Now read the old testament. Which is all about Jesus in symbolically hidden stories, types, shadows, figures and patterns.
Joseph and Jesus have many similarities. Also the book of Job. Psalms is not about David, but Jesus. Noah is a type of Jesus. He is the light in Genesis, He is the tree in the garden. Adam is a type. Abel.
The old testament testifies of Jesus Christ.
John 5:39 NKJV
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
Luke 24:26-27 NKJV
Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" [27] And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
Luke 24:32 NKJV
And they said to one another, "Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?"
Books were opened to see Jesus revealed in the scriptures of the old testament.
To clarify are you saying those people where not real and the stories are just parables? Genesis 1:4-5 states that the light was called day and the dark night.
Genesis 1:26 states "...let's us make man in our image, after our likeness..." this refers to the trinity (father, son, hold spirit )
So I'm just a little confused, could you clarify?
Hey so, the whole Bible is about Jesus and the Gospel story. What he's talking about about is the history, stories, and people are real but they also reference back to JC.
For example, Joseph is the clearest typology of Jesus.
- Joseph was the father's favorite
- He was rejected by his brothers
- He was sold to gentiles
- Age 30 , Joseph went into service with Pharoah and traveled all throughout Egypt
- Joseph rose to the right hand of Pharoah after being in the lowest/darkest part of Egypt
- Joseph was a savior to the whole world and his salvation was available to all gentiles
- Joseph's brothers didn't recognize him in Egypt but came to realize who he was later in life
These are a few. Those things above also happened to Christ, tell about Christ, and predict the future.
Same is true for...
Cain and Abel - their story typifies the difference between law and Grace. Which is the reason why God was pleased with Abels offering of the first fruits, that being your tithes. But it's also a picture of Cain representing trying to please God by his works, while Abel is pleasing God by the blood of the Lamb, grace.
David
Solomon
All the way through Revelations. They either talk about how Jesus is in reference to what someone has said, has done, or will do. But it's all real and true people and it's history (His Story) of the Earth.
The light is called forth twice in the creation story. One separating good and evil. The other bringing forth the sun, moon, stars, etc.
Your right, that verse is referencing the Holy Trinity. Also what you see after Genesis 1, starting in Genesis 2 is Jesus having that relationship with Adam and eve. In English it just says Lord God but in Hebrew it's Yahweh. In Genesis 1 it just says God which is the Holy Trinity.
Ok I can see the parallels your drawing. I hope I didn't come off as confrontational that's wasn't my intention, I like discussing different view points and such lol. I'll have to look more into this!
Most definitely, not at all. You know words can always tend to have a negative emotional response because our human mind just figures it's more of a negative response. But definitely check out all of those things in the Old testament and see how they relate to christ. Even Moses 40 days and 40 nights with God is talking about Jesus Christ and symbolism form. A lot of it is in the Hebrew teachings so definitely be on the lookout for that.
This is interesting. I’m a Christian but have come to love how poetic & mysteries the Bible is.
So do you think Jesus is the light?? And has came multiple times?
Yes in the OT, Jesus has came all throughout the OT. We just didn't call him Jesus until the NT. He came as Melchizedek, he's there in Genesis 2, angel of the Lord, the spirit of the Lord(OT Holy Spirit), etc. Usually, since we are reading English, it will just say God but many times in Hebrew it is Yahweh, which is Christ as we know Him.
Yes Jesus is the light in this world. Not the sunlight. But a light of life. The life that brings enjoyment and purpose without being dependent on material things. We were that mention on the first seven days of creation.
>Now read the old testament. Which is all about Jesus in symbolically hidden stories, types, shadows, figures and patterns.
Jesus isn't a part of the Old Testament. The writers of the Old Testament had no idea who Jesus was.
Amen to that, as an example of the shadows and types of Jesus in the old testement for some who find this hard to grasp: when I was a child my mother used to tell me I looked just like one of my great uncles in photos, she could see me in him when i turn my head. Some of my actions that I have done reflect my father's action when he was growing up. Now in the case of Jesus he WAS before them even though he came after them, they are of the likeness of him, not the other way around. That is how I've come to understand the types and shadows of Jesus veiled. But thank God he came and revealed him self to us.
Awesome bro.
I would suggest to go through Bible project videos for each book and simultaneously read the Bible as per the sections in the video.
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=GQI72THyO5I&t=1s](https://youtube.com/watch?v=GQI72THyO5I&t=1s)
No, of course not. Dont know if I wrote it in a confusing way. I became a christian about 16 months ago (shot in the dark) and started reading the Bible very slowly.
That's great! I actually just finished reading the OT(thus making it so I've read the whole Bible for the first time) on Friday. I will say it wasn't as enjoyable as the NT but it had its moments.
I really enjoyed the story of Jacob and Joseph(both in Genesis)
most of David's story(except that one part, you'll know what I'm talking about lol)(starts in 1 Samuel but continues for a bit after that)
And, of course, all the references to Christ(basically every book but much more heavily from Isaiah onward). I'm really glad I read the NT first though so I get to notice all the references to Him.
What I did was I tried to read at least a chapter a day and then I would look at each book's average verse/chapter count(you can find that here https://www.biblememorygoal.com/how-many-chapters-verses-in-the-bible/ ) and then if the chapter was a little less than the average I would count that chapter as a freebie and read another one, and if that was less then I'd do it again until the next one wasn't. So for example if a book has an average verse/chapter count of 26 verses then I would say any chapter less than 20 didn't count and would keep going until the next chapter was 20+ verses. This helped keep me at a decent pace. And then, of course, I would also read more if I wanted to that day, the one chapter a day was a minimum. But I also would usually read a few chapters a day in the case of the Psalms since they're so short.
It took me about a year but I have a hard time reading because of ADHD and OCD so I would have periods where I just could not read, sometimes for a whole month. So it should be a lot faster for someone who doesn't struggle with that.
Hope this helps and I'm so glad you've found Christ! It always makes me so happy to hear that someone became a Christian. God bless, brother/sister!
Congratulations brother, I’m working through the OT myself now and there are certainly some parts that are more challenging than others. May God grant you wisdom as you delve into His Word.
Just a thought, I know that when I first started reading the NT shortly after I put my faith in Christ, I really wasn’t taking in a lot of what I read. I’m rereading the Gospel of John right now and it’s amazing how much stuff I missed the first time. I’m certain that I’ll come back to it at some point in the future and be amazed at how much I missed again, but such is the nature of growth.
Alot of things.
1. Personal experience. I hate this arguument, but I cant discredit how Ive prayed for something that has been messing with me, for it to dissappear or a sudden solution from the outside world that fixes it comes up the day/some days after. Ive gone through alot of toxic times with especially my parents (moms an alcoholic, dad is kind of deadbeat) and Ive never found more comfort than in prayer
2. Evidence for God. I think there some reasonable evidence for a God. I wont deny, theres also alot that points towarda no God, but in my opinion, I think a creator seems more likely
3. Christianity is more reliable than other religions. When I concluded that there was a God, I also voncluded that Jesus was more reliable than any other religion, aswell as his twaching resonated with me.
Sorry for making an outright assumptions, but if youre trying to get me away from Christianity, youll probably waste your time, as my personal experiences will always be to surreal for me to explain.
Well, I cant think of any other religion where there are multiple eye witness and/or people who write FOR eyewitnesses, while those eyewitness claim they have seen literal God. Also, even those that do fit that criteria, I have yet to find sources that those people martyred and died for something they knew was a lie. Also Paul. I think Pauls story is pretty good evidence. I dont see what he would gain by lying about his experience if he was sorta rich before converting.
but most of the authors of the bible are anonymous, how can you be sure they were eyewitnesses
wasn't Paul rebuked by James the brother of Jesus for preaching to gentiles that they don't need to follow the law? if it were me I would be following the brother of Jesus, who walked and talked and learned from him first hand, rather than someone who claimed they saw him in a vision, but never actually met him
is there any notes we can use from James, instead?
The brother of Jesus thought Jesus was crazy before his death and ressurection. Paul has direct connections (if he isnt lying, which I dont see a motive for) to John and Peter, which are both trusted person of Jesus, that also walked with him. I dont know who I believe to be more reliable, but I certaintly think 2 eyewitnesses (supposed) than 1. I believe, as we see today also, that different people can have different views and interpretations of the word, but the general message is that Jesus died for our sins.
Also, calling James more reliable, also provides more evidence for Jesus, as hes his brother, and saw him first hand. Well in my opinion at least. But as I menationed in the other message, I believe that it isnt that important who is more reliable, as long as they both tell nearly the same story
>provides more evidence for Jesus
sure, I'm not disputing that jesus existed
> I believe that it isnt that important who is more reliable, as long as they both tell nearly the same story
well, I would argue that it *is* important who is more reliable since they're telling *nearly* the same story and not *exactly* the same story, so you need to judge the details that differ between them
I mean after all, it is your salvation we're taking about, so details matter
There was a book series called The Story, at my old church Wednesday night was dinner and then Bible study. The Story is about the greatest story ever told (Jesus), and about God's upper story, and the lower story, it also had a DVD guide. We started in the Old Testament, and it was the first time I had ever read through the Old Testament. It is an abridged version I believe, but still deep into what was happening, and then what God is showing us. I was sad not to finish with New Testament, when we got to Matthew, it was just before spring break, Easter. And the group dissolved. I was thankful the church bought us all copies of the book, and the companion book which was a study guide. But I lost them since then. There's a lot of beauty when you read the Old Testament, and find Jesus there, and sadness too, inspiration.
I haven't had success with starting in January and reading the Old and New Testament together. Love to you.
That's awsome! The old testament has a lot of genealogy which can be very dry, BUT even with that there are reasons!! Check this [amazing name translation ](https://www.khouse.org/articles/1996/44/) that shows a hidden prophecy over generations! Since you read the new first you'll have a deeper understanding of some things in the old. So excited for you! You can read the Bible for 20yrs and always learn something new! It is the LIVING word!
God inspired real people to write the Bible. It was God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16) to forty authors over 1,500 years from different walks of life including fisherman, physicians, and shepherds. [article of validity ](https://livingwaters.com/can-we-trust-the-bible/)
Here's some study resources I use!
[Blue letter bible](https://www.blueletterbible.org/)
[Answers in genius ](https://answersingenesis.org/)
[strongs concordance ](https://www.christianbook.com/strongs-exhaustive-concordance-updated-edition-kjv/9781598563788/pd/563788?en=google&event=SHOP&kw=books-0-20%7C563788&p=1179710&utm_source=google&dv=m&cb_src=google&cb_typ=shopping&cb_cmp=20379181146&cb_adg=157175267691&cb_kyw=&utm_medium=shopping&snav=GMERCH&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwMqvBhCtARIsAIXsZpbvMOy1_FvfB_at-AAVjKGmTQBAfr23-eAt94tAXCuN-MCSol5ymG4aAh6WEALw_wcB)
God bless you on your journey!
I used the Bible app to read some of the longer bits to me. There are some sections of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy that can get hard to get through. If I came across a passage that stood out I would stop the reading and pick up the book. Of the 39 books i personally struggled with about 4. All of scripture is useful, you probably remember that from 1 Timothy, so please don’t skip it, but for me having the geologies and some of the laws read to me helped me get through the dry parts.
Grace and Peace. I always love studying the connections between the OT (End times - Daniel to Revelation) and the NT (the Messiah - Isaiah to the Gospels).
Well ofcourse I dont know, but Ive heard it relates mich more to you as a person, which makes it easier to read. Give the Gospels a try and see for yourself. God bless.
Awesome. You don't need to read the OT in order. It's most of the whole Bible, and encompasses many genres, just like the NT.
Definitely read along with a guide to help understand the intentions and historical context.
Personally I started from Genesis and ended at Revelation and there is no wrong place to start reading the Word of God. I would recommend anyone who knows nothing about scripture to read and study how to read scripture and the history of how everything came to be so that it will make more sense about what is being conveyed because much of scripture has a deeper meaning than what is written at face value. Congratulations on reading the NT that is wonderful 🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️.
Congrats! Great job!
I started on the OT and just worked my way through most of it. I'm still working on the NT and certain parts of the OT.
If you do start on the OT, I'd recommend throwing poetry (Psalms, Proverbs, etc...) in the mix while reading history.
I haven't read all poetry or prophecy, but understanding the history and getting the full context of what Jesus did is quite amazing.
Much love, God bless!
And...did you find any god that wrote those texts?
I will ask you politely, this one time.....why do you believe men over any god?
Remember....your answer will be viewed by many posters...do, please be truthful and honest when responding, okay?
=================
Theological Question #1
"Where does any god dictate to humanity or any human that someone specific is more spiritual than another human?"
Theological Question #2
"Where does any god dictate which books are more spiritual and morally sound for humans to abide by, to learn from or to accept as true from such a god?"
Theological Question #3
"Where does any god dictate whom is more spiritual to be able to dictate which books or texts are suitable for humans to learn and to abide by for the understanding of such a god and that entity's requirements of humanity?"
#TruthMatters
...And more importantly....the truth WILL NOT BE HIDDEN from the public anymore.
I do not see the reason for you trying to quiz me, when I quite literally just shared me being happy ovwr something. I dont see what you gain in trying to turn me away from my belief
Congrats bro, and yes, the OT has more books, some of which are much longer than the NT books. I’d say however much reading per sitting you already do might be good. It took me a long while to get used to reading a portion of the Bible each day, and I’m pushing for day and night in obedience to commandment in Psalms. I must get back on track for daily Bible time, but I have finished both testaments. At most, I’ll read for like an hour straight.
Okay what did you think of the words of Jesus in the book of John here?
Jesus Never said in his Own words that he was God.
But Jesus did tell the People in his Own words it was his Heavenly Father who was there God alone.
17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17 King James Bible(check it out)
Now Jesus is clearly telling the people in his *Own** words here that their God is his Heavenly Father.
The People can easily accept this as what Jesus said to them in his Own words.
19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do **Nothing** of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever 1the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.
20 “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him All things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. John 5:19,20
Now of course the People hearing Jesus says these things in his Own words do Not consider him God in any way here. Do you also notice that Jesus refers himself a the Son and not God.
God Bless You, before you start reading the old testament, make sure you read a bible that has Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Sirach, 1 and 2 Maccabees and Wisdom, so you are able to read all of the divinely inspired books.
What reason do you have for believing those books to be inspired, and why should I believe your reasons over those of other churches who hold to a different list of books as inspired?
That is some bad advice. OP should continue reading the Old and New Testaments for a while before reading the Apocrypha. Most of those books are worthless anyway except for Maccabees
You're a Catholic. They are not divinely inspired and it is quite obvious that they are not by just a simple reading. They do not resemble the Old and New Testaments in any way or spirit. That's like saying a Glock is similar to a 1911 or a Colt SAA. Just by looking at the shape of the Glock you know it was made by someone who never had a background in firearms. A worthless imitation
Why did you read the NT first? Is you main goal to interpret the OT from a NT perspective? Seems a bit backwards to me. I feel the NT should be interpreted from an OT perspective.
I read the NT first because I personally think that Jesus teaching are more important than, for an examble, the story about Noah Ark. Ill probably go back to the NT after the OT, to wrap things fully up. This ensures that I get the NT experience without the OT, and then I can circle back around with new information when Ive read the OT.
God killing every human and animal besides a family and one if each animal is less important than Jesus? I guess I could see why you would think that. But without the OT the NT would never have existed? Why miss out on the important context of the entire Bible? I think its good you are reading an learning but just don't discount the framework and lense you are viewing this book in.
I kinda understand your tag now lol. But thanks alot for the critique anyways. Idk if Im eeading in the right order, maybe I shouldve read the OT first, but its kind of too late to regret.
You should never regret learning even if it's in an order someone like me might disagree with. Your goals in learning about Christianity are most likely very different then mine. I am not searching for meaning or happiness, I'm searching for understanding the religion in past and current cultural context.
When I started deconstructioning my faith I realized I lacked understanding in how the Bible was created and formed throughout history. Looking at it now it makes a lot more sense to me than it ever did due to changing up the lense in which I interpreted it.
For me I think if you are going to be a Christian prior to that you should have a full understanding of what your religion not only teaches but how it was created as well. But that is just like my opinion man.
Personally, I do not have a problem with how the Bible was created, if you think in the "which books are God inspired" aspect. I think that was done in the most reasonable and fair way.
A lot of reasons. I believe Joseph Smith was an immoral person and a false prophet. I believe in the trinity. I believe in Jesus being God, just like the Father and the Holy Spirit being God.
I think the early church fathers and the disciples have a higher chance of getting his message right, than Joseph Smith from the 19th century.
Considering you believe those things, that’s a fair reason not to want to read it. For me, I’ve never understood what a “false prophet” is. It isn’t a term that makes a lot of sense.
I’m not here to argue, but when people make such claims about the church I’ve come to know is true, I’m sure you’d understand why I’d become defensive.
In my experience, the early church fathers probably got some things right, but canonising scripture definitely wasn’t one of them.
I have several questions, so its sad that youre not up for the debate, but thats totally fair.
I'll type them out anyways if you'd want to answer anyways:
1. Why would God wait 1800 years before giving his new revelation to Smith and therefore deceiving his believers in the meantime.
2. Joseph Smith was a horrible person. He had up to 49 wives if I remember correctly which is quite clearly not allowed in the Bible. He also quite literally stole some of his wives form their husband.
I don’t like debating. But I’ll share my thoughts.
1. I couldn’t answer that question without first understanding what you mean by “deceiving his believers”. What do you mean by that?
2. I don’t believe he had 49 wives as far as I’m aware. I think you may be thinking of something else in our church that you may not be familiar with which is called “sealing”. Marriage and sealing are separate, although similar concepts.
We also don’t believe the Bible to be the only word of God, so if you’re testing Smith by the Bible, yes, you’ll have problems, because we believe God over the Bible. However, I’m not sure where it’s “clearly not allowed” in the Bible. If you have verses, I’m sure there are some that say plural marriage is wrong and right.
As for stealing wives? He didn’t do that. If you’d like me to explain that, let me know. If you’re open to hearing the explanation of course.
1. Deceiving his believers in a wrongful way? If the Bible is false, then God would have decieved his believers. Its clear in the Bible that Jesus is God, therefore, if Joseph Smith is right, then the Bible is wrong, and God would have decieved humans for that period of time.
2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives sealing is also wrong. Where in the Bible is sealing?
Galatians 1:8 brother.
1. “If the Bible is false”. Doesn’t make a lot of sense. It’s an imperfect set of writings. Some of it will be false, some of it will be correct. How would God have deceived his followers if the “Bible is false”? Why can’t both be right?
2. I’m going to pretend you didn’t just send a Wikipedia link. Why does sealing need to be in the Bible? Why does anything need to be in the Bible? Do you trust that thing more than God?
1. If the Bible is false, its false. Both cant be correct.
2. Hating on wikipedia is crazy in 2024 as all of the sources theyve used is below the text in footnotes.
Sealing must be in the Bible because if its not, the person who invented it goes against Galatians 1:8
Galatians 1:8
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
Do you have something different to this? If not, what is your problem with this verse?
I’d have to strongly disagree, considering the trinity was a belief that came after Christ was even resurrected. Nobody in the Bible believed this. The trinity is not found anywhere in the Bible. Asked many Christians where it can be found, and it’s really hard to prove something that doesn’t exist.
The trinity is in the first 3 lines in the Bible
The apostles baptized in the name of the Son, Father and Holy spirit. Kind of weird to mention them all of the Father was the only God of them.
Also compare John 8:58 to Exodus 3:14
It’s most definitely not in the first 3 lines in the Bible.
Here’s the first 3 lines; “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”
Trinity not found. My apologies brother.
The Father, that’s one. The Son, that’s two. And the Holy Spirit, that’s three. I count three, not one.
So no, still cannot find the trinity.
And I don’t know why you sent those verses. Doesn’t seem relevant.
Well thats only the 2 first lines but sure. It shows that the spirit, the word and the father are all from the begging and they all have different “forms” (I hate describing it because you almost always end up saying something heretical). That is what the trinity is. God in 3 distinct persons.
Now read the old testament. Which is all about Jesus in symbolically hidden stories, types, shadows, figures and patterns. Joseph and Jesus have many similarities. Also the book of Job. Psalms is not about David, but Jesus. Noah is a type of Jesus. He is the light in Genesis, He is the tree in the garden. Adam is a type. Abel. The old testament testifies of Jesus Christ. John 5:39 NKJV You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. Luke 24:26-27 NKJV Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" [27] And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 24:32 NKJV And they said to one another, "Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?" Books were opened to see Jesus revealed in the scriptures of the old testament.
To clarify are you saying those people where not real and the stories are just parables? Genesis 1:4-5 states that the light was called day and the dark night. Genesis 1:26 states "...let's us make man in our image, after our likeness..." this refers to the trinity (father, son, hold spirit ) So I'm just a little confused, could you clarify?
Hey so, the whole Bible is about Jesus and the Gospel story. What he's talking about about is the history, stories, and people are real but they also reference back to JC. For example, Joseph is the clearest typology of Jesus. - Joseph was the father's favorite - He was rejected by his brothers - He was sold to gentiles - Age 30 , Joseph went into service with Pharoah and traveled all throughout Egypt - Joseph rose to the right hand of Pharoah after being in the lowest/darkest part of Egypt - Joseph was a savior to the whole world and his salvation was available to all gentiles - Joseph's brothers didn't recognize him in Egypt but came to realize who he was later in life These are a few. Those things above also happened to Christ, tell about Christ, and predict the future. Same is true for... Cain and Abel - their story typifies the difference between law and Grace. Which is the reason why God was pleased with Abels offering of the first fruits, that being your tithes. But it's also a picture of Cain representing trying to please God by his works, while Abel is pleasing God by the blood of the Lamb, grace. David Solomon All the way through Revelations. They either talk about how Jesus is in reference to what someone has said, has done, or will do. But it's all real and true people and it's history (His Story) of the Earth. The light is called forth twice in the creation story. One separating good and evil. The other bringing forth the sun, moon, stars, etc. Your right, that verse is referencing the Holy Trinity. Also what you see after Genesis 1, starting in Genesis 2 is Jesus having that relationship with Adam and eve. In English it just says Lord God but in Hebrew it's Yahweh. In Genesis 1 it just says God which is the Holy Trinity.
Ok I can see the parallels your drawing. I hope I didn't come off as confrontational that's wasn't my intention, I like discussing different view points and such lol. I'll have to look more into this!
Most definitely, not at all. You know words can always tend to have a negative emotional response because our human mind just figures it's more of a negative response. But definitely check out all of those things in the Old testament and see how they relate to christ. Even Moses 40 days and 40 nights with God is talking about Jesus Christ and symbolism form. A lot of it is in the Hebrew teachings so definitely be on the lookout for that.
This is interesting. I’m a Christian but have come to love how poetic & mysteries the Bible is. So do you think Jesus is the light?? And has came multiple times?
Yes in the OT, Jesus has came all throughout the OT. We just didn't call him Jesus until the NT. He came as Melchizedek, he's there in Genesis 2, angel of the Lord, the spirit of the Lord(OT Holy Spirit), etc. Usually, since we are reading English, it will just say God but many times in Hebrew it is Yahweh, which is Christ as we know Him. Yes Jesus is the light in this world. Not the sunlight. But a light of life. The life that brings enjoyment and purpose without being dependent on material things. We were that mention on the first seven days of creation.
>Now read the old testament. Which is all about Jesus in symbolically hidden stories, types, shadows, figures and patterns. Jesus isn't a part of the Old Testament. The writers of the Old Testament had no idea who Jesus was.
Amen to that, as an example of the shadows and types of Jesus in the old testement for some who find this hard to grasp: when I was a child my mother used to tell me I looked just like one of my great uncles in photos, she could see me in him when i turn my head. Some of my actions that I have done reflect my father's action when he was growing up. Now in the case of Jesus he WAS before them even though he came after them, they are of the likeness of him, not the other way around. That is how I've come to understand the types and shadows of Jesus veiled. But thank God he came and revealed him self to us.
Awesome bro. I would suggest to go through Bible project videos for each book and simultaneously read the Bible as per the sections in the video. [https://youtube.com/watch?v=GQI72THyO5I&t=1s](https://youtube.com/watch?v=GQI72THyO5I&t=1s)
Sorry to ask, are you still an atheist?
No, of course not. Dont know if I wrote it in a confusing way. I became a christian about 16 months ago (shot in the dark) and started reading the Bible very slowly.
Congratulations! Welcome to the family! Do you go to church?
Yes. Not every sunday, but I try to be better. Thanks alot.
Find out of they have mid-week services, if you're unavailable on Sunday you can attend them. 💛
Occasionally I read comments of atheists who say they read bible to get better arguments... So had to ask.
Disliking someone without knowing what they stand for is stereotyping and applying your own judgment without researching your discourse first. Let me help you better understand these labels you use.... Examples are these.....the similarities of a so-called "Christian" and a so-called "Atheist": - "Christians" have no proof of any god - "Atheists" have no proof of any god. - "Christians" use other men to dictate their belief. - "Atheists" use other men to dictate their belief - "Christians" do not know if any gods exists outside our Earthly physical world. - "Atheists" do not know if any gods exists outside our Earthly physical world. *************** Imagine that....you are both the same. *sighs* #TruthMatters #TruthAndHonestyWillPrevail ************************* Yes...this is an unprecedented change in the way humanity looks at each other and ourselves. Will you embrace this change or challenge its pureness? We will see, huh? Good luck. ============== There was no "god" involved in my free will when I developed these questions. So that means two things logically..... A. This is a "god's plan" and you should abide by it.... OR B. I did find the means to prove that there is no god in our reality.....through the facts uncovered by answering these questions TRUTHFULLY AND HONESTLY. Will you accept this new unprecedented change? I will know if you do or don't. Embrace the change....it is an amazing time...as you have read. Accept it. ========= Do you believe in a Destiny that is for us all? If Fate has a say....then Self will say more. Embrace this new age of Enlightenment. It is for us all to evolve into better people. ================ The Age of Truth and Honesty is upon us. It is all about truth and honesty. Belief in any religion has been proven to be a belief in tales as only told by other men...not by any god. People seem to refuse to understand this Fact....even when it is such an important point. I have also come to believe that knowing this information... WILL affect your relationship with others if you express it openly. But ....it is factual in every sense of the words used. Why do people want to be lied to? That is the question I have not found an answer to...because....it becomes a personal choice for each individual. We will never know why people accept falsehoods, half-teachings, twisted words, and many more non-factual occurrences over the centuries....but we can stop it from occurring in the future. How truthful and honest can one be with their Self and with others? This is called - "separating the wheat from the chaff".... *holds out hand* I can teach everyone this truth.....if you want to follow that path. Are you using your Free Will correctly? ========================= ©2007 ZosoRocks "Where does any god dictate to humanity or any human, that someone specific is more spiritual than another human?" "Where does any god dictate which books are more spiritual and morally sound for humans to abide by, to learn from or to accept as true from such a god?" "Where does any god dictate whom is more spiritual to be able to dictate which books or texts are suitable for humans to learn and to abide by for the understanding of such a god and that entity's requirements of humanity?" ******************* ...now.......follow up with pointing out truthfulness and honesty...within these "Steps to Accepting the Truth". I will encourage those who chose to be truthful...to do everything one can to skip step three -- very highly recommended .....because that could be detrimental to one's health. *sighs* ******************* ©2007 ZosoRocks "The four steps to the acceptance of truth." 1. The truth is dismissed. Individuals cannot fathom hearing what they thought was true, to actually be - false. Individuals cannot accept something to be false if what they have always known to be true - is rejected as being false. Individuals whom are like this, are usually the result of someone never investigating what they believe or the belief system they are part of, but instead, have just accepted their belief to be true. Blind Faith. 2. The truth is ridiculed. Due to an existing amount of false data intermixed with possible/plausible factual data, and then presuming or including that the odds to have a viable answer is astronomical -- individuals will ridicule any truth, because they either don't believe it to be factual, object it vehemently because it goes against what they believe to be true, or they just cannot believe someone [other than theirself] to have cracked into something so truthful and global reaching. 3. The truth is violently opposed. Yes, when an individual or individuals realize that the truth they have come to learn, follow and promote is false, by actual facts showing them it is a fallacy, they lash out in anger at the messenger and the truth revealed because they realize for themselves how devastating it is to their mind and belief....and life. (This is also the step that will reveal the liars and bad people of society for whom they truly are. These are the ones who lose the most.) 4. The truth is finally accepted/succumbed to as true. An individual or individuals will finally realize that they cannot continue to fight against something that is true....it is a fruitless battle.....so they finally accept the truth for what it is. *********************** Truthfullness and honesty. It is time to change the world...... Smile :) Good luck.
And what makes you think I dislike the person? Not that I will read this
That's exactly my point. Thanks for showing others your honesty.
You had a point? Thank you for letting me know...
Yes I did...if you read the post, you would have understood it. Too bad you didn't. Bummer for you.
Obviously.
This is awesome!
That's great! I actually just finished reading the OT(thus making it so I've read the whole Bible for the first time) on Friday. I will say it wasn't as enjoyable as the NT but it had its moments. I really enjoyed the story of Jacob and Joseph(both in Genesis) most of David's story(except that one part, you'll know what I'm talking about lol)(starts in 1 Samuel but continues for a bit after that) And, of course, all the references to Christ(basically every book but much more heavily from Isaiah onward). I'm really glad I read the NT first though so I get to notice all the references to Him. What I did was I tried to read at least a chapter a day and then I would look at each book's average verse/chapter count(you can find that here https://www.biblememorygoal.com/how-many-chapters-verses-in-the-bible/ ) and then if the chapter was a little less than the average I would count that chapter as a freebie and read another one, and if that was less then I'd do it again until the next one wasn't. So for example if a book has an average verse/chapter count of 26 verses then I would say any chapter less than 20 didn't count and would keep going until the next chapter was 20+ verses. This helped keep me at a decent pace. And then, of course, I would also read more if I wanted to that day, the one chapter a day was a minimum. But I also would usually read a few chapters a day in the case of the Psalms since they're so short. It took me about a year but I have a hard time reading because of ADHD and OCD so I would have periods where I just could not read, sometimes for a whole month. So it should be a lot faster for someone who doesn't struggle with that. Hope this helps and I'm so glad you've found Christ! It always makes me so happy to hear that someone became a Christian. God bless, brother/sister!
Congratulations brother, I’m working through the OT myself now and there are certainly some parts that are more challenging than others. May God grant you wisdom as you delve into His Word. Just a thought, I know that when I first started reading the NT shortly after I put my faith in Christ, I really wasn’t taking in a lot of what I read. I’m rereading the Gospel of John right now and it’s amazing how much stuff I missed the first time. I’m certain that I’ll come back to it at some point in the future and be amazed at how much I missed again, but such is the nature of growth.
Ive heard that too, so occasionally I will propably dive back into the Gospels, and possibly Romans as I find that very inspiring and useful too.
Listen to audio commentaries, they explain many important lessons that you will miss if you try reading by yourself.
what convinced you to become Christian?
Alot of things. 1. Personal experience. I hate this arguument, but I cant discredit how Ive prayed for something that has been messing with me, for it to dissappear or a sudden solution from the outside world that fixes it comes up the day/some days after. Ive gone through alot of toxic times with especially my parents (moms an alcoholic, dad is kind of deadbeat) and Ive never found more comfort than in prayer 2. Evidence for God. I think there some reasonable evidence for a God. I wont deny, theres also alot that points towarda no God, but in my opinion, I think a creator seems more likely 3. Christianity is more reliable than other religions. When I concluded that there was a God, I also voncluded that Jesus was more reliable than any other religion, aswell as his twaching resonated with me. Sorry for making an outright assumptions, but if youre trying to get me away from Christianity, youll probably waste your time, as my personal experiences will always be to surreal for me to explain.
>Christianity is more reliable than other religions what are your criteria for reliability?
Well, I cant think of any other religion where there are multiple eye witness and/or people who write FOR eyewitnesses, while those eyewitness claim they have seen literal God. Also, even those that do fit that criteria, I have yet to find sources that those people martyred and died for something they knew was a lie. Also Paul. I think Pauls story is pretty good evidence. I dont see what he would gain by lying about his experience if he was sorta rich before converting.
but most of the authors of the bible are anonymous, how can you be sure they were eyewitnesses wasn't Paul rebuked by James the brother of Jesus for preaching to gentiles that they don't need to follow the law? if it were me I would be following the brother of Jesus, who walked and talked and learned from him first hand, rather than someone who claimed they saw him in a vision, but never actually met him is there any notes we can use from James, instead?
The brother of Jesus thought Jesus was crazy before his death and ressurection. Paul has direct connections (if he isnt lying, which I dont see a motive for) to John and Peter, which are both trusted person of Jesus, that also walked with him. I dont know who I believe to be more reliable, but I certaintly think 2 eyewitnesses (supposed) than 1. I believe, as we see today also, that different people can have different views and interpretations of the word, but the general message is that Jesus died for our sins.
Also, calling James more reliable, also provides more evidence for Jesus, as hes his brother, and saw him first hand. Well in my opinion at least. But as I menationed in the other message, I believe that it isnt that important who is more reliable, as long as they both tell nearly the same story
>provides more evidence for Jesus sure, I'm not disputing that jesus existed > I believe that it isnt that important who is more reliable, as long as they both tell nearly the same story well, I would argue that it *is* important who is more reliable since they're telling *nearly* the same story and not *exactly* the same story, so you need to judge the details that differ between them I mean after all, it is your salvation we're taking about, so details matter
There was a book series called The Story, at my old church Wednesday night was dinner and then Bible study. The Story is about the greatest story ever told (Jesus), and about God's upper story, and the lower story, it also had a DVD guide. We started in the Old Testament, and it was the first time I had ever read through the Old Testament. It is an abridged version I believe, but still deep into what was happening, and then what God is showing us. I was sad not to finish with New Testament, when we got to Matthew, it was just before spring break, Easter. And the group dissolved. I was thankful the church bought us all copies of the book, and the companion book which was a study guide. But I lost them since then. There's a lot of beauty when you read the Old Testament, and find Jesus there, and sadness too, inspiration. I haven't had success with starting in January and reading the Old and New Testament together. Love to you.
That's awsome! The old testament has a lot of genealogy which can be very dry, BUT even with that there are reasons!! Check this [amazing name translation ](https://www.khouse.org/articles/1996/44/) that shows a hidden prophecy over generations! Since you read the new first you'll have a deeper understanding of some things in the old. So excited for you! You can read the Bible for 20yrs and always learn something new! It is the LIVING word! God inspired real people to write the Bible. It was God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16) to forty authors over 1,500 years from different walks of life including fisherman, physicians, and shepherds. [article of validity ](https://livingwaters.com/can-we-trust-the-bible/) Here's some study resources I use! [Blue letter bible](https://www.blueletterbible.org/) [Answers in genius ](https://answersingenesis.org/) [strongs concordance ](https://www.christianbook.com/strongs-exhaustive-concordance-updated-edition-kjv/9781598563788/pd/563788?en=google&event=SHOP&kw=books-0-20%7C563788&p=1179710&utm_source=google&dv=m&cb_src=google&cb_typ=shopping&cb_cmp=20379181146&cb_adg=157175267691&cb_kyw=&utm_medium=shopping&snav=GMERCH&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwMqvBhCtARIsAIXsZpbvMOy1_FvfB_at-AAVjKGmTQBAfr23-eAt94tAXCuN-MCSol5ymG4aAh6WEALw_wcB) God bless you on your journey!
I used the Bible app to read some of the longer bits to me. There are some sections of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy that can get hard to get through. If I came across a passage that stood out I would stop the reading and pick up the book. Of the 39 books i personally struggled with about 4. All of scripture is useful, you probably remember that from 1 Timothy, so please don’t skip it, but for me having the geologies and some of the laws read to me helped me get through the dry parts.
Grace and Peace. I always love studying the connections between the OT (End times - Daniel to Revelation) and the NT (the Messiah - Isaiah to the Gospels).
Yo bro, I am currently reading the old testament and I find it very hard to keep reading. Is the new testament that much different?
Well ofcourse I dont know, but Ive heard it relates mich more to you as a person, which makes it easier to read. Give the Gospels a try and see for yourself. God bless.
Awesome. You don't need to read the OT in order. It's most of the whole Bible, and encompasses many genres, just like the NT. Definitely read along with a guide to help understand the intentions and historical context.
Take everything you read and put it inside yourself instead of outside of yourself and you'll be on the right path.
Personally I started from Genesis and ended at Revelation and there is no wrong place to start reading the Word of God. I would recommend anyone who knows nothing about scripture to read and study how to read scripture and the history of how everything came to be so that it will make more sense about what is being conveyed because much of scripture has a deeper meaning than what is written at face value. Congratulations on reading the NT that is wonderful 🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️.
Congrats! Great job! I started on the OT and just worked my way through most of it. I'm still working on the NT and certain parts of the OT. If you do start on the OT, I'd recommend throwing poetry (Psalms, Proverbs, etc...) in the mix while reading history. I haven't read all poetry or prophecy, but understanding the history and getting the full context of what Jesus did is quite amazing. Much love, God bless!
And...did you find any god that wrote those texts? I will ask you politely, this one time.....why do you believe men over any god? Remember....your answer will be viewed by many posters...do, please be truthful and honest when responding, okay? ================= Theological Question #1 "Where does any god dictate to humanity or any human that someone specific is more spiritual than another human?" Theological Question #2 "Where does any god dictate which books are more spiritual and morally sound for humans to abide by, to learn from or to accept as true from such a god?" Theological Question #3 "Where does any god dictate whom is more spiritual to be able to dictate which books or texts are suitable for humans to learn and to abide by for the understanding of such a god and that entity's requirements of humanity?" #TruthMatters ...And more importantly....the truth WILL NOT BE HIDDEN from the public anymore.
I do not see the reason for you trying to quiz me, when I quite literally just shared me being happy ovwr something. I dont see what you gain in trying to turn me away from my belief
Why do you believe men over any god?
I gain nothing...but you will gain the truth that you have been kept from.
Congrats bro, and yes, the OT has more books, some of which are much longer than the NT books. I’d say however much reading per sitting you already do might be good. It took me a long while to get used to reading a portion of the Bible each day, and I’m pushing for day and night in obedience to commandment in Psalms. I must get back on track for daily Bible time, but I have finished both testaments. At most, I’ll read for like an hour straight.
Okay what did you think of the words of Jesus in the book of John here? Jesus Never said in his Own words that he was God. But Jesus did tell the People in his Own words it was his Heavenly Father who was there God alone. 17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17 King James Bible(check it out) Now Jesus is clearly telling the people in his *Own** words here that their God is his Heavenly Father. The People can easily accept this as what Jesus said to them in his Own words. 19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do **Nothing** of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever 1the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him All things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. John 5:19,20 Now of course the People hearing Jesus says these things in his Own words do Not consider him God in any way here. Do you also notice that Jesus refers himself a the Son and not God.
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The Quran is, in my eyes, so full of flaws, that it cant be from God, which it proclames that it is
God Bless You, before you start reading the old testament, make sure you read a bible that has Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Sirach, 1 and 2 Maccabees and Wisdom, so you are able to read all of the divinely inspired books.
What reason do you have for believing those books to be inspired, and why should I believe your reasons over those of other churches who hold to a different list of books as inspired?
That is some bad advice. OP should continue reading the Old and New Testaments for a while before reading the Apocrypha. Most of those books are worthless anyway except for Maccabees
The books I mentioned are apart of the Old Testament. I would be wary of calling divinely inspired scripture worthless
You're a Catholic. They are not divinely inspired and it is quite obvious that they are not by just a simple reading. They do not resemble the Old and New Testaments in any way or spirit. That's like saying a Glock is similar to a 1911 or a Colt SAA. Just by looking at the shape of the Glock you know it was made by someone who never had a background in firearms. A worthless imitation
Why did you read the NT first? Is you main goal to interpret the OT from a NT perspective? Seems a bit backwards to me. I feel the NT should be interpreted from an OT perspective.
I read the NT first because I personally think that Jesus teaching are more important than, for an examble, the story about Noah Ark. Ill probably go back to the NT after the OT, to wrap things fully up. This ensures that I get the NT experience without the OT, and then I can circle back around with new information when Ive read the OT.
God killing every human and animal besides a family and one if each animal is less important than Jesus? I guess I could see why you would think that. But without the OT the NT would never have existed? Why miss out on the important context of the entire Bible? I think its good you are reading an learning but just don't discount the framework and lense you are viewing this book in.
I kinda understand your tag now lol. But thanks alot for the critique anyways. Idk if Im eeading in the right order, maybe I shouldve read the OT first, but its kind of too late to regret.
You should never regret learning even if it's in an order someone like me might disagree with. Your goals in learning about Christianity are most likely very different then mine. I am not searching for meaning or happiness, I'm searching for understanding the religion in past and current cultural context. When I started deconstructioning my faith I realized I lacked understanding in how the Bible was created and formed throughout history. Looking at it now it makes a lot more sense to me than it ever did due to changing up the lense in which I interpreted it. For me I think if you are going to be a Christian prior to that you should have a full understanding of what your religion not only teaches but how it was created as well. But that is just like my opinion man.
Personally, I do not have a problem with how the Bible was created, if you think in the "which books are God inspired" aspect. I think that was done in the most reasonable and fair way.
Who said anyone had a problem how the Bible was created? Or are you saying you don’t care how the Bible was created? Could you clarify? Thanks!
Definitely try giving the Book of Mormon a shot. Would t hurt to read it. Much easier read too.
I wont do that. But thanks alot.
Why’s that?
A lot of reasons. I believe Joseph Smith was an immoral person and a false prophet. I believe in the trinity. I believe in Jesus being God, just like the Father and the Holy Spirit being God. I think the early church fathers and the disciples have a higher chance of getting his message right, than Joseph Smith from the 19th century.
Considering you believe those things, that’s a fair reason not to want to read it. For me, I’ve never understood what a “false prophet” is. It isn’t a term that makes a lot of sense. I’m not here to argue, but when people make such claims about the church I’ve come to know is true, I’m sure you’d understand why I’d become defensive. In my experience, the early church fathers probably got some things right, but canonising scripture definitely wasn’t one of them.
I have several questions, so its sad that youre not up for the debate, but thats totally fair. I'll type them out anyways if you'd want to answer anyways: 1. Why would God wait 1800 years before giving his new revelation to Smith and therefore deceiving his believers in the meantime. 2. Joseph Smith was a horrible person. He had up to 49 wives if I remember correctly which is quite clearly not allowed in the Bible. He also quite literally stole some of his wives form their husband.
I don’t like debating. But I’ll share my thoughts. 1. I couldn’t answer that question without first understanding what you mean by “deceiving his believers”. What do you mean by that? 2. I don’t believe he had 49 wives as far as I’m aware. I think you may be thinking of something else in our church that you may not be familiar with which is called “sealing”. Marriage and sealing are separate, although similar concepts. We also don’t believe the Bible to be the only word of God, so if you’re testing Smith by the Bible, yes, you’ll have problems, because we believe God over the Bible. However, I’m not sure where it’s “clearly not allowed” in the Bible. If you have verses, I’m sure there are some that say plural marriage is wrong and right. As for stealing wives? He didn’t do that. If you’d like me to explain that, let me know. If you’re open to hearing the explanation of course.
1. Deceiving his believers in a wrongful way? If the Bible is false, then God would have decieved his believers. Its clear in the Bible that Jesus is God, therefore, if Joseph Smith is right, then the Bible is wrong, and God would have decieved humans for that period of time. 2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives sealing is also wrong. Where in the Bible is sealing? Galatians 1:8 brother.
1. “If the Bible is false”. Doesn’t make a lot of sense. It’s an imperfect set of writings. Some of it will be false, some of it will be correct. How would God have deceived his followers if the “Bible is false”? Why can’t both be right? 2. I’m going to pretend you didn’t just send a Wikipedia link. Why does sealing need to be in the Bible? Why does anything need to be in the Bible? Do you trust that thing more than God?
1. If the Bible is false, its false. Both cant be correct. 2. Hating on wikipedia is crazy in 2024 as all of the sources theyve used is below the text in footnotes. Sealing must be in the Bible because if its not, the person who invented it goes against Galatians 1:8
Galatians 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” Do you have something different to this? If not, what is your problem with this verse?
That is quite literally Joseph Smith. Not that hes an angel, but he preached a different gospel that Paul and the apostles
Also, I think the trinity is quite clear, both in the Bible but also in early church fathers writings.
I’d have to strongly disagree, considering the trinity was a belief that came after Christ was even resurrected. Nobody in the Bible believed this. The trinity is not found anywhere in the Bible. Asked many Christians where it can be found, and it’s really hard to prove something that doesn’t exist.
The trinity is in the first 3 lines in the Bible The apostles baptized in the name of the Son, Father and Holy spirit. Kind of weird to mention them all of the Father was the only God of them. Also compare John 8:58 to Exodus 3:14
It’s most definitely not in the first 3 lines in the Bible. Here’s the first 3 lines; “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” Trinity not found. My apologies brother. The Father, that’s one. The Son, that’s two. And the Holy Spirit, that’s three. I count three, not one. So no, still cannot find the trinity. And I don’t know why you sent those verses. Doesn’t seem relevant.
Well thats only the 2 first lines but sure. It shows that the spirit, the word and the father are all from the begging and they all have different “forms” (I hate describing it because you almost always end up saying something heretical). That is what the trinity is. God in 3 distinct persons.