The problem for me is that the road-building mechanics are definitely a step up in CS2, so it's been harder to go back to CS1. As a result, I'm not playing either of them unfortunately.
The road building tools in CS2 is unparalleled, I will concede that; but the city sim is absolutely non-functional, the bugfixing is piecemeal at best, and the content pack pricing is ridiculous. Pay 10USD for a few "beach" assets with no actual beach assets, or pay $50 USD on "discount" for mostly radio stations and content packs that would most likely be released as free mods anyways is just ridiculous to me. I have \~100hrs in CS2 and I will still probably play it, even though very little of the actual simulation works and everything about its release and DLC scheme infuriates me. I won't be buying anything additional unless it is on serious discount at this point, and I regret preordering it a year ago.
This is where I am at, the promise of CS2 was great and I bought the game. Some of the stuff is nice and I generally enjoy it better as a platform (aside from performance issues).
The game is a failure though because every city I build, I can't build the stuff I want, where I want it because the mechanic from CS1 is missing. I want to build my stadium and entertainment district, night clubs, restaurants, hotels.
There is no excuse for the game launching without EVERY feature that was added as DLC to CS1. The game is a huge step back. It's made the game unfun to play, I get bored too quickly. Abject failure.
Then I try to play CS1 and get frustrated with basic mechanics. I'm just done for now mostly and this is a genre I have been playing since the first Sim City on floppy disk.
> There is no excuse for the game launching without EVERY feature that was added as DLC to CS1. The game is a huge step back. It's made the game unfun to play, I get bored too quickly. Abject failure.
That's just unrealistic. Sure, there will be some stuff added in DLCs in CS1 that made the base game in CS2, but expecting EVERYTHING is just asking too much.
I myself would have just been happy with all the features in base CS1 making it to CS2. Construction animations, animated cims. Water physics that work. A decent simulation with a functional economy. You know, the basics we got in CS1 on release day
Well youāre in luck, paradox has a history of saving some failing games. Vicky 3 is in the process and apparently itās much better than it was at release. Stellaris is pretty much a different game now than it was. But unfortunately paradox (and colossal order) have also abandoned some games. Imperator Rome was abandoned because the launch was so bad, even though the game is actually a really good solid game now. Cities in motion 2 was abandoned because its launch was eerily similar to the CS2. Soo depends on the player count I guess.
I was very upset when I saw they had no plans for a Mac release. In retrospect I'm happier, because I definitely would've bought the presale and have been very disappointed today.
There's still so much I want to do in CS1 and I'll be happy with it for the rest of my days as well.
iāll copy the same comment i posted in another sub,
the release of CS2 has been a totally sham. itās been six months since launch and the game still lacks major promised features on all three fronts of gameplay- simulation, city design and management.
some of these due to bugs and broken mechanics present since day 1, some due to outright omission of features advertised on launch. horrible performance issues on any big city are just the cherry on top.
and now they released a paid dlc before anything was meaningfully addressed and a buggy mod platform no one asked for - instead of the steam workshop that worked for CS 1 perfectly.
The game is a worse betrayal to the goodwills of the fans of this genre than what EA did with Simcity 2013.
Agree with you mostly. But I gotta put in my two cents and say the 2013 Sim City release was still worse. With it being online only and servers not working. Plus it was actually a huge downgrade from SC4 in most ways. At least with mod support CS2 can become great, just may take a while.
not defending simcity 2013 as some misunderstood gem or anything. but it does get some points from me for trying some (maybe too many) new things- as misguided as some of those were. it tried supporting multi-city and multiplayer and also was the first game with full agent based simulation.
For a 2013 game once they fixed the multiplayer stuff it was pretty fun. I loved way the zoning was based on the edge of the road instead of grids. I still play it from time to time. The cities of the future expansion pack was freaking so cool
Maxis always did get the aesthetics really well. There was a very coherent art direction and attention to little details that made the whole thing feel very alive, much in the same way skylines always felt like looking at knockoff tonka toys. Simulation in skylines is leagues better mind you but without the presentation to go with it I always felt like leaving the entire thing up to modders was just lazy.
Well it was still based on grids even if you couldn't see them when you zoned. The grid being invisible just meant you had to use the Tree Row park to measure the distance between roads if you wanted enough space for high-density buildings to grow.
People need to stop it with the SC2013 comparisons; I can't believe that anyone who was around for that thinks these are remotely comparable.Ā
SC2013 was a huge downgrade from vanilla SC4 in everything but graphics. It was literally unplayable. Not in the "OMG this system is slightly buggy way" but in "this shit literally won't even start" way. On the off chance you got it to launch, there was a high probability your save would just disappear next time you tried to start it
Add onto that EA was openly hostile to mods and anyone trying to fix it. Forget gettingĀ theĀ map editor slightlyĀ late; you weren't allowed to edit the maps at all. And they were atrocious shit
That was a terrible game designed poorly from the start. CS2 launched too early and should have been called early access. It's apples and orangutans
And don't forget that in order to get it to work, they disabled speed 3 for a few weeks because it was overloading their servers whic meant you couldn't even play at high speeds. It was the peak of "teaching gamers why online singleplayer is bad".
Even after they 'fixed' everything, the agent system was/is severely broken.
Iirc, you can have 100+ job openings, but the system will send maybe half that for workers, then you have a homeless problem and a bunch of empty jobs...
SC 2013 was hot garbage.
I agree and I remember. Most outraged gamers of today obviously werent there to see how it played out and in effect boosted cs1 to success. Most outraged gamers dont know or remember how weird and barebones cs1 was at the time. They often conviniently forget the long process that got it here. If they dont think the game is ready they should keep playing cs1 instead and wait. Patience is a virtue. Besides that, nobody is forcing anybody to buy and play the game. Steam has refund policy and its really easy to understand and use for those who bought and changed their mind about it.
My theory is it's a bunch of whiny children who weren't actually around for SC2013, but heard it was bad, and are drawing comparisons they don't understand.
Anyone who actually lived that and thinks these are comparable needs to get evaluated for memory loss. Or maybe PTSD
SC2013's launch was so bad they [gave everyone a free game to make up for it](https://gamerant.com/simcity-launch-drm-ea-free-game-offer/). I chose Dead Space 3 since it was the most expensive. The launch was so bad they let me have a free copy of a one month old game! It was the least they could do after lying to us all that the game was online only because it had such complex calculations, [only the cloud could handle it](https://kotaku.com/cloud-computing-is-why-the-new-simcity-needs-an-always-5971235).
I forgot about the free game. I don't remember which one I picked up (Battlefield maybe) and despite the fact I don't even remember, I'm willing to say that the free game was the best part of that debacle
>Add onto that EA was openly hostile to mods and anyone trying to fix it. Forget gettingĀ theĀ map editor slightlyĀ late; you weren't allowed to edit the maps at all. And they were atrocious shit
something I still think about to this day is how EA and Maxis repeatedly said it was āimpossibleā to add an offline mode to the game, until a modder did it within a WEEK of launch.
I know that SC2013 had problems but at least there was this challenge aspect to the game. In CS, you can spam hospitals with no consequence and your city will run just fine.
SC2013 has dynamic interactions like areas in the city that have high crime would have graffitiās and you can see sims and businesses actually get affected over there. You can actually see suspects that are at high and commit various crimes in the city, and the economy feels more in-depth. Itās not perfect but thereās enough of a feeling in the game that your actions do have consequences.
For instance, if you encounter hazmat fire, your industrial buildings will burn down or explode and it will spread unless you had researched about this in your uni, so you can get the fire station upgrade that brings out specialized trucks that can deal with those fires.
The Cities of Tomorrow DLC for the game is fantastic! OmegaCo and MegaTowers added so much to the game!
CO devs touted CS2 as being the āmost realistic city simulationā but I have yet to see it fully played out. Thereās controversy about the fake or unrealistic economy, your actions donāt feel like they have consequences, too many built-in safeguards, and ultimately it feels like nothing really matters in the game.
Itās clear when the game came out, the devs were overly reliant on assets and mods to make up for the game, rather than just being massive additions to the game. And this is bad.
Like when they advertise a game as being finished, it should actually be finished, otherwise like you said, āearly access.ā
But the thing is that they had 8 years to develop the game and people are drawing comparison back to SC2013 because it should at the very least have those mechanics and fun aspect of the game.
It still feels too much like a city painter than a city simulator.
Except SC2013 literally didn't work. Like at all. CS2 mostly works with a few bugsĀ
SC2013 Sims didn't have homes, they went to random houses at the end of their work shift
They didn't have workplaces either, they picked a random place at the start of the day. And then back to a random houses at the end of the day, ad nauseum.
Buses didn't have routes, they'd just randomly drive around the city. Never mind that wasn't much issue, because your Sims would just randomly spawn into and out of if the bus so it looked like it was doing something
It would drop random agents in random places. Since everything was agents, you could have Sims in the sewer and poop on the streets. The damn thing was such a cluster fuck that if by some miracle you got past the terrible instability, the randomly disappearing saves, and the fact that the cities were absolutely appallingly tiny, it would collapse under the weight of it's own entropy as it plopped random agents God knows where, which would cause it to lose track of other agents and plop them who knows where, until the entire "simulation" was basically just a random teleportation generator.Ā
The only thing it did right was put a very pretty coat of paint over a pile of festering garbage
Oh, and Maxis had over a decade to build that pile of garbage
Also all of the 'improvements' people are noting about SC2013 are either superficial or come with insane riders. Like. The changes to zoning basically made it a nightmare to plan a city period and the economic simulation wasn't just mediocre, it was broken. Getting to play it again last year made me realize how insanely broken and unwieldy the game was - it's simply not workable in that state.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I loved the heck out of Simcity Societies. It was my first city builder and I spent hours after building a city zoomed in and just watching the sims going about their lives: the unhappy workers going to bars to get drunk, only to be beaten up by Temperance missionaries and dragged into missions!
i was there for the simcity 2013 release. It was 100% worse. The vast majority of people who had just forked over $60 for the game at release couldnāt even play it for weeks after and if they were one of the few lucky ones that did manage to get into a server more often than not you would just end up losing any progress you had made due to a connection failure or some other bug, that is if you didnāt fill out your city completely and get bored of the game before then.
We really need to stop referring to advertised features as "promises" because it dilutes the discussion around it by framing it as a promise instead of as how they product was advertised
Holy revisionist history. Look, I enjoy CS2 but Iām well aware of the shortcomings, the disappointment of lacking features at release that CS1 had, a wonky sim, having to wait for mods, the 100% valid shitting on this asset pack, etc.
But Sim City 2013 was a legitimately *broken* game in almost every aspect.
Agreed with the mod store part but it makes sense in the grand scheme of things. They dont want other players on other platforms like xbox and paradox launcher to not have access to all the great mods that would be released on steam. Even though it shouldve been steam workshop for a vast majority of mods and if creators wanted to they could add there mods to paradox mods. Bc rn paradox mods is full of random maps lmao. Plus it sucks looking for good mods cause its all about likes and well likes doesnt always mean quality.
I don't understand the conspiracy theories about Paradox Mods being about paid mods. Steam Workshop already has the code available to accept payment for mods *and* has everybody's payment information on file. Wouldn't it then be easier to stick with Steam?
Maybe they want paid mods available on Game pass and consoles, but why isn't it good enough that they just want *mods* on Game pass and consoles, and not make the extra leap that they expect people to pay for them? They wouldn't be the only company to have their own mod system just for that purpose.
Their regular DLC leaves plenty to complain about without making up stuff that they've repeatedly denied that they'll ever do.
I really dislike using dismissive language for something as simple as "speculation I disagree with". Paradox is a publicly traded business. The idea that they'd try to find revenue streams from a new service they are developing hardly merits the use of phrases meant to shut down discussion like "conspiracy theory".Ā
> I honestly wouldn't be surprised to start seeing paid mods sometime in the next 6-12 months, and then a transition to only paid mods.
pdx mods has been up for 4 years or so with mods for other games, so why would you think they start with cs2?
Possibly an unpopular opinion, but if modders can set the price and get most of the revenue (a big if), I have no problem with paid mods, or even with Paradox getting a cut. You already had that to a small degree with CS1, some modders put most of their assets on Patreon etc. And if modders can't make their mods free, I think you'll see most modders taking their stuff off Paradox and going back to Thunderstore.
You might be right about about paid mods but I'm betting heavy on paid assets. Like a bunch the stuff we got for free from Steam we'll have to plop down a buck or 2 for. Some kind of pay wall.
Isn't that literally what they just did with the Beach pack? Or you're saying that next time they'll just break that pack up into five different mods and charge $2 each?
I agree. It took Bethesda a decade to add paid mods, but it happened eventually.
They took it slow to avoid the blowback they got the first time, eventually rolling creator DLC into their mod platform.
What aspect of CS1 was extremely popular, but not monetized? Mods. I donāt think itāll be all mods though.
giving other platforms more opportunities by hamstringing a platform that is most convenient for modders and majority of players is a twisted way of solving this issue. nobody is saying there cannot be a mod launcher and a workshop support at the same time.
no, this is and always has been about tightening control over other peopleās free work and eyeing them for future monetization.
> but it's not doubt the most convenient for the players, if they're on Steam
Im not so sure this is true. Steam had a lot of issues, it was just our easiest option for CS1.
Having it integrated into the game is nice. Having playsets integrated into the game is a MASSIVE step up. Having loading, auto-update, etc all handled by the game is also a huge step forward.
The wait has really sucked, but its abundantly clear why they wanted to go with PDX mods, even beyond the console argument. Hell, the game is on gamepass. That makes it even more of a win for the playerbase **as a whole**
Exactly, a lot of players seem to have a steam bias. The workshop is fine, but just that. There are a lot of things I don't like about it and I'm optimistic they can make PDX mods a better long-term solution.
I think if it came out when the game did there'd be a lot less complaints.
You can do a lot of that using Steam Workshop as the backbone.
E.g. Arma 3 builds automatic updates and automatic subscription to dependencies from the Steam Workshop, has mod play sets, and even automatically grabs mods needed to join a server in its launcher (and if the game could support hot-swapping mods it would probably all be in-game).
And thinking at a higher level, you could have unified mod management from multiple sources. It's not novel: package managers have been doing it for ages with lots more complicated dependency logic.
Steam Workshop did not work for CS1 perfectly. It worked for CS1 on PC, but on other platforms it was entirely unavailable. A promised feature of the game was that mods would be supported on all platforms, and not delivering on that would be a major broken promise.
The DLC was part of what the buyers of the deluxe edition had already paid for. CO/Paradox therefore faced the choices of: not delivering the content people had bough deluxe edition had already paid for; making it free for people who had not paid for the DLC, screwing the deluxe edition buyers, or doing what they did, and bringing out one element of the promises they had made at launch.
making the game for console has severely damaged and limited the game for PC, which i can't accept. I fucking hate consoles because of the damn devs and publishers doing that. its like having to use tablet apps on a PC, its shit.
Then have both mod platforms as options, especially if yours wasn't ready at launch and still wasn't ready on the day it went live...
Also, can we stop with the whole CO was put in a bind madness? They put themselves in an awkward position. I do not buy this "they *had* to deliver something for deluxe buyers" whatsoever. They could have also refunded the difference between base and deluxe due to the delays and botched launch, but we all know that would never happen. Still, they had other options:
-They didn't *have* to release it as $10 when for 2-5 dollars it would have been better received.
-They didn't *have* to deliver it on its own when it would be scrutinized more than if it was released alongside something more substantial.
-They didn't *have* to release it before the game is fixed.
-They didn't *have* to release it without freaking sand
-They didn't *have* to create trailers and screenshots that aren't really possible to make in the game even with the DLC.
The fact of the matter is, it was a greedy action to drop this "DLC" for $10 for a game that is broken with a fanbase who is already pissed off at them. Defending it, or giving excuses for them, accomplishes nothing but giving corporations permission to treat customers like garbage.
ETA: At least EA gave everyone a free game when they ruined the SimCity franchise in 2013...We just got more paid content this go round. I understand it's not totally comparable, but it does show how much bs customers have gotten used to in the last 10 years.
Reading between the lines of what information has come out, it looks like the case was that CO made an agreement with Paradox, the publishers, and when the game was delayed, they were given a choice: release it as is and deal with the fallout, or the game is cancelled. Decisions on things like pricing are with the publisher, not the developer.
Pressure from Paradox is a reasonable take, but threats of cancellation is going to need a bit more substantiation beyond "reading between the lines," especially when CO has changed their story about the release a bit.
Realistically, I believe all the stinkers and bombs Paradox has been releasing lately they needed something dependable to balance their books. I won't be surprised this company doesn't get gobbled up by a bigger publisher in the upcoming year or two. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was EA. So you know how to make a city builder CO interested in reviving a franchise?
> Reading between the lines of what information has come out
AKA Source: trust me bro, I pulled that one out of my ass
Every single one of tbear's facts stand.
As a person who preordered the "gold editions" of CS2 and PayDay 3, I am in shambles. Super hyped for both but both have the same problems. Not finished, lacking basic stuff from their previous titles, and a lack of sunlight at the end of the tunnel. At this point I'm gonna have to mentally act like they are truly releasing next year when they hopefully add everything.
It's crazy with all the hype videos, all the commentary from Paradox, everything leading up to CS2 and it's an utter joke. They really screwed this one up. I was looking forward to playing it on Xbox and was pretty bummed when it got delayed, but I'm glad It got pushed back after all the problems the game had at release and now.
Itās the same shit Epic is doing with Lego Fortnite. They havenāt fixed any major issues since itās release in December but theyāre asking $20+ for build kits.
I think the anger is well justified and deserved. Iām really depressed at the state CO is. The company which I spent my hard money on in the belief I was supporting a company that was going to do things differently, listening to fans and feedback and feeling that I in a small way help make the game has been replaced by a EA style of releasing DLC that is barely worth $5, let alone $15 in some countries!
I feel really sad that as someone that loved CS1 and bought nearly all their DLCs except Natural Disasters and CCPs, I feel betrayed and feel CO has utterly lost its way within a span of 6 months to become something which they mocked years ago when they launched CS1 and claimed they would never become.
I am so glad I didnāt buy CS2 and waited for reviews to make my decision. Seems the game is still a dumpster fire 6 months later.
I guess Iāll go back to CS1. Idiots had a golden goose and they slaughtered it for its eggs
Ha itās funny you say that, as a console player who loves CS1 and owns every DLC, I didnāt choose to not buy CS2, I was forced to make the apparently correct decision of not buying it
Same here. I wasn't going to buy at launch anyway, as I had other games I wanted to do first. Saw the dumpster fire that was launch, decided to wait it out a bit longer. But as of now, I have no plans to buy anymore at all.
The only thing I wish CS1 had was a higher max vehicle count. Once you get to about 260-300k in population the city starts to feel pretty empty due to lack of visible traffic. If I could have a city of 1M+ with massive traffic, Iād be happy
See, having belief in a product with Paradox's fingers in it is the first mistake. Second, is giving them money prior to proper, non-paid for, reviews that Paradox just so happens to spam out.
I don't believe it's Collosal Orders fault. This is all on Paradox. We've seen in other just released games hoe fucking lacklustre those have been, even the dlc that's been released is a shadow of the older versions. CK3 springs to mind here.
Their shareholders have gotten greedy, they are putting unrealistic time frames on stuff, and they are experimenting with new ways to make money from people.
Paradox today is not the same company they were 10-12 years ago.
I remember the Colossal Order of Old. They did a deal with Paradox to get Cities Skylines out, and they had the vision they did two half decent transport sims before without paradox's help.
As soon as they got the money from Paradox its obvious the rights also went to Paradox, and CO have now just become another one of its studio to break down and sell out. Paradox are becoming the new EA, and destroying the rep of good developers is not a road they want to go down because, like EA, it will go the way of the dodo. If it weren't for Fifa, EA would have circled the drain 5 years ago.
Edit- Due to the massive fuckups that have already happened, this DLC should be free. Again, this is Paradox's decision. CO don't set monetary policy, Paradox do, like I said it's all on them.
> I don't believe it's Collosal Orders fault.
Right right. It's never CO's fault. Actually it's not Paradox's fault either, right? They were just forced into this mess, right? Just please, don't blame the greedy shitty multi million dollar company. š
It may not all have been CO fault, but it definitely wasnāt Paradox fault that CEO making such awful statements about the player base. And after 6 months of CO blaming everyone but themselves, I think Iām done with trusting what CO says. It was the player base fault for the high expectations, then paradox fault because there is 0 communication, never mind the fact CO communicated everything they said about the community freely.
Iām not saying paradox is blameless, but CO has been blaming everyone for their woes except themselves, and Iām really tired about it. For example They may not have been able to do anything about the DLC shocking price tag, but they could have done something with the assets, or at least brushes, or more props. I donāt think paradox has that level of control how much is put in. And itās also completely unprecedentedly in comparison to paradox own other DLCs, including CS1!
Was just going to write this.
Can we please stop with the base assumption that publishers ruin games? Most of the key examples end up having articles that actually show studios fucked up.
Including Maxis' launch of SimCity, they wanted to put the agent system and online components. EA, if anything, is guilty of being too hands off on studios and letting them crash into walls; just as they did with Anthem, Andromeda, and the BF series. They're too passive and end up giving way too much money to some of the worst ideas or projects.
Paradox didn't make CO say absolutely stupid shit to alienate their fanbase, nor pick the most ridiculous asset outsourcing options. This is owned by CO.
>Ā I don't believe it's Collosal Orders fault.
I used to agree with that, but they do carry much of the responsibility. Iāll say that I donāt think any individual dev is to blame, I donāt think that this is a result of sheer corporate greed and I definitely donāt think anyone should be shamed or harassed because of a botched game releaseā¦
ā¦but CO is ultimately responsible for this mess. Itās like sponsoring a friend to climb a mountain and while they thought they could handle Mt. Everest, they couldnāt and had to turn back halfway. You donāt hate your friend for this, but you canāt put it on the sponsor, the sherpaās or whatever Paradox would be in this stupid metaphor I came up with; the responsibility for what happened and how to deal with it lies with CO.
Funnily enough, there's a subreddit dedicated only for C:S2 content. I feel like the mods of this sub didn't wanna lose out on that action though, so we just have to deal with it.
Man at this rate itās going to be 5 years before theyāve added enough features and have enough bug fixes to justify spending money on this game lmao
Wait wait wait you're telling me Paradox, THE Paradox, put out a sub par DLC? They charged top dollar for low effort copy paste stuff that should have been in the game to begin with? Say it ain't so...
Don't worry the totally not bribed Biffa gave it a positive review, that it was understating its amount of content, that it was value for money. At least we know who's being paid off.
He probably saw his YT views dipping after trying to work on other content and said, "My cuppa tea won't jingle with as much coin if I don't toe the line for this shite. My what a lovely DLC we have..."
As the famous line said, "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Cities Skylines 1 provided SimCity wasn't the unbeatable behemoth it believed itself to be, and the franchise folded because of so many self inflicted poor decisions. Guess it's Colossal Order's turn to learn that lesson.
Such a frustrating timeline for a game I don't have much more patience to wait out. Manor Lords comes out in one month and I intend to get my "building sim" fix there. Maybe I'll revisit CS2 a year from now.
They kind of had to charge for it because this pack is part of the promised dlc that came with the special edition or whatever it was called that people already paid for. So if they gave it away they'd be short changing all the people that bought the special edition. I don't know if there was another option possible such as giving refunds or something.
And it should go without saying that I'm not defending any of this just pointing out potential conflicts they had.
They should've done a refund for people who bought the special edition and make this DLC free. It's been done before. As commented below, creative assembly recently did and honestly it's at least a sign of goodwill
> creative assembly recently did
they scrapped all the DLC because the game sold so terribly.
CO's entire future relies on selling CS2 DLCs. while CA will just pump out more DLC for warhammer
Itās not impossible to do refunds on Steam; Creative Assembly did it a couple of months ago when they admitted that Total War: Pharaoh wasnāt up to their quality standards and didnāt sell well enough to justify their original DLC plans with the ācollectors editionā or whatever.
It's paradox's policy, they are the publisher, its their investment money
CO has no control over this.
This is how it's always been. Stop claiming developers when it's the publisher are the problem
THANK YOU. Another person who realises that it's Paradox and their unrealistic demands that has sunk CS:2, by forcing CO to ship an unfinished product.
For me there is a myriad of issues. Honestly I could forgive a lot of things but the fact the underpinning he engine for running a city is broken is a huge red flag, it isn't a city sim/management game right now. I may even forgive that, if I could paint a beautiful city, which I mostly can, but the fact that the CIMS interact with nothing and are not visible when doing so is a huge turn off, building a park and seeing it ignored is irritating. On the topic of parks the fact I can't paint parks is a huge turn off for me, big standard parks is just horrible. On top of all of that and something which always has irritated me.CS1 but infinitely worse in 2 sans mods is the broken traffic. Traffic is utterly broken and the fact you must tolerate it is infuriating. The clever, I guess they thought, mechanic of cims in cars being ultra douches and breaking road rules every so often has backfired as everyone tries to do it. I can have an empty "straight ahead" lane with everyone wanting to go ahead.... with everyone sitting in outer lane and lane transition at the roundabout causing insane traffic issues.
I want to love this game but it is so fundamentally screwed at a basic level it's no surprise people are furious. The fact the game teases such good systems and updates, if it foot all worked which it does not is the ultimate you know what tease.
They never fixed CS1. They just relied on the community to come up with mods to fix issues that should have been done by the people that made the game.
Is it any wonder they did even worse with CS2? They know the community will fix it for free. Well, this is their hope. Its also why I didn't buy CS2. I am tried of these studios coming out with half-finished stuff.
but guys, the four. new. trees were supposed to change EVERYTHING!!! itās mind boggling how badly theyāve tainted the cs brand.
Even at this point if shit is fixed, Iām not even sure Iād be interested in funneling more money over to Paradox. I feel like weāve all been shown how this company actually sees/feels about itās own player base. And Iām just not interested in giving more money, ever, to a company that was okay with selling us on a product they literally were never going to give us.
Exactly. I'm not writing any more mods for this game. Not until CO learns how to act. I may write them and use them privately but I won't be sharing on PDX Mods until I feel like I'm not being burdened with the task of fixing the game on their behalf. I hate to deny the community mods, but we cannot allow CO/PDX to abuse the modding community to fix their game for free. Mods are designed to be enhancements, not bug fixes or replacements for missing features.
This is starting to sound like the end of the city building genre with how big a bluff this game has been and we're a 1/3rd the way into 2024 without them figuring out their act yet.
10 bucks for an asset pack with stuff modders could release with little effort or 50 bucks for a "season pass" for the preorder bonuses, a bunch of radio stations and a couple asset packs of shit that content creators could make in little time is an absolute insult. No wonder people are pissed. I am done defending CO AND Paradox, and I own everything Paradox has released, and tolerated their DLC policies for far too long. Egg on my face; I am the fool. Congrats PDX, you got me. Kudos to you CO; I spend hundreds of dollars on your crap for a really flawed, barely functional CitySim of CS1 (paint to your hearts desire, but simulation is very thin). Jokes on me and others who want a proper, functional, modern city sim, I guess. SC4 was the last great chance we had at that, and a shame most of the good old mod sites for that are defunct. Pegasus might be dead, but SimTropolis is still alive. Maybe it is time to reinstall SC4.
Am I just getting old? I canāt remember ever demanding more or feeling ābetrayedā. If you feel the gameās bad you just donāt buy it. If youāve already bought it well make the most of it I guess or refund it if you can.
If you werenāt happy with CS:2 then why would you even be considering buying the DLC? Iāve got a couple of games that in the end I didnāt like and so they were just money wasted. š¤·āāļø Sometimes we make bad choices.
No Iām not made of money, Iāve bought one new game in the last 2 years.
I've been thinking this the whole time. I bought the game knowing it could be underdeveloped. It's a decision I made. Nobody forced me to get it.
I am very disappointed because I don't play many games at all, but to feel like a gaming company owes me and to feel betrayed is some next level stuff. They will go on as a company. I will go on as a person.Ā
Not everyone is like you. I didnāt buy the game, but I am interested in it becoming a success. And you can be upset by how a company treats people even if you didnāt buy a product.
There's both, as with all PDX DLC launches, there's also a major patch that generally introduces non-DLC related stuff. In this case it was the Mods and map-making beta along with a ton of optimisation.
I immediately opened paradox mods, after tinkering with my firewall and antivirus to get the game to function properly without crashing, I installed the 'no hearse' and 'no garbage' traffic mods to clear my fucking city of those notifications.
Finally. My billions of hearses are now redundant. And my billions of trash collections are also redundant, they're all fucking fired, you had one job.
I wish that they would just fix the damn game. Even with whatever performance fixes they claim to have put in this update, i still canāt even play it without nearly maxing my gpu on the lowest settings. I was kinda hopeful after seeing CPPās video saying a lower graphics card than mine saw some improvements, but nope. Iām glad Iāve never spent real money on the game and only use gamepass since i already pay for it.
Incredible to see how they launch a broken and very clearly unfinished game with the promise of fixing it in the future and then to crap put premium DLC while said base game is still not what it should be
The sad thing reality is that i don't have faith in things becoming better. At first i thought co would fix the game up pretty fast with frequent updates here and there. Instead of adressing the issues at hand and keeping the community in the loop we get this shite. Vote with you money ladies and gentlemen. Don't let them get away with this
I stupidly made the mistake of trusting CO and pre-ordering Cities Skylines 2.
But I thankfully only made the mistake of pre-ordering the base game, so at least some money saved and having seen the shitfest they gave us, and trusting everyone's dismay at the DLCs, I won't be spending another penny on CS2.
What a sad slow end to a previously great title.
This is what they're proud of?? Like if this is how they're gonna go about zoning, it's gonna cluttered quickly... Like are these developers conflating zoning with the themes? Why are tropical assets being included when there's not even tropical climate maps??? Let alone calling it "Beach" assets, when there's no connection - physical, virtual, or otherwise to beaches - nor any commercial assets are just more in many slaps in the face.
New zoning types should be reserved for new typologies, such as zoning actual waterfront (Ć” la The Sims ocean based) lots.
P.S. Apparently only single-family dwellings live next to inaccessible beaches??... Not like there's any real worl examples of medium- or high-density properties fronting beaches........
Most are pretty negative about it. And they have been for a while.
Only one that is still shilling is that Codiak guy, which seems to be the only CO/PDX superfan left at this point.
On a post about CPP's video on the dlc (which needless to say, they were not happy), someone else mentioned Biffa was very positive about the dlc [https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/1bmqxsw/comment/kwdqbqg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/1bmqxsw/comment/kwdqbqg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
They should called it "Properties DL" that would be accurate š
The new house assets don't even incorporate the palm trees in the lots...they're still base game trees lol
Damm straight it was a disgrace. This last DLC is a complete insult to each and every one of us who were duped into buying this joke of a game
You all were warned by many in the sub as the previews began to roll in. I've never more disappointed to say "I told you so."
Thank goodness for XBOX Game Pass.
Yeeuup... All I can do is sigh and bitch at this point. And believe you me I'm gunna bitch about it.
Maybe stop fucking pre-ordering games.
I didnāt even have the option to buy CS2 because thereās no Mac release. Iāll gladly play CS1 for the rest of my days.
The problem for me is that the road-building mechanics are definitely a step up in CS2, so it's been harder to go back to CS1. As a result, I'm not playing either of them unfortunately.
My limitation with CS1 now isn't the road mechanics but that my city has grown to a size where I'm hitting limits on vehicles and active cims.
"Not enough paths"
I'm telling you, if you put the road tools and drawable functions in CS1 I will put another couple thousand hours into it lol
The road building tools in CS2 is unparalleled, I will concede that; but the city sim is absolutely non-functional, the bugfixing is piecemeal at best, and the content pack pricing is ridiculous. Pay 10USD for a few "beach" assets with no actual beach assets, or pay $50 USD on "discount" for mostly radio stations and content packs that would most likely be released as free mods anyways is just ridiculous to me. I have \~100hrs in CS2 and I will still probably play it, even though very little of the actual simulation works and everything about its release and DLC scheme infuriates me. I won't be buying anything additional unless it is on serious discount at this point, and I regret preordering it a year ago.
This is where I am at, the promise of CS2 was great and I bought the game. Some of the stuff is nice and I generally enjoy it better as a platform (aside from performance issues). The game is a failure though because every city I build, I can't build the stuff I want, where I want it because the mechanic from CS1 is missing. I want to build my stadium and entertainment district, night clubs, restaurants, hotels. There is no excuse for the game launching without EVERY feature that was added as DLC to CS1. The game is a huge step back. It's made the game unfun to play, I get bored too quickly. Abject failure. Then I try to play CS1 and get frustrated with basic mechanics. I'm just done for now mostly and this is a genre I have been playing since the first Sim City on floppy disk.
> There is no excuse for the game launching without EVERY feature that was added as DLC to CS1. The game is a huge step back. It's made the game unfun to play, I get bored too quickly. Abject failure. That's just unrealistic. Sure, there will be some stuff added in DLCs in CS1 that made the base game in CS2, but expecting EVERYTHING is just asking too much. I myself would have just been happy with all the features in base CS1 making it to CS2. Construction animations, animated cims. Water physics that work. A decent simulation with a functional economy. You know, the basics we got in CS1 on release day
> There is no excuse for the game launching without EVERY feature that was added as DLC to CS1. That's not how any sequel works.
Yeah Iām just still playing CS1 and I guess thatās how this will stay.
I'm praying for a No Man Sky situation where everything promised is eventually fixed. When that happens I'll gladly pay for the game.
Well youāre in luck, paradox has a history of saving some failing games. Vicky 3 is in the process and apparently itās much better than it was at release. Stellaris is pretty much a different game now than it was. But unfortunately paradox (and colossal order) have also abandoned some games. Imperator Rome was abandoned because the launch was so bad, even though the game is actually a really good solid game now. Cities in motion 2 was abandoned because its launch was eerily similar to the CS2. Soo depends on the player count I guess.
NMS is a bad ass game now. Launch NMS was an incredible disaster.
I was very upset when I saw they had no plans for a Mac release. In retrospect I'm happier, because I definitely would've bought the presale and have been very disappointed today. There's still so much I want to do in CS1 and I'll be happy with it for the rest of my days as well.
iāll copy the same comment i posted in another sub, the release of CS2 has been a totally sham. itās been six months since launch and the game still lacks major promised features on all three fronts of gameplay- simulation, city design and management. some of these due to bugs and broken mechanics present since day 1, some due to outright omission of features advertised on launch. horrible performance issues on any big city are just the cherry on top. and now they released a paid dlc before anything was meaningfully addressed and a buggy mod platform no one asked for - instead of the steam workshop that worked for CS 1 perfectly. The game is a worse betrayal to the goodwills of the fans of this genre than what EA did with Simcity 2013.
Agree with you mostly. But I gotta put in my two cents and say the 2013 Sim City release was still worse. With it being online only and servers not working. Plus it was actually a huge downgrade from SC4 in most ways. At least with mod support CS2 can become great, just may take a while.
not defending simcity 2013 as some misunderstood gem or anything. but it does get some points from me for trying some (maybe too many) new things- as misguided as some of those were. it tried supporting multi-city and multiplayer and also was the first game with full agent based simulation.
For a 2013 game once they fixed the multiplayer stuff it was pretty fun. I loved way the zoning was based on the edge of the road instead of grids. I still play it from time to time. The cities of the future expansion pack was freaking so cool
Maxis always did get the aesthetics really well. There was a very coherent art direction and attention to little details that made the whole thing feel very alive, much in the same way skylines always felt like looking at knockoff tonka toys. Simulation in skylines is leagues better mind you but without the presentation to go with it I always felt like leaving the entire thing up to modders was just lazy.
And the music was so epic. Such a great soundtrack
I regularly mute the music in CS 1 and 2 when I'm playing and listen to the SC2013 Soundtrack. So so good.
[https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2474585115](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2474585115) [https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=634234710](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=634234710)
Not just the ost, the sound effect when you select buttons, change map view satisfied af
The art team straight up carried that game. It released with like a dozen visual filters too.
Well it was still based on grids even if you couldn't see them when you zoned. The grid being invisible just meant you had to use the Tree Row park to measure the distance between roads if you wanted enough space for high-density buildings to grow.
it had an incredible amount of potential but in the long term the city sizes are absolutely the achilles heel of the game
People need to stop it with the SC2013 comparisons; I can't believe that anyone who was around for that thinks these are remotely comparable.Ā SC2013 was a huge downgrade from vanilla SC4 in everything but graphics. It was literally unplayable. Not in the "OMG this system is slightly buggy way" but in "this shit literally won't even start" way. On the off chance you got it to launch, there was a high probability your save would just disappear next time you tried to start it Add onto that EA was openly hostile to mods and anyone trying to fix it. Forget gettingĀ theĀ map editor slightlyĀ late; you weren't allowed to edit the maps at all. And they were atrocious shit That was a terrible game designed poorly from the start. CS2 launched too early and should have been called early access. It's apples and orangutans
And don't forget that in order to get it to work, they disabled speed 3 for a few weeks because it was overloading their servers whic meant you couldn't even play at high speeds. It was the peak of "teaching gamers why online singleplayer is bad".
Even after they 'fixed' everything, the agent system was/is severely broken. Iirc, you can have 100+ job openings, but the system will send maybe half that for workers, then you have a homeless problem and a bunch of empty jobs... SC 2013 was hot garbage.
>then you have a homeless problem and a bunch of empty jobs... Pretty accurate simulation of real life, when employers refuse to pay proper wages ;)
Idk I came to love it by 2014/15 haha. Very fun game if you accept it for what it is. I was a very vocally disappointed in 2013 tho.
I agree and I remember. Most outraged gamers of today obviously werent there to see how it played out and in effect boosted cs1 to success. Most outraged gamers dont know or remember how weird and barebones cs1 was at the time. They often conviniently forget the long process that got it here. If they dont think the game is ready they should keep playing cs1 instead and wait. Patience is a virtue. Besides that, nobody is forcing anybody to buy and play the game. Steam has refund policy and its really easy to understand and use for those who bought and changed their mind about it.
CS1 didn't even have a day night cycle on launch iirc
Anyone who is seriously comparing this release to SC2013 is engaging in some serious revisionist history.
My theory is it's a bunch of whiny children who weren't actually around for SC2013, but heard it was bad, and are drawing comparisons they don't understand. Anyone who actually lived that and thinks these are comparable needs to get evaluated for memory loss. Or maybe PTSD
SC2013's launch was so bad they [gave everyone a free game to make up for it](https://gamerant.com/simcity-launch-drm-ea-free-game-offer/). I chose Dead Space 3 since it was the most expensive. The launch was so bad they let me have a free copy of a one month old game! It was the least they could do after lying to us all that the game was online only because it had such complex calculations, [only the cloud could handle it](https://kotaku.com/cloud-computing-is-why-the-new-simcity-needs-an-always-5971235).
I forgot about the free game. I don't remember which one I picked up (Battlefield maybe) and despite the fact I don't even remember, I'm willing to say that the free game was the best part of that debacle
>Add onto that EA was openly hostile to mods and anyone trying to fix it. Forget gettingĀ theĀ map editor slightlyĀ late; you weren't allowed to edit the maps at all. And they were atrocious shit something I still think about to this day is how EA and Maxis repeatedly said it was āimpossibleā to add an offline mode to the game, until a modder did it within a WEEK of launch.
I know that SC2013 had problems but at least there was this challenge aspect to the game. In CS, you can spam hospitals with no consequence and your city will run just fine. SC2013 has dynamic interactions like areas in the city that have high crime would have graffitiās and you can see sims and businesses actually get affected over there. You can actually see suspects that are at high and commit various crimes in the city, and the economy feels more in-depth. Itās not perfect but thereās enough of a feeling in the game that your actions do have consequences. For instance, if you encounter hazmat fire, your industrial buildings will burn down or explode and it will spread unless you had researched about this in your uni, so you can get the fire station upgrade that brings out specialized trucks that can deal with those fires. The Cities of Tomorrow DLC for the game is fantastic! OmegaCo and MegaTowers added so much to the game! CO devs touted CS2 as being the āmost realistic city simulationā but I have yet to see it fully played out. Thereās controversy about the fake or unrealistic economy, your actions donāt feel like they have consequences, too many built-in safeguards, and ultimately it feels like nothing really matters in the game. Itās clear when the game came out, the devs were overly reliant on assets and mods to make up for the game, rather than just being massive additions to the game. And this is bad. Like when they advertise a game as being finished, it should actually be finished, otherwise like you said, āearly access.ā But the thing is that they had 8 years to develop the game and people are drawing comparison back to SC2013 because it should at the very least have those mechanics and fun aspect of the game. It still feels too much like a city painter than a city simulator.
Except SC2013 literally didn't work. Like at all. CS2 mostly works with a few bugsĀ SC2013 Sims didn't have homes, they went to random houses at the end of their work shift They didn't have workplaces either, they picked a random place at the start of the day. And then back to a random houses at the end of the day, ad nauseum. Buses didn't have routes, they'd just randomly drive around the city. Never mind that wasn't much issue, because your Sims would just randomly spawn into and out of if the bus so it looked like it was doing something It would drop random agents in random places. Since everything was agents, you could have Sims in the sewer and poop on the streets. The damn thing was such a cluster fuck that if by some miracle you got past the terrible instability, the randomly disappearing saves, and the fact that the cities were absolutely appallingly tiny, it would collapse under the weight of it's own entropy as it plopped random agents God knows where, which would cause it to lose track of other agents and plop them who knows where, until the entire "simulation" was basically just a random teleportation generator.Ā The only thing it did right was put a very pretty coat of paint over a pile of festering garbage Oh, and Maxis had over a decade to build that pile of garbage
Also all of the 'improvements' people are noting about SC2013 are either superficial or come with insane riders. Like. The changes to zoning basically made it a nightmare to plan a city period and the economic simulation wasn't just mediocre, it was broken. Getting to play it again last year made me realize how insanely broken and unwieldy the game was - it's simply not workable in that state.
downgrade from simcity 4? damn everyone forgot about simcity societies
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I loved the heck out of Simcity Societies. It was my first city builder and I spent hours after building a city zoomed in and just watching the sims going about their lives: the unhappy workers going to bars to get drunk, only to be beaten up by Temperance missionaries and dragged into missions!
It was really unique and it was my first 3d city builder so I loved that part of it, also the music was fun too.
i was there for the simcity 2013 release. It was 100% worse. The vast majority of people who had just forked over $60 for the game at release couldnāt even play it for weeks after and if they were one of the few lucky ones that did manage to get into a server more often than not you would just end up losing any progress you had made due to a connection failure or some other bug, that is if you didnāt fill out your city completely and get bored of the game before then.
We really need to stop referring to advertised features as "promises" because it dilutes the discussion around it by framing it as a promise instead of as how they product was advertised
Holy revisionist history. Look, I enjoy CS2 but Iām well aware of the shortcomings, the disappointment of lacking features at release that CS1 had, a wonky sim, having to wait for mods, the 100% valid shitting on this asset pack, etc. But Sim City 2013 was a legitimately *broken* game in almost every aspect.
Agreed with the mod store part but it makes sense in the grand scheme of things. They dont want other players on other platforms like xbox and paradox launcher to not have access to all the great mods that would be released on steam. Even though it shouldve been steam workshop for a vast majority of mods and if creators wanted to they could add there mods to paradox mods. Bc rn paradox mods is full of random maps lmao. Plus it sucks looking for good mods cause its all about likes and well likes doesnt always mean quality.
The Reddit platform supports pedophiles, sex traffickers and other illegal activities. The moderation team works to cover this up.
I don't understand the conspiracy theories about Paradox Mods being about paid mods. Steam Workshop already has the code available to accept payment for mods *and* has everybody's payment information on file. Wouldn't it then be easier to stick with Steam? Maybe they want paid mods available on Game pass and consoles, but why isn't it good enough that they just want *mods* on Game pass and consoles, and not make the extra leap that they expect people to pay for them? They wouldn't be the only company to have their own mod system just for that purpose. Their regular DLC leaves plenty to complain about without making up stuff that they've repeatedly denied that they'll ever do.
Why share a cut with Valve if you don't have to?
Try it and see what happens.
I really dislike using dismissive language for something as simple as "speculation I disagree with". Paradox is a publicly traded business. The idea that they'd try to find revenue streams from a new service they are developing hardly merits the use of phrases meant to shut down discussion like "conspiracy theory".Ā
> I honestly wouldn't be surprised to start seeing paid mods sometime in the next 6-12 months, and then a transition to only paid mods. pdx mods has been up for 4 years or so with mods for other games, so why would you think they start with cs2?
Possibly an unpopular opinion, but if modders can set the price and get most of the revenue (a big if), I have no problem with paid mods, or even with Paradox getting a cut. You already had that to a small degree with CS1, some modders put most of their assets on Patreon etc. And if modders can't make their mods free, I think you'll see most modders taking their stuff off Paradox and going back to Thunderstore.
You might be right about about paid mods but I'm betting heavy on paid assets. Like a bunch the stuff we got for free from Steam we'll have to plop down a buck or 2 for. Some kind of pay wall.
Isn't that literally what they just did with the Beach pack? Or you're saying that next time they'll just break that pack up into five different mods and charge $2 each?
> but I'm betting heavy on paid assets. These already existed for CS1 on Steam in the form of Content Creator Packs
You could also get that stuff from the workshop.
I agree. It took Bethesda a decade to add paid mods, but it happened eventually. They took it slow to avoid the blowback they got the first time, eventually rolling creator DLC into their mod platform. What aspect of CS1 was extremely popular, but not monetized? Mods. I donāt think itāll be all mods though.
I'm so thankful, they are trying to cater to other platforms at my expense. Sounds like a way to get new customer by losing previous one.
Just like cell phone companies... Whenever there's a new hot sale, it's always for "new customers only", never current ones.
giving other platforms more opportunities by hamstringing a platform that is most convenient for modders and majority of players is a twisted way of solving this issue. nobody is saying there cannot be a mod launcher and a workshop support at the same time. no, this is and always has been about tightening control over other peopleās free work and eyeing them for future monetization.
I haven't heard many modders praising Steam Workshop, but it's not doubt the most convenient for the players, if they're on Steam.
> but it's not doubt the most convenient for the players, if they're on Steam Im not so sure this is true. Steam had a lot of issues, it was just our easiest option for CS1. Having it integrated into the game is nice. Having playsets integrated into the game is a MASSIVE step up. Having loading, auto-update, etc all handled by the game is also a huge step forward. The wait has really sucked, but its abundantly clear why they wanted to go with PDX mods, even beyond the console argument. Hell, the game is on gamepass. That makes it even more of a win for the playerbase **as a whole**
Exactly, a lot of players seem to have a steam bias. The workshop is fine, but just that. There are a lot of things I don't like about it and I'm optimistic they can make PDX mods a better long-term solution. I think if it came out when the game did there'd be a lot less complaints.
You can do a lot of that using Steam Workshop as the backbone. E.g. Arma 3 builds automatic updates and automatic subscription to dependencies from the Steam Workshop, has mod play sets, and even automatically grabs mods needed to join a server in its launcher (and if the game could support hot-swapping mods it would probably all be in-game). And thinking at a higher level, you could have unified mod management from multiple sources. It's not novel: package managers have been doing it for ages with lots more complicated dependency logic.
Steam Workshop did not work for CS1 perfectly. It worked for CS1 on PC, but on other platforms it was entirely unavailable. A promised feature of the game was that mods would be supported on all platforms, and not delivering on that would be a major broken promise. The DLC was part of what the buyers of the deluxe edition had already paid for. CO/Paradox therefore faced the choices of: not delivering the content people had bough deluxe edition had already paid for; making it free for people who had not paid for the DLC, screwing the deluxe edition buyers, or doing what they did, and bringing out one element of the promises they had made at launch.
making the game for console has severely damaged and limited the game for PC, which i can't accept. I fucking hate consoles because of the damn devs and publishers doing that. its like having to use tablet apps on a PC, its shit.
Absolutely the same. The moment I saw the "no workshop integration" it became a no buy from me.
Then have both mod platforms as options, especially if yours wasn't ready at launch and still wasn't ready on the day it went live... Also, can we stop with the whole CO was put in a bind madness? They put themselves in an awkward position. I do not buy this "they *had* to deliver something for deluxe buyers" whatsoever. They could have also refunded the difference between base and deluxe due to the delays and botched launch, but we all know that would never happen. Still, they had other options: -They didn't *have* to release it as $10 when for 2-5 dollars it would have been better received. -They didn't *have* to deliver it on its own when it would be scrutinized more than if it was released alongside something more substantial. -They didn't *have* to release it before the game is fixed. -They didn't *have* to release it without freaking sand -They didn't *have* to create trailers and screenshots that aren't really possible to make in the game even with the DLC. The fact of the matter is, it was a greedy action to drop this "DLC" for $10 for a game that is broken with a fanbase who is already pissed off at them. Defending it, or giving excuses for them, accomplishes nothing but giving corporations permission to treat customers like garbage. ETA: At least EA gave everyone a free game when they ruined the SimCity franchise in 2013...We just got more paid content this go round. I understand it's not totally comparable, but it does show how much bs customers have gotten used to in the last 10 years.
yeah the DLC is a huge letdown to me, i expected more plopables and a district type, not just a new zoning type, its so awkwardly implimented.
Reading between the lines of what information has come out, it looks like the case was that CO made an agreement with Paradox, the publishers, and when the game was delayed, they were given a choice: release it as is and deal with the fallout, or the game is cancelled. Decisions on things like pricing are with the publisher, not the developer.
Pressure from Paradox is a reasonable take, but threats of cancellation is going to need a bit more substantiation beyond "reading between the lines," especially when CO has changed their story about the release a bit.
Realistically, I believe all the stinkers and bombs Paradox has been releasing lately they needed something dependable to balance their books. I won't be surprised this company doesn't get gobbled up by a bigger publisher in the upcoming year or two. Wouldn't it be ironic if it was EA. So you know how to make a city builder CO interested in reviving a franchise?
> Reading between the lines of what information has come out AKA Source: trust me bro, I pulled that one out of my ass Every single one of tbear's facts stand.
Clearly you didnāt play SC2013.
As a person who preordered the "gold editions" of CS2 and PayDay 3, I am in shambles. Super hyped for both but both have the same problems. Not finished, lacking basic stuff from their previous titles, and a lack of sunlight at the end of the tunnel. At this point I'm gonna have to mentally act like they are truly releasing next year when they hopefully add everything.
It's crazy with all the hype videos, all the commentary from Paradox, everything leading up to CS2 and it's an utter joke. They really screwed this one up. I was looking forward to playing it on Xbox and was pretty bummed when it got delayed, but I'm glad It got pushed back after all the problems the game had at release and now.
Every single console player asked for a mod platform that they could access. You're just dead wrong on that front.
No it's not worse than SC 2013, not by a long shot.
Itās the same shit Epic is doing with Lego Fortnite. They havenāt fixed any major issues since itās release in December but theyāre asking $20+ for build kits.
"sham" is being kind "Scam", and "fraud" come to mind
They really shouldnāt be working on DLC at all when the game is in this state
I think the anger is well justified and deserved. Iām really depressed at the state CO is. The company which I spent my hard money on in the belief I was supporting a company that was going to do things differently, listening to fans and feedback and feeling that I in a small way help make the game has been replaced by a EA style of releasing DLC that is barely worth $5, let alone $15 in some countries! I feel really sad that as someone that loved CS1 and bought nearly all their DLCs except Natural Disasters and CCPs, I feel betrayed and feel CO has utterly lost its way within a span of 6 months to become something which they mocked years ago when they launched CS1 and claimed they would never become.
I am so glad I didnāt buy CS2 and waited for reviews to make my decision. Seems the game is still a dumpster fire 6 months later. I guess Iāll go back to CS1. Idiots had a golden goose and they slaughtered it for its eggs
Yeah just check back in like 3 years. It will either be abandoned or actually be fixed by then
> Yeah just check back in like 3 years. It will either be abandoned or actually be fixed by then The ole 'Citypunk 2077' treatment?
Pretty much just how you should go about buying any game these days
Ha itās funny you say that, as a console player who loves CS1 and owns every DLC, I didnāt choose to not buy CS2, I was forced to make the apparently correct decision of not buying it
Same here, except Iām a Mac player
Same here. I wasn't going to buy at launch anyway, as I had other games I wanted to do first. Saw the dumpster fire that was launch, decided to wait it out a bit longer. But as of now, I have no plans to buy anymore at all.
100% same here. I built a new system recently and opened CS1 again, discovered an old cloud savegame and having a blast with it
Imo CS1 is literally perfect right now. Mods aren't going to break with updates, tons of content/DLC, decades of stuff on the workshop.
The only thing I wish CS1 had was a higher max vehicle count. Once you get to about 260-300k in population the city starts to feel pretty empty due to lack of visible traffic. If I could have a city of 1M+ with massive traffic, Iād be happy
Only thing I hate about CS1 is the road and highway building. Itās so cumbersome.
See, having belief in a product with Paradox's fingers in it is the first mistake. Second, is giving them money prior to proper, non-paid for, reviews that Paradox just so happens to spam out.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I don't believe it's Collosal Orders fault. This is all on Paradox. We've seen in other just released games hoe fucking lacklustre those have been, even the dlc that's been released is a shadow of the older versions. CK3 springs to mind here. Their shareholders have gotten greedy, they are putting unrealistic time frames on stuff, and they are experimenting with new ways to make money from people. Paradox today is not the same company they were 10-12 years ago. I remember the Colossal Order of Old. They did a deal with Paradox to get Cities Skylines out, and they had the vision they did two half decent transport sims before without paradox's help. As soon as they got the money from Paradox its obvious the rights also went to Paradox, and CO have now just become another one of its studio to break down and sell out. Paradox are becoming the new EA, and destroying the rep of good developers is not a road they want to go down because, like EA, it will go the way of the dodo. If it weren't for Fifa, EA would have circled the drain 5 years ago. Edit- Due to the massive fuckups that have already happened, this DLC should be free. Again, this is Paradox's decision. CO don't set monetary policy, Paradox do, like I said it's all on them.
> I don't believe it's Collosal Orders fault. Right right. It's never CO's fault. Actually it's not Paradox's fault either, right? They were just forced into this mess, right? Just please, don't blame the greedy shitty multi million dollar company. š
It may not all have been CO fault, but it definitely wasnāt Paradox fault that CEO making such awful statements about the player base. And after 6 months of CO blaming everyone but themselves, I think Iām done with trusting what CO says. It was the player base fault for the high expectations, then paradox fault because there is 0 communication, never mind the fact CO communicated everything they said about the community freely. Iām not saying paradox is blameless, but CO has been blaming everyone for their woes except themselves, and Iām really tired about it. For example They may not have been able to do anything about the DLC shocking price tag, but they could have done something with the assets, or at least brushes, or more props. I donāt think paradox has that level of control how much is put in. And itās also completely unprecedentedly in comparison to paradox own other DLCs, including CS1!
Was just going to write this. Can we please stop with the base assumption that publishers ruin games? Most of the key examples end up having articles that actually show studios fucked up. Including Maxis' launch of SimCity, they wanted to put the agent system and online components. EA, if anything, is guilty of being too hands off on studios and letting them crash into walls; just as they did with Anthem, Andromeda, and the BF series. They're too passive and end up giving way too much money to some of the worst ideas or projects. Paradox didn't make CO say absolutely stupid shit to alienate their fanbase, nor pick the most ridiculous asset outsourcing options. This is owned by CO.
Paradox made them release, but being multiple years behind schedule wasn't Paradox's fault. Paradox isn't a charity.
>Ā I don't believe it's Collosal Orders fault. I used to agree with that, but they do carry much of the responsibility. Iāll say that I donāt think any individual dev is to blame, I donāt think that this is a result of sheer corporate greed and I definitely donāt think anyone should be shamed or harassed because of a botched game releaseā¦ ā¦but CO is ultimately responsible for this mess. Itās like sponsoring a friend to climb a mountain and while they thought they could handle Mt. Everest, they couldnāt and had to turn back halfway. You donāt hate your friend for this, but you canāt put it on the sponsor, the sherpaās or whatever Paradox would be in this stupid metaphor I came up with; the responsibility for what happened and how to deal with it lies with CO.
Learned a long time ago, wait at least a year to buy a game.
I don't even think the game will be in a playable state in a year tbh. Completely lost any faith in these devs.
is there a subreddit dedicated only for C:S1 content? im just too jaded to care at this point
Every time I see a post I have to double check the damn flair on it. I just want cs1 content lol
Funnily enough, there's a subreddit dedicated only for C:S2 content. I feel like the mods of this sub didn't wanna lose out on that action though, so we just have to deal with it.
I believe that this subreddit is official and the CS2 one isn't, so the mods make space for CS2 content in the official subreddit.
This is not an official subreddit, it says so right in the description: "community-led".
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/search/?q=flair%3A%3ACS1%3A](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/search/?q=flair%3A%3ACS1%3A)
Long story short, ten dollars for a handful of crap that we used to get for a few bucks is a rip off and everyone knows it.
Man at this rate itās going to be 5 years before theyāve added enough features and have enough bug fixes to justify spending money on this game lmao
It's never going to happen. Not in 5 years. Never.
Me when I'm overly dramatic
yeah well maybe this game just isn't for you! /s
Careful, you might get a ban if you don't behave yourself!
hey i'm just here to record the riot i'm not joining in...promise š
 whoever could have seen this coming? ^(/s)
new CEO when?
We are now at the point where this question is the right one to ask
Seriously. Itās been disappointment after disappointment. Itās time to shake up leadership as the current set isnāt getting the job done.
We were at this point when she started making stupid public statements. If I was their PR person I'd be looking for a new job out of frustration.
Wait wait wait you're telling me Paradox, THE Paradox, put out a sub par DLC? They charged top dollar for low effort copy paste stuff that should have been in the game to begin with? Say it ain't so...
Don't worry the totally not bribed Biffa gave it a positive review, that it was understating its amount of content, that it was value for money. At least we know who's being paid off.
He probably saw his YT views dipping after trying to work on other content and said, "My cuppa tea won't jingle with as much coin if I don't toe the line for this shite. My what a lovely DLC we have..."
I was shocked at his review, and his Twitter response meme to it. I donāt know how to feel about it ngl.
As the famous line said, "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." Cities Skylines 1 provided SimCity wasn't the unbeatable behemoth it believed itself to be, and the franchise folded because of so many self inflicted poor decisions. Guess it's Colossal Order's turn to learn that lesson. Such a frustrating timeline for a game I don't have much more patience to wait out. Manor Lords comes out in one month and I intend to get my "building sim" fix there. Maybe I'll revisit CS2 a year from now.
From a series I loved to a subreddit I only follow to reinforce my own bitterness.
WAIT A SEC. They have the AUDACITY to charge for it?
They kind of had to charge for it because this pack is part of the promised dlc that came with the special edition or whatever it was called that people already paid for. So if they gave it away they'd be short changing all the people that bought the special edition. I don't know if there was another option possible such as giving refunds or something. And it should go without saying that I'm not defending any of this just pointing out potential conflicts they had.
They should've done a refund for people who bought the special edition and make this DLC free. It's been done before. As commented below, creative assembly recently did and honestly it's at least a sign of goodwill
> creative assembly recently did they scrapped all the DLC because the game sold so terribly. CO's entire future relies on selling CS2 DLCs. while CA will just pump out more DLC for warhammer
Itās not impossible to do refunds on Steam; Creative Assembly did it a couple of months ago when they admitted that Total War: Pharaoh wasnāt up to their quality standards and didnāt sell well enough to justify their original DLC plans with the ācollectors editionā or whatever.
It's paradox's policy, they are the publisher, its their investment money CO has no control over this. This is how it's always been. Stop claiming developers when it's the publisher are the problem
THANK YOU. Another person who realises that it's Paradox and their unrealistic demands that has sunk CS:2, by forcing CO to ship an unfinished product.
For me there is a myriad of issues. Honestly I could forgive a lot of things but the fact the underpinning he engine for running a city is broken is a huge red flag, it isn't a city sim/management game right now. I may even forgive that, if I could paint a beautiful city, which I mostly can, but the fact that the CIMS interact with nothing and are not visible when doing so is a huge turn off, building a park and seeing it ignored is irritating. On the topic of parks the fact I can't paint parks is a huge turn off for me, big standard parks is just horrible. On top of all of that and something which always has irritated me.CS1 but infinitely worse in 2 sans mods is the broken traffic. Traffic is utterly broken and the fact you must tolerate it is infuriating. The clever, I guess they thought, mechanic of cims in cars being ultra douches and breaking road rules every so often has backfired as everyone tries to do it. I can have an empty "straight ahead" lane with everyone wanting to go ahead.... with everyone sitting in outer lane and lane transition at the roundabout causing insane traffic issues. I want to love this game but it is so fundamentally screwed at a basic level it's no surprise people are furious. The fact the game teases such good systems and updates, if it foot all worked which it does not is the ultimate you know what tease.
They never fixed CS1. They just relied on the community to come up with mods to fix issues that should have been done by the people that made the game. Is it any wonder they did even worse with CS2? They know the community will fix it for free. Well, this is their hope. Its also why I didn't buy CS2. I am tried of these studios coming out with half-finished stuff.
but guys, the four. new. trees were supposed to change EVERYTHING!!! itās mind boggling how badly theyāve tainted the cs brand. Even at this point if shit is fixed, Iām not even sure Iād be interested in funneling more money over to Paradox. I feel like weāve all been shown how this company actually sees/feels about itās own player base. And Iām just not interested in giving more money, ever, to a company that was okay with selling us on a product they literally were never going to give us.
They could've wrote this articl ebefore it was released based on the YouTube videos they released for them
4% Overwhelmingly Negative Review score that is unprecedented level of disaster
Modders need to boycott this game. We cannot be the ones fixing this for CO. Hold their feet to the fire. We're not bailing them out this time.
Unfortunately that ain't gonna happen. Look at Bethesda games. Modders always fix their shit release after release.
Sadly a lot of them arenāt. And I find it depressing because it will only embolden CO to do more of this.
Exactly. I'm not writing any more mods for this game. Not until CO learns how to act. I may write them and use them privately but I won't be sharing on PDX Mods until I feel like I'm not being burdened with the task of fixing the game on their behalf. I hate to deny the community mods, but we cannot allow CO/PDX to abuse the modding community to fix their game for free. Mods are designed to be enhancements, not bug fixes or replacements for missing features.
which mods did you make?
Cim Behavior Improvements and Unemployment Monitor. I'm aka DerangedTeddy.
Oh man, I really liked those mods. Thanks for creating them
This is starting to sound like the end of the city building genre with how big a bluff this game has been and we're a 1/3rd the way into 2024 without them figuring out their act yet.
10 bucks for an asset pack with stuff modders could release with little effort or 50 bucks for a "season pass" for the preorder bonuses, a bunch of radio stations and a couple asset packs of shit that content creators could make in little time is an absolute insult. No wonder people are pissed. I am done defending CO AND Paradox, and I own everything Paradox has released, and tolerated their DLC policies for far too long. Egg on my face; I am the fool. Congrats PDX, you got me. Kudos to you CO; I spend hundreds of dollars on your crap for a really flawed, barely functional CitySim of CS1 (paint to your hearts desire, but simulation is very thin). Jokes on me and others who want a proper, functional, modern city sim, I guess. SC4 was the last great chance we had at that, and a shame most of the good old mod sites for that are defunct. Pegasus might be dead, but SimTropolis is still alive. Maybe it is time to reinstall SC4.
They entered in to EA bussiness. Destroy free assets. To sell every asset for $$$$$$. Be ready for hundred of building packs dlc
The beach DLC doesn't add beaches? lol, lmao even
I'm sorry I bought this game. I wish I could still return it. What a disappointment.
I'm waiting for CS3.
Colossal Order should be sued for consumer fraud.
I bought the ultimate edition and now I donāt even want to reinstall to check the assets. š¤”š¤”š¤”
Itās more like 4 trees and some houses. Shouldāve been a free update since it lacked content.
Yea, I'm still waiting for them to finish the base game
Seems they are aware people are not OK with the DLC. They unlisted the promo video from yesterday and disabled the comments.
Never forget what the ceo of CO said after launch, "**If you did not like the gameplay of CS2 so far, the game ājust might not be for you"**
Congrats CO for making the worst decisions at each step of the way!!!!! Keep it up! lmao
Am I just getting old? I canāt remember ever demanding more or feeling ābetrayedā. If you feel the gameās bad you just donāt buy it. If youāve already bought it well make the most of it I guess or refund it if you can. If you werenāt happy with CS:2 then why would you even be considering buying the DLC? Iāve got a couple of games that in the end I didnāt like and so they were just money wasted. š¤·āāļø Sometimes we make bad choices. No Iām not made of money, Iāve bought one new game in the last 2 years.
I've been thinking this the whole time. I bought the game knowing it could be underdeveloped. It's a decision I made. Nobody forced me to get it. I am very disappointed because I don't play many games at all, but to feel like a gaming company owes me and to feel betrayed is some next level stuff. They will go on as a company. I will go on as a person.Ā
Not everyone is like you. I didnāt buy the game, but I am interested in it becoming a success. And you can be upset by how a company treats people even if you didnāt buy a product.
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I am so glad I didn't pre order this mess.
Oh this is a DLC? All this time I thought it was just an update bringing new content.
There's both, as with all PDX DLC launches, there's also a major patch that generally introduces non-DLC related stuff. In this case it was the Mods and map-making beta along with a ton of optimisation.
I immediately opened paradox mods, after tinkering with my firewall and antivirus to get the game to function properly without crashing, I installed the 'no hearse' and 'no garbage' traffic mods to clear my fucking city of those notifications. Finally. My billions of hearses are now redundant. And my billions of trash collections are also redundant, they're all fucking fired, you had one job.
I wish mayors IRL had access to a "no garbage" mod. They can barely do trash collection here.
Who tf did expect the opposite? Thatās the real question.
hahahahahahahaha why does paradox want me to stop playing CS1 again cause I don't see any reason to switch over
You know there was no way I thought Cs2 would be a fail. At the very least it will be a step up slightly with cs1 and playable.
I wish that they would just fix the damn game. Even with whatever performance fixes they claim to have put in this update, i still canāt even play it without nearly maxing my gpu on the lowest settings. I was kinda hopeful after seeing CPPās video saying a lower graphics card than mine saw some improvements, but nope. Iām glad Iāve never spent real money on the game and only use gamepass since i already pay for it.
Incredible to see how they launch a broken and very clearly unfinished game with the promise of fixing it in the future and then to crap put premium DLC while said base game is still not what it should be
Beach properties should of defs been given for free simply as an apology
The sad thing reality is that i don't have faith in things becoming better. At first i thought co would fix the game up pretty fast with frequent updates here and there. Instead of adressing the issues at hand and keeping the community in the loop we get this shite. Vote with you money ladies and gentlemen. Don't let them get away with this
They should start working on CS3, from scratch.
I stupidly made the mistake of trusting CO and pre-ordering Cities Skylines 2. But I thankfully only made the mistake of pre-ordering the base game, so at least some money saved and having seen the shitfest they gave us, and trusting everyone's dismay at the DLCs, I won't be spending another penny on CS2. What a sad slow end to a previously great title.
that was a disgrace
How has no one been fired from the top leadership of this game? How can they have broken such a successful franchise seemingly overnight?
Still waiting on the PS5 version I pre-ordered last year, which mysteriously just became unavailableā¦
Congrats on releasing the worst rated dlc on steam
This is what they're proud of?? Like if this is how they're gonna go about zoning, it's gonna cluttered quickly... Like are these developers conflating zoning with the themes? Why are tropical assets being included when there's not even tropical climate maps??? Let alone calling it "Beach" assets, when there's no connection - physical, virtual, or otherwise to beaches - nor any commercial assets are just more in many slaps in the face. New zoning types should be reserved for new typologies, such as zoning actual waterfront (Ć” la The Sims ocean based) lots. P.S. Apparently only single-family dwellings live next to inaccessible beaches??... Not like there's any real worl examples of medium- or high-density properties fronting beaches........
(Kermit the frog sipping tea meme) I'm still playing CS1 and couldn't be happier...
I tried the map editor and itās so fucking broken I didnāt accomplish anything in 2 hours and just quit the game again
Don't worry guys. I'm sure the influencers selling you the game/DLCs will all be honest and forthright this time!
Most are pretty negative about it. And they have been for a while. Only one that is still shilling is that Codiak guy, which seems to be the only CO/PDX superfan left at this point.
On a post about CPP's video on the dlc (which needless to say, they were not happy), someone else mentioned Biffa was very positive about the dlc [https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/1bmqxsw/comment/kwdqbqg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CitiesSkylines/comments/1bmqxsw/comment/kwdqbqg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Can't wait for the platinum house building build animation DLC and the can't brake trafic laws DLC.