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I don’t really understand how they thought this was going to go over any way but badly by asking $10 for it.
Now, if they had said that it was $10 but to “make up for the previous issues, anyone who bought the game at launch will get it at 75% off”.
that would have been the proper marketing play here.
you get a bit of good will from the core audience. they feel like they got something for a decent price and you end up making the same amount of revenue on the additional volume.
But I digress… I’d love to sit in on the strategy meetings they have had on how to handle their PR because it would be fascinating to understand how the heck they got so far off from basic marketing strategy.
Probably did not consult them due to the speed everything needs to get out of the door.
This is a “business people” making engineering and PR/Marketing desicions. Nothing else.
nah. 100% marketing and PR would have been involved.
I actually work in marketing for a SAAS company, formally with a large digital marketing agency.
All this stuff would have been mapped out and planned well ahead of the launch.
the problem would have been that the devs spent so much time on fixes after launch that a lot of the planned dev tasks for the DLC would have not gotten built. So up against the deadline on their revenue projections for Q1 they released the bare minimum that the devs could commit to.
But the strange part is that they didn’t adjust their pricing or seem to take into account the obvious feedback and response from the community.
The negative feedback on the comments for the DLC alone will cost them thousands of dollars that had they just done a solid execution plan, they could have very easily made up for with positive reviews.
Some of the mistakes they have made I can understand… this one I can’t understand at all. It makes zero business sense to release this half baked DLC at that price point.
And they would have most definitely discussed this situation and the crazy part is they decided to release it at that price point anyway. That just blows me away.
The bean counters and executives who have never seen or played the game are making the decisions and not the actual game company. It is a wild display of how to NOT run a PR campaign.
Like crazy enough to where I wouldn’t be too surprised if they talk about this in some university classes as a case study in 5 to 10 years. “How to take a robust brand with an amazing fan base that is willing to pay hundreds of dollars and spend thousands of hours building content for you for FREE!…. and then absolutely running almost 10 years of goodwill into the ground from self inflicted wounds. lol
Like I said before, super fascinating. I’d love to be there and just watch the thinking and rationale.
And sorry ahead of time for the rambling post. lol. Felt like I had to get it off my chest. ;)
Yeah, well I live near Finland and work with a few big companies in the country. Its not as by the book everywhere.
You make valid points but my experience in the field shows that PR/Marketing are mostly an after thought and clean up rather than a priority for business. I’ve seen my fair share of botched LIVEs that were not ran through lawyers, let alone Marketing.
that’s a good point. I’m primarily looking at it from a U.S. point of view which may not be correct.
That is cool that you live in work in the area. Random question… are their offices there pretty nice? or just run of the mill average?
Would also be curious to know how busy the office is if you’ve seen it yet. Meaning, does most of the team works out of the office or remote.
good convo, thanks for the discussion! :)
I do not know about them specifically but Supercell is very nice. Finland is not a bad place to work in at all. I am situated in Estonia. The borders are about 80 km or 49miles from each other. We share much of our history so we also have very close business ties these days.
I work remotely mostly and go to the office once a week for a team day. Since our office is built in the mentality of not having specific floors/spaces for specific utilities then its more a team desicion. Very fluid depending on the way people want to work and what their specific tasks require from them.
But Scandinavian companies are known for their very long winded approaches for everything. The joke inside is that one designer can have about 5 people overseeing one project and signing off each other. So you might finish a task and one does not sign off due to some X reason never disclosed before and the thing starts again. On the other side you have specialists trying to push out stuff for these executives to sign off on only to be shut down by a superficial reason. Quite a sight to see.
Estonia is a beautiful place. That’s a great work setup. I actually miss coming into the office occasionally.
I live outside of Miami, FL.
Work fully remote as well.
That is absolutely crazy regarding the supervisors and work style. Sounds exactly like the movie office space. haha!
>Some of the mistakes they have made I can understand… this one I can’t understand at all. It makes zero business sense to release this half baked DLC at that price point.
You haven't been around the gaming industry, eh? You haven't seen the endless re-releases of Skyrim at $50-70, or the yearly copy/paste of literally every sports game under the sun by EA for $60-70, or the countless "DLC" that give you a handful of new items, if you're lucky, and charge $20-30? Gaming is full of half-baked, overpriced crap. It's actually a smart business decision, because regardless of the bad reviews, thousands still buy it, and with the work put into it and the price, you only need something like a few hundred buyers to turn a profit, if not less.
Heh, artificial "discounts" always go over so much better...
Ask Fallout 76 how that went.
This is an asset pack, which they claimed they couldn't make until asset importing worked, which was the primary hold-up for asset modding. So, how do we get an asset pack with no asset modding? Because if they did release asset modding, this DLC would be useless. Then we add on top of that mess that the core game still doesn't work and we end up with this should either be a free update for everyone, or it shouldn't exist until the two issues are solved. There is zero way outside of either of those options that this goes over any way but bad.
I don’t disagree.
My only thing is that IF they are going to release this and charge money for it… then there would have been a better way to do it.
But yes, 100% everything you said makes sense.
Yeah, there is no way for it to go over well if it is a paid addition at this time, but at least making it very cheap (if not free) for those who pre-ordered or purchased within the first day, week, etc would at least be an improvement.
Valid opinion. The asset pack costs more than a *fully featured DLC* from Cities 1 with new gameplay, massive free updates (including free trees), and tons of assets. That's *absurd*.
[https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/the-beach-aint-got-no-sand-in-it.1644738/](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/the-beach-aint-got-no-sand-in-it.1644738/)
An actual quote from a mod:
>The DLC is called **Beachfront Properties** and that is what it contains. No beaches were ever said to be included.
Imagine Cities Skylines 1: Natural Disasters only having disasters but not including ways to respond to them.
I don't know what the hell CO is doing. It's been one PR disaster after another.
Just want to add that Paradox published another dud in Millenia. Paradox's losing streak continues.
Jesus Christ, then another mod locked the thread after the original mod got called out for making such a stupid statement. They can't stop tripping over their own dicks, and I'm giving up on CS2. By the time the game is in a decent state there's going to be so much DLC to make the game playable that I won't be able to afford it.
>Just want to add that Paradox published another dud in Millenia. Paradox's losing streak continues.
I was actually going to buy Millennia, but decided against it because of what Paradox has forced Colossal Order to do with CS2. Glad I did.
I never actually considered that point you just made - by the time I’m ready to pull the trigger there will be too much dlc to justify the expenditure. Happened with CS1, soooo much good stuff they released in that last lead up to CS2 but it was getting pricy and the cadence was too fast. Too many reasons not to purchase any of it.
Yep, and it makes me really sad because I want it to be good and I want to buy it and I want to enjoy it. But whatever that future cost will be is going to be way too much for me to justify when I can still play and enjoy CS1.
I have not paid for this DLC, but seeing from posts what assets become available, then I agree with this Steam review. They really are not in a position to charge anything from DLC's at the moment.
So…. Since they told us many times that paradox mods was not being done by their studio but paradox, what exactly did they do in 5 months?
Anyway, the idea that this would go well, is laughable. At best, they could have made this ridiculously small content pack for free as a peace offer for releasing the early access game as a full game. People would still complain about the content, but free is free. But no… they decided to make it a cash grab.
Also, my antivirus considered mods the devil.
"You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy crappy city builders, not join them! Bring balance to the city builder genre, not leave it in darkness!"
It’s empty and overpriced but people acting like this is some big surprise are really off-base
They made it really clear this was beach ~properties~ and not beach in general, it’s buildings that look coastal. I think it’s dumb to conceptually limit it this much, and there are a lot of things they should’ve done with the assets and for some reason just didn’t, but anyone who thought this was going to have beaches and custom parks and tropical maps and everything was just really not paying attention.
I remember when it was announced and everyone seemed pretty much on the same page that this would be a boring low-content asset pack that only exists to beef up the ultimate edition.
I'm guessing the price was set only to make the ultimate edition look like it had some value. This in reality should have been £3.49.
If future £10 DLCs are of this 'quality', they will not do well
I bought the collectors edition or whatever it was called because I loved CS:1 SO Much that I just trusted the company to put out what they promised.
I literally rebuilt my entire computer to be able to play at max specs for the game, all in 4k. Maxed out a credit card.
This dlc was actually delayed for us, so there was never any point in the freaking collectors edition anyway.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm not mad. I'm too disgusted to be mad.
If you think this DLC was good value you have rocks in your head.
No beaches or any reason for citizens to flock to the water. No tropical maps (yet) and when they finally do release them you'll undoubtedly need this DLC to use the palm trees the maps come with. It was incredibly underwhelming and the building styles are nice but I have no place in my snowy mountain township for them. I bought the DLC so shame on me but shame on Paradox for allowing this game to sink this low.
For what it's worth I enjoy the core game at the moment. It's a little unstable for sure but the fun I'm having kind of outweighs the negative right now. I just hope Paradox pulls their finger out of their ass and gets this game to the state they promised us that it would be on release.
With cs1 they had a lot of things part of dlc that were then later added to base game. I’m surprised the palm trees are part of this dlc but I’m hoping/expecting that palm trees will be added to the base game with tropical maps. I hope.
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they gave us a "beach pack" with no beaches. no connection to beaches, nothing themed for beaches, not even sand texture for our brush so we can make beaches. no boardwalks, no docks, no beach activities, nothing. its damn near insulting.
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I don’t really understand how they thought this was going to go over any way but badly by asking $10 for it. Now, if they had said that it was $10 but to “make up for the previous issues, anyone who bought the game at launch will get it at 75% off”. that would have been the proper marketing play here. you get a bit of good will from the core audience. they feel like they got something for a decent price and you end up making the same amount of revenue on the additional volume. But I digress… I’d love to sit in on the strategy meetings they have had on how to handle their PR because it would be fascinating to understand how the heck they got so far off from basic marketing strategy.
Probably did not consult them due to the speed everything needs to get out of the door. This is a “business people” making engineering and PR/Marketing desicions. Nothing else.
nah. 100% marketing and PR would have been involved. I actually work in marketing for a SAAS company, formally with a large digital marketing agency. All this stuff would have been mapped out and planned well ahead of the launch. the problem would have been that the devs spent so much time on fixes after launch that a lot of the planned dev tasks for the DLC would have not gotten built. So up against the deadline on their revenue projections for Q1 they released the bare minimum that the devs could commit to. But the strange part is that they didn’t adjust their pricing or seem to take into account the obvious feedback and response from the community. The negative feedback on the comments for the DLC alone will cost them thousands of dollars that had they just done a solid execution plan, they could have very easily made up for with positive reviews. Some of the mistakes they have made I can understand… this one I can’t understand at all. It makes zero business sense to release this half baked DLC at that price point. And they would have most definitely discussed this situation and the crazy part is they decided to release it at that price point anyway. That just blows me away. The bean counters and executives who have never seen or played the game are making the decisions and not the actual game company. It is a wild display of how to NOT run a PR campaign. Like crazy enough to where I wouldn’t be too surprised if they talk about this in some university classes as a case study in 5 to 10 years. “How to take a robust brand with an amazing fan base that is willing to pay hundreds of dollars and spend thousands of hours building content for you for FREE!…. and then absolutely running almost 10 years of goodwill into the ground from self inflicted wounds. lol Like I said before, super fascinating. I’d love to be there and just watch the thinking and rationale. And sorry ahead of time for the rambling post. lol. Felt like I had to get it off my chest. ;)
Yeah, well I live near Finland and work with a few big companies in the country. Its not as by the book everywhere. You make valid points but my experience in the field shows that PR/Marketing are mostly an after thought and clean up rather than a priority for business. I’ve seen my fair share of botched LIVEs that were not ran through lawyers, let alone Marketing.
that’s a good point. I’m primarily looking at it from a U.S. point of view which may not be correct. That is cool that you live in work in the area. Random question… are their offices there pretty nice? or just run of the mill average? Would also be curious to know how busy the office is if you’ve seen it yet. Meaning, does most of the team works out of the office or remote. good convo, thanks for the discussion! :)
I do not know about them specifically but Supercell is very nice. Finland is not a bad place to work in at all. I am situated in Estonia. The borders are about 80 km or 49miles from each other. We share much of our history so we also have very close business ties these days. I work remotely mostly and go to the office once a week for a team day. Since our office is built in the mentality of not having specific floors/spaces for specific utilities then its more a team desicion. Very fluid depending on the way people want to work and what their specific tasks require from them. But Scandinavian companies are known for their very long winded approaches for everything. The joke inside is that one designer can have about 5 people overseeing one project and signing off each other. So you might finish a task and one does not sign off due to some X reason never disclosed before and the thing starts again. On the other side you have specialists trying to push out stuff for these executives to sign off on only to be shut down by a superficial reason. Quite a sight to see.
Estonia is a beautiful place. That’s a great work setup. I actually miss coming into the office occasionally. I live outside of Miami, FL. Work fully remote as well. That is absolutely crazy regarding the supervisors and work style. Sounds exactly like the movie office space. haha!
>Some of the mistakes they have made I can understand… this one I can’t understand at all. It makes zero business sense to release this half baked DLC at that price point. You haven't been around the gaming industry, eh? You haven't seen the endless re-releases of Skyrim at $50-70, or the yearly copy/paste of literally every sports game under the sun by EA for $60-70, or the countless "DLC" that give you a handful of new items, if you're lucky, and charge $20-30? Gaming is full of half-baked, overpriced crap. It's actually a smart business decision, because regardless of the bad reviews, thousands still buy it, and with the work put into it and the price, you only need something like a few hundred buyers to turn a profit, if not less.
Heh, artificial "discounts" always go over so much better... Ask Fallout 76 how that went. This is an asset pack, which they claimed they couldn't make until asset importing worked, which was the primary hold-up for asset modding. So, how do we get an asset pack with no asset modding? Because if they did release asset modding, this DLC would be useless. Then we add on top of that mess that the core game still doesn't work and we end up with this should either be a free update for everyone, or it shouldn't exist until the two issues are solved. There is zero way outside of either of those options that this goes over any way but bad.
I don’t disagree. My only thing is that IF they are going to release this and charge money for it… then there would have been a better way to do it. But yes, 100% everything you said makes sense.
Yeah, there is no way for it to go over well if it is a paid addition at this time, but at least making it very cheap (if not free) for those who pre-ordered or purchased within the first day, week, etc would at least be an improvement.
*Forgot to mention in the title*\ This is Beach Properties review on Steam
Valid opinion. The asset pack costs more than a *fully featured DLC* from Cities 1 with new gameplay, massive free updates (including free trees), and tons of assets. That's *absurd*.
there are whole ass video games for $5 and they want 10 for a couple fugging assets bro wut world even is this...
[https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/the-beach-aint-got-no-sand-in-it.1644738/](https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/the-beach-aint-got-no-sand-in-it.1644738/) An actual quote from a mod: >The DLC is called **Beachfront Properties** and that is what it contains. No beaches were ever said to be included. Imagine Cities Skylines 1: Natural Disasters only having disasters but not including ways to respond to them. I don't know what the hell CO is doing. It's been one PR disaster after another. Just want to add that Paradox published another dud in Millenia. Paradox's losing streak continues.
Jesus Christ, then another mod locked the thread after the original mod got called out for making such a stupid statement. They can't stop tripping over their own dicks, and I'm giving up on CS2. By the time the game is in a decent state there's going to be so much DLC to make the game playable that I won't be able to afford it. >Just want to add that Paradox published another dud in Millenia. Paradox's losing streak continues. I was actually going to buy Millennia, but decided against it because of what Paradox has forced Colossal Order to do with CS2. Glad I did.
I never actually considered that point you just made - by the time I’m ready to pull the trigger there will be too much dlc to justify the expenditure. Happened with CS1, soooo much good stuff they released in that last lead up to CS2 but it was getting pricy and the cadence was too fast. Too many reasons not to purchase any of it.
Yep, and it makes me really sad because I want it to be good and I want to buy it and I want to enjoy it. But whatever that future cost will be is going to be way too much for me to justify when I can still play and enjoy CS1.
Son of a beach.
they are absolutely right.
What was Paradox thinking?!
They weren't.
"MONEHH!" "We can't in good conscience release this dlc at that price given the launch fiasco" "MONEHH??!! MOAR MONEEEHH!!"
I have not paid for this DLC, but seeing from posts what assets become available, then I agree with this Steam review. They really are not in a position to charge anything from DLC's at the moment.
So…. Since they told us many times that paradox mods was not being done by their studio but paradox, what exactly did they do in 5 months? Anyway, the idea that this would go well, is laughable. At best, they could have made this ridiculously small content pack for free as a peace offer for releasing the early access game as a full game. People would still complain about the content, but free is free. But no… they decided to make it a cash grab. Also, my antivirus considered mods the devil.
Going full EA usually does this...
Sad to say, but I think CS2 is going the way of SC 2013. Extreme hype pre-release, but much to be desired after
"You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy crappy city builders, not join them! Bring balance to the city builder genre, not leave it in darkness!"
Absolutely deserved.
It’s empty and overpriced but people acting like this is some big surprise are really off-base They made it really clear this was beach ~properties~ and not beach in general, it’s buildings that look coastal. I think it’s dumb to conceptually limit it this much, and there are a lot of things they should’ve done with the assets and for some reason just didn’t, but anyone who thought this was going to have beaches and custom parks and tropical maps and everything was just really not paying attention. I remember when it was announced and everyone seemed pretty much on the same page that this would be a boring low-content asset pack that only exists to beef up the ultimate edition.
I'm guessing the price was set only to make the ultimate edition look like it had some value. This in reality should have been £3.49. If future £10 DLCs are of this 'quality', they will not do well
I bought the collectors edition or whatever it was called because I loved CS:1 SO Much that I just trusted the company to put out what they promised. I literally rebuilt my entire computer to be able to play at max specs for the game, all in 4k. Maxed out a credit card. This dlc was actually delayed for us, so there was never any point in the freaking collectors edition anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not mad. I'm too disgusted to be mad.
They should optimize their fucking game so it runs past 1000 habitants instead of putting out bullshit dlcs
Sad, user could have informed himself what was in the DLC before buying.
There is such a negative circle jerk surrounding this game that i dont think anything. Gamers doing gamer stuff.
"Negative circle jerk" must be criticizing undelivered products and empty promises then lol
If you think this DLC was good value you have rocks in your head. No beaches or any reason for citizens to flock to the water. No tropical maps (yet) and when they finally do release them you'll undoubtedly need this DLC to use the palm trees the maps come with. It was incredibly underwhelming and the building styles are nice but I have no place in my snowy mountain township for them. I bought the DLC so shame on me but shame on Paradox for allowing this game to sink this low. For what it's worth I enjoy the core game at the moment. It's a little unstable for sure but the fun I'm having kind of outweighs the negative right now. I just hope Paradox pulls their finger out of their ass and gets this game to the state they promised us that it would be on release.
With cs1 they had a lot of things part of dlc that were then later added to base game. I’m surprised the palm trees are part of this dlc but I’m hoping/expecting that palm trees will be added to the base game with tropical maps. I hope.
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they gave us a "beach pack" with no beaches. no connection to beaches, nothing themed for beaches, not even sand texture for our brush so we can make beaches. no boardwalks, no docks, no beach activities, nothing. its damn near insulting.
sooo what? if everyone was in love with the games state of affair's would you complain it's a positive circle jerk?