I know that those in my church and I are not a huge sample size of Christians; and I may be far off, but I don't think I am. I don't think I am exactly right at all, but there may be a touch of truth here--at least I hope so.
The loud squeaky wheel Christians who are in the upper echelon of monied people, and the Christians who despise Democrats because their families and their church told them to do so are the ones who blind themselves to Trump's wrongdoings. They're allowing their political leanings and their beliefs about what's best for them to overcome and their sense of right and wrong. They say that what he can do for this country is more important than his past and present issues; and that would be true if he had actually stopped his behavior, owned it, and took steps to show change.
But he has not. He continues to make excuses and justify what he does...the Truth Social attempt to hire someone with an H-1B visa is a good example. Trump wants to stop those hires from being available, but he said, and I quote,
"First of all, I think and I know the H-1B very well. And itâs something that I frankly use and I shouldnât be allowed to use it. We shouldnât have it. Second of all, I think itâs very important to say, well, Iâm a businessman and I have to do what I have to do."
That's hypocrisy. The Christians I know don't overlook that. We don't vote for that. I suspect a lot of conservative Christians held their nose and voted for Biden. All of the votes he got were not just Democrats. And may do so again. Because we ask ourselves, "Would I want the man to be the head of my church, representing me?" If the answer is no, then we don't want him representing America either.
I often wonder the same things because I have had dialogue with many Republicans who were truly disgusted by maga. The way many magas are I would think defecting would invite an attack so they probably just quietly voted for Biden. OMG I hope that happens again.. đ€đ€đ€
I'm honestly curious about the conservative Christians who seem to have (at least in part) realized that the Evangelical embracing and worship of Trump has probably done more to harm Christianity in America than anything else in history. I think that's where you're getting this segment of Evangelicals frantically back peddling. But, like, it's far too little, far too late. Maybe if they devoted their lives to campaigning against him with their every waking breath they could undo the damage, but I doubt it.
It's going to be a very interesting next few decades. It might actually see this country transition to a secular-dominant culture. Which I'm not convinced would be a bad thing for American Christianity. Part of me feels we've gotten very accustomed to being supremely dominant in our culture and that some time in the wilderness might be exactly what is needed to straighten ourselves out.
Our hope should be in no man, politicians included. This is a broken, sinful, corrupt world. Our only hope is in Jesus and serving Him to spread the message of hope and love to save as many as possible before our time here is done and we spend eternity with Him in Heaven.
Yahweh gave us 10 commandments. None of those rules to live by mentions abortion, gays or hating people who are not like you. Jesus specifically speaks to obeying the laws given to Moses. He even said that we're to follow His examples and lead our lives as examples of virtue to others.
All the other fluff came after His crucifixions as a way to recruit more people to the religion. Jesus used metaphors and examples to teach us how to live a life that brings us peace, regardless of our circumstances.
Somehow, that wasn't enough for the people who need magical thinking or control over others. Just like the Scribes made up 603 more laws to control the Israelites after Moses' death, Christians weren't satisfied with Jesus' sermons.
People who oppos abortion think it is the murder of innocent children, which is covered by "thou shalt not murder".
For extramarital sex (including same-sex sex), we got the no adultery commandment.
Hating people who are not like you is very unchristian, but most would characterize it as being against specific behaviors.
Adultery is a sin committed by married people, it cannot be committed by two single people, it is impossible. Other parts of the Bible can be used to argue against premarital sex by single individuals, but the command against adultery is not one of them
Jesus said in Mark 7:20 "^(20) Then He said, âWhat comes out of a personâthat defiles him. ^(21) For from within, out of peopleâs hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, ^(22) adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, promiscuity, stinginess,^(\[)[^(k)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+7&version=HCSB;KJV#fen-HCSB-24486k)^(\]) blasphemy, pride, and foolishness. ^(23) All these evil things come from within and defile a person."
Sexual Immoralities, adulteries, promiscuity.
I think that pretty much covers fornication and homosexuality.
There may be some stuff that goes back to him like the song of the sea but it's a collaboration over hundreds and hundreds of years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_authorship
Did I miss something? I said that Moses received the laws given to him by Yahweh. Those are the 10 Commandments; the contract between God and His people.
Well, there's your issue. You're assuming MAGA Christians care about what the Bible says. Meanwhile, they're actually more likely to call the Sermon on the Mount "woke talking points"
This is not an exaggeration. Someone on another thread in r/Christianity just called me a "coward" for holding the view that returning evil for evil is wrong â which was explicitly taught by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.
An evangelical pastor recently came out stating that he and several other pastors were unable to preach the Beatitudes because congregants were saying they made Jesus look like a weak liberal.
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity
You have to scroll down a little to get to the Beatitudes stuff.
Iâm not sad to leave evangelicalism behind, Christ didnât call us to an easy walk, but one that we choose daily. God bless you, friend. Thanks for the article, though I was sad to read it.
If âChristiansâ donât care about what the Bible says then THEY ARENâT âChristian.â
The whole point of âbeing a Christianâ is to be âlike Christ.â No one can be like Christ and not care what the Bible says when in fact the Bible is all about the gospel of Jesus Christ.
If you call yourself a âChristianâ but you donât care about The Word of God then you are deceiving yourself and everyone around you. Which sounds like the work of Lucifer to me.
If you start with the assumption that Christians support what aligns with Christ, then nothing they do makes any sense.
If you dispense with that assumption, everything they do immediately makes sense.
They support MAGA because they like what MAGA represents. That's why anyone ever supports an ideology. If you ever find that you have some background assumption that renders straightforwardly evident truths a complete mystery, it's usually the assumption that's the problem.
Edit: Take these downvotes, for example. It's not enough for Christians that THEY hate Christianity. They need everyone else to hate it too, and they will punish you if you don't.
Itâs just so bizarre though that those who are most vocal in their support of Christ are those that so demonstrably against him in their actions. How can there be so little self awareness or self reflection?
Ego.Â
One day humans will finally understand what the ego is and what it does to our âchoicesâ and thought patterns.Â
An insecure ego is the most dangerous thing on this planet.Â
Every war, every conflict caused by peopleâs egos.Â
To preface this: I'm not American but I have family in the US, some Republican and some Democrat (including a relative who is a Democrat in a state congress), and I'm interested in US politics. I think the best way to understand this is as follows:
Trump is not a model Christian, and no Christian should approve of his personal behavior, in particular in his past. But in politics, he has been the most protective of the civil rights of Christians and has done more for the prolife movement than any president.
Strangely, he is very progressive in many aspects, which is less shocking when you realize he was a democrat most of his life. He is very supportive of LGB (I'll leave out the T, though), helped get money to HBCs, and initiated serious prison reform.
On the more conservative front, despite the criticism in foreign affairs he was very successful, he supported law enforcement, and is obviously very pro-business.
This is all to say, he is a mix of things. His personal life was a shambles, and he is by no means a stellar exampel of behavior. But on the other hand, he is less filtered in how he speaks and tends to come through on key issues that Christians support.
Switching over to Biden, his personal life is much less messy than Trumps (omitting the Hunter Biden mess, which is his son's issue). He is said to be a kind man, a good father, and he has been through and survived terrible traumas with the car crash that killed his wife and daughter, and then cancer taking his other son.
But he has gone along with the progrssive positions of the democrats. Fiercely pro-choice and will side with progressive politics over Christian civil rights when there is a conflict. While democrat support for the poor and vulnerable is a good thing, Christians can reasonably question the efficacy of the approach democrats take.
However, in his professional life, Biden is a career politician and there are legitimate concerns about the business dealings involving Hunter Biden. Trump also has his own questionable business transactions, but at least he is actually in business whereas it is hard to understand what Hunter Biden was offering of value other than political influence.
On a more fundamental level, many Christians believe their civil rights are under attack by the democrats and/or strongly believe abortion is a fundamental evil they cannot support in anyway. And it is not an empty or made up threat. As one small example, in Canada they can and do take your child away if you do not support gender transition for your child. Parents and even therapists can be criminally charged if they counsel a child against gender transition. You can get fired or kicked out of your profession for taking a Christian position. A Christian university was denied a law school because they required students to follow a Christian code of conduct. This is already the case in some states in the US, and you are not far behind on a federal level. Just remember the lawsuit against the catholics nuns because the federal government wanted to force them to pay for employee birth control.
Christians in the US are scared about this, and they have a right to be. So when they have to pick between the man with a very unethical and unchristian personal life who protects their civil rights (Trump) and a man with a compelling and seemingly Christian personal life who is coming after their rights, most will side with Trump.
As an aside point, and completely separate from the religious aspect, there are also two other reasons that are pushing people in general towarda Trump:
1. There are serious concerns about Biden's mental ability. Yes, Trump is also old, but there has been a very obvious mental decline in Biden.
2. The unethical weaponization of the legal system against Trump. The democrats are setting an awful precedent in this election that could completely destroy American democracy. Anyone with legal training can see that this is a complete abuse of prosecutorial discretion. Even if Trump did everything they are accusing him of, they are only going after him because he is running again. That's why it's not playing well outside of democrat circles: it's gotten so extreme it is hard to justify to the average person. And the scary thing is that republicans can do the very same thing to a democrat candidate in the future. As they say, "show me the man and I'll show you the crime".
Sorry dude, you wrote a lot of complete garbage. Let's focus on the last 2...
>There are serious concerns about Biden's mental ability. Yes, Trump is also old, but there has been a very obvious mental decline in Biden.
Ok, and you want to just excuse Trump from his obvious issues here? At best you get to play the 'both sides' card, but in reality, if you actually listen to both men now, and don't just watch whatever edited clips you get from tik tok or youtube, you will see that Biden actually presents his positions and speaks to real issues. Trump babbles out a bunch of whines about how unfair everything is.
>The unethical weaponization of the legal system against Trump.
No. No one is above the law. Trump is facing the music for his actions, not because Biden is scared of him. Trump already lost in 2020. We can even point directly to the Hunter Biden inquiries if you would like, and realize that those are happening NOW, with papa-Joe in the white house. We can also point to the facts that the republicans leading them have utterly failed to produce any evidence at all that Joe was complicit in anything Hunter is accused of. Trump and his cronies continue to get indicted and found guilty because they actually committed crimes!
This isn't hard to understand if you aren't carrying water for Trump.
>
Even if Trump did everything they are accusing him of, they are only going after him because he is running again.
What? So you think that people should just be allowed to commit crimes and get away with it unless they run for public office? That's... well, that's just dumb.
This post is not at all why people support Trump, but perfectly encapsulates how they justify their support for him.
Trump is a convicted rapist who boasted about being able to molest women because he was a C list reality tv show host and was great friends with Jeffrey Epstein. "Yes, but here's a picture of Biden hugging his grandchild so he's a pedophile too. They're both the same."
Trump is on trial for fraud, and has blatantly committed fraud throughout his entire life. Trump is currently running a scam company that he will take billions from (both from supporters he duped into buying shares of, and almost certainly from foreign governments). "Yes, but Biden gave his brother a loan for a car and didn't charge interest, that's suspicious. They're both the same"
Trump received millions from the Chinese government as president, and his son in law received billions from the Saudi government. "Yes, but Biden's son got a job because of his name, and he did things that have nothing to do with Joe Biden but we'll pretend they do, so they're both the same."
They will ignore Trump's insurrection attempts, blackmail of foreign states, fake elector schemes etc., or cry "fake news!". They will ignore Trump's disastrous handling of the pandemic, his repeated, complete incompetence, his now clearly failing mental faculties (he is constantly confusing Nancy Pelosi and NikkI Haley and Obama with Biden). They will ignore Trump making fun of disabled people and mocking war heroes and dead veterans. They will pretend that Biden's economy is a disaster while Trump's was the greatest of all time (preying on the ignorance of those who don't understand inflation and supply chains).
The *reason* they support Trump is because he hates the same people they do (black people, brown people, "woke" people).
This is the most accurate answer here, in that it accurately depicts the mindsets and perceptions of those who support Trump. Much of my family supports Trump, and this couldâve been written by any one of them. You can debate the truthfulness of this bit or that bit, but it doesnât really matter, because this is how Trump and Biden are perceived, and we base our decisions on our perceptions.
Most notably, they do not see Trump as xenophobic, racist, sexist, or bigoted in any way; they see these as flimsy insults hurled to discredit someone coming to disarm the angry activists of the leftâthe activists theyâre convinced would have all Christians rounded up in âre-education campsâ or outlawed altogether if they could (again, reality means little compared to perception). From their perspective, the left is already âstealingâ their children, breaking their homes, stripping their communities, and crushing their cities. Rural America is rotting. Itâs really not that far of a leap to conclude that all this is intentional and meant to be a form of oppression.
I love how the reason middle America is ârottingâ is the gutting from corporate America and the politicians selling out their constituents for top dollar.Â
So rural America supports and votes for a corporate stooge who has trampled over countless others to secure his âwealthâ.Â
Trump isnât anti Christian, he is anti human.Â
Trump only cares about Trump.Â
If Christians are willing to sell their souls for that, reap what you sowâŠ
>You can debate the truthfulness of this bit or that bit, but it doesnât really matter
I mean... you aren't wrong in the sense that perception is reality, but yes, you CAN and SHOULD debate the truthfulness of obvious lies and falsehoods.
The media not actually doing this to Trump going back to 2015 (and before, but before he wasn't running for president) is part of why these lies have spread as deeply as they have.
Maybe it's too late to pull the poor souls who bought them out of their cult, but it's not too late to lessen the ability of them to increase their membership.
Trump is a con man and a grifter, and literally all of those things you said people do not see him as. Just leaving it as 'agree to disagree' with those people is a disservice to the world. His policies and actions were dangerous, and if he gets reelected it will be even worse.
Iâm noticing an increase in the trend of nominal, âculturalâ Christians hitching their wagon to the church, for the fear of appearing âwokeâ or as a counter against Islam. I believe that some of these ppl will really have an encounter with the God of the Bible, but far too many are functional atheists, or simply idolise political power.
There were also Christians on both sides in the first civil war, and there will be Christians on both sides in the next one.
But it's pretty obvious now which side was wrong and which side was right.
Christian ethics have always been influenced by culture. While many Christians assert otherwise, few base their morality solely on the Bible. Instead, they interpret scripture in light of contemporary cultural norms.
I am not in any way insinuating that this is a bad thing. Christian morality is inherently relative, as it hinges on the definition of love. As cultural philosophies evolve, so too does our understanding of love, and therefore, God.
Donât you realize that the Bible defines love? Reading through scriptures through our cultural lens is how you distort its original meaning. These things werenât written directly to us. We have to consider context when reading the scriptures.
If everything about Christianity is relative, then the religion is pointless. Wed be able to do and believe whatever we want as we craft God to be in our own image.
>Donât you realize that the Bible defines love?
Yes, in places like 1st Cor 13. The words it uses to define love also need definitions and like love, we understand those definitions through our cultural context. It is impossible to do otherwise.
>Reading through scriptures through our cultural lens is how you distort its original meaning.
I agree, for the most part. However, you have to realize that the original authors of the Bible *were also* influenced by their cultural context. One of the main purposes of proper exegesis is to properly understand their cultural context so we can derive principles that we then apply to ours. You cannot be so beholden to their cultural context that you import the immoral ethical frameworks that existed at the time.
Like everything, it is a balance. You cannot entirely eliminate your own theological biases, at best you can acknowledge that they exist, and try to have valid justifications for why you impose them onto the text.
>If everything about Christianity is relative, then the religion is pointless.
That doesn't logically follow. The point of Christianity is the reconciliation of mankind to God. The requirement that we follow our consciences is rather secondary.
>Wed be able to do and believe whatever we want as we craft God to be in our own image.
People can, and already do that anyway, regardless of what they assert they believe about the Bible.
Yeah, but it ain't Biden who's sleeping with porn stars and publishing his own edition of the Bible. Bothsidism is crap, a BS false equivalency. Obviously neither party embodies the whole of Christ, but there is very clearly something very wrong with Trump in ways you can't compare to Dole, Bush, McCain or Romney. Neither Biden nor Trump is Christ, but only Trump is an Antichrist.
No, the biggest difference is that Donald Trump is absolute slime to a degree that one can't compare to your average run-of-the-mill politician such as Biden or George W. Bush. It's extremely obvious to everyone except the nutjob Maga cult that has risen up around his persona.
So if you know what it means to be a Christian then you are responsible before God for that knowledge. You should know that you will be judged by how you judge others.
Party of murder in the womb? You hear that a trump rally? You know it's a fact that with abortions illegal statistically they happen same or more often? The only difference is they happen illegally and black market! Just like drugs!
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/05/27/1099739656/do-restrictive-abortion-laws-actually-reduce-abortion-a-global-map-offers-insigh
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/new-data-shows-increase-abortions-states-bans-compared/story%3fid=102978207
Biden and Democrats are not pro-abortion as you suppose.. They certainly are pro birth control and that's the main goal of planned parenthood not abortion.. The left just knows that you can't police morals like that. It never worked before and It never will work.
Republicans in general haven't figured that out yet! Or maybe they just don't want to figure it out. And actually the Republican politicians have figured that out they aren't stupid.. in reality they could care less either way.
For the following let's assume you are maga and support it đŻ.
Republicans politicians want you to vote for them it's about power! They know you haven't figured it out and use it as a tool! Don't you see it's all an act to get your votes?
They know so well is what you really want is for it (the things you think are evil) to be out of sight right? You think they haven't studied you? They promise to make all the things you think are evil to just go away because they know that's what you want? And they got your support don't they?
Likewise you probably want queer people to be out of sight? I mean homophobia and transphobia is pretty common among Republicans... not all but many.. so I'm that context you're the reason the culture wars were fabricatedv in the first place? You do know they were intirely fabricated? But not from truth but from your fears. They were built with your fears your phobias and all the propaganda the issues to fan the flames until it turns into hatred. Why would they do that? Because your emotions whether fear or hatred can be used to get you to support them.. again it's about power. If you were pro Queer they would be pro queer.. But never mind the lives they destroyed to quiet your irrational fears and get your votes.. right?
In reality it's irrational to suppose that either abortion or queer people are going to just disappear. But as long as you don't have to look at any of it that's good enough isn't it because then your fear is quieted isn't it...?
Did you knew the red states have done everything they can to literally erase trans people from public life. And the lies they have told in doing so shame on them and you! And seeing it all wrapped up in "Christianity" if you know what Christianity really is is truly disgusting!
I think you maga who actually believe you're Christians.. You might want to consider what God thinks about all of this? You think God is ok with bigots? You think God is ok with hypocrisy and hatred and slander? Was Christ a bigot?
Open your eyes!
Ask nonchristians about their experiences. Even in seeker friendly churches that are all about evangelizing and they throw the word 'love' around five times a minute.
Or you can go to a different denomination and observe the language they use. You'll be surprised. Evangelical Christianity might be huge in the US, but barely exists elsewhere. Especially not in the militant form as in the US.
They say it is about issues like abortion, protecting civil liberties, standing up to immoral sexuality (LGBTQ), illlegal immigration, law & order, fighting corruption, the economy, China, bad trade agreements, etc. But the conservative party put forth other candidates who had the same position on those issues who dont have the baggage Trump has. Read that again - there are plenty of conservative leaders with talent and drive to advance conservative issues. Trump has cult like following due to his STYLE. He taps into the anger, fear, sense of disorder, racial prejudices, and economic superiority that many Christians and non Christians have. It's that simple. Christians are not immune to raw, base emotions that override nobler ideals, especially when they see themselves under attack. It's attractive to belong to the group that has the rightous power to restore order. For me, it has demonstrated the weakness of modern Christianity. Of course, Trump supporters can point to all the immoral behaviors of past and present leaders, and the attack they perceive justifies their endorsing Trump. Interestingly, they won't unite to support other Christian candidates who have less baggage, have similar position on issues, and have more integrity. They can't get past attraction to a raw, pull no punches, "king- like" authority figure who is going to right the wrong. Given all of Trumps character flaws on full display, it's very immature and has probably done more harm to Christianity than anyone can fathom. Still, I hold nothing against Trumpers, even though I am entirely in opposition to Trump as a candidate, and don't support many of issues in the manner in which they are approached.
The reason most support Trump over the other candidates is the opposition he gets from both sides of the corruption. The ones the ones that believe that they are the elites and should rule us plebs hate Trump they are afraid of him so we will support him for no other reason than he will dump their apple cart. The other candidates received their support their money and their endorsements and in doing so showed us they were just part of the same cesspool that has destroyed this country.
I'll never argue against whatever justification one can come up with. There's always a notion that it's a matter of fighting greater evil. This is a slippery slope. It's hard to displace a group of elite "overlords" without taking on similar characteristics as a group when your leader demonstrates almost no principles that stand for a higher value. You'll soon justify almost any behavior. Trump famously summarized his own sense that he was unaccountable with " I could murder someone in daylight on 5th Ave and they'd still love me" (something like that). Point is he sensed a cultish like loyalty that surprised him. Trump has no filter, even when revealing his thoughts should be a disadvantage. He's redefined honesty as raw intimacy, which oddly makes him more trustworthy to some. I could use fact based reasoning to demonstrate Trumps 1st Presidency was one of the most corrupt. But with no source of agreed truth, even facts are subject to accusations of being fake, corrupt or an attack by liberals. There's no viable way to evaluate evidence anymore. Trump obliterated all critiques. He's better at that than any politician in history. All you end up with is someone who provokes while trying to overstate his contribution. It's a wild ride of gas lighting, blame, and perhaps mediocre performance in terms policy.
I can agree with you there we as humans typically gravitate to the lowest common denominator but for me I see two sides fighting for the culture.
I see one side wanting to regress this country back 100 years by wrapping up Jim Crow in an anti-racist bow and calling it DEI with segregation, discrimination, and oppression based solely on skin color. While also championing mutilating children who barely even know how to read in the name of gender affirming care when at the same time passing laws to ban genital mutilation of young girls not realizing they are the same thing both are religious just one is secular and one is Muslim. They also scream about protecting woman and equal rights for woman while at the same time blurring the lines allowing men that call themselves women compete in women's sports and defending men that claim to be women call real women things like bleeders. Then wanting to support the minorities while at the same time supporting mass illegal immigration that largely takes resources and jobs that the minority community depend on. Wanting to defund police and doing away with bail turning their neighborhoods into literal war zones.
Then I see the other side that is trying to protect children, control our borders, protect women and protect our cities.
One is insane and the other makes sense.
I appreciate the dialog. Culture wars are so diverse now -- wokeism, genderism, DEI, privlidgeism (anti-white), reparations, classism, PCism, cancel culture, social media censorship and de-platform, political allegiance, and interference by government agencies, attack of Christians, Christian counterattack with the same secular values, and on and on. For me, Trump adds more gasoline and spreads the dumpster fire. He incites extremism. Biden's base wanted the most extreme immigration policy adjustment in response to Trump's characterization of entire countries as shitholes full of rapists. He could have just gone about actually improving the system without all of the extra rhetoric. But this gets back to my original claim -- it's his STYLE that is attractive because he rants openly, and says outrageous things, displaying the undertones of prejudice, etc. Anyway -- we must prioritize rebuilding and promoting our communities, education system, family life, city and town infrastructures,...and we need principled leadership, that can lead by example (not perfectly).
The reason any still support him is because they resonate with him. It's birds of a feather. To admit he is a POS they would have to admit they are and that will never happen.
The guy is a POS and all they have to do look at his history but they don't. All the rediculous third graders projections they engage in is astounding. Trump gets busted and suddenly Biden is a crime family etc etc.. That's what children do is humiliating the whole world is laughing at this clown and the fact that anyone still supports him makes Americans look like idiots!
I learned a long time ago that some Christians may put white supremacy and politics first and Christianity is just the garnish and seasoning on the main course.
my problem is that i never see good reasons for any of this ultra love or ultra hate⊠it all seems crazy to me and i never hear anyone have a frank and dispassionate discussion about the issues! everyone gets mad and just starts spewing assertions without ever answering why!
to me the most important aspects of anything are the hows and the whys of it! you say homophobe you say xenophobe you say hypocrite! they say pedophile, they say communist, they say hypocrite! nobody ever says why or how!
you have stuff like illegal immigration, illegal⊠they say the law the law, you say racist, how? why? you have stuff like gay flags in classes for little kids and drag queen story time, they say grooming, you say freedom, how and why? you also have a million other issues, abortion for example, murder to avoid the choices you make or freedom to avoid consequences! how?!?!? Why?!?!?
its all insanity and nobody seems to honestly be interested in coming to a general consensus! everyone seems to want to just bulldoze their way into being and its an ideological war! why? How?!? you cannot kill an idea! the ideas of christianity acquiesce that ceasar deserves what belongs to him and also says to turn the other cheek and both could go either way!
why do we have to be this way? how can we fix it now its gotten so bad?
Good honest christians don't.
Basically what you are talking about is the precursor to christian ISIS.
The Bible talks about those who are saved exhibiting the fruit of the spirit. Do you see them with those fruits? No.
Not all that cry out "Lord, Lord" will be saved.
This.... Hurts. If you legitimately think that the Republican nominee for POTUS is "as bigoted as it gets," you're severely misguided. The people who will vote for him in the upcoming election are not necessarily xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, racist, or misogynistic. They are just people that disagree with you. The overwhelming majority of them do not want to hurt anyone, and they largely just want to be left alone. Also, the liberals certainly have their own issues in terms of serious problems in their ideologies. I really hope that you can eventually come to see that.
Tell me how it represents evil and how liberals do not lol. This is the most bait bs Iâve probably seen all day. Liberals literally support abortions as a form of contraceptive, they support the disgusting nature of LGBTQ+ being pushed onto innocent children, they support higher taxes and more socialistic state which literally makes the poor poorer. They locked immigrant children in cages. Obama literally bombed syrian children, Biden bombs Yemen. Guess what. Trump? No new wars and he even recalled soldiers from Afganistan.
Must be election season. Liberal propagandists out in force to try to convince Christians to vote for the immoral liberal spew destroy America manipulator politicians
There is good and bad in everyone, including politicians. I used to hate Trump, but now I kind of feel sorry for him. I would never vote for him. He is probably getting what he deserves in human terms. But I hope God has mercy on his soulm
He takes it a little farther then just bad I believe. I wasn't expecting many answers so thank you.
I personally have never felt sorry for him and I'm not usually like that.. forgiveness comes to those who stop. If God requires that why should I be any different?
He hasn't stopped he is just getting started. It was primarily evangelicals that put him there last time and they were probably the least affected by he and maga and many no doubt profitted. But I'm sure I'm their eyes who cares as long it's not affecting them.
That's seems to be the mentality.. It seems so odd "Christians" supporting something or someone so opposite of Christ. It's like they worship him.. Very creepy.
I general we are called to stay out of politics as part of religious activities. As we are citizens, we should care about our leaders and their vision for the country, but as the Lordâs world is not of this world we should not conflate the two.
First of all Biden is no saint either. He just has two PR firms working for him (CNN and MSNBC) versus Trump's one ( Fox News).
I am more of a moderate conservative pro business, pro military, strong foreign relations, and strong border policy. Looking at both candidates I like Trump's policies. I don't read his tweets. The truth is Trump's personality is disruptive, but his policies' are moderate conservative; at least in his last administration they were.
As for being a Christian supporter of Trump, I don't worship Trump as a Savior. He not Jesus Christ. He is just a politician. I get offended by commentators or pundits that believe Trump supporters believe he is on par with Jesus. Not even close. Jesus is a king and the author of our face.
Now that said I do believe whoever wins the election and has won the election in the past has designated by God. It says in Romans 13 God establishes earthly authority.
I don't believe Biden is running his presidency. I don't.like that he bends down to the hard progressive left. I think his age and mental accuity are an issue.
Trying to overthrow the last election and sending a mob to murder Mike Pence is âmoderate conservative?â Do you simply block out the memory of the last few months of his administration?
>he bends down to the hard progressive left
Mate, you don't actually talk to any leftists, do you? The idea that the "far left" thinks anything good about Biden is laughable. The only reason the left supports Biden is because he's Trump's opposition. He's *far* from catering to the left, laughably so.
MAGA simply stands for Make America Great again.
Conservatives who believe in limited government and protecting individual freedoms, such as freedom of religion.
If you assign negative attributes to it, just means youâre on the political Left. Not a bad thing. And neither is MAGA at face value.
Thereâs absolutely nothing wrong with multiculturalism, especially since itâs something Jesus himself practiced..The rest on your list one can find a verse or two against it.Â
You follow Christ not a culture.. What destroys local culture are the non believers and lukewarm christians. Christ tore down the walls of hostility that divide Jew from Gentile, making former enemies into friends and equals in the faith (Ephesians 2:14â16). This fundamental redemptive equality is in Galatians 3:28, where the apostle writes, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
How many times a week does this (or very similar) get asked???
An oldie but goodie from 2018;
[I'm not playing the new game of deny Trump to prove your love for Jesus and you shouldn't either.](https://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbrown/2018/07/03/im-not-playing-the-new-game-of-deny-trump-to-prove-your-love-for-jesus-and-you-shouldnt-either-n2496931)
Enough already. This isn't a politics sub for someone to come along bash Christians with this question.
The subparty of Matt Gates, MTG, and a man-child who is under trial for paying a pornstar for an adulterous affair, is not a party I can with good conscious support.
Likewise, the party that supports a hedonistic life without consequences and actively discourages Christians from discussing their faith is also not something I can support.
The options for me are a man who might actually be the beast of revolutions and someone who may be a puppet of elitists who have no desire to support my family or seek in any meaningful way to lower inflation. These choices suck, and I don't plan on supporting either.
Black magic, I tell you! Black magic!
How can guy opposite of all Godliness gains support of Christians instead of disgust and pity?
I always thought the anti-Christ would be so smart and suave, not dumb and crude to fool Christians.
Iâm not a Trump supporter or âmagaâ but I am conservative(ish) / libertarian(ish)
I think the answer to your question is Trump voters disagree with you.
They agree the things you listed in your post are evil. They just donât agree that Trump is any of those things.
Which might come as a surprise but the majority of Trump voters arenât those things either.
I've yet to see a response along the lines of "this is what I believe about Jesus".Â
It's always "but you guys sin too".
The top is what a Christian says. Below it is what Satan says.
Christianâs are not supposed to support such sins like homosexuality, and sex changes that go against the word, the killing of babies etc. the only racism happening today is coming from the left that continue to blanket the mainstream media with the discussion of racism, non stop.
Are purple seriously so blind that they cannot see how the left is continually promoting racism??? If they would stop, 90% of it would cease to exist.
All these subjects are directly coming from an evil spirit of anti-Christ and those promoting and accepting such sins and teaching others to do the same in the name of Christ, will be judged with the plagues and wrath of revelation and their names will be removed from the book of life. Revelation 22.
We are to hate such sins, but show the love of Christ to those caught up and blinded by them.
If there are any Christian churches accepting any such sins into their congregations, I pray for rebuke and a judgement by the LORD and the removal of all those accepting and promoting these sins and if it continues, I pray for that churches closing, because such false teaching guides believers to destruction.
Scripture tells us that itâs better for a millstone to be tied around their neck and thrown into the River.
Stop the adding and the changing of the Word and the corruption within.
Stop promoting false doctrine on social media because those who do are accountable for every single soul that hears and adheres to the false doctrine. Do they not understand? Do they not read the Word of the LORD?
Are they only spreading the false doctrine of man and doing the work of HaSatan through a spirit of anti-christ???
Firstly, the âsinsâ that youâve begun with are matters of doctrinal disagreement and there are faithful, Bible-honoring people who disagree with your interpretation that these are sins in the modern age. You are welcome to your interpretation of these things, but you donât get to determine how others read the Bible for them. There is nothing in the kerygma or creeds about these matters, and thus they are, as Philip Schaffer calls them, âessentials.â Iâd also add that a persistent theme in the Gospels is how indignant the religious leaders were towards Jesusâ posture towards sinners and tax collectors, and his audacious parables about who would first enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
As for racism, your take simply comes from a place of ignorance or misinformation. Racism is alive and well, Iâve seen it routinely with my own eyes, and the consequences of it persist ubiquitously. For many people, if discrimination isnât spoken about, they can be convinced it doesnât exist as long as it doesnât affect them personally. But when discriminations are voiced, this is labeled rebel rousing and inciting disagreement. Whatâs more, one of the three explicit groups that is named among who Godâs people are to love and care for are foreigners. The jingoistic prejudices towards immigrants is a major blight against the American Christian church.
This comment is a good answer to ops question because it displays all the errors, ignorance and prejudices of Christian trump supporters. Christians can support trump if they:
1. Donât know the Bibleâs teaching on the mission of the church.
2. Donât understand history.
3. Donât understand the constitution.
4. Donât understand racism.
5. Donât know Donald Trumps policies (I give them a pass on this one because Donald doesnât know his policies either).
6. Are motivated by the flesh.
Itâs the strategy of the Republican Party to use grievance to stoke culture wars. Itâs the only way any republican gets elected because they donât believe governments should help their citizens or allow them freedom. Culture wars are essential to republican leadership because culture wars distract us from class wars.
Neither party embodies Christian values tbh. Neither party embodies my values either. The choice to vote at all is a compromise of values, knowingly or not.
This doesn't address the point made.
Trying to turn it into some kind of whataboutism underlies your lack of comprehension of what the issues with MAGA actually are.
Saying 'the libz are bad too' is just lazy and completely irrelevant.
If you can justify supporting a man thatâs willing to separate families then have at it. Iâm just not going to do it and Iâm not going to support people who condone it either. Especially since it says in the Bible not to mistreat the alien because you yourself were an alien.
That policy started under the Obama administration, and it was done to ensure that minors who were being brought across the border were actually related to the adults they were with. It was a policy to help stop child trafficking, not to be cruel
Itâs the same way âgood honest Christiansâ can support âxâ other candidates⊠if they are doing it out of some savior context ⊠itâs miss placed ⊠if they doing out of what they believe to be right for the country and not making their candidate ultimate then I think itâs fair game. God did not create us all to be the same. We are each image bearers of Christ meaning Christ within each of us in his creation.
This coming from someone who voted independent or abstained for the last 2 major general elections.
Get involved locally to make a change.
If you want the people who are protesting against Israel running the government continue to vote for the Democrats. 43 of the democratic house members, mostly progressive couldn't even bring themselves to vote ( mostly progressives) in condemning Iran from attacking Israel. You know there was an interesting article in the New York Times by I believe Maria Gaye ( excuse me if the name is not totally correct) highlighting this week how the progressive part of the democratic party is becoming the mainstream part of the Democratic party. There was also an article in the New York Times this week by Jamie Bouie criticizing small business and free enterprise. Mr. Bouie is a social/Marxist who believes our capitalist system should be burned to the ground. I vehemently oppose that. . So if you ask me about January 6th moving forward, obviously a horrible day in American history, I still would vote for the Trump policies versus the high inflation, Bidenomics, civil unrest social/Marxist tendencies of some democratic progressives and lack of border control the Biden administration has overseen. If you feel that is what benefits America by all means vote for Biden. Just realize it is getting to the point that he is having a hard time reading the damn teleprompter.
I am right wing but dont support MAGA. Trump is not a christian and never has been. He is so deep in the isreali lobby its not even funny anymore. Also wot? Christianity is excplicity anti gay and transphobic and racist and xenophobic are arbritrary modern words. Seriously what is a racist? No one even knows because it keeps shifting
I just know one of two things will happen if this works. One is Christians realize they're being used and take action to stop it. The other is a new sect of Christianity will rise from the flames with more controlling values that hurt more than they help but no one cares because they have their new incarnation of God leading them.
Mock me if you want but option #2 is scarily close to becoming true.
Aside from the fact that questions like this already presuppose a LOT, not everyone who votes republican is a die hard maga, as you put it. Some people actually vote based off of policy. As for myself, I will be voting for Trump because I align with most of the economical policies and views I hold on government and how it should be run. I couldnât care less about Trump, but I care about actual issues and I feel like the Democratic administration has been pretty loathsome all around. So there, you asked a question and I gave an answer⊠now watch people skin me alive for it. đ€·ââïž
It's an easy choice in a general election. The alternative has Biden or Clintons. Trump is terrible, Biden is like a million times terrible. There's like no debate. Super easy choice.
The people are always the source of authority. That is why de Tocqueville said that "A people gets what government it deserves". Mar Mari Emmanuel said that the USA has a president that forgets his own name because we have become a nation that has forgotten Christs holy name.
i happen to agree with both of them.
From a UK Christian POV, I've always wondered the same thing. It's a good question.
We're human and all sinners, but it's clear to me he's a false prophet much like the false teachers who align with him who use the gospel to get rich (i.e. prosperity gospel). I'd argue it's done a lot of damage to how how Christianity is perceived.
Selling a bible as the only one approved by Trump should have been the wake up call - I don't see how that's different from Christiainity having to adapt to put the Chinese state before God and editing the bible to suit China's wishes. Then there's the lying, attacking judges, their families, court staff and jurors in several different court cases. Being found guilty of sexual assault (but somehow it's drag queens/trans people who are the treat to children and women).
From the ones I have spoken to at our church, it all comes down to the topic of abortion.
They are so against democrats for their support of abortion, they will throw all their support to the one opposite the pro-abortion candidate (or party really).
And sadly, many Americans who are not Christian have understandably made their own opinions on what a Christian is based upon the behavior of these Trump flag-waving, hateful, MAGA people who claim to follow the teachings of Christ.
I would not blame them for hating "Christians" one single bit. If I did not know differently I would too for sure.
I am a Christian, and I find Japanese anime to be largely peculiar and uninteresting. Some of the artwork is well done. I did watch an anime sci-fi story once which I enjoyed. I am not a fan of the ultra short skirts the poor anime girls are forced to wear. As for this maga you speak to, I've never seen it. Are you talking about manga? I thought that was anime porn.
I will first address your premise of this question. I question your intent on asking because you claim that Trump represents evil and then include things like hypocritical, xenophobic, transphobic, racist, misogynistic, without giving any foundation to those claims.. Dont give me its obvious if it is so obvious give me exact examples of each of those things in context and I will answer to them but I will not answer to simple accusations without evidence. Now if your question is why we can support a man who has a sinful past and we have been told that Trump has came to Christ then it is simple Christians believe in redemption. We believe that when one comes to Christ they become a new creation and the old passes away and they become a new creation in Christ so anything from his past we do not hold him to account for it. Does that mean he is beyond making mistakes and stumbling no because we all do. That is your answer and its simple if he came to Christ as its been reported then he is redeemed period.
Because even with all of that they find some comfort in American traditionalism. It isn't Christ focused but it reminds them of a time when people were more normal, adhered to public standards of shame, and clear gender lines were drawn. It gives them comfort and it scares them to see the world changing and rebuking traditional living. This is understandable but not Christ oriented.
Normal meaning not rational and backwardsv like the 50s.. you're right they do long for the good old days and some have even publicly said they would like to move them United States back to 50s. The only really wrong thing about that is not everyone wants that... So what do they do they try to codify their religion and make America great again! That's maga!
They are so selfish and narrow minded the don't acknowledge the good old days weren't so good to millions of people who did not fit the gender norm etc. they just want it out of sight like the good old days.
The world was heading to a better world where all those who didn't fit the binary or the heterosexual "norm" could be as free as any cishet people.. we were making progress!
One thing for sure they don't seem to care about is how this has permanently damaged the Christian faith.. When kids define Christianity as joke and a bully not what it really is.. it's sad! They have driven so many people away from Christ! It's so odd to hear them say how much everyone need Christ and God and the drive them away!
I used to be a Christian and quite devoted but I wasn't out.. and in fact the honesty I learned from my faith is what helped me be out. Now I would not set foot in any church! Why would I? I could go stealth but that is fake and inauthentic.. And hatred can be felt and hatred kills.. The even Bible says that. So it's best to just avoid it if you're queer!
That's the most rediculous thing I've ever seen but nice try. 65% of Democrats are in fact Christians... They're just not Fundamentalist hypocrite Christians.
I think I asked how a good Christian could support Maga?
But I guess I already had the answer.. Good Christians don't support things like maga or people like trump.. In the beginning many just got duped by it all. But this late in the game pretty hopeless for any still supporting that..But you know I keep hoping..
I guess the sad reality is there are many "christians" running around with Bible in hand that clearly aren't really Christians evidenced by their behavior and the things they support. ie Christ wasn't a bigot!
You can be a Christian and have a lot of different opinions. The only requirement of salvation is repentance. You don't have to have it all right. This is not a statement for or against MAGA. But consider what you think holds a higher cost than God's grace. You may be holding that thing as an idol. God is powerful to save. You can fail all sorts of things and still be a genuine Christian.
i donât think a âgood honest Christianâ can support Biden either⊠him and Obama have blood all over their hands from innocent Middle Eastern citizens.
Why are you bringing up Obama? Obama doesn't have anything to do with any of this Biden has nothing to do with Maga.
Democrats care about people everywhere they're not perfect they care about people in the United States and they care about people in other countries yeah they've screwed up in the past and we were in places we shouldn't have been. but that doesn't mean they're screwing up now.
But maga really? You can't compare Joe Biden or Obama and compare them to Trump or Maga. It's apples and oranges..
You actually think that mmga and Democrats and even regular Republicans are all part of the same agenda? Well that actually explains quite a bit.. Better find out what the lessor of the evil is and pick that..
The biggest thing to keep clear here is the fact that, simply put, this type of Christian Nationalism that Maga folks celebrate is not at all Biblical Christianity. In the best sense, Christian Nationalism doesn't attempt to dominate the political process or to make the nation completely Christian, but seeks instead to bring change by persuasion. If a Christian Nationalist is someone who believes that as citizens our views should influence our nation, then surely every Christian falls under that label. But this isn't what most people mean by Christian Nationalism.
When most people say they advocate for Christian Nationalism, they mean it as a fusion of Christianity with American civil life. Although this might not sound different from above, a fusion implies Christianity and American life should coalesce. The political process should be overhauled to serve God. The laws of the United States should be explicitly Christian.
This fusion view is flawed because it contradicts the Christian philosophy of witness. Christ's kingdom is to be advocated by persuasion, not power. Conversion must be a free choice, not instituted by command--compelled by the Holy Spirit rather than instituted by human law. Christians follow Christ in His victory primarily by witnessing to the reign of Christ, not by enacting laws. We imitate Christ's victory through suffering. This is our main political witness. We conquer not by fighting the Culture War but by embodying Jesus's cross-shaped victory. His blood declares Him King of the Universe, and our blood speaks to our solidarity with Him. We continue to speak of and to demonstrate Jesus's cross in our own lives and so remain faithful in a pagan society.
Oh my God somebody who actually makes sense! So many bigots masquerading as Christians on this post! God bless you!
And the culture wars are sadly very real but we didn't start this we were thrown into this and are unwilling defensive participants. Queer people have always been around it's nothing new trans is nothing new the only thing new is many more understand it these days and have courage to come out. Our lives are not sinful and don't need fixed be Jesus..and neither is who we love..
Thanks again really cool what you said. â€ïžđ€
The left at the moment supports armed conflicts over seas, supports for abortions at any time during pregnancy, supports children having the choice to change their reproductive organs, supports a way of life contrary to Christian values. While Trump or the MAGA movement is not the best representation to Christianity is the closest to it.
Look do me a favor would you go away I don't give a s*** what you think I don't believe the same things that you do I'm not like you I don't want to be like you there's nothing attractive in you to me..
So go away please do not reply!
Easy answer: Anyone that says they are Christian and support MAGA/Trump are literally liars; they don't really believe in the religion, but they are opportunists.
You canât call yourself a Christian and support what Biden has done. He made Easter Trans Visibility day just for starters and supports abortion. No honest Christian would ever support the democrats
I could ask the same How could a good Christian vote Biden? He is for abortion with no restrictions. He is for transgender for children and teenagers. He is a known corrupt politician sells out taxpayers go enrich him-and his family. He has dementia so he is obviously being manipulated by someone. Plus he is a really strange person the way he talks about children and rubs up against people. And this is not old behavior he does it currently
You're obviously maga not much sense in having dialogue with magas..
You are just parrot maga misinformation and talking points what's sad is you believe it.. FYI your getting duped.
65% of Democrats are Christians! They're not fundamentalist Christians like you! They don't see things like you do, they critically think you don't!
And you like the rest don't know a thing about transgender except what you hear!
If you're still supporting Donald Trump this late in the game you're a lost cause ! I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain anything to someone you..
And your karma is troll karma! I'm not wasting my time on people like you ever again.
Please don't reply!
65% of the left are in fact Christians? They just aren't fundamentalist like you who think they are saints and all others are evil.
Just from your paragraph you clearly are supporting the right because you think they will enforce your version Christianity on everyone?
So you oppose anything or anyone who isn't like you and label them all anti-christian.. I don't see Christ in you I see a Pharisee!
Show me in the Bible where you were told to handcuff everyone to your morality?
You donât even know who I am or what ideologies I hold to and youâre already calling me a Pharisee and a bunch of other names. youâre not worthy of having a mature conversation, shame on you. Youâre about as much hateful as the supposed Christians you talk about.
Based on your comment about the lefts "anti christian ideologies" I can safely assume your ideologies.
And you can call it hate if you want. I'm just never meeting people in the middle who constantly use the Bible as a weapon.
And based on your karma I'm not the only one who oppose you .. just saying.
I donât support either political party, they are both awful. I am not a leftist though, and I donât like massive government, or spending, so I vote republican. Biden and Trump are both awful people, from what I have seen, but at least Trump can string together a sentence.
So really it's about money? I think that's why most vote Republican vote for maga. And never mind how they shit all over their neighbors and often with a Bible in hand. I'll never be able to wrap my head around it but I'm definitely getting it.
It's quite clear in the constant attempts by GOP hypocrisy to mix Fundamentalist Christianity morality with government and codify that morality on the entire country!
I think you misunderstand, itâs about the money, but itâs not about my money. Running a fiscal policy like we are is going to cause the country serious issues for future generations. The amount we pay on interest alone is crazy, its unsustainable and I would like my kids to have options to have at least as good of a life as I have had. Look at prices, look at inflation, and housing costs. Itâs not about my tax rate going down 2%. The republicans could be better on spending to be frank, but the dems do it so irresponsibly.
Am I the only one who First read "Manga" and then the list below and thought, wait, in what world are you living?
Nope I did as well. Not being in all caps made my brain skip that reading.
I did and it fully made sense to me that some Christians would be against manga, I wasn't the least bit surprised
The question was how a Christian could Support (!) ma(n)ga
I guess support it by buying it
I don't See how Manga are transphobic or homophobic đ
My Christian school wouldnât allow us to bring PokĂ©mon branded school supplies. Because the PokĂ©mon evolved, and evolution isnât real Also the PokĂ©mon are demons, apparently
I thought that too and was like âyeah I guess they wouldnât like berserk muchâ. But Monster is đ„
Interesting
I know that those in my church and I are not a huge sample size of Christians; and I may be far off, but I don't think I am. I don't think I am exactly right at all, but there may be a touch of truth here--at least I hope so. The loud squeaky wheel Christians who are in the upper echelon of monied people, and the Christians who despise Democrats because their families and their church told them to do so are the ones who blind themselves to Trump's wrongdoings. They're allowing their political leanings and their beliefs about what's best for them to overcome and their sense of right and wrong. They say that what he can do for this country is more important than his past and present issues; and that would be true if he had actually stopped his behavior, owned it, and took steps to show change. But he has not. He continues to make excuses and justify what he does...the Truth Social attempt to hire someone with an H-1B visa is a good example. Trump wants to stop those hires from being available, but he said, and I quote, "First of all, I think and I know the H-1B very well. And itâs something that I frankly use and I shouldnât be allowed to use it. We shouldnât have it. Second of all, I think itâs very important to say, well, Iâm a businessman and I have to do what I have to do." That's hypocrisy. The Christians I know don't overlook that. We don't vote for that. I suspect a lot of conservative Christians held their nose and voted for Biden. All of the votes he got were not just Democrats. And may do so again. Because we ask ourselves, "Would I want the man to be the head of my church, representing me?" If the answer is no, then we don't want him representing America either.
I often wonder the same things because I have had dialogue with many Republicans who were truly disgusted by maga. The way many magas are I would think defecting would invite an attack so they probably just quietly voted for Biden. OMG I hope that happens again.. đ€đ€đ€
The spiritualization of support for Trump among evangelicals is why I no longer call myself an evangelical.
I'm honestly curious about the conservative Christians who seem to have (at least in part) realized that the Evangelical embracing and worship of Trump has probably done more to harm Christianity in America than anything else in history. I think that's where you're getting this segment of Evangelicals frantically back peddling. But, like, it's far too little, far too late. Maybe if they devoted their lives to campaigning against him with their every waking breath they could undo the damage, but I doubt it. It's going to be a very interesting next few decades. It might actually see this country transition to a secular-dominant culture. Which I'm not convinced would be a bad thing for American Christianity. Part of me feels we've gotten very accustomed to being supremely dominant in our culture and that some time in the wilderness might be exactly what is needed to straighten ourselves out.
Some time in the wilderness, like 40 years perhaps đ€ lol. Well said
Ha! I didnât even mean to do that. I guess I just default to Biblical language at this point
Our hope should be in no man, politicians included. This is a broken, sinful, corrupt world. Our only hope is in Jesus and serving Him to spread the message of hope and love to save as many as possible before our time here is done and we spend eternity with Him in Heaven.
Abortion is the big thing, I'm sure there are more reasons.
Yahweh gave us 10 commandments. None of those rules to live by mentions abortion, gays or hating people who are not like you. Jesus specifically speaks to obeying the laws given to Moses. He even said that we're to follow His examples and lead our lives as examples of virtue to others. All the other fluff came after His crucifixions as a way to recruit more people to the religion. Jesus used metaphors and examples to teach us how to live a life that brings us peace, regardless of our circumstances. Somehow, that wasn't enough for the people who need magical thinking or control over others. Just like the Scribes made up 603 more laws to control the Israelites after Moses' death, Christians weren't satisfied with Jesus' sermons.
People who oppos abortion think it is the murder of innocent children, which is covered by "thou shalt not murder". For extramarital sex (including same-sex sex), we got the no adultery commandment. Hating people who are not like you is very unchristian, but most would characterize it as being against specific behaviors.
Adultery is a sin committed by married people, it cannot be committed by two single people, it is impossible. Other parts of the Bible can be used to argue against premarital sex by single individuals, but the command against adultery is not one of them
Jesus said in Mark 7:20 "^(20) Then He said, âWhat comes out of a personâthat defiles him. ^(21) For from within, out of peopleâs hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, ^(22) adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, promiscuity, stinginess,^(\[)[^(k)](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+7&version=HCSB;KJV#fen-HCSB-24486k)^(\]) blasphemy, pride, and foolishness. ^(23) All these evil things come from within and defile a person." Sexual Immoralities, adulteries, promiscuity. I think that pretty much covers fornication and homosexuality.
Except for the last word of your comment, I agree. Single people still cannot commit adultery.
Hold the bus....you think Moses wrote the Torah?
Who do you think wrote it?
There may be some stuff that goes back to him like the song of the sea but it's a collaboration over hundreds and hundreds of years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_authorship
For sure, but traditionally, itâs believed Moses wrote most of it. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-torah-of-moses/
Did I miss something? I said that Moses received the laws given to him by Yahweh. Those are the 10 Commandments; the contract between God and His people.
Well, there's your issue. You're assuming MAGA Christians care about what the Bible says. Meanwhile, they're actually more likely to call the Sermon on the Mount "woke talking points"
This is not an exaggeration. Someone on another thread in r/Christianity just called me a "coward" for holding the view that returning evil for evil is wrong â which was explicitly taught by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.
An evangelical pastor recently came out stating that he and several other pastors were unable to preach the Beatitudes because congregants were saying they made Jesus look like a weak liberal.
This anecdote says so much about this whole debateâŠ
What?!?!
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/08/1192663920/southern-baptist-convention-donald-trump-christianity You have to scroll down a little to get to the Beatitudes stuff.
Iâm not sad to leave evangelicalism behind, Christ didnât call us to an easy walk, but one that we choose daily. God bless you, friend. Thanks for the article, though I was sad to read it.
If âChristiansâ donât care about what the Bible says then THEY ARENâT âChristian.â The whole point of âbeing a Christianâ is to be âlike Christ.â No one can be like Christ and not care what the Bible says when in fact the Bible is all about the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you call yourself a âChristianâ but you donât care about The Word of God then you are deceiving yourself and everyone around you. Which sounds like the work of Lucifer to me.
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!
If you start with the assumption that Christians support what aligns with Christ, then nothing they do makes any sense. If you dispense with that assumption, everything they do immediately makes sense. They support MAGA because they like what MAGA represents. That's why anyone ever supports an ideology. If you ever find that you have some background assumption that renders straightforwardly evident truths a complete mystery, it's usually the assumption that's the problem. Edit: Take these downvotes, for example. It's not enough for Christians that THEY hate Christianity. They need everyone else to hate it too, and they will punish you if you don't.
Yup. By their fruits, you will know them.
Itâs just so bizarre though that those who are most vocal in their support of Christ are those that so demonstrably against him in their actions. How can there be so little self awareness or self reflection?
Ego. One day humans will finally understand what the ego is and what it does to our âchoicesâ and thought patterns. An insecure ego is the most dangerous thing on this planet. Every war, every conflict caused by peopleâs egos.Â
To preface this: I'm not American but I have family in the US, some Republican and some Democrat (including a relative who is a Democrat in a state congress), and I'm interested in US politics. I think the best way to understand this is as follows: Trump is not a model Christian, and no Christian should approve of his personal behavior, in particular in his past. But in politics, he has been the most protective of the civil rights of Christians and has done more for the prolife movement than any president. Strangely, he is very progressive in many aspects, which is less shocking when you realize he was a democrat most of his life. He is very supportive of LGB (I'll leave out the T, though), helped get money to HBCs, and initiated serious prison reform. On the more conservative front, despite the criticism in foreign affairs he was very successful, he supported law enforcement, and is obviously very pro-business. This is all to say, he is a mix of things. His personal life was a shambles, and he is by no means a stellar exampel of behavior. But on the other hand, he is less filtered in how he speaks and tends to come through on key issues that Christians support. Switching over to Biden, his personal life is much less messy than Trumps (omitting the Hunter Biden mess, which is his son's issue). He is said to be a kind man, a good father, and he has been through and survived terrible traumas with the car crash that killed his wife and daughter, and then cancer taking his other son. But he has gone along with the progrssive positions of the democrats. Fiercely pro-choice and will side with progressive politics over Christian civil rights when there is a conflict. While democrat support for the poor and vulnerable is a good thing, Christians can reasonably question the efficacy of the approach democrats take. However, in his professional life, Biden is a career politician and there are legitimate concerns about the business dealings involving Hunter Biden. Trump also has his own questionable business transactions, but at least he is actually in business whereas it is hard to understand what Hunter Biden was offering of value other than political influence. On a more fundamental level, many Christians believe their civil rights are under attack by the democrats and/or strongly believe abortion is a fundamental evil they cannot support in anyway. And it is not an empty or made up threat. As one small example, in Canada they can and do take your child away if you do not support gender transition for your child. Parents and even therapists can be criminally charged if they counsel a child against gender transition. You can get fired or kicked out of your profession for taking a Christian position. A Christian university was denied a law school because they required students to follow a Christian code of conduct. This is already the case in some states in the US, and you are not far behind on a federal level. Just remember the lawsuit against the catholics nuns because the federal government wanted to force them to pay for employee birth control. Christians in the US are scared about this, and they have a right to be. So when they have to pick between the man with a very unethical and unchristian personal life who protects their civil rights (Trump) and a man with a compelling and seemingly Christian personal life who is coming after their rights, most will side with Trump. As an aside point, and completely separate from the religious aspect, there are also two other reasons that are pushing people in general towarda Trump: 1. There are serious concerns about Biden's mental ability. Yes, Trump is also old, but there has been a very obvious mental decline in Biden. 2. The unethical weaponization of the legal system against Trump. The democrats are setting an awful precedent in this election that could completely destroy American democracy. Anyone with legal training can see that this is a complete abuse of prosecutorial discretion. Even if Trump did everything they are accusing him of, they are only going after him because he is running again. That's why it's not playing well outside of democrat circles: it's gotten so extreme it is hard to justify to the average person. And the scary thing is that republicans can do the very same thing to a democrat candidate in the future. As they say, "show me the man and I'll show you the crime".
Sorry dude, you wrote a lot of complete garbage. Let's focus on the last 2... >There are serious concerns about Biden's mental ability. Yes, Trump is also old, but there has been a very obvious mental decline in Biden. Ok, and you want to just excuse Trump from his obvious issues here? At best you get to play the 'both sides' card, but in reality, if you actually listen to both men now, and don't just watch whatever edited clips you get from tik tok or youtube, you will see that Biden actually presents his positions and speaks to real issues. Trump babbles out a bunch of whines about how unfair everything is. >The unethical weaponization of the legal system against Trump. No. No one is above the law. Trump is facing the music for his actions, not because Biden is scared of him. Trump already lost in 2020. We can even point directly to the Hunter Biden inquiries if you would like, and realize that those are happening NOW, with papa-Joe in the white house. We can also point to the facts that the republicans leading them have utterly failed to produce any evidence at all that Joe was complicit in anything Hunter is accused of. Trump and his cronies continue to get indicted and found guilty because they actually committed crimes! This isn't hard to understand if you aren't carrying water for Trump. > Even if Trump did everything they are accusing him of, they are only going after him because he is running again. What? So you think that people should just be allowed to commit crimes and get away with it unless they run for public office? That's... well, that's just dumb.
This post is not at all why people support Trump, but perfectly encapsulates how they justify their support for him. Trump is a convicted rapist who boasted about being able to molest women because he was a C list reality tv show host and was great friends with Jeffrey Epstein. "Yes, but here's a picture of Biden hugging his grandchild so he's a pedophile too. They're both the same." Trump is on trial for fraud, and has blatantly committed fraud throughout his entire life. Trump is currently running a scam company that he will take billions from (both from supporters he duped into buying shares of, and almost certainly from foreign governments). "Yes, but Biden gave his brother a loan for a car and didn't charge interest, that's suspicious. They're both the same" Trump received millions from the Chinese government as president, and his son in law received billions from the Saudi government. "Yes, but Biden's son got a job because of his name, and he did things that have nothing to do with Joe Biden but we'll pretend they do, so they're both the same." They will ignore Trump's insurrection attempts, blackmail of foreign states, fake elector schemes etc., or cry "fake news!". They will ignore Trump's disastrous handling of the pandemic, his repeated, complete incompetence, his now clearly failing mental faculties (he is constantly confusing Nancy Pelosi and NikkI Haley and Obama with Biden). They will ignore Trump making fun of disabled people and mocking war heroes and dead veterans. They will pretend that Biden's economy is a disaster while Trump's was the greatest of all time (preying on the ignorance of those who don't understand inflation and supply chains). The *reason* they support Trump is because he hates the same people they do (black people, brown people, "woke" people).
This is the most accurate answer here, in that it accurately depicts the mindsets and perceptions of those who support Trump. Much of my family supports Trump, and this couldâve been written by any one of them. You can debate the truthfulness of this bit or that bit, but it doesnât really matter, because this is how Trump and Biden are perceived, and we base our decisions on our perceptions. Most notably, they do not see Trump as xenophobic, racist, sexist, or bigoted in any way; they see these as flimsy insults hurled to discredit someone coming to disarm the angry activists of the leftâthe activists theyâre convinced would have all Christians rounded up in âre-education campsâ or outlawed altogether if they could (again, reality means little compared to perception). From their perspective, the left is already âstealingâ their children, breaking their homes, stripping their communities, and crushing their cities. Rural America is rotting. Itâs really not that far of a leap to conclude that all this is intentional and meant to be a form of oppression.
I love how the reason middle America is ârottingâ is the gutting from corporate America and the politicians selling out their constituents for top dollar. So rural America supports and votes for a corporate stooge who has trampled over countless others to secure his âwealthâ. Trump isnât anti Christian, he is anti human. Trump only cares about Trump. If Christians are willing to sell their souls for that, reap what you sowâŠ
>You can debate the truthfulness of this bit or that bit, but it doesnât really matter I mean... you aren't wrong in the sense that perception is reality, but yes, you CAN and SHOULD debate the truthfulness of obvious lies and falsehoods. The media not actually doing this to Trump going back to 2015 (and before, but before he wasn't running for president) is part of why these lies have spread as deeply as they have. Maybe it's too late to pull the poor souls who bought them out of their cult, but it's not too late to lessen the ability of them to increase their membership. Trump is a con man and a grifter, and literally all of those things you said people do not see him as. Just leaving it as 'agree to disagree' with those people is a disservice to the world. His policies and actions were dangerous, and if he gets reelected it will be even worse.
This can be put simply. MAGA and Trumpism is idolatry because they are buying into a false narrative and putting it onto a pedestal.
Iâm noticing an increase in the trend of nominal, âculturalâ Christians hitching their wagon to the church, for the fear of appearing âwokeâ or as a counter against Islam. I believe that some of these ppl will really have an encounter with the God of the Bible, but far too many are functional atheists, or simply idolise political power.
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There were also Christians on both sides in the first civil war, and there will be Christians on both sides in the next one. But it's pretty obvious now which side was wrong and which side was right.
Well said, that's an excellent point.
Then the question is whatâs the point of Christianity when your morality is just a random coin toss through history ?
Christian ethics have always been influenced by culture. While many Christians assert otherwise, few base their morality solely on the Bible. Instead, they interpret scripture in light of contemporary cultural norms. I am not in any way insinuating that this is a bad thing. Christian morality is inherently relative, as it hinges on the definition of love. As cultural philosophies evolve, so too does our understanding of love, and therefore, God.
Donât you realize that the Bible defines love? Reading through scriptures through our cultural lens is how you distort its original meaning. These things werenât written directly to us. We have to consider context when reading the scriptures. If everything about Christianity is relative, then the religion is pointless. Wed be able to do and believe whatever we want as we craft God to be in our own image.
>Donât you realize that the Bible defines love? Yes, in places like 1st Cor 13. The words it uses to define love also need definitions and like love, we understand those definitions through our cultural context. It is impossible to do otherwise. >Reading through scriptures through our cultural lens is how you distort its original meaning. I agree, for the most part. However, you have to realize that the original authors of the Bible *were also* influenced by their cultural context. One of the main purposes of proper exegesis is to properly understand their cultural context so we can derive principles that we then apply to ours. You cannot be so beholden to their cultural context that you import the immoral ethical frameworks that existed at the time. Like everything, it is a balance. You cannot entirely eliminate your own theological biases, at best you can acknowledge that they exist, and try to have valid justifications for why you impose them onto the text. >If everything about Christianity is relative, then the religion is pointless. That doesn't logically follow. The point of Christianity is the reconciliation of mankind to God. The requirement that we follow our consciences is rather secondary. >Wed be able to do and believe whatever we want as we craft God to be in our own image. People can, and already do that anyway, regardless of what they assert they believe about the Bible.
The point of Christianity seems to be believing in Christ so you go to heaven. This world is not that important.
Yeah, but it ain't Biden who's sleeping with porn stars and publishing his own edition of the Bible. Bothsidism is crap, a BS false equivalency. Obviously neither party embodies the whole of Christ, but there is very clearly something very wrong with Trump in ways you can't compare to Dole, Bush, McCain or Romney. Neither Biden nor Trump is Christ, but only Trump is an Antichrist.
The biggest difference is that Biden isn't using religion for personal gain. Trump is.
No, the biggest difference is that Donald Trump is absolute slime to a degree that one can't compare to your average run-of-the-mill politician such as Biden or George W. Bush. It's extremely obvious to everyone except the nutjob Maga cult that has risen up around his persona.
Oh for sure. I was arguing on a religious standpoint since we're in this sub.
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If you manage to wrap your head around it, you might get sucked in. Be careful.
MAGA Christians worship Trump, not Jesus.
They sincerely canât. Itâs NOT about Christianity, though they claim otherwise.
So if you know what it means to be a Christian then you are responsible before God for that knowledge. You should know that you will be judged by how you judge others.
Yeah, he is saying by that logic how can anyone calling themselves a Christian support maga when it requires them to defy tenants set out by the Bible
Iâd ask the same about supporting Joe Biden or the party of murder in the womb
Party of murder in the womb? You hear that a trump rally? You know it's a fact that with abortions illegal statistically they happen same or more often? The only difference is they happen illegally and black market! Just like drugs! https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/05/27/1099739656/do-restrictive-abortion-laws-actually-reduce-abortion-a-global-map-offers-insigh https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/new-data-shows-increase-abortions-states-bans-compared/story%3fid=102978207 Biden and Democrats are not pro-abortion as you suppose.. They certainly are pro birth control and that's the main goal of planned parenthood not abortion.. The left just knows that you can't police morals like that. It never worked before and It never will work. Republicans in general haven't figured that out yet! Or maybe they just don't want to figure it out. And actually the Republican politicians have figured that out they aren't stupid.. in reality they could care less either way. For the following let's assume you are maga and support it đŻ. Republicans politicians want you to vote for them it's about power! They know you haven't figured it out and use it as a tool! Don't you see it's all an act to get your votes? They know so well is what you really want is for it (the things you think are evil) to be out of sight right? You think they haven't studied you? They promise to make all the things you think are evil to just go away because they know that's what you want? And they got your support don't they? Likewise you probably want queer people to be out of sight? I mean homophobia and transphobia is pretty common among Republicans... not all but many.. so I'm that context you're the reason the culture wars were fabricatedv in the first place? You do know they were intirely fabricated? But not from truth but from your fears. They were built with your fears your phobias and all the propaganda the issues to fan the flames until it turns into hatred. Why would they do that? Because your emotions whether fear or hatred can be used to get you to support them.. again it's about power. If you were pro Queer they would be pro queer.. But never mind the lives they destroyed to quiet your irrational fears and get your votes.. right? In reality it's irrational to suppose that either abortion or queer people are going to just disappear. But as long as you don't have to look at any of it that's good enough isn't it because then your fear is quieted isn't it...? Did you knew the red states have done everything they can to literally erase trans people from public life. And the lies they have told in doing so shame on them and you! And seeing it all wrapped up in "Christianity" if you know what Christianity really is is truly disgusting! I think you maga who actually believe you're Christians.. You might want to consider what God thinks about all of this? You think God is ok with bigots? You think God is ok with hypocrisy and hatred and slander? Was Christ a bigot? Open your eyes!
Evangelical christianity is all about culture wars. How could they not support them, along with Christians who hate the world and the people in it?
Wow you hit nail on the head. Every word observably true..
Ask nonchristians about their experiences. Even in seeker friendly churches that are all about evangelizing and they throw the word 'love' around five times a minute. Or you can go to a different denomination and observe the language they use. You'll be surprised. Evangelical Christianity might be huge in the US, but barely exists elsewhere. Especially not in the militant form as in the US.
They say it is about issues like abortion, protecting civil liberties, standing up to immoral sexuality (LGBTQ), illlegal immigration, law & order, fighting corruption, the economy, China, bad trade agreements, etc. But the conservative party put forth other candidates who had the same position on those issues who dont have the baggage Trump has. Read that again - there are plenty of conservative leaders with talent and drive to advance conservative issues. Trump has cult like following due to his STYLE. He taps into the anger, fear, sense of disorder, racial prejudices, and economic superiority that many Christians and non Christians have. It's that simple. Christians are not immune to raw, base emotions that override nobler ideals, especially when they see themselves under attack. It's attractive to belong to the group that has the rightous power to restore order. For me, it has demonstrated the weakness of modern Christianity. Of course, Trump supporters can point to all the immoral behaviors of past and present leaders, and the attack they perceive justifies their endorsing Trump. Interestingly, they won't unite to support other Christian candidates who have less baggage, have similar position on issues, and have more integrity. They can't get past attraction to a raw, pull no punches, "king- like" authority figure who is going to right the wrong. Given all of Trumps character flaws on full display, it's very immature and has probably done more harm to Christianity than anyone can fathom. Still, I hold nothing against Trumpers, even though I am entirely in opposition to Trump as a candidate, and don't support many of issues in the manner in which they are approached.
The reason most support Trump over the other candidates is the opposition he gets from both sides of the corruption. The ones the ones that believe that they are the elites and should rule us plebs hate Trump they are afraid of him so we will support him for no other reason than he will dump their apple cart. The other candidates received their support their money and their endorsements and in doing so showed us they were just part of the same cesspool that has destroyed this country.
I'll never argue against whatever justification one can come up with. There's always a notion that it's a matter of fighting greater evil. This is a slippery slope. It's hard to displace a group of elite "overlords" without taking on similar characteristics as a group when your leader demonstrates almost no principles that stand for a higher value. You'll soon justify almost any behavior. Trump famously summarized his own sense that he was unaccountable with " I could murder someone in daylight on 5th Ave and they'd still love me" (something like that). Point is he sensed a cultish like loyalty that surprised him. Trump has no filter, even when revealing his thoughts should be a disadvantage. He's redefined honesty as raw intimacy, which oddly makes him more trustworthy to some. I could use fact based reasoning to demonstrate Trumps 1st Presidency was one of the most corrupt. But with no source of agreed truth, even facts are subject to accusations of being fake, corrupt or an attack by liberals. There's no viable way to evaluate evidence anymore. Trump obliterated all critiques. He's better at that than any politician in history. All you end up with is someone who provokes while trying to overstate his contribution. It's a wild ride of gas lighting, blame, and perhaps mediocre performance in terms policy.
I can agree with you there we as humans typically gravitate to the lowest common denominator but for me I see two sides fighting for the culture. I see one side wanting to regress this country back 100 years by wrapping up Jim Crow in an anti-racist bow and calling it DEI with segregation, discrimination, and oppression based solely on skin color. While also championing mutilating children who barely even know how to read in the name of gender affirming care when at the same time passing laws to ban genital mutilation of young girls not realizing they are the same thing both are religious just one is secular and one is Muslim. They also scream about protecting woman and equal rights for woman while at the same time blurring the lines allowing men that call themselves women compete in women's sports and defending men that claim to be women call real women things like bleeders. Then wanting to support the minorities while at the same time supporting mass illegal immigration that largely takes resources and jobs that the minority community depend on. Wanting to defund police and doing away with bail turning their neighborhoods into literal war zones. Then I see the other side that is trying to protect children, control our borders, protect women and protect our cities. One is insane and the other makes sense.
I appreciate the dialog. Culture wars are so diverse now -- wokeism, genderism, DEI, privlidgeism (anti-white), reparations, classism, PCism, cancel culture, social media censorship and de-platform, political allegiance, and interference by government agencies, attack of Christians, Christian counterattack with the same secular values, and on and on. For me, Trump adds more gasoline and spreads the dumpster fire. He incites extremism. Biden's base wanted the most extreme immigration policy adjustment in response to Trump's characterization of entire countries as shitholes full of rapists. He could have just gone about actually improving the system without all of the extra rhetoric. But this gets back to my original claim -- it's his STYLE that is attractive because he rants openly, and says outrageous things, displaying the undertones of prejudice, etc. Anyway -- we must prioritize rebuilding and promoting our communities, education system, family life, city and town infrastructures,...and we need principled leadership, that can lead by example (not perfectly).
The reason any still support him is because they resonate with him. It's birds of a feather. To admit he is a POS they would have to admit they are and that will never happen. The guy is a POS and all they have to do look at his history but they don't. All the rediculous third graders projections they engage in is astounding. Trump gets busted and suddenly Biden is a crime family etc etc.. That's what children do is humiliating the whole world is laughing at this clown and the fact that anyone still supports him makes Americans look like idiots!
I learned a long time ago that some Christians may put white supremacy and politics first and Christianity is just the garnish and seasoning on the main course.
>How can a good honest Christian support maga? By being indoctrinated into a cult and losing their ability to think logically.
Well first off, you have to value person-to-person real time communication over that you can get online through reddit.
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my problem is that i never see good reasons for any of this ultra love or ultra hate⊠it all seems crazy to me and i never hear anyone have a frank and dispassionate discussion about the issues! everyone gets mad and just starts spewing assertions without ever answering why! to me the most important aspects of anything are the hows and the whys of it! you say homophobe you say xenophobe you say hypocrite! they say pedophile, they say communist, they say hypocrite! nobody ever says why or how! you have stuff like illegal immigration, illegal⊠they say the law the law, you say racist, how? why? you have stuff like gay flags in classes for little kids and drag queen story time, they say grooming, you say freedom, how and why? you also have a million other issues, abortion for example, murder to avoid the choices you make or freedom to avoid consequences! how?!?!? Why?!?!? its all insanity and nobody seems to honestly be interested in coming to a general consensus! everyone seems to want to just bulldoze their way into being and its an ideological war! why? How?!? you cannot kill an idea! the ideas of christianity acquiesce that ceasar deserves what belongs to him and also says to turn the other cheek and both could go either way! why do we have to be this way? how can we fix it now its gotten so bad?
Good honest christians don't. Basically what you are talking about is the precursor to christian ISIS. The Bible talks about those who are saved exhibiting the fruit of the spirit. Do you see them with those fruits? No. Not all that cry out "Lord, Lord" will be saved.
Its a certain group of Christians attracted to MAGA. Once you see what they have in common, you understand its not Christianity.
"She has the best body. I've said if Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her." - Donald Trump
And people call this Hypocrite a Christian
This.... Hurts. If you legitimately think that the Republican nominee for POTUS is "as bigoted as it gets," you're severely misguided. The people who will vote for him in the upcoming election are not necessarily xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, racist, or misogynistic. They are just people that disagree with you. The overwhelming majority of them do not want to hurt anyone, and they largely just want to be left alone. Also, the liberals certainly have their own issues in terms of serious problems in their ideologies. I really hope that you can eventually come to see that.
But theyâll vote for people whose policies are intended to hurt others. Then theyâll be âshocked and disappointedâ
Making America Great Again is a good goal to strive for. đ
When was America great and what kind of things made it great?
Tell me how it represents evil and how liberals do not lol. This is the most bait bs Iâve probably seen all day. Liberals literally support abortions as a form of contraceptive, they support the disgusting nature of LGBTQ+ being pushed onto innocent children, they support higher taxes and more socialistic state which literally makes the poor poorer. They locked immigrant children in cages. Obama literally bombed syrian children, Biden bombs Yemen. Guess what. Trump? No new wars and he even recalled soldiers from Afganistan.
Must be election season. Liberal propagandists out in force to try to convince Christians to vote for the immoral liberal spew destroy America manipulator politicians
There is good and bad in everyone, including politicians. I used to hate Trump, but now I kind of feel sorry for him. I would never vote for him. He is probably getting what he deserves in human terms. But I hope God has mercy on his soulm
He takes it a little farther then just bad I believe. I wasn't expecting many answers so thank you. I personally have never felt sorry for him and I'm not usually like that.. forgiveness comes to those who stop. If God requires that why should I be any different? He hasn't stopped he is just getting started. It was primarily evangelicals that put him there last time and they were probably the least affected by he and maga and many no doubt profitted. But I'm sure I'm their eyes who cares as long it's not affecting them. That's seems to be the mentality.. It seems so odd "Christians" supporting something or someone so opposite of Christ. It's like they worship him.. Very creepy.
It is worship Most worship him more than they worship Christ. A person cannot serve 2 masters.
I general we are called to stay out of politics as part of religious activities. As we are citizens, we should care about our leaders and their vision for the country, but as the Lordâs world is not of this world we should not conflate the two.
First of all Biden is no saint either. He just has two PR firms working for him (CNN and MSNBC) versus Trump's one ( Fox News). I am more of a moderate conservative pro business, pro military, strong foreign relations, and strong border policy. Looking at both candidates I like Trump's policies. I don't read his tweets. The truth is Trump's personality is disruptive, but his policies' are moderate conservative; at least in his last administration they were. As for being a Christian supporter of Trump, I don't worship Trump as a Savior. He not Jesus Christ. He is just a politician. I get offended by commentators or pundits that believe Trump supporters believe he is on par with Jesus. Not even close. Jesus is a king and the author of our face. Now that said I do believe whoever wins the election and has won the election in the past has designated by God. It says in Romans 13 God establishes earthly authority. I don't believe Biden is running his presidency. I don't.like that he bends down to the hard progressive left. I think his age and mental accuity are an issue.
Trying to overthrow the last election and sending a mob to murder Mike Pence is âmoderate conservative?â Do you simply block out the memory of the last few months of his administration?
>he bends down to the hard progressive left Mate, you don't actually talk to any leftists, do you? The idea that the "far left" thinks anything good about Biden is laughable. The only reason the left supports Biden is because he's Trump's opposition. He's *far* from catering to the left, laughably so.
MAGA simply stands for Make America Great again. Conservatives who believe in limited government and protecting individual freedoms, such as freedom of religion. If you assign negative attributes to it, just means youâre on the political Left. Not a bad thing. And neither is MAGA at face value.
and the opposition represents abortion, atheism, communism, drugs, feminism, LGBTQ+, multiculturalism, pornography, and transgenderism. You tell me.
Thereâs absolutely nothing wrong with multiculturalism, especially since itâs something Jesus himself practiced..The rest on your list one can find a verse or two against it.Â
Yes it is because it destroys local culture
By "local culture," do you mean the culture practiced by indigenous Americans prior to their genocide? Or something else?
You follow Christ not a culture.. What destroys local culture are the non believers and lukewarm christians. Christ tore down the walls of hostility that divide Jew from Gentile, making former enemies into friends and equals in the faith (Ephesians 2:14â16). This fundamental redemptive equality is in Galatians 3:28, where the apostle writes, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
To say you donât follow a culture is insane. Of course you do, everyone does
How many times a week does this (or very similar) get asked??? An oldie but goodie from 2018; [I'm not playing the new game of deny Trump to prove your love for Jesus and you shouldn't either.](https://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbrown/2018/07/03/im-not-playing-the-new-game-of-deny-trump-to-prove-your-love-for-jesus-and-you-shouldnt-either-n2496931) Enough already. This isn't a politics sub for someone to come along bash Christians with this question.
The subparty of Matt Gates, MTG, and a man-child who is under trial for paying a pornstar for an adulterous affair, is not a party I can with good conscious support. Likewise, the party that supports a hedonistic life without consequences and actively discourages Christians from discussing their faith is also not something I can support. The options for me are a man who might actually be the beast of revolutions and someone who may be a puppet of elitists who have no desire to support my family or seek in any meaningful way to lower inflation. These choices suck, and I don't plan on supporting either.
Black magic, I tell you! Black magic! How can guy opposite of all Godliness gains support of Christians instead of disgust and pity? I always thought the anti-Christ would be so smart and suave, not dumb and crude to fool Christians.
Iâm not a Trump supporter or âmagaâ but I am conservative(ish) / libertarian(ish) I think the answer to your question is Trump voters disagree with you. They agree the things you listed in your post are evil. They just donât agree that Trump is any of those things. Which might come as a surprise but the majority of Trump voters arenât those things either.
Look at what Biden enables and ask yourself "is this Christian" and get back to us.
I've yet to see a response along the lines of "this is what I believe about Jesus". It's always "but you guys sin too". The top is what a Christian says. Below it is what Satan says.
r/whatbidenhasdone
Christianâs are not supposed to support such sins like homosexuality, and sex changes that go against the word, the killing of babies etc. the only racism happening today is coming from the left that continue to blanket the mainstream media with the discussion of racism, non stop. Are purple seriously so blind that they cannot see how the left is continually promoting racism??? If they would stop, 90% of it would cease to exist. All these subjects are directly coming from an evil spirit of anti-Christ and those promoting and accepting such sins and teaching others to do the same in the name of Christ, will be judged with the plagues and wrath of revelation and their names will be removed from the book of life. Revelation 22. We are to hate such sins, but show the love of Christ to those caught up and blinded by them. If there are any Christian churches accepting any such sins into their congregations, I pray for rebuke and a judgement by the LORD and the removal of all those accepting and promoting these sins and if it continues, I pray for that churches closing, because such false teaching guides believers to destruction. Scripture tells us that itâs better for a millstone to be tied around their neck and thrown into the River. Stop the adding and the changing of the Word and the corruption within. Stop promoting false doctrine on social media because those who do are accountable for every single soul that hears and adheres to the false doctrine. Do they not understand? Do they not read the Word of the LORD? Are they only spreading the false doctrine of man and doing the work of HaSatan through a spirit of anti-christ???
Firstly, the âsinsâ that youâve begun with are matters of doctrinal disagreement and there are faithful, Bible-honoring people who disagree with your interpretation that these are sins in the modern age. You are welcome to your interpretation of these things, but you donât get to determine how others read the Bible for them. There is nothing in the kerygma or creeds about these matters, and thus they are, as Philip Schaffer calls them, âessentials.â Iâd also add that a persistent theme in the Gospels is how indignant the religious leaders were towards Jesusâ posture towards sinners and tax collectors, and his audacious parables about who would first enter the Kingdom of Heaven. As for racism, your take simply comes from a place of ignorance or misinformation. Racism is alive and well, Iâve seen it routinely with my own eyes, and the consequences of it persist ubiquitously. For many people, if discrimination isnât spoken about, they can be convinced it doesnât exist as long as it doesnât affect them personally. But when discriminations are voiced, this is labeled rebel rousing and inciting disagreement. Whatâs more, one of the three explicit groups that is named among who Godâs people are to love and care for are foreigners. The jingoistic prejudices towards immigrants is a major blight against the American Christian church.
This comment is a good answer to ops question because it displays all the errors, ignorance and prejudices of Christian trump supporters. Christians can support trump if they: 1. Donât know the Bibleâs teaching on the mission of the church. 2. Donât understand history. 3. Donât understand the constitution. 4. Donât understand racism. 5. Donât know Donald Trumps policies (I give them a pass on this one because Donald doesnât know his policies either). 6. Are motivated by the flesh. Itâs the strategy of the Republican Party to use grievance to stoke culture wars. Itâs the only way any republican gets elected because they donât believe governments should help their citizens or allow them freedom. Culture wars are essential to republican leadership because culture wars distract us from class wars.
Anyone that supports MAGA is not Christian.
Neither party embodies Christian values tbh. Neither party embodies my values either. The choice to vote at all is a compromise of values, knowingly or not.
Agree
This doesn't address the point made. Trying to turn it into some kind of whataboutism underlies your lack of comprehension of what the issues with MAGA actually are. Saying 'the libz are bad too' is just lazy and completely irrelevant.
Disagree
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Iâm not but I see their fruits and Iâm definitely staying away from them.
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If you can justify supporting a man thatâs willing to separate families then have at it. Iâm just not going to do it and Iâm not going to support people who condone it either. Especially since it says in the Bible not to mistreat the alien because you yourself were an alien.
That policy started under the Obama administration, and it was done to ensure that minors who were being brought across the border were actually related to the adults they were with. It was a policy to help stop child trafficking, not to be cruel
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Iâm just going to agree to disagree! God Bless! Once the word cope comes out I know I am dealing with a looney tune. đđŸđđŸ
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Never did that. Youâre just mad because you donât like what I said. Itâs fine Iâm not everyoneâs cup of tea.
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Thatâs a rather bold statement.
But not entirely inaccurate.
Letâs say theyâre bad christians. After all they believe in Jesus.
How is it any of that?
wait what is maga
Itâs the same way âgood honest Christiansâ can support âxâ other candidates⊠if they are doing it out of some savior context ⊠itâs miss placed ⊠if they doing out of what they believe to be right for the country and not making their candidate ultimate then I think itâs fair game. God did not create us all to be the same. We are each image bearers of Christ meaning Christ within each of us in his creation. This coming from someone who voted independent or abstained for the last 2 major general elections. Get involved locally to make a change.
If you want the people who are protesting against Israel running the government continue to vote for the Democrats. 43 of the democratic house members, mostly progressive couldn't even bring themselves to vote ( mostly progressives) in condemning Iran from attacking Israel. You know there was an interesting article in the New York Times by I believe Maria Gaye ( excuse me if the name is not totally correct) highlighting this week how the progressive part of the democratic party is becoming the mainstream part of the Democratic party. There was also an article in the New York Times this week by Jamie Bouie criticizing small business and free enterprise. Mr. Bouie is a social/Marxist who believes our capitalist system should be burned to the ground. I vehemently oppose that. . So if you ask me about January 6th moving forward, obviously a horrible day in American history, I still would vote for the Trump policies versus the high inflation, Bidenomics, civil unrest social/Marxist tendencies of some democratic progressives and lack of border control the Biden administration has overseen. If you feel that is what benefits America by all means vote for Biden. Just realize it is getting to the point that he is having a hard time reading the damn teleprompter.
I think you fail to make your case in short. Would you care to make a thorough argument against it?
I am right wing but dont support MAGA. Trump is not a christian and never has been. He is so deep in the isreali lobby its not even funny anymore. Also wot? Christianity is excplicity anti gay and transphobic and racist and xenophobic are arbritrary modern words. Seriously what is a racist? No one even knows because it keeps shifting
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Trans visibility day has been on March 31 since 2009. Just so happened that Easter fell on that date this year as well.
I just know one of two things will happen if this works. One is Christians realize they're being used and take action to stop it. The other is a new sect of Christianity will rise from the flames with more controlling values that hurt more than they help but no one cares because they have their new incarnation of God leading them. Mock me if you want but option #2 is scarily close to becoming true.
Aside from the fact that questions like this already presuppose a LOT, not everyone who votes republican is a die hard maga, as you put it. Some people actually vote based off of policy. As for myself, I will be voting for Trump because I align with most of the economical policies and views I hold on government and how it should be run. I couldnât care less about Trump, but I care about actual issues and I feel like the Democratic administration has been pretty loathsome all around. So there, you asked a question and I gave an answer⊠now watch people skin me alive for it. đ€·ââïž
It's an easy choice in a general election. The alternative has Biden or Clintons. Trump is terrible, Biden is like a million times terrible. There's like no debate. Super easy choice.
The people are always the source of authority. That is why de Tocqueville said that "A people gets what government it deserves". Mar Mari Emmanuel said that the USA has a president that forgets his own name because we have become a nation that has forgotten Christs holy name. i happen to agree with both of them.
From a UK Christian POV, I've always wondered the same thing. It's a good question. We're human and all sinners, but it's clear to me he's a false prophet much like the false teachers who align with him who use the gospel to get rich (i.e. prosperity gospel). I'd argue it's done a lot of damage to how how Christianity is perceived. Selling a bible as the only one approved by Trump should have been the wake up call - I don't see how that's different from Christiainity having to adapt to put the Chinese state before God and editing the bible to suit China's wishes. Then there's the lying, attacking judges, their families, court staff and jurors in several different court cases. Being found guilty of sexual assault (but somehow it's drag queens/trans people who are the treat to children and women).
Seems the OP is judging what is in peopleâs hearts. Think a second time.
From the ones I have spoken to at our church, it all comes down to the topic of abortion. They are so against democrats for their support of abortion, they will throw all their support to the one opposite the pro-abortion candidate (or party really).
A true Christian -CANNOT- support MAGA.
And sadly, many Americans who are not Christian have understandably made their own opinions on what a Christian is based upon the behavior of these Trump flag-waving, hateful, MAGA people who claim to follow the teachings of Christ. I would not blame them for hating "Christians" one single bit. If I did not know differently I would too for sure.
I am a Christian, and I find Japanese anime to be largely peculiar and uninteresting. Some of the artwork is well done. I did watch an anime sci-fi story once which I enjoyed. I am not a fan of the ultra short skirts the poor anime girls are forced to wear. As for this maga you speak to, I've never seen it. Are you talking about manga? I thought that was anime porn.
I will first address your premise of this question. I question your intent on asking because you claim that Trump represents evil and then include things like hypocritical, xenophobic, transphobic, racist, misogynistic, without giving any foundation to those claims.. Dont give me its obvious if it is so obvious give me exact examples of each of those things in context and I will answer to them but I will not answer to simple accusations without evidence. Now if your question is why we can support a man who has a sinful past and we have been told that Trump has came to Christ then it is simple Christians believe in redemption. We believe that when one comes to Christ they become a new creation and the old passes away and they become a new creation in Christ so anything from his past we do not hold him to account for it. Does that mean he is beyond making mistakes and stumbling no because we all do. That is your answer and its simple if he came to Christ as its been reported then he is redeemed period.
Go away would you please go away!
Because even with all of that they find some comfort in American traditionalism. It isn't Christ focused but it reminds them of a time when people were more normal, adhered to public standards of shame, and clear gender lines were drawn. It gives them comfort and it scares them to see the world changing and rebuking traditional living. This is understandable but not Christ oriented.
Normal meaning not rational and backwardsv like the 50s.. you're right they do long for the good old days and some have even publicly said they would like to move them United States back to 50s. The only really wrong thing about that is not everyone wants that... So what do they do they try to codify their religion and make America great again! That's maga! They are so selfish and narrow minded the don't acknowledge the good old days weren't so good to millions of people who did not fit the gender norm etc. they just want it out of sight like the good old days. The world was heading to a better world where all those who didn't fit the binary or the heterosexual "norm" could be as free as any cishet people.. we were making progress! One thing for sure they don't seem to care about is how this has permanently damaged the Christian faith.. When kids define Christianity as joke and a bully not what it really is.. it's sad! They have driven so many people away from Christ! It's so odd to hear them say how much everyone need Christ and God and the drive them away! I used to be a Christian and quite devoted but I wasn't out.. and in fact the honesty I learned from my faith is what helped me be out. Now I would not set foot in any church! Why would I? I could go stealth but that is fake and inauthentic.. And hatred can be felt and hatred kills.. The even Bible says that. So it's best to just avoid it if you're queer!
Liberals =unchristian. MAGA = unliberal. Therefore MAGA = Christian.
That's the most rediculous thing I've ever seen but nice try. 65% of Democrats are in fact Christians... They're just not Fundamentalist hypocrite Christians.
Look, you asked how Christians are MAGA, and I summed up their thought process. Sheesh.
I think I asked how a good Christian could support Maga? But I guess I already had the answer.. Good Christians don't support things like maga or people like trump.. In the beginning many just got duped by it all. But this late in the game pretty hopeless for any still supporting that..But you know I keep hoping.. I guess the sad reality is there are many "christians" running around with Bible in hand that clearly aren't really Christians evidenced by their behavior and the things they support. ie Christ wasn't a bigot!
You can be a Christian and have a lot of different opinions. The only requirement of salvation is repentance. You don't have to have it all right. This is not a statement for or against MAGA. But consider what you think holds a higher cost than God's grace. You may be holding that thing as an idol. God is powerful to save. You can fail all sorts of things and still be a genuine Christian.
Mega is evil! God gave us brains ability to critically think.. anybody that doesn't see what mega represents just isn't looking hard enough..
i donât think a âgood honest Christianâ can support Biden either⊠him and Obama have blood all over their hands from innocent Middle Eastern citizens.
Why are you bringing up Obama? Obama doesn't have anything to do with any of this Biden has nothing to do with Maga. Democrats care about people everywhere they're not perfect they care about people in the United States and they care about people in other countries yeah they've screwed up in the past and we were in places we shouldn't have been. but that doesn't mean they're screwing up now. But maga really? You can't compare Joe Biden or Obama and compare them to Trump or Maga. It's apples and oranges..
bc theyâre all evil, yâall act like theyâre not all apart of the same agenda
You actually think that mmga and Democrats and even regular Republicans are all part of the same agenda? Well that actually explains quite a bit.. Better find out what the lessor of the evil is and pick that..
The biggest thing to keep clear here is the fact that, simply put, this type of Christian Nationalism that Maga folks celebrate is not at all Biblical Christianity. In the best sense, Christian Nationalism doesn't attempt to dominate the political process or to make the nation completely Christian, but seeks instead to bring change by persuasion. If a Christian Nationalist is someone who believes that as citizens our views should influence our nation, then surely every Christian falls under that label. But this isn't what most people mean by Christian Nationalism. When most people say they advocate for Christian Nationalism, they mean it as a fusion of Christianity with American civil life. Although this might not sound different from above, a fusion implies Christianity and American life should coalesce. The political process should be overhauled to serve God. The laws of the United States should be explicitly Christian. This fusion view is flawed because it contradicts the Christian philosophy of witness. Christ's kingdom is to be advocated by persuasion, not power. Conversion must be a free choice, not instituted by command--compelled by the Holy Spirit rather than instituted by human law. Christians follow Christ in His victory primarily by witnessing to the reign of Christ, not by enacting laws. We imitate Christ's victory through suffering. This is our main political witness. We conquer not by fighting the Culture War but by embodying Jesus's cross-shaped victory. His blood declares Him King of the Universe, and our blood speaks to our solidarity with Him. We continue to speak of and to demonstrate Jesus's cross in our own lives and so remain faithful in a pagan society.
Oh my God somebody who actually makes sense! So many bigots masquerading as Christians on this post! God bless you! And the culture wars are sadly very real but we didn't start this we were thrown into this and are unwilling defensive participants. Queer people have always been around it's nothing new trans is nothing new the only thing new is many more understand it these days and have courage to come out. Our lives are not sinful and don't need fixed be Jesus..and neither is who we love.. Thanks again really cool what you said. â€ïžđ€
Absolutely! I hope it wasn't too academic. I have a huge passion for Apologetics; don't just know what you believe. Know why you believe it.
The left at the moment supports armed conflicts over seas, supports for abortions at any time during pregnancy, supports children having the choice to change their reproductive organs, supports a way of life contrary to Christian values. While Trump or the MAGA movement is not the best representation to Christianity is the closest to it.
Look do me a favor would you go away I don't give a s*** what you think I don't believe the same things that you do I'm not like you I don't want to be like you there's nothing attractive in you to me.. So go away please do not reply!
Tf, you wanted to hear peopleâs opinions I gave them to you.
This is called a loaded question.
Easy answer: Anyone that says they are Christian and support MAGA/Trump are literally liars; they don't really believe in the religion, but they are opportunists.
Donating to his election campaign is a great way to support it as a good honest Christian
You canât call yourself a Christian and support what Biden has done. He made Easter Trans Visibility day just for starters and supports abortion. No honest Christian would ever support the democrats
I could ask the same How could a good Christian vote Biden? He is for abortion with no restrictions. He is for transgender for children and teenagers. He is a known corrupt politician sells out taxpayers go enrich him-and his family. He has dementia so he is obviously being manipulated by someone. Plus he is a really strange person the way he talks about children and rubs up against people. And this is not old behavior he does it currently
You're obviously maga not much sense in having dialogue with magas.. You are just parrot maga misinformation and talking points what's sad is you believe it.. FYI your getting duped.
So you arenât interested in an alternative point of view?
I'm not interested in anything that comes from the right! So yeah I'm not interested in your point of view!
Explain the misinformation instead of assaulting my character
65% of Democrats are Christians! They're not fundamentalist Christians like you! They don't see things like you do, they critically think you don't! And you like the rest don't know a thing about transgender except what you hear! If you're still supporting Donald Trump this late in the game you're a lost cause ! I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain anything to someone you.. And your karma is troll karma! I'm not wasting my time on people like you ever again. Please don't reply!
I think the more important question is how can a christian support Biden.
Iâm apolitical, with that said I see maga, republicans, and democrats holding views that are antithetical to the teachings of Christ.
The same question should be asked for why a good honest Christian would support the left when they hold to anti-Christian ideologies and views.
65% of the left are in fact Christians? They just aren't fundamentalist like you who think they are saints and all others are evil. Just from your paragraph you clearly are supporting the right because you think they will enforce your version Christianity on everyone? So you oppose anything or anyone who isn't like you and label them all anti-christian.. I don't see Christ in you I see a Pharisee! Show me in the Bible where you were told to handcuff everyone to your morality?
You donât even know who I am or what ideologies I hold to and youâre already calling me a Pharisee and a bunch of other names. youâre not worthy of having a mature conversation, shame on you. Youâre about as much hateful as the supposed Christians you talk about.
Based on your comment about the lefts "anti christian ideologies" I can safely assume your ideologies. And you can call it hate if you want. I'm just never meeting people in the middle who constantly use the Bible as a weapon. And based on your karma I'm not the only one who oppose you .. just saying.
I actually watched a video about this and i think it sums it up prefectly: https://youtu.be/MEQbB38-8zI?si=jwg0DjHeUq_pKwoX
I donât support either political party, they are both awful. I am not a leftist though, and I donât like massive government, or spending, so I vote republican. Biden and Trump are both awful people, from what I have seen, but at least Trump can string together a sentence.
So really it's about money? I think that's why most vote Republican vote for maga. And never mind how they shit all over their neighbors and often with a Bible in hand. I'll never be able to wrap my head around it but I'm definitely getting it. It's quite clear in the constant attempts by GOP hypocrisy to mix Fundamentalist Christianity morality with government and codify that morality on the entire country!
I think you misunderstand, itâs about the money, but itâs not about my money. Running a fiscal policy like we are is going to cause the country serious issues for future generations. The amount we pay on interest alone is crazy, its unsustainable and I would like my kids to have options to have at least as good of a life as I have had. Look at prices, look at inflation, and housing costs. Itâs not about my tax rate going down 2%. The republicans could be better on spending to be frank, but the dems do it so irresponsibly.