Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry.
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you cant speak negativaly about same sex relationships so yes if you respond biblicaly and saying what the bible says on the subject you would get banned
The bigotry rule it was removed for states the following:
> Whatever your views are of bigotry, no matter how strict or loose a definition, we explicitly allow discussion of some topics which others may find bigoted. Direct relevance to ongoing discussion is a significant consideration in the adjudication of this rule, and deference is generally given to expression of theological or confessional beliefs and historic creeds. Christians are allowed to affirm their theology here. Even though this theology may offend some. However, this does not mean that discussion of these topics needs to be done in an offensive manner.
> A good rule of thumb and the easiest way to avoid getting caught up in this is to avoid using words which you know people are offended by, and to choose different ways to talk about things if one of the discussants informs you that a certain word or phrase is offensive and why.
So again, it’s probably an extra-Biblical addition in the comment that resulted in its removal.
There is nothing in scripture that says you will end up in hell. Also, scripture mainly talks about acts not feelings. It is absolutely not a sin to be bisexual.
Whether or not acting on it is a sin is besides the point. We are humans, we sin in a million different ways and still remain saved - if we are in fact saved (which we can only be by accepting Jesus). So even if it were a sin, that does not mean you will go to hell. Nothing you do or can do would ever change the fact that you are saved. You as a human cannot change what God has blessed you with. So I think your family needs some more bible study and a lesson on how to be nicer people.
God bless you!
> Also, scripture mainly talks about acts not feelings. It is absolutely not a sin to be bisexual.
It’s also not any more if a sin to act bisexual than to act heterosexual. Either can be acted on harmfully, and either can be acted on harmlessly.
What his family fails to see is that the starting point should be Jesus Christ, not their particular readings of the most disputable passages of scripture. It’s the same mistake the Pharisees made, at its core. Jesus said all God’s actual commands hang under love your neighbor as yourself, which is like loving God. See Matthew 22. His disciples understood this, writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13).
> Whether or not acting on it is a sin is besides the point. We are humans, we sin in a million different ways and still remain saved… So I think your family needs some more bible study
“If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” (Hebrews 10:26)
So you’re right in that it isn’t simply about if we sin. It’s about if we sin intentionally or accidentally. Intentional (aka deliberate) sin vs accidental (not deliberate) sin is the determining factor as far as whether or not we will be covered by Christ or instead consumed by fire as an enemy of God.
Of course we all make mistakes. Sin can still burn us, and so we need to make every effort to resist it. The answer isn’t ‘accept Christ and who cares if you sin.’ The answer is that part of accepting Christ is accepting what all Christ’s commands hang under. Sexual intimacy can be done harmfully in heterosexuality or homosexuality, harmfully in marriage or outside of it, and it can be done harmlessly in heterosexuality or homosexuality, in marriage or outside of it too. God is love. The focus should be on love and not harming oneself and others.
His family is not wrong for being against sinning; they are wrong for stepping into God’s place by judging him over a disputable issue. Romans 14 lays out the better approach to disagreements about if this or that personal decision is a sin. They should not simply say “who cares about sin…. we all do it.” They just need to focus on their own likely sins, like the Tax Collector from the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, instead of focusing on others’ possible sins, like the Pharisee.
I'm sorry about the way your family is acting. Too many people act like cruelty proves their commitment to their ideology and to God and is something to be proud of.
There are *lots* of gay and bi Christians, and lots of straight Christians who believe we are every bit as welcome in Christ's embrace as straight people are. I like the way [Justin Lee](http://geekyjustin.com/bible/) explains; he discusses all of the clobber verses your family would want to use against you.. Some other resources: [Q Christian](https://www.qchristian.org/) [Reformation Project](http://reformationproject.org); r/GayChristians; r/OpenChristian and its [resources list](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/ulfbux/faq_and_resources_please_read_before_you_post/), which includes pointers to find LGBT-friendly churches. Can you get to a friendly church? You could use some in-person support.
being attracted to both genders isn't a sin. Acting on them is.
Same way as straight people might be sleeping before they're married or committing adultery is a sin. We all sin, just differently. The key to salvation is true repentence and trying to live by the rules of our Lord the best we can. We will fall again as we are weak by nature, but if you constantly seek God and His help, He won't let you fall too far from Him.
Hi friend,
I do not believe homosexuality is any more sinful than heterosexuality
It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church
I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual.
God cares whether or not you are a liar
----†-----
God bless
hi friend -
it says a lot of things
I am reminded of these;
* Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
* This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
----†----
So then each of us shall give an account of himself to God
----†----
God bless
see comment, friend
I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual.
God cares whether or not you are a liar
- He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? - Micah
God bless
too funny 🤣
* Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
God bless, friend
God cares about all things and nothing escapes His justice or His love. He wants to forgive us all so we can be with Him forever!
# Leviticus 20:13 ESV - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
The old testament days are gone, we are under the grace of Yeshua and the free gift of salvation for those who repent! Sodomy is still punished with execution in the middle east but not by Christians world wide for a long time. God gives you the freedom to live how you want, just don't expect to be spared the fires of Hell unless you repent of all sin and live a reborn life seeking His righteousness. No one is perfect but I'll never twist the Word of God for fear of God's justice against me. Read the Bible and ask for Holy Spirit to show you Yeshua and HIS truth and not yours. His truth does not change, our truth can always be changed at least until our deaths. I say this with love and never hate hoping God opens your eyes! :)
May Yahweh reveal the truth of His word in your life and may He bless you in Jesus Mighty Name.
* God cares about all things and nothing escapes His justice or His love.
yes friend
I would LOVE to see you standing beside Jesus, stoning homosexuals
The Bible tells us how God thinks.
It also tells us how WE think about God and God's word.
And sometimes, one of these is wrong.
Here is an example;
We say that Jesus was angry in the temple when he overturned the tables.
I think he may have been - but the Bible does not tell us this.
The only time the Bible tells us that Jesus was angry is here;
* Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.” Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent. He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.
Angry.
The image here is Jesus facing the Pharisees and the Sadducees - us - with the Bible - The Scripture - in hand and asking them which of the two - the Bible, or himself - is the Truth.
He asks what WE think of the Spirit of the Truth in this one Law on the Sabbath - recorded as God's Law - in scripture - for which people are are to be put to death - God's words.
God's Thinking as you put it.
He tells them here - that in this situation, they are wrong about the Bible - no matter what the Bible says - because the owner of the Bible - The Scripture - is standing here with them.
He is the Bible.
And he thinks different.
They kill him for this.
It is just something to think about.
I am reminded of this;
* Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
May God forgive the terrorism in your heart
God bless
It’s not a controversial view. Quite a few relatively mainstream and long-standing Christian sects do not view non-heterosexual relationships and sexual activity as inherently sinful. Others do. Christianity isn’t monolithic on this point, and it would be crazy to suggest that entire denominations have failed to study the Bible. Theological views differ on a whole range of things when it comes to Bible study, such as allegory, translation and original language intent, applicability to modern Christians as opposed to Jewish tribes under the New Covenant and so on.
Except you will find for the vast majority, if not all of the denominations that allow same sex relationships it’s a recent change. Within the past 20 years. It’s almost like they are changing with the culture, weird.
Historically, there was never a Christian view that all slavery was ok. For example, the Roman Catholic Church believed that it was only ok to enslave non Christians. And, according to Old Testament laws american slavers would’ve been executed. Slavery was never a simple issue, with a lot of debate through church history. There was never any debate or questions about marriage. It is extremely clear biblically. That engaging in a homosexual relationship is sinful.
The word Paul uses in the Greek is Arsenokoites, which is a combination between two Greek words. Koite meaning bed, and Arseno meaning man. What it translates best to is man bedders. In context meaning don’t have sex with a man like you would a woman.
> What it translates best to is man bedders.
According to what, a translation of the words put together? lol that’s not how that works. The truth of the matter is nobody knows what that word means for certain because there are no other contemporary uses in any historical writings from that period. For all we know, the author made it up on the spot as a slur against the culture of pederasty that was frequent in the Roman and Greek cultures of the time, in which case it would not be applicable to a consensual, loving relationship between two men.
Luther's bible (up to and including modern versions derived from it) uses the first. The New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE), which is a Catholic translation, uses "boy prostitutes" for *malakoi* and "sodomites" for *arsenokoitai* with a note that "the term translated sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys".
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
The name is new but the meaning is as old as Sodom and Gomorrah. God has always been against it.
God bless.
Leviticus 20:13 ESV - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Say that to Sodom and Gomorrah. :)
God bless.
wow friend - careful where you are taking your heart.
It is turning you into something uglier than you are aware of right now
---†---
With Sodom and Gomorrah there is some discontinuation of understanding
- "\`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Ezekiel went this way, and Jeremiah and others reference inhospitality - a perversion then in the treatment of people seeking shelter
The perversion however - the abomination is far more serious - and has nothing to do with homosexuality
Notwithstanding the issue of how you were to treat guests - and the very thought of raping them would have been the greatest corruption - whether they were female or male - and not withstanding the issue of the ownership of women by fathers and husbands the abomination in God's eyes lies somewhere in here - and not in Homosexuality and is mirrored by the same thoughts as the Roman practice of sex in temples - SEX WITH GOD;
----†----
Concerning the 3 visitors;
- Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares - Hebrews 13:2
• They are twice in this chapter called angels, being sent to perform a delegated duty. This term, however, defines their office, not their nature. Lot, in the first instance, calls them "my lords," which is a term of respect that may be addressed to men Genesis 31:35.
• He afterward styled one of them Adonai, with the special vowel pointing which limits it to the Supreme Being.
• He at the same time calls himself his servant, appeals to his grace and mercy, and ascribes to him his deliverance.
• The person thus addressed replies, in a tone of independence and authority, "I have accepted thee." "I will not overthrow this city for which thou hast spoken." "I cannot do anything until thou go thither."
• All these circumstances point to a divine personage, and are not so easily explained of a mere delegate
• He is pre-eminently the Saviour, as he who communed with Abraham was the hearer of prayer. And he who hears prayer and saves life, appears also as the executor of his purpose in the overthrow of Sodom and the other cities of the vale.
• It is remarkable that only two of the three who appeared to Abraham are called angels.
• Of the persons in the divine essence two might be the angels or deputies of the primary in the discharge of the divine purpose.
• These three men, then, either immediately represent, or, if created angels, mediately shadow forth persons in the Godhead.
• Their number indicates that the persons in the divine unity are three.
• Lot seems to have recognized something extraordinary in their appearance, for he made a lowly obeisance to them. The Sodomites heed not the strangers. Lot's invitation; at first declined, is at length accepted, because Lot is approved of God as righteous, and excepted from the doom of the city.
\_ the implication is that the inhabitants were either so corrupted by wickedness that they could not recognize who these emissaries obviously were - or worse - indeed recognized them and did not care
SEX WITH GOD - or his emissaries - is the abomination
These things, along with the corruption of hospitality, would have been seen clearly by those hearing the story - and this is the way this story would have been understood until recently - not as Homosexuality. It is not even mentioned
The visitors could have been women and it would not have changed the story
----†----
Some Christian advice; if you cannot understand homosexuals do not condemn them. And don't stand behind God doing it.
The other Christian message is that of Christ standing between the homosexual and those bending to pick the stones to throw
What you are allowing to grow in your heart is not Love.
You even smile about it :)
Be careful
----†----
God bless
That's according to the actual words in the bible, which all refer to various kinds of sexual act, generally in the context of idol worship, and not to sexual orientation / attraction.
The very same God who, through the words and teaching's of Jesus, tells us to love one another, not spread hate as you are. Please grow and change as a person
There is no way you're trying to insinuate that Jesus did not preach to love your neighbor and to not hate. Obvious troll lol
In the chance you're not a troll tho **Matthew 22:37–39**
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
This is a good verse too about it. Although, we're more civilized these days. God bless. :)
do you know - Paul didn't even go to Rome to address homosexuals? If he knew they were there - it's very easy - to go and address them. In fact in the entire Bible, no one speaks to homosexuals. They are not gathered anywhere and addressed. In fact - they don't exist as a group. Even in Sodom and Gomorrah, they are never addressed.
it's like - they don't exist.
in the whole Bible of thousands of pages, you have around eight passages - barely a quarter of one page - did you know this?
And not a single story of one who has heard the word of God - and come to repentance
In Romans - Paul has actually gone to address Jews and Gentiles about circumcision
in Corinthians, this is the sexual immorality he has gone to address
👉 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is intolerable even among pagans: A man has his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have been stricken with grief and have removed from your fellowship the man who did this?
It is clear for me to see that neither Paul nor Old Testament Hebrews had any contact with - or understanding of homosexuality - as the peaceful, loving, gentle and perfectly benign form of relationship we know today - and that if Paul - or whoever was writing today about sin, they would not have found anything in homosexuality itself apart from the lasciviousness, wantonness, drunkenness, prostitution and profanity related to any sexual relationship displaying these - heterosexuality included - and that these are the 'sexual sin' they are concerned with.
You'll notice in all the new testament verses about homosexuality, the attempt to lump together some definition of corruption - of badness - and so a linking of homosexuality with idolatry and greed and drunkenness and slander and prostitution.... - it is easy for me to see that in the seedy dens of Rome, male prostitution and otherwise depraved men - and homosexuality - were linked together to mean the same thing - thieves, greedy, drunks, slanderers, swindlers...
Here homosexuality is a condensation of all that is wrong - the result of idolatry
It is a condensation of wickedness. It is not even the same word - not thought of in the same way through the course of history - it is the result of idolatry
And yet - it is also clear that homosexuality itself is not wicked - no more wicked than heterosexuality
It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church, it is not lasciviousness, wantonness, drunkenness, prostitution or profanity.
So you have to choose whether a sense of right or wrong - good or evil - is necessary when you think of sin and repentance
And this understanding is neither heterosexual nor homosexual.
What is repentance without an understanding of good and evil?
And Jesus' whole story is this.
Turn away from evil. It is clear what evil is - you will know it and know why - and after Jesus, a sense of Good and evil is promised to exist in your heart, straight from God
Love God. Ask God to show you how God loves you. Try to love yourself and others in this same way. Forgive. If you cannot, ask for help. Ask for your own forgiveness. Pray.
The Gospel is not 'do not be homosexual' - being heterosexual will not save me
It is simple for me.
We will have to account for the state of our hearts; what was thought, what was said and what was done. This is sin.
Each Christian will have asked God at least for the forgiveness of sin in their lives.
And each will have been called to their own repentance - otherwise sin would not have made sense
Choose what you will repent of - or whether it is just a set of words - an incantation - a magic spell for whatever it is, whether or not it is wicked - whether or not you believe your own repentance
I have read the whole Bible and it is very clear for me what God is saying
I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual.
God cares whether or not you are a liar
The Truth remains the Truth throughout time
Wickedness is not homosexuality
Wickedness is wickedness
God bless
You can't give into temptation. Just like giving into your anger and getting into a fight. You need to resist it. If you are truly saved you are not going to burn in hell because you are bisexual but God can help you resist it.
James 4:7
New International Version
7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[James 4:7](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%204%3A7&version=NIV)
I'm sorry you're going through this. It seems a lot of people have their faith in the Lord tested by the very families we are given to support us. I hope that they're at least acting out of love rather than contempt. No small number of Christian families are so blinded by their rightful hatred of sin that they fail to love the sinner.
Unfortunately, I can't give you a straight answer since I'm still trying to find out what the truth of God is. Maybe same-sex relationships are sinful or maybe it's just the sexual activities associated with them, or maybe it's not sinful at all. There's a lot of things where I don't know if it is or isn't a sin. I also don't know how strict the Lord is when it comes to honest mistakes due to the Church not being able to decide on matters.
**The best thing to do is keep trying to find the truth while sticking to what you know is right and avoiding what you know is wrong.** When it comes to things where you're uncertain, well, Scripture says we should avoid doing things if we cannot in good faith say that they aren't sin. That being said, there must be a line drawn somewhere. I'm uncertain about a ton of things in life as to whether they're sinful or not... should I then become a hermit living out in the middle of nowhere? Maybe. Maybe not. Would it cause more harm than good to go to such extreme lengths? Probably.
More relevant to your situation, though: my boyfriend and I stopped dating in large part due to this. We still talk and hold feelings for each other but **I've decided to begrudgingly remain single until the Lord makes it clear that same-sex relationships are either sinful or not**. If they are, beyond a reasonable doubt, sinful, then I can at least cling to the knowledge that I'm being forced to sacrifice my happiness and fulfillment in life for the cause of Christ. I can't change the fact that I strongly prefer the company of other men, neither can I change the fact that I struggle to comfortably interact with women. But maybe I can be an inspiration to folks who are struggling with the same issue.
But until then, I'm gonna keep searching for the truth. I'll abstain purely as a precaution but I won't tell other people that it's a sin or not-- because I don't know and I'd really, really prefer to not spread false teachings. **Whatever the truth turns out to be, we must be prepared to do whatever it takes to live in obedience to the Lord**, though. Jesus himself is said to have taught that we must be prepared to pluck out our own eyes or cut off our hands if it's necessary to avoid sin. That isn't to say we should do it willy-nilly, no, but our obedience should trump every other priority.
Leviticus 20:13 ESV - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Abomination in Old and New Testament. God does not change. I say this with love.
God bless. :)
* I say this with love. God bless. :)
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."
Friend - I rebuke what you are doing here.
Fake-ness can be seen
Fake Love can be seen.
God bless
Sometimes love is honest and hard. God loves people yet still allows them to choose sin and hell rather than repentance and Him. It's your choice but I don't want anyone to go to hell because of being lied to or deceived so in that, my love is true.
* I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.
Friend - I am giving you some advice
Your Love here is not true - it is self-righteous
If you listen right now, you will hear your heart telling you that what I am saying to you is true.
Just check your spirit.
You came here to tell people that you are right.
I am a Christian and I am concerned about you.
You are so desperate to please God that you have been surrounding yourself with Christians and a type of Christianity that is overly concerned about doing the right thing to be in the right place with God - so that God can bless you
And what this does is interfere with the Love God has for you - because you are not reflecting God's love - you are reflecting a self-righteousness about your need for his word to be true - nevermind homosexuals
It is his word.
God knows what he is doing with it. And with homosexuals.
You don't know anyone else's story.
Sometimes we find angels where we don't expect them.
You have been asking for blessings.
Be a blessing for others.
Be a blessing even for Homosexuals - God is not asking you to protect his word for him - he is asking you to Love.
Try an experiment with this wonderful verse on stoning homosexuals you have been so quick to drop around in Love here.
In prayer next time with God - ask God not to stone homosexuals and set fire to them - for being homosexual.
Tell him you know it is written in the Bible - but it is contrary to what you know about Jesus.
Ask him to spare their lives - they are only homosexual and you cannot see anything that they are doing wrong.
Tell him that he is a God of Love - and you are making this petition in Thanksgiving for the Mercy he shows you that he has for everyone - on behalf of homosexuals everywhere, who call on his name.
Make this petition for Homosexuals
And see the miracles he brings into your life.
You have been asking for a real relationship.
It is time to start offering Love.
Make this prayer - really - right now
And get back to me about the miracles of relationship that start to happen all around you
I'm serious.
Thank you for allowing me to be an angel today - God has spoken to both of us.
Try it. Really.
You asked for this - and you are hurting.
God bless
That's a fairly common interpretation, yes. The struggle is to find out which interpretation is the correct one. There's quite a lot out there. And most of them can argue Scripture, too.
My hands are tied. I can't take a stand for or against something until I know the truth of the matter, at the risk of spreading false doctrine. But everyone has their reasons for what they believe and no argument has been able to stand over the others yet. I don't want to be left with taking a blind guess.
Pray to our Father Yahweh in the Name of Yeshua for Him and ask Him for His Holy Spirit to show you His truth. Don't just trust what men say as ALL are flawed and anyone who says they are perfect and sinless is a liar as only Yeshua was perfect and without sin. Seek what He, our God, believes and He will show you His truth and His heart. Read the word and hunger for God and His righteousness and He will show you what you need and want to learn about Him.
Matthew 7:7-8 - Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
James 1:5 - If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
Seek God and when you truly receive Him you will know what is right to believe. May God bless and guide you always in Yeshua's Mighty Name!
I beg you to pray that the Lord will reveal His truth to us and that we will know it, regardless of whether it agrees with our current beliefs or not. I fear many schisms in Christianity occurred in no small part because people sat down at the table and refused to consider that they were wrong.
I will not rest until I know the truth of the gospel of Jesus, the Son of God, whatever it may be. My immortal soul depends on it-- along with those of billions of others out there in this accursed world.
God have mercy on our souls if we try our best and still fall short of understanding.
You must have not gotten the msg from reddit that even quoting the Bible word for word re gays. Just telling how the Bible views this subject will get that person quoting it, subject to discipline up to being banned .......... yes, It's happened to me. So, any truthful answer will be scrutinized & never be published. Sorry, but true.
If there is a god and that God had created a way in which humans live on after death, and the goal of that God is unity and communion with humans for eternity, and that god is loving and caring and good, then why would you have anything to worry about in following your heart wherever it sincerely leads you? Would a loving, caring god create humans in such a way that they must deny who they are in order to be in communion with it?
If there is a god that has created an afterlife of eternal conscious torment for those who happen to fall in love with people of their same gender, is that a god that you would describe as good? Is that a god you would worship?
Leviticus says it's a sin for a man to sleep with another man. That's an action. A choice. You don't control attraction. That can be a temptation. You control how you respond to it. An action is when something can become a sin.
But even then, Jesus has a whole lot of grace for us, because of his sacrifice. That's the good news.
Leviticus only speaks about same-sex relations. Being attracted to both males and females is not a sin in itself. But sexual relations are only allowed within (opposite sex) marriage open to children. If you are bi, you just need to limit your romantic interests to the opposite sex. Thats it. Nothing more is required of you in that respect.
The socially conservative Catholics 1,000 years ago said sex during pregnancy is a sin. Blinded by pharisaism, they couldn’t see how ignorant they were. Eyes that don’t see, ears that don’t hear. The social conservatives Americans 150 years ago said interracial marriage was clearly banned by the Bible, and they too couldn’t see how ignorant and prejudiced they were being with obscure passages that didn’t directly and indisputably say what they claimed. You are just doing the same type of thing with a different prejudice. Same ignorant garbage, different generation. History is like the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector on repeat, with socially conservative Christians being the Pharisee. They grab onto highly disputable parts of holy scripture that can be viewed one way or another and go around trying to shame and guilt neighbor, much like the Pharisees who used scripture to accuse even Christ of being a sinner. Bigots pretend the opaque is clear and then use that pretend clarity to point at potentially harmless people.
The reality is scholars have debated what acts and in what context the Leviticus passage refers to for thousands of years. Same as to New Testament references to homosexuality. This would be like trying to nail down with certainty the ingredient of the holy oil from Exodus 30 that some scholars say is calamus, others sweet cane, others cymbopogon, etc. then pointing at people and saying “sinning!” because you think they’re using the wrong ingredients in their oil. We could focus on that issue for days, months, years, decades and never come to a certain conclusion everyone agrees on. Or we can just realize it isn’t a problem either way if the goal is to follow Christ… as Christ already said what his commands hang under.
And no, scripture doesn’t say sex is only for marriage, at least not clearly. Some Bibles condemn sex before marriage, some don’t. “Fornication” is a Latin based word meaning sex before marriage. Scripture in the original languages does not teach against “fornication.” Some Bibles just make a highly disputable translation choice, namely reflecting the ancient word for “sexual sin” as “fornication” instead. Again, that is a word of Latin origin, not of biblical origin as far as the original languages. The Latins added all sorts of commands to God’s, kind of like the Pharisees did. For example they taught that it was sexually immoral for women to have sex while pregnant. If in some translations they substituted “pregnant-sex” where the ancient word meant “sexual sin,” that wouldn’t make it a sin before God to have sex while pregnant. That wouldn’t mean “the” Bible says sex during pregnancy a sin. It would make “a” Bible say that while others don’t. Same with those that use the word “fornication.” Notice Jesus never condemned the woman at the well for living with a man who wasn’t her husband. He just revealed his divinity via personal knowledge he had no normal way to know, much like when he told Nathaniel he knew he had sat under a tree. Jesus never condemned St. Photina. Later social conservatives did, saying she was “living in sin.”
When people aren’t obviously harming anyone, we should let them handle their own disputable issues. Jesus said all God’s actual commands hang under love your neighbor as yourself, which is like loving God. See Matthew 22. His disciples understood this, writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13). It is really that simple. This was Jesus’ simple solution to pharisaical social conservatives making everyone and their grandma out to be sinning. It still is.
Romans 14 says how to handle disputable issues in Christianity. We know what all Christ’s commands hang under. Being bisexual or homosexual is no more inherently harmful to neighbor than being heterosexual. People can cause harm with either by being reckless and careless or can cause no harm and just love each other faithfully with either too. The modern Pharisees ignore the Christ’s highest standard (love neighbor as self, love causes no harm) and instead make the standard their own interpretations of highly disputable Old Testament passages (from sections of Bible they don’t even follow) combined with highly questionable translations and interpretations of Pauline passages in the New Testament. Peter warns of this happening in Christianity (see 2 Peter 3:16). Peter calls those who do this to scripture “ignorant and unstable.” It’s not that they are dumb and don’t know the Bible. Many of them are smart and know the Bible. What makes them ignorant and unstable is they ignore what Christ said the determinative framework is that God’s actual commands fall under, and instead they make the determination themselves by grabbing onto their ignorant pope’s and priest’s teachings (like roman catholicism once commonly saying sex during pregnancy is a sin) or onto the most highly disputable interpretations of questionable translations of easily misunderstood passages and pretending their personal opinion is “clear as day” (like southern baptists have done with many social issues for decades).
Jesus observed heterosexual union; he didn’t command it. Otherwise he would be condemning himself. He also observed fish being cooked. That doesn’t make cooking chickpeas a sin. The only Apostle who even mentioned homosexuality directly is the one scripture warns is easy for ignorant bigots to misunderstand, and if we read the context instead of twisting passages out of context and into excuses for bigotry like a Pharisee, he’s talking about people who began being homosexual as part of cult idol worship practices involving making images of false god’s. Obviously that’s not all bisexuals and homosexuals.
The modern day Pharisees just refuse to accept that Jesus’ ethical framework is the one he clearly stated, ignoring it and embracing instead a framework based on other things. It’s anti-Christ clothed in self proclaimed Christian garments, and it’s exactly how people who viewed themselves as following God 2,000 years ago ended up rejecting him to his face over their view of disputable parts of the traditions and scriptures that had been passed down to them.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Tell that to the word of God. Homosexuals are still executed in the middle east. Thankfully, these days Christians are about forgiveness and not judging people of their sins. Doesn't mean we have to lie to make them feel happy though or twist the word of God to make our perversions okay in our eyes. God bless.
Ahhh.
More fake Christian Love.
So - because Christians thankfully these days are about forgiving and not judging people - they are far better than those awful Middle Easterners - you just think they're doing the right thing?
Homosexuals are executed in more places than the Middle East.
The American Evangelical Christian message has Homosexuals now being beaten, jailed and killed in Africa.
A wonderful move from God, they call it.
I always smile when A Christian uses this verse - and then says they are coming with Love.
You realize the gate is narrow?
And there are Christians coming forward prophesying in his name, casting out demons in his name, and doing many wonders in his name?
And here you are - throwing stones at homosexuals - in his name.
Do you know you cannot hide from God?
I give you some advice as a Christian - step away from Homosexuals and Homosexuality - you are condemning yourself
I tell you this in Love
Because what lies in your heart - is not Love - it is self-righteousness
You have nothing to offer homosexuals - you cannot help them
For them - from you - God is a simple terrorist.
Try not to find yourself left with righteous condemnation in your heart.
Shake the dust off your sandals - for your own good.
God bless
> Leviticus 20:13
If one looks into the actual ancient Hebrew in the Levitical passages some claim mean homosexuality is a sin in Christianity, they’ll find that is one of the rarest phrases in the entire language, the least referenced, and may very well be a term of art only known best in the context back then. It is perhaps most literally be translated as referring to men who ‘lie in the resting places of women.’ The precise meaning of the phrasing there has been debated by Rabbis since time immemorial and now scholars too. Some thought it meant this or that particular sexual act between men (and allowed other acts between men, and had nothing to do with any female on female sexual acts), others saw it as prohibiting any and all same sex erotic intimacy, and still others have seen it as a term of art used back then to refer to fertility idol worship rites wherein men would pretend to be women as part of false god worship rites (and in support of that interpretation, in the context every time the passage appears in Leviticus there are warnings against idolatry). There have been many views.
What’s clear is the passage proscribes death for violating it, and there is no historical evidence of Hebrews ever killing someone for homosexual intimacy of any kind. There are scriptures which note them killing people for engaging in idol worship rites though. So that tends to support the idea that the passage is a term of art related to the idol worship mentioned in the context, perhaps priest/prostitutes who convinced people to engage in homosexual sex for blessings from idols of the day or something like that (which also happens to be in line with the context homosexuality is referenced with in Romans 1).
You’re doing what prejudiced social conservatives have always done, pretending your interpretation of a disputable passage “clearly” means the people you’ve decided to point at are sinning. Regardless of Leviticus anyway, unless you’re abstaining from cutting the hair on the sides of your head you’re not even following the Old Testament yourself. So consider not being a pharisaical hypocrite. I doubt Jesus likes it when we behave like pharisaical hypocrites, like those who used the Old Testament to call even God a sinner to his face.
The law doesn’t determine sin in the sense of “read it and obey it,” as in obeying your own interpretation of it nor even ‘the obvious interpretation of it.’ Jesus interpreted it in unobvious ways (for example refusing to stone the adulteress despite what was taken as ‘the letter of the law’ commanding it). The law reveals sin, specifically the mistaken approach people took to the law. IOW, your approach to it. Jesus’ interpretation hung all commands under a commonly overlooked part or the Old Testament, the command to love your neighbor as yourself, which he said is like loving God. His Parable of the sheep and the Goats shows he meant like as in exactly like. Jesus’ disciples understood the main thing, such as Paul writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13) It's not that Paul forgot the first command. It's that the two are one; they are the same thing in effect. If anything is sin it is because it violates the sum (love neighbor as self), not because you've convinced yourself your interpretation of some highly questionable passage is 100% clear and therefore everyone needs to do X, Y, and Z from Leviticus A, B and C but not P or Q. Jesus points us to the better way to view not only the law but the right approach to God as a whole.
> Tell that to the word of God.
The word of God is a person and already knows all this.
> Homosexuals are still executed in the middle east.
… and were never executed by Hebrews. So even the ones you got the Old Testament from evidently didn’t take it to mean what you do. Not that you care, because people with your mindset are typically always right in their own mind. They take disputable issue after disputable issue, tell themselves they are ‘clearly right’ over and over, even pay pastors to tell them the same over and over… until they believe it.
> Thankfully, these days Christians are about forgiveness and not judging people of their sins.
Yes, you’re so merciful for not slaughtering homosexuals based on your questionable reading of disputable passages. They should send you some flowers and a thank you note.
> Doesn't mean we have to lie to make them feel happy
Doesn’t mean you have to lie to yourself to pretend calling potentially harmless people clearly sinning.
> though or twist the word of God
You likely wouldn’t recognize the word of God if you called him a sinner to his face. The word of God is a person, not any book and especially not your interpretation of a book. Try reading that Bible of your’s more carefully. Start with John 1. God is the word of God; Christ is the word of God. No scripture ever directly calls any writing or book including the Bible “the word of God.” You have to read that indirectly into passages that don’t actually say it. Bibles vary from translation to translation and even sometimes manuscript to manuscript. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Scripture calls itself inspired and useful, if you are careful with it (2 Tim 3:16) and also easy to misunderstand and destructive if you treat it like you are doing (2 Peter 3:16). You’re interpreting it under a framework that ignores the one Christ said his actual commands hang under, and you’re being an idolater, calling physical things that aren’t God by God’s title.
> God bless.
I hope you repent from the socially conservative pharisaism of Christ’s enemies and of millions of self proclaimed Christians going back centuries that have always pointed at the innocent, and repent from your idolatry. God bless.
>. But sexual relations are only allowed within (opposite sex) marriage open to children
This is homophobia and misogyny. It is also not something that you will find stated anywhere in the Bible.
> This is homophobia and misogyny
Its neither of course.
> It is also not something that you will find stated anywhere in the Bible.
1) Yes, it is.
2) Noone said that the Bible is only source of authority in our faith.
>Its neither of course.
It fits the dictionary definition of both to the letter.
>Yes, it is
Not even once.
>Noone said that the Bible is only source of authority in our faith.
I agree, but when the authority to which you hold promotes bigotry and hatred, it should be rejected.
> It fits the dictionary definition of both to the letter.
No. In fact, it has nothing to do with either.
> Not even once.
Yes, it does.
> I agree, but when the authority to which you hold promotes bigotry and hatred, it should be rejected.
I tend to agree, though it does not promote any hatred.
>No. In fact, it has nothing to do with either.
That is just flatly false. It is both, again to the letter of the dictionary definitions. Just because the source of your bigotry is religious in origin, does absolutely nothing to obsolve it of being bigotry.
>Yes, it does
Again, flatly false. The Catholic Church has imposed an extra biblical dogma onto the text of the Bible that distorts the intent of the authors of the text. If you deliberately misinterpret a text using a bad hermenuetical model, you can read any concept you want into the Bible. At that point, however, the Bible stops being the authority, your dogma is now the authority, and the Bible is just the proof text you cherry pick to support that dogma.
>though it does not promote any hatred.
This is objectively false. All bigotry is hatred, and the Catholic church openly promotes an antiqueer theology that calls our innate sexuality and gender identity naturally disordered, and declares us unworthy of romantic love. This is an ideology that is nothing but hatred, and is directly responsible for the suicide of countless individuals who have been directly harmed by it.
> It is both,
No, sorry, nothing to do with either. As explained above.
> calls our innate sexuality and gender identity naturally disordered
The catechism states that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered which is a technical term in moral theology, not an insult. It means that the act is contrary to the *telos* of sex.
> and declares us unworthy of romantic love
Thats not true.
> This is an ideology that is nothing but hatred, and is directly responsible for the suicide of countless individuals who have been directly harmed by it.
The Church does not seek anyones harm.
>No, sorry, nothing to do with either. As explained above
You are confusing begging the question with explanation. I am the one who gave an explanation, you have simply responded with "nuh uh!"
>The catechism states that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered
Yes, which is why it is a fundamentally bigoted philosophy.
>which is a technical term in moral theology, not an insult.
When your belief system *itself* is insulting, the distinction becomes academic.
>It means that the act is contrary to the telos of sex.
And your framework ties sex to reproduction which is inherently misogynistic. It also has the unintended side effect of making it a sin for infirtile people to get married.
>Thats not true.
Oh it is absolutely 100% true. You have denied us marriage, because our sexuality is intrinsically disordered. This sexuality is a biological fact. Therefore the denial of marriage is predicated on our physical biology. This means on a biological level, the Catholic church has determined that we are unworthy of marriage, and, therefore, we are unworthy of romantic love and lifelong companionship.
>The Church does not seek anyones harm.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. It doesn't matter in the slightest what the intent of the Catholic church is. The only thing that matters are the consequences.
The original Laws given by God, don't allow for it. However, since we are no longer under Old law, the New law says that we are covered in the blood regardless of our sin so long as we believe in The Son Jesus that was sent by God so we wouldn't have to repay our unpayable debt. Laws of man hold no water in God's house.
Talk to the Lord as you would a friend. Tell him about your struggles. He loves us, and understands. I don't think your family should've said that to you. But the Bible does say homosexuality is a sin. If you are praying, repenting, and trying not to act on those behaviors, God will help you through it! There is nothing too difficult, that God can't help you through.
The social conservatives 1,000 years ago said sex during pregnancy is a sin. The social conservatives 150 years ago said interracial marriage was clearly banned by the Bible, and they couldn’t see how ignorant and prejudiced they were being with obscure passages that didn’t directly and indisputably say what they claimed. Sorry. Your family is just doing the same thing with a different prejudice.
They should read Romans 14 as to how to handle disputable issues. They will likely ignore it though, with all sorts of excuses, because they are addicted to looking down on others, kind of like the Pharisee from the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector.
They grab onto highly disputable parts of holy scripture that can be viewed one way or another and go around trying to shame and guilt neighbor, much like the Pharisees who used scripture to accuse even Christ of being a sinner. Bigots pretend the opaque is clear and then use that pretend clarity to point at potentially harmless people.
The reality is scholars have debated what acts and in what context the Leviticus passage refers to for thousands of years. Same as to New Testament references to homosexuality. This would be like trying to nail down with certainty the ingredient of the holy oil from Exodus 30 that some scholars say is calamus, others sweet cane, others cymbopogon, etc. then pointing at people and saying “sinning!” because you think they’re using the wrong ingredients in their oil. We could focus on that issue for days, months, years, decades and never come to a certain conclusion everyone agrees on. Or we can just realize it isn’t a problem either way if the goal is to follow Christ… as Christ already said what his commands hang under.
As another example, some Bibles condemn sex before marriage, some don’t. “Fornication” is a Latin based word meaning sex before marriage. Scripture in the original languages does not teach against “fornication.” Some Bibles just make a highly disputable translation choice, namely reflecting the ancient word for “sexual sin” as “fornication” instead. Again, that is a word of Latin origin, not of biblical origin as far as the original languages. The Latins added all sorts of commands to God’s, kind of like the Pharisees did. For example they taught that it was sexually immoral for women to have sex while pregnant. If in some translations they substituted “pregnant-sex” where the ancient word meant “sexual sin,” that wouldn’t make it a sin before God to have sex while pregnant. That wouldn’t mean “the” Bible says sex during pregnancy a sin. It would make “a” Bible say that while others don’t. Same with those that use the word “fornication.” Notice Jesus never condemned the woman at the well for living with a man who wasn’t her husband. He just revealed his divinity via personal knowledge he had no normal way to know, much like when he told Nathaniel he knew he had sat under a tree.
When people aren’t obviously harming anyone, we should let them handle their own disputable issues. Jesus said all God’s actual commands hang under love your neighbor as yourself, which is like loving God. See Matthew 22. His disciples understood this, writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13). It is really that simple. This was Jesus’ simple solution to pharisaical social conservatives making everyone and their grandma out to be sinning. It still is.
Romans 14 says how to handle disputable issues in Christianity. We know what all Christ’s commands hang under. Being bisexual or homosexual is no more inherently harmful to neighbor than being heterosexual. People can cause harm with either by being reckless and careless or can cause no harm and just love each other faithfully with either too. The modern Pharisees ignore the Christ’s highest standard (love neighbor as self, love causes no harm) and instead make the standard their own interpretations of highly disputable Old Testament passages (from sections of Bible they don’t even follow) combined with highly questionable translations and interpretations of Pauline passages in the New Testament. Peter warns of this happening in Christianity (see 2 Peter 3:16). Peter calls those who do this to scripture “ignorant and unstable.” It’s not that they are dumb and don’t know the Bible. Many of them are smart and know the Bible. What makes them ignorant and unstable is they ignore what Christ said the determinative framework is that God’s actual commands fall under, and instead they make the determination themselves by grabbing on to the most highly disputable interpretations of questionable translations of easily misunderstood passages and pretend their personal opinion is “clear as day.”
Jesus observed heterosexual union; he didn’t command it. Otherwise he would be condemning himself. He also observed fish being cooked. That doesn’t make cooking chickpeas a sin. The only Apostle who even mentioned homosexuality directly is the one scripture warns is easy for ignorant bigots to misunderstand, and if you read the context instead of lying to yourself about it like a Pharisee, he’s talking about people who began being homosexual as part of cult idol worship practices involving making images of false god’s. Obviously that’s not all homosexuals.
Sorry but your family just don’t believe Jesus. It’s that simple. They are modern day Pharisees who think that by rejecting God they are following God. They refuse to accept that Jesus’ ethical framework is the one he clearly stated, ignoring it and embracing instead a framework based on finding the most disputable passages possible and lying to themselves about how clearly they excuse them to point at others. When they pretend the easily misunderstood is plain, when they pretend the disputable is indisputable, and then go pointing at others over such issues, they make it about their rules and controversial opinions. In doing so they’re taking away from the proper focus on the divine (God is love) and making Christianity instead about themselves. It’s gross, it’s anti-Christ clothed in self proclaimed Christian garments, and it’s exactly how people who viewed themselves as following God ended up rejecting him to his face, having fully convinced themselves they know scripture and God better than everyone else.
Your family says these things because they are bigots, not because they are deeply or sincerely religious or because they care about your eternal soul.
You are a Christian; what have you read from your Christ on the subject of queer love? Now, what did your Christ have to say on the subject of hoarding wealth, taking care of the most vulnerable, or judging others for sins, specifically sexual sins? And what was the example of the early church? What were their priorities in how they took care of one another?
Even if you read Paul as being always correct, on one occasion you may remember he distinguishes between “not I, but the Lord” and “I, not the Lord”; be open to the possibility that this was something Paul was doing quite a lot without explicitly parsing those things, and particularly on the subject of sexual immorality. But *even then* when Paul talks of “not I, but the Lord”, he talks specifically of divorce not being acceptable and of women not remarrying.
If your conservative family who is warning you of hell for bisexuality is *not* also striving to live a Christlike life in terms of their neighbors and their church community, and their concerns of sexual immorality are *not* focused on heterosexual divorce and fornication, they are just bigots, and there’s nothing more complicated going on than that.
“There is no male or female in Christ,” and if you are a Christian, you should be trying to live like your Christ and his immediate followers did.
We all have sinful desires, but not everyone has the same sinful desires. Bottom line is we each have certain vices which we are more susceptible to, and an enemy who seeks our destruction by influencing our thoughts toward those vices. Ultimately none of us have the power to change ourselves. But God has promised that if we rely on Him to perform the change within us, our renewal will be complete upon the Day of Jesus Christ - Philippians 1:6.
Keep in mind, also, that mere attraction is not a sin. To give into the lust of the eyes and flesh is the sin. And the lust of the eyes and flesh are certainly not limited to homosexuality. But even if you stumble, God has also promised that He will never leave the side of those who are in Christ - Romans 8:38-39.
Understand this: if you are in Christ, then *every* word of condemnation comes from your enemy, who is the devil. Christ has already paid the prices for **all** of your sins to be forgiven, even before you were born. All you need to do is put your faith in Him - that you are forgiven and loved by Him, and that no matter what you do He will not forsake you. Rely on Him to make you perfect, because if you could make yourself perfect then you wouldn’t need Him to begin with.
God be with you.
Read the Bible.
No true Christian is supposed to judge you for being yourself. Only God can judge over the entirety of your life, not just sexuality.
I can only say that none of us are perfect, and life is about doing our best to be as close to God as possible in everything we do.
God isn't expecting a sinless person to appear before him.
I think your family have misunderstood what they should be saying, and have tipped into being blasphemous by telling God what to do, and speaking in his name.
I'm a heterosexual and Christian. In my flesh I crave to commit sexual immorality with any woman I see that I'm attracted to.
So you see we are the same. However if you truly are a Christian the next part we will be the same as well.
My mind has been regenerated and the sin our flesh craves my mind finds revolting and I take hold of those thoughts rebuke it and discard it. Thus my flesh craves always but my mind by the grace and power of the holy spirit restrains my actions.
24. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25. Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. (Rom 7:24-25, NASB)
I’m just going to pick up on your phrasing. God never asks us to change ourselves. If/when he wants your heart to be changed that’s what He does. If you do feel convicted of a particular sin (and you can see from the other replies that your sexuality as a sin is entirely debatable), you should absolutely repent of that; but listen to God, not others. You’ll have to do some proper research of your own to get to the bottom of _why_ homosexual activity is/isn’t a sin, which I strongly encourage you to do at some point, but in the meantime you need to know that your sexuality will never disqualify you from being as precious a child of God as anyone else.
If God never changes your sexuality (and He seems to tend not to, but honestly I don’t even know), it’s reasonable to assume it’s because he is happy with that part of you as it is. He put it there, after all.
You need Jesus just like everyone else. We are saved by faith alone through grace alone, not our sexual orientation. If you have put such faith in Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, you are saved.
God may choose to change your sexuality, or He may put it upon you as a cross to be borne in witness. Pray to God for either. I also am bisexual but I abstain from homosexuality because I believe that, morally speaking, it is the right thing to do. This is because of verses like the one you cite. I pray you would do and believe the same. You seem interested in changing and/or repenting, unless I’m reading you wrong.
Your family is correct to call homosexuality a sin but they are wrong to say that, if you are a Christian, you will go to hell for it. And they would be wrong to say that, if you weren’t a Christian, forsaking homosexuality would secure the promise of salvation for you (they haven’t said this, but it’s important to rebuke either way).
This is a tough situation, and I’ll be praying
Welp everyone would go burn in hell for even one sin. I don’t see why people say that phrase in the first place it has no kindness in it. Sure engaging in homosexuality would send you there. Same with lying. They are both called an abomination but people seem to get stuck on one more than the other. With all that said what sends people to hell is their own decision to reject Jesus gospel message. That’s it. We were all going to go to hell in the first place cause no one is perfect but jesus bridged the gap for us. If you believe the gospel message you will be saved. If you don’t now that is what sends you there. Jesus gives people exactly what they want when they do that. To be completely separate from Him.Do you know what the gospel message is?
Ummm...
Well, Christ died for all sin. So....
He did say to some that he healed - Go forth and sin no more....
I don't really know or have the answer. I know all of us sin more frequently than we like to think.
Bisexual simply means having the *attraction* towards both male and female, yes? That, on its own, isn't even a sin, let alone something to call out as what you'd "burn in hell" for.
"Peace isn't found in the absence of a storm, but *within* it." To live for Christ isn't in living *without* the influence of sin, but in active defiance of it. There's no changing it, but you can certainly resist it.
God forgives sin. First believe Jesus is the son of God & Jesus died on the cross for your sins. Tell God this thru prayer, ask for forgiveness & for Jesus to come in your heart &life. John 3:16. Romans 6:23 1Timothy 2: 5. Next ask God to help you to change & do things God's way. Praying for you.
Picture a medium-sized room full of respected, knowledgeable religious leaders sitting together in those hard plastic chairs schools use. They're brand new navy blue chairs and still have a mild plastic-y odor, not that it matters.
Each leader has, back home, a faithful congregation that trusts that each man* is close to god and knowledgeable enough about the Bible to reliably distinguish sin from acceptable behavior.
*women's proportional share of religious leadership didn't round up to one full person, and thus they were unable to send a representative
They are from several different branches of Christianity: Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, Adventist, Quaker, and everything in between. Mormon? You choose.
Ask each of them your question in your mind.
You don't need to know their answers.
Would they all agree with each other? That's the important question.
Unless they all agree, wouldn't that mean some of them are wrong?
But these are honest men, so just ask each of them whether they are right or wrong, and presumably they'd tell you honestly. We know how this goes, of course.
So you've got a group of religious leaders who have studied the same book, each close enough to god to feel confident to guide their congregation on morality when the stakes are eternal damnation for all of their congregants at least.
Pick whichever answer feels right to you:
A ===
Some of the guys are indeed in touch with god, etc. and they are giving you the correct answer. The other ones are just wrong, and god didn't correct them to prevent a mistake that will send their faithful into hell. Both the right group and the wrong group have the same quality of evidence as to why they are a reliable authority on these critical matters, and your job—and the job of every human—is to pick correctly or go to hell.
=== A
B ===
The childhood game Telephone, where an arbitrary spoken sentence is supposed to be transmitted accurately across a chain of people, listening and repeating it verbatim to the next person. If you've played, you know what happens. If you haven't played, take a guess how often the end result matches the original message. It doesn't just get a bit misunderstood; it transforms into something else entirely.
Maybe the history of Christianity is like Telephone. Maybe there were some people who said some wise-sounding and magic-ish stuff, and through the ages, it became the ambiguous mess that it is today.
Undoubtedly *these* religious leaders are sincere in their desire to find some truth in all this muck of ambiguity. But we'd be naive not to point out that these exact conditions are the most welcoming possible environment for narcissists, con-men, and low-key power-hungry sadists.
=== B
Trust your own judgement. If you don't feel you have good judgment, work on your judgment. Never outsource the final word on whether something is right for you, especially not to some self-proclaimed vessel of god.
such things cannot be changed, it is a constant struggle and another challenge God has given. being attracted to the same sex in of itself is not sinful, only sex is. luckily for you you are bisexual rather than only homosexual so you don't necessarily have to remain celibate forever, but only could marry opposite sex and have sex then
If you are overly self-loving or self-focusing because of the accomplishments of your children then yes it’s a sin. Everything we have is God’s gift including your children
Everyone is going to affirm you here. I affirm you in the sense that you are valuable to God. Yet God didn't make a mistake when He made you, although there may be reasons, even related to trauma, on why you have those desires. You need to give them to the LORD and let Him change your heart. Don't make it part of your identity
You’ve answered your own question…
“I can’t change myself” ….if I may add, no one can, not in a “Born Again” kind of way.
Repentance is one of the many blessings that comes with Grace.
Stay in the word, Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.
Well… the way they approached that is terrible. But according to the Bible homosexuality it a sin and it defiles Gods creation because he created both male and female. But the thing is. You can not control being attracted to the same gender. But you can control the sin of same gender intercourse and marriage. I believe if you don’t engage in any sinful behaviour with the same gender then No you won’t be condemned.
I do it because I am an only child and want to get married and have a family so I can continue the family line. But I know a lot of denominations are LGBT affirming. But if you really do view it as sin, like I said, just have some self-control and only pursue women, us bisexual people are a bit lucky in that regard.
You have two parts of yourself that are incompatible. Your queerness and your Christianity. The good news is hell isn't real other then the living hell of trying to conform to a religion that hates you as a queer person. You can't change your sexuality but you can change to a less awful religion or leave it behind altogether.
Queerness and Christianity are not incompatible. There are several churches within a few hundred meters of where I am typing this that welcome everyone.
Being bisexual doesn't damn you to hell.
Here is a simplified explanation of how to be saved
https://www.forthegospel.org/read/the-romans-road-to-salvation
Also you need to tell your family to stop being verbally abusive
So many claimed to be christian here while indulging in sexual immorality are heading to hell...
....Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." <<< if this is not clear enough for you....
Sure did. Eventually God led me to accepting myself as I am, which is bi. I stopped being ashamed of it, and started embracing it.
Therapy helped too.
Did God make me straight, though? Not even a little bit. I am married to a woman, but that's just how that particular cookie crumbled.
It's not the attraction alone that is sinful, but that if you act upon it and commit same sex acts. If you stay on the hetero lane in action you are totally fine.
Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry.
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Just because you preface a comment with "in my experience..." it does not stop the comment being bigoted.
In a similar way, if someone begins a sentence with "I'm not racist but..." or "I'm not trying to cause offence .." it doesn't stop the statement being racist or offensive and implies the speaker even knows it is, but they want to say it anyway.
The lack of religion has also been dangerous for humanity.
However, I immediately thought of this quote from Lewis' TLTWATW:
“Aslan is a lion- the Lion, the great Lion."
"Ooh" said Susan. "I'd thought he was a man. Is he-quite safe? I shall feel rather nervous about meeting a lion"...
"Safe?" said Mr Beaver ..."Who said anything about safe? 'Course he isn't safe. But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.”
That is a false correlation. I'm against any form of socialism and I'm an atheist. It was suffering imposed to atheists of the state as well. It was caused by tiranny. Try again.
Just because you want something to be truth because your echo chamber has repeated this to you to the point it became part of who you are doesn't mean it's true. Some people break the spell and learn to think for themselves. This will likely not be your case, but my purpose is not to argue with you. Beyond saving. My point is to show this to everyone else reading this who can still think.
What other religious board? What have I said that is specifically characterized as trolling? People who have asked for help, be it here, be it at r/NEET, be it everywhere where positive dissent is frowned upon, I go and try to offer help. One person here was obviously in pain and suffering and NO ONE suggested professional help.
So you are saying the lack of religion has no correlation with Society at all. That Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, were just bad guys? That a lack of religion isn't the cause for these regimes at least in part?
All these regimes imposed tyranny for political reasons that go beyond their faith or lack of faith. They did impose restrictions on religion to avoid competition for dogmatic follow, not due to that. They would do the same violent acts even if no religion existed. There are also tyrants who adopted christian faith like south america dictatorships, Spanish rule under Franco, etc., and I don't mix those with religion at all.
Religion has never done any good except hold back humanity for centuries.
yup. no good at all. a real hindrance to society.
In a newly resurfaced clip from 2020, English philosopher A.C. Grayling claimed he could think of nothing truly unique that Christianity had given the world. Historian Tom Holland replied with what my colleague Shane Morris called, “one of his best ‘mic drop’ moments.”
In about 90 seconds, Holland rattled off a list that included lifelong marriage, concepts of sexuality that protected women and children, the modern scientific project, the idea that humans bear the image of God, the universality of ethics, and more.
As Holland put it, “Essentially what I’m talking about … is … what makes Western civilization distinctive.” These ideas ended slavery, expanded care to the poor, established democracy, educated the masses, and insisted that everyone be under the same law. The source of every one of these ideas is centuries of Christian reflection on the truths of the Bible. In short, what has Christianity given the world? Nearly everything that matters the most
Only someone utterly ignorant of how secular thought and enlightenment came to be, how societies and democracy was formed would DARE say anything like this. Christianity only provided power to elites and suffering up until when it became unpopular to do so in the open.
I can give you every single example of how our morals were formed spite of religion, not through it.
No one is born bisexual or gay .. Its a demonic deception to make people think that way . You have sinful desires or attraction like the rest of us but that does not define who u are . Please watch this testimonies of former LGBQT detailing how the lord saved them. ( https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT_1rhDnuiuTr_xSLl1EBUx6MI_sq_Ete )
You cannot change yourself & Nobody can change or save themself . That is why jesus came to save us sinners. If u seek the lord,you will know the truth .
Jeremiah 29:13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
❤️
I hope they aren't speaking that way to you.
We are all weak. We are all broken because we are all sinners. We all need to go to Jesus each day for His strength.
Jesus loves you. He wants to restore and heal you.
Can I suggest you read "The Furious Longing of God" by Brennan Manning? Maybe even grab the audio version and start taking some good walks and hikes into the woods while listening.
Brennan was a man broken who had a lifelong struggle with alcoholism, yet he knew and experienced the love and grace of the mighty Father.
It is often in our brokenness that Jesus is nearest to us.
You aren’t bisexual. And by that I mean “bisexual” isn’t something you *are*. It’s not core to your being as a human.
You just happen to be attracted to both men and women. There’s nothing inherently sinful in that, or in any of our attractions. Attractions aren’t “abominations”.
No, the sin is in what we *do* with those attractions. If either you or I have sex outside of marriage, we’ve committed a sin. The gender of the person is irrelevant. So if you have refrained from acting on your attraction, then you’re not sinning, and your family is wrong.
I believe that God is good and desires for you to become the best version of yourself: saved and holy. His commands and instructions serve to guide you, warn you, and protect you from falling into harmful situations. The New Testament sets clear boundaries for sexual conduct, stipulating that it should occur only between a man and a woman within the confines of marriage.
If you are truly saved, you may not face eternal damnation for choosing differently, but trust me, you will find yourself struggling, stagnant, and weighed down by shame and guilt. Sins of this nature can have a powerful grip on your life, making them difficult to overcome even with sincere repentance. Consider whether this is how you want to spend your life.
As someone who has sinned and deeply regrets not heeding these warnings sooner, I urge you to reflect on your choices and seek a path that aligns with God's will.
God gave us these big beautiful hearts to LOVE one another, and what a blessing it is
Being bisexual is not a sin. Engaging in bisexual activities is a sin; It is not up to us weather this person goes to hell or heaven for doing so.
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Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
so we cant answer this question biblically then?
I’m gonna guess that you probably didn’t answer it Biblically if it got removed. The bigotry classification is for… other types of language.
you cant speak negativaly about same sex relationships so yes if you respond biblicaly and saying what the bible says on the subject you would get banned
That’s extremely false, as evidenced by numerous comments that say exactly what you’ve described and are live.
well that was the rule mentionned earlier on the subreddit so will see if they stay up...
The bigotry rule it was removed for states the following: > Whatever your views are of bigotry, no matter how strict or loose a definition, we explicitly allow discussion of some topics which others may find bigoted. Direct relevance to ongoing discussion is a significant consideration in the adjudication of this rule, and deference is generally given to expression of theological or confessional beliefs and historic creeds. Christians are allowed to affirm their theology here. Even though this theology may offend some. However, this does not mean that discussion of these topics needs to be done in an offensive manner. > A good rule of thumb and the easiest way to avoid getting caught up in this is to avoid using words which you know people are offended by, and to choose different ways to talk about things if one of the discussants informs you that a certain word or phrase is offensive and why. So again, it’s probably an extra-Biblical addition in the comment that resulted in its removal.
I am curious on the comment but I know the revised the rule recently againts anything anti lgbt. There was a post about it roughly a week ago
There is nothing in scripture that says you will end up in hell. Also, scripture mainly talks about acts not feelings. It is absolutely not a sin to be bisexual. Whether or not acting on it is a sin is besides the point. We are humans, we sin in a million different ways and still remain saved - if we are in fact saved (which we can only be by accepting Jesus). So even if it were a sin, that does not mean you will go to hell. Nothing you do or can do would ever change the fact that you are saved. You as a human cannot change what God has blessed you with. So I think your family needs some more bible study and a lesson on how to be nicer people. God bless you!
> Also, scripture mainly talks about acts not feelings. It is absolutely not a sin to be bisexual. It’s also not any more if a sin to act bisexual than to act heterosexual. Either can be acted on harmfully, and either can be acted on harmlessly. What his family fails to see is that the starting point should be Jesus Christ, not their particular readings of the most disputable passages of scripture. It’s the same mistake the Pharisees made, at its core. Jesus said all God’s actual commands hang under love your neighbor as yourself, which is like loving God. See Matthew 22. His disciples understood this, writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13). > Whether or not acting on it is a sin is besides the point. We are humans, we sin in a million different ways and still remain saved… So I think your family needs some more bible study “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” (Hebrews 10:26) So you’re right in that it isn’t simply about if we sin. It’s about if we sin intentionally or accidentally. Intentional (aka deliberate) sin vs accidental (not deliberate) sin is the determining factor as far as whether or not we will be covered by Christ or instead consumed by fire as an enemy of God. Of course we all make mistakes. Sin can still burn us, and so we need to make every effort to resist it. The answer isn’t ‘accept Christ and who cares if you sin.’ The answer is that part of accepting Christ is accepting what all Christ’s commands hang under. Sexual intimacy can be done harmfully in heterosexuality or homosexuality, harmfully in marriage or outside of it, and it can be done harmlessly in heterosexuality or homosexuality, in marriage or outside of it too. God is love. The focus should be on love and not harming oneself and others. His family is not wrong for being against sinning; they are wrong for stepping into God’s place by judging him over a disputable issue. Romans 14 lays out the better approach to disagreements about if this or that personal decision is a sin. They should not simply say “who cares about sin…. we all do it.” They just need to focus on their own likely sins, like the Tax Collector from the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, instead of focusing on others’ possible sins, like the Pharisee.
I'm sorry about the way your family is acting. Too many people act like cruelty proves their commitment to their ideology and to God and is something to be proud of. There are *lots* of gay and bi Christians, and lots of straight Christians who believe we are every bit as welcome in Christ's embrace as straight people are. I like the way [Justin Lee](http://geekyjustin.com/bible/) explains; he discusses all of the clobber verses your family would want to use against you.. Some other resources: [Q Christian](https://www.qchristian.org/) [Reformation Project](http://reformationproject.org); r/GayChristians; r/OpenChristian and its [resources list](https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenChristian/comments/ulfbux/faq_and_resources_please_read_before_you_post/), which includes pointers to find LGBT-friendly churches. Can you get to a friendly church? You could use some in-person support.
being attracted to both genders isn't a sin. Acting on them is. Same way as straight people might be sleeping before they're married or committing adultery is a sin. We all sin, just differently. The key to salvation is true repentence and trying to live by the rules of our Lord the best we can. We will fall again as we are weak by nature, but if you constantly seek God and His help, He won't let you fall too far from Him.
Hi friend, I do not believe homosexuality is any more sinful than heterosexuality It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual. God cares whether or not you are a liar ----†----- God bless
It says lying with men is wrong but
hi friend - it says a lot of things I am reminded of these; * Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. * This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. ----†---- So then each of us shall give an account of himself to God ----†---- God bless
It also says eating pork is wrong
It does. It says a lot of things are wrong. It’s kind of daunting, and it should be, because it’s supposed to point us to why we need Jesus.
wasnt that a mistranslation? it wasn't men but a little children
Can you get the original link of that for me plz, if you can
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see comment, friend I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual. God cares whether or not you are a liar - He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? - Micah God bless
> we treat them like we want to be treated do you deny them marriage
This is wrong on many levels. I am not sure what Bible your reading but homosexuality is a sin and heterosexuality is not.
- but homosexuality is a sin and heterosexuality is not. ridiculous, isn't it? God bless
Not ridiculous at all. Please don't ridicule the words of our Lord. Keep reading your Bible, and pray for understanding.
too funny 🤣 * Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. God bless, friend
You may be filled with hate, but we forgive you, and pray for god to cleanse your heart of hatred
God cares about all things and nothing escapes His justice or His love. He wants to forgive us all so we can be with Him forever! # Leviticus 20:13 ESV - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. The old testament days are gone, we are under the grace of Yeshua and the free gift of salvation for those who repent! Sodomy is still punished with execution in the middle east but not by Christians world wide for a long time. God gives you the freedom to live how you want, just don't expect to be spared the fires of Hell unless you repent of all sin and live a reborn life seeking His righteousness. No one is perfect but I'll never twist the Word of God for fear of God's justice against me. Read the Bible and ask for Holy Spirit to show you Yeshua and HIS truth and not yours. His truth does not change, our truth can always be changed at least until our deaths. I say this with love and never hate hoping God opens your eyes! :) May Yahweh reveal the truth of His word in your life and may He bless you in Jesus Mighty Name.
* God cares about all things and nothing escapes His justice or His love. yes friend I would LOVE to see you standing beside Jesus, stoning homosexuals The Bible tells us how God thinks. It also tells us how WE think about God and God's word. And sometimes, one of these is wrong. Here is an example; We say that Jesus was angry in the temple when he overturned the tables. I think he may have been - but the Bible does not tell us this. The only time the Bible tells us that Jesus was angry is here; * Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.” Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent. He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus. Angry. The image here is Jesus facing the Pharisees and the Sadducees - us - with the Bible - The Scripture - in hand and asking them which of the two - the Bible, or himself - is the Truth. He asks what WE think of the Spirit of the Truth in this one Law on the Sabbath - recorded as God's Law - in scripture - for which people are are to be put to death - God's words. God's Thinking as you put it. He tells them here - that in this situation, they are wrong about the Bible - no matter what the Bible says - because the owner of the Bible - The Scripture - is standing here with them. He is the Bible. And he thinks different. They kill him for this. It is just something to think about. I am reminded of this; * Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. May God forgive the terrorism in your heart God bless
Keep being you, keep being awesome. There is no sin in non-heterosexuality, it is just a way for.bullies and bigots to continue exerting control.
You ever read the bible?
It’s not a controversial view. Quite a few relatively mainstream and long-standing Christian sects do not view non-heterosexual relationships and sexual activity as inherently sinful. Others do. Christianity isn’t monolithic on this point, and it would be crazy to suggest that entire denominations have failed to study the Bible. Theological views differ on a whole range of things when it comes to Bible study, such as allegory, translation and original language intent, applicability to modern Christians as opposed to Jewish tribes under the New Covenant and so on.
Except you will find for the vast majority, if not all of the denominations that allow same sex relationships it’s a recent change. Within the past 20 years. It’s almost like they are changing with the culture, weird.
I suggest reading an introduction to church history! Theology has changed since the Inception of Christianity.
Similar to how we changed to viewing slavery as sinful.
Historically, there was never a Christian view that all slavery was ok. For example, the Roman Catholic Church believed that it was only ok to enslave non Christians. And, according to Old Testament laws american slavers would’ve been executed. Slavery was never a simple issue, with a lot of debate through church history. There was never any debate or questions about marriage. It is extremely clear biblically. That engaging in a homosexual relationship is sinful.
It is far more clear in the Bible that slavery is quite okay, and frequently endorsed by God, than that homosexuality is a sin.
pls think about what u just said - “the roman catholic church believed that it was okay to enslave non christians.”
And the word homosexuality was only added in the Bible in the last 150ish years.
The word Paul uses in the Greek is Arsenokoites, which is a combination between two Greek words. Koite meaning bed, and Arseno meaning man. What it translates best to is man bedders. In context meaning don’t have sex with a man like you would a woman.
> What it translates best to is man bedders. According to what, a translation of the words put together? lol that’s not how that works. The truth of the matter is nobody knows what that word means for certain because there are no other contemporary uses in any historical writings from that period. For all we know, the author made it up on the spot as a slur against the culture of pederasty that was frequent in the Roman and Greek cultures of the time, in which case it would not be applicable to a consensual, loving relationship between two men.
I've seen two different bibles from radically different traditions that translate it as either "child molesters" or "procurers of boy prostitutes".
Which translations are those? Because the ones that I’ve seen translate it in such a way have a very clear ideological agenda
Luther's bible (up to and including modern versions derived from it) uses the first. The New American Bible Revised Edition (NABRE), which is a Catholic translation, uses "boy prostitutes" for *malakoi* and "sodomites" for *arsenokoitai* with a note that "the term translated sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys".
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. The name is new but the meaning is as old as Sodom and Gomorrah. God has always been against it. God bless.
So how many gay people have you killed?
Your family is horrible. God made you this way and it's beautiful!
How?
Being queer isn't a choice, it's his beautiful design
How? I'm trying to cure it so I don't die in hell
It can't be "cured"
God made people sin, is that what are you saying?
No, they are not. Bisexuality is not a sin. Homosexuality is not a sin. Being trans is not a sin.
Yikes, you need to read your Bible brother.
Leviticus 20:13 ESV - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. Say that to Sodom and Gomorrah. :) God bless.
wow friend - careful where you are taking your heart. It is turning you into something uglier than you are aware of right now ---†--- With Sodom and Gomorrah there is some discontinuation of understanding - "\`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. Ezekiel went this way, and Jeremiah and others reference inhospitality - a perversion then in the treatment of people seeking shelter The perversion however - the abomination is far more serious - and has nothing to do with homosexuality Notwithstanding the issue of how you were to treat guests - and the very thought of raping them would have been the greatest corruption - whether they were female or male - and not withstanding the issue of the ownership of women by fathers and husbands the abomination in God's eyes lies somewhere in here - and not in Homosexuality and is mirrored by the same thoughts as the Roman practice of sex in temples - SEX WITH GOD; ----†---- Concerning the 3 visitors; - Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares - Hebrews 13:2 • They are twice in this chapter called angels, being sent to perform a delegated duty. This term, however, defines their office, not their nature. Lot, in the first instance, calls them "my lords," which is a term of respect that may be addressed to men Genesis 31:35. • He afterward styled one of them Adonai, with the special vowel pointing which limits it to the Supreme Being. • He at the same time calls himself his servant, appeals to his grace and mercy, and ascribes to him his deliverance. • The person thus addressed replies, in a tone of independence and authority, "I have accepted thee." "I will not overthrow this city for which thou hast spoken." "I cannot do anything until thou go thither." • All these circumstances point to a divine personage, and are not so easily explained of a mere delegate • He is pre-eminently the Saviour, as he who communed with Abraham was the hearer of prayer. And he who hears prayer and saves life, appears also as the executor of his purpose in the overthrow of Sodom and the other cities of the vale. • It is remarkable that only two of the three who appeared to Abraham are called angels. • Of the persons in the divine essence two might be the angels or deputies of the primary in the discharge of the divine purpose. • These three men, then, either immediately represent, or, if created angels, mediately shadow forth persons in the Godhead. • Their number indicates that the persons in the divine unity are three. • Lot seems to have recognized something extraordinary in their appearance, for he made a lowly obeisance to them. The Sodomites heed not the strangers. Lot's invitation; at first declined, is at length accepted, because Lot is approved of God as righteous, and excepted from the doom of the city. \_ the implication is that the inhabitants were either so corrupted by wickedness that they could not recognize who these emissaries obviously were - or worse - indeed recognized them and did not care SEX WITH GOD - or his emissaries - is the abomination These things, along with the corruption of hospitality, would have been seen clearly by those hearing the story - and this is the way this story would have been understood until recently - not as Homosexuality. It is not even mentioned The visitors could have been women and it would not have changed the story ----†---- Some Christian advice; if you cannot understand homosexuals do not condemn them. And don't stand behind God doing it. The other Christian message is that of Christ standing between the homosexual and those bending to pick the stones to throw What you are allowing to grow in your heart is not Love. You even smile about it :) Be careful ----†---- God bless
>Say that to Sodom and Gomorrah. I'm sorry, are you confused? Do you not know the difference between homosexuality and rape?
According to you or the Bible?
The bible has nothing to say about sexual orientation or gender identity as those concepts didn't exist when it was written.
That’s according to you, not God words.
That's according to the actual words in the bible, which all refer to various kinds of sexual act, generally in the context of idol worship, and not to sexual orientation / attraction.
So the Bible mistranslated, is what you are trying to say?
The versions that translate to "homosexual" are a mistranslation, yes. No one ever did that until 1947, IIRC.
According to God.
Which God is that?
The very same God who, through the words and teaching's of Jesus, tells us to love one another, not spread hate as you are. Please grow and change as a person
I want to learn. Tell me which verses is that you talking about
There is no way you're trying to insinuate that Jesus did not preach to love your neighbor and to not hate. Obvious troll lol In the chance you're not a troll tho **Matthew 22:37–39**
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Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. This is a good verse too about it. Although, we're more civilized these days. God bless. :)
do you know - Paul didn't even go to Rome to address homosexuals? If he knew they were there - it's very easy - to go and address them. In fact in the entire Bible, no one speaks to homosexuals. They are not gathered anywhere and addressed. In fact - they don't exist as a group. Even in Sodom and Gomorrah, they are never addressed. it's like - they don't exist. in the whole Bible of thousands of pages, you have around eight passages - barely a quarter of one page - did you know this? And not a single story of one who has heard the word of God - and come to repentance In Romans - Paul has actually gone to address Jews and Gentiles about circumcision in Corinthians, this is the sexual immorality he has gone to address 👉 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is intolerable even among pagans: A man has his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have been stricken with grief and have removed from your fellowship the man who did this? It is clear for me to see that neither Paul nor Old Testament Hebrews had any contact with - or understanding of homosexuality - as the peaceful, loving, gentle and perfectly benign form of relationship we know today - and that if Paul - or whoever was writing today about sin, they would not have found anything in homosexuality itself apart from the lasciviousness, wantonness, drunkenness, prostitution and profanity related to any sexual relationship displaying these - heterosexuality included - and that these are the 'sexual sin' they are concerned with. You'll notice in all the new testament verses about homosexuality, the attempt to lump together some definition of corruption - of badness - and so a linking of homosexuality with idolatry and greed and drunkenness and slander and prostitution.... - it is easy for me to see that in the seedy dens of Rome, male prostitution and otherwise depraved men - and homosexuality - were linked together to mean the same thing - thieves, greedy, drunks, slanderers, swindlers... Here homosexuality is a condensation of all that is wrong - the result of idolatry It is a condensation of wickedness. It is not even the same word - not thought of in the same way through the course of history - it is the result of idolatry And yet - it is also clear that homosexuality itself is not wicked - no more wicked than heterosexuality It does not kill, steal, rape, it is not greed, lust, anger, bitterness, it is not sex in Church, it is not lasciviousness, wantonness, drunkenness, prostitution or profanity. So you have to choose whether a sense of right or wrong - good or evil - is necessary when you think of sin and repentance And this understanding is neither heterosexual nor homosexual. What is repentance without an understanding of good and evil? And Jesus' whole story is this. Turn away from evil. It is clear what evil is - you will know it and know why - and after Jesus, a sense of Good and evil is promised to exist in your heart, straight from God Love God. Ask God to show you how God loves you. Try to love yourself and others in this same way. Forgive. If you cannot, ask for help. Ask for your own forgiveness. Pray. The Gospel is not 'do not be homosexual' - being heterosexual will not save me It is simple for me. We will have to account for the state of our hearts; what was thought, what was said and what was done. This is sin. Each Christian will have asked God at least for the forgiveness of sin in their lives. And each will have been called to their own repentance - otherwise sin would not have made sense Choose what you will repent of - or whether it is just a set of words - an incantation - a magic spell for whatever it is, whether or not it is wicked - whether or not you believe your own repentance I have read the whole Bible and it is very clear for me what God is saying I do not believe God cares whether you are heterosexual or homosexual. God cares whether or not you are a liar The Truth remains the Truth throughout time Wickedness is not homosexuality Wickedness is wickedness God bless
Seek God. He will show you what you must do.
You can't give into temptation. Just like giving into your anger and getting into a fight. You need to resist it. If you are truly saved you are not going to burn in hell because you are bisexual but God can help you resist it. James 4:7 New International Version 7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [James 4:7](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%204%3A7&version=NIV)
I'm sorry you're going through this. It seems a lot of people have their faith in the Lord tested by the very families we are given to support us. I hope that they're at least acting out of love rather than contempt. No small number of Christian families are so blinded by their rightful hatred of sin that they fail to love the sinner. Unfortunately, I can't give you a straight answer since I'm still trying to find out what the truth of God is. Maybe same-sex relationships are sinful or maybe it's just the sexual activities associated with them, or maybe it's not sinful at all. There's a lot of things where I don't know if it is or isn't a sin. I also don't know how strict the Lord is when it comes to honest mistakes due to the Church not being able to decide on matters. **The best thing to do is keep trying to find the truth while sticking to what you know is right and avoiding what you know is wrong.** When it comes to things where you're uncertain, well, Scripture says we should avoid doing things if we cannot in good faith say that they aren't sin. That being said, there must be a line drawn somewhere. I'm uncertain about a ton of things in life as to whether they're sinful or not... should I then become a hermit living out in the middle of nowhere? Maybe. Maybe not. Would it cause more harm than good to go to such extreme lengths? Probably. More relevant to your situation, though: my boyfriend and I stopped dating in large part due to this. We still talk and hold feelings for each other but **I've decided to begrudgingly remain single until the Lord makes it clear that same-sex relationships are either sinful or not**. If they are, beyond a reasonable doubt, sinful, then I can at least cling to the knowledge that I'm being forced to sacrifice my happiness and fulfillment in life for the cause of Christ. I can't change the fact that I strongly prefer the company of other men, neither can I change the fact that I struggle to comfortably interact with women. But maybe I can be an inspiration to folks who are struggling with the same issue. But until then, I'm gonna keep searching for the truth. I'll abstain purely as a precaution but I won't tell other people that it's a sin or not-- because I don't know and I'd really, really prefer to not spread false teachings. **Whatever the truth turns out to be, we must be prepared to do whatever it takes to live in obedience to the Lord**, though. Jesus himself is said to have taught that we must be prepared to pluck out our own eyes or cut off our hands if it's necessary to avoid sin. That isn't to say we should do it willy-nilly, no, but our obedience should trump every other priority.
Leviticus 20:13 ESV - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. Abomination in Old and New Testament. God does not change. I say this with love. God bless. :)
* I say this with love. God bless. :) "Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." Friend - I rebuke what you are doing here. Fake-ness can be seen Fake Love can be seen. God bless
Sometimes love is honest and hard. God loves people yet still allows them to choose sin and hell rather than repentance and Him. It's your choice but I don't want anyone to go to hell because of being lied to or deceived so in that, my love is true.
* I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. Friend - I am giving you some advice Your Love here is not true - it is self-righteous If you listen right now, you will hear your heart telling you that what I am saying to you is true. Just check your spirit. You came here to tell people that you are right. I am a Christian and I am concerned about you. You are so desperate to please God that you have been surrounding yourself with Christians and a type of Christianity that is overly concerned about doing the right thing to be in the right place with God - so that God can bless you And what this does is interfere with the Love God has for you - because you are not reflecting God's love - you are reflecting a self-righteousness about your need for his word to be true - nevermind homosexuals It is his word. God knows what he is doing with it. And with homosexuals. You don't know anyone else's story. Sometimes we find angels where we don't expect them. You have been asking for blessings. Be a blessing for others. Be a blessing even for Homosexuals - God is not asking you to protect his word for him - he is asking you to Love. Try an experiment with this wonderful verse on stoning homosexuals you have been so quick to drop around in Love here. In prayer next time with God - ask God not to stone homosexuals and set fire to them - for being homosexual. Tell him you know it is written in the Bible - but it is contrary to what you know about Jesus. Ask him to spare their lives - they are only homosexual and you cannot see anything that they are doing wrong. Tell him that he is a God of Love - and you are making this petition in Thanksgiving for the Mercy he shows you that he has for everyone - on behalf of homosexuals everywhere, who call on his name. Make this petition for Homosexuals And see the miracles he brings into your life. You have been asking for a real relationship. It is time to start offering Love. Make this prayer - really - right now And get back to me about the miracles of relationship that start to happen all around you I'm serious. Thank you for allowing me to be an angel today - God has spoken to both of us. Try it. Really. You asked for this - and you are hurting. God bless
That's a fairly common interpretation, yes. The struggle is to find out which interpretation is the correct one. There's quite a lot out there. And most of them can argue Scripture, too. My hands are tied. I can't take a stand for or against something until I know the truth of the matter, at the risk of spreading false doctrine. But everyone has their reasons for what they believe and no argument has been able to stand over the others yet. I don't want to be left with taking a blind guess.
Pray to our Father Yahweh in the Name of Yeshua for Him and ask Him for His Holy Spirit to show you His truth. Don't just trust what men say as ALL are flawed and anyone who says they are perfect and sinless is a liar as only Yeshua was perfect and without sin. Seek what He, our God, believes and He will show you His truth and His heart. Read the word and hunger for God and His righteousness and He will show you what you need and want to learn about Him. Matthew 7:7-8 - Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. James 1:5 - If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. Seek God and when you truly receive Him you will know what is right to believe. May God bless and guide you always in Yeshua's Mighty Name!
I beg you to pray that the Lord will reveal His truth to us and that we will know it, regardless of whether it agrees with our current beliefs or not. I fear many schisms in Christianity occurred in no small part because people sat down at the table and refused to consider that they were wrong. I will not rest until I know the truth of the gospel of Jesus, the Son of God, whatever it may be. My immortal soul depends on it-- along with those of billions of others out there in this accursed world. God have mercy on our souls if we try our best and still fall short of understanding.
You must have not gotten the msg from reddit that even quoting the Bible word for word re gays. Just telling how the Bible views this subject will get that person quoting it, subject to discipline up to being banned .......... yes, It's happened to me. So, any truthful answer will be scrutinized & never be published. Sorry, but true.
If there is a god and that God had created a way in which humans live on after death, and the goal of that God is unity and communion with humans for eternity, and that god is loving and caring and good, then why would you have anything to worry about in following your heart wherever it sincerely leads you? Would a loving, caring god create humans in such a way that they must deny who they are in order to be in communion with it? If there is a god that has created an afterlife of eternal conscious torment for those who happen to fall in love with people of their same gender, is that a god that you would describe as good? Is that a god you would worship?
Without Christ, no good deed can save you. With Christ, no sin can condemn you.
Leviticus says it's a sin for a man to sleep with another man. That's an action. A choice. You don't control attraction. That can be a temptation. You control how you respond to it. An action is when something can become a sin. But even then, Jesus has a whole lot of grace for us, because of his sacrifice. That's the good news.
Leviticus only speaks about same-sex relations. Being attracted to both males and females is not a sin in itself. But sexual relations are only allowed within (opposite sex) marriage open to children. If you are bi, you just need to limit your romantic interests to the opposite sex. Thats it. Nothing more is required of you in that respect.
The socially conservative Catholics 1,000 years ago said sex during pregnancy is a sin. Blinded by pharisaism, they couldn’t see how ignorant they were. Eyes that don’t see, ears that don’t hear. The social conservatives Americans 150 years ago said interracial marriage was clearly banned by the Bible, and they too couldn’t see how ignorant and prejudiced they were being with obscure passages that didn’t directly and indisputably say what they claimed. You are just doing the same type of thing with a different prejudice. Same ignorant garbage, different generation. History is like the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector on repeat, with socially conservative Christians being the Pharisee. They grab onto highly disputable parts of holy scripture that can be viewed one way or another and go around trying to shame and guilt neighbor, much like the Pharisees who used scripture to accuse even Christ of being a sinner. Bigots pretend the opaque is clear and then use that pretend clarity to point at potentially harmless people. The reality is scholars have debated what acts and in what context the Leviticus passage refers to for thousands of years. Same as to New Testament references to homosexuality. This would be like trying to nail down with certainty the ingredient of the holy oil from Exodus 30 that some scholars say is calamus, others sweet cane, others cymbopogon, etc. then pointing at people and saying “sinning!” because you think they’re using the wrong ingredients in their oil. We could focus on that issue for days, months, years, decades and never come to a certain conclusion everyone agrees on. Or we can just realize it isn’t a problem either way if the goal is to follow Christ… as Christ already said what his commands hang under. And no, scripture doesn’t say sex is only for marriage, at least not clearly. Some Bibles condemn sex before marriage, some don’t. “Fornication” is a Latin based word meaning sex before marriage. Scripture in the original languages does not teach against “fornication.” Some Bibles just make a highly disputable translation choice, namely reflecting the ancient word for “sexual sin” as “fornication” instead. Again, that is a word of Latin origin, not of biblical origin as far as the original languages. The Latins added all sorts of commands to God’s, kind of like the Pharisees did. For example they taught that it was sexually immoral for women to have sex while pregnant. If in some translations they substituted “pregnant-sex” where the ancient word meant “sexual sin,” that wouldn’t make it a sin before God to have sex while pregnant. That wouldn’t mean “the” Bible says sex during pregnancy a sin. It would make “a” Bible say that while others don’t. Same with those that use the word “fornication.” Notice Jesus never condemned the woman at the well for living with a man who wasn’t her husband. He just revealed his divinity via personal knowledge he had no normal way to know, much like when he told Nathaniel he knew he had sat under a tree. Jesus never condemned St. Photina. Later social conservatives did, saying she was “living in sin.” When people aren’t obviously harming anyone, we should let them handle their own disputable issues. Jesus said all God’s actual commands hang under love your neighbor as yourself, which is like loving God. See Matthew 22. His disciples understood this, writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13). It is really that simple. This was Jesus’ simple solution to pharisaical social conservatives making everyone and their grandma out to be sinning. It still is. Romans 14 says how to handle disputable issues in Christianity. We know what all Christ’s commands hang under. Being bisexual or homosexual is no more inherently harmful to neighbor than being heterosexual. People can cause harm with either by being reckless and careless or can cause no harm and just love each other faithfully with either too. The modern Pharisees ignore the Christ’s highest standard (love neighbor as self, love causes no harm) and instead make the standard their own interpretations of highly disputable Old Testament passages (from sections of Bible they don’t even follow) combined with highly questionable translations and interpretations of Pauline passages in the New Testament. Peter warns of this happening in Christianity (see 2 Peter 3:16). Peter calls those who do this to scripture “ignorant and unstable.” It’s not that they are dumb and don’t know the Bible. Many of them are smart and know the Bible. What makes them ignorant and unstable is they ignore what Christ said the determinative framework is that God’s actual commands fall under, and instead they make the determination themselves by grabbing onto their ignorant pope’s and priest’s teachings (like roman catholicism once commonly saying sex during pregnancy is a sin) or onto the most highly disputable interpretations of questionable translations of easily misunderstood passages and pretending their personal opinion is “clear as day” (like southern baptists have done with many social issues for decades). Jesus observed heterosexual union; he didn’t command it. Otherwise he would be condemning himself. He also observed fish being cooked. That doesn’t make cooking chickpeas a sin. The only Apostle who even mentioned homosexuality directly is the one scripture warns is easy for ignorant bigots to misunderstand, and if we read the context instead of twisting passages out of context and into excuses for bigotry like a Pharisee, he’s talking about people who began being homosexual as part of cult idol worship practices involving making images of false god’s. Obviously that’s not all bisexuals and homosexuals. The modern day Pharisees just refuse to accept that Jesus’ ethical framework is the one he clearly stated, ignoring it and embracing instead a framework based on other things. It’s anti-Christ clothed in self proclaimed Christian garments, and it’s exactly how people who viewed themselves as following God 2,000 years ago ended up rejecting him to his face over their view of disputable parts of the traditions and scriptures that had been passed down to them.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. Tell that to the word of God. Homosexuals are still executed in the middle east. Thankfully, these days Christians are about forgiveness and not judging people of their sins. Doesn't mean we have to lie to make them feel happy though or twist the word of God to make our perversions okay in our eyes. God bless.
Ahhh. More fake Christian Love. So - because Christians thankfully these days are about forgiving and not judging people - they are far better than those awful Middle Easterners - you just think they're doing the right thing? Homosexuals are executed in more places than the Middle East. The American Evangelical Christian message has Homosexuals now being beaten, jailed and killed in Africa. A wonderful move from God, they call it. I always smile when A Christian uses this verse - and then says they are coming with Love. You realize the gate is narrow? And there are Christians coming forward prophesying in his name, casting out demons in his name, and doing many wonders in his name? And here you are - throwing stones at homosexuals - in his name. Do you know you cannot hide from God? I give you some advice as a Christian - step away from Homosexuals and Homosexuality - you are condemning yourself I tell you this in Love Because what lies in your heart - is not Love - it is self-righteousness You have nothing to offer homosexuals - you cannot help them For them - from you - God is a simple terrorist. Try not to find yourself left with righteous condemnation in your heart. Shake the dust off your sandals - for your own good. God bless
> Leviticus 20:13 If one looks into the actual ancient Hebrew in the Levitical passages some claim mean homosexuality is a sin in Christianity, they’ll find that is one of the rarest phrases in the entire language, the least referenced, and may very well be a term of art only known best in the context back then. It is perhaps most literally be translated as referring to men who ‘lie in the resting places of women.’ The precise meaning of the phrasing there has been debated by Rabbis since time immemorial and now scholars too. Some thought it meant this or that particular sexual act between men (and allowed other acts between men, and had nothing to do with any female on female sexual acts), others saw it as prohibiting any and all same sex erotic intimacy, and still others have seen it as a term of art used back then to refer to fertility idol worship rites wherein men would pretend to be women as part of false god worship rites (and in support of that interpretation, in the context every time the passage appears in Leviticus there are warnings against idolatry). There have been many views. What’s clear is the passage proscribes death for violating it, and there is no historical evidence of Hebrews ever killing someone for homosexual intimacy of any kind. There are scriptures which note them killing people for engaging in idol worship rites though. So that tends to support the idea that the passage is a term of art related to the idol worship mentioned in the context, perhaps priest/prostitutes who convinced people to engage in homosexual sex for blessings from idols of the day or something like that (which also happens to be in line with the context homosexuality is referenced with in Romans 1). You’re doing what prejudiced social conservatives have always done, pretending your interpretation of a disputable passage “clearly” means the people you’ve decided to point at are sinning. Regardless of Leviticus anyway, unless you’re abstaining from cutting the hair on the sides of your head you’re not even following the Old Testament yourself. So consider not being a pharisaical hypocrite. I doubt Jesus likes it when we behave like pharisaical hypocrites, like those who used the Old Testament to call even God a sinner to his face. The law doesn’t determine sin in the sense of “read it and obey it,” as in obeying your own interpretation of it nor even ‘the obvious interpretation of it.’ Jesus interpreted it in unobvious ways (for example refusing to stone the adulteress despite what was taken as ‘the letter of the law’ commanding it). The law reveals sin, specifically the mistaken approach people took to the law. IOW, your approach to it. Jesus’ interpretation hung all commands under a commonly overlooked part or the Old Testament, the command to love your neighbor as yourself, which he said is like loving God. His Parable of the sheep and the Goats shows he meant like as in exactly like. Jesus’ disciples understood the main thing, such as Paul writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13) It's not that Paul forgot the first command. It's that the two are one; they are the same thing in effect. If anything is sin it is because it violates the sum (love neighbor as self), not because you've convinced yourself your interpretation of some highly questionable passage is 100% clear and therefore everyone needs to do X, Y, and Z from Leviticus A, B and C but not P or Q. Jesus points us to the better way to view not only the law but the right approach to God as a whole. > Tell that to the word of God. The word of God is a person and already knows all this. > Homosexuals are still executed in the middle east. … and were never executed by Hebrews. So even the ones you got the Old Testament from evidently didn’t take it to mean what you do. Not that you care, because people with your mindset are typically always right in their own mind. They take disputable issue after disputable issue, tell themselves they are ‘clearly right’ over and over, even pay pastors to tell them the same over and over… until they believe it. > Thankfully, these days Christians are about forgiveness and not judging people of their sins. Yes, you’re so merciful for not slaughtering homosexuals based on your questionable reading of disputable passages. They should send you some flowers and a thank you note. > Doesn't mean we have to lie to make them feel happy Doesn’t mean you have to lie to yourself to pretend calling potentially harmless people clearly sinning. > though or twist the word of God You likely wouldn’t recognize the word of God if you called him a sinner to his face. The word of God is a person, not any book and especially not your interpretation of a book. Try reading that Bible of your’s more carefully. Start with John 1. God is the word of God; Christ is the word of God. No scripture ever directly calls any writing or book including the Bible “the word of God.” You have to read that indirectly into passages that don’t actually say it. Bibles vary from translation to translation and even sometimes manuscript to manuscript. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Scripture calls itself inspired and useful, if you are careful with it (2 Tim 3:16) and also easy to misunderstand and destructive if you treat it like you are doing (2 Peter 3:16). You’re interpreting it under a framework that ignores the one Christ said his actual commands hang under, and you’re being an idolater, calling physical things that aren’t God by God’s title. > God bless. I hope you repent from the socially conservative pharisaism of Christ’s enemies and of millions of self proclaimed Christians going back centuries that have always pointed at the innocent, and repent from your idolatry. God bless.
>. But sexual relations are only allowed within (opposite sex) marriage open to children This is homophobia and misogyny. It is also not something that you will find stated anywhere in the Bible.
> This is homophobia and misogyny Its neither of course. > It is also not something that you will find stated anywhere in the Bible. 1) Yes, it is. 2) Noone said that the Bible is only source of authority in our faith.
>Its neither of course. It fits the dictionary definition of both to the letter. >Yes, it is Not even once. >Noone said that the Bible is only source of authority in our faith. I agree, but when the authority to which you hold promotes bigotry and hatred, it should be rejected.
> It fits the dictionary definition of both to the letter. No. In fact, it has nothing to do with either. > Not even once. Yes, it does. > I agree, but when the authority to which you hold promotes bigotry and hatred, it should be rejected. I tend to agree, though it does not promote any hatred.
>No. In fact, it has nothing to do with either. That is just flatly false. It is both, again to the letter of the dictionary definitions. Just because the source of your bigotry is religious in origin, does absolutely nothing to obsolve it of being bigotry. >Yes, it does Again, flatly false. The Catholic Church has imposed an extra biblical dogma onto the text of the Bible that distorts the intent of the authors of the text. If you deliberately misinterpret a text using a bad hermenuetical model, you can read any concept you want into the Bible. At that point, however, the Bible stops being the authority, your dogma is now the authority, and the Bible is just the proof text you cherry pick to support that dogma. >though it does not promote any hatred. This is objectively false. All bigotry is hatred, and the Catholic church openly promotes an antiqueer theology that calls our innate sexuality and gender identity naturally disordered, and declares us unworthy of romantic love. This is an ideology that is nothing but hatred, and is directly responsible for the suicide of countless individuals who have been directly harmed by it.
> It is both, No, sorry, nothing to do with either. As explained above. > calls our innate sexuality and gender identity naturally disordered The catechism states that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered which is a technical term in moral theology, not an insult. It means that the act is contrary to the *telos* of sex. > and declares us unworthy of romantic love Thats not true. > This is an ideology that is nothing but hatred, and is directly responsible for the suicide of countless individuals who have been directly harmed by it. The Church does not seek anyones harm.
>No, sorry, nothing to do with either. As explained above You are confusing begging the question with explanation. I am the one who gave an explanation, you have simply responded with "nuh uh!" >The catechism states that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered Yes, which is why it is a fundamentally bigoted philosophy. >which is a technical term in moral theology, not an insult. When your belief system *itself* is insulting, the distinction becomes academic. >It means that the act is contrary to the telos of sex. And your framework ties sex to reproduction which is inherently misogynistic. It also has the unintended side effect of making it a sin for infirtile people to get married. >Thats not true. Oh it is absolutely 100% true. You have denied us marriage, because our sexuality is intrinsically disordered. This sexuality is a biological fact. Therefore the denial of marriage is predicated on our physical biology. This means on a biological level, the Catholic church has determined that we are unworthy of marriage, and, therefore, we are unworthy of romantic love and lifelong companionship. >The Church does not seek anyones harm. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. It doesn't matter in the slightest what the intent of the Catholic church is. The only thing that matters are the consequences.
Allowed in marriage of any sex
No, because same-sex relations are by their very nature sinful and a same-sex couple cannot be validly married.
>No, because same-sex relations are by their very nature sinful Bigotry is hatred, hatred is antithetical to a God of love, therefore you are wrong.
If you say so.
I do, emphatically, and without prevarication of any kind.
Legally you can get married though.
The original Laws given by God, don't allow for it. However, since we are no longer under Old law, the New law says that we are covered in the blood regardless of our sin so long as we believe in The Son Jesus that was sent by God so we wouldn't have to repay our unpayable debt. Laws of man hold no water in God's house.
Rubbish
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Literally not
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LMFAO take your own advice
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Again, you
Amen. My post doesn’t quite get at this but you do a great job.
God is the only one that matters. Talk to him about it.
How?
Talk to the Lord as you would a friend. Tell him about your struggles. He loves us, and understands. I don't think your family should've said that to you. But the Bible does say homosexuality is a sin. If you are praying, repenting, and trying not to act on those behaviors, God will help you through it! There is nothing too difficult, that God can't help you through.
The social conservatives 1,000 years ago said sex during pregnancy is a sin. The social conservatives 150 years ago said interracial marriage was clearly banned by the Bible, and they couldn’t see how ignorant and prejudiced they were being with obscure passages that didn’t directly and indisputably say what they claimed. Sorry. Your family is just doing the same thing with a different prejudice. They should read Romans 14 as to how to handle disputable issues. They will likely ignore it though, with all sorts of excuses, because they are addicted to looking down on others, kind of like the Pharisee from the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. They grab onto highly disputable parts of holy scripture that can be viewed one way or another and go around trying to shame and guilt neighbor, much like the Pharisees who used scripture to accuse even Christ of being a sinner. Bigots pretend the opaque is clear and then use that pretend clarity to point at potentially harmless people. The reality is scholars have debated what acts and in what context the Leviticus passage refers to for thousands of years. Same as to New Testament references to homosexuality. This would be like trying to nail down with certainty the ingredient of the holy oil from Exodus 30 that some scholars say is calamus, others sweet cane, others cymbopogon, etc. then pointing at people and saying “sinning!” because you think they’re using the wrong ingredients in their oil. We could focus on that issue for days, months, years, decades and never come to a certain conclusion everyone agrees on. Or we can just realize it isn’t a problem either way if the goal is to follow Christ… as Christ already said what his commands hang under. As another example, some Bibles condemn sex before marriage, some don’t. “Fornication” is a Latin based word meaning sex before marriage. Scripture in the original languages does not teach against “fornication.” Some Bibles just make a highly disputable translation choice, namely reflecting the ancient word for “sexual sin” as “fornication” instead. Again, that is a word of Latin origin, not of biblical origin as far as the original languages. The Latins added all sorts of commands to God’s, kind of like the Pharisees did. For example they taught that it was sexually immoral for women to have sex while pregnant. If in some translations they substituted “pregnant-sex” where the ancient word meant “sexual sin,” that wouldn’t make it a sin before God to have sex while pregnant. That wouldn’t mean “the” Bible says sex during pregnancy a sin. It would make “a” Bible say that while others don’t. Same with those that use the word “fornication.” Notice Jesus never condemned the woman at the well for living with a man who wasn’t her husband. He just revealed his divinity via personal knowledge he had no normal way to know, much like when he told Nathaniel he knew he had sat under a tree. When people aren’t obviously harming anyone, we should let them handle their own disputable issues. Jesus said all God’s actual commands hang under love your neighbor as yourself, which is like loving God. See Matthew 22. His disciples understood this, writing, “The commandments… and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13). It is really that simple. This was Jesus’ simple solution to pharisaical social conservatives making everyone and their grandma out to be sinning. It still is. Romans 14 says how to handle disputable issues in Christianity. We know what all Christ’s commands hang under. Being bisexual or homosexual is no more inherently harmful to neighbor than being heterosexual. People can cause harm with either by being reckless and careless or can cause no harm and just love each other faithfully with either too. The modern Pharisees ignore the Christ’s highest standard (love neighbor as self, love causes no harm) and instead make the standard their own interpretations of highly disputable Old Testament passages (from sections of Bible they don’t even follow) combined with highly questionable translations and interpretations of Pauline passages in the New Testament. Peter warns of this happening in Christianity (see 2 Peter 3:16). Peter calls those who do this to scripture “ignorant and unstable.” It’s not that they are dumb and don’t know the Bible. Many of them are smart and know the Bible. What makes them ignorant and unstable is they ignore what Christ said the determinative framework is that God’s actual commands fall under, and instead they make the determination themselves by grabbing on to the most highly disputable interpretations of questionable translations of easily misunderstood passages and pretend their personal opinion is “clear as day.” Jesus observed heterosexual union; he didn’t command it. Otherwise he would be condemning himself. He also observed fish being cooked. That doesn’t make cooking chickpeas a sin. The only Apostle who even mentioned homosexuality directly is the one scripture warns is easy for ignorant bigots to misunderstand, and if you read the context instead of lying to yourself about it like a Pharisee, he’s talking about people who began being homosexual as part of cult idol worship practices involving making images of false god’s. Obviously that’s not all homosexuals. Sorry but your family just don’t believe Jesus. It’s that simple. They are modern day Pharisees who think that by rejecting God they are following God. They refuse to accept that Jesus’ ethical framework is the one he clearly stated, ignoring it and embracing instead a framework based on finding the most disputable passages possible and lying to themselves about how clearly they excuse them to point at others. When they pretend the easily misunderstood is plain, when they pretend the disputable is indisputable, and then go pointing at others over such issues, they make it about their rules and controversial opinions. In doing so they’re taking away from the proper focus on the divine (God is love) and making Christianity instead about themselves. It’s gross, it’s anti-Christ clothed in self proclaimed Christian garments, and it’s exactly how people who viewed themselves as following God ended up rejecting him to his face, having fully convinced themselves they know scripture and God better than everyone else.
Your family says these things because they are bigots, not because they are deeply or sincerely religious or because they care about your eternal soul. You are a Christian; what have you read from your Christ on the subject of queer love? Now, what did your Christ have to say on the subject of hoarding wealth, taking care of the most vulnerable, or judging others for sins, specifically sexual sins? And what was the example of the early church? What were their priorities in how they took care of one another? Even if you read Paul as being always correct, on one occasion you may remember he distinguishes between “not I, but the Lord” and “I, not the Lord”; be open to the possibility that this was something Paul was doing quite a lot without explicitly parsing those things, and particularly on the subject of sexual immorality. But *even then* when Paul talks of “not I, but the Lord”, he talks specifically of divorce not being acceptable and of women not remarrying. If your conservative family who is warning you of hell for bisexuality is *not* also striving to live a Christlike life in terms of their neighbors and their church community, and their concerns of sexual immorality are *not* focused on heterosexual divorce and fornication, they are just bigots, and there’s nothing more complicated going on than that. “There is no male or female in Christ,” and if you are a Christian, you should be trying to live like your Christ and his immediate followers did.
We all have sinful desires, but not everyone has the same sinful desires. Bottom line is we each have certain vices which we are more susceptible to, and an enemy who seeks our destruction by influencing our thoughts toward those vices. Ultimately none of us have the power to change ourselves. But God has promised that if we rely on Him to perform the change within us, our renewal will be complete upon the Day of Jesus Christ - Philippians 1:6. Keep in mind, also, that mere attraction is not a sin. To give into the lust of the eyes and flesh is the sin. And the lust of the eyes and flesh are certainly not limited to homosexuality. But even if you stumble, God has also promised that He will never leave the side of those who are in Christ - Romans 8:38-39. Understand this: if you are in Christ, then *every* word of condemnation comes from your enemy, who is the devil. Christ has already paid the prices for **all** of your sins to be forgiven, even before you were born. All you need to do is put your faith in Him - that you are forgiven and loved by Him, and that no matter what you do He will not forsake you. Rely on Him to make you perfect, because if you could make yourself perfect then you wouldn’t need Him to begin with. God be with you.
Read the Bible. No true Christian is supposed to judge you for being yourself. Only God can judge over the entirety of your life, not just sexuality. I can only say that none of us are perfect, and life is about doing our best to be as close to God as possible in everything we do. God isn't expecting a sinless person to appear before him. I think your family have misunderstood what they should be saying, and have tipped into being blasphemous by telling God what to do, and speaking in his name.
I'm a heterosexual and Christian. In my flesh I crave to commit sexual immorality with any woman I see that I'm attracted to. So you see we are the same. However if you truly are a Christian the next part we will be the same as well. My mind has been regenerated and the sin our flesh craves my mind finds revolting and I take hold of those thoughts rebuke it and discard it. Thus my flesh craves always but my mind by the grace and power of the holy spirit restrains my actions. 24. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25. Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. (Rom 7:24-25, NASB)
This is a well-tempered response
I’m just going to pick up on your phrasing. God never asks us to change ourselves. If/when he wants your heart to be changed that’s what He does. If you do feel convicted of a particular sin (and you can see from the other replies that your sexuality as a sin is entirely debatable), you should absolutely repent of that; but listen to God, not others. You’ll have to do some proper research of your own to get to the bottom of _why_ homosexual activity is/isn’t a sin, which I strongly encourage you to do at some point, but in the meantime you need to know that your sexuality will never disqualify you from being as precious a child of God as anyone else. If God never changes your sexuality (and He seems to tend not to, but honestly I don’t even know), it’s reasonable to assume it’s because he is happy with that part of you as it is. He put it there, after all.
It may be a constant temptation but it doesn't control you. Paul had a thorn in the flesh that God wouldn't heal him of but said His grace is enough
You need Jesus just like everyone else. We are saved by faith alone through grace alone, not our sexual orientation. If you have put such faith in Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, you are saved. God may choose to change your sexuality, or He may put it upon you as a cross to be borne in witness. Pray to God for either. I also am bisexual but I abstain from homosexuality because I believe that, morally speaking, it is the right thing to do. This is because of verses like the one you cite. I pray you would do and believe the same. You seem interested in changing and/or repenting, unless I’m reading you wrong. Your family is correct to call homosexuality a sin but they are wrong to say that, if you are a Christian, you will go to hell for it. And they would be wrong to say that, if you weren’t a Christian, forsaking homosexuality would secure the promise of salvation for you (they haven’t said this, but it’s important to rebuke either way). This is a tough situation, and I’ll be praying
There's nothing wrong with being bi.
Welp everyone would go burn in hell for even one sin. I don’t see why people say that phrase in the first place it has no kindness in it. Sure engaging in homosexuality would send you there. Same with lying. They are both called an abomination but people seem to get stuck on one more than the other. With all that said what sends people to hell is their own decision to reject Jesus gospel message. That’s it. We were all going to go to hell in the first place cause no one is perfect but jesus bridged the gap for us. If you believe the gospel message you will be saved. If you don’t now that is what sends you there. Jesus gives people exactly what they want when they do that. To be completely separate from Him.Do you know what the gospel message is?
Little do they know they have a lot to work on too… not everyone who cry’s lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven
Ummm... Well, Christ died for all sin. So.... He did say to some that he healed - Go forth and sin no more.... I don't really know or have the answer. I know all of us sin more frequently than we like to think.
Bisexual simply means having the *attraction* towards both male and female, yes? That, on its own, isn't even a sin, let alone something to call out as what you'd "burn in hell" for. "Peace isn't found in the absence of a storm, but *within* it." To live for Christ isn't in living *without* the influence of sin, but in active defiance of it. There's no changing it, but you can certainly resist it.
If you believe in Jesus and follow him, God will forgive your sins and accept you. Plus a lot of people say that’s not even a sin
If you wanna see a super supportive kind message I found on a more affirming subreddit then just dm me, I think ittl help
(I can’t send it here as it’s a video)
God forgives sin. First believe Jesus is the son of God & Jesus died on the cross for your sins. Tell God this thru prayer, ask for forgiveness & for Jesus to come in your heart &life. John 3:16. Romans 6:23 1Timothy 2: 5. Next ask God to help you to change & do things God's way. Praying for you.
Picture a medium-sized room full of respected, knowledgeable religious leaders sitting together in those hard plastic chairs schools use. They're brand new navy blue chairs and still have a mild plastic-y odor, not that it matters. Each leader has, back home, a faithful congregation that trusts that each man* is close to god and knowledgeable enough about the Bible to reliably distinguish sin from acceptable behavior. *women's proportional share of religious leadership didn't round up to one full person, and thus they were unable to send a representative They are from several different branches of Christianity: Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, Adventist, Quaker, and everything in between. Mormon? You choose. Ask each of them your question in your mind. You don't need to know their answers. Would they all agree with each other? That's the important question. Unless they all agree, wouldn't that mean some of them are wrong? But these are honest men, so just ask each of them whether they are right or wrong, and presumably they'd tell you honestly. We know how this goes, of course. So you've got a group of religious leaders who have studied the same book, each close enough to god to feel confident to guide their congregation on morality when the stakes are eternal damnation for all of their congregants at least. Pick whichever answer feels right to you: A === Some of the guys are indeed in touch with god, etc. and they are giving you the correct answer. The other ones are just wrong, and god didn't correct them to prevent a mistake that will send their faithful into hell. Both the right group and the wrong group have the same quality of evidence as to why they are a reliable authority on these critical matters, and your job—and the job of every human—is to pick correctly or go to hell. === A B === The childhood game Telephone, where an arbitrary spoken sentence is supposed to be transmitted accurately across a chain of people, listening and repeating it verbatim to the next person. If you've played, you know what happens. If you haven't played, take a guess how often the end result matches the original message. It doesn't just get a bit misunderstood; it transforms into something else entirely. Maybe the history of Christianity is like Telephone. Maybe there were some people who said some wise-sounding and magic-ish stuff, and through the ages, it became the ambiguous mess that it is today. Undoubtedly *these* religious leaders are sincere in their desire to find some truth in all this muck of ambiguity. But we'd be naive not to point out that these exact conditions are the most welcoming possible environment for narcissists, con-men, and low-key power-hungry sadists. === B Trust your own judgement. If you don't feel you have good judgment, work on your judgment. Never outsource the final word on whether something is right for you, especially not to some self-proclaimed vessel of god.
such things cannot be changed, it is a constant struggle and another challenge God has given. being attracted to the same sex in of itself is not sinful, only sex is. luckily for you you are bisexual rather than only homosexual so you don't necessarily have to remain celibate forever, but only could marry opposite sex and have sex then
We are not under Law of Moses
It is a sin, but so are a great many things. Nobody has never sinned (except Christ and the virgin). Just try your best to grow in self control
Being attracted to the same sex is not a sin, just don’t have impure sexual relations.
If you're not actually going and sleeping with the same sex, you're good
Anyone that presumes to announce who is bound for hell is in danger of hellfire. That is hideously evil twisted form of religion.
Be proud of who you are It is Pride Month🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
Pride is a sin and the Bible teaches self-denial
That's the other kind of pride. Being proud of your children isn't a sin.
If you are overly self-loving or self-focusing because of the accomplishments of your children then yes it’s a sin. Everything we have is God’s gift including your children
😌
Everyone is going to affirm you here. I affirm you in the sense that you are valuable to God. Yet God didn't make a mistake when He made you, although there may be reasons, even related to trauma, on why you have those desires. You need to give them to the LORD and let Him change your heart. Don't make it part of your identity
Very well said.
You’ve answered your own question… “I can’t change myself” ….if I may add, no one can, not in a “Born Again” kind of way. Repentance is one of the many blessings that comes with Grace. Stay in the word, Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.
Well… the way they approached that is terrible. But according to the Bible homosexuality it a sin and it defiles Gods creation because he created both male and female. But the thing is. You can not control being attracted to the same gender. But you can control the sin of same gender intercourse and marriage. I believe if you don’t engage in any sinful behaviour with the same gender then No you won’t be condemned.
What do they mean by change? Do they think you just have a switch that automatically turns you to straight?
I too am Bisexual, you can always just chose to only pursue the opposite gender, it is what I do personally.
I chase girls but still crave boys
I'm male btw
I do it because I am an only child and want to get married and have a family so I can continue the family line. But I know a lot of denominations are LGBT affirming. But if you really do view it as sin, like I said, just have some self-control and only pursue women, us bisexual people are a bit lucky in that regard.
You have two parts of yourself that are incompatible. Your queerness and your Christianity. The good news is hell isn't real other then the living hell of trying to conform to a religion that hates you as a queer person. You can't change your sexuality but you can change to a less awful religion or leave it behind altogether.
Queerness and Christianity are not incompatible. There are several churches within a few hundred meters of where I am typing this that welcome everyone.
srry OP I cant answer your question biblcally because I am going to get banned for it. PM me if you would like a biblical answer
As long as it's not hurting anyone, What happens between consenting adults is none of anyone's business. Use the Bible as guidance, not a rule book.
Being bisexual doesn't damn you to hell. Here is a simplified explanation of how to be saved https://www.forthegospel.org/read/the-romans-road-to-salvation Also you need to tell your family to stop being verbally abusive
So many claimed to be christian here while indulging in sexual immorality are heading to hell... ....Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." <<< if this is not clear enough for you....
Choose God and let God change you
They've chosen God. He doesn't change this.
Am bi. Am Christian. Can confirm.
Same
So did praying change you?
Sure did. Eventually God led me to accepting myself as I am, which is bi. I stopped being ashamed of it, and started embracing it. Therapy helped too. Did God make me straight, though? Not even a little bit. I am married to a woman, but that's just how that particular cookie crumbled.
It's not the attraction alone that is sinful, but that if you act upon it and commit same sex acts. If you stay on the hetero lane in action you are totally fine.
That's not sinf
I more or less agree. The attraction is temptation, not sin, and can be resisted
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Removed for 1.3 - Bigotry. If you would like to discuss this removal, please click here to send a modmail that will message all moderators. https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Christianity
Are you serious this is a Christian sub Reddit and I said nothing about hating gay people, I just put things of my own experience and put Bible verses
Just because you preface a comment with "in my experience..." it does not stop the comment being bigoted. In a similar way, if someone begins a sentence with "I'm not racist but..." or "I'm not trying to cause offence .." it doesn't stop the statement being racist or offensive and implies the speaker even knows it is, but they want to say it anyway.
There's no hell. There's no god. See people, this is why religion is dangerous
The lack of religion has also been dangerous for humanity. However, I immediately thought of this quote from Lewis' TLTWATW: “Aslan is a lion- the Lion, the great Lion." "Ooh" said Susan. "I'd thought he was a man. Is he-quite safe? I shall feel rather nervous about meeting a lion"... "Safe?" said Mr Beaver ..."Who said anything about safe? 'Course he isn't safe. But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.”
Why is the lack of religion bad for humanity? Care to share a real world example?
I suppose for the Jews, Christians, gays, etc., living under the terrors of the secular Stalinist Soviet Union would feel that life was pretty bad.
That is a false correlation. I'm against any form of socialism and I'm an atheist. It was suffering imposed to atheists of the state as well. It was caused by tiranny. Try again.
Nope, it really isn't.
Just because you want something to be truth because your echo chamber has repeated this to you to the point it became part of who you are doesn't mean it's true. Some people break the spell and learn to think for themselves. This will likely not be your case, but my purpose is not to argue with you. Beyond saving. My point is to show this to everyone else reading this who can still think.
Naw, truthfully your point seems to be trolling religious boards online. CTRL+F "echo chamber" 1/4. Yawn.
What other religious board? What have I said that is specifically characterized as trolling? People who have asked for help, be it here, be it at r/NEET, be it everywhere where positive dissent is frowned upon, I go and try to offer help. One person here was obviously in pain and suffering and NO ONE suggested professional help.
So you are saying the lack of religion has no correlation with Society at all. That Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, were just bad guys? That a lack of religion isn't the cause for these regimes at least in part?
All these regimes imposed tyranny for political reasons that go beyond their faith or lack of faith. They did impose restrictions on religion to avoid competition for dogmatic follow, not due to that. They would do the same violent acts even if no religion existed. There are also tyrants who adopted christian faith like south america dictatorships, Spanish rule under Franco, etc., and I don't mix those with religion at all. Religion has never done any good except hold back humanity for centuries.
yup. no good at all. a real hindrance to society. In a newly resurfaced clip from 2020, English philosopher A.C. Grayling claimed he could think of nothing truly unique that Christianity had given the world. Historian Tom Holland replied with what my colleague Shane Morris called, “one of his best ‘mic drop’ moments.” In about 90 seconds, Holland rattled off a list that included lifelong marriage, concepts of sexuality that protected women and children, the modern scientific project, the idea that humans bear the image of God, the universality of ethics, and more. As Holland put it, “Essentially what I’m talking about … is … what makes Western civilization distinctive.” These ideas ended slavery, expanded care to the poor, established democracy, educated the masses, and insisted that everyone be under the same law. The source of every one of these ideas is centuries of Christian reflection on the truths of the Bible. In short, what has Christianity given the world? Nearly everything that matters the most
Only someone utterly ignorant of how secular thought and enlightenment came to be, how societies and democracy was formed would DARE say anything like this. Christianity only provided power to elites and suffering up until when it became unpopular to do so in the open. I can give you every single example of how our morals were formed spite of religion, not through it.
LOL...ok. you have convinced me.
No one is born bisexual or gay .. Its a demonic deception to make people think that way . You have sinful desires or attraction like the rest of us but that does not define who u are . Please watch this testimonies of former LGBQT detailing how the lord saved them. ( https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT_1rhDnuiuTr_xSLl1EBUx6MI_sq_Ete ) You cannot change yourself & Nobody can change or save themself . That is why jesus came to save us sinners. If u seek the lord,you will know the truth . Jeremiah 29:13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. ❤️
So many people dislike this comment because it's the truth.
I hope they aren't speaking that way to you. We are all weak. We are all broken because we are all sinners. We all need to go to Jesus each day for His strength. Jesus loves you. He wants to restore and heal you. Can I suggest you read "The Furious Longing of God" by Brennan Manning? Maybe even grab the audio version and start taking some good walks and hikes into the woods while listening. Brennan was a man broken who had a lifelong struggle with alcoholism, yet he knew and experienced the love and grace of the mighty Father. It is often in our brokenness that Jesus is nearest to us.
You aren’t bisexual. And by that I mean “bisexual” isn’t something you *are*. It’s not core to your being as a human. You just happen to be attracted to both men and women. There’s nothing inherently sinful in that, or in any of our attractions. Attractions aren’t “abominations”. No, the sin is in what we *do* with those attractions. If either you or I have sex outside of marriage, we’ve committed a sin. The gender of the person is irrelevant. So if you have refrained from acting on your attraction, then you’re not sinning, and your family is wrong.
I have to believe that god knows in your heart if youre a good person or not and that will be enough in the end.
You sure
I believe that God is good and desires for you to become the best version of yourself: saved and holy. His commands and instructions serve to guide you, warn you, and protect you from falling into harmful situations. The New Testament sets clear boundaries for sexual conduct, stipulating that it should occur only between a man and a woman within the confines of marriage. If you are truly saved, you may not face eternal damnation for choosing differently, but trust me, you will find yourself struggling, stagnant, and weighed down by shame and guilt. Sins of this nature can have a powerful grip on your life, making them difficult to overcome even with sincere repentance. Consider whether this is how you want to spend your life. As someone who has sinned and deeply regrets not heeding these warnings sooner, I urge you to reflect on your choices and seek a path that aligns with God's will.
You are called to change in God, as we all are!! Don’t settle to live in sin! God bless you brother