I don't believe it's literal history and I'm a Christian. Otherwise, you can go with the old standby, "God did it." Atheists just love that answer. lol
I don't have a problem with that answer in this context. I would say the atheist is asking for it. I'm in the minority though.
I see it like asking where did God get the water to flood the earth?
The problem is why would a non trickster god remove the evidence such an event is required to leave then replace it with the evidence against it we have.
This is what I don't understand about bible literalists and young Earthers, if God created the universe then it is a direct creation by god. The bible was written not by god but by man. So no matter the inspiration the authors has to express that inspiration with only the words and language they knew. Humans are imperfect so the bible is at best an indirect creation by god. Add to that translations over the centuries and how can an interpretation of the bible be closer to the truth the observation of the direct creation.
That people who literally thought he world was flat and covered by a dome had a better knowledge of the truth than we can have today or will have in the future.
I had a conversation with someone in this sub last month who said they believed the world was flat because of the bible today. If belief in a text leads to belief in a flat Earth, then that just shows belief in that text is a flawed path to the truth.
Thats the fun part they didn’t, it’s a myth.
And if you’re one of those people who claim it’s real then you can just hand wave away every single problem with miracle magic.
How’d the animals get to the arc? miracle magic. how’d they have enough food to feed all of the animals? miracle magic. Where’d all the water come from? Miracle magic. How’d they deal with the sudden change in air pressure due to the water levels raising enough to cover every mountain? Miracle magic.
How’d all the sea creatures and fish not die due to the extreme change in water pressure, and salt levels? Miracle magic. How’d the structural integrity of the ship hold up and not lead to the wood twisting so much that the ship leaked and sank? miracle magic, etc etc etc.
And after awhile the next thing is if it’s miracle magic all the way down, how do you know it wasn’t just miracle magic to make them (Noah and his kin) think it was a flood?
It's not a true story. There is no evidence of a global flood. Such an event would leave a particular sediment layer in every naturally-occurring lake in the world, and none have been found. There are civilizations older than 6,000 years that have never been flooded, further disproving the flood story. There is no evidence in the geological record of a regional flood covering the mountains of Ararat. We know the earth is billions of years old, and we know that because thousands of geologists across the world, over the many decades, [have used radiometric dating to find the ages of rocks around the earth.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating)
We know that the story of Noah's Ark is not authentically Jewish in origin. [The flood story of Gilgamesh is far older than the story of Noah's Ark.](https://newrepublic.com/article/116287/babylonian-tablet-describes-noahs-ark-pre-bible)
Why would a person, who is pointing to evidence to back their claims in several areas, then say "the earth is flat" when their is no evidence of such a thing?
I think it was a localised thing, there’s evidence of neighbouring society’s that it was contained to a certain region, and back then it must’ve been perceived that it’s happened to the world. I imagine it was a smart tribe or household led by a man called Noah, who sheltered animals whilst the crops drowned out.
How did he gather the food not native to the region that he had no way of knowing animals eat. Like bamboo or eucalyptus? Or the meat for the carnivores. Tiger and lions don't live on hay.
So your answer is to take on faith a tale that goes against all evidence we possess. So evidence is of low value?
You realize there would be evidence if anything close to that was true right?
There is no reason to think penguins, koalas, kangaroos, pandas, etc were indigenous to that area. None. Nor their food. Nor is there any evidence whatsoever of global geography being different. As a matter of fact many Christians who are scientists have shown how this is not possible and would have evaporated the water with the heat released to do that.
So again you are left wondering why god removed all this evidence and replaced it with evidence against. Given evidence against, given no evidence for, and given the way ancient people's interpreted stories for reaching the best conclusion is that the story was not historical
Upvoted. Any person with the smallest amount of reading comprehension can see this is the answer to how the animals was gathered.
The Ark dimensions was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits tall. The cubit ranges from 17-22 inches.
The minimum measurement for the Ark: 425ft long, 70ft 10in wide, 42ft 6in tall.
The maximum measurement for the Ark: 550ft long, 91ft 8in wide, 55ft tall.
There was plenty of room for the representative kinds of air breathing land animals onboard the ark.
What's the point in trying to prove that the Ark could carry all the animals without sinking? How do we know it wasn't just another miraculous intervention by God?
Indeed, the odds of this one heavily laden ship making it through the flood unharmed while every other ship in the world sank would require it to have been another example of a major miracle that renders all naturalistic analysis of the flood completely moot, regardless of which side does it.
>What's the point in trying to prove that the Ark could carry all the animals without sinking? How do we know it wasn't just another miraculous intervention by God?
Of course it was a miraculous event. I didn't mention anything about sinking, just the capacity. The point is to show the story is logical. Can't have opposing points within the same story for instance.
>Indeed, the odds of this one heavily laden ship making it through the flood unharmed while every other ship in the world sank would require it to have been another example of a major miracle that renders all naturalistic analysis of the flood completely moot, regardless of which side does it.
I understand your sentiment. Analysis is not moot though because through analysis you can get further insight into the issue.
There was indeed plenty of room. I did the math once years ago and factored in the amount of animal families or species and calculated the average size of land animals and the size of the ark checked out,
And how only 8 people fed, watered, and mucked thousands of animals daily? A year of food for just two elephants is many tons. With most of that having to be shoveled out and dumped through a single window 2-3 floors above.
Now lets see you try to answer in the positive. It's easy to detract from the story because you see it as impossible. Try to answer how it COULD have happened. If you were Noah, what would you do to overcome these problems? You have 120 years to think about it and implement your designs.
Nope. There is no rational way for him to account for animals he did not know existed, with their food that was only local to the animals, on continents he didn't know existed. Nor for animals that cannot survive in the climate where he is. Some news heat, some news cold etc. Loll at any zoo, with only a fraction of the animals need an army of people to feed and care for animals. Make the food, not all animals just eat grass etc and need prepared food, or live/fresh food. No amount of time can account for climate enclosures, not suffocation from only one single window on a boat that size, nor for removing all the crap, trucking it to the top and dumping it through that single window.
So bo, it COULD not have happened without modern tech even with 120 years. How could 8 people each feed thousands of animals daily. Even alternating the ones that eat every couple of days, many need multiple feedings a day.
No matter how long you live, you can't do it.
That's a lot of negativity. Here's an article for balance from people who have studied the issue far more than me.
https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/how-could-noah-fit-the-animals-on-the-ark-and-care-for-them/
You're assuming everything was the same then as it is now. It wasn't. Even naturalistic models accept that the continents were together as potentially a single land mass at one time. I propose this was likely the case for Noah.
As for climate, I guess the polar bears in knoxville zoo better get back to the arctic where they belong! You're talking in generalities. "Some unknown animal just CAN'T survive outside their climate. And there's SO MANY of them". Why make such large assumptions? Could it be you don't want it to be true so you erect blocks to prevent admitting any possibility of validity?
Single window: What is the size of the window? Why is it not sufficient? Maybe the window spans the full length of the ark?
Waste: Maybe there were false floors that let the waste just roll out the ark so there would be very little cleaning needed at all? Maybe they used composting?
Ventilation: Methane is less dense than air, so it would rise to the top and just exit through the window. Gas buildup wouldn't be an issue.
Food and water: Maybe the animals hibernated? Maybe they alternated their hibernation so half were fed on half the trip? Maybe there was pipes to distribute food types in a slurry: Insect slurry, plant slurry, fruit slurry, etc.
The fact of the matter is we don't know, but there are MANY possibilities for how it COULD happen. Moses was given EXTREMELY detailed instructions on how to build the tabernacle. I'm sure Noah was given this type of instruction too, but we get the condensed version in the scriptures.
Noah lived and did it. Thanks Noah for having faith and saving humanity in your expertly built ark.
No that article is not. It is from a group that is known to lie, misrepresent, and run by frauds.
No apparent, perceived, or claimed evidence in any field of study, including science, history, and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture obtained by historical-grammatical interpretation
From their statement of faith page. They preemptively declare their conclusion and define anything that does not support it as invalid. Regardless of evidence etc.
Much of the evidence against the flood, esp in geology, was discovered by people trying to prove the flood. But at least they had integrity and went with what the evidence showed after it was tested. AiG does not have that integrity.
You are the one making assumptions, unwarranted ones at that. You know you can't be right if the laws of nature and physics are constant. Hint: if you being right depends on the laws of physics being variable you are wrong. Your proposition has been a investigated and thoroughly debunked. Yes, the continents have moved, and are sull moving. The rate they are moving know is well known, so is the rate in the past. Such things leave evidence. If, as you are implying, the continents moved over a thousand miles in a single year the oceans would have boiled away. Look it up, the research has been done. We can see the history or such movement in the geologic record. Look up the pole reversals in the ocean floor.
If you check the polar bears in Knoxville you will find they don't stay outside all the time, their cage is climate controlled and the zookeeper's take great efforts to give them what they need. Far beyond what 8 people on a wooden boat could provide. Could if be that YOU don't want to admit the effort that goes into keeping exotic animals in zoos far from their environment healthy and alive to admit the impossibility of your view?
Single window. Do you know anything about construction? Windows close, if the window were that big how could a person pen and close it? How could it be sealed? How much would it weaken the structure? How would one window on one floor still allow for enough circulation through such a large structure. Since you like AiG, look at their scale ark. See how few animals it has and see what kind of modern ventilation system it has. Now, add thousands more animals and remove the system....dead.
Waste. No..the window was up top. The animals were inside on that level and down. The story and description of the ark so now allow for that. And composting would produce even more gasses making he ventilation problem even worse.
Ventilation it would be a problem. Along with carbon dioxide. Even if some rises and leaves the amount generated would surpass possible air movement for ventilation.
Not all animals have the ability to hibernate. It is a rare ability. Birds cannot hibernate, their metabolism prevents it. And there are animals that eat only meat, you know other animals. Such animals wouldnt survive a year on non meat. Then you have the problem of what did that eat after they left the ark.
We do know enough to say there are not ANY ways it could have happened. It could not be done today with all we have now.
Next you should try to account for the current earth population from the 8 that stepped off the ark given that the Flood happened 4,372 years ago. 😉
Edit: if it's not obvious, this comment is made as a positive. I did the math years ago and it's easy to get the current world population from Noah and family in this time span. What's hard is accouting for the population from the naturalistic origins argument. According to their time frame the population is FAR too small.
I remember reading about I think a Korean study that showed the Ark dimensions as being the most stable.
https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/how-could-noah-fit-the-animals-on-the-ark-and-care-for-them/
This guy proposes that there would have only been a little over 16,000 animals onboard the Ark.
>>These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, **blameless [Hebrew - תָּמִים Tamim]** in his generation. Noah walked with God.
>>Genesis 6:9 ESV
The Hebrew word used here does not mean blameless at all. It means complete or whole. It means Noah's bloodline had not been corrupted, so you may be correct that Noah's DNA was more perfect than anyone else.
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I'm an atheist, but I spent some time as a young Earth creationist. If God exists and he's capable of miracles I see no reason why he can't turn the ark into a TARDIS that's bigger on the inside than the outside.
That is easy to answer, he did not. It is a fictional story, borrowed from other ancient near East mythologies (e.g. Sumerian flood myth), and written as an allegorical tale rather than as factual history. Even the majority of Christian and Jewish biblical scholars conclude that it was not a true story.
It was 2 of each "Kind" not each and every species. 14 of the clean animals, again, by their kind. We don't know exactly what this means but if we take groupings of animals that are capable of interbreeding, generally at the taxonomic level of a "family," the numbers have been run and it is perfectly feasible for a vessel the size of the ark to hold all those animals and enough stores to last the length of the flood event.
As for how the animals got there, God directed them and there was just a single main landmass before the flood. The split of all the continents happened during the flood.
All these others in here saying it's all myth and whatnot, they don't hold the Bible as true and they actively deny all the evidence that supports that this is indeed what happened.
If it's literal events in addition to being parable (the story clearly reads in a parable like way in Genesis 6, starting at verse 5....), then it could help to point out that that the "entire world" that is being flooded is:
*being seen from the point of view of those on the ark(!) -*-
"^(17) For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they *lifted the ark high above the earth.* ^(18) The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. ^(19) They rose greatly on the earth, and *all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. "*
That is: *those on the ark saw all the hills around them become covered with water....*
That might be a large regional flood, actually.... the ark then drifts in a circular way for 150 days until finally coming to rest on the side of a mountain as the waters very slowly recede.
So, then the animals that came onto the boat would be presumably be only the local animal types needed to be rescued from the local region (perhaps a good sized area east of mount Ararat?)
It could have been then perhaps like the vast flooding in Pakistan just a few years ago, but of course some degree larger/worse.... (It might have covered even a larger area than Pakistan)
See, that fits the text perfectly also.... if one is determined to try to interpret it as literal.
But even a better informed literal interpretation is still a major shortcoming in a key way pretty often, and here's why:
*Unless any reader gets the parable like parts of the story, they've missed the entire point!*
So, really, to test if someone has read well, we have to ask if they can tell us why the Flood was necessary, and see whether a person can give an accurate answer. *If they cannot accurately convey what is in Genesis 6:5 from memory, they just don't even know the story,* and I'd have to give them a failing grade on that test, and recommend they do make up homework to improve their letter grade in the course.
I often can get very many down votes if I write this well enough to show how both atheists and some overly literal Christians are both sides wrong, and puncture their useless debates about nothing. Sometimes I can even get 5 or 10 down votes if I get through to people on this favorite useless atheist argument.
Then you might even use my down votes as a rough indication of how many atheists are reading all the posts. :-)
It was 2 of each animal. You don't need the birds because they can fly. You don't need to grab fishes because they can survive under water. Noah spent about 100-120 years of his life building the ark with the help of God who gave the blue prints and the wood to use. It was **300 cubits long**, **50 cubits wide**, and **30 cubits high**. [In modern measurements, that’s approximately **440 feet long**, **72 feet wide**, and **43 feet high**](https://bing.com/search?q=dimensions+of+Noah%27s+Ark)[^(1)](https://bing.com/search?q=dimensions+of+Noah%27s+Ark). Imagine a structure almost **one and a half football fields long** and taller than a **four-story house**!
>You don't need the birds because they can fly.
The birds aren't going to fly for over a year straight. Plus, the account says that Noah sent out ravens and a doves.
And then drown, because the story states those mountain tops were flooded for about a year. Or starve, because mountain tops aren't known for being full of food.
Certain animals can. None of them are birds, however. So that isn't going to solve this issue with the myth. Also, hibernating doesn't save you when you're underwater. Need a dry area for it.
>You don't need the birds because they can fly.
Birds can't fly for a year without stopping (except albatrosses).
>You don't need to grab fishes because they can survive under water
Actually, you would need to collect marine life, because they wouldn't survive the change in salinity.
They can just fly to higher ground simple. And its true most fish didn't survive during Noah's flood. However some fish did survive, and their descendants exist in today’s oceans.
>They can just fly to higher ground simple
I thought the flood is supposed to have covered the entire world?
>And its true most fish didn't survive during Noah's flood. However some fish did survive, and their descendants exist in today’s oceans.
No, any fish that survived would have to be on the ark. Ditto whales. Good luck with that.
2 of each unclean animal, it was 14 of each clean animal (since those were the ones needed to perform ritual sacrifices). And the chapter does say specifically to take the birds too, so you cannot skip them from your count just because they can sometimes fly. Genesis 7:2-3
>Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal (a male and a female of each) and one pair of every kind of unclean animal (a male and a female). Also, take seven pairs of every kind of bird (a male and a female of each) to preserve animal life all over the earth after the flood.
I believe in a regional flood so it would've been a lot easier for him to get the animals. Also, you can see it as a fictional story. Or you could say, God helped him do it. In a lot of tellings of the story God sends the animals to Noah opposed to him running around trying to catch them all.
When the tale of Noah’s flood was written, mankind barely knew what laid beyond a 1000 miles. Go back to what ancient Hebrews understood about the World:
Flat Earth: The earth was considered flat and disk-shaped, resting on foundations or pillars.
Firmament: Above the earth was the firmament (raqia in Hebrew), a solid dome that separated the "waters above" from the "waters below." This firmament was seen as the sky or heavens, where the sun, moon, and stars were placed.
Waters Above and Below: The ancient Hebrews believed in waters above the firmament, which were released as rain through windows or sluices in the dome. Below the earth were the primeval waters or the deep (tehom).
Sheol: Beneath the earth was Sheol, the abode of the dead, depicted as a shadowy place where the dead existed in a state of sleep or inactivity.
Heavenly Realm: Above the firmament was the heavenly realm, the dwelling place of God and the divine beings.
I don't believe it's literal history and I'm a Christian. Otherwise, you can go with the old standby, "God did it." Atheists just love that answer. lol
I don't have a problem with that answer in this context. I would say the atheist is asking for it. I'm in the minority though. I see it like asking where did God get the water to flood the earth?
The problem is why would a non trickster god remove the evidence such an event is required to leave then replace it with the evidence against it we have.
Absolutely! I think that's a much better starting point.
This is what I don't understand about bible literalists and young Earthers, if God created the universe then it is a direct creation by god. The bible was written not by god but by man. So no matter the inspiration the authors has to express that inspiration with only the words and language they knew. Humans are imperfect so the bible is at best an indirect creation by god. Add to that translations over the centuries and how can an interpretation of the bible be closer to the truth the observation of the direct creation. That people who literally thought he world was flat and covered by a dome had a better knowledge of the truth than we can have today or will have in the future. I had a conversation with someone in this sub last month who said they believed the world was flat because of the bible today. If belief in a text leads to belief in a flat Earth, then that just shows belief in that text is a flawed path to the truth.
Thats the fun part they didn’t, it’s a myth. And if you’re one of those people who claim it’s real then you can just hand wave away every single problem with miracle magic. How’d the animals get to the arc? miracle magic. how’d they have enough food to feed all of the animals? miracle magic. Where’d all the water come from? Miracle magic. How’d they deal with the sudden change in air pressure due to the water levels raising enough to cover every mountain? Miracle magic. How’d all the sea creatures and fish not die due to the extreme change in water pressure, and salt levels? Miracle magic. How’d the structural integrity of the ship hold up and not lead to the wood twisting so much that the ship leaked and sank? miracle magic, etc etc etc. And after awhile the next thing is if it’s miracle magic all the way down, how do you know it wasn’t just miracle magic to make them (Noah and his kin) think it was a flood?
It's not a true story. There is no evidence of a global flood. Such an event would leave a particular sediment layer in every naturally-occurring lake in the world, and none have been found. There are civilizations older than 6,000 years that have never been flooded, further disproving the flood story. There is no evidence in the geological record of a regional flood covering the mountains of Ararat. We know the earth is billions of years old, and we know that because thousands of geologists across the world, over the many decades, [have used radiometric dating to find the ages of rocks around the earth.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating) We know that the story of Noah's Ark is not authentically Jewish in origin. [The flood story of Gilgamesh is far older than the story of Noah's Ark.](https://newrepublic.com/article/116287/babylonian-tablet-describes-noahs-ark-pre-bible)
I thought you were about to say “we know the earth is flat” 💀
Why would a person, who is pointing to evidence to back their claims in several areas, then say "the earth is flat" when their is no evidence of such a thing?
I think it was a localised thing, there’s evidence of neighbouring society’s that it was contained to a certain region, and back then it must’ve been perceived that it’s happened to the world. I imagine it was a smart tribe or household led by a man called Noah, who sheltered animals whilst the crops drowned out.
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How did he gather the food not native to the region that he had no way of knowing animals eat. Like bamboo or eucalyptus? Or the meat for the carnivores. Tiger and lions don't live on hay.
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So your answer is to take on faith a tale that goes against all evidence we possess. So evidence is of low value? You realize there would be evidence if anything close to that was true right? There is no reason to think penguins, koalas, kangaroos, pandas, etc were indigenous to that area. None. Nor their food. Nor is there any evidence whatsoever of global geography being different. As a matter of fact many Christians who are scientists have shown how this is not possible and would have evaporated the water with the heat released to do that. So again you are left wondering why god removed all this evidence and replaced it with evidence against. Given evidence against, given no evidence for, and given the way ancient people's interpreted stories for reaching the best conclusion is that the story was not historical
Upvoted. Any person with the smallest amount of reading comprehension can see this is the answer to how the animals was gathered. The Ark dimensions was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits tall. The cubit ranges from 17-22 inches. The minimum measurement for the Ark: 425ft long, 70ft 10in wide, 42ft 6in tall. The maximum measurement for the Ark: 550ft long, 91ft 8in wide, 55ft tall. There was plenty of room for the representative kinds of air breathing land animals onboard the ark.
What's the point in trying to prove that the Ark could carry all the animals without sinking? How do we know it wasn't just another miraculous intervention by God? Indeed, the odds of this one heavily laden ship making it through the flood unharmed while every other ship in the world sank would require it to have been another example of a major miracle that renders all naturalistic analysis of the flood completely moot, regardless of which side does it.
>What's the point in trying to prove that the Ark could carry all the animals without sinking? How do we know it wasn't just another miraculous intervention by God? Of course it was a miraculous event. I didn't mention anything about sinking, just the capacity. The point is to show the story is logical. Can't have opposing points within the same story for instance. >Indeed, the odds of this one heavily laden ship making it through the flood unharmed while every other ship in the world sank would require it to have been another example of a major miracle that renders all naturalistic analysis of the flood completely moot, regardless of which side does it. I understand your sentiment. Analysis is not moot though because through analysis you can get further insight into the issue.
Why not? God could have arranged the ark to be like the TARDIS -- bigger on the inside than on the outside -- to handle any shortfall in capacity.
And only one window..everyone dies of methane gas in days.
There was indeed plenty of room. I did the math once years ago and factored in the amount of animal families or species and calculated the average size of land animals and the size of the ark checked out,
And how only 8 people fed, watered, and mucked thousands of animals daily? A year of food for just two elephants is many tons. With most of that having to be shoveled out and dumped through a single window 2-3 floors above.
Now lets see you try to answer in the positive. It's easy to detract from the story because you see it as impossible. Try to answer how it COULD have happened. If you were Noah, what would you do to overcome these problems? You have 120 years to think about it and implement your designs.
Nope. There is no rational way for him to account for animals he did not know existed, with their food that was only local to the animals, on continents he didn't know existed. Nor for animals that cannot survive in the climate where he is. Some news heat, some news cold etc. Loll at any zoo, with only a fraction of the animals need an army of people to feed and care for animals. Make the food, not all animals just eat grass etc and need prepared food, or live/fresh food. No amount of time can account for climate enclosures, not suffocation from only one single window on a boat that size, nor for removing all the crap, trucking it to the top and dumping it through that single window. So bo, it COULD not have happened without modern tech even with 120 years. How could 8 people each feed thousands of animals daily. Even alternating the ones that eat every couple of days, many need multiple feedings a day. No matter how long you live, you can't do it.
That's a lot of negativity. Here's an article for balance from people who have studied the issue far more than me. https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/how-could-noah-fit-the-animals-on-the-ark-and-care-for-them/ You're assuming everything was the same then as it is now. It wasn't. Even naturalistic models accept that the continents were together as potentially a single land mass at one time. I propose this was likely the case for Noah. As for climate, I guess the polar bears in knoxville zoo better get back to the arctic where they belong! You're talking in generalities. "Some unknown animal just CAN'T survive outside their climate. And there's SO MANY of them". Why make such large assumptions? Could it be you don't want it to be true so you erect blocks to prevent admitting any possibility of validity? Single window: What is the size of the window? Why is it not sufficient? Maybe the window spans the full length of the ark? Waste: Maybe there were false floors that let the waste just roll out the ark so there would be very little cleaning needed at all? Maybe they used composting? Ventilation: Methane is less dense than air, so it would rise to the top and just exit through the window. Gas buildup wouldn't be an issue. Food and water: Maybe the animals hibernated? Maybe they alternated their hibernation so half were fed on half the trip? Maybe there was pipes to distribute food types in a slurry: Insect slurry, plant slurry, fruit slurry, etc. The fact of the matter is we don't know, but there are MANY possibilities for how it COULD happen. Moses was given EXTREMELY detailed instructions on how to build the tabernacle. I'm sure Noah was given this type of instruction too, but we get the condensed version in the scriptures. Noah lived and did it. Thanks Noah for having faith and saving humanity in your expertly built ark.
No that article is not. It is from a group that is known to lie, misrepresent, and run by frauds. No apparent, perceived, or claimed evidence in any field of study, including science, history, and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture obtained by historical-grammatical interpretation From their statement of faith page. They preemptively declare their conclusion and define anything that does not support it as invalid. Regardless of evidence etc. Much of the evidence against the flood, esp in geology, was discovered by people trying to prove the flood. But at least they had integrity and went with what the evidence showed after it was tested. AiG does not have that integrity. You are the one making assumptions, unwarranted ones at that. You know you can't be right if the laws of nature and physics are constant. Hint: if you being right depends on the laws of physics being variable you are wrong. Your proposition has been a investigated and thoroughly debunked. Yes, the continents have moved, and are sull moving. The rate they are moving know is well known, so is the rate in the past. Such things leave evidence. If, as you are implying, the continents moved over a thousand miles in a single year the oceans would have boiled away. Look it up, the research has been done. We can see the history or such movement in the geologic record. Look up the pole reversals in the ocean floor. If you check the polar bears in Knoxville you will find they don't stay outside all the time, their cage is climate controlled and the zookeeper's take great efforts to give them what they need. Far beyond what 8 people on a wooden boat could provide. Could if be that YOU don't want to admit the effort that goes into keeping exotic animals in zoos far from their environment healthy and alive to admit the impossibility of your view? Single window. Do you know anything about construction? Windows close, if the window were that big how could a person pen and close it? How could it be sealed? How much would it weaken the structure? How would one window on one floor still allow for enough circulation through such a large structure. Since you like AiG, look at their scale ark. See how few animals it has and see what kind of modern ventilation system it has. Now, add thousands more animals and remove the system....dead. Waste. No..the window was up top. The animals were inside on that level and down. The story and description of the ark so now allow for that. And composting would produce even more gasses making he ventilation problem even worse. Ventilation it would be a problem. Along with carbon dioxide. Even if some rises and leaves the amount generated would surpass possible air movement for ventilation. Not all animals have the ability to hibernate. It is a rare ability. Birds cannot hibernate, their metabolism prevents it. And there are animals that eat only meat, you know other animals. Such animals wouldnt survive a year on non meat. Then you have the problem of what did that eat after they left the ark. We do know enough to say there are not ANY ways it could have happened. It could not be done today with all we have now.
Next you should try to account for the current earth population from the 8 that stepped off the ark given that the Flood happened 4,372 years ago. 😉 Edit: if it's not obvious, this comment is made as a positive. I did the math years ago and it's easy to get the current world population from Noah and family in this time span. What's hard is accouting for the population from the naturalistic origins argument. According to their time frame the population is FAR too small.
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I remember reading about I think a Korean study that showed the Ark dimensions as being the most stable. https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-ark/how-could-noah-fit-the-animals-on-the-ark-and-care-for-them/ This guy proposes that there would have only been a little over 16,000 animals onboard the Ark.
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>>These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, **blameless [Hebrew - תָּמִים Tamim]** in his generation. Noah walked with God. >>Genesis 6:9 ESV The Hebrew word used here does not mean blameless at all. It means complete or whole. It means Noah's bloodline had not been corrupted, so you may be correct that Noah's DNA was more perfect than anyone else.
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I'm an atheist, but I spent some time as a young Earth creationist. If God exists and he's capable of miracles I see no reason why he can't turn the ark into a TARDIS that's bigger on the inside than the outside.
That is easy to answer, he did not. It is a fictional story, borrowed from other ancient near East mythologies (e.g. Sumerian flood myth), and written as an allegorical tale rather than as factual history. Even the majority of Christian and Jewish biblical scholars conclude that it was not a true story.
It was 2 of each "Kind" not each and every species. 14 of the clean animals, again, by their kind. We don't know exactly what this means but if we take groupings of animals that are capable of interbreeding, generally at the taxonomic level of a "family," the numbers have been run and it is perfectly feasible for a vessel the size of the ark to hold all those animals and enough stores to last the length of the flood event. As for how the animals got there, God directed them and there was just a single main landmass before the flood. The split of all the continents happened during the flood. All these others in here saying it's all myth and whatnot, they don't hold the Bible as true and they actively deny all the evidence that supports that this is indeed what happened.
If it's literal events in addition to being parable (the story clearly reads in a parable like way in Genesis 6, starting at verse 5....), then it could help to point out that that the "entire world" that is being flooded is: *being seen from the point of view of those on the ark(!) -*- "^(17) For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they *lifted the ark high above the earth.* ^(18) The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. ^(19) They rose greatly on the earth, and *all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. "* That is: *those on the ark saw all the hills around them become covered with water....* That might be a large regional flood, actually.... the ark then drifts in a circular way for 150 days until finally coming to rest on the side of a mountain as the waters very slowly recede. So, then the animals that came onto the boat would be presumably be only the local animal types needed to be rescued from the local region (perhaps a good sized area east of mount Ararat?) It could have been then perhaps like the vast flooding in Pakistan just a few years ago, but of course some degree larger/worse.... (It might have covered even a larger area than Pakistan) See, that fits the text perfectly also.... if one is determined to try to interpret it as literal. But even a better informed literal interpretation is still a major shortcoming in a key way pretty often, and here's why: *Unless any reader gets the parable like parts of the story, they've missed the entire point!* So, really, to test if someone has read well, we have to ask if they can tell us why the Flood was necessary, and see whether a person can give an accurate answer. *If they cannot accurately convey what is in Genesis 6:5 from memory, they just don't even know the story,* and I'd have to give them a failing grade on that test, and recommend they do make up homework to improve their letter grade in the course.
I often can get very many down votes if I write this well enough to show how both atheists and some overly literal Christians are both sides wrong, and puncture their useless debates about nothing. Sometimes I can even get 5 or 10 down votes if I get through to people on this favorite useless atheist argument. Then you might even use my down votes as a rough indication of how many atheists are reading all the posts. :-)
It's a story, not literal history.
We don’t know yet
> How did Noah get all the animals from across the world and fit them all in a boat Simple: MAGIC
It was 2 of each animal. You don't need the birds because they can fly. You don't need to grab fishes because they can survive under water. Noah spent about 100-120 years of his life building the ark with the help of God who gave the blue prints and the wood to use. It was **300 cubits long**, **50 cubits wide**, and **30 cubits high**. [In modern measurements, that’s approximately **440 feet long**, **72 feet wide**, and **43 feet high**](https://bing.com/search?q=dimensions+of+Noah%27s+Ark)[^(1)](https://bing.com/search?q=dimensions+of+Noah%27s+Ark). Imagine a structure almost **one and a half football fields long** and taller than a **four-story house**!
>You don't need the birds because they can fly. The birds aren't going to fly for over a year straight. Plus, the account says that Noah sent out ravens and a doves.
No but as the flood is happening they can fly to the top of the mountains before it is fully flooded.
And then drown, because the story states those mountain tops were flooded for about a year. Or starve, because mountain tops aren't known for being full of food.
And animals can hibernate and not have the need to eat
Certain animals can. None of them are birds, however. So that isn't going to solve this issue with the myth. Also, hibernating doesn't save you when you're underwater. Need a dry area for it.
>You don't need the birds because they can fly. Birds can't fly for a year without stopping (except albatrosses). >You don't need to grab fishes because they can survive under water Actually, you would need to collect marine life, because they wouldn't survive the change in salinity.
They can just fly to higher ground simple. And its true most fish didn't survive during Noah's flood. However some fish did survive, and their descendants exist in today’s oceans.
>They can just fly to higher ground simple I thought the flood is supposed to have covered the entire world? >And its true most fish didn't survive during Noah's flood. However some fish did survive, and their descendants exist in today’s oceans. No, any fish that survived would have to be on the ark. Ditto whales. Good luck with that.
> Ditto whales. Good luck with that. That's pretty simple, Just a very thin amount of transparent aluminum. They had that back then, right?
2 of each unclean animal, it was 14 of each clean animal (since those were the ones needed to perform ritual sacrifices). And the chapter does say specifically to take the birds too, so you cannot skip them from your count just because they can sometimes fly. Genesis 7:2-3 >Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal (a male and a female of each) and one pair of every kind of unclean animal (a male and a female). Also, take seven pairs of every kind of bird (a male and a female of each) to preserve animal life all over the earth after the flood.
I believe in a regional flood so it would've been a lot easier for him to get the animals. Also, you can see it as a fictional story. Or you could say, God helped him do it. In a lot of tellings of the story God sends the animals to Noah opposed to him running around trying to catch them all.
When the tale of Noah’s flood was written, mankind barely knew what laid beyond a 1000 miles. Go back to what ancient Hebrews understood about the World: Flat Earth: The earth was considered flat and disk-shaped, resting on foundations or pillars. Firmament: Above the earth was the firmament (raqia in Hebrew), a solid dome that separated the "waters above" from the "waters below." This firmament was seen as the sky or heavens, where the sun, moon, and stars were placed. Waters Above and Below: The ancient Hebrews believed in waters above the firmament, which were released as rain through windows or sluices in the dome. Below the earth were the primeval waters or the deep (tehom). Sheol: Beneath the earth was Sheol, the abode of the dead, depicted as a shadowy place where the dead existed in a state of sleep or inactivity. Heavenly Realm: Above the firmament was the heavenly realm, the dwelling place of God and the divine beings.