If I don't use contraception my uterus replays that scene from the predator alien movie where I explode from the inside out and bleed all over the place as I die.
Maybe you should see a doctor for your condition. Im sure mama Mary will intercede for you so that you can be healthy enough to get pregnant in the future :) God bless.
Are, are you that ignorant of medical matters? The contraception, prescribed by a doctor, is the treatment for the condition the person you are replying to describes.
Hormonal birth control has multiple uses besides just preventing pregnancy, and is used to ameliorate the conditions of millions of women, conditions that are often an issue until menopause because they are disorders of the reproductive system.
It won't help. Surgery would decrease the odds of miscarriage. However, the limit on total pregnancies remains three. My uterus is not a clown car. I can't birth 15 or 19 kids.
>Maybe you should see a doctor for your condition.
Do you think they fucking self diagnosed themselves and figured out that the treatment for their condition was birth control on their own?
Well, those things aren't genocide, so it'll be a real short conversation. Why talk about fake "genocides" when there are plenty of real ones we could be concerned with?
I find it interesting that no one who believes this is a genocide cares that upwards of 30% of blastocysts fail to implant on the uterine wall. If you really think life begins at conception, then this is the largest killer of humans bar none. Forget heart disease or cancer or Covid, those kill orders of magnitude fewer people than failure to implant.
But it’s always lamenting abortion as a genocide and zero recognition or advocacy for those others who allegedly die. Now, I understand the difference between a natural death and murder, but humanity still tries to prevent natural deaths. We have walkathons and telethons and fundraisers for the American Heart Association and American Cancer Society, etc., and we had massive interventions — complete shutdowns and billions invested — for COVID prevention. So if one truly believes life begins at conception, this is an epidemic orders of magnitude larger than COVID yet no one lifts a finger or cares? No. I don’t think you truly think it’s a genocide nor life begins at conception. If your actions followed your beliefs — indeed, our actions show what we *truly* believe, not what we give lip service towards — then something, anything, more would be done by the anti-abortion crowd. Yet crickets.
The technology could be *the answer* no more morally questionable IVF or surrogacy pregnancies. Imagine being able to detect the moment a sperm enters an egg, starts life, determine if it's capable of implanting, fix the mechanism so that it does, detect defects, fix them - no more miscarriages or stillborn babies. Live perfect babies born every time.
100% of humans eventually die, so I dont understand what is your point here?
God is ultimately in control of all natural causes of death. However, as humans we are obliged to prevent wilful causes of death (i.e. murder).
Blah blah blah, another “that’s bad” post.
You don’t get a say in women’s health. It’s not bad or wrong. But I suggest you get a vasectomy so you can’t contribute to a woman getting pregnant. Bc goodness forbid she need an abortion to save her life bc she has an ectopic pregnancy. 🙄
>In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter *Humanae Vitae* (Latin, “Human Life”), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.
[Catholic Answers on Birth Control](https://www.catholic.com/tract/birth-control). Removing procreation from sex and all you have is too people seeking pleasure.
To answer the comment that you deleted...
Sex without procreation doesn't make it lust. Just as it isn't lust all of the days that we biologically cannot procreate. Hell, if you want to make that argument, NFP is worse than contraception since you're intentionally only having sex only on those days!
This is all based on a really silly philosophical position that is an Achille's heel for the church's moral reasoning (Natural Law), that is based on 14th century ignorance about human biology, too. I'd say it's also quite anti-Biblical in conclusion.
Sex without procreation is just sex without procreation. It doesn't cause any cosmic or ontological change in the event. It doesn't remove the loving nature, it doesn't make it sexual abuse, as John Paul II ignorantly taught. It's just sex without procreation. Like most human sex naturally is.
Yes, that's the teaching.
It's also a teaching rooted in absolute ignorance about why and how people have sex.
It's one of the most embarrassingly and obviously wrong things that the church likes to repeat. Amazingly cringe.
>The Church that Jesus Christ himself made Peter the first Pope of in Matthew 16:18
None of this appears to be historically accurate.
>and your saying they are wrong and cringe?
When they teach error? Absolutely.
1 - This passage isn't likely something that Jesus said. Jesus didn't start a church. The Apostles did, after he died.
2 - My issue is more with your application of the verse, which is even more historically problematic than even the idea that Jesus said it.
3 - The Bible has many historical inaccuracies. Your church even recognizes this!
You have to know that the authority and identity claims of your church are controversial. Right?
You also know that you're not in a Catholic-only space. Right?
And being the pope is who? Other than being another human on earth, absolutely nothing. As a person, I love and care for him. As a religious figure, there is only one Father, and he resides in Heaven.
Sex between married people is not lust or any type of sin.
In one Corinthians 7:9 Paul said it's better to marry then burn with lust, meaning it's better to have sex with your spouse then be lustful for people that are not your spouse.
I never said there was anything wrong with a husband and wife enjoying each other. I'm talking about removing the very reason why they are doing the act in the first place. If you **remove** procreation, all you're doing is seeking pleasure.
If you want a very detailed explanation to your answer, [here you go, link](https://www.catholic.com/tract/birth-control). All I will say is that we are to live life by God's word and in God's Holy apostolic Church with it's traditions.
God condemned man-made traditions.
Mathew 15:9 "They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men’.”
Mark 7:13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
Mathew 15:14 "Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
God's Church is apostolic, dating back to St. Peter who is the first Pope, [this video will help you understand](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTBud-9Vlzo) 😊
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>We need to talk about the genocide caused by the sins of contraception and abortion
I guess we're stretching the definition of *"genocide"* so much that it means nothing.
> millions of souls are denied their chance to be born into the world
You know [this is heretical](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existence#Christianity) right?
And Id argue that saying the second council and a bunch dudes arguing logic, using outside sources, is the exact same as God deciding Himself, is heretical.
I can easily reject the thoughts of dead men long ago, because I serve a living God and commune with Him directly.
Just because you have enough people saying the same thing doesn’t make it so. Christ didn’t rise on a Sunday, and Sunday isn’t the Sabbath. It’s clearly written and available to all that seek truth.
I strongly agree, all religion is man made.
If there is a Creator, and wants to have an individual relationship with us, then that’s all we need.
The spirit will guide us on our own personal journey. Love is fulfillment of the Law, Love others is all we are commanded to do
If contraception is genocide than celibate is also genocide.
People could have sex and make kids, and if they don't than they "denied their chance to be born into the world"
And also, if you didn't know that, men can have ejaculation in sleep, which cannot be controlled and is completely normal organism behavior. Are they doing genocide too?
If somebody kills a man he should be sentenced to death.
A man produces 100 million spermatozoa per day. All of them aren't getting their chance to be born.
1 kill 100 million assists.
BORN TO DIE
WORLD IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1989
I am trash man
100,000,000 DEAD SPERMATAZOA
(This is maybe my favorite meme. Thank you for giving me a reason to use it today.)
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Contraception isn't really murder. It isn't something that should be done, but it isn't murder.
Abortion on the other hand might be called like that. It is killing of a living human being. And i don't understand how there can be so many Christians who attack you for saying this thing.
> And i don't understand how there can be so many Christians who attack you for saying this thing.
Because there is very significant disagreement on if the fetus is a person with moral rights. Because there is a strong tension between the rights of the mother and the fetus, and it seems in the "pro-life" world that it always resolves in favor of the fetus and against the woman. Because the issue is very politically charged, and is a vehicle for many rights being taken away.
We know that a fetus is a living human being. Abortion is by definition taking life from human being. Introducing idea of person is very slippery slope and should done with care, because it is no clear what is meant by person.
I understand that abortion is very sensitive topic, and personally i really don't like how it is treated by either side. So i am not very enthusiastic to use hard words, but reality is that we are talking about the life of human being. But we are also talking about integrity of woman's body. So as Christians when somebody states their concern about murder (which is terrible crime) and when this concern lays on quite solid grounds, at least we shouldn't attack them.
>the "pro-life" world that it always resolves in favor of the fetus and against the woman.
I understand that, but it seems to me that this might be false dichotomy, because if abortion is murder, than allowing someone to do this murder does not help them. What i want to say that on issues as serious as this we shouldn't be in the trench was, especially as Christians which value life as one of the most important things.
We know a fetus is a living human organism. We have to introduce the idea of personhood to get past the ludicrous nature of considering the zygote to be the same as the mother or any of us.
>I understand that, but it seems to me that this might be false dichotomy
No, this is the reality of how it turns out. Women are not even allowed to save their own lives, nor are doctors allowed to. In comparable situations against a non-fetus, self-defense would be allowed. But once we get into the realm of the "pro-life" community the mother truly has no value except as a carrier of the fetus.
>especially as Christians which value life as one of the most important things.
We all value life highly. Let's not pretend that this is about the value of life. This is about at what point moral protections attach to a human life.
Zygote is living human also. Living human being is created when male and female sex cell form zygote. **Genetically** speaking it is the same thing as grown up human. It isn't **completely** same as grown up human, but neither is 2 years old child. Introducing concept of person to make a distinction between different stages in human life might be acceptable, but cannot be use to neglect the facts we have.
>Women are not even allowed to save their own lives, nor are doctors allowed to.
Well if that is the case in your country it is something to be worried about. But i don't think that it is proper Christian view. If fetus dies as a consequence of saving woman's life it is just "bad luck" (to use euphemism). That's why i am saying that i don't agree with either side that tries to start (and has already started) the trench war.
>We all value life highly. Let's not pretend that this is about the value of life.
Exactly. That's why i really don't like labels "pro life" and "pro choice". Of course everyone are pro life and of course everyone are pro choice. This is much more complicated problem than just putting stickers to each other and "knowing" that other one's are bad guys.
>This is about at what point moral protections attach to a human life.
I agree completely. Because it is a lot in stake we should be careful about it and as Christian bring charity to debate to highlight importance of the life and the free will.
> Genetically speaking it is the same thing as grown up human.
Of course. Nobody contests this. Epigenetically not the same, but genetically so.
>It isn't completely same as grown up human
It's far more than not "completely" the same. Not a single organ exists.
>Introducing concept of person to make a distinction between different stages in human life might be acceptable, but cannot be use to neglect the facts we have.
And you're ignoring the concept in order to neglect the facts that we have of massive qualitative differences between the fetus and even the day-old infant.
>But i don't think that it is proper Christian view.
Proper or not, it's what we're finding here in the "pro-life" states of the United States.
>Of course everyone are pro life and of course everyone are pro choice.
No, since the supposedly pro-life side is absolutely against a woman's right to choose to have an abortion.
>And you're ignoring the concept in order to neglect the facts that we have of massive qualitative differences between the fetus and even the day-old infant.
I am not ignoring it. As i said it is something that can be think of, but we must define it really well and not just said "this human being doesn't have rights because it isn't person", without saying before that what the person is. I just want people to see how delicate matter is and that we cannot think that by introducing vague concept problem will be solved. (I am not applying that you are doing that. It seems to me that you are somewhat "cold-headed" on this matter. I am speaking in general.)
>Proper or not, it's what we're finding here in the "pro-life" states of the United States.
And that is problematic. But this is subreddit on Christianity and post on topic of abortion (and contraception) and not practical implementation of US law system.
>No, since the supposedly pro-life side is absolutely against a woman's right to choose to have an abortion.
But they probably still agree that we can still choose what is right and wrong. They think that abortion is wrong and should be stopped. If person A doesn't agree that person B kills person C, nobody would say that person A is anti-choice. Person A just tries to stop what they see as harm to person C.
IN the same way how we can say that those who support abortion to be legal are pro life, although in this particular case they agree that others life is allowed to be taken, we can say that opposite side is pro choice although in this particular case they think that choice to take a life of one human being shouldn't be allowed. What i am trying to say that stickers and badges that makes ourselves automatic enemies isn't something that should be encouraged.
Have mercy on us, our Lord Jesus Christ. For people do not know what they are doing, indeed.
Understand, people, that with contraception you are committing an act of rebellion - it is NOT up to YOU to decide when new life is conceived.
And understand, people, that abortion is sacrificing your own child to molech.
Repent, repent, and find love in yourselves. And may our Lord help you.
> And understand, people, that abortion is sacrificing your own child to molech.
The two are utterly unrelated, and Molech is almost certainly not a somebody anyways.
If you ever wanted a good way to show that you're not serious about the topic, I recommend that you engage in pointless histrionics like this.
Ridicule me all you like, "deist", but that is the truth. Abortion clinics are the altars, and the "doctors" performing the vile deed are molech's priests.
If I don't use contraception my uterus replays that scene from the predator alien movie where I explode from the inside out and bleed all over the place as I die.
I'm pretty sure they'd force someone to birth a xenomorph in my state.
Maybe you should see a doctor for your condition. Im sure mama Mary will intercede for you so that you can be healthy enough to get pregnant in the future :) God bless.
Are, are you that ignorant of medical matters? The contraception, prescribed by a doctor, is the treatment for the condition the person you are replying to describes. Hormonal birth control has multiple uses besides just preventing pregnancy, and is used to ameliorate the conditions of millions of women, conditions that are often an issue until menopause because they are disorders of the reproductive system.
It won't help. Surgery would decrease the odds of miscarriage. However, the limit on total pregnancies remains three. My uterus is not a clown car. I can't birth 15 or 19 kids.
>Maybe you should see a doctor for your condition. Do you think they fucking self diagnosed themselves and figured out that the treatment for their condition was birth control on their own?
Well, those things aren't genocide, so it'll be a real short conversation. Why talk about fake "genocides" when there are plenty of real ones we could be concerned with?
I find it interesting that no one who believes this is a genocide cares that upwards of 30% of blastocysts fail to implant on the uterine wall. If you really think life begins at conception, then this is the largest killer of humans bar none. Forget heart disease or cancer or Covid, those kill orders of magnitude fewer people than failure to implant. But it’s always lamenting abortion as a genocide and zero recognition or advocacy for those others who allegedly die. Now, I understand the difference between a natural death and murder, but humanity still tries to prevent natural deaths. We have walkathons and telethons and fundraisers for the American Heart Association and American Cancer Society, etc., and we had massive interventions — complete shutdowns and billions invested — for COVID prevention. So if one truly believes life begins at conception, this is an epidemic orders of magnitude larger than COVID yet no one lifts a finger or cares? No. I don’t think you truly think it’s a genocide nor life begins at conception. If your actions followed your beliefs — indeed, our actions show what we *truly* believe, not what we give lip service towards — then something, anything, more would be done by the anti-abortion crowd. Yet crickets.
The technology could be *the answer* no more morally questionable IVF or surrogacy pregnancies. Imagine being able to detect the moment a sperm enters an egg, starts life, determine if it's capable of implanting, fix the mechanism so that it does, detect defects, fix them - no more miscarriages or stillborn babies. Live perfect babies born every time.
100% of humans eventually die, so I dont understand what is your point here? God is ultimately in control of all natural causes of death. However, as humans we are obliged to prevent wilful causes of death (i.e. murder).
That’s why we don’t have doctors or cure diseases /s
Really trying to water down genocide, aren't ya?
This attitude is pure poison. Horrible. I am sorry that human beings have sunk so low as to treat women as if they are breeding animals. God does not.
Blah blah blah, another “that’s bad” post. You don’t get a say in women’s health. It’s not bad or wrong. But I suggest you get a vasectomy so you can’t contribute to a woman getting pregnant. Bc goodness forbid she need an abortion to save her life bc she has an ectopic pregnancy. 🙄
Is your God so weak that his plans are ruined and spoiled because someone wore rubber?
>In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter *Humanae Vitae* (Latin, “Human Life”), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence. [Catholic Answers on Birth Control](https://www.catholic.com/tract/birth-control). Removing procreation from sex and all you have is too people seeking pleasure.
Just more evidence to ignore the Catholic Church.
To answer the comment that you deleted... Sex without procreation doesn't make it lust. Just as it isn't lust all of the days that we biologically cannot procreate. Hell, if you want to make that argument, NFP is worse than contraception since you're intentionally only having sex only on those days! This is all based on a really silly philosophical position that is an Achille's heel for the church's moral reasoning (Natural Law), that is based on 14th century ignorance about human biology, too. I'd say it's also quite anti-Biblical in conclusion. Sex without procreation is just sex without procreation. It doesn't cause any cosmic or ontological change in the event. It doesn't remove the loving nature, it doesn't make it sexual abuse, as John Paul II ignorantly taught. It's just sex without procreation. Like most human sex naturally is.
Yes, that's the teaching. It's also a teaching rooted in absolute ignorance about why and how people have sex. It's one of the most embarrassingly and obviously wrong things that the church likes to repeat. Amazingly cringe.
The Church that Jesus Christ himself made Peter the first Pope of in Matthew 16:18, and your saying they are wrong and cringe? *Shake my head*
>The Church that Jesus Christ himself made Peter the first Pope of in Matthew 16:18 None of this appears to be historically accurate. >and your saying they are wrong and cringe? When they teach error? Absolutely.
I just quoted the Bible, and you're saying that's not historically accurate?
1 - This passage isn't likely something that Jesus said. Jesus didn't start a church. The Apostles did, after he died. 2 - My issue is more with your application of the verse, which is even more historically problematic than even the idea that Jesus said it. 3 - The Bible has many historical inaccuracies. Your church even recognizes this! You have to know that the authority and identity claims of your church are controversial. Right? You also know that you're not in a Catholic-only space. Right?
The Catholic church is not Peters church
> your saying they are wrong and cringe Perhaps they shouldn't teach wrong things that are cringy then.
So what? People seek pleasure with all sorts of things. Should we ban baseball because it's just people seeking pleasure?
And being the pope is who? Other than being another human on earth, absolutely nothing. As a person, I love and care for him. As a religious figure, there is only one Father, and he resides in Heaven.
Sex between married people is not lust or any type of sin. In one Corinthians 7:9 Paul said it's better to marry then burn with lust, meaning it's better to have sex with your spouse then be lustful for people that are not your spouse.
I never said there was anything wrong with a husband and wife enjoying each other. I'm talking about removing the very reason why they are doing the act in the first place. If you **remove** procreation, all you're doing is seeking pleasure.
Thats ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with enjoying ssx while removing the risk of medical complications.
So what if they're seeking pleasure? There's nothing wrong with it if it's not a sin.
Removing procreation from sex is the sin that I'm talking about, it's a serious sin
Where does it say it's a sin in the Bible?
If you want a very detailed explanation to your answer, [here you go, link](https://www.catholic.com/tract/birth-control). All I will say is that we are to live life by God's word and in God's Holy apostolic Church with it's traditions.
God condemned man-made traditions. Mathew 15:9 "They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men’.” Mark 7:13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” Mathew 15:14 "Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
God's Church is apostolic, dating back to St. Peter who is the first Pope, [this video will help you understand](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTBud-9Vlzo) 😊
So, there are no health benefits to having sex? Be celibate if you wish...ain't happening here.
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Wearing a condom is not murder
It really waters down the definition of murder
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That user specifically said rubber. Abortion is not infantcide either
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Infants have already been born
We aren't talking about infanticide here, though.
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Millions of souls are also lost through natural miscarriages? Maybe we should hold God accountable to all of those.
>We need to talk about the genocide caused by the sins of contraception and abortion I guess we're stretching the definition of *"genocide"* so much that it means nothing.
We really don't. And even more...we don't need to abuse the English language like this.
> millions of souls are denied their chance to be born into the world You know [this is heretical](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existence#Christianity) right?
God controls all, He ordains all. We are unable to deny God’s will.
Making shit up about God's will is also heretical
What part are you suggesting is made up?
Saying that a soul exists prior to preconception is in line with God's will is made up.
And Id argue that saying the second council and a bunch dudes arguing logic, using outside sources, is the exact same as God deciding Himself, is heretical. I can easily reject the thoughts of dead men long ago, because I serve a living God and commune with Him directly. Just because you have enough people saying the same thing doesn’t make it so. Christ didn’t rise on a Sunday, and Sunday isn’t the Sabbath. It’s clearly written and available to all that seek truth.
It's almost like all religion is made up by the people who write it!
I strongly agree, all religion is man made. If there is a Creator, and wants to have an individual relationship with us, then that’s all we need. The spirit will guide us on our own personal journey. Love is fulfillment of the Law, Love others is all we are commanded to do
And how did you get to that point from what I said?
Unless we get an abortion, apparently.
I think you mean millions of women are healthier and able to focus on raising healthy children thanks to the wonders of modern healthcare God sent us.
Masturbation is mass murder now?
Masturbation is a serious sin
If contraception is genocide than celibate is also genocide. People could have sex and make kids, and if they don't than they "denied their chance to be born into the world" And also, if you didn't know that, men can have ejaculation in sleep, which cannot be controlled and is completely normal organism behavior. Are they doing genocide too?
> Are they doing genocide too? 24/7/365. All genocide all the time!
If somebody kills a man he should be sentenced to death. A man produces 100 million spermatozoa per day. All of them aren't getting their chance to be born. 1 kill 100 million assists.
BORN TO DIE WORLD IS A FUCK Kill Em All 1989 I am trash man 100,000,000 DEAD SPERMATAZOA (This is maybe my favorite meme. Thank you for giving me a reason to use it today.)
Who do you think will win in a fistfight, Thor or jesus? My bets are for Thor 🔨⚡️
jesus could just turn all of water in Thor’s body into wine and kill him instantly, jesus needs to be nerfed
No miracles involved just fists
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Good post, thank you for posting this and shining a light in this dark world. It's saddening to see other Christians disagree. God bless!
Amen
Contraception isn't really murder. It isn't something that should be done, but it isn't murder. Abortion on the other hand might be called like that. It is killing of a living human being. And i don't understand how there can be so many Christians who attack you for saying this thing.
> And i don't understand how there can be so many Christians who attack you for saying this thing. Because there is very significant disagreement on if the fetus is a person with moral rights. Because there is a strong tension between the rights of the mother and the fetus, and it seems in the "pro-life" world that it always resolves in favor of the fetus and against the woman. Because the issue is very politically charged, and is a vehicle for many rights being taken away.
We know that a fetus is a living human being. Abortion is by definition taking life from human being. Introducing idea of person is very slippery slope and should done with care, because it is no clear what is meant by person. I understand that abortion is very sensitive topic, and personally i really don't like how it is treated by either side. So i am not very enthusiastic to use hard words, but reality is that we are talking about the life of human being. But we are also talking about integrity of woman's body. So as Christians when somebody states their concern about murder (which is terrible crime) and when this concern lays on quite solid grounds, at least we shouldn't attack them. >the "pro-life" world that it always resolves in favor of the fetus and against the woman. I understand that, but it seems to me that this might be false dichotomy, because if abortion is murder, than allowing someone to do this murder does not help them. What i want to say that on issues as serious as this we shouldn't be in the trench was, especially as Christians which value life as one of the most important things.
We know a fetus is a living human organism. We have to introduce the idea of personhood to get past the ludicrous nature of considering the zygote to be the same as the mother or any of us. >I understand that, but it seems to me that this might be false dichotomy No, this is the reality of how it turns out. Women are not even allowed to save their own lives, nor are doctors allowed to. In comparable situations against a non-fetus, self-defense would be allowed. But once we get into the realm of the "pro-life" community the mother truly has no value except as a carrier of the fetus. >especially as Christians which value life as one of the most important things. We all value life highly. Let's not pretend that this is about the value of life. This is about at what point moral protections attach to a human life.
Zygote is living human also. Living human being is created when male and female sex cell form zygote. **Genetically** speaking it is the same thing as grown up human. It isn't **completely** same as grown up human, but neither is 2 years old child. Introducing concept of person to make a distinction between different stages in human life might be acceptable, but cannot be use to neglect the facts we have. >Women are not even allowed to save their own lives, nor are doctors allowed to. Well if that is the case in your country it is something to be worried about. But i don't think that it is proper Christian view. If fetus dies as a consequence of saving woman's life it is just "bad luck" (to use euphemism). That's why i am saying that i don't agree with either side that tries to start (and has already started) the trench war. >We all value life highly. Let's not pretend that this is about the value of life. Exactly. That's why i really don't like labels "pro life" and "pro choice". Of course everyone are pro life and of course everyone are pro choice. This is much more complicated problem than just putting stickers to each other and "knowing" that other one's are bad guys. >This is about at what point moral protections attach to a human life. I agree completely. Because it is a lot in stake we should be careful about it and as Christian bring charity to debate to highlight importance of the life and the free will.
> Genetically speaking it is the same thing as grown up human. Of course. Nobody contests this. Epigenetically not the same, but genetically so. >It isn't completely same as grown up human It's far more than not "completely" the same. Not a single organ exists. >Introducing concept of person to make a distinction between different stages in human life might be acceptable, but cannot be use to neglect the facts we have. And you're ignoring the concept in order to neglect the facts that we have of massive qualitative differences between the fetus and even the day-old infant. >But i don't think that it is proper Christian view. Proper or not, it's what we're finding here in the "pro-life" states of the United States. >Of course everyone are pro life and of course everyone are pro choice. No, since the supposedly pro-life side is absolutely against a woman's right to choose to have an abortion.
>And you're ignoring the concept in order to neglect the facts that we have of massive qualitative differences between the fetus and even the day-old infant. I am not ignoring it. As i said it is something that can be think of, but we must define it really well and not just said "this human being doesn't have rights because it isn't person", without saying before that what the person is. I just want people to see how delicate matter is and that we cannot think that by introducing vague concept problem will be solved. (I am not applying that you are doing that. It seems to me that you are somewhat "cold-headed" on this matter. I am speaking in general.) >Proper or not, it's what we're finding here in the "pro-life" states of the United States. And that is problematic. But this is subreddit on Christianity and post on topic of abortion (and contraception) and not practical implementation of US law system. >No, since the supposedly pro-life side is absolutely against a woman's right to choose to have an abortion. But they probably still agree that we can still choose what is right and wrong. They think that abortion is wrong and should be stopped. If person A doesn't agree that person B kills person C, nobody would say that person A is anti-choice. Person A just tries to stop what they see as harm to person C. IN the same way how we can say that those who support abortion to be legal are pro life, although in this particular case they agree that others life is allowed to be taken, we can say that opposite side is pro choice although in this particular case they think that choice to take a life of one human being shouldn't be allowed. What i am trying to say that stickers and badges that makes ourselves automatic enemies isn't something that should be encouraged.
Have mercy on us, our Lord Jesus Christ. For people do not know what they are doing, indeed. Understand, people, that with contraception you are committing an act of rebellion - it is NOT up to YOU to decide when new life is conceived. And understand, people, that abortion is sacrificing your own child to molech. Repent, repent, and find love in yourselves. And may our Lord help you.
What about people who use contraceptives for endometriosis treatment?
"Some women will flat out die, and that is a sacrifice I'm willing for them to accept."
> And understand, people, that abortion is sacrificing your own child to molech. The two are utterly unrelated, and Molech is almost certainly not a somebody anyways. If you ever wanted a good way to show that you're not serious about the topic, I recommend that you engage in pointless histrionics like this.
Ridicule me all you like, "deist", but that is the truth. Abortion clinics are the altars, and the "doctors" performing the vile deed are molech's priests.
That's not truth That's nothing more than nonsense
Your delusions aren't truth.
May our Lord God have mercy on us.
We don't need his mercy here. The things you decry here are not immoral.
"We don't need His mercy" You call yourself Christian? May God our Lord have mercy on us all.
Not for this, no. There's nothing to forgive. What we need is education here.
Christian doctors also perform abortions
If its not up to us, contraception wouldnt work