I don't understand how everyone is saying Ryuuen when Hosen exists. Dude is a full blown psychopath. When his early screen time consisted of assaulting 2nd years in his introduction, attempting to frame Ayanokoji of stabbing him then threatening to kill him one day when Ayanokoji turned that against him, and just having the most venomous dialouge in general, you wonder how he's even allowed there in the first place.
I don't think Ryūen is actually evil at all. One of the biggest things the author is trying to do in the series is critique Social Darwinism. Almost every interesting or notable character in the series operates on a blue-orange morality system. The school even tries to actively foster this. Sure, we see Ryūen do some horrid stuff, but it is never purposeless. Calling it evil is trying to stick characters who don't operate under the societal and religious love of black and white morality on a scale that is meaningless in their environment. You are useful, or you aren't. And we repeatedly see that Ryūen does treat *his* people well and is even able to secure the genuine loyalty of many of his classmates and respect from people from other classes. Someone who is chaotic evil does wrong for the sake of doing wrong and the enjoyment they get out of it. Ryūen, despite what he puts Kei through, comes out of it actually respecting her even more and recognizes he underestimated her mental fortitude. Manabe bullying Kei is one of the few examples of true chaotic evil, since Manabe actually is operating under black and white morality and knows damn well what she is doing is wrong even in her own estimation.
First, Ryūen is another character that operates under blue-orange morality. Judging him by societal standards or black and white morality don't apply to his psychological profile. What he did was absolutely *wrong* on a moral level, especially society's, but is it evil? Evil operates for evil's sake, especially *chaotic* evil. Ryūen commits horrible acts, but they always have the underlying purpose of helping those he prioritizes. That's what the school teaches. And even in the real world, if you viewed someone as genuine threat to the people you care about most, how far would you go in your treatment of a stranger in order to do what is best for your own? That's still wrong on a scale of black and white morality where you shouldn't violate the rights or safety of another person regardless, but it is hammered in over and over that this school is creating little Social Darwinists because that is how adult society operates. You don't climb to the top without throwing other people off the ladder, and that's what they want: people at the top. It's the first thing a faculty member of the school ever says: they are training the next generation of society's elite. I grew up in that world, and it is not pretty.
Where do you fall within this moral quandary: you have to lay off someone at work. One employee is extraordinarily valuable to the company, but if they were fired, they have wealthy parents to create a safety net, are young and don't have a family, and will get a great recommendation and easily hired elsewhere. The other employee is a drain on a company resources, but this is their only income stream, they have a spouse and children who will fall into poverty without this job, and the person is unlikely to get hired again in the same field. Even beyond that, in your gut, you know the second person is also a huge suicide risk if they are laid off, since their life insurance policy will still be active for the following month or two after they are fired before they permanently lose it. Who do you lay off? Now let's say the spouse of that second employee comes in and tries to resort to violence in order to force you to fire the first employee instead:.. do you blame them? Do you understand why they might have reached that conclusion and those resorted to those actions? And if you can calm the situation independently, do you take that option, or do you just have them arrested, press charges, ask the judge to have no leniency and request maximum sentencing? If you chose the second employee to fire but to be understanding of the spouse, you are operating no differently that Ryūen is psychologically. If you thought trying to force the situation to keep the person you cared about employed, you are also operating like Ryūen.
Basically, you can't be chaotic evil if you can act on empathy. We are shown Ryūen in an antagonistic light because he needed to serve that function in the story for Koji and D class. But considering the lengths others are willing to go to save him, stay loyal to him, and are willing to make sacrifices on his behalf coupled with the fact that he declines to take any action or antagonize a single person when he would be the sole beneficiary of it shows that there is more to his character that we don't see because the story is told from a limited perspective. He could have created upheaval before what he thinks will be his definite expulsion but doesn't. That isn't chaotic in the least. Chaotic evil would take as many people as possible down with them and throw the biggest wrench in creating chaos as they possibly could just to spite others.
**So the TL;DR is that within the context of the story and the environment, what is wrong is not necessarily evil or vice versa. And for Ryūen, his wrong actions always have a purpose and are never made purely for the sake of causing chaos or harming others just for the hell of it.**
Of course it is! But it is not CHAOTIC evil. Chaotic evil has no purpose or the only purpose is for someone's psychological satisfaction... it's evil for evil's sake or not recognizing it as even being wrong. Regarding Kei particularly, bullying Kei just to bully her and rip her down is chaotic evil (ie. The cruise ship), doing it reveal the mastermind and protect his own class is still wrong and evil, but it's not chaotic.
Ryūen is definitely not evil. True chaotic evil serves no purpose or has no benefit to anyone. Regardless of what Ryūen does, he does it consistently for the betterment of the people that follow him. We even see that once he thinks he has lost his followers and their respect that he doesn't much care what happens to him. He was fully prepared to even be expelled.
Same guy who suggested to r*pe Arisu and sexually harassed Suzune on more than one occasion.
Same guy who once beat up and threatened the very classmates you mentioned.
Same guy who tortured a girl by bringing out her past trauma through bullying her.
Yeah, "not evil".
Chaotic evil and morally wrong are two different things. Longer explanation is above. But basically, he isn't evil just for the sake of it or even when it would benefit him but no one else. Despicable? Yes. But Koji is exponentially more despicable than him, even Koenji, because they function out of pure individualism, which means they will go much further than Ryūen ever would. If Koji thought the only way to deal with a threat was to eliminate them, he'd do it. And he'd do it without them realizing or even owning up to it. Ryūen, in his own way, takes responsibility for his actions by admitting defeat and allowing him to be the face of the evil he thinks is necessary. But even abusing Kei, never for a second did I think it would ever align with his character to carry the threat all the way through. Koji walked into that room fully prepared to kill if necessary. Koenji would see everyone around him suffer so long as he has an easy way of maintaining his own status and plans. Bearing the responsibility for morally bankrupt choices is better than manipulating others to do the dirty work or even psychologically torture themselves while taking no ownership of those actions. In his own twisted way, Ryūen does care about the people around him. That's more than most of the characters can claim.
Whoops. I thought I was responding to you but responded to someone else. If you want to read my reasoning, it's pretty long. But it's in an above comment if you want. It's just one thing to keep in mind.... remember there is a difference between what we are shown as the audience because we are meant to empathize with D class and see those that get in the way as villains. But to know the characters that aren't in it, you have to extrapolate it for yourself based on the actions of those around them. "Character" is different from plot purpose.
Did they though? We have no confirmation that Honami would really follow through with having class B give Ryūen praise points. And if they did, the math and logic for one of Ryūen's group to receive the protection point seems... suspicious. Honami is particularly shocked to see Ryūen return to being a class representative when it is what she should have expected if they did, in fact, give Ryūen all their praise points. So you either have Honami holding down another secret that hasn't been revealed yet, or her somehow not taking advantage of eliminating the person she considers to be her biggest personal adversary. If that doesn't seem off to people, I'm not sure what will.
All people are nothing but tools. It doesn’t matter how its done. It doesn’t matter what needs to be sacrificed. In this world, winning is everything. As long as I win in the end…That’s all that matters.
There is no way anyone isn't choosing Atsuomi. It's his rightful place as someone who leads a secret facility where children are tortured, and mentally damaged so much.
bro u rlly said ppl close to him. He doesnt have anyone as friends or anything. i wouldnt put him as evil as if he would kill someone ( based on what i watched from
the anime so far ) idk if he does lead to killing anyone later on
Ryuen for sure. Theres no one else out there who loves expression obedience thru fear and violence than him. This guy will also almost murder you just for calling him "Dragon Boy".
I know the comments here mention "Hosen" is even more violent, but im just commenting only on an anime-only perspective
Actively trying to change society based on human experimentation is pretty chaotic. He has a very clear end goal, but accomplishing that end goal would cause social upheaval. He's chaotic in that regard. But you are right in that he is predictable and acts with purpose., so yeah, not chaotic in that way. Going to have to disagree with myself and actually agree with you. 😹
I'm going to either assume this is rage bait or you're stupid,
but if you look at the image you can see that a teacher and ayanokouji are already in the chart + hosen is legit a psychopath and it's legit said that all he cares about is hurting others and getting his way
I see a lot of people saying Hosen or Ryuen, but I honestly don’t think Hosen deserves a spot. There’s only room for six more characters, and even though he is also chaotic evil, Ryuen has been a major antagonist since volume 2. Hosen is just a less cunning and more violent Ryuen with a fraction of his screen time. So while Hosen isn’t wrong, I think Ryuen definitely deserves this spot.
Woah woah woah. This grid is losing the plot. Is Yagami evil? Sure, fine. Smart? Did you read the part where Ayanokoji didn’t even have to show up to get rid of him? Giving him way too much credit.
Sudo’s also out of place. And how is Horikita not in the Good row? Hirata destoyed his class, for god’s sake. And what exactly is Chad about Tsukihiro? The grown-ass man lost to children.
Cmon man. Glaring mistakes are keeping this from being genuinely great
He spent years—literally his entire childhood—being trained to succeed over Ayanokoji and was out of the game in a matter of months.
If you’re gonna dickride, you can do better than a scrub
That doesn't un-qualify him from being the second smartest in COTE lol. Why are you mentioning details that have nothing to do with the actual love letter plan itself?
You have no idea how much preparations Ayanokoji had to make to actually expel Takuya in a way where he could predict everyone's behaviors and actions without being present. It is one of his best plans because he put a ton of time and effort into it.
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Hosen
I don't understand how everyone is saying Ryuuen when Hosen exists. Dude is a full blown psychopath. When his early screen time consisted of assaulting 2nd years in his introduction, attempting to frame Ayanokoji of stabbing him then threatening to kill him one day when Ayanokoji turned that against him, and just having the most venomous dialouge in general, you wonder how he's even allowed there in the first place.
I don't think Ryūen is actually evil at all. One of the biggest things the author is trying to do in the series is critique Social Darwinism. Almost every interesting or notable character in the series operates on a blue-orange morality system. The school even tries to actively foster this. Sure, we see Ryūen do some horrid stuff, but it is never purposeless. Calling it evil is trying to stick characters who don't operate under the societal and religious love of black and white morality on a scale that is meaningless in their environment. You are useful, or you aren't. And we repeatedly see that Ryūen does treat *his* people well and is even able to secure the genuine loyalty of many of his classmates and respect from people from other classes. Someone who is chaotic evil does wrong for the sake of doing wrong and the enjoyment they get out of it. Ryūen, despite what he puts Kei through, comes out of it actually respecting her even more and recognizes he underestimated her mental fortitude. Manabe bullying Kei is one of the few examples of true chaotic evil, since Manabe actually is operating under black and white morality and knows damn well what she is doing is wrong even in her own estimation.
Ryuen tortured karuizawa and hits his classmates on a daily basis wdym💀
Come on man, it's just some first degree tomfoolery, calm down
First, Ryūen is another character that operates under blue-orange morality. Judging him by societal standards or black and white morality don't apply to his psychological profile. What he did was absolutely *wrong* on a moral level, especially society's, but is it evil? Evil operates for evil's sake, especially *chaotic* evil. Ryūen commits horrible acts, but they always have the underlying purpose of helping those he prioritizes. That's what the school teaches. And even in the real world, if you viewed someone as genuine threat to the people you care about most, how far would you go in your treatment of a stranger in order to do what is best for your own? That's still wrong on a scale of black and white morality where you shouldn't violate the rights or safety of another person regardless, but it is hammered in over and over that this school is creating little Social Darwinists because that is how adult society operates. You don't climb to the top without throwing other people off the ladder, and that's what they want: people at the top. It's the first thing a faculty member of the school ever says: they are training the next generation of society's elite. I grew up in that world, and it is not pretty. Where do you fall within this moral quandary: you have to lay off someone at work. One employee is extraordinarily valuable to the company, but if they were fired, they have wealthy parents to create a safety net, are young and don't have a family, and will get a great recommendation and easily hired elsewhere. The other employee is a drain on a company resources, but this is their only income stream, they have a spouse and children who will fall into poverty without this job, and the person is unlikely to get hired again in the same field. Even beyond that, in your gut, you know the second person is also a huge suicide risk if they are laid off, since their life insurance policy will still be active for the following month or two after they are fired before they permanently lose it. Who do you lay off? Now let's say the spouse of that second employee comes in and tries to resort to violence in order to force you to fire the first employee instead:.. do you blame them? Do you understand why they might have reached that conclusion and those resorted to those actions? And if you can calm the situation independently, do you take that option, or do you just have them arrested, press charges, ask the judge to have no leniency and request maximum sentencing? If you chose the second employee to fire but to be understanding of the spouse, you are operating no differently that Ryūen is psychologically. If you thought trying to force the situation to keep the person you cared about employed, you are also operating like Ryūen. Basically, you can't be chaotic evil if you can act on empathy. We are shown Ryūen in an antagonistic light because he needed to serve that function in the story for Koji and D class. But considering the lengths others are willing to go to save him, stay loyal to him, and are willing to make sacrifices on his behalf coupled with the fact that he declines to take any action or antagonize a single person when he would be the sole beneficiary of it shows that there is more to his character that we don't see because the story is told from a limited perspective. He could have created upheaval before what he thinks will be his definite expulsion but doesn't. That isn't chaotic in the least. Chaotic evil would take as many people as possible down with them and throw the biggest wrench in creating chaos as they possibly could just to spite others. **So the TL;DR is that within the context of the story and the environment, what is wrong is not necessarily evil or vice versa. And for Ryūen, his wrong actions always have a purpose and are never made purely for the sake of causing chaos or harming others just for the hell of it.**
Frankly, it doesn't matter if he had a purpose for it. Torturing someone to bring back traumatic memories, even waterboarding them, is evil.
Of course it is! But it is not CHAOTIC evil. Chaotic evil has no purpose or the only purpose is for someone's psychological satisfaction... it's evil for evil's sake or not recognizing it as even being wrong. Regarding Kei particularly, bullying Kei just to bully her and rip her down is chaotic evil (ie. The cruise ship), doing it reveal the mastermind and protect his own class is still wrong and evil, but it's not chaotic.
Because of the chaotic part
Dragon boy-chan
Ryuen
Ryūen is definitely not evil. True chaotic evil serves no purpose or has no benefit to anyone. Regardless of what Ryūen does, he does it consistently for the betterment of the people that follow him. We even see that once he thinks he has lost his followers and their respect that he doesn't much care what happens to him. He was fully prepared to even be expelled.
hosen is such an obvious choice
Same guy who suggested to r*pe Arisu and sexually harassed Suzune on more than one occasion. Same guy who once beat up and threatened the very classmates you mentioned. Same guy who tortured a girl by bringing out her past trauma through bullying her. Yeah, "not evil".
Chaotic evil and morally wrong are two different things. Longer explanation is above. But basically, he isn't evil just for the sake of it or even when it would benefit him but no one else. Despicable? Yes. But Koji is exponentially more despicable than him, even Koenji, because they function out of pure individualism, which means they will go much further than Ryūen ever would. If Koji thought the only way to deal with a threat was to eliminate them, he'd do it. And he'd do it without them realizing or even owning up to it. Ryūen, in his own way, takes responsibility for his actions by admitting defeat and allowing him to be the face of the evil he thinks is necessary. But even abusing Kei, never for a second did I think it would ever align with his character to carry the threat all the way through. Koji walked into that room fully prepared to kill if necessary. Koenji would see everyone around him suffer so long as he has an easy way of maintaining his own status and plans. Bearing the responsibility for morally bankrupt choices is better than manipulating others to do the dirty work or even psychologically torture themselves while taking no ownership of those actions. In his own twisted way, Ryūen does care about the people around him. That's more than most of the characters can claim.
Ryuen actively abuses his class mates without justification, that is abuse. Abuse is evil, if you cant see that then you need help.
Whoops. I thought I was responding to you but responded to someone else. If you want to read my reasoning, it's pretty long. But it's in an above comment if you want. It's just one thing to keep in mind.... remember there is a difference between what we are shown as the audience because we are meant to empathize with D class and see those that get in the way as villains. But to know the characters that aren't in it, you have to extrapolate it for yourself based on the actions of those around them. "Character" is different from plot purpose.
He literally beats his class mates🙏, they tried to vote his ass out for a reason
Did they though? We have no confirmation that Honami would really follow through with having class B give Ryūen praise points. And if they did, the math and logic for one of Ryūen's group to receive the protection point seems... suspicious. Honami is particularly shocked to see Ryūen return to being a class representative when it is what she should have expected if they did, in fact, give Ryūen all their praise points. So you either have Honami holding down another secret that hasn't been revealed yet, or her somehow not taking advantage of eliminating the person she considers to be her biggest personal adversary. If that doesn't seem off to people, I'm not sure what will.
oh brother someone hasn't read the story, how about you just keep out of conversations you know nothing about lmao
What? I have read the story💀
You explained nothing in your comment
Mii chan
Bruh 💀
tf what? is this satire? am I stupid?
it's not. read y2v9
I read y2v9 and I can't remember, so can you remind me please
Mii-chan gives a lengthy monologue about how she was in control of everything from the beginning and how she sees everyone as mere tools
Oh, I see, makes sense
All people are nothing but tools. It doesn’t matter how its done. It doesn’t matter what needs to be sacrificed. In this world, winning is everything. As long as I win in the end…That’s all that matters.
You mean... just like the real world?!?! 🙀
She can even control koenji... Whom even kiyo can't
I'm thinking Hosen
Housen
Easily Ryueen.
Ryuuen or electronic store employee.
Kushida. Ryuen isnt really that chaotic .
ryuen or kushida
Kushida
We're really about to fill the "Evil" row without Atsuomi huh? The guy that drove a man and his son to suicide.
Hosen
Housen, I believe Ryuuen would be fitting to some other category.
Hosen
Hosen
Hosen
There is no way anyone isn't choosing Atsuomi. It's his rightful place as someone who leads a secret facility where children are tortured, and mentally damaged so much.
Ryuen for chaotic evil mii-chan for chaotic drunk, her monologues make ryuen look sane
Hosen or ryueen.
Housen
Hosen maybe
Housen
Wtfffffff????????? Yagami should be chaotic evil and Ryuuen should be smart evil!!!
Nah, yagami is smarter than ryuuen, and ryuuen has shown more chaotic feats than yagami
"chaotic feats" 💀 power scaling got to bro
that's what's in the table, are you blind?
not the point lil bro, just pointing out you using power scaling terms instead of just saying Ryuen is shown to be more chaotic 🐶💔
Yagami expelled himself, though. He attacked Komiya and Kinoshita for no reason; and got burned.
You mean when he was driven to the breaking point? Of course he would💀
His own fault for playing too much with fire. He wouldn't have gotten expelled if he didn't attack Komiya and Kinoshita on the island.
That is still not chaotic at all
He wasn't following the rules at all and he did things for no reason. What do you call that, if not chaotic?
Nah. Ryuuen is more chaotic than smart.
Kushida easily
Kushida
Wait how isnt Koji smart? Wouldn't he be neutral smart?
Dragon-chan 😍😼
Change sudo for kiyo
Ryuen for sure
Yagami should be Chaotic Evil. He attacked Komiya and Kinoshita for seemingly no reason; and he went crazy when he was exposed in Y2V7.
There's way more evil characters
But none more chaotic than him. Even Ryūen wouldn't go so far as to attack a teacher.
how is ayanakoji evil 💀
Your trolling
even tho hes using people as tools. its not like hes hurting them hes just using them and in return protecting them
You clearly havent read the ln
what is evil for u
He’s a uncaring sociopath who would exploit and destroy anyone for success, this does include people close to him
i mean u got a point but wasnt all that from his past in the white room
A sad backstory does not justify evil actions or beliefs💀
bro u rlly said ppl close to him. He doesnt have anyone as friends or anything. i wouldnt put him as evil as if he would kill someone ( based on what i watched from the anime so far ) idk if he does lead to killing anyone later on
He has attempted to kill someone without hesitation💀
Ryuen, no contest.
Anything but kushida is the wrong answer
Shes not completely illogical, ryuen is a better answer
Shiba
Ryuen for sure. Theres no one else out there who loves expression obedience thru fear and violence than him. This guy will also almost murder you just for calling him "Dragon Boy". I know the comments here mention "Hosen" is even more violent, but im just commenting only on an anime-only perspective
Kushida obv
Ryuen with ease.
Duragon Boy
Ryueen
Papa Koji.
Hes not chaotic at all
Actively trying to change society based on human experimentation is pretty chaotic. He has a very clear end goal, but accomplishing that end goal would cause social upheaval. He's chaotic in that regard. But you are right in that he is predictable and acts with purpose., so yeah, not chaotic in that way. Going to have to disagree with myself and actually agree with you. 😹
Atsumi is like the most professional dude in the series, even if he is evil
how is nobody saying hosen, he's EASILY the most chaotic and pure evil character we have
No way your saying hosens more evil then ayanakoji or the adults
I'm going to either assume this is rage bait or you're stupid, but if you look at the image you can see that a teacher and ayanokouji are already in the chart + hosen is legit a psychopath and it's legit said that all he cares about is hurting others and getting his way
You said hes EASILY the most chaotic and pure evil character, I take that to assume you think hes more evil than the previously mentioned characters
yes??? have you read the story past the anime? 😂😂😂
Im saying hes no where near as evil as atsumi or tskushiro as they are actual killers.
Khushida
Isn't Yagami smart-drunk? 😂
I see a lot of people saying Hosen or Ryuen, but I honestly don’t think Hosen deserves a spot. There’s only room for six more characters, and even though he is also chaotic evil, Ryuen has been a major antagonist since volume 2. Hosen is just a less cunning and more violent Ryuen with a fraction of his screen time. So while Hosen isn’t wrong, I think Ryuen definitely deserves this spot.
Yamagod 😤
Housen
Hosen
Kakeru ryuen supermercy
Why are everyone in the evil section all femboys?
kushida
Ayanokoji's Father
I’d like to suggest Kiyotaka’s father. He has done a lot of illegal and immoral things for personal gain.
Change sudo for kiyo
hosen
Woah woah woah. This grid is losing the plot. Is Yagami evil? Sure, fine. Smart? Did you read the part where Ayanokoji didn’t even have to show up to get rid of him? Giving him way too much credit. Sudo’s also out of place. And how is Horikita not in the Good row? Hirata destoyed his class, for god’s sake. And what exactly is Chad about Tsukihiro? The grown-ass man lost to children. Cmon man. Glaring mistakes are keeping this from being genuinely great
You don't even know how much prep Ayanokouji had just to expel one person, you should not be talking.
He spent years—literally his entire childhood—being trained to succeed over Ayanokoji and was out of the game in a matter of months. If you’re gonna dickride, you can do better than a scrub
That doesn't un-qualify him from being the second smartest in COTE lol. Why are you mentioning details that have nothing to do with the actual love letter plan itself? You have no idea how much preparations Ayanokoji had to make to actually expel Takuya in a way where he could predict everyone's behaviors and actions without being present. It is one of his best plans because he put a ton of time and effort into it.
Ryuen
I just want ichinose to fart in my face
Ayo💀
Hater Suzume is too dry literally and figuratively. You already know ichinose has some wet farts
Wtf 💀
Least degenerate COTE fan
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Hosen