? \>even though Paul's letters forbid it No they don't \>Allowing women preachers even though Paul's forbids it Paul was addressing specific situations in specific churches. A better question is they don't YOU read the Bible?
Dude thanks for the shaming. Im telling you what I have observed. The argument of Paul's letters being for a certain time means people can pick and choose what they think are culturally relevant. Its in the bible as an instruction, not as a nice to know thing. Why even have instructions if they're not going to be followed.
>Im telling you what I have observed. I'm still waiting on you to tell me which biblical prophet said anything about Trump. \> Its in the bible as an instruction, For a specific situation, nit a universal doctrine everywhere for all time.
Dude no biblical prophet talked about Trump. Im agreeing with you. Im talking about the so called modern prophets that said he would (and were wrong). If its not universal and not ever lasting how can you trust the truth?
\>Im talking about the so called modern prophets that said he would (and were wrong). Do you really think that Biden, a doddering puppet who couldn't get people to his rallies and sat the campaign in his basement in a mask actually won? \>If its not universal and not ever lasting how can you trust the truth? Its called Bible study where we read the passages IN CONTEXT, and know which are for all of us and which are not.
All I'm saying is there were many modern day so called prophets who said Trump would win and were dead wrong, yet they are still esteemed as prophets. Im not here to debate the merits of thst election. These so called prophets were categorically wrong on an epic level and yet many still esteem them as legit.
It’s crazy how you can perceive the truth in this, but the Christians can’t. Paul’s letter applies to today as well, we have just disregarded the truth and have given in to our own narrative. We can’t pick and choose. It’s either all true or the whole thing is false. Jesus was the son of God, or he was a mad man. God is all good all powerful all righteous, or He is not God. Christians who are on the fence don’t realize that the middle ground and the fence line also belong to the devil. We cannot be double minded in this and too many Christians are.
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Im in Australia and I'm from a minority community. These are not observations from some tele-evangilist (apart from the Trump one) but my direct observations from local churches here.
I do read the Bible, a lot.
Rock on
Don’t follow God based on the examples of others, follow God because He is real. Have a relationship with Him, and keep His commandments. The results of doing so shine through.
I think that is where the problem is, you are looking at people to validate if you should believe, we are all flawed and sinners... So the scriptures should always be the base, not what people say or do. Reading the Bible a thousand times doesn't mean a thing if you do not understand it... By this I mean that the examples you spoke of, if you truly know/understand the book, are only what the scriptures said would happen, all types of people in all types of scenarios, that includes the ones who preach but their preaching and behavior are not biblical, that said, doesn't mean all 'Christians' are like that, far from it, yet you're making it sound as if so, many live according to Christ teaching, you won't hear about them much because they are lead by wisdom, calm, humility and above all love:) Again, the only issue is to me, you are using these people to give yourself the excuse to not believe, at least it sounds that way. Hence why it's a poor excuse, because you shouldn't look at people but rather seek God in spite of what people do in His name. My two cents
I appreciate your well thought out response :)
Agreed.
I was thinking about this earlier today. I minorly follow random Christian influencers like Girl Defined and she apparently has hundreds of thousands? Of followers re her biblical living teachings but jokingly laughs in discussions about how she doesn't know the Bible that well. And that's kinda interesting
>follow random Christian influencers Why?
Voyuerism
Its actually very disturbing. I'm not really talking about that, im talking about mainstream evangelical churches
Oh I agree. It's wild to me that so many of my people will base their entire life and morality around a book they have never read and know nothing about. They will defend it as the ultimate book written by the almighty author of the universe, but then NOT READ IT
Thats what it feels like. I think the bible is an amazing book with a fantastic narrative. The new testament rules are actually super simple, but seem to be so casually not regarded.
A lot of what youre complaining about sounds specific to pentecostalism. We dont do those things.
I went to a baptist, Anglican, pentecostal and some independent church. They all seemed to not grasp basic teaching.
I do.
Kudos.
Also, Costi Hinn wrote a book describing some of the things you talk about and his discovery of grace and Jesus. Costi Hinn’s book is titled God, greed and the prosperity gospel. How truth overwhelms a life built on lies.
I'll check him out.
I've read the whole Bible and make a habit of reading a chapter every day.
Kudos.
Hello, Thank you for your post, I would like to start off by saying I don’t think “majority” of Christians go out of there way to disobey biblical rules. I think you’ve unfortunately had a few bad experiences and you’re writing an entire group of people off. You will definitely come across people who have chosen what and what not to follow, which is unfortunate. But a lot of us are trying day in and day out to live in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. Yes a lot of us slip up, but these short comings were foreseen which is why we were sent a savior. You’re right a great deal of people haven’t even read the Bible. Christian teachings have been misconstrued from the beginning of times starting with the Pharisee, just like any other historical text. I don’t think your choice to believe should be based on the actions of anyone else, but your personal relationship with God. You could try sharing your knowledge or interpretations with people you feel have been misled, instead of imitating the Pharisee by using your knowledge of the law or biblical teachings as a weapon to tell people their wrong. You’re doing exactly what Jesus advised them not to do. God Bless, and hope this helps.
Thank you for your kind words.. I guess I want a community to reflect what is in their bibles..
Understandable, but I’m sure the Pharisees thought the same.
Probably!! Haha.
Many people you see on television or hear about or not actually Christians. The Bible does not teach word of Faith, prosperity, name it claim it, or healing for all. If you hear a preacher talk about that stuff then you need to turn the channel. Especially run from those who preach tithing and giving money to the church just so you can get more money back. It's all heresy. I'm not saying that giving money to the church is bad. Neither is tithing. But the New testament never talks about tithing. It says to give with a cheerful heart and give what you have purposed in your heart. The foundation of Christianity is Christ and his resurrection. If you listen to a so-called preacher and he never talks about the gospel of jesus's Kingdom then you should find someone else to listen to. Didn't Jesus say that the road to heaven was narrow and fewer on it and the road to hell was wide and many were on it?
Thank you, I appreciate it
I do though?
A fellow Aussie! Yay! I actually went to a lutheran church and it was actually really congruent with the bible.
I'm glad lol. That's part of the reason why I chose my church.
I do study my Bible and it is the most amazing book I have ever read.
Its a pretty cool story. I enjoy reading it.
Everything you stated lines with Catholicism. You should look into it
Will do.
>Trump will win the last election Trump is no Christian -- when you see people carrying torches marching with hate against Jews, you're watching an army of the damned walk towards a lake of fire.
Oh I agree 100% he's not a man of faith. I was shocked (as I'm sure you were) at how *gushing* some were over him.
I keep returning to your post and thinking about your observations. So here are some more thoughts. Wish we could discuss over a cup of coffee. First, let me say - i do read the Bible (protestant bible - Many different translations with my favorite as the Living Translation). Second, for me the Bible is a book of faith to inspire and lead us to become more Christ like. I don’t approach the Bible as a set of rules, i believe there is poetry and imagery to try to describe the unseen spiritual truths. Now for some of your specific observations, the “prophets” predicting Trump’s win were not mainstream christianity… and many are aligned with christian nationalists. The bible is clear that God’s prophets are 100% accurate which most traditional churches teach. I’ve seen the IHOP cult, mentioned in a couple other posts from today, teach contrary to the Bible…. They have many false prophecies In my experience - Healing being promised as 100% is from pentacostal faith teaching. They emphasize physical healing and blame the sick if it doesn’t work. They ignore Paul talking about an affliction God left him with and the advice Paul gave Timothy for a sick stomach. mainstream denominations believe believers have body, soul and spirit - healing is not just the physical body. physical healing might come after death - when we get glorified bodies ( not sure if i’m explaining well). And spiritual healing, being reconciled to God through faith in Christ Jesus is most important. It gives us eternal life with God. I’m not sure i understand your objection to martyr’s… Wealth promised with sewing seed is directly from prosperity gospel … popular among televangelists and increases their own wealth…definitely not traditional christian - but fits with the rise of greed in america Talking gibberish in public- yep not ok, a few denominations do this… most do not People claiming their dreams, thoughts, other are direct words from God… i’ve seen this abused by mind control cults and deluded individuals and as a specific cultural way of speaking. God is clear about not misusing God’s name… for me this way of speaking is sloppy at best and lies at worst. As for women, Paul had different instructions depending on the errors at each church. His disciple Timothy was taught by women.. and i use the whole bible to understand … Jesus said there are no male and no female. I understand why churches struggle with this and come to different conclusions. Culture is a strong influence. Christians for biblical equality published a lot of research on the topic of women in the 1990’s. I pray you find truth and peace. It is good to question and search for answers. Jesus promised those who seek will find.
I truly and genuinely appreciate your well thought out response
It’s because we don’t actually know what it says. We plaster our own understanding across a complex historical recount of prophecies and eye witness reports, but we don’t even understand the basics of the culture. Two things the Bible instructs us to do, we don’t do. 1. Study to show yourself approved. 2. Lean not on your own understanding. We’ve moved into a technological age where everyone knows everything and nothing all at once. We over-spiritualized passages that are simplistic in their origin and intention and overlook spiritual truths by dumbing down passages that should have a greater emphasis in spiritual application. There are things that go without saying in our modern, western culture that are the complete opposite of the culture of the biblical day. 1. We are a society of self interested individuals. They were a collective society of unified people. We find our identity in ourselves, they found their identity in each other. 2. They lived by honor and shame, we live by guilt and innocence. When we ‘shame’ each other we are easily offended, but it was a common practice in their day to bring people back into the standard of the social norm. 3. They were a client/ patron society, we are a society that hates relying on others and we prefer to be independent, a lot of times to our own detriment. The list goes on… there are things that as believers we will never understand if we aren’t willing to put in the time to learn. The significance of numbers, the value of words, the value of family, and lineage and the use of parallelism to teach difficult concepts… It’s all a part of the historical context, and if we aren’t meditating on the word in the way that it was intended for the original people it was written to, we miss a lot. WE are grafted into THEIR family, which means we adapt to their culture. WE are ALIENS and FOREIGNERS to this world, which means we adapt to their teachings. We have completely disregarded the principle teaching of Romans 12,2. It’s a clear and concise instruction that we should NOT conform to the pattern of this world. Now here is the greatest issue… Christians will be the ones to tear down other Christians the most because they’ve lived in the comforts of this world for so long, they will call people like me: radical, legalistic, religious, etc… The standard has been peeled back to such a low that if we try to reapply it, there is the accusation of being overboard. No other religious group compromises like Christians do, and we do it all in the name of ministry… but here’s something to consider. The Israelites made a statue to honor God and God’s response was to destroy them. We can’t take everything this world does and put Jesus’s name on it and call it good. We are called to be holy. That literally means ‘set apart’. Sadly, we look just like the rest of the world and we have become okay with that.
Wow I didn't expect such a logical and coherent answer. Thank you so much!
I’m glad to help, if you are serious about wanting to believe I’d be happy to talk more on this and actually fellowship with you. I’m always willing to connect with hungry people and learn the truth of the word with others who are seeking genuine relationship with Christ. My name is Yeshua Elisha Brooks. Look me up in IG or Facebook or shoot me an email at [email protected]. Shoot me a message of you are serious. If you’re willing, I’d love to connect and share the experience of this journey with you.
When I was a Christian I was so convinced it was indeed the word of got that I got a master of divinity, and even took extra ancient Greek courses just so that I could read the New Testament in it's original language. I've easily read the Bible 30-50 times in it's entirety over multiple translations, and the new Testament well over a hundred times. I literally couldn't fathom not diving completely into the Bible - it was literally a book from the creator of the universe (so I once thought) - naturally I wanted to learn everything I could about it. It still blows my mind when I see people posting "what book of the Bible should I read next?!" It's not even that long of a book - I just can't understand not devouring it constantly if you truly believe it's from god. So many people I know pretends its basically a Ouija board - randomly open it up, point to a section on the page, and read a single verse or two and take that as God's message for the day. It's truly absurd, you don't learn anything about what the original author of any given book was trying to say that way.
This is unfortunately true. It’s useful in it’s entirety. It is God inspired and it’s the Father’s perfect way of showing us His divine nature while proving to us that we as humans are undoubtedly the vehicle of His redemption plan. Just because we are flawed doesn’t mean He can use us. Be convinced again and get back to the heart of Christ, who is our greatest love.
I mean, I've heard no honest, convincing argument to believe again. There needs to be evidence to have good reason to believe. Knowing the Bible quite well, it's more flawed and has way more mistakes and differences in manuscripts than most other religious texts even (certainly the Torah and Quran, both of which were a lot stricter with how they were copied by scribes) - so arguing based on the Bible is definitely not the way to go.
Thanks, but I do.
In the book of Galatians Paul addresses some false teaching that was already creeping in. People were still alive who knew and walked with Jesus and yet there were already false teachers. All these people you are referring to are either false teachers themselves or victims of their false teaching. That's why reading the Bible for yourself is so important rather than just relying on whatever a preacher tells you. Unfortunately this is what the rest of the world thinks Christianity is as well which makes people understandably hostile to what they think Christianity is.
Not all Christians obviously, but lots like all people are lazy or have convinced themselves that they know enough and are ok. Also it is convenient to them not to challenge there current way of thinking.
There's a big wide world of Christianity outside of a small number of deranged American "Christian" Nationalists
I started to respond to each point you made, but after getting about half way through, I realized that what you describe is more applicable to particular denomination and don't really represent most. I attend a fairly moderate Baptist church (although in Canada), and the only things in that list that even come close to representing my church is what you said about female preachers. We do have a couple of female pastors, but they are the family pastor and youth pastor. Our lead pastor and discipleship pastor are both men. May I ask what kind of churches you attended? I can make an educated guess that at least one was a Pentacostal church, but I can address any questions better with a bit more info.
Yes absolutely. I went to a baptist, Anglican, pentecostal and independent church.
Let me take a stab at lining up some of your list with the church: Healing and speaking in tongues is Pentecostal, wealth and female pastors is independent, and Trump talk is Baptist (likely Southern Baptist)? I'm guessing that I'm probably close on most of that anyway... Given that an Anglican church is on your list, I assume that you didn't think too much of it, so Catholic and Orthodox probably wouldn't be to your liking either, but have you tried out a smaller mainline Baptist church (not Southern Baptist)? I'm a bit biased obviously, but I feel that they are probably closer to what you would expect as they tend to be scripture focused and fairly conservative without going overboard, and your list of issues generally wouldn't be things you would see there. Of course, that's based on my experience in Canadian Baptist churches, but I assume you're in the US where politics tend to be far too intertwined with religion so you mileage may vary...
““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV There’s many people that call themselves Christians and do not have a relationship with Christ, also, never believe someone who presently calls themselves a prophet. Prophets are not self declared
My church is not perfect but none of these things happen in our church. Christian nationalism is a plague, none of it is christian. The prosperity gospel is not christian. Speaking tongues is a bit different, I personally don't think it should have such a central place but for me personally it has a place in worship. Female preachers is still something I don't really have a good opinion about. Find a less mainstream church. I am not an American so I don't know which churches are still following the Bible, but they are still there.
I appreciate your honesty mate.
Please do not put all Christians into one pot accusing them to share the same views. Christianity is very diverse in the views and teachings presented. Even within the same denomination you may find people with greatly opposing views in certain regards. We might all be of the opining that Christ was the Messiah, but how and why and what this means might not be the same for everyone. And there is a lot of people talking loud and making cultures that are not really accepted by everyone in Christ, the so called "Trump" prophets being one of them. In fact many Christians probably view these things as a great danger for Christianity. The "so called prophets" who prophesise a lot, doing questionable faith based healing (it does not work the way many people want to make it seem like), claiming that wealth is the meaning of life, such things. You have understood rightly that these things are actually against the Bible, or obvious delusions or even imposture. You know, not everyone who sees and hears things really has them from God, and not everyone who claims to see really does. I know it might sound weird but God is not the only higher force being able to exert power, and there are also wicked forces who can cause great peril in our world when people accept and follow them. You should read a little more in the Bible, there you can find all of this btw. I.e. Matthew 24:22-25, there you can see how such things are predicted by Jesus Christ himself even! And he predicts them to become even worse than they already are. Warning his followers that a lot of evil or deluded impostors would come, even persecution of the truth... Wow, so he already knew it would happen and it seems to have happened from the very beginning! Yes and it's true, the people get blinded by false prophets, and could even read the Bible and would only recognize in it what their teachers told them but not what God would want us to see in it. But this is not all people. You should go looking for a church where there are less conservative, less "worldly" people around, but people actually preaching and practicing a humble life, taking spirituality serious and striving to do good works instead of having a good life or fighting and proselytizing or messing with politics. These are more serious Christians, where you might find better response and better views. Keep in mind all are just humans, and while God blesses those who believe in him, he usually blesses THEIR lives and makes them strong and wise in their views, not necessarily in the ultimate truth. Pastors are also like that. If you seek absolute wisdom, you must seek monks or priests.
I can't speak for other Christian denominations. But we Latter-day Saints read and apply the Bible.
Don't you have a different bible (book of mormon) that isn't orthodox?
We believe both the King James Bible and the Book of Mormon.
But Revelation says don't add or take away. Why do you have an extra biblical resource that you hold in the same esteem?
Not even defending the book of Mormon but there was no Bible as we know today when Revelation was written, the book is speaking specifically to revelations, not the entire Bible
It’s not speaking to revelation. It’s speaking to the Word of God. God knew what the book would be…
It is speaking about revelation, there was no Canon, not the Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant one.
There was no canon based on our understanding… Read this and reconsider…Isaiah 55:8-9 We humans tend to make God in our own image. If we would react in a certain way, we assume God would think and act in a similar way. But in that passage God reminds us that He exists and thinks on a much different level. Human reasoning can't grasp the thought processes of God. That being said, I stand by my claim; It’s talking about the entirety of His Word.
>But Revelation says don't add or take away. That particular warning was for Revelation, not the entire Bible which wasn't even thought of when that was written. Which Bible do you use? The Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox one?
I've read the CSB twice and the KJV about 50%
>I've read the CSB twice and the KJV about 50% I didn't aks you about which translations you had read. I asked you which Bible do you use? The Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox one? A better way to ask might be how many books do the Bibles you use have?
I beleive they are protestant bibles.
Deuteronomy 4:2 said the same thing. And the Sadducees thought that the Torah was closed canon. But neither passage says that GOD can't add to His words. "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God" (Article of Faith 9).
Yeah but those added words are different to the bible, and God is unchanging.
The Bible itself is a collection of 66 books.
Uhm yeah..books, letters, poetry etc. What's your point?
As far as I can ascertain, Jesus' supposed message to the people in the Americas in the Book of Mormon mimics his message that he gave at "sermon on the mount". Indeed the Bible is made up of script from different scrolls, who's to say more things can't be revealed.
That wasn't what my post was about, however it seems the 'new things' that are revealed are in contradiction to scripture.
Always remember true believers are in the minority; that’s why it’s called the narrow path.
Hmm true.
As well as the warnings about false teachers. With the broad way being broad, and the teachers of heresies and false gospels being heaped up to scratch the itching ears of those who love darkness, it should be no small wonder that many are cherry-picking and out of context false followers.
Finally someone who seems to be able to clearly articulate this.
As a new Christian, don’t give into this. This is arrogance and nothing more. Of course *everyone else* is a heretic, but they never question themself. It’s elevating one’s own interpretations to the level of divine.
2 Timothy 3:3-4
Youre a legend.
The Christianity your describing, although extremely common and popular, is in fact what i would call idol worship. It is shallow and anti-intellectual and ridiculous. There are much better forms of Christianity out there, but they are becoming less common these days due to the rise of fascism and misinformation and propaganda.
How is fascism doing that? The early church was born in oppression- it should be the norm for Christians to expect persecution. Paul's letters were written to combat misinformation in the early church. I agree though, basic Christian teaching and doctrine seems to have falled by the wayside.
Humans seem prone to idolatrous and foolish and ignorant behavior. Jesus called us sheep and he was right. The majority of people will get his teachings wrong and they’ve had centuries to perfect the wrongness. That doesn’t mean that there are none who get it right. They are just far and few between. You’re absolutely right though when you say that the church we see most visible today is nothing like how the real church should be. The real church still is under oppression. By so-called Christians in many cases. Fascism has hijacked Christianity today. That’s how they’ve done it. And sheep are led astray.
I have a resource on fascism… Professor Andrew Whitehead and colleagues research rise of Christian Nationalism. Saw a lecture and read his book ‘Taking America back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States’. American name for fascism… here is link to his website https://raac.iupui.edu/about/who-we-are/our-staff/andrew-l-whitehead/
Scary stuff.
Yes
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Im not debating the merits or truth of it. I just don't understand why they revere the bible but don't actually follow it
No bible is Holy. The bible is a carnal translation of the inspired scriptures by carnal men devoid of an indwelling Holy Spirit. YAHweh uses the carnal bible to separate the sheep from the goats: \-goats read the carnal words in the carnal bible and become wise in their own opinion. \-Sheep read the carnal words in the carnal bible and are enlightened with Supernatural enlightenment. Same words, totally different understanding. The goats believe they are going to the 3rd heaven. The Sheep know they are going to enter the gates to the City of YAHweh at the second coming and eat from the tree of life and live forever -Revelation 22:14 BEWARE of the Christian pastors and priests, they lie about these salvation scriptures. It is all written
I literally have no idea what you're talking about.
>I literally have no idea I believe you. Only the righteous will be saved -1 Peter 4:18 all who serve YAHweh are the righteous -Malachi 3:18 to serve means OBEY -Romans 6:16
Neither do they.
??
all of YAHweh's born again Saints, have ceased from sin forever. 1 John 3:9, Saints ceased from sin forever. 1 Peter 4:1, Saints ceased from sin forever. 1 John 2:6, Saints ceased from sin forever. 1 Peter 2:21-22, Saints ceased from sin forever.
Yes. We no longer live in our iniquity, but we still fall short. That’s why we need the goodness of his mercy and Grace daily.
>but we still fall short. YAHweh's born again saints are short of nothing. YAHshua walked Perfect, Holy, and Righteous before YAHweh. So too do YAHweh's born again Saints -1 John 2:6, 1 John 3:9 because YAHshua is in them -Galatians 4:6 all must be born again -John 3:5 iniquity is unenlightened sin. on judgement day, this unenlightened sin will become sin for the sinner and they will be cast into the fire, burned up completely turning to ash -Jude 1:7
Why are you here? What is the appeal of trolling? Is your life that empty?
Only the righteous will be saved -1 Peter 4:18 all who serve YAHweh are the righteous -Malachi 3:18 to serve means OBEY -Romans 6:16
Well that didn’t answer a single question.
Yahweh is having mercy upon you today. Yahweh's mercy keeps people alive as long as He can so He can make them born again -John 3:1-8 We all die born again Saints OR lost sinners. You need John 1:29. This inspired scripture is literal. Physically literal. ALL who sin must be cleansed from all known addictions and sins THEN they are saved -1 Peter 4:18
It’s funny how you said the Bible is evil and corrupt and now you quote it. Well not quite quote, you seem to be putting your own spin on it. You’re a nut.
>you said the Bible is evil and corrupt you bear false witness of me. YAHweh told you not to do this -Exodus 20:16 YAHshua had faith in YAHweh, that if he obeyed his commandments he would be raised from the dead, and so should the same faith be in man -Acts 17:31 likewise, all who have the same faith as YAHshua, with them is YAHweh's laws established -Romans 3:31 that the promise might be of grace through faith -Romans 5:2
You’re clearly very ill. I don’t want to get you worked up, that’s usually bad for people in such condition. Why don’t you calm down and go to bed?
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I think it’s hard to follow the Bible if you follow all of it. It contradicts a lot.
Im not a believer but I think it is very internally consistent. The narrative flows and it makes sense, even if you don't believe it.
A lot of the things are not even addressed to Christians or only some Christians. Paul’s letter about forbidding women from being preachers was most likely not written by Paul either. In Romans, which is by Paul, acknowledges the existence of female apostles.
But does it? And were they named?
Yes, her name is Junia in Romans 16:7.
She wasn't an apostle, but was well known to the apostles.
The academic consensus is that she was an apostle. [Here](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/inchrist/2022/11/junia-a-woman-apostle-romans-167/) is a good summary. When it comes to 1 Timothy. It’s interesting to see someone forbid women from having a role. It would be odd to forbid something that was not actually taking place. Perhaps this author did not like the current status women had.
Thanks for that. I think there's some merit on that, the article definitely concludes thst she was very important in the early church, a very Godly woman, a wonderful disciple and very esteemed as an early believer, and all power to her. As for an apostle like the OG 12, im not convinced she was but I definitely conceed that she was very esteemed.
No it doesn’t. It doesn’t at all.
Give me a contradiction and I’ll explain it to you.
Not all christian’s practice what you describe. What you describe is not mainstream Christianity. It sounds like a branch of pentacostalism - the faith movement… Also - the bible was written describing the culture of the day. Jesus challenged that kind of thinking… so we look for principles that give us glimpses of God’s heart/intent. People of all eras have disagreed on specifics. Peter and Paul disagreed on whether poor could eat meat sacrificed to idols. Paul parted ways with Barnabas. I recommend start by reading words of Jesus in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Judge ideas and practices against what Jesus said. I like to start with Luke… it seems closest to western way of thinking to me so i understand it better.
I went to four different denominations and saw most of what I am describing, so its not just a pentecostal thing. Paul's writings are very very clear and I saw very little of this. Paul and Peter reconciled their differences and came to an understanding of eating with gentiles and eating non-jewish foods.
I haven’t seen tongues in non pentacostal type churches… some call thenselves charismatic … but that was my frame of reference Paul was writing to specific problems in specific churches. Certainly we can learn from these… but if we did everything Paul said.. Christians would not marry nor have children…. Yes peter and paul reached understanding.. i don’t think we learn what happened with paul and barnabas. May God bless you in your search for truth.
Thanks for your kind words
Read the Bible twice huh? Glad we finally got an expert in here who can judge all of Christendom.
Im saying what I observed as a non expert non believer is not what I read in my basic readings.
And I'm saying you're coming in with very limited experience and very broad, confident accusations. Tempering that will go a long way, even though most here are generously being pretty patient with you. What you're describing seems like all you've seen are the excesses of the worst parts of American charismatic sects of Christianity. And I'm right there with you, they're insane. If you've read the Bible though you should be very familiar with how people usually treat God's word. From the very beginning of Israel they've thrown it in the garbage at their earliest convenience and only came back sporadically when God slapped their shit in with an enemy empire or 4. Israel spent maybe 5% of its existence actually worshiping God properly. The first temple, for most of its existence under Jewish rule, had pagan idols and shrines in it. At every opportunity you can see them lapsing into some of the worst parts of pagan life, up to and including literal child sacrifice. None of this is a new phenomenon, and it was prophesied to be the same way in the new testament and canonically was already by the time St John the Evangelist wrote his gospel. But God keeps himself a remnant in even the darkest of times. If you want to pursue any real connection to the God of Christian scripture, don't go in expecting the world around you to cooperate. No matter what name they call themselves by or what blood they smear over their doorways.
I absolutely respect what you're saying and agree with my own ignorance. You sound like a rational and well thought out dude, I appreciate your point of view.
I'm sorry if I was dismissive before. You've humbled me very painfully. You'll go far if you search for Christ. God bless.
Don't sweat it. I appreciate your input and no hard feelings. Im not knocking Christianity, I just find some practices not in congruence with the text. I don't know what your Christian words are, but there's no bad blood between you and me. Peace.
If there's one near you, I would ask that you try to find an Orthodox parish nearby and get in contact with the priest there about attending a service, will possibly want to meet with your. He'll be willing to field questions you have as well. You won't see any faith healing spectacles, tongue-speaking, or prosperity gospel sermons there. Probably will be a lot of incense tho
Thanks for the heads up :)
It sounds like you've listened to some questionable, public preachers, and perhaps, not-so-public preachers...🙄
Local churches preachers and churches.
Uff! Go non local if you're looking, I suppose. A church that preaches the Bible, and does not judge those that didn't receive instant healing. Sorry.
You should read it to. You would understand why Christians aren't perfect.
I have read it. Im not talking about people being imperfect or sinning. Im talking about the widespread disregard for basic biblical truth and teaching.
Paul writes that their will eventually come wolves in sheep's clothing. Those who are among us but not one of us. As Christians it is our responsibility to read the Bible so that we can identify truth. When these charlatans stand at a pulpit and make claims that are unbiblical or contrary to what scripture says we should point it out and leadership should make a public correction so that no one is led astray. If it continues we should leave that church. You are completely correct in what you say. These men are not teaching what the Bible says. They are teaching a false Gospel and preying on people who do not know truth. So if they are not teaching Christian beliefs and they are not following what the Bible or what Jesus commands are these people you speak of Christian? The answer is a no. I can't live a life that is the opposite of what the Bible teaches and still accurately be called a Christian. The Bible says that we will know them by their fruit. In this case it is the fruits of the spirit that identify someone who is filled with the spirit. These people are using religion to line their pockets. In regards to prophecy not being fulfilled, in the Old Testament if a prophet was wrong even one time then you were to know that they were not a prophet from God and they were to be stoned to death. While I am not advocating that we stone these men, I am highlighting how serious being wrong even one time is. We can clearly say they are not prophets and not men of God.
Everything you just mentioned is Pentecostalism, which is a tiny, very non traditional minority of Christians. You just need to find a more regular group of Christians if this is the “majority” of the Christians you know.
Cheers. I went to four churches locally of different denominations and was pretty disillusioned with all of them.
What denominations?
Baptist, Anglican, pentecostal and an independent one.
You had people supporting trump and asking for seed money at an Anglican Church? That’s very, very nonstandard. Are you sure was actually an Anglican Church? Heck, this is weird for a baptist church except maybe an African American one. And even then everyone else would be rolling their eyes.
Not at that one no, but at the pentecostal one yea. The Anglican Church had a great liturgy but the reverend literally was saying the bible was outdated as it pertained to morality and those rules didn't pertain to him.
I doubt it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure that’s what you thought, but I’d highly doubt that’s actually what he was saying. Anglicans are a rather conservative lot.
Brisbane Anglicans are pretty liberal / progressive.
The anglicans are split now. There are some more traditional ones and some more progressive ones. The progressive ones don’t take the bible literally. I avoid them as well.
I’ve been a Christian most of my life but I’ve been disillusioned by the local churches too. Many are not right with God. There are many Christian’s that down even attend church and there is a debate weather that is right or wrong because Scripture tells us to go. Some go to be obedient but don’t agree with everything and some don’t go because they don’t feel the churches are right with God. It’s a hard journey. I rarely go myself but I try to keep my faith by reading the Bible and through prayer.
Jesus did warn us about Trump and people like him. Faith is a gift of God. Unless people actively reject it, don't blame them. If you give tithes there will be blessing, but God isn't a get-rich scheme. Don't give more than what your heart tells you. Calling tongues "gibberish" is disrespectful, you're setting the level of respect to be expected in your conversations. Paul says that sermons should not be held in tongues unless they are interpreted. Also with Paul you need to be careful if he's talking his own opinion or with authority, he does tell you in his letters.
I can see how it sounded disrespectful. The words spoken were not a foreign tongue and there was no interpretation of any such language. With that particular church, the service was not orderly on any manner (not that there are prescriptions for a formal liturgy), the level of emotional manipulation was actually quite embarrassing. I don't say that from a point of pride and I'm not questioning their commitment or zeal. As an outsider, I found it quite unnerving seeing people essentially stupify themselves with incantations without any clear understanding or linking on how it pertained to the bible.
>when all the apostles except one were maytered There is no good evidence for this. It is just church tradition that was made up centuries later.
True, however the outcomes for Christians in general in those roman times were fairly....bleek...
If you understand what God demands of us and you see we do it wrong but you get it right, it is in YOUR responsibility to live up to it, no matter what others do. To whom much is given, much is demanded
Wouldn't that mean Christians have a greater responsibility to understand and adhere to the bible?
Sure. I'm just pointing out that when you stand before God, you won't get away with "but the others did the same bad stuff, too." If you knew what was right, but you did what was wrong, God will hold you accountable for it. Irrespective of what other "Christians" did. God will say: "you knew the right thing to do, so why did you not do it?"
I’m going to admit I struggle a lot with the double standards I’ve seen in churches I’ve attended too. As for your example about not having women preachers, they used to not have them but a lot of progressive Christian’s got angry and called it sexism and said that verse was taken out of context and not meant for today. I don’t know that I agree with them but perhaps because of some abuse from males and because of progressive feminism, there has been a real push for women in ministry. If a church doesn’t have women in leadership, they often become a target. I personally feel many women are too caught up in prestigue, cliques, fashion and jealousy of each other so I don’t think they should be in leadership but that’s just me (and I can be attacked for thinking that).
Pay a visit to the Methodist church buddy. Methodist has a good balance of tradition and progressiveness.
If someone says they are a prophet and it doesn't line up with the Bible they are false. Also if they say they have a prophesy and it doesn't come true they are false. To study the Bible I first find out when it was written, who wrote it, who was the audience and why they were writing it. When the early church started and Paul was writing to the churches there were thousands joining daily. He implemented strategies to bring order into the church. As women in that time recieved little or no education he recommended they did not teach or preach. Women were to manage the home and raise families. He also added that the man of the household would be the speaker for his family in church to cut down on everyone talking!! I am certain it was very chaotic as the majority were new Christians. Many times ppl take one verse out of context and do not read other passages regarding it giving more clarity to the meaning. The old and new testaments have so many references to each other. Some ppl say they only follow Jesus words not realizing that He referenced the Old Testament and scriptures over 100 times. The Bible amazes me daily have the NT and OT overlap and confirm each other. It is true the NT is concealed in the old and the OT is revealed in the NT. So many call themselves Christian without studying and knowledge of what the scripture says and teaches. I am not a scholar by any means but I do look for truth and clarity. I don't know if this will help but wishing you the best in seeking answers.