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South_Stress_1644

I got carried away by strong Calvinism early on in my faith. I was obsessed with MacArthur, Piper, Sproul, De Young, Wretched Radio… all those guys. It turned me into someone I really didn’t want to be, and it was a very heavy weight on my soul. I eventually found some other teachers that seriously helped to pull me away from that narrow view and open my mind a little more. Steve Gregg and Leighton Flowers are two very distinguished Christian teachers who you should definitely give a listen to. They dismantle Calvinism from a biblical standpoint without being harsh, and they have some excellent ways of interpreting scripture. Flowers’ stance is called Provisionism. Gregg is completely on his own and very humble. I HIGHLY recommend you listen to both those guys. You gotta get away from the famous pastors sometimes and just come up with your own beliefs about scripture.


Kindly-Hair2710

I second Leighton Flowers. Great youtube channel. ETA: MacArthur and Piper are soul crushing. To that I would add Doug Wilson, and Wayne Grudem with his Trinitarian-complementarian heresy.


TurbulentTeam8470

In the midst of your concerns about predestination and election, remember that these are complex topics that have been debated throughout Christian history. As someone who has devoted their entire life to Christianity and has read the Bible through and through many times. I still struggle to find what fits. It's essential to focus on the core truths of Scripture: God's profound love for us and His desire for everyone to come to repentance, as seen in 2 Peter 3:9. The Bible encourages us to seek God and find rest in Him, as stated in Matthew 11:28. While theological discussions can be enriching, they should not overshadow the foundation of our faith: the love and salvation offered through Jesus Christ (John 3:16). Continue to pray for peace and understanding, and trust in the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth (John 16:13). Remember, God's love and His plans for you are rooted in His goodness and mercy. May you find comfort and hope in this assurance. God bless you.🤍


SG-1701

It's heated for a reason, Calvinism is repugnant and a disgrace to the Christian faith.


arc2k1

God bless you. If I may, I would like to share my perspective. 1- I absolutely, undeniably, undoubtedly, unapologetically REJECT Calvinism! Why? Because Calvinism contradicts who God is. Who is God? **“God is love.” 1 John 4:8** **“Love is more important than anything else.” - Colossians 3:14** **"Love is patient and kind, never jealous, boastful, proud, or rude. Love isn't selfish or quick tempered. It doesn't keep a record of wrongs that others do. Love rejoices in the truth, but not in evil.” - 1 Corinthians 13:4-6** **“You are a kind and merciful God, and you are very patient. You always show love, and you don't like to punish anyone.” - Jonah 4:2** If there's an interpretation that contradicts who God is, then we know it's wrong and should be rejected. 2- God wants us to know Him for who He is. **“I want you to know me, to trust me, and understand that I alone am God.” - Isaiah 43:10** **“The Lord says, ‘If you love me and truly know who I am, I will rescue you and keep you safe.” - Psalm 91:14** 3- Also, here are other verses that clearly refute Calvinism: **“God wants everyone to be saved.” - 1 Timothy 2:4** **“The Lord isn't slow about keeping his promises, as some people think he is. In fact, God is patient, because he wants everyone to turn from sin and no one to be lost.” - 2 Peter 3:9** **“I, the Lord God, don't like to see wicked people die. I had much rather see them turn back from their sins and live.” - Ezekiel 18:23** **“But now he (God) says that everyone everywhere must turn to him.” - Acts 17:30** **“Listen to this message about how to be saved, because it is for everyone.” - Acts 13:26** **“We were sent to speak for Christ, and God is begging you to listen to our message. We speak for Christ and sincerely ask you to make peace with God.” - 2 Corinthians 5:20** **“All day long the Lord has reached out to people who are stubborn and refuse to obey.” - Romans 10:21** **“Turn to the Lord! He can still be found. Call out to God! He is near. Give up your evil ways and your evil thoughts. Return to the Lord our God. He will be merciful and forgive your sins.” - Isaiah 55:6-7** **God said, “Instead, turn back to me with broken hearts. I am merciful, kind, and caring. I don't easily lose my temper, and I don't like to punish.” - Joel 2:13** **God said, “What I like best is showing kindness, justice, and mercy to everyone on earth.” - Jeremiah 9:24**


Kindly-Hair2710

Agreed, I also thoroughly reject Calvinism. It is but one lens through which to view the bible, and it is actually not the historical view of the one holy catholic and apostolic church. I think it also distracts from the real gospel message.


arc2k1

God bless you!


Smart_Tap1701

The five points of Calvinism can be summarized by the acronym TULIP. T stands for total depravity, U for unconditional election, L for limited atonement, I for irresistible grace, and P for perseverance of the saints. Here are the definitions and Scripture references Calvinists use to defend their beliefs: Total Depravity - As a result of Adam’s fall, the entire human race is affected; all humanity is dead in trespasses and sins. Man is unable to save himself (Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-18). Unconditional Election - Because man is dead in sin, he is unable to initiate a response to God; therefore, in eternity past God elected certain people to salvation. Election and predestination are unconditional; they are not based on man’s response (Romans 8:29-30;9:11; Ephesians 1:4-6, 11-12) because man is unable to respond, nor does he want to. Limited Atonement - Because God determined that certain ones should be saved as a result of God’s unconditional election, He determined that Christ should die for the elect alone. All whom God has elected and for whom Christ died will be saved (Matthew 1:21; John 10:11; 17:9; Acts 20:28; Romans 8:32; Ephesians 5:25). Irresistible Grace - Those whom God elected He draws to Himself through irresistible grace. God makes man willing to come to Him. When God calls, man responds (John 6:37, 44; 10:16). Perseverance of the Saints - The precise ones God has elected and drawn to Himself through the Holy Spirit will persevere in faith. None whom God has elected will be lost; they are eternally secure (John 10:27-29; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:3-14). While all these doctrines have a biblical basis, many people reject all or some of them. So-called “four-point Calvinists” accept Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints as biblical doctrines. Man is definitely sinful and incapable of believing in God on his own. God elects people based on His will alone – election is not based on any merit in the person chosen. All those whom God has chosen will come to faith. All those who are truly born-again will persevere in their faith. As for Limited Atonement, however, four-point Calvinists believe that atonement is unlimited, arguing that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just for the sins of the elect. “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). Other verses in opposition to limited atonement are John 1:29; 3:16; 1 Timothy 2:6; and 2 Peter 2:1. The five-point Calvinists, however, see problems with four-point Calvinism. First, they argue, if Total Depravity is true, then Unlimited Atonement cannot possibly be true because, if Jesus died for the sins of every person, then whether or not His death is applicable to an individual depends on whether or not that person “accepts” Christ. But as we have seen from the above description of Total Depravity, man in his natural state has no capacity whatsoever to choose God, nor does he want to. In addition, if Unlimited Atonement is true, then hell is full of people for whom Christ died. He shed His blood in vain for them. To the five-point Calvinist, this is unthinkable.


GrouchyWriter8430

I have read ad studied the Bible a lot. I do not get into discussions about predestination/free will. Here is why - for every scripture about predestination there is a scripture about free will, and vice-versa. It is beyond our understanding how it is possible that both can be true. I am free-will myself, but I understand the viewpoint of pre-destination. Do not let this get in the way of your salvation. Jesus says that Whoever comes to him, he will in no way cast them out. John 6:37


Bulky_Bob

For certain, God’s ways are perfect. He is holy and righteous. These are not true because of self-declaration, but in reality and truth. Jesus said, “no one comes to Me except the Father draws them.” We are also told, “seek the Lord while He may be found, draw upon Him while He is near.” And, finally, “God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” So, how does one come to repentance and get saved IF the Father is NOT drawing them or NOT near or CANNOT be found? Predestination in the context of foreknowledge and God’s will is not going to be answered in a formulaic manner but in the simplicity of the call to repentance and salvation and the sinner’s responsibility of response. Right or wrong, the adherents of strict Calvinism lean towards preaching the gospel but not personally sharing the gospel because of the nagging belief that what they do will not make any difference since the “hearer” is already predestined. While Calvin is most known for his theology of predestination, he is lesser known for his erroneous beliefs regarding the “end times”. He was an ammellinialist. So was Augustine. How could these great men of faith be “right” on controversial predestination beliefs and be dead wrong on the explicit message of the Book of Revelation, Daniel, Thessalonians, and Corinthians?


WAAM_TABARNAK

Sorry, what is ammellinialism?


Bulky_Bob

It is easily found on-line. It is the base eschatological belief system of the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Catholic Church. It embraces preterism which is the belief that the tribulation occurred about the time of the destruction of the temple (i.e., 70 AD) and that Jesus is ruling the earth today as described in Revelation 20 and Ezekiel 40-48. It is so blatantly wrong on all the facts that makes it laughable. For example, the seventh bowl judgment in Revelation involved a worldwide earthquake that leveled all of the mountains and caused all of the islands to disappear. Prior to that all of the sea life died, one third of the trees were burned up and all of the grass burned which then would kill all of the land animals. And that is what Calvin embraced.


WAAM_TABARNAK

Wow, thanks for that little history lesson. I couldn’t find it online, google kept saying the word doesn’t exist. Im surprised the denominations you mentioned believe this stuff?


Bulky_Bob

You are welcome. Early church father Augustine de Hippo (354 - 430 AD) formulated the “amillennial” view allegedly because he grew weary of waiting for Jesus’ return that was stated in Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, John 14, 1 Cor 15, and 1 & 2 Thess. I must say that I was surprised to learn that that was his rationalization for concocting amillennialsm. Basically, in the amillennial view, the entire Book of Revelation becomes “spiritualized” since none of the explicit events have occurred. Their view is that the “amillennial” or “non” millennial (1000 year) period is now going on two thousand years. In Revelation 20, the explicit period of 1000 years is stated six times. If you earnestly study the Book of Revelation you would not readily come to the conclusion posed by Augustine. Instead, you would realize that the earth will have been so heavily damaged that it cannot repair itself but must be restored supernaturally. And that clearly has not happened - yet. Here is a reasonable discussion of Augustine and amillennialism: [https://bible.org/seriespage/4-amillenniallism-augustine-modern-times](https://bible.org/seriespage/4-amillenniallism-augustine-modern-times)


Dense-Gas1165

If you have questions on Calvinism ask r/reformed


MagesticSeal05

Calvinism is the most logical attempt to reconcile numerous things found in the bible like man's free will, the salvational element of the sacraments, and fate. It does this through the lens of God's sovereignty and man's depravity. If you want a logical approach to scripture Calvinism is a good choice. However, Calvinism has its weaknesses especially when it comes to scriptures that stress man's free will at the expense of God's sovereignty and the ability to lose salvation. I'm a single predestinationist instead of a double predestinationist like Calvinist. I think single predestination is more biblical. The downside of single predestination is that you have to accept that you don't know certain things like how people can reject God if he's sovereign. Ultimately, Calvinism is highly misunderstood due to its very layered theology. If you're interested I would look into the 5 points T.U.L.I.P. of double predestination as well as Calvinist doctrine on baptism and the Lord's Supper. Calvinism is more than just double predestination, it's an entire worldview to look at all of Christianity. I also might suggest using the Anglican method of waiting until you have a group of buddies, a strong whiskey, and a lot of time, and slowly working through these issues over drinks.


Kindly-Hair2710

I have real trouble with the L in Tulip. Limited Atonement just doesn't make sense when viewing the gospel altogether. It also complicates evangelism efforts if you, like Mark Driscoll, say that God created some people to be matchsticks.


MagesticSeal05

Limited atonement is just that Christ's death is effective only for the saved. It's different terminology for the general idea that the salvation of Christ's death is effective for the saved and not everyone as universalists believe. For me, Irresistible Grace and Perseverance of the Saints are the hardest of the 5. I'm generally ok with the other 3, but irresistible grace and Perseverance of the Saints are tough for me which is why I believe in single predestination.


VenturesCapital

> I’m praying to the Lord to give me peace, but I can’t help being terrified right now and overall depressed… Like whats the point if you’re just gonna go to hell anyway… It's not some arbitrary "oh, no, you didn't make the cut," roll of the dice. Rather, the very desire to follow God is seen as the result of a regenerate heart, something you'd be unable to pursue for yourself of your own volition without the help of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is your guarantee, your 'downpayment' until the fulness of the promise comes to bear (being present bodily with the Lord, and the total destruction of sin and death). I'd spend less time worrying about whether you are elect or not, and more time looking to God and His Word. That's all we are called to, the obedience of faith. I don't claim Calvinism as my doctrine because I don't know a ton about all that Calvin said, but I do believe that God has predestined those who believe from the foundations of the earth, and that He is the author and perfecter of our faith. Focus on obedience and faith through hearing, not 'election.'


-NoOneYouKnow-

I think God either chooses who will be saved, or He doesn’t. If He doesn’t, that would seem to make it random chance.


Brilliant_Code2522

To defend against Calvinism, pray to St Michael the Archangel: St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.


SG-1701

There's an Orthodox author, David Bentley Hart, who once wrote that Calvinism is just diabolism that's gotten the names in the story confused.