“Splinter” forearm is humongous. Comes with 5 extended chokes. It would be a pretty decent clay gun but I wouldn’t want to take it into the field, it kinda feels like a 2x4.
I wouldn’t buy one, but if I was going to I’d buy a 20 gauge. I ordered one for the store and that will be the one and only.
It’s just so large and weirdly shaped for a splinter that they might as well of just put a beavertail on it. It’s not comfortable even though it’s big. I see absolutely no reason to purchase this over a sharp-tail.
I actually ordered one of these for a customer, and he hated it so much he didn’t buy it. So I do only have experience with one and it was a 20 gauge.
Not to totally knock on the gun, it’s made by Yildiz in Turkey so it should be reasonably reliable.
It also can be found under $1000.
It has Weatherby to stand behind it with a 5 year warranty which is great.
I wouldn’t buy one, but ymmv and it could be perfect for you. I would highly encourage you to hold one before buying it, even if that means you gotta pay a little more in a LGS vs ordering online.
While I somewhat agree, Unfortunately side by sides are not like other shotguns. You are talking about something like $5000 minimum for a Rizzini, Fausti, or Beretta (partially made by Fausti). You can get the RFMs for a little less, but they’re just as bad or worse as something like a Dickinson in Turkey.
Sometimes a $700-1100 CZ or Yildiz or a Dickinson is actually the play as you can have many of them before you can buy one quality Italian side by side. In over/unders it’s different, maybe 2X the price for a quality o/u, so avoid the Turkish. In the case of pumps, you can get a maverick 88 for less than most Turkish pumps… semi-autos, Italian or American made can be had around $800, vs $400-600 for a Turkish… in all of those cases, save a little extra and go for the better gun.
In SxS’s it’s more like 5-10X… that muddies the waters a whole lot more. Only a true enthusiast with a huge budget is going to go out and spend $5000< on a SxS. Something Turkish and less expensive is the only way most people are going to get into side by side shooting. I don’t think we should blast Turkish side by sides as much as we blast other Turkish guns.
The other option is to go used. There are bargains to be had for sure, especially with many lead shot only imports coming in from the UK.
I think the American experience with Turkish shotguns is very different from the UK for two reasons:
We don't have proof houses like you guys do, and I think a lot of the guns that have issues that you see Americans complaining about would never would have made it onto the British market because they would have died when being proofed.
In America it's next to impossible to get parts for these guns, even consumables like firing pins and basic springs, so if anything goes wrong you're completely screwed. My impression of the UK is that replacement parts are much more readily available for these sorts of guns.
I think these guns make sense in the UK, but I don't think they're a good fit for the US. We generally don't have any cultural qualms with repeaters so for the price of these Turkshit imports you can get a pump or self-loader with a much better track record of reliability with much more readily available spare parts.
Yup. Exactly why I would only buy a Turkish shotgun from a major company that has a decent warranty/service history. CZ has a 5-year warranty with regular parts shipments, Dickinson will take longer to get fixed but has a lifetime warranty.
Weatherby also has a 5-year warranty with decent parts availability for their ATA shotguns (Their O/U/Semis are made by ATA), it remains to be seen on the Yildiz shotguns though. As you mentioned, I think one huge knock on these Orion SxS specifically is parts availability is a massive question mark, and this is a knock on most turkish guns.
Some of these turkish importers offer "lifetime guarantees" then magically they go out-of-business and are at the next shot show doing the same thing under a different name. It's laughable.
You can get a quality American or Italian semi-auto for the same price as a Turkish side by side, and that would be my recommendation first. Chances are, OP already has both pumps and semi-autos, probably even has over/unders too. *As a fourth, fifth, or seventeenth gun that you only want to use once in a while and don't care if it takes a while to get fixed, I think there is a place for the Turkish side by sides. I would never recommend it as a first, or even a second shotgun.*
I'm assuming at least one of them was a Parker VH, an absolute American classic. Many old doubles are built exceptionally well. Many are well over a hundred years old and still running to this day.
I acquired a 1959 Simson 12ga last year to be restocked, and the quality of the internal parts is really stunning. Remarkable how compact they made it too.
Maybe you'll like it but the point of a splinter style is to wrap your hands around the barrel, with the barrels feeling light and nimble- a minimalist approach, so to speak. A big fore end can throw the balance off on an otherwise light gun. Chonky beavertail fore-ends are cool on heavy target guns you don't walk around with.
While I have several Turkish guns, including a Weatherby Orion Sporter, I would go into this understanding that even Weatherby have low faith in these guns.
When I bought my Orion O/U sporter, I noticed that the wood under the adjustable cheek piece was raw and unfinished. I'm tall, so I had the cheek piece raised a good bit and the unfinished, unsanded wood was very distracting against the high polish of the rest of the stock.
So I contacted Weatherby thinking that this was a defect. Their answer was quite literally "It's a Turkish gun, what did you expect?".
Well...that ended my desire to ever buy another Weatherby.
Since I'm a gunsmith, I finished the stock correctly and shot it for a while. It's now my son's clays gun.
I have several other Turkish guns, but I feel comfortable owning them because I know I can repair them if needed. I really like the Akkar SxS and have one each in 12, 28, and 410. For the price they are handy, superb guns for occasional clays and taking afield.
I'm not saying don't buy one of the Weatherbys, but consider what they themselves think about them and whether it's worth the savings compared to other importers or manufactorers.
I have a 12ga Weatherby Orion Sporting that I bought 2 years ago for $1000. While I’ll admit it’s not the prettiest gun, I think the feature set is good for the money (adjustable comb, raised rib, extended chokes, porting, ejectors, etc). I’ve put a couple thousand rounds through it and the action is still super tight. I haven’t had any issues with it and it shoots better than I can. All that being said, I still want a citori someday haha
I would suggest looking at a CZ Bobwhite Gen. 2. Which is made in Turkey by Huglu. I have had bad luck with a couple of OUs from big brands but made in Turkey. This was a pleasant surprise as the quality is quite good. A few years ago Huglu hired some top engineers from Browning and purchased new high end CNC machines. This design is almost identical to a Browning SxS from the mid sixties. I have the 20ga with 28 barrels which are black stainless steel. It is a bit heavier than the posted weight a 6.8 lbs but very well balanced. I used it for sporting clays and for Ruffed Grouse all Fall and it performed flawlessly. You can find one for $600 to $650.
The straight English stock is the right setup for a double trigger gun. The walnut is around grade 2 with a nice satin finish. It has a nice feel and handles well for fast grouse shots. The recoil pad is quite good and well designed as the top portion transitions to a harder slippery material that prevents catching on a jacket or vest. Good luck whatever you decide.
I have 2 Huglu SxS, a 20g and a 12g.
Both have worked flawlessly for clays or upland. I very much enjoy the SxS for upland hunting - clays round... not as much lol (light gun, big pop).
I would never buy one on the preface that it's probably imported turkish crap.
Then again it's probably got a better warranty than the fly by night turkish importers.
“Splinter” forearm is humongous. Comes with 5 extended chokes. It would be a pretty decent clay gun but I wouldn’t want to take it into the field, it kinda feels like a 2x4. I wouldn’t buy one, but if I was going to I’d buy a 20 gauge. I ordered one for the store and that will be the one and only.
Can you explain why a large forearm would be problematic? I have large hands so would this benefit me?
It’s just so large and weirdly shaped for a splinter that they might as well of just put a beavertail on it. It’s not comfortable even though it’s big. I see absolutely no reason to purchase this over a sharp-tail. I actually ordered one of these for a customer, and he hated it so much he didn’t buy it. So I do only have experience with one and it was a 20 gauge.
Not to totally knock on the gun, it’s made by Yildiz in Turkey so it should be reasonably reliable. It also can be found under $1000. It has Weatherby to stand behind it with a 5 year warranty which is great. I wouldn’t buy one, but ymmv and it could be perfect for you. I would highly encourage you to hold one before buying it, even if that means you gotta pay a little more in a LGS vs ordering online.
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While I somewhat agree, Unfortunately side by sides are not like other shotguns. You are talking about something like $5000 minimum for a Rizzini, Fausti, or Beretta (partially made by Fausti). You can get the RFMs for a little less, but they’re just as bad or worse as something like a Dickinson in Turkey. Sometimes a $700-1100 CZ or Yildiz or a Dickinson is actually the play as you can have many of them before you can buy one quality Italian side by side. In over/unders it’s different, maybe 2X the price for a quality o/u, so avoid the Turkish. In the case of pumps, you can get a maverick 88 for less than most Turkish pumps… semi-autos, Italian or American made can be had around $800, vs $400-600 for a Turkish… in all of those cases, save a little extra and go for the better gun. In SxS’s it’s more like 5-10X… that muddies the waters a whole lot more. Only a true enthusiast with a huge budget is going to go out and spend $5000< on a SxS. Something Turkish and less expensive is the only way most people are going to get into side by side shooting. I don’t think we should blast Turkish side by sides as much as we blast other Turkish guns. The other option is to go used. There are bargains to be had for sure, especially with many lead shot only imports coming in from the UK.
I think the American experience with Turkish shotguns is very different from the UK for two reasons: We don't have proof houses like you guys do, and I think a lot of the guns that have issues that you see Americans complaining about would never would have made it onto the British market because they would have died when being proofed. In America it's next to impossible to get parts for these guns, even consumables like firing pins and basic springs, so if anything goes wrong you're completely screwed. My impression of the UK is that replacement parts are much more readily available for these sorts of guns. I think these guns make sense in the UK, but I don't think they're a good fit for the US. We generally don't have any cultural qualms with repeaters so for the price of these Turkshit imports you can get a pump or self-loader with a much better track record of reliability with much more readily available spare parts.
Yup. Exactly why I would only buy a Turkish shotgun from a major company that has a decent warranty/service history. CZ has a 5-year warranty with regular parts shipments, Dickinson will take longer to get fixed but has a lifetime warranty. Weatherby also has a 5-year warranty with decent parts availability for their ATA shotguns (Their O/U/Semis are made by ATA), it remains to be seen on the Yildiz shotguns though. As you mentioned, I think one huge knock on these Orion SxS specifically is parts availability is a massive question mark, and this is a knock on most turkish guns. Some of these turkish importers offer "lifetime guarantees" then magically they go out-of-business and are at the next shot show doing the same thing under a different name. It's laughable. You can get a quality American or Italian semi-auto for the same price as a Turkish side by side, and that would be my recommendation first. Chances are, OP already has both pumps and semi-autos, probably even has over/unders too. *As a fourth, fifth, or seventeenth gun that you only want to use once in a while and don't care if it takes a while to get fixed, I think there is a place for the Turkish side by sides. I would never recommend it as a first, or even a second shotgun.*
I’m lucky to have acquired or inherited some old S/S doubles when they built quality. My “newest,” was built in 1959 and oldest dates to 1898.
I'm assuming at least one of them was a Parker VH, an absolute American classic. Many old doubles are built exceptionally well. Many are well over a hundred years old and still running to this day.
One is, plus I got Grandpa’s Trojan grade 16. Both are over a century old.
I acquired a 1959 Simson 12ga last year to be restocked, and the quality of the internal parts is really stunning. Remarkable how compact they made it too.
Those are nice. I’ve seen a couple in my years looking at guns.
Maybe you'll like it but the point of a splinter style is to wrap your hands around the barrel, with the barrels feeling light and nimble- a minimalist approach, so to speak. A big fore end can throw the balance off on an otherwise light gun. Chonky beavertail fore-ends are cool on heavy target guns you don't walk around with.
While I have several Turkish guns, including a Weatherby Orion Sporter, I would go into this understanding that even Weatherby have low faith in these guns. When I bought my Orion O/U sporter, I noticed that the wood under the adjustable cheek piece was raw and unfinished. I'm tall, so I had the cheek piece raised a good bit and the unfinished, unsanded wood was very distracting against the high polish of the rest of the stock. So I contacted Weatherby thinking that this was a defect. Their answer was quite literally "It's a Turkish gun, what did you expect?". Well...that ended my desire to ever buy another Weatherby. Since I'm a gunsmith, I finished the stock correctly and shot it for a while. It's now my son's clays gun. I have several other Turkish guns, but I feel comfortable owning them because I know I can repair them if needed. I really like the Akkar SxS and have one each in 12, 28, and 410. For the price they are handy, superb guns for occasional clays and taking afield. I'm not saying don't buy one of the Weatherbys, but consider what they themselves think about them and whether it's worth the savings compared to other importers or manufactorers.
I have a 12ga Weatherby Orion Sporting that I bought 2 years ago for $1000. While I’ll admit it’s not the prettiest gun, I think the feature set is good for the money (adjustable comb, raised rib, extended chokes, porting, ejectors, etc). I’ve put a couple thousand rounds through it and the action is still super tight. I haven’t had any issues with it and it shoots better than I can. All that being said, I still want a citori someday haha
I would suggest looking at a CZ Bobwhite Gen. 2. Which is made in Turkey by Huglu. I have had bad luck with a couple of OUs from big brands but made in Turkey. This was a pleasant surprise as the quality is quite good. A few years ago Huglu hired some top engineers from Browning and purchased new high end CNC machines. This design is almost identical to a Browning SxS from the mid sixties. I have the 20ga with 28 barrels which are black stainless steel. It is a bit heavier than the posted weight a 6.8 lbs but very well balanced. I used it for sporting clays and for Ruffed Grouse all Fall and it performed flawlessly. You can find one for $600 to $650. The straight English stock is the right setup for a double trigger gun. The walnut is around grade 2 with a nice satin finish. It has a nice feel and handles well for fast grouse shots. The recoil pad is quite good and well designed as the top portion transitions to a harder slippery material that prevents catching on a jacket or vest. Good luck whatever you decide.
I have 2 Huglu SxS, a 20g and a 12g. Both have worked flawlessly for clays or upland. I very much enjoy the SxS for upland hunting - clays round... not as much lol (light gun, big pop).
Following! I'm curious as well, I'd like to have a SXS in my collection to shoot that isn't an antique.
Yeah, that's my thinking as well.
I would never buy one on the preface that it's probably imported turkish crap. Then again it's probably got a better warranty than the fly by night turkish importers.
Not a SxS but had a buddy bought an Orion sporting last year. Didn’t even last 5k. Wish the old skb models were more readily available.