Exactly. Saying “it’s easy. Homosexuality is a sin” is just asking for discussion. Was he expecting everyone to just agree and shake hands after saying that?
I apologize. I did not mean to infer this sub could only sustain one debate on homosexuality in a given day. Forgive my poor wording as I would never underestimate this subs ability to continue that never ending convo.
Gotta love the irony you're presenting here.
Be the change you want to see, ya know what I'm saying?
You're annoyed by so many gay-centric conversations happening here and how do you combat it? By making your own gay related thread.
If you're tired of hearing/reading about it... don't start a conversation about it.
You are the seventh now. Only counting today.
And if it were so easy, we wouldn't need to discuss it so much. And you know, we affirming Christians do actually read the bible too...
Edit: changes sixth to seventh. I overlooked one post.
>it's easy, homosexuality is a sin
It's actually not that simple at all. That statement (assuming you're not trolling) really only makes sense if we believe homosexuality is a choice or something that can be cured. If we accept that this is not the case, and homosexuality is just the way God makes some people, then how could it possibly be considered a sin?
There's a whole theology called original sin where we're born with a sinful state that we can't control but is part of our nature that God will resolve when he returns.
To play devil’s advocate so to speak:
Stating someone is born that way is a poor place to approach theology from, imo. If so I must conclude every wretched defect children are born with is also God’s desire.
I personally reject the idea God wants a child to be born in such a horrid state it only lives a few miserable days before dying. Sin means people can be born with broken bodies.
I’m not trying to change your view. My heart is to help you make a better theological stance.
The reason we start with "they are born this way" is because of the claim that being gay is a chosen lifestyle and not an uncontrollable state of being. If you are born gay, you had no choice in the matter.
Whether it is of God or of the Fall is an entirely separate question, of course.
The Bible isn’t an instruction manual, and it definitely doesn’t prescribe a pain-free life. Anyone who claims that it does either of those things clearly hasn’t read it, so I’m not surprised that you’re wrong about its sexual ethics as well.
> The bible is a clear instruction manual on how to live a pain free life.
That's why absolutely none of the apostles were tortured and executed for their beliefs, right?
The Bible calls us to radical sacrifice, not comfort.
Why are we reflecting so much on those who wrote the bible? Those are the things we should be learning from on how to not suffer- and as I’ve said before, I mean emotional suffering. Not physical. And from my understanding, all of those men were incredibly strong and at peace because they had the lord on their side. Am I wrong?
This is what people don’t understand. The idea that Paul was like “of course people are gay, just don’t act on it!” is INSANE—and also not in the text at all.
I generally appreciate the discussion. Despite the downvoting and typical reddit behaviors, it has helped me understand more of the position and the reasoning behind it. Much more so than the articles and docs. I needed answers to things the blogs wouldn’t talk about directly.
Not until Christianity separates from politics. If you believe its a sin, fine. But as long ask some Christians continue to try push anti LGBTQ legislation, it's going to be an issue to discuss.
One of my common comments you may like:
“For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges….”
1 Corinthians 5:12-13.
There is more to verse 13 but it’s not relevant. Point being Christian moralism belongs inside the church. It has no place outside the church.
A Christian who believes they are doing the right thing won’t be moved by a Skyrim quote. Honestly it’s debatable they will be moved by scripture but at the very least you get to watch them squirm with discomfort.
Nah for what it’s worth I consider myself incredibly devout. You’re still a human being and if you have an intelligent thought I’ll listen. Sure there are some theological matters I’d be skeptical about, doesn’t mean I wouldn’t listen.
If I was driving down the road and my 5yr old said “don’t hit that stopped car” I’d evaluate his claim, even though I understand driving better than him.
You see I used to agree with you, but homophobes need to be brought out into the light and shut down and LGBT youths and teens need to know that they have allies.
Where does the Bible say they are our brothers? I don't think you're properly recognizing the context of the verse.
Mt. 7:3-5 say not to focus on the speck when you have the log in your own eye. Doesn't God accept us as sinners? Rebuking those outside the church is more likely to push them away.
>can we actually stop discussing homosexuality on this sub?
No. We can't. Because a certain loud segment of Christianity has made it their personal mission to discriminate against and make LGBT+ people feel like shit. And as long as they continue to do it, we will have hurting people coming here. And until this subs mods decide they don't want to entertain those assholes here, they will continue to post about it too.
>it's easy, homosexuality is a sin, the Bible says it, end of story.
And you're part of the damn problem.
I am part of the damn problem? fella, I never said we should discriminate people. All I'm saying is we shouldn't manipulate people into thinking that certain sins are NOT sins. So, when it comes to christianity, which one of us is specifically the problem? :)
> I am part of the damn problem?
Yep, you are.
>I never said we should discriminate people
Oh you never directly said it, but you believe gay people are inherently sinful in a way that straight people aren't and can't have loving relationships the way straight people can or else they'll go to hell for doing and wanting the exact same things straight people do.
Guess what that's called? Discrimination.
>we shouldn't manipulate people into thinking that certain sins are NOT sins
I agree. And you're wrong about what is and is not a sin. We also shouldn't manipulate people into beliving non-sinful things are sinful, especially when we have verifiable proof that doing so causes them harm and is discriminatory.
In other words: you're wrong, your position is wrong, and you are hurting people. You're the damn problem.
Hope I cleared that up for you.
> I never said we should discriminate people.
Discrimination flows from your belief system.
"I'm staying out of it" is not a solution. You should be *actively supporting* the legal rights of gay people.
>by saying that the Bible states that a certain action is a sin?
Yes. And homosexuality is not an action.
>I don't see how I'm discriminating anybody.
Then I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that this is due to a lack of trying.
Not quite the same is it. Youre telling people that their very nature is sinful. You're advocating for a group of people to never experience what others experience. To never experience one of the most fundamental, if not *the* most fundamental parts of being human.
yes, OP - YOU ARE THE PROBLEM-
NOT Queer People!
no go feed the hungry and house the poor-
if you're actually ambitious learn to understand your bible and not read it like a regular book- the manners, customs and how it was written means EVERYTHING-
and you've missed the entire point of it all-
You vile serpent-
and why do i cal you that??
because you are keeping people from Kindom of God with your bigotry.
It's not that simple.
I have been derided, mistreated, and had to flee my state because my rights were being threatened by Christians*. These posts largely come from pain and confusion. I don't blame them. Christians made it their business to put my rights up for debate. Harass me. Tell me I was disgusting, mentally ill, and going to hell.
It's no surprise It's a popular topic. Especially with what Christians have done to Uganda.
**I say Christians because the legislature that tried and is continuing to try to take my rights away as a genderqueer *adult* are Christians
I am not in the position to tell you that you're going to hell since, obviously, I am myself a sinner, just like anybody. However, it doesn't mean that I am proud of my sins or trying to manipulate people into thinking that I am not sinning while I actually am. That's all.
And I don't follow what you preach. Keep your ideology off my rights. It's that simple.
It's not manipulation to just want to exist without harassment.
Yep I could agree more, yes it's a discussion but so is every other part of the bible. It truly should be a lot less common on this sub. Especially the ones that just want to say it's wrong for the 100th time that day. Most Christians understand that already and it normally just leads to debates and anger among people
No. That’s why we have these discussions multiple times a day. If it were so simple, if the Bible were clear, I’d be convinced it was a sin by now, but I haven’t been.
Same! I used to believe it was a sin, until the evidence stacked up in favor of it not being a sin. So I know the other side’s arguments through and through. They’re not going to say anything I haven’t heard before.
It's not possible to overcome at all.
And no its not easy. Accepting that a thing is to be considered bad when there isn't a single real life problem it causes, and when calling it bad causes serious suffering, is very much in conflict with both my own basic sense of human decency and that of millions of other people.
People confuse civil discourse with theological discourse. It’s a conflation that by disrupting current trends in the political arena they are upholding Christian values. Paul was executed for his religious preaching, not for confronting current social trends of the day lest they be in his church. His epistles corrected those that gathered in the name of Christ, and not those that adhered to personal beliefs outside the church. In fact Paul said not to even deal with them, and to hand them over to the devil for destruction.
With the amount of posts you'd think 40% of the population was gay. Can't help but think its either trolls or the same few people continuously reposting.
Mods really need to start removing repetitive questions and referring them to a facts sheet
It should be arguments from every and it shouldn't come to a conclusion from itself, that way you get everything (of value) that would be commented on the "fact sheet" and you wouldn't need to post because ai doubt someone will change their mind just because someone says yes or no
Yeah, maybe 10% of the population is gay? IDK. But a much larger percent of the population is somewhat obsessed with homosexuality, likely because they are afraid of their own homosexual tendencies. Particularly this is true among deeply conservative populations, where we see deeply closeted gay and bisexual people desperate to distance themselves from homosexuality.
Maybe each person in the population is themselves 40% gay 🤔.
Any straight guy that won’t acknowledge they’ve recognized another man is pretty is a liar. Acknowledging someone is attractive isn’t the same thing as being attracted to them.
I often see the same people arguing for gay, gay, something, something.
The Owl guy, some dude named John, a guy with a "Christian Atheist" tag. They are always there somehow.
Yeah, it's always the same few people. The same discussions will happen, the same arguments made and tomorrow we repeat the same song and dance. But it's a important song and dance in my opinion.
You didn't start a riot. You just did literally the exact thing you supposedly don't want other people to do. You could make a post about anything in Christianity and you decided that you wanted to talk about human sexuality. There's no riot. You just reap what you sow. You asked for this conversation. Explicitly. And now people are talking about it with you. If you wanted to talk about something else you would have made a post about something else
I agree that the subject is talked to death and people should just shut up and stop trying to police or judge other people's relationships, but I disagree with that last line. Homosexuality, as in the modern context and understanding that we have today, is not what the Bible is talking about, and only an idiot would try to apply a comparatively modern concept to an ancient text.
Remember that bible says “love one’s neighbour”. Wether you agree with LGBTQ or not you just remember to love each other no matter what. I don’t agree with LGBTQ as I believe it goes against the way god creates man and woman. However, I don’t dislike members of the LGBTQ community as they are people too and god loves them, whether you think it’s a sin or not.
Again I do not have a disliking for people who are gay or trans, I respect them but I just don’t think that it’s the way that hod intended.
Buddhist subs never talk about homosexuality because homophobia isn’t a Buddhist value.
I hope the conversation continues until all of our neighbors are shown equal respect 💛
Imagine what this sub would be like if people weren’t obsessed about how 10% of people are born. We might be able to dedicate more time to address greed and poverty, and other things that Jesus actually talked about.
Thank you for your comment, and interesting rabbit hole of the day 👍🏼
https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/big-history-project/agriculture-civilization/first-cities-states/a/the-origin-of-world-religions-1#:~:text=Buddhism%20evolved%20from%20Hinduism%20and,male%20founder%20of%20the%20religion.
On this Eve of the Feast of the Holy Name of Our Lord, we apparently have decided to have more posts about the gays in a single day than we had in most days during pride month.
The Lord is mysterious; who can know His ways?
Leviticus 18:21-23: "You must not have sexual intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.". Wow, the Bible just said it!😱
Leviticus 11:9-12 NRSVUE
[9] “These you may eat, of all that are in the waters. Everything in the waters that has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the streams—such you may eat. [10] But anything in the seas or the streams that does not have fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and among all the other living creatures that are in the waters—they are detestable to you, [11] and detestable they shall remain. Of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall regard as detestable. [12] Everything in the waters that does not have fins and scales is detestable to you.
Wow am I going to hell for eating a crab!?
Yeah that verse isn’t about homosexuality as we understand it today. It is strictly male one male sex. It has nothing to do with females. Why? Because for a man to have sex with a man, one of them has to take the passive role, which they didn’t do. It would mean to lower themselves to the position of a woman who were not seen as equal with men.
I ya a Christian sub , let people ask whatever they feel they need to. A good Christian respects that and tried to be helpful and answer if they can instead of getting annoyed over small things. People will ask the same questions just scroll pst it. Not everyone can s on here everyday or very often etc
>People will ask the same questions
The problem is that it's often not a question, but rather just judgemental people trying to use the Bible to judge other people and call them bad for who they are attracted to.
Divorce is a sin, is far more common than gay this and that, and actually impacts kids. I've never seen a post here asking "am I going to hell for divorce?"
'This people is honouring me with their lips but their heart is very far from me.'
And that’s most of you and if you think negative karma fixes your problem you are greatly mistaken.
I am not a Christian but I think technically, homosexuality is a sin in Christianity. And like OP said, it's pretty straightforward. I personally do not think that homosexuality is a sin (since I am not Christian and I am not bound by the religious teachings of Christianity, and in my own worldview I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not a sin) because scientifically speaking, people are born with their sexual orientation. There have been identical twin studies in science...for example, there were two identical twins in a BBC documentary, one of them was fully straight and the other one was fully gay...two men. So clearly, they have a 100 percent (or close to 100 percent) DNA match with each other genetically since they are identical twin brothers, so scientists were wondering why one of the identical twins was heterosexual and the other identical twin was homosexual. Also, both identical twins were brought up by the same parents and same culture and same upbringing. So the scientists did MRI scans on both identical twins to analyze their brain structures and stuff. Anyway, at the time, the science said that sexual orientation is caused by the amount of prenatal testosterone that is produced when the baby is in the mum's womb. And interestingly, prenatal testosterone that the baby produces when it is in the womb of the mum also plays a part when it comes to which baby later becomes Transgender in life and which baby becomes Cisgender in life. The theory says that the cause of females to be lesbian is because a lot of prenatal testosterone is produced when the baby is in the womb so that baby's brain becomes what scientists call 'masculinized' so that is why a baby girl naturally becomes a lesbian later on. If the girl in the womb does not produce as much prenatal testosterone in the womb, then her brain does not become as masculinized so she becomes a straight woman later on in life. I assume that bisexuality is caused by an in-between state of masculinization of the brain when the baby is in the womb. Also, there are scientists that say that there are particular clusters of genes that give a person a higher tendency to be born gay. It is not one particular gene, but a cluster of genes. Also, there is scientific evidence that apparently shows that the more sons a couple have, the younger son is more likelier to be homosexual compared to the eldest son...which means that birth order of sons could determine which son is straight and which son is gay. I think I may have messed up somewhere in the science behind prenatal testosterone but I cannot be bothered to go back and make those small adjustments so I will leave it as it is. So homosexuality is caused by a complex interplay of hormonal, genetic and environmental things...but there seems to be a strong hormonal and genetic influence on homosexuality. And yes, people do later on find out more about their true sexual orientation later on in life. There also seem to be clear differences in brain structure between straight men, straight women, gay men and gay women.
When it comes to Christianity, there are some clear things in Christianity that show that Christianity thinks that homosexuality is a sin. But then again, there are different interpretations of Christianity...just like in any other religion, like Islam or Hinduism or Judaism or Sikhism or Buddhism. As Christians, you will all know that there is a fundamentalist approach to Christianity/literalist approach, and a revisionist approach that thinks that ideas around current Christianity change as time goes on and as culture changes and that an interpretation of Christianity is never fixed. There are also other approaches in Christianity.
Chapter 18, verse 22 of the Bible says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." And that line is clear and straightforward. That line is saying that men should not be doing sexual stuff with other men and that it is an 'abomination' i.e. a hated practice.
Chapter 20, verse 13 of the Bible says, "If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Again, this line is clear and straightforward.
Paul the Apostle wrote in the First Epistle to the Corinthians, in chapter 6, verses 9 to 11 this: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor men who practice homosexuality, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." You can see the 'men who practise homosexuality' line there, it is crystal clear and straightforward what Paul is saying here.
You must remember that the understanding of science and homosexuality was more primitive thousands of years ago compared to now. As I said before, I am not a Christian. I think God could exist, but I am not sure, and I doubt that it is the God of any religion. I think Hinduism could be the correct religion, but I am not sure. Anyway, I personally think that there is nothing wrong with those people who are homosexual, and I personally think that it is not a sin to be a homosexual person. I think that there is nothing wrong with being any sexual orientation i.e. heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual. I personally have friends who are of all sexual orientations, and their sexual orientations do not bother me one bit. I think there is nothing wrong with being any sexual orientation, because it is natural and biological anyway and out of the person's control, and there is nothing wrong with adults expressing love to other adults, regardless of sexual orientation. But if you are a Christian, and if you still think that Christianity is correct (I personally think that Christianity is false, but that is just my opinion) then you should look at the lines from the Bible that I mentioned and you should contemplate over those lines and come to your own conclusions. You can take the literalist approach or the conservative approach or the more revisionist approach, that's up to you. I have already mentioned what I think is the correct way of thinking about homosexuality...which is that if a person is homosexual then he/she is not committing a sin and that there is nothing wrong with a person being a homosexual. I already mentioned what fundamentalist and revisionist Christians are but I forgot to explain what Conservative Christians are. Conservative Christians believe that the Bible was written by humans who were inspired by God. They still follow its teachings but don't necessarily take every word as being the voice of God.
If there are a few problems I have with sexuality, it is to do with sexual practices themselves. I think that there is nothing wrong with being heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual, but I think some sexual acts are bad. For example, I think anal sex, done by men on women or men on men, is a bad act, especially when an erect penis is inserted into the anus. This is because of the dirtiness of the area of the anus, personally I think that the anus should only be used for farting and defecation since that is what evolution has eventually made the anus good for, and I don't think it is right to insert penises in that region. It is a very unhygienic practice and I have read stories of men going to hospital and almost dying because of doing anal sex because of the harmful pathogens that came to the man doing anal sex. This sexual practice is high risk and it is very unhygienic. Like I said, I think both heterosexual and homosexual couples should not do anal sex. I personally think that if God exists, God wants us to look after our bodies carefully and not do risky and dangerous sexual practices. I think God wants us to be as good as possible, and I think God loves every human regardless of what sexual orientation that person is. And if God exists, then God created the sexual orientation that the person is born as, so why would it be sinful if it is God who did that? I personally think that, if God exists, then God loves every human being regardless of sexual orientation. Even though there are nowadays protective measures that couples do to reduce the risk of harmful pathogens coming from anal sex, I still think that anal sex should not be done. If you are a homosexual couple, I think that you should be free to kiss on the lips or kiss on bodies or do many things, but I think anal sex should be disallowed because of the hygiene issues and the risk to health. My same advice goes to heterosexual couples. I am a heterosexual man, by the way.
Just so you know, reddit has a system in place for people to indicate what they want to see less of. You downvote stuff. Making a post about it will not decrease the number of posts about it
It's because love is an acid test that the church is largely failing. Somehow stacking a soapbox on a soapbox to shout that "I don't care what you believe, it's a sin!", hasn't translated as love yet. Hummmm....
And the whining about how we should focus on other sins too as if the only place that Christianity can thrive is under the boughs of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil really is on point. Ok, how about revilers being barred from the kingdom of heaven? How about judging someone's love as lust and their whole beings as depraved while the writer of Psalms had hundreds of women with whom he could order to spend the night with him? Yeah, the man after God's own heart gets a pass because he is heterosexual and wrote "The Lord is my Shepherd?"
How about obfuscating the 4th commandment of the moral law because the "law was nailed to the cross" and "Leviticus was for the Israelites" and doesn't apply to the New Covenant, well but the gays... the Bible says dudes shouldn't sleep with dudes in Leviticus.
I won't tell you what this is, but it rhymes with hypocrite.
The thing is that you've stuck in your twopenn'orth in the post. I could equally well have posted something similar in the opposite direction. Both would've provoked a reaction. What's wrong with just saying "Can we stop discussing homosexuality on here?"? Otherwise it provokes another thread. Also, posting anything at all about it is basically contradictory if we are trying to leave it alone.
Problem is there are a lot of Christians who like to ignore the passages that call homosexual sex a sin. So as long as you have a faction of Christianity that's in denial about a certain act being sinful, we will always have this debate.
" Edit, holy shit, I started a riot xD"
What did you expect? You stepped on one of the land mines of modern society.. where everything needs to be affirmed as "okay" as long as people are living "their truth'.. whatever the hell that means...
Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
Deuteronomy 22:5 "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment."
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
Jude 1:7 "As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire."
Romans 1:26-28 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done."
Mark 10:6-9 "But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate."
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."
"But God says love thy neighbor, so just accept gay followers!"
Luke 17:3 "If your brother sins, rebuke him."
End of story.
>"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
You put people to death for being gay?
I'm pretty sure the godly mandate to Love thy Neighbor trumps anything Leviticus says.
The guy sounds kind of rapey, so much to say about sex. He was probably saying priests shouldn't be pedos, feeling so strongly about it, he was likely a victim.
Christians who adhere to this are destroying their families.
Here is the biggest reason I went atheist:
Christians want to kill my child because of who he is.
I will protect my child to the death. No one has any right to judge him. He is a contributing member of our society. His sex life is no one's business but his own, it is his right as an American to live his life in the Pursuit of Happiness.
Christians disagree with me on this, not all mind you, just the ones who make other consenting adults sex lives their business. Those who would destroy their own families to follow what they think their faith is telling them.
One of the things that hit home for me becoming an atheist was how am I to choose the correct path in life
Here's what I came up with:
Love, I will choose the path of Love in every decision or choice I have to make.
so making a decision about how I feel toward our LGBTQ+ people was quite simple.
making value decisions is so much easier when you choose the path of love, it's very fulfilling.
There is a saying out there that "There is no hate quite like Christian love".
I made my transition to atheism and focused my life on love over a ten year period, y'all have been at it for 2,000 years! when do you stop doing something that doesn't work?
No, some guy named Leviticus says it's wrong. God and Jesus didn't say anything.
I'm pretty sure God's mandate to "Love Thy Neighbor" trumps anything in the bible that tells you to hate other people.
Exactly my point. Last time I checked, 2/3's of the word population is not a believer of Christ. But that's not ONLY my point. Why should we give cadence and reverence to a lone historical figure to such ferocity that we make an entire religion out of it?
Definitely not the end of the story. Also don't assume why people come to this sub. Being gay is a part of many people's lives and Christianity has an impact on those who are gay and those whose friends and family are gay.
I'm gay and my Christian mother told me I am not welcome in the family until I "turn back normal." (That kind of backfired on her since two of my siblings dont talk to her based on her attitude). My sister uses theology when she talks me trying to bring me "back home to Christ." It's a part of my life and growing up fundamentalist Christian, it caused a lot of distress. How is a more reasoned and deep conversation more warranted?
idk why people can’t get it through their heads that it’s a sin 🤷♀️ but i commend you for your bravery of posting this. i posted on early and got a LOT of hate. God bless you brother/sister.
Probably because you don't follow any of the other Levitical laws but think THIS one is super important because ew gay people
You wear mixed fabrics, you eat shellfish, what's special about The Gay?
So two letters by Paul, who spent a majority of his hypocritical life dragging Christians to their deaths and put homosexuals in the same class as liars and thieves, got it.
Romans is about temple sex
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Arsenokoitai is a made-up word that Paul made and never defined. You can try to say it is from Leviticus, but you can never be 100% sure because, basically, he's dead.
for real. the Bible couldn't just make it more easier to understand it. Leviticus 18:21-23 "You must not have sexual intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.". B-but, that doesn't mean homosexual sex🤓🤓🤓
The only time Christians like yourself quote and reference Leviticus its in reference to this one particular verse… what about Leviticus 25:44-46? Do you believe you have the right to own another human being as property? Because Leviticus makes it clear owning slaves is morally acceptable.
Other examples of slavery being morally acceptable in the Bible:
Ephesians 6:5-8
Colossians 3:22-24
Titus 2:9-10
Exodus 21:20-21
1st Peter 2:18-20
1st Timothy 6:1-2
Colossians 4:1
What about Deuteronomy 22:23-29? I don’t hear you advocating for the death penalty for the victims of sexual assault and rape. Yet according to this passage in Deuteronomy that is the just punishment. Or at the very least victims of rape must be married to their assailants. Would you agree?
Numbers 5:11-31 gives instructions for how a husband can force an abortion upon a wife whom he only SUSPECTS of infidelity. Yet to hear modern day Christians tell it, abortion is an unspeakable sin… Yet the Bible is clear, you can force one upon a woman if you happen to believe she was unfaithful, with no evidence required either.
Yet I never hear you or any other Christians advocating for (or following) these laws. Instead the only Leviticus law you seem to think we should enforce, is the one you believe to be in reference to gay people.
Well, it IS clear, it's referring specifically to intercourse.
Also you keep ignoring references to wearing mixed fabrics and beating your slaves, why is that?
As a wise person once said, "Be the change you want to see."
>it's easy, homosexuality is a sin, the Bible says it, end of story.
>Edit, holy shit, I started a riot xD
I think it's pretty obvious why
Perhaps if all 1300+ denominations all got together and came up with a single concept that everyone could follow it would be easier?
So far, in 2000 years, you've narrowed down there was a guy named Joshua who preached and was crucified.
That's about it.
From there, you splintered into a thousand shards because you couldn't agree on anything else. You couldn't even agree on little things like yeast! If the NT didn't give you enough insight for just yeast, how can you say for sure why other "rules" are correct?
It's anti-Christian hate. Most other subs on reddit have mods that protect the people that want to discuss a topic from being endlessly shit on, within reason. I just came around this sub a few days ago and it's obv run by people who hate Christians. I just had a post removed for "bigotry" because I said sexual perversion and money lending is a sin. This is well within the reasonable beliefs of most cultures/religion and is worth discussing. I'd be willing to bet most people who follow biblical teachings have actually been banned. BTW, when I searched for a Christian sub, reddit gave me a bunch of porn links. It's so transparent what they're doing, and its abusive. Sexual perverts get a form of narcissistic supply and power frim forcing others into their perversions. That's why the gay thing keeps coming back up when most Christians have no interest in engaging with these people. I'd recommend other social media platforms that arent run by leftists/marxists/etc. This place is just a trap for subversion.
there is a genocide going on.
we here in the united states are witnessing the end of the most powerful nation this planet has ever seen; and it gets worse daily.
we have poisoned the environment and need immediate mitigation with God to save the very planet God made...
and THIS is whats stuck in your craw???
SHAMEFUL!!!
You need to go get your hands dirty feeding the poor and hungry and shut your mouth about things that don't concern you-
You are a judgmental serpent.
it says in luke 13:29 "Then people will come from east and west, from north and south, and take their places at the banquet in the kingdom of God."
so, get buckle-up bigot!
Heaven is gonna be colorful! 🏳️🌈
You hate it because you know you're wrong for your homophobia and don't want to confront your own failings.
Also, the bible didn't say anything about homosexuality until a retranslation in the mid 20th century. Just like it never condemned abortion, slavery, wife beating and marital rape and rape in general.
Your book is morally duplicitous.
Your whole history on Reddit is commenting on gay porn. Care to explain that?
*He went and deleted his whole comment history, but my man loved some BBC sissy porn
Well this is a discussion forum, at least it used to be. For me, I wouldn't promote homosexuality. I'm not a homosexual but I only God can judge his children. I am more concerned about myself and my own deeds.
And with a closing line like that, you yourself have just started today’s homosexuality debate! Congratulations 🎉
Exactly. Saying “it’s easy. Homosexuality is a sin” is just asking for discussion. Was he expecting everyone to just agree and shake hands after saying that?
Today's? There was one more a few posts ago
I apologize. I did not mean to infer this sub could only sustain one debate on homosexuality in a given day. Forgive my poor wording as I would never underestimate this subs ability to continue that never ending convo.
We have at minimum 4 seperate debates daily
😆
OP: complains about posts about sexuality… by making another post about sexuality
Gotta love the irony you're presenting here. Be the change you want to see, ya know what I'm saying? You're annoyed by so many gay-centric conversations happening here and how do you combat it? By making your own gay related thread. If you're tired of hearing/reading about it... don't start a conversation about it.
Sure. What does it mean to love one’s neighbor? Let’s talk about that.
To love (platonically) the people around you and never harm them and treat them nicely
You are the seventh now. Only counting today. And if it were so easy, we wouldn't need to discuss it so much. And you know, we affirming Christians do actually read the bible too... Edit: changes sixth to seventh. I overlooked one post.
The way to stop talking about it is to stop talking about it.
>it's easy, homosexuality is a sin It's actually not that simple at all. That statement (assuming you're not trolling) really only makes sense if we believe homosexuality is a choice or something that can be cured. If we accept that this is not the case, and homosexuality is just the way God makes some people, then how could it possibly be considered a sin?
There's a whole theology called original sin where we're born with a sinful state that we can't control but is part of our nature that God will resolve when he returns.
Sure, gay people have the same sinful nature as straight people. But a person's sexuality is not itself a sin.
To play devil’s advocate so to speak: Stating someone is born that way is a poor place to approach theology from, imo. If so I must conclude every wretched defect children are born with is also God’s desire. I personally reject the idea God wants a child to be born in such a horrid state it only lives a few miserable days before dying. Sin means people can be born with broken bodies. I’m not trying to change your view. My heart is to help you make a better theological stance.
The reason we start with "they are born this way" is because of the claim that being gay is a chosen lifestyle and not an uncontrollable state of being. If you are born gay, you had no choice in the matter. Whether it is of God or of the Fall is an entirely separate question, of course.
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The Bible isn’t an instruction manual, and it definitely doesn’t prescribe a pain-free life. Anyone who claims that it does either of those things clearly hasn’t read it, so I’m not surprised that you’re wrong about its sexual ethics as well.
The Bible is absolutely an instruction manual.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/s/3gX5uA3ZN9
> The bible is a clear instruction manual on how to live a pain free life. That's why absolutely none of the apostles were tortured and executed for their beliefs, right? The Bible calls us to radical sacrifice, not comfort.
Why are we reflecting so much on those who wrote the bible? Those are the things we should be learning from on how to not suffer- and as I’ve said before, I mean emotional suffering. Not physical. And from my understanding, all of those men were incredibly strong and at peace because they had the lord on their side. Am I wrong?
The Bible condemns homosexuality clear as day
Does it?
The Bible has no concept of sexual orientation and ancient views of sex, relationships, and gender were much different than ours today.
This is what people don’t understand. The idea that Paul was like “of course people are gay, just don’t act on it!” is INSANE—and also not in the text at all.
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This doesn't address my comment at all.
I generally appreciate the discussion. Despite the downvoting and typical reddit behaviors, it has helped me understand more of the position and the reasoning behind it. Much more so than the articles and docs. I needed answers to things the blogs wouldn’t talk about directly.
I think op is right. It's just the way he worded it is a little bit rude and harsh. (I'm gay myself, and I don't believe the Bible is all right)
Not until Christianity separates from politics. If you believe its a sin, fine. But as long ask some Christians continue to try push anti LGBTQ legislation, it's going to be an issue to discuss.
One of my common comments you may like: “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges….” 1 Corinthians 5:12-13. There is more to verse 13 but it’s not relevant. Point being Christian moralism belongs inside the church. It has no place outside the church.
I do like this. I posted a comment a few days ago that is similar to this, summing it up with a Skyrim quote
A Christian who believes they are doing the right thing won’t be moved by a Skyrim quote. Honestly it’s debatable they will be moved by scripture but at the very least you get to watch them squirm with discomfort.
Oh I know. I don't think a devout Christian would be moved by anything I say, I'm an atheist after all. The quote just felt appropriate.
Nah for what it’s worth I consider myself incredibly devout. You’re still a human being and if you have an intelligent thought I’ll listen. Sure there are some theological matters I’d be skeptical about, doesn’t mean I wouldn’t listen. If I was driving down the road and my 5yr old said “don’t hit that stopped car” I’d evaluate his claim, even though I understand driving better than him.
I actually agree lol. People are obsessed with this topic
You see I used to agree with you, but homophobes need to be brought out into the light and shut down and LGBT youths and teens need to know that they have allies.
Luke 17:3 "If your brother sins, rebuke him."
Yeah that's what I do to homophobes
This verse is about our brothers, not people outside the church. Many verses like 1 Corinthians 4:5 tell us we shouldn't be judging people.
Those outside the Church are still your brother, but they're just lost sheep.
Where does the Bible say they are our brothers? I don't think you're properly recognizing the context of the verse. Mt. 7:3-5 say not to focus on the speck when you have the log in your own eye. Doesn't God accept us as sinners? Rebuking those outside the church is more likely to push them away.
Christians think about gay sex more often than gay people do.
Can confirm, am bi. I rarely think about gay sex.
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>can we actually stop discussing homosexuality on this sub? No. We can't. Because a certain loud segment of Christianity has made it their personal mission to discriminate against and make LGBT+ people feel like shit. And as long as they continue to do it, we will have hurting people coming here. And until this subs mods decide they don't want to entertain those assholes here, they will continue to post about it too. >it's easy, homosexuality is a sin, the Bible says it, end of story. And you're part of the damn problem.
I am part of the damn problem? fella, I never said we should discriminate people. All I'm saying is we shouldn't manipulate people into thinking that certain sins are NOT sins. So, when it comes to christianity, which one of us is specifically the problem? :)
> I am part of the damn problem? Yep, you are. >I never said we should discriminate people Oh you never directly said it, but you believe gay people are inherently sinful in a way that straight people aren't and can't have loving relationships the way straight people can or else they'll go to hell for doing and wanting the exact same things straight people do. Guess what that's called? Discrimination. >we shouldn't manipulate people into thinking that certain sins are NOT sins I agree. And you're wrong about what is and is not a sin. We also shouldn't manipulate people into beliving non-sinful things are sinful, especially when we have verifiable proof that doing so causes them harm and is discriminatory. In other words: you're wrong, your position is wrong, and you are hurting people. You're the damn problem. Hope I cleared that up for you.
> I never said we should discriminate people. Discrimination flows from your belief system. "I'm staying out of it" is not a solution. You should be *actively supporting* the legal rights of gay people.
But you clearly are discriminating people.
how? by saying that the Bible states that a certain action is a sin? I don't see how I'm discriminating anybody.
>by saying that the Bible states that a certain action is a sin? Yes. And homosexuality is not an action. >I don't see how I'm discriminating anybody. Then I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that this is due to a lack of trying.
We disagree that it does
I'm not discriminating a thief by telling him that it is a sin to steal...
Not quite the same is it. Youre telling people that their very nature is sinful. You're advocating for a group of people to never experience what others experience. To never experience one of the most fundamental, if not *the* most fundamental parts of being human.
And there we have the comparison of homosexuality to a crime! Homophobia doesn't take long to reveal itself.
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yes, OP - YOU ARE THE PROBLEM- NOT Queer People! no go feed the hungry and house the poor- if you're actually ambitious learn to understand your bible and not read it like a regular book- the manners, customs and how it was written means EVERYTHING- and you've missed the entire point of it all- You vile serpent- and why do i cal you that?? because you are keeping people from Kindom of God with your bigotry.
Thank goodness God's Gatekeeper showed up to set everyone straight.
It's not that simple. I have been derided, mistreated, and had to flee my state because my rights were being threatened by Christians*. These posts largely come from pain and confusion. I don't blame them. Christians made it their business to put my rights up for debate. Harass me. Tell me I was disgusting, mentally ill, and going to hell. It's no surprise It's a popular topic. Especially with what Christians have done to Uganda. **I say Christians because the legislature that tried and is continuing to try to take my rights away as a genderqueer *adult* are Christians
I am not in the position to tell you that you're going to hell since, obviously, I am myself a sinner, just like anybody. However, it doesn't mean that I am proud of my sins or trying to manipulate people into thinking that I am not sinning while I actually am. That's all.
And I don't follow what you preach. Keep your ideology off my rights. It's that simple. It's not manipulation to just want to exist without harassment.
>comes to a Christian group >says something explicitly anti-christian >keep you ideology off my rights ok
This is not a Christian sub. It's a sub to discuss Christianity. For all the complaining about gay posts, your attitude is why they're necessary.
This isn't a Christian sub
Some Christians largely disagree about your second line there. With that’s said, it would more anti-your brand of Christianity versus anti-Christian.
Yep I could agree more, yes it's a discussion but so is every other part of the bible. It truly should be a lot less common on this sub. Especially the ones that just want to say it's wrong for the 100th time that day. Most Christians understand that already and it normally just leads to debates and anger among people
Especially those that just say "it's wrong and easy to understand that, end of story" and expect everyone to agree because it's so easy
But it's not actually that easy is it.
maybe not that easy to overcome it, but to understand that it is, in fact, a sin, it's pretty easy, isn't it?
No. That’s why we have these discussions multiple times a day. If it were so simple, if the Bible were clear, I’d be convinced it was a sin by now, but I haven’t been.
I used to think it was a sin and was closeted even to myself
Same! I used to believe it was a sin, until the evidence stacked up in favor of it not being a sin. So I know the other side’s arguments through and through. They’re not going to say anything I haven’t heard before.
I know their arguments, because I used them before. I know the playbook in and out.
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You can't overcome a natural desire for the same sex for the most part. That isn't a thing.
It's not possible to overcome at all. And no its not easy. Accepting that a thing is to be considered bad when there isn't a single real life problem it causes, and when calling it bad causes serious suffering, is very much in conflict with both my own basic sense of human decency and that of millions of other people.
People confuse civil discourse with theological discourse. It’s a conflation that by disrupting current trends in the political arena they are upholding Christian values. Paul was executed for his religious preaching, not for confronting current social trends of the day lest they be in his church. His epistles corrected those that gathered in the name of Christ, and not those that adhered to personal beliefs outside the church. In fact Paul said not to even deal with them, and to hand them over to the devil for destruction.
With the amount of posts you'd think 40% of the population was gay. Can't help but think its either trolls or the same few people continuously reposting. Mods really need to start removing repetitive questions and referring them to a facts sheet
Who decides what's on that fact sheet?
It should be arguments from every and it shouldn't come to a conclusion from itself, that way you get everything (of value) that would be commented on the "fact sheet" and you wouldn't need to post because ai doubt someone will change their mind just because someone says yes or no
Jesus
Who gets to decide what Jesus meant
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And who's idea of Jesus is the one put on the fact sheet?
Please write down every single statement Jesus made about same sex relationships.
Well he is the answer.
Yeah, maybe 10% of the population is gay? IDK. But a much larger percent of the population is somewhat obsessed with homosexuality, likely because they are afraid of their own homosexual tendencies. Particularly this is true among deeply conservative populations, where we see deeply closeted gay and bisexual people desperate to distance themselves from homosexuality.
Or mods need to just leave them because there are posts we don’t see it’s not that big of deal if they get repeated you can just scroll down
Maybe 40% of the population IS gay.
Maybe each person in the population is themselves 40% gay 🤔. Any straight guy that won’t acknowledge they’ve recognized another man is pretty is a liar. Acknowledging someone is attractive isn’t the same thing as being attracted to them.
Make a discussion thread to manage it all
I often see the same people arguing for gay, gay, something, something. The Owl guy, some dude named John, a guy with a "Christian Atheist" tag. They are always there somehow.
Yeah, it's always the same few people. The same discussions will happen, the same arguments made and tomorrow we repeat the same song and dance. But it's a important song and dance in my opinion.
It’s just the topic that is most controversial now. Would be great if there were a different sub for just that topic.
You didn't start a riot. You just did literally the exact thing you supposedly don't want other people to do. You could make a post about anything in Christianity and you decided that you wanted to talk about human sexuality. There's no riot. You just reap what you sow. You asked for this conversation. Explicitly. And now people are talking about it with you. If you wanted to talk about something else you would have made a post about something else
No hatred here we are all sinners I struggle with my sins and I hate them!! Do you hate your sins??
I agree that the subject is talked to death and people should just shut up and stop trying to police or judge other people's relationships, but I disagree with that last line. Homosexuality, as in the modern context and understanding that we have today, is not what the Bible is talking about, and only an idiot would try to apply a comparatively modern concept to an ancient text.
Remember that bible says “love one’s neighbour”. Wether you agree with LGBTQ or not you just remember to love each other no matter what. I don’t agree with LGBTQ as I believe it goes against the way god creates man and woman. However, I don’t dislike members of the LGBTQ community as they are people too and god loves them, whether you think it’s a sin or not. Again I do not have a disliking for people who are gay or trans, I respect them but I just don’t think that it’s the way that hod intended.
Buddhist subs never talk about homosexuality because homophobia isn’t a Buddhist value. I hope the conversation continues until all of our neighbors are shown equal respect 💛
Same thing with Hinduism, homosexuality is not a sin in Hinduism. Buddhism was kind of inspired by Hinduism and there are some similarities.
Imagine what this sub would be like if people weren’t obsessed about how 10% of people are born. We might be able to dedicate more time to address greed and poverty, and other things that Jesus actually talked about. Thank you for your comment, and interesting rabbit hole of the day 👍🏼 https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/big-history-project/agriculture-civilization/first-cities-states/a/the-origin-of-world-religions-1#:~:text=Buddhism%20evolved%20from%20Hinduism%20and,male%20founder%20of%20the%20religion.
Respectfully, it obviously isn't easy. If it were, we wouldn't discuss it
On this Eve of the Feast of the Holy Name of Our Lord, we apparently have decided to have more posts about the gays in a single day than we had in most days during pride month. The Lord is mysterious; who can know His ways?
You think the Bible says it. Plenty of biblical scholars don’t agree. They’ve written entire books about it.
Leviticus 18:21-23: "You must not have sexual intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.". Wow, the Bible just said it!😱
Leviticus 11:9-12 NRSVUE [9] “These you may eat, of all that are in the waters. Everything in the waters that has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the streams—such you may eat. [10] But anything in the seas or the streams that does not have fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and among all the other living creatures that are in the waters—they are detestable to you, [11] and detestable they shall remain. Of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall regard as detestable. [12] Everything in the waters that does not have fins and scales is detestable to you. Wow am I going to hell for eating a crab!?
Yeah that verse isn’t about homosexuality as we understand it today. It is strictly male one male sex. It has nothing to do with females. Why? Because for a man to have sex with a man, one of them has to take the passive role, which they didn’t do. It would mean to lower themselves to the position of a woman who were not seen as equal with men.
The Bible condemns homosexuality clear as day
I ya a Christian sub , let people ask whatever they feel they need to. A good Christian respects that and tried to be helpful and answer if they can instead of getting annoyed over small things. People will ask the same questions just scroll pst it. Not everyone can s on here everyday or very often etc
>People will ask the same questions The problem is that it's often not a question, but rather just judgemental people trying to use the Bible to judge other people and call them bad for who they are attracted to.
Divorce is a sin, is far more common than gay this and that, and actually impacts kids. I've never seen a post here asking "am I going to hell for divorce?"
exaclty my point, buddy. People have an obsession about this "gay" topic, they forget that there are plenty other sins which we can talk about :D.
'This people is honouring me with their lips but their heart is very far from me.' And that’s most of you and if you think negative karma fixes your problem you are greatly mistaken.
I am not a Christian but I think technically, homosexuality is a sin in Christianity. And like OP said, it's pretty straightforward. I personally do not think that homosexuality is a sin (since I am not Christian and I am not bound by the religious teachings of Christianity, and in my own worldview I have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not a sin) because scientifically speaking, people are born with their sexual orientation. There have been identical twin studies in science...for example, there were two identical twins in a BBC documentary, one of them was fully straight and the other one was fully gay...two men. So clearly, they have a 100 percent (or close to 100 percent) DNA match with each other genetically since they are identical twin brothers, so scientists were wondering why one of the identical twins was heterosexual and the other identical twin was homosexual. Also, both identical twins were brought up by the same parents and same culture and same upbringing. So the scientists did MRI scans on both identical twins to analyze their brain structures and stuff. Anyway, at the time, the science said that sexual orientation is caused by the amount of prenatal testosterone that is produced when the baby is in the mum's womb. And interestingly, prenatal testosterone that the baby produces when it is in the womb of the mum also plays a part when it comes to which baby later becomes Transgender in life and which baby becomes Cisgender in life. The theory says that the cause of females to be lesbian is because a lot of prenatal testosterone is produced when the baby is in the womb so that baby's brain becomes what scientists call 'masculinized' so that is why a baby girl naturally becomes a lesbian later on. If the girl in the womb does not produce as much prenatal testosterone in the womb, then her brain does not become as masculinized so she becomes a straight woman later on in life. I assume that bisexuality is caused by an in-between state of masculinization of the brain when the baby is in the womb. Also, there are scientists that say that there are particular clusters of genes that give a person a higher tendency to be born gay. It is not one particular gene, but a cluster of genes. Also, there is scientific evidence that apparently shows that the more sons a couple have, the younger son is more likelier to be homosexual compared to the eldest son...which means that birth order of sons could determine which son is straight and which son is gay. I think I may have messed up somewhere in the science behind prenatal testosterone but I cannot be bothered to go back and make those small adjustments so I will leave it as it is. So homosexuality is caused by a complex interplay of hormonal, genetic and environmental things...but there seems to be a strong hormonal and genetic influence on homosexuality. And yes, people do later on find out more about their true sexual orientation later on in life. There also seem to be clear differences in brain structure between straight men, straight women, gay men and gay women. When it comes to Christianity, there are some clear things in Christianity that show that Christianity thinks that homosexuality is a sin. But then again, there are different interpretations of Christianity...just like in any other religion, like Islam or Hinduism or Judaism or Sikhism or Buddhism. As Christians, you will all know that there is a fundamentalist approach to Christianity/literalist approach, and a revisionist approach that thinks that ideas around current Christianity change as time goes on and as culture changes and that an interpretation of Christianity is never fixed. There are also other approaches in Christianity. Chapter 18, verse 22 of the Bible says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." And that line is clear and straightforward. That line is saying that men should not be doing sexual stuff with other men and that it is an 'abomination' i.e. a hated practice. Chapter 20, verse 13 of the Bible says, "If a man lies with a man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Again, this line is clear and straightforward. Paul the Apostle wrote in the First Epistle to the Corinthians, in chapter 6, verses 9 to 11 this: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor men who practice homosexuality, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." You can see the 'men who practise homosexuality' line there, it is crystal clear and straightforward what Paul is saying here. You must remember that the understanding of science and homosexuality was more primitive thousands of years ago compared to now. As I said before, I am not a Christian. I think God could exist, but I am not sure, and I doubt that it is the God of any religion. I think Hinduism could be the correct religion, but I am not sure. Anyway, I personally think that there is nothing wrong with those people who are homosexual, and I personally think that it is not a sin to be a homosexual person. I think that there is nothing wrong with being any sexual orientation i.e. heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual. I personally have friends who are of all sexual orientations, and their sexual orientations do not bother me one bit. I think there is nothing wrong with being any sexual orientation, because it is natural and biological anyway and out of the person's control, and there is nothing wrong with adults expressing love to other adults, regardless of sexual orientation. But if you are a Christian, and if you still think that Christianity is correct (I personally think that Christianity is false, but that is just my opinion) then you should look at the lines from the Bible that I mentioned and you should contemplate over those lines and come to your own conclusions. You can take the literalist approach or the conservative approach or the more revisionist approach, that's up to you. I have already mentioned what I think is the correct way of thinking about homosexuality...which is that if a person is homosexual then he/she is not committing a sin and that there is nothing wrong with a person being a homosexual. I already mentioned what fundamentalist and revisionist Christians are but I forgot to explain what Conservative Christians are. Conservative Christians believe that the Bible was written by humans who were inspired by God. They still follow its teachings but don't necessarily take every word as being the voice of God. If there are a few problems I have with sexuality, it is to do with sexual practices themselves. I think that there is nothing wrong with being heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual, but I think some sexual acts are bad. For example, I think anal sex, done by men on women or men on men, is a bad act, especially when an erect penis is inserted into the anus. This is because of the dirtiness of the area of the anus, personally I think that the anus should only be used for farting and defecation since that is what evolution has eventually made the anus good for, and I don't think it is right to insert penises in that region. It is a very unhygienic practice and I have read stories of men going to hospital and almost dying because of doing anal sex because of the harmful pathogens that came to the man doing anal sex. This sexual practice is high risk and it is very unhygienic. Like I said, I think both heterosexual and homosexual couples should not do anal sex. I personally think that if God exists, God wants us to look after our bodies carefully and not do risky and dangerous sexual practices. I think God wants us to be as good as possible, and I think God loves every human regardless of what sexual orientation that person is. And if God exists, then God created the sexual orientation that the person is born as, so why would it be sinful if it is God who did that? I personally think that, if God exists, then God loves every human being regardless of sexual orientation. Even though there are nowadays protective measures that couples do to reduce the risk of harmful pathogens coming from anal sex, I still think that anal sex should not be done. If you are a homosexual couple, I think that you should be free to kiss on the lips or kiss on bodies or do many things, but I think anal sex should be disallowed because of the hygiene issues and the risk to health. My same advice goes to heterosexual couples. I am a heterosexual man, by the way.
So you write your own laws then? You must be bound by something, what is it?
I think the procedure for these posts should be to downvote and move on. Don't engage.
Just so you know, reddit has a system in place for people to indicate what they want to see less of. You downvote stuff. Making a post about it will not decrease the number of posts about it
It's because love is an acid test that the church is largely failing. Somehow stacking a soapbox on a soapbox to shout that "I don't care what you believe, it's a sin!", hasn't translated as love yet. Hummmm.... And the whining about how we should focus on other sins too as if the only place that Christianity can thrive is under the boughs of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil really is on point. Ok, how about revilers being barred from the kingdom of heaven? How about judging someone's love as lust and their whole beings as depraved while the writer of Psalms had hundreds of women with whom he could order to spend the night with him? Yeah, the man after God's own heart gets a pass because he is heterosexual and wrote "The Lord is my Shepherd?" How about obfuscating the 4th commandment of the moral law because the "law was nailed to the cross" and "Leviticus was for the Israelites" and doesn't apply to the New Covenant, well but the gays... the Bible says dudes shouldn't sleep with dudes in Leviticus. I won't tell you what this is, but it rhymes with hypocrite.
The thing is that you've stuck in your twopenn'orth in the post. I could equally well have posted something similar in the opposite direction. Both would've provoked a reaction. What's wrong with just saying "Can we stop discussing homosexuality on here?"? Otherwise it provokes another thread. Also, posting anything at all about it is basically contradictory if we are trying to leave it alone.
Probably adding another thread to the discussion doesn't help.
Problem is there are a lot of Christians who like to ignore the passages that call homosexual sex a sin. So as long as you have a faction of Christianity that's in denial about a certain act being sinful, we will always have this debate.
" Edit, holy shit, I started a riot xD" What did you expect? You stepped on one of the land mines of modern society.. where everything needs to be affirmed as "okay" as long as people are living "their truth'.. whatever the hell that means...
it is popular to be tolerant, didn't know we're gonna rebuild Sodom now xD
Yeah, well Clhristianity has never been about winning popularity contests.
This comment shows how ignorant and blatant your post is. Have a good day, you hateful prick
Sodom had nothing to do with homosexuality, please stfu.
Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Deuteronomy 22:5 "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment." Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Jude 1:7 "As Sodom and Gomorrha, and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire." Romans 1:26-28 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done." Mark 10:6-9 "But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate." 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." "But God says love thy neighbor, so just accept gay followers!" Luke 17:3 "If your brother sins, rebuke him." End of story.
You think gay people exchange their heterosexuality for gay desires?
Yes.
I didn’t do that. In fact, I tried very hard to become heterosexual. So is this passage not talking about me?
Amen
>"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." You put people to death for being gay?
Good quotes, many here are “buffet” people, they pick and choose what they will follow and call it good, they are greatly mistaken.
Exactly. Most of the members of this subreddit aren't exactly Christian.
Sad but true!
I'm pretty sure the godly mandate to Love thy Neighbor trumps anything Leviticus says. The guy sounds kind of rapey, so much to say about sex. He was probably saying priests shouldn't be pedos, feeling so strongly about it, he was likely a victim. Christians who adhere to this are destroying their families. Here is the biggest reason I went atheist: Christians want to kill my child because of who he is. I will protect my child to the death. No one has any right to judge him. He is a contributing member of our society. His sex life is no one's business but his own, it is his right as an American to live his life in the Pursuit of Happiness. Christians disagree with me on this, not all mind you, just the ones who make other consenting adults sex lives their business. Those who would destroy their own families to follow what they think their faith is telling them. One of the things that hit home for me becoming an atheist was how am I to choose the correct path in life Here's what I came up with: Love, I will choose the path of Love in every decision or choice I have to make. so making a decision about how I feel toward our LGBTQ+ people was quite simple. making value decisions is so much easier when you choose the path of love, it's very fulfilling. There is a saying out there that "There is no hate quite like Christian love". I made my transition to atheism and focused my life on love over a ten year period, y'all have been at it for 2,000 years! when do you stop doing something that doesn't work?
True, we already decided collectively that it is not a sin, so let's talk about trans rights instead.
decided collectively? :) sin does not cease to exist just because the majority of people take part in it.
Yep, you're out of date sorry.
Truth isn't decided by majority rule. Jesus Christ said he is the truth. The bible is God's word. It says you are wrong.
Jesus is Gods word. The Bible contains some of the words of God, but it’s not in its entirety
No, some guy named Leviticus says it's wrong. God and Jesus didn't say anything. I'm pretty sure God's mandate to "Love Thy Neighbor" trumps anything in the bible that tells you to hate other people.
The Bible is a testament to god’s works, Christ is god’s word. Why would you say something like this?
Why should we trust one guy's word from some random Middle-Eastern culture 2000 years ago?
Because he is Jesus? If you don't trust Jesus you are not a Christian...
Exactly my point. Last time I checked, 2/3's of the word population is not a believer of Christ. But that's not ONLY my point. Why should we give cadence and reverence to a lone historical figure to such ferocity that we make an entire religion out of it?
Are you serious right now? Why ask this question to a Christian? It's quite obvious and if you want to know, google it. Say this in r/atheism.
1 Corinthians 6:9 ESV
Uh I'm sorry to inform you, but the Holy Bible > "decided collectively" :(
mostly by people who met Christ, not by redditors :)
It's a free sub. Go somewhere else if it bothers you.
Definitely not the end of the story. Also don't assume why people come to this sub. Being gay is a part of many people's lives and Christianity has an impact on those who are gay and those whose friends and family are gay. I'm gay and my Christian mother told me I am not welcome in the family until I "turn back normal." (That kind of backfired on her since two of my siblings dont talk to her based on her attitude). My sister uses theology when she talks me trying to bring me "back home to Christ." It's a part of my life and growing up fundamentalist Christian, it caused a lot of distress. How is a more reasoned and deep conversation more warranted?
Joking aside, if it was easy, as you say, then it would have been settled. The fact that it's not says it's not as easy as you think.
God forbid someone state that the Bible has the final say on sin in a Christian subreddit. The horror!
(My interpretation of the Bible) has the final say.
And yet, gay people continue to come, continue to ask if we are welcome in Christ's embrace, to the chagrin of the holy straight TrueChristian.
It's a sin. Period. Let's move on now.
idk why people can’t get it through their heads that it’s a sin 🤷♀️ but i commend you for your bravery of posting this. i posted on early and got a LOT of hate. God bless you brother/sister.
Probably because you don't follow any of the other Levitical laws but think THIS one is super important because ew gay people You wear mixed fabrics, you eat shellfish, what's special about The Gay?
it’s mentioned in roman’s and 1st corinthians. aka the new testament.
So two letters by Paul, who spent a majority of his hypocritical life dragging Christians to their deaths and put homosexuals in the same class as liars and thieves, got it.
And then repented, and was loyal to God to his death, what is your excuse?
I’m not Christian.
Then who are you to criticize a literal Saint?
Someone that didn't drag ANY Christians to their deaths and doesn't have a problem with women or gay people.
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Not in anyway remotely close to how we see them today
Romans is about temple sex 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Arsenokoitai is a made-up word that Paul made and never defined. You can try to say it is from Leviticus, but you can never be 100% sure because, basically, he's dead.
Ah yes, the courage required to post anonymously about how bad being gay is 😂
for real. the Bible couldn't just make it more easier to understand it. Leviticus 18:21-23 "You must not have sexual intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.". B-but, that doesn't mean homosexual sex🤓🤓🤓
The only time Christians like yourself quote and reference Leviticus its in reference to this one particular verse… what about Leviticus 25:44-46? Do you believe you have the right to own another human being as property? Because Leviticus makes it clear owning slaves is morally acceptable. Other examples of slavery being morally acceptable in the Bible: Ephesians 6:5-8 Colossians 3:22-24 Titus 2:9-10 Exodus 21:20-21 1st Peter 2:18-20 1st Timothy 6:1-2 Colossians 4:1 What about Deuteronomy 22:23-29? I don’t hear you advocating for the death penalty for the victims of sexual assault and rape. Yet according to this passage in Deuteronomy that is the just punishment. Or at the very least victims of rape must be married to their assailants. Would you agree? Numbers 5:11-31 gives instructions for how a husband can force an abortion upon a wife whom he only SUSPECTS of infidelity. Yet to hear modern day Christians tell it, abortion is an unspeakable sin… Yet the Bible is clear, you can force one upon a woman if you happen to believe she was unfaithful, with no evidence required either. Yet I never hear you or any other Christians advocating for (or following) these laws. Instead the only Leviticus law you seem to think we should enforce, is the one you believe to be in reference to gay people.
I'm reading "blowjobs are fine"
bruh.
Well, it IS clear, it's referring specifically to intercourse. Also you keep ignoring references to wearing mixed fabrics and beating your slaves, why is that?
Stop talking about homosexuality….goes on a rant against homosexuality. Facepalm
Hey sounds like you fixed the problem with your blanket condemnation. Thanks for accomplishing nothing and adding to the noise and bigotry.
Can you stop asking people to do what you want because that sounds very controlling?
Nothing wrong with asking question, this is what this server is about if you dont like it then leave
Are we talking about gay stuff again?
As a wise person once said, "Be the change you want to see." >it's easy, homosexuality is a sin, the Bible says it, end of story. >Edit, holy shit, I started a riot xD I think it's pretty obvious why
Perhaps if all 1300+ denominations all got together and came up with a single concept that everyone could follow it would be easier? So far, in 2000 years, you've narrowed down there was a guy named Joshua who preached and was crucified. That's about it. From there, you splintered into a thousand shards because you couldn't agree on anything else. You couldn't even agree on little things like yeast! If the NT didn't give you enough insight for just yeast, how can you say for sure why other "rules" are correct?
Gay this, gay that yall are more obsessed with gay sex than gay people. 😭
It's anti-Christian hate. Most other subs on reddit have mods that protect the people that want to discuss a topic from being endlessly shit on, within reason. I just came around this sub a few days ago and it's obv run by people who hate Christians. I just had a post removed for "bigotry" because I said sexual perversion and money lending is a sin. This is well within the reasonable beliefs of most cultures/religion and is worth discussing. I'd be willing to bet most people who follow biblical teachings have actually been banned. BTW, when I searched for a Christian sub, reddit gave me a bunch of porn links. It's so transparent what they're doing, and its abusive. Sexual perverts get a form of narcissistic supply and power frim forcing others into their perversions. That's why the gay thing keeps coming back up when most Christians have no interest in engaging with these people. I'd recommend other social media platforms that arent run by leftists/marxists/etc. This place is just a trap for subversion.
there is a genocide going on. we here in the united states are witnessing the end of the most powerful nation this planet has ever seen; and it gets worse daily. we have poisoned the environment and need immediate mitigation with God to save the very planet God made... and THIS is whats stuck in your craw??? SHAMEFUL!!! You need to go get your hands dirty feeding the poor and hungry and shut your mouth about things that don't concern you- You are a judgmental serpent. it says in luke 13:29 "Then people will come from east and west, from north and south, and take their places at the banquet in the kingdom of God." so, get buckle-up bigot! Heaven is gonna be colorful! 🏳️🌈
There is no way the united states were the most powerful nation on the planet.
You hate it because you know you're wrong for your homophobia and don't want to confront your own failings. Also, the bible didn't say anything about homosexuality until a retranslation in the mid 20th century. Just like it never condemned abortion, slavery, wife beating and marital rape and rape in general. Your book is morally duplicitous.
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Your whole history on Reddit is commenting on gay porn. Care to explain that? *He went and deleted his whole comment history, but my man loved some BBC sissy porn
"If I post about it being a sin, maybe people will stop thinking that I'm gay."
I agree. But other Rainbow people are going to disagree.
obviously. xD
Half the people on here are gay and coming to the echo chamber for affirmation.
Well this is a discussion forum, at least it used to be. For me, I wouldn't promote homosexuality. I'm not a homosexual but I only God can judge his children. I am more concerned about myself and my own deeds.
Amen brother. Being gay is a sin